The British Attempt to Construct a Socialist Commonwealth, 1945-1951

[@SSCFPA]

To understand what the Attlee government did you have to understand what the British experience was during and after WW2. Just after the war, an American actor visited the UK. He liked the people but saw in all the rationing and austerity he says, the perils of socialism. What he does not seem to have grasped is what he saw was not socialism, when he visited the Attlee government had barely started it's reforms, but the results of 6 years of a total war economy, a worn out infrastructure and all the bomb damage. This actor had been in uniform during the war but he made training films in California. So perhaps not surprising that he did not quite get what he saw, since by size and separation from it's enemies on both sides by 1000's of miles of ocean, far less rationing and no bomb damage, CA and the USA had a different experience of WW2 entirely. The actor's name was Ronald Reagan.

[@Speegs23]

SSCFPA you realize the NHS was built from American Marshall Plan money? Without US generosity from their rich capitalist pockets the NHS never would've come to be to begin with, in fact the next great British idea was NATO, that way a permanent US military presence could subsidise post war Britain as well. Britain couldn't afford to be socialists and imperialist any longer, so they submitted their security to the Americans after taking American money to rebuild from ash and socialize.

[@Johnnycdrums]

+Murmeltier616 ; Have you ever listened to any of Ronald Reagan's speech's? He was brilliant.

[@Johnnycdrums]

+Speegs23 ; I wonder if we would have gave them the money if we knew what it was for?

[@Johnnycdrums]

+SSCFPA ; Ronald Reagan was one of our top five Presidents of all time.

[@lsobrien]

And Johnnyc is one of our top five idiots of KZbin.

[@user-qm7nw7vd5s]

This guy is a national treasure! Such nuanced historical detail. 👍👍👍👍

[@ณภัทรสุขแสง]

Attlee's government achieved so much in a time of desperate need for our country. If the complacent Tories had won in 1945 it would have been a very different country and people would have suffered much more. Some very courageous decisions were made by some brave people and we should be forever in their debt. Just imagine the wet nellies of today having to make such decisions.

[@cretansuperbos2121]

They made "courageous" socialist decisions with American money, abandoned their colonies to chaos and civil war, and strapped themselves to a moribund economic system that was rapidly outpaced by a far more devastated Germany and even top-heavy France.

[@redwater4778]

Totally . The UK had lost it's empire

[@FATHOLLYWOODB123]

@Gayle Elizabeth The Germans after WW2 focused on exporting goods to replenish there economy, the British, French, Russians and Italians, focused on importing goods to replenish there economy, that is why Germany is the biggest European economy today. And for reference "full throttle" socialism was achieved by the Soviet Union, being the worlds second largest economy. A fact that rightist usually scorn. Moral is, the most successful countries today, happiest, healthiest, wealthiest, most educated, are all a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism, an example of a 100% capitalist country, Haiti, an example of a 100% socialist state, North Korea, where do they stand??

[@JeezVince]

"people would have suffered much more" lol what an idiotic remark based on nothing, other European countries who were more damaged physically and economically from WW2 got out of it way faster than the UK. Labour calcified British society for the next 50 years and paved the way for the politic of disastrous state interventions that has plagued the country ever since, a myriad of forever "miracle solutions" in front of every kind of obstacle put there by the same politician...

[@MrBillcale]

The Nordic model refers to the economic and social models of the Nordic countries (Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Finland). This particular adaptation of the mixed economy is characterised by "universalist" welfare states (relative to other developed countries), which are aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy, ensuring the universal provision of basic human rights and stabilising the economy.

[@black__bread]

Loving the ignorance in the comments e/g/ the failure to appreciate 1945-51 was to a large extent a response to the failings of the 1920s and 30s, failing to recognise British industry was worn out by the war, overestimating the significance of US money, simplistic comparisons with German economic growth in the 1950s, the notion of abandoning colonies, etc., all just excuses to say Socialism bad

[@TheCrescentFusilier0961]

Patriotic Socialism

[@themise1416]

Curious that Adenauer would refer to Churchill as the old man. According to Wikipedia, Churchill was born 1874 and Adenauer 1876.

[@nautilusshell4969]

It was an aide to Adenauer, not Adenauer himself.

[@MrBillcale]

tony blair stated ambiguously that he still had socialist values but no longer advocated socialism.. chris hitchens says he no longer considers himself a socialist but still considers himself a marxist..many people who were socialists(i was) have moved to the center and might be more accurately described as social liberals or radical centrists.. the days of state industry and super high taxes(80-90 %) are over

[@leemorgan8478]

They did Britain was Socialist & we were happier in them days comrades .

[@TheJosephPrice]

There is a variety of different forms of Socialism. France has done a decent job so far, I think The Nordic States are a great example of how Social Democracy truly is the right balance.

[@redplanet667]

i think a lot of British people who saw their financial stock decrease in value so much and their standard of living fall so sharply during the 2nd world war blamed the wrong enemy, they felt that capitalism had betrayed them when in reality they were simply casualties of war, what won't have helped is when they started to realise that their nation was no longer a superpower and that only 2 superpowers remained, one was the capitalist nation the USA who took our Carribean bases from us, took our gold from us, strategically devalued our currency and charged us with interest for every bit of help they gave us and the other remaining superpower was the Soviet union who never did us any harm and never took a penny from us and inflicted the greatest damage on our main enemies the NAZIs, you can see why (decades before the internet and instant world communication) the average Brit on the street would've been a little curious about socialism

[@zeddeka]

You have missed a large part of the issue. The British public had gone through hell in the 1930s with the depression, and laissez faire capitalism was seen to have done nothing to solve the high levels of poverty and deprivation. The war fostered a sense of collectivism and an acceptance of government intervention, so the British public were no longer scared of it. They saw no reason why the government shouldn't intervene to address the appalling poverty they'd gone through in the 1930s.

[@MrBillcale]

The Nordic model is distinguished from other welfare states with similar goals by its emphasis on maximising labour force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, the large magnitude of wealth redistribution, and liberal use of expansionary fiscal policy

[@MrBillcale]

i would say i am consistent because i am condemning old labour policy .. new labour was not really socialist but socialish third way mix of the practical aspects of a market economy with equally pragmatic policies preserving the positive aspects of a welfare state..even blair and new labour agreed the old atlee welfare state created dependency..new labour did not abandon the working class and poor as tories would.. but created welfare to work to help people regain control of their lives, is that

[@MrLovethelife]

we'll only achieve the aims and goals of the LRC with strength and solidarity! join us! :)

[@ephelduath610]

was there a video on the second world war? We've seen road to was and this one, but not actually the war

[@TheJosephPrice]

It's a bit of a one sided argument. Not everyone that benefits from Social Programs are lazy and don't want to work. In fact, most people that are poor now are poor because all the manufacturing jobs were sent to China, Brazil, India, and other nations. All that is left is low-wage paying jobs. It's even worse here in The States where we don't have Single-Payer Healthcare or Education(Like Scotland,Wales, and Northern Ireland).

[@MrBillcale]

are all based on market friendly economies in fact for years denmark was an outstanding place to open a business despite is confiscatory tax levels..i'm a bit of a hypocrite the only time in my life i made lots of money i voted republican because i hated how much i was taxed in california now that i am old and usless i am more than happy to suck off the government tit, but i realize the only way to insure a genrous welfare state is to create a healthy economy so hard working people have a chance

[@blackmichael75]

What empirical data? How does it go against reason and common sense?

[@MrBillcale]

uk - welfare - Future State of Welfare with John Humphrys INTRO

[@Hermathene]

why couldn't people be like a bank of themselves? (besides that which is already in society; public/private/civic?) - civility, by which: ability to provide/produce for the requirements of month to month life and still be able to gain, by work, to produce separate money to "enrich" themselves; i'm not that versed in economy, but it doesn't sound that impossible; the economy based on gold then not really? well, food? water? air? common/general wellbeing? just an idea, would love it debated; taxes to that is are an interesting example (in theory, i guess) to how money is gathered by the state (social contract; means of organisation), rather that by which the state gathers "means"; and yet i think there is a principle that stands for gathering it in a undetermined whole by which representations attribute objective...

[@MrBillcale]

1.18 - Privatization in Britain

[@MrBillcale]

some level the important thing is the balance

[@MrBillcale]

wow such an intellectual response

[@MrBillcale]

The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies. the nordic model has morphed into a fairly standard third way balance..i consider myself third way whether that is socialism is debatable..

[@whatamalike]

Such a good idea the tories didn't touch it for years!

[@RonJohn63]

"Such a good idea the ..." Soviets tried government planning of the economy for 70 years and it was a *complete* *disaster*.

[@Speegs23]

Britain was a shell shocked crater of rubble at the conclusion of WW2, and the socialists took advantage of a vulnerable people too weary to resist, too poor to stand alone, and did it with American generosity through the Marshall Plan as subsidy to create what it couldn't have otherwise. Then it made itself completely dependent upon the US for national defence as a never ending subsidy to British socialism, at the price of self sovereignty.

[@OllytheOl]

RonJohn63 Yes, but not in Britain was it? It was a spectacular success. Our parents were far better off than we are today.

[@OllytheOl]

Speegs23 Hmm, you mean they rebuilt Britain and turned it into a world wide cultural force by the 60s. Not so shabby. Britain in the 60s was far greater than Britain today, thanks to British socialism.

[@Speegs23]

1 in 3 Britons lived in government housing by 1975, the dead went unburied in the winter of discontent and the bubonic plague was a real health fear as trash piled two stories high in London, try again.

[@Johnnycdrums]

Bevan was bewildered and stated, "The solidarity of the working classes had been eroded by affluence and "individualism". I guess there is no place for individualism in Bevan's post war Socialistic dream.

[@bripat22]

Johnnyc drums I think he meant private greed not just individualism in general

[@NikosKoutsilieris]

When labor was labor

[@MrBillcale]

my sister lives in london the british welfare system has created millions of people totally dependent on the state and incapable of fending for themselves, i'm not saying we should abolish welfare.. i'm not saying that..what i am saying is if you want to know how NOT to solve a social problem study british socialism.. the scandanavians did a much better job

[@SuttieTheFan]

I think you've missed the most important factor here. In the election the British Communist Party returned 2 MPs. With another starving 20s what could that have lead too!

[@black__bread]

Nothing.

[@hanson666999]

As a child who grew up in a community of people immersed in absolute state Socialism it really saddens me how fucked up and un-independent the outcome of adulthood tends to be for us...I would never endorse the idea that the sick and disabled have no right relying on the state for treatment but Socialism WAS a cure to British Imperialism among the terribly distraught people an Imperial system fostered domestically. In a world of unlimited abundance it makes sense but otherwise it does not.

[@TheJosephPrice]

Looking over your profile, France is the one that just elected a Socialist President. Seems your country overwhelmingly agrees some level of Socialism is preferable.

[@MrBillcale]

not that theres anything wrong with that

[@MrBillcale]

where are they today? the dust bin of history

[@MrBillcale]

now i'm confused i thought you were a socialist?

[@MrBillcale]

consult the Bayeux Tapestry by 1066 after 200 years the normans had intermarried and considered themselves french they did NOT identify themselves as danes anymore, they had it printed on the Bayeux Tapestry .. for all to see"we are the french" they considered themselves french and they stated so on the Bayeux Tapestry, the english find this too humiliating to accept , my ancestors were franks and Alemanni so i am a mix of celt and german france is named for a german tribe that is why it was

[@MrBillcale]

to make their greedy little arses as you say rich, i wil gladly accept a few crumbs form their table.. it isnt fair to take it all form the porductive people if a person works hard the really should be allowed to keep the lions share.. thats the american way.. people do ahve resposibilities to the less fortunete widows orphins cripples but you cant expect saints they want to keep as much a they can and you cant blame them its human nature

[@MrBillcale]

we dont have to be we all own guns and use them often

[@MrBillcale]

socialism bankrupt Britian.. in 1979 britian was one of the poorest nations in western europe in 1945 france was way behind the uk in most economic and quality of life issues by 1979 france had a higher standard of living a higher life expectancy, usin degaulles dirigsme state directed capitalism i think the only experiment with socialism that ever bore fruit is scandanavia like denmark norway and sweden the nordic model but they are very moderate and third way also their huge welfare states

[@MrBillcale]

shit i'd rather have a nanny state than that gulag you just described..

[@MrBillcale]

how about you go on a berkely hunt? bloody berk

[@leemorgan8478]

Are you educated at a English public school or are you just another number who is totally insane in his drive to love all things Tory even though he grew up in a working or middle class existence though didn't make the cut either way .

[@leemorgan8478]

Told by a lot of toffs .

[@MrBillcale]

USA = ROME

[@MrBillcale]

socialism bankrupt britain..ending with the winter of discontent in 1979.. i'm not a conservative so i think the lib dems or new labour has it right you can regulate the dynamo of capitalism to provide an adequate welfare state to make a society a civilization

[@hanson666999]

And by that token I will NEVER endorse imperialism or even the right or left division...it just saddens me how socialism has become the lesser of two evils between state socialism and overt imperialism....to the domestic populations that are left clambering in the aftermath of those historic decisions the lesser of two evils is still evil, and I proclaim that as a working class child of Socialism...

[@MrBillcale]

some people have enough pride to take care of their own, your culture is dieing because you lost that , you want the state to be your parents

[@Nina5144]

There’s footage somewhere of a Labour speaker in 1945, stating, with an awful smirk on his face, we will raise taxes for the rich......they can afford it. Frightening

[@m.m.1301]

Good, they should tax them 100%

[@POLMAZURKA]

too much talk by one person....should be conferences, films,...

[@MrBillcale]

maybe now but at least in france they let you own a gun..you govt treats you like a prisoner

[@zeddeka]

You're a nut job, aren't you?

[@jolevy4569]

What these lectures show is the supreme folly of having declared war on Germany in 1939.

[@MrBillcale]

she works about 80 hours a week how long is your work wwek? the problem is with you brits, its simple your lazy you want it all for free, and there just arent enough industrious types left to support you! some of you must go back to work, sorry