The Buddha's Creation Story: Myth as History and Inspiration

[@DougsDharma]

🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂 📙 You can find my new book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook

[@holybutterfly8495]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIHLl6KdormUrdE

[@holybutterfly8495]

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[@holybutterfly8495]

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[@TheSlickMachine]

Hearing Buddhists called "shavelings" is sure to be the highlight of my day. Thanks very much for your work, Doug.

[@DougsDharma]

😄😄 Yes I think that's Bhikkhu Bodhi's choice of word, it is funny.

[@xiaomaozen]

I'm very split when it comes to myths. On the one hand they can of course be inspiring and/or make a good point and/or elucidate something (I myself for example like to interpret myths psychologically). But on the other hand they can be (mis-)used to justify simply anything, even the cruelest and most destructive ways of thinking and behaviour... 😊🙏🏻

[@DougsDharma]

Indeed they can. But on the other hand, folks even try to use rational arguments to the same ends. It's hard to know how best to proceed, except to unequivocally recommend kindness and compassion.

[@jamesgordley5000]

It's probably very hard to create a cruel or destructive way of thinking and behaving, out of that story about the first beings eating nectar and becoming petty/greedy. At least, I can't think of any way to abuse such a story for the worse.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

@@jamesgordley5000 Not just that, or a even few others. In general. Myths are the foundation of religion.

[@LCD72]

@@gstrathmore194 I do get where you are coming from. On the other hand, we might learn something about history that is otherwise lost to us if we at least entertain the possibility that a particular story/myth may be based on a grain of literal, historical truth - an unsophisticated and possibly embellished account of real history. Did the ancient people from whom the story originate understand it as myth, or is that a somewhat pejorative label with which we in the 21st Century loftily dismiss what might be troublesome for our modern belief in our superior knowledge? For example, the story of the Great Flood - extant in cultures right around the world, who had no contact with each other. Was there an actual physical event that led to this widespread story, or can we call it a myth and safely assume it only has psychological significance? Another example that I find stimulating is the myth of dragons - once again stories about dragons are found in ancient cultures right around the world, North South, East and West, widely separated in space and time. Could it be that these stories represent a folk memory of something real that no longer exists? Or can the myth of dragons be independently generated amongst different peoples by our common human psychology time and again across great swathes of history? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there actually was a Great (world-wide) Flood, or that there were real live dragons flying around once upon a time: how would I know? One day evidence may come to light that enables us to reinterpret these myths in a new light - the previously overlooked scoured landscapes that may be evidence of massive floods in North America and in the Sahara at the end of the last ice age, Puff the Magic Dragon lands on the White House lawn.....

[@tanned06]

Thanks for the video, Dough. Coming from molecular medicine's background I have been cautious of how our modern 'scientific conditioning and conceit" has led us. To think "Science" is much more reliable than "religious myths or legends" in giving us a truer story of where we, all species, and even the world come from is not being able to see how a collective tale of speculative projection based on questionable yet unverifiable premise/assumptions and fragmentary evidence trying to convince the world as fact.

[@DougsDharma]

Well sure, they're all stories and views. One key difference is that the stories and views from the sciences give us significant predictive and practical wisdom that we do not have from myths alone. This is because the sciences are based upon, at least ideally, rigorous investigation and empirical testing. That said, myths can provide important inspiration for us which if used skillfully and ethically can be of great benefit too.

[@tanned06]

@@DougsDharma Thanks for making your point fair and just, Dough. Once inside the forefront science business myself I have quite a different take. There are deep waters and perpetuated myths oblivious to most outsiders. This has been undertaken through "exaggerated and doctored evidence" knowingly and unknowingly within the business. There is a huge monster always standing the way guarded by certain gatekeepers and their great followings of the field. In the field of archaeological science working on ancient DNA fingerprinting in particular, for any critical student who is at it, they will be able to understand how scientific myths are produced upon sketchy and poor experimental data transformed and massaged through "questionable" but yet can never be questioned algorithms to come up with some 'mainstay' findings for the sake of getting their results published at "good" journals. For students and new academics in the field this is about their research outputs and tenure job.

[@MundaSquire]

Doug, off topic but thought of you on Sunday. Pariyatti had a Zoom call with Bhikkhu Anãlayo on vedanna in meditation practice and it's roots in Early Buddhism, both in the Agammas and Pali texts. Very informative. If they make it available online, I'll send it to you. As beimg one myself who like the good Bhikkhu went on a Goenka retreat, I think you'd find it interesting.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks very much, Munda. Yes I saw that and was thinking of attending but I was busy at the time.

[@daliborPavlik]

Doug, I think there is another interesting point in this sutta: the gradual consumption of substances that make beings more gross. This applies also to our 21 century. And it is not just consumption of alcohol. The consumption of fizzy drinks, obesity are all part of a process during which beings become gradually more gross. I also found chart of calorie intake in the UK. It keeps growing since 17th century.

[@soupappreciator8977]

Hi Doug. Interesting video. Would your conclusions about these creation myths be similar regarding Buddha's creation? E.g. Suttas about him walking and speaking after birth.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, that's right. See my earlier video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p560iZJ6p62aY7M

[@senerzen]

Primordial waters appear in many myths, from Sumerians to Vedas. The opening verse in Genesis starts with waters. It should be obvious even to a primitive man that the story is meant as a poetic allegory and is not literal. Otherwise, the question arises: Where did this material water come from? Wasn't this supposed to be the creation story of the material world? I make the claim that that primordial water is perfect description of what we know today based on science. It is a reference to what physicists today refer to as the quantum soup. Ancients relied on memory to transmit information from generation to generation. The best way to keep things in memory is to make a story. How would you make a story about probability waves? Why not imagine it as a SEA of probabilities? Eating the nectar corresponds to collapsing the wave function and bringing matter into existence out of that quantum soup = primordial waters = probability waves. How did they know? Dreams and visions...

[@wint7031]

Buddha states the facts in the Agganna Sutta. It is not opposite of the Buddhism. However, this sutta look difficult to understand for us because it is illogical. The difficulty is coming fron our doubt, not from the suttra. According to Buddha, there are 4 subjects which are difficult to understand for us because we contemplate those, within limits. 1). Buddha 2). Buddha super power 3). Universe including the Earth 4). Re-births process This sutta is about the universe including at the beginning process of the Earth. Also, it is about Opapatika patisandi (=re birth). Moreover, it is about Buddha super power and wisdom. All in all, I like this suta because it is important for Buddhism.

[@gasun1274]

that's ridiculous. the quantum soup is a metaphor, there was and is no actual soup, and how did you infer that measuring a particle corresponds to eating an unknown delicious substance???

[@wibuhakase3522]

For other viewers' information that those god-like beings descended from 2nd jhanic-realm of Abhassara. It's one of 16 realms of Rupa Brahma Loka in buddhist cosmology. Thank you for this video! 😁

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome, Ucup!

[@freetibet1000]

That implies they have not yet transcended the bondage of samsara and are therefore subject to the uncontrollable powers of karma, unresolved habitual mental tendencies and therefor not yet awakened. They are going through the same uncontrollable stages and transitions within the wheel of life as everybody else. These heavens are nothing to strive for since they are temporary and result in great suffering when they fall down into lower realms of existence again.

[@poppywindstockings4930]

Thanks again. Off topic a bit but what is the many armed Statue in the background?

[@DougsDharma]

Sure! It's a statue of Mahāpratisarā.

[@oneLostInSpaceAndTime]

Thank you for sharing Buddha's understanding on creation. I believe that a much detailed discussion on this subject could have been very interesting as it seems a completely different take from the origin stories of other religions. Anyway to comment on this video, when we say a particular saying is not historically accurate, it's even important to discuss on what basis should we say so which is unfortunately not present in this discussion.

[@Giantcrabz]

One thing the post-modernists got sort of right is that even our accounts of "objective history" or science are themselves shaped by cultural factors and perspectives in subtle ways. Like if you read a history of Rome from 100 years ago, it will sound very different than a newer one and focus on different elements in its narrative

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, absolutely. To an extent we create history around ourselves, our likes and dislikes.

[@freetibet1000]

Yes, we are always in the present moment of now. Even when we study history or just remember something. Due to the interdependent nature of all phenomena, including our own habitual thinking, everything constantly appear in new and unique ways without being true in any ultimate sense. An account of an event from the past cannot convey, or recreate, the exact same event yet again. Time have past and innumerable events have happened since the time of the event that will interfere or mix with memory of the actual event. On top of that we have the basic limitations of words and communication that, at best, can only provide a framework of an account of the actual event described.

[@stormyphillips]

Thank you for another great video. I think your last statement about the value in myth was well said.

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure, Stormy. Glad you found it useful!

[@brendondonoho270]

Really fantastic video! Thanks for your hard work!

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure!

[@paradoxsolverparadoxsolver748]

The Agganna Sutta is a Buddhist scripture found in the Pali Canon, which is the primary scripture of Theravada Buddhism. It presents a cosmological account of the origin and evolution of the universe, as well as the cycles of human civilization. However, it is important to note that the Agganna Sutta is primarily regarded as a religious and mythological text rather than a scientific account. Scientific evidence refers to empirical observations, experiments, and data that are subject to rigorous testing, peer review, and verification within the scientific community. The Agganna Sutta does not provide scientific evidence in this sense, as it is not based on empirical observations or subject to scientific scrutiny. The cosmological and mythological accounts presented in the Agganna Sutta are allegorical and symbolic in nature, conveying spiritual and philosophical teachings rather than scientific explanations. They are meant to provide a narrative framework for understanding the nature of existence, the cycles of life and death, and the moral and ethical lessons taught in Buddhism. It is worth noting that Buddhism, like many other religious and philosophical traditions, offers perspectives on topics that intersect with scientific inquiry, such as consciousness, human suffering, and the nature of reality. However, these perspectives are not presented as scientific theories or competing with scientific explanations. In summary, the Agganna Sutta is a religious and mythological text that conveys Buddhist teachings and cosmological narratives. It does not provide scientific evidence or align with the empirical, evidence-based methodology of scientific inquiry. The role of religious texts is distinct from scientific investigation and understanding.

[@xXKillaBGXx]

Can you explain the DASARATHA-JĀTAKA? It states that The Buddha was Rama in a past life. Rama being the main deity in the Indian epic "Ramayana". Rama is also an incarnation of Vishnu.

[@freetibet1000]

Interesting question! Maybe you can develop an answer through getting deeper into the true nature of your own on-line name “Maitreya Buddha”? For instance, how is it that in some scriptures Maitreya is described as a Bodhisattva while in other texts he is referred to as a Buddha? And in some texts he is supposed to be the next Buddha to appear in our world, going through a similar process of transformation in a human body that our present time Buddha Shakyamuni did. I think these seemingly contradictory descriptions are there for us to work with and through that come to undermine our strong tendencies towards linear thinking. A deeper look into our “solid” framework of time can unlock a much more fluid sense of reality that’s not at all linear. You may discover your own “Maitreya nature” that way?

[@FromPlanetZX]

To be heard by the people, Gautama incorporate this famous Rama folklore at that time. That's it. And the Rama's journey in Hindu mythology and that of dasrath jattaka is quite different. Us hindus believe that early buddhist distorted the real story to be seen different and belittle Brahmins.

[@Hunbatz95]

@@freetibet1000 "I think these seemingly contradictory descriptions are there for us to work with and through that come to undermine our strong tendencies towards linear thinking." No, why is it that people keep coming with convoluted justifications anytime Buddhism is being questioned? These contradictions are there because the texts were written by different people, in different places at different times.

[@Hunbatz95]

​@@FromPlanetZX Exactly! Buddhist texts are very proselitistic in their tone (gods as inferior to the buddha, different grades of Samadhi as being still deluded planes within samsara, the buddha or his monks winning debates against caricatures of jaina, ajivikas and sramanas). It's no surprise it became a missionary religion that excerts a passive manipulation of folkloric beliefs wherever it went.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

I don't want to be a pain in the neck, but i don't know if faiths are so different . The Pure land tradition is a good example of a believe system based on faith .Some Tibetan Buddhist sects are convinced certain deeds , like painting a symbol or doing a rituals literary helps thousands sentient beings being released from Samsara .This is a lot like devout Roman Catholics believing 'the hail Mary 'prayer will release souls from purgatory. Now i'm not claiming to know if this is just magical thinking or reality . I'm just establishing that Buddhism was, and mostly still is a religion with a faith. Even in the more sober traditions, I can only imagine the faith one must have in the concept of Nirvana, to dedicate one's life as a monk.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I've done a couple of videos on faith in Buddhism (e.g.: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqbLqqh-l5JsjpY ), I think it's a bit different at least in the early tradition than what we find for example in Christianity where faith is the only route to salvation.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

@@DougsDharma Well isn't Nirvana not the only route of salvation as well ? The salvation from Samsara.? But I don't want to start some long discussion. I will watch the other video. Thanks.

@@spiritualanarchist8162 Nirvana is not the route. It's similar to "silence" is not the route of salvation from noise.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

@ It's not the route, it's the destiny. It's the end of Dhuka , the escape form Samsara to enter Nirvana (or pass that by and become a Bodhisattva ). My point is just that Buddhism is build around these concepts .And as such could be seen as 'an articles of faith ' .

[@phoenixj1299]

Not really. Spirituality don't require belief system. Religion is based on belief system.

[@sacrificejuni6139]

The Agganna Sutta is a Buddhist text found in the Digha Nikaya, one of the early Buddhist scriptures known as the Pali Canon. It presents a cosmological and mythological account of the origin of the universe, the evolution of humans, and the social order. It's important to note that the Agganna Sutta is a religious text and is primarily regarded as a mythological or allegorical narrative within the context of Buddhism. It is not considered a scientific or historical account. Scientific evidence is based on empirical observation, experimentation, and the scientific method. The Agganna Sutta does not align with scientific explanations of the origin of the universe, the evolution of species, or the development of human societies. Scientific theories, such as the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution, are supported by extensive evidence from various scientific disciplines, including cosmology, astronomy, geology, biology, and genetics. These theories are continually tested, refined, and expanded upon based on new evidence and research. While religious texts can offer valuable insights into cultural, ethical, and spiritual aspects, they are not intended to provide scientific explanations or evidence. The Agganna Sutta, like other religious texts, should be understood in its intended religious and philosophical context rather than as a scientific account.

[@TheLeftWentInsane]

This is how most people teach children and it's a good way to teach, children remember this way. Jesus also taught in parables. This actually was what has been bothering me as a brand new meditator I wanted this clarification I just can't believe unscientific literal teachings. Thank you so much for this... Not a mistake I found you and this by " accident " but I've been meditating and haven't been able to commit but now I feel I can try this way... Thank you again very much...

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome! Happy to help.

[@JohnLeaf]

Doug I invest 300us on criptocurrencies, an investment because criptocurrencies have a great tendency of increasing value, my question is to this is greed? People put their money in the bank and do something to their money to make them increase isn't this the same thing? I had a guilty feeling and I decided to sell all my criptos and get my money back and do my simple work and earn money working like a normal people but my mom said it was an investment and I should not worry, what do you think is it wrong? I feel my mind more occupied and checking everyday the value of the criptos I ve invested and this kind me annoys a little bit i decided to no check their value anymore and wait ten years to do it

[@DougsDharma]

Well to an extent any job done for money involves greed, right? This is why the Buddha recommended his monastics not to handle money at all. That said, there could be no monastics without people with wealth who are willing to donate. So it's a complicated process. I don't think that speculating on cryptocurrencies is necessarily any more greedy than any other form of work, though it is more chancey and hence more towards the gambling end of things. The Buddha might say there were as a result greater dangers involved in it, the dangers of losing all one's money. 😄

[@timothycorrey2154]

Thank you for for talks... appreciated

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure, Timothy. 🙏

[@jasonc8910]

Thank you.

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@brianreeves]

This video just clarified decades of personal confusion about religious origin myths. I really can't thank you enough, Doug.

[@freetibet1000]

Spot on! Doug did something her for you that resembles what the Buddha ( or any true guru ) do when they find a way to describe a subject in a way so that clarity and resolve arise in the mind of the student. Brilliant! From that new level of insight we aim higher and higher until all has been clarified and true awakening occur. The relationship between guru and student is an ongoing process into more and more subtle aspects of reality. The gurus purpose is to provide with both challenges and tools for the student to work with and unlock his/her own innate wisdom, which in a Buddhist context is called Buddha Nature.

[@DougsDharma]

Glad to hear it, Brian. Excellent! 🙏😊

[@brianreeves]

@@DougsDharma Perhaps you could do a video on how we can understand samadhi, so that lay people have an idea of what to aim for in practice. The buddha uses the term often.

[@Amin-555]

Thanks Doug for your videos. Does this creation story respect the 5 precepts in Buddhism (Theravada)?

[@DougsDharma]

How do you mean?

[@someoneelse6618]

Sadhu sadhu Thank you!

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@sudaththaliyanaarachchi7657]

Is this sutra about beginning of the universe or the the earth?

[@DougsDharma]

Well ... yes. That is to say, the early suttas don't make a clear distinction between the earth and the universe. That's a more modern distinction.

[@marcusvanwambeke5676]

is there a good place or book to find buddhist parables?

[@DougsDharma]

I'm not sure, unless you are interested in something like the Jātaka tales; those have been translated several times.

[@metafisicacibernetica]

Ty Doug! (How are you brother?)

[@DougsDharma]

🙏👍

[@metafisicacibernetica]

@@DougsDharma 🍎

[@ramthian]

Thank you 🙏

[@DougsDharma]

You’re welcome 😊

[@默-c1r]

🙏

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@anushakulatunga2341]

Sometimes what we consider as myth might have some truth. Extension theory is possible. The sweet curd like substance on the surface sounds like the primordial soup. The mushroom like plant that buddha talks about may have evolved from fungus and we can believe that fungus played a part in the early origins. The creeoers came next and is scietific too . The humans being of divine origin is easier to believe than Darwins evolution . Life entering the earth from outside, from the universe is more plausible. The rapture part is also possible as even today you find yogis in Himalayas in deep meditation states with very little food. I agree that this story would have given a moral message as you mentioned but we do not have sufficient knowledge to say that it is not historical and mere myth.

[@DougsDharma]

Sure, it's always possible to find resonances and metaphors.

[@babeksaber2702]

Thank you

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@castrorobinson9253]

Hi, feed on rapture. Means they keep rising to higher heavers , or as we say on earth to graduate from one school to the next school

[@udayangadananjaya7914]

There is saptha suryodgamana sutta (seven sun sutta ) and aggagna sutta and few suttas about universe. But here you mentioned aggagna sutta and i think some of things you got understand wrongfully. Cz buddha didn't talk about universe only. There is sakwala ( similar to our solor system ) sahassi loka dhathuwa ( unity thousand solor systems) and dasasahassi loka dhathuwa( ten thousands of sahassi loka dhathu) thrisahassi loka dhathuwa (30 million dasasahassi loka dhathu if im not mistaken ) and buddha teach about therea are uncountble thrisahassi loka dhathus in universe and they can not count or we can never see the end of universe. So in here agganga sutta buddha taking about earth ( that tonic thing and ocean thing) and buddha says this is not the only erath( planet) there was many and they were distroyed and naturally the dust of those planets and stars become a fireball( thats how buddha discribed it) and it become cooldown with time and then there is water like jelly and tonic.

[@udayangadananjaya7914]

And buddha says after earth become a fire ball and it become cool down from a rain and that raun become that tonic jelly ocean

[@DougsDharma]

Perhaps so, it's hard to know for sure.

[@khemanandamanakada9667]

I really worry about your knowledge, mis-interpretation of Buddha's teaching about this tipoic, in your some other videos and like some other western scholars who haven't studied well the Buddhist teaching. Literary, no place for (MYTH) in Theravada Buddhism. The reason is the Buddha never created something to delude or cheat the people though he explained reality as it is that occurred not only in this human planet but also in this multiverse. If he couldn't understand that absolute truth he is'nt recognised as the Buddha. Think about the knowledges of Buddha like Cuti-- upapaata Pubbe - nivaasa- anussati Dibba- cakkhu which exactly help to know the realicsic nature of this universe. Also what do you have understood in Devataa - samyutta Devaputta - samyutta Maara- samyutta Sakka - samyutta Yakka - samyutta Brahma- samyutta which explain divine and brahma realms and also Bala-pandita Devaduuta Kokaalika suttas which explain Buddhist cosmology. Lakkhana samyutta elborates invisible beings for averages people but who are visible for awakened ones like Buddha, Mahamoggallana etc. Indeed, the Buddha's vast knowledge shouldn't be thought simply even it is hard for us to reach. Like a little bit of soil on our finger nail the Buddha explained us a tiny fraction which help to bring immediate happiness and nirvana eventually. Some Suttas shade the light how the Buddha refused to answer some questions and put aside them since they don't concern with temporary or ever;sting happiness. it is evident that when we go trough Buddha's teaching better to understand that the elaboratiin in Agganna sutta isn't a MYTH but the incident that actually happened. By the present moment the scientists have found evidences to solidify that more than twenty times this planet earth has devolved and evolved. The Buddha valued the present human life and eliminate the suffering within this lif e rather than knowing what happened in the past. Only in necessary places he brought up past incidents and some similies, metaphors, etc. If we don't like to accept the evolution and devolution of at least this human planet, we have to reject previous all Buddhas, other awakened ones, Birth stories of Buddha (jataka) and even the crystal clear biography of the present Buddha that happened before twenty five centuries. The Buddha wasn't a lier like other heretical teachers at that time or later though his duty was to reveal the truth relevant at least with human planet as it deficit in Uppaada sutta. therefore, please don't like Arittha in Alagaddupama sutta who mis-interpret the Buddha;s teaching. And also it isnt worthy to catch the tail of the snake since the snake has a chance to bite the father. When somebody explained Buddha's teaching in the wrong way that is the most damage that he can do. Unfortunately there can be seen a considerable competition among Buddhist teachers whether Monastics or Lay people by using KZbin as the most famous media with number of mistakes with the original language and Sutta explanations . It seems before belong there will be a considerable damage for the teaching. My request for you is to study thoroughly the subject well before making the video rather than deforming the Buddha's teaching.

[@dhamma358_]

🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@අරියසච්චානදස්සනං]

In modern Scientific context if we think deeply about the principles like the "Theory of evolution" we could question them too. Suppose, if human being has evolved from monkeys,Then how could still the monkeys living with human beings?so and so forth we can question any opinion acoording to our own individual perceptions. Similarly, About" aggangha sutta" The buddha had given as to how this earth and beings begins. If we approach it in a scientific way it may convinced us them as myths like other ideas.But they actually not myths. According to the "big ban theory" before 14.5 Billions of years the universe has created.That is the most known history the human has ever talked so far. But Infact ,the buddha ,had seen beyond the history with his supernatural Jhanic powers. Before become enlightened. He had two "ghanas"(the abilities which has gained by developing psychic powers with limitless time of practices ). The first is "Pubbe niwasunussati ghnana" which means, He got the ability to see past lives of him as well as other beings.then he found the beginning of the humans and the universe,simultaneously as to see from where and when this samsara begins with,but he understood that the origin cannot find. Suppose if we begins to count from 1st to end the numerical order,could we find the end the order? No it not, because it is infinite.Similarly, that past is the same, we cannot find the edge or the origination. So the Buddha has seen eons of past, that even cannot express in numbers.that past is way beyond the big bang theories origination, By witnessing so mutch of past ,he had preach the Aggangha Sutta. Like the three marks of existence are true,these facts also very profound and are not myths at all.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for your thoughts on the video. 🙏

[@phoenixj1299]

Thats because in few million years , present apes would evolve into human beings. Micro organisms exists now. That doesn't mean we didn't evolve from micro organisms. Same logic.

[@අරියසච්චානදස්සනං]

@@phoenixj1299 then in the past also with The apes human beings also had to be exisisted?isnt it ?

[@phoenixj1299]

@@අරියසච්චානදස්සනං No. Earlier monkeys are current humans. Current monkeys are tomorrow's humans if the earth survives untill then.

[@අරියසච්චානදස්සනං]

@@phoenixj1299 i said as per your logic! Now you are skipping away from what you have said.

[@gra6649]

This myth sounds more like why, than how.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, mostly it's about why we find a caste system.

[@fire.smok3]

Can I ask, did actual Buddhist practitioners spanning thousands of years not literally believe this? Did they take it to be a "spiritual inspiration"? Or is this "spiritual inspiration" view something that arose in modern times, propagated by Western and Western-influenced scholars, in a way that corresponds to this particular era's sensibilities about secularism and scientism? I take almost everything I read or hear about Buddhism with a grain of salt because of how much the West romanticizes this religion and how much its image is a watered-down, softened version of its real form. I read some passages straight from the actual scriptures and I read about some of the real history of how Buddhists lived and I can guarantee it's almost entirely different from the supposedly rosy, egalitarian, "secular" belief thar many Westerners claim it to be lol. And the few times I do see Western scholars actually acknowledge these uncomfortable parts of Buddhism, there's a barrage of excuses of how actually, all traditional interpretations of Buddhism are wrong, and it's only they, the enlightened modern academics, who managed to truly decode the Buddha's message-which basically boils down to all the "inconvenient" parts of the religion being vaguely explained away as a metaphor, lol. I am not convinced.

[@DougsDharma]

Undoubtedly there would have been a range of interpretations throughout history, and many of these would have been literalist. We can acknowledge that and still decide, as we all must do, to interpret texts in ways that resonate with our lives today.

[@fire.smok3]

@@DougsDharma from the way you presented it in the video, it came across that this is the standard Buddhist view and that's what the Buddha really intended. Seems to me like lying by omission at best, because there's no part where you clarified that not only is this just one particular interpretation, it's also a fringe one that's more representative of your own biased perception as a modern, secular Westerner, rather than an authentic reflection of Buddhist tradition. That's like if I made a video about Christianity and I say the resurrection of Christ is a metaphor for oppression being bad. If I say that's my own interpretation that I came up with, sure that's one thing, but if I just present that narrative on its own and imply it to be what the Bible truly intended to convey, then I'm clearly doing a poor job of teaching Christianity accurately.

[@fire.smok3]

@@DougsDharma you know, I've been pondering why it is that in the West this very easy, convenient version of Buddhism is so commonly pushed, and I think it clicked-it's because plenty of young, idle middle- and upper-class people shell out HELLA money for overpriced meditation classes and "spiritual retreats" and the like. This is basically a marketing campaign lol, you have to present Buddhism to be as consumer-convenient as possible to attract customers willing to pay you. People are a lot more eager to pay for something that makes them feel good, instant-spirituality like it's instant noodles lol, rather than actually putting in the effort and discipline that traditional spirituality demanded. I looked at your website and saw you're selling a course for 129 dollars lmaooo so I think my assumption is correct here. Hey it's a good hustle at least, commodify the sacred and jusyify it by saying it's just being open minded huh.

[@RangaNayanajithSilva]

Please refer "Aggangnata Sutra" completely and provide its lexical translation in total when you explain the facts because one of my friend had a broad duscussion about this after he has gone through you. (regarding earth and life of earth.) Please do not take my words offensively even l could not explain certain complex practice in our limited structures of lexical and syntactical terminology and language which following our knowledge and its functions. Simply l am not that knowledgeable (finally that is what l told my friend which made the argument about the fact) Your certain explanations are not providing the root resources clearly. The reason why here the controversial explanation stands in Buddhist Scripture and literature may have appeared after the 3 major sectors of followers .( Therawada, Mahayaana and Heenayaana. And other Thao, Shinto sectors ) Anyway we all following the same philosophical roots and have no any conflict of our followings with each other. Moral guidance in every religion presented with a certain base of exageration, irony,literature and image rich language tools. Main thing is followers have their freedom to go in the path if they can believe the way and its impacts over their lives and the surrounding according to their knowledge is the difference of the Buddhist Philosophy . That is what we called it Yoniso Manasikaara. Yes there are poetics and more exagerated literature in certain therawada Buddhist explanations such like Kethumathee Empire explanation. But Sathara Maha Bhootha- the 4 elements it explains have certain roots even with the modern day explanation in science . "Dhamman charea Sucharithan Nathan dhuchcharithan Charea Dhammachaari Sukanseathi Asmin loke Parambhicha." For doing the good in your life you don't want to be a follower of a faith or a teaching . Anyway here you are trying to explain a very complex area in the Buddhist philosophy. Thank you.May triple gem blessing with you sir.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks, yes the translations which I've referred to are done by Bhikkhu Sujato and Bhikkhu Bodhi, who are generally very good. 🙏

[@anguianoalan100]

Doesn’t modern science show that the universe expanded and it’s belief that at one point it will slow down and might contract again. If this is true then the Buddha was true and as for the water I believe was a simple explanation of the early state of the universe with matter been pure energy and a liquid state

[@gasun1274]

no modern science did not show us that. the papers that came up with that hypothesis made mathematical assumptions beyond what the physical model could accommodate. it's as rigorous as defining division by zero as infinity in all contexts.

[@boredguywithcards]

Nice haircut!

[@DougsDharma]

😄 Thanks!

[@niro7391]

If you find the truth in this sutras you find the truth. It is the ability of the person. The truth of everything must be discovered by us.if you did not find truth on its basic picture you need to discovrt it. But people trying to quick understanding and make view with low level understanding or a basic understanding are not regarded as a real scholar. if you found sutras which goes to some historical extend then it is the real historical extend. Thr vedic view is also true. But it must be understood in correct way. This sutta discribe humanity is self born. Meaning the person become high or low depending on own deeds. Becasuse the brahma is selfborn. You can find it on vedas also. Also it is not a good entry point to learn tripitaka finding a historical extend. Because it is what budda has said originally and tripitaka , vedas are realy old.

[@mahamike]

Is something a myth because who says so?...I guess ...Because you say so...?...Could be true....?...Could not be true...?...Too...!!

[@robr2303]

do you believe in supernatural or spirit beings?

[@DougsDharma]

Personally I don’t, but many people do of course and that’s fine.

[@Xinefanphy]

If we dismiss these stories as untrue or a "satire" then we have to admit that the Buddha lied. And since there's no scientific evidence of any other kind of beings besides human and animal... nor of reincarnation, karma, psychic powers... whatsoever, the Buddha must have lied in most of his suttas. If this is the case, then there's no point of being a Buddhist, what is more pathetic than revering a lifelong con artist, what is the point of keeping the fourth precept when your master is a brazen liar? However, on the other hand, the Buddha states emphatically that a Tathagata does what he speaks and speaks what he does, that everything the Tathagata has said from the day of his Enlightenment to the day of his final Nibbana is just so and cannot be otherwise, and that it is impossible for an arahant to lie, let alone a Buddha. Seems like everything is at odds here. :)

[@DougsDharma]

Satire is one thing, and lying is another. The aim of the Buddha's teaching is to overcome clinging to all things, including to our own viewpoints. Even the dharma itself is but a raft to get us to the further shore. 🙏

[@Xinefanphy]

The raft is a skillful mean, not fabrication. If everything can be considered skillful mean, then evil is skillful mean too. In that case, wiping out humanity should be the most efficient way to achieve liberation, because there's no suffering if there's no life and there's nothing left after death, so we should appreciate all the genocide leaders for helping millions of people end suffering through their skillful means. ^^

[@gasun1274]

lying means to claim what was not true as being true. i havent read the whole sutta, but i think nowhere in that did the buddha claim that everything his said was undisputable fact.

[@FromPlanetZX]

Did u feel shameful when you lied about caste system, the way it's written and the way u told the story here that their 8s hierarchy, that it's birth base and will never change. What u did just now, show the same behaviour of early buddhist, the way they used to sacrilege the sacred things of Hindus.

[@matthewrousseau2982]

Hinduism is terrible the buddha can save you

[@FromPlanetZX]

@@matthewrousseau2982 yah yah, rejoice then that you are saved. Like in Christianity.

[@Sawo-500]

🙏

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊