The Cairngorm Plateau Disaster | A Short Documentary | Fascinating Horror

[@FascinatingHorror]

PS: My friend Disasterthon (who is also based in the UK) has covered this disaster, too! Take a look at his video if you want another take on this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIm4e4aKZaqgpK8.

[@tinalouisestagg]

Great to see you supporting other channels that cover similar content!

[@_Circus_Clapped_]

I'm early, hell yeah

[@Jettaheizer]

I´ve allready seen it on Disasterthon´s channel a few weeks ago, but honestly I like your version more...

[@cadillacdeville5828]

Thanks a bunch, will do 🥰🥰🥰

[@ruffles886]

What if I say no? Will you spank me? 😉

[@dominusetdeus060644]

The guy who taught me a lot about mountains told me "never split a large group into small ones!!!!" And never abandon people behind especially if they have less experience or equipment, thinking that they will catch up.

[@evegreenification]

This is the lesson one draws from horror films (my training ground) as well.

[@MRVISTA-wz7vj]

Agreed. Makes no sense to leave the least experienced all in the same group. That was stupid. I'd like to know what that guys reason for that was.

[@blackosprey2219]

Never split the party...

[@rebeccawoolfolk5377]

I know nothing about hiking in the wilderness, but when the experienced group left the inexperienced one, I thought, "That doesn't sound like a good idea."

[@dankmatter3068]

i mean its all like common sense right

[@Lexcoaster]

The kids huddling around the smalles one to protect him.... Man. That's both heartbreaking as well as heartwarming...

[@zoe8010]

i can only imagine how traumatic that must have been for him, having all of his friends huddle around him and all of them slowly dying

[@Bl4ckD0g]

I'm not sure I'd have wanted to survive that.

[@adonaiyah2196]

Whyd this even happen

[@curbyourshi1056]

Agreed. Bless them all.

[@PoptartParasol]

Good kids, right down to the wire. I agree, it's equal parts heartwarming to hear that as it is heartbreaking

[@shirleyanneyoung955]

My father’s best friend lost his daughter in this tragedy. He was never the same, he could never get over her death.

[@bjhcvuaerpigfy]

I don't believe anybody 'gets over' this kind of grief. Your life goes on and you may learn to live with it, but you don't ever 'get over it'. And yes, it changes you in a way that you can never go back. Thanks for sharing your story.

[@shirleyanneyoung955]

@@bjhcvuaerpigfy you’re right about never getting over that kind of grief, that was badly put but I didn’t know how else to say it. I didn’t mean to be unfeeling. I was about the same age as his daughter and I’m sure it must have been difficult for him to see me growing up and doing things his daughter never got the chance to do. It was so sad, they were both such lovely people. Sorry for my horrible choice of words.

[@bjhcvuaerpigfy]

@@shirleyanneyoung955 No need to apologize Shirley, what you said was absolutely fine. And I'm sorry if my comment came across as some kind of criticism of yours. It wasn't meant that way. What I was trying to do was build on/ add to, what you had said. To reaffirm what you had said. I feel that when it comes to grief there are some myths that do harm and that they, therefore, should be dispelled if possible. You and I both understand that there is some grief that you never 'get over' and I believe people need to hear this. Another one is this idea of 'the 5 stages of grief' which most people have heard of (and believe), but very few have heard that the person who came up with this idea, got it by interviewing people who were dying. By interviewing people who were facing their own deaths, not dealing with the death of a loved one. Obviously, not the same thing. The first rule of grief should be "there are no rules!" Whatever a person is feeling, and whenever they are feeling it: it's okay.

[@Commentator541]

So tragic.

[@KryssLaBryn]

Please tell me the medical personnel knew enough to thaw them out before they declared them dead! Children, especially very young children, but these may still have been young enough for it to happen, actually go into a torpor when they get very cold. Their heart rate can slow down to the point that it's undetectable even with a stethoscope; but if they are still treated as hypothermic and carefully warmed up again, there's a chance that they might not actually be dead. There was a terrible case in I think Ontario several years ago, where a toddler woke up very early and managed to let herself out into the yard to play one winter; but then couldn't get the door open again to go back inside, and was found huddled up against the door quite some time later, cold and stiff. Of course EMTs were called, and she was rushed off to the hospital-- where some idiot (who as I recall was later charged) declared her dead at once, zipped her into a body bag, and sent her off to the morgue for an autopsy. Which then found that she had actually died from suffocation, from being zipped into the bag. :( On a happier note, back in I guess the late Seventies or very early Eighties, I met a kid around my own age (young teen?) who had, when he was younger, fallen through the ice on the north coast of British Columbia (where we lived). He had been trapped under the ice in the freezing water for around half an hour before they got him out, and frankly, the water temperature is probably the only reason he didn't just drown. Had taken some damage to the speech centre of his brain and was a little hard to understand at first; but once we could we realized pretty quickly he was a perfectly normal kid otherwise. I still remember a sign I saw taped up in an emergency department somewhere: "Kids aren't dead until they're warm and dead." I really hope the medical personnel there knew that. :/

[@hollyann9610]

Why would you put the less experienced guide in charge of the younger and inexperienced kids!? The younger and less experienced need more support in good conditions, let alone frigid bad weather.

[@vaughnsigal4560]

Even more so, why did they split up.

[@nlwilson4892]

The man proving his manliness by going with the quicker group. (I'm not saying that is a good reason). But often you do get male teachers who are into the outdoor activities trying to prove themselves in front of the boys.

[@nancyaustin9516]

Yeah, that shows the mindset--they were thinking this was a walk in the park, nothing potentially risky about hiking in the Cairngorms!

[@pickles3128]

I noticed almost all of the names of the group that died were female. Perhaps they split up mostly by gender?

[@underwaterdick]

Agreed, a massive failing here was splitting the group entirely by ability, leader included. Splitting up was a good idea, but the split wasn't done correctly.

[@mamamiabenjamia]

once i was telling a neighbour's friend from europe about someone who got lost on a canoe trip and did the right thing by staying where she was until someone found her. neighbour's friend thought this was weird and was like 'why didn't she just keep canoeing until she got to the next village?' i was like 'this is canada. there is no next village.'

[@OmmerSyssel]

Well, Europe isn't Canada, so the logic was relevant. Adapting to given natural circumstances is the basic rule.

[@mamamiabenjamia]

@@OmmerSyssel my point wasn't to mock her because, of course, that logic is completely relevant and she was in a foreign country where it's not obvious that circumstances would be different for outbound survival. i meant to highlight that even logical thinking could doom you depending on your understanding of the circumstances, which goes for both of us. if our places were switched, i'd be just as unlikely to understand that there's a village a couple of hours down the river as she would be to understand that there isn't any village anywhere.

[@ix6553]

@Puppy Power what is the acronym for this ? I couldn’t find it online

[@karyndewit193]

Lol

[@Ryuko-T72]

Yup. Very easy to get lost in the various winding rivers and thick forests in the north.

[@josephvanwie6706]

Putting all the older experienced together, and all the younger inexperienced in one group is unforgivable! Especially the adults that ran the school.

[@illuminaticake4528]

Actually that wasnt the school's decision

[@DancingPony1966-kp1zr]

It does strike me that if the more experienced groups were behind the others, they might’ve caught up with and assisted the others….

[@TransKidRevolution]

Quiet loser🤓

[@thomaslane9899]

what was the man thinking? selfish attitude and irresponsible to leave younger and weaker people behind and press ahead with your own agenda - completely irresponsible!!

[@AisforAlibi1]

The first rule of hiking - the group stays TOGETHER. If one turns back, everyone turns back. The group never splits. I love to hike, camp, etc. and I've been disappointed at having to turn back several times but better arriving home safe than dead.

[@haroldwilkes6608]

Agreed...the weakest link controls the advance where hazard is involved. Unless you're past the point of no return (which they weren't).

[@grahamjarman]

exactly, sad these people didnt use sense

[@LittleGreenSoldier]

I remember trying to drill that into the heads of the people I was hiking with on a college trip. We were in the Swiss Alps, and every time they started wandering away from the group I would scold them until they were quite sick of me... until one of our group collapsed from dehydration, as he had been drinking the night before and hadn't brought enough water. Then suddenly I was the most popular person in the group because I knew how to care for him and had a whistle that summoned some German hikers who had radios.

[@kevinjones9547]

Is it especially true while backpacking. Usually one person is in charge of carrying the fuel, one person is in charge of carrying the tent, one person is in charge of carrying the food etc. if one person were to get lost or to separate from the group, they wouldn’t be able to make it very long on their own but if the group stays together they can survive a lot longer

[@swayjaayy5495]

That's the first rule of hiking? Hmm. I have been long distance hiking and a avid fan of hiking most of my life and I've never heard that as a first rule. Quit trying to sound smart and dramatic. First rule is be prepared and knowledgeable of where you are going. Obviously so

[@Hakumeiun]

Here in the US, parks often urge hikers to let the slowest, least experienced people set the pace for a hike. When better, more experienced hikers outpace those who are slower, disaster can easily follow

[@nlwilson4892]

That is generally the practice in the UK, any splitting of groups is usually so one can take an easier route, missing the peak for instance.

[@alleycatalog]

I was once left behind by myself because I was wearing the wrong king of sandals and could not go fast. I got very dehydrated and some lady gave me half of her water. While I was a pretty experienced hiker it took something as simple as footwear, lack of water and impatience on the part of my fellow hikers to make it a bad situation.

[@blueskies6475]

Well, duh, it's me first generation!

[@royfearn4345]

The speed of a convoy is the speed of its slowest ship. Old seafaring maxim.

[@shimmershine6902]

My friends when they leave me behind when I stop to tie my shoe 😔

[@oliversmith9200]

What a sad tragedy. When Catherine saw the rescuers, but, her yelling for help couldn't be heard, I thought of my whistle. A common sport whistle is something worth carrying at all times, certainly out of doors.

[@alisonwilson9749]

We don't do stuff as tough as the Cairngorms, but we always have a whistle with us- one each. Even if we don't get into difficulties (and we haven't in over 40 years) one day we may find someone else who is.

[@kspen6110]

It saved Rose on the platform she was laying on in the Titanic. 😉

[@tvctaswegia497]

A whistle can be heard much further than a shout, and a mirror flash (conditions permitting) seen much further again. I've carried both as standard emergency gear for years even though I've never needed them. It's incredible how ill-prepared this group was (singularly, not carrying a single shelter while walking into snow country with bad weather forecast...), a cascade of failures that ended in tragedy.

[@sdemosi]

@@tvctaswegia497 the 2nd group's flares being buried was an extraordinary turn of events. They had not made it to shelter. The flares were vital and they didn't even have them to signal to rescuers who were passing near them in the night. I keep wondering how the hell this happened. They had a lifeline & lost it. Stories like this are terrifying but it's amazing the risks we and our schools took as kids. When I'm hillwalking or mountain trekking now I always bring a flare and a GPS emergency locator in a aerogel pocket. I never want to find myself in a situation where I can't call for help. Also a lot of hiking packs now come with built in whistles as they're such a simple and important safety device

[@tvctaswegia497]

@@sdemosi From some bitter experience, being over-prepared is far better than trying to manage a situation or emergency underprepared. It's the key Scout motto. It's tragic, I don't understand why she did not have the flares to hand to use the instant needed. That said, I've been seriously hypothermic, so I understand, plus the exhaustion, trauma and terror of trying to handle panicked children probably can't be understated. It's easy to make armchair decisions after the fact but in those hairy moments or inattention FH highlights, it's easy to make a mistake (even an honest one). Quite often a few minor errors or miscalculations that are each manageable, in sum snowball into disaster. Stay safe (and prepared!) out there.

[@TheRealChristopherB]

I can't imagine the trauma of what the Raymond, the sole survivor of the group, must've gone through. Getting trapped with your school friends, in unbearably cold weather for multiple days, not knowing if you'd live or die. And when he did get rescued, the fact that it was *only* him to survive (outside of Catherine), oh man the survivor's guilt he must've gone through. Hopefully Raymond, wherever he is now, is at peace with the events of the disaster. Time heals all wounds, but the scars will most likely remain.

[@asahelnettleton9044]

He'd be in his mid 60s now, if still living.

[@SaltyAndSassy]

Spoiler alert! You should warn that you were going to comment the tragic ending. I was only half way through when I read this. Lol. It’s all good.

[@rabbitttz]

@@SaltyAndSassy don't read the comments first. What sucks is when watching something on your phone and the newer way of the comments., the top one can't be unseen bc its right under the video.

[@BeeWhistler]

Yeah, I hope he understood that they huddled around him for a reason. They were willing to risk death to protect him. I always feel like if someone makes a choice like that you want to try and remember that this was what they wanted to happen even if they couldn't survive it themselves, and make the most of the life they saved.

[@Not_Always]

@@SaltyAndSassy Something isn't called a "disaster" because it had a happy ending. Are you stupid?

[@deprofundis3293]

As others have said, splitting the "experienced" up from the inexperienced was ridiculous and definitely makes me question just how experienced Ben actually was. Given that he died 7 years later in another outdoors accident, I'm thinking this leader had a wee bit too much overconfidence...

[@paddyjoe1884]

The most insulting thing you can call a mountaineer is "experienced" because generally you learn from your mistakes. I'm "experienced" (in that I've "extended the hike" or "explored other possible destinations" once or twice). The trick is learning to do it safely. And ya overconfidence is dangerous on mountains.

[@nikstone2420]

Lets just call it what he was stupid.

[@johnattwood8467]

interesting. youre right. thanks for the info.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

The slow and insidious killer.

[@slyfoxie55]

It's a disgrace that the less experienced group had his girlfriend and a volunteer with little experience.

[@duzehalo]

I can't. There were so many mistakes made. I would never call myself experienced hiker (though I attended and helped organised several treks) but red flags were raising left and right when I was watching this video: - never split the group - unless there are two routes (harder and easier) - and never lose the tail entirely, wait for them to catch up. Optimally, have a second experienced guide at the very end. - especially, never split the group based on experience - the moment you have split a group into experienced and inexperienced, one of them is set for failure. - never start the hike late into the day - start as early as possible so in case of any unplanned events you still have time to safely manage them. - never start the hike with ski lift/cable way (unless you know 100% the route is below your group's experience) - leave it for the easy return - this way you'll get a chance to see if any of the participants isn't fit for the hike and needs more assistance. - bad weather? Seriously reassess your plan and scale it down. It's better to have it uneventful than to have someone die. Extremely bad weather? CANCEL THE PLAN AND WAIT IT OUT! - keep your eyes (not literally) on the emergency kit - know where it is at all times and keep it safe - it will try to keep you safe in return. All these points I learned when dealing with experienced adult hikers. I wouldn't even attempt to plan any winter trip like that for unexperienced teens. In mountains things can go very wrong very quick in fair summer weather

[@melodiefrances3898]

Thank you Calming Chaos for a succinct analysis. 👍🏼

[@soaptastesalrightiguess7932]

waddup waddup I did this 7 times with (somewhat) inexperienced teens on mountains that are SIGNIFICANTLY longer, more dangerous and more difficult than Cairngorm. bad weather is the killer. It can turn a route you know like the back of your hand into a living nightmare in the blink of an eye. While the organization and management was non-existent, you really can not understate just how much a storm can change things.

[@gordonaliasme1104]

Have a medal 🥉

[@beanyboom18]

Children leading children on a potentially deadly trip, being late november and freezing cold is a recipe for disaster. They should never have been allowed to go.

[@dr.coomer789]

Yeah the 20 year old (if that's what you mean by children) was pretty inexperienced with the area

[@staceysharee9387]

I don’t understand why the more experienced leader split with the more able bodied students.

[@FRLN500]

The leaders were NOT children. There were adults in charge. Please watch the video again.

[@Vid_Master]

yea but now you get to hear an interesting story

[@AwakeAndGrateful]

I can’t imagine how freezing it must have been! I once went camping in Scotland, during their Summer, and that was cold enough for me!

[@unpunlievable]

I'm a Canadian who grew up regularly experiencing -30c to -40c temperatures during the winter. Just wanted to add a bit about what it's like to do anything in temperatures that cold. Material gets stiffer and more brittle, including your clothes, jacket, etc, so that the fabric is 'snapping' when you move, and crinkles are held, making it easier for gaps to form at the edges. Of course, your extremities and exposed skin get numbed and stiff as well, making it harder to move and do anything. The moisture of your breath freezes on anything it touches, building up frost, and this can include your skin, eyelashes, etc. (my stepdad once got a mustache-icicle during winter pictures). As a kid I once lived in a rural area with a long driveway I would have to walk all the way down to reach the school bus. During the winter my mom would dress us up with tights on under our pants and snow pants for the extra layer. By the time I got to the end of the driveway my eyelashes and any hair poking out from my hat would be frosted white. There's no escape from the cold. You can tuck your hands in your armpits, but your body is already struggling to keep warm as it is, and you just end up with chilled armpits. The numbness cannot be understated. Exposed skin starts to feel like blubber. Doing anything physical for any length of time when you are in temperatures this cold SUCKS. It's just a hundred times harder than doing it in warm weather. These experiences are in safe environments, where I was able to get warm within an hour or two, and had proper winter protection. I've never experienced frostbite or being so cold I was in danger. Spending two nights in the open with a snowstorm on them must have been hellish.

[@Abeardeen]

I grew up in Duluth MN and have been up around Bemidji and Red Lake during winters and have experienced the same temperature range as you. If being in frigid winters has taught me anything is know how to layer for the temps and to never overestimate how long you think you can be outside until youre feeling like death.

[@hairymotter5455]

Like you say, until you've experienced really low temperature mixed with ferocious wind your average person cant comprehend it. I was walking into a winter climb on Snowden a few years back and a group of lads started following us off the tourist path. We advised them to go back as one was wearing a t-shirt and drinking spirits but they didn't listen. We saw him on our descent looking bright red minus his t-shirt...crazy! It was cold enough higher up to instantly hurt if we took off a glove

[@Walamonga1313]

Exactly. It's like asking someone to run normally underwater. It's just pretty much impossible to even move normally

[@punkiller666]

@@hairymotter5455 sounds like that lad was on the final throes of hypothermia, getting rid of clothing and visibly distressed, maybe. Did he survive?

[@nurwirawan]

Wow that sounds awful, I live in tropical country and the coldest temperature I've experienced is 4 degrees celcius, that alone was cold enough to made my hands and face itchy

[@jakedixonvideodiary]

Man this is crazy! I was hiking in the Cairngorms for the first time, for 3 days last weekend and it was a nightmare - the weather was awful and I took a tumble into the Geldie Burn and hypothermia set in so quickly, it was terrifying! Luckily, we happened upon one of these bothys and the Mountain Bothy Association just so happened to be having their first annual meeting is over 3 years - what an amazing group of people, they volunteer to maintain the 100 odd bothys around Scotland and all seemed to have a story to share similar to mine, when a Bothy and the people within had saved their lives. They got me in front of the fire and were all popping up and putting their gas heaters around me, one of the guys even pulled out a drill and rope and hung me up a washing line to dry all of my clothes and sleeping bag! A few of the guys also had their guitars so a night of music and a lot of whiskey followed. It was an amazing night with some really special people that made everything worth while, including the hypothermia! Feeling even luckier after watching this 😬

[@kathyinwonderlandl.a.8934]

How wonderful this was your experience…

[@kasimsultonfan]

As soon as the guitars came out , I'd have walked out naked into the dark and taken my chances on the mountain...

[@eisaatana96]

Sounds like you were woefully inadequately prepared

[@Badficwriter]

This is the adventure seeker's mindset. Wanting to feel excitement by risking death in the wilderness, not wanting to properly prepare because thats' "boring", feeling aggrieved when reality sets in "why hasn't civilization made the wilderness more like a garden park? Bothys should be everywhere!", and having all lessons blotted out by rescue "Other people will pick up after my mistakes, so my screwups were worth it".

[@sylvester452]

imagine being the one surviving child, watching all your friends die - one by one - as they huddle around you to keep you safe. the survivor's guilt & PTSD must have been immense

[@cherryontop1137]

The survivor probably wasn't noticing or watching anything at that point because of the delirious and numbing effects of the cold on the brain and the senses. Also, it's quite possible that the friends simply slipped into hypothermic sleep without making a sound or signaling in any noticeable way that they were dying. I guess this would be considered quite a ghastly "blessing" in a way. But, for sure, the survivor probably had years of therapy afterwards.

[@jic1]

@@cherryontop1137 I don't know about that. I mean, I *hope* they got some help and support, but this was the UK in the '70s. They could well have just been told to suck it up and get on with it.

[@cherryontop1137]

@@jic1 You're probably right. That's so heartbreaking.

[@PoptartParasol]

@@cherryontop1137 though I'm sure in retrospect, for the boy, the trauma would be immense. Sometimes it doesn't take gruesome images to get ptsd, just the very fact of being the sole survivor is enough to traumatize the brain.

[@adde9506]

I doubt he was conscious, let alone coherent. But yes, it would have been mind breakingly awful.

[@alistairmcelwee7467]

Given the demonstrable effectiveness of the shelter in saving a bunch of kids, wouldn’t building more of them be a better solution rather than destroying the existing shelters? I grew up in the Ruahine mountain range of New Zealand, and we had shelters (called “huts”) dotted around the ranges. I’ve stayed overnight in these shelters during hiking trips. Having a place that’s clean and dry and has a fireplace can be life-saving. Our rule was that you always left it with another fire set (but not lit!) for the next person to arrive because they might be arriving an inch from death in cold wet weather, and a fire could save them.

[@bravo795mp]

This was my exact thought.

[@hollycarey8426]

In America it would.get destroyed by vandals....sadly

[@vulcanlogic4480]

It seems logical more would lessen the likelihood of this reoccurring. I see more and more nonsensical thinking by those who make policy.

[@BjarniArnason]

Having the shelters can encourage hikers to be underprepared and rely on the shelter in case things go bad. Not having them excludes people from attempting it unless they are prepared for anything. It could make sense on hikes that normally are considered low-medium difficulty for super rare emergencies, but for expert level hikes you need to be able to survive whatever is thrown at you, shelter or not.

[@vulcanlogic4480]

@@BjarniArnason As it should be. If there were no shelters, it should remain that way. But there were, and they helped more than they hurt. Ultimately, there are consequences for our actions and I feel it’s impractical to bubble wrap a world we don’t respect.

[@Lauren-hs5ht]

The fact that the older children protected the youngest with their lives breaks my heart.

[@samspencer7765]

Damn Catherine had perseverance, if she hadn't managed to go on walking, stumbling and crawling toward safety they wouldn't have found anyone alive.

[@amazed92]

they didn't find them all alive - just one out of the group that was with her survived

[@jic1]

@@amazed92 Which doesn't contradict what he said.

[@RK-zh5vj]

Too bad she didnt have the intelligence to not lead a bunch of kids to their death. Hardly a hero.

[@RK-zh5vj]

@@narichan No. We have a thing called personal responsibility. I know its mostly lost now, but she is the adult. She is responsible. Period. She lead them to their deaths, there is no way to argue this.

[@stevenkelby2169]

@@RK-zh5vj I disagree with you. I will argue with you. Saying that she led them to their deaths implies intent. There was no intent. You are wrong 🍻

[@Teeb2023]

4:31 _"They split into smaller groups, with the more experienced hikers [...] striking out ahead"_ Stupidest decision ever.

[@francis7336]

what could go wrong i wonder 💀

[@trentvlak]

They were weary of doing the slow walk.

[@LewHammer]

My hand was over my mouth as soon as I heard that bit. I have precisely 0 hiking experience yet I still knew that sounded like a terrible idea.

[@markcynic808]

Experienced hikers? They were 15 year olds.

[@Riley0509]

Just wrong. You don’t do that ever.

[@Me-qn7ig]

As a Swiss mountaineer who has quite some experience (done multiple 4000m+ in the alps and the caucasus as well as doing winter mountaineering) I find it hard to overstate, how bad a whiteout can be and how much harder it is to move in high snow. Even today with GPS technology and modern weather forecast you can easily get lost (electronics don't like the cold) and get surprised by mountainous weather changes. Doing hikes in the winter should always be done carefully with consideration towards own experience, the experience of the participants, weather forecast, emergency shelters, optional paths, equipment etc.

[@Z0RDR4CK]

_whiteout=_ there no longer is a back or forth, a left or right and you can just make about a difference between up and down. and as with most tragedies, there is always more than one reason as the cause.

[@hallstewart]

Totally agree. Mountain snowstorms with high winds are extremely disorientating and debilitating and required great fortitude and strength to escape. The UK's mountains look benign and that is their hazard. Yes, we can agree that they should not have been out that day, but experience is not a guarantee of safety. Mountain guides and strong mountaineers have lost their lives in Scotlands mountains. There is no shame in being careful. Be adventurous, but also take the utmost care and live enjoy the mountains.

[@nomoretwitterhandles]

@@Z0RDR4CK did you really just try to explain what a whiteout is to a SWISS MOUNTAINEER? 😂

[@Z0RDR4CK]

@@nomoretwitterhandles nah, but guess what, some people don't know

[@prdurnion83]

Every mountaineering disaster that I've heard about always starts with "the party split into two groups." That becomes the point of no return, it seems. But I'm not a mountaineer, so I'm not sure if it's just standard practice to divide into groups.

[@garrick3727]

The police Sergeant in charge of the rescue said this, which I feel rings true: “There was no need for the tragedy ever to have happened. To my mind, it was an expedition planned for the benefit of the instructors rather than the teenagers - it was far, far too ambitious for them.” What struck me about all this is the lack of experience. When it was noted that the 20 year old guide had lost the flares in the snow, that was a real face-palm moment. She was one of the survivors too. I was reading about the aftermath, and the 23 year old guide actually died while mountaineering 7 years later. The 20 year old moved to Canada, which is not uncommon for people in Scotland, but I expect she was happy to be free of reminders of the event and she has refused to talk about it. On a happier note, the small boy who survived went on to become a top competitive canoeist.

[@carr0760]

She fell asleep due to hypothermia and woke up buried in snow. It's not like she purposely dropped the flares. This was a failure of the organisation as a whole and the experienced leader, not the lesser experienced leaders who just did what they were told.

[@garrick3727]

@@carr0760 They were inexperienced leading a group, that is the point. If they were experienced they would know how not to lose stuff. Why is it that If a corporation or government says "everyone is to blame so no-one is to blame" and "they were just following orders" we are outraged, yet people throw out those reasons in defense all the time.

[@carr0760]

@@garrick3727 I didn't say no one was to blame. I said the organisation failed. The girl was just doing her job. It was the organisation's responsibility to ensure they had staff who were capable of doing that job. The video even explained that when one has hypothermia they don't think clearly. She made mistakes due to her decreases mental capacity. Was she inexperienced? Obviously. Was it her fault that her employer sent her out on a hike she was unprepared for? No.

[@garrick3727]

@@carr0760 If you watched the video you would know that the guides volunteered for this job. It was their idea to go, even with reports of inclement weather. This is what the police Sergeant meant. They never should have gone but the instructors really wanted to go. You can blame the authorities for not having the proper certification of guides, and that is fair criticism. However, my OP was about the recklessness of the guides. There is some basic level of personal responsibility that people need to have. Sure, your employer takes some of the blame for allowing you to do things you lack experience to do, but most of the responsibility is yours.

[@mairheadc7013]

@@garrick3727 and don’t you think she’ll live with that guilt for the rest of her life? She didn’t intentionally lose the flares like you’re making out. She clearly did her best and it wasn’t enough, it’s the schools responsibility to carry out health and safety checks on any out of school trips. It’s easy enough for you to say this in hindsight, I’m sure they know now too.

[@sdraper2011]

Wow, as a hiker myself I don't think they should have destroyed the shelters. I'm kind of surprised they did.

[@lumindoesvideos]

If anything, they should've added more of them.

[@aleksandralis9134]

No it is very danger opportunity. You think that you have some chance, some help but it isn't helping

[@sdraper2011]

@@lumindoesvideos I agree!

[@jackiecooke1851]

I was also surprised that they did. Kind of expected the opposite to happen because of the disaster.

[@johnr797]

@@aleksandralis9134 wtf are you talking about

[@babyleafsaladd5322]

What a horrifying experience for Raymond, having your friends huddle around you for warmth, all slowly dying one by one, knowing that you’ll probably die soon too if you’re not found… that poor kid must have been absolutely traumatised. That’s truly the stuff of nightmares.

[@AK-jt7kh]

I think most of the horror for Raymond would have come after the fact. In reality, in such a situation, you are not aware of your surroundings. You usually tend to think the people around you are still alive - and you're not able to check that they're not. Hypothermia also really impairs your senses. It's like being under the influence of powerful sedatives. Processing what happened after the fact & trying to remember little details to make sense of what happened is where the mental horror comes from.

[@CarlCoppinger]

​@@AK-jt7khI feel so bad for him 😭

[@aurorawolfe6060]

interesting how they chose 18, 20, and 23 year old guides. in my eyes those ages are "kids" as well, in terms of overall life experience. though i will say i'm amazed at Catherine's bravery and determination.

[@skipintroux4444]

Just like the bulk of armed forces who are encouraged to kill each other in wars. Sad.

[@almenajamband9206]

Don't forget about William, he was 15 and tried his best to help.

[@hitrapperandartistdababy]

My exact thoughts. Im 23 And I would not give someone my else the responsibility of that many young kids.

[@jacobl4699]

@Puppy Power that’s a very large assumption there pal

[@darianzielinsky3284]

They are kids.

[@deprofundis3293]

I've experienced pretty major hypothermia before. It is truly debilitating. I'm amazed Catherine did even as much as she was able to! Your body shuts down and wants to do ANYTHING except take action.

[@tedthesailor172]

Yes, its extremely frightening if you've never experienced it before, as well as debilitating...

[@borderlineiq]

The point was, she was accountable for the risky decision to proceed a) when they were clearly told bad weather was coming, and b) when her group was lagging behind and therefore showing clear signs of being unable to handle conditions. That she fell victim to her own error is but a consequence of that decision.

[@thefreedomguyuk]

Very true. I've been in a hypothermia situation, and it's weird what happens to survival instinct. Just getting so very tired, but it's really not too bad, it could be much worse. Let's just take a rest for a while..... The brain is simply shutting down for common sense.

[@grahamjarman]

@@thefreedomguyuk like how some people sit on a rock on everest and never get up

[@deprofundis3293]

@@grahamjarman yes...I didn't go into detail, but I really don't think I'd be alive today if I'd been alone. As it was, I only really got to a functional level because I'd planned ahead (bc I tend to over plan to a fault, lol) and had a 24 hr emergency heat pack in my snowmobile. I think that thing saved my life bc I wasn't going to be able to get down the mountain unless I was conscious...and that wasn't going to happen unless I got at least somewhat lifted from hypothermia.

[@scottlarson1548]

This reminded me of the students who died here hiking Mount Hood in 1986. The teacher should have turned the group back once the weather turned bad but he thought it would be a good experience for them to hike in freezing wind and blowing snow.

[@carlclark1757]

Came here to say this. (If you’re not familiar, Google “Oregon Episcopal School Mount Hood disaster” for a depressingly similar story to this one.) And they said it was a character-building exercise…

[@ghosttowntomato]

@@carlclark1757 typical Baby Boomer behavior-- worst generation ever in human history. Caused more death and destruction than ever imaginable.

[@hubertdenise3100]

Was he a Pe teacher by any chance? Mine in secondary school made us do Pe outside in winter in the rain, in thin summer time oe uniform because apparently we don’t need jumpers or coats in single digit temperatures.

[@scottlarson1548]

@@hubertdenise3100 No, he was the school's chaplain (it was a Christian school). He was not qualified to make life or death decisions.

[@ninedaysjane2466]

That's exactly what I was thinking. The similarities are uncanny.

[@ingloriousbaxter]

This one is particularly heartbreaking because it wasn’t caused by greed, or systemic negligence. Just inexperienced young adults guiding even less experienced children. I can’t imagine the pain the survivors felt

[@mikeduggincom]

Systemic

[@yosefshekelberg5433]

"systemic negligence" You people really need to stop regurgitating terms you were inundated with during your brainwashing.

[@ingloriousbaxter]

@@yosefshekelberg5433 ………. Um…… what is it you think that term means?

[@Eric-kn4yn]

Painless death hypothermia

[@erikakakakaperry]

My mum went to this school and was in the same class as most of these children. She hadn’t been able to go on the trip as her parents (my grandparents) couldn’t afford it. She lost one of her best friends in this disaster...very sad, and not something she likes to talk about, even now. You covered this story so well! Thank you.

[@7dustchickstar436]

I really value the ways these stories, however tragic, are handled with dignity and respect. Very sorry for your mom’s pain and loss.

[@paulmallery6719]

Too long of a hike with forecast bad weather.???

[@yas-ob4hd]

@Angelcynn Midgard same thing

[@yas-ob4hd]

@Angelcynn Midgard sorry you’re upset you got a response in a public comment section

[@genosmith8020]

Omg wow. Can u imagine what would've happened if she went. Wow..

[@craignightingale8022]

A mate of mine once went on an expedition in Scotland with some friends from uni, in the summer, not in the Cairngorms. They had plenty of experience hiking in the English Lake District but this turned out to be NO preparation for Scotland. The ruggedness of the terrain and the changeable weather took it out of them, as did their inability to read the land. They kept getting bogged down in soggy ground, having to expend energy diverting around them, with by then soggy boots and the attendant blisters starting to form. This was in the days before people all had mobile phones or GPS handsets. After a couple.of days they realised they were well behind schedule, consuming more food than they expected, more tired and beat up than they expected to be. Thankfully, it dawned on them unanimously, almost at the same time, that they had to turn back. Scotland had kicked their arsed and they didn't want to become statistics.

[@marielcalder103]

Conversely my boyfriend and his mates, who did have experience in the Cairngorms, decided for a change of scenery to go hiking in the Lake District and came back suffering from sunburn! This was over 55 years ago. RIP to the young souls who lost their lives. 🙏🕊️

[@Heligany]

Yes it can be terrible out on the moors, especially after lots of rain, I was going out to my peat bank a few years ago and the track was flooded out so I figured Id go up higher on the bank... such a nightmare off the track, everyway I went ended in bog on all sides after a while I couldnt even work out how to get back to the flooded track- you start to think you are going to be at it for hours (cant imagine how much worse it would be if fog came down too- I could see the track and the edge of the village and I was still starting to get a bit freaked out).

[@Charlie-hd8nr]

Need a fire place fire wood and shelter and matches, these shelters need to be rebuilt plus more of them and located in positions where most likely needed.Very sad indeed Charlie from Aus . Scottish descendent early Aus history Macintosh.

[@OcyTaviAh]

"We should get rid of emergency shelters because some people may misuse them" is such a bad take

[@MarsJenkar]

I find it especially galling because the people who actually made it to that particular shelter all survived!

[@explicitbrainjuice6545]

@@MarsJenkar I really don’t know how they came to the conclusion to demolish it.

[@chatteyj]

@@explicitbrainjuice6545 I can totally see the logic behind it, without it being there they would have decided and been able to turn back when the weather turned bad rather than pushing on to the shelter. The shelter gives a a goal to aim for and perhaps a false sense of security. Also to me those emergency shelters look like death traps. What happens if theres too much snow overnight and in the morning you cannot open the door because of the weight of the snow?

[@piperjaycie]

Me neither but I think it had something to do with the people who made that decision being seen as doing something. Even if it was stupid they can say ‘We did something about this’. I personally would have thought building a few more would have been a better idea.

[@guildwarrior3232]

@@chatteyj Hence the need for experienced guides. The decision to demolish those shelters is like removing an item from your survival kit. Asinine.

[@dorian4534]

I'm curious if the hike was approved under the assumption/understanding that the most experienced "instructor" would be with the entire group the entire time. The fact that they split up at all in those conditions baffles the mind. Product of a different era?

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

I doubt it. It was always taught wherever I've been, and I'm 45... That's not exactly prior to 1971, BUT most of the elders who taught us kids acted (at least) like it was the rule for their entire lives. I've never once heard that it's a good idea to split, and ESPECIALLY never to split a group based on "experience" like that... You want more experienced hikers among the inexperienced, to help the leaders... That's also just common sense. No, this strikes me as a case of "Teenage and Young Adult" tensions changing the plans "on the spot"... ;o)

[@Br3ttM]

The experienced group was lucky, though. If the timing had been different, they might not have found the shelter before white-out conditions.

[@Varangian_af_Scaniae]

"Product of a different era?" Product of a better time, when the weak were thinned out by bad genes, ignorance, laziness and so on. Today everyone is coddled and soon we all have to stay inside 24/7 to be "safe".

[@phantomsoldier497]

@@Varangian_af_Scaniae that's a quite retarded statement. People have hiked safely for centuries, it was an avoidable tragedy caused by inexperienced guides that led to death innocent kids

[@Varangian_af_Scaniae]

@@phantomsoldier497 R-word, that's quite offensive toward Democrats. Either you are a coddled zoomer or you are one of the parents who coddles them.

[@Outpost-13-Hockey]

I live just outside the Cairngorms and regularly hike there in winter. It never ceases to surprise me how many folks rock up totally inadequately prepared. Either people who don't do much hiking or hikers obsessed with cutting weight in their packs. I think, maybe because the UK in general doesn't get much extreme weather in terms of snow or cold, that people get a false sense of security. It really is a place where it's better to have and not need, than need and not have.

[@johannesbols57]

But... they have their PHONES, don't they? 🤥

[@MichaelB-jw5po]

So the plan was to just leave all of the younger kids behind with two less experienced guides in an area known for it's sudden, unpredictable inclimate weather and just assume they'd be fine?

[@nowandaround312]

This is probably the rationale for why they destroyed the shelters. The experienced group assumed the others would be fine because the shelters were around and everyone would supposedly be able to find one. When you know that nothing will be there to save you if you get into trouble, you're more cautious. You're less likely to leave inexperienced people behind and more likely to turn back before it gets to the point of being too late, instead of deciding to keep going in bad conditions based on the idea that you'll be able to reach a shelter.

[@generaleerelativity9524]

Yes, his plan was to wait until they were all dead so he could steal their granola bars and trail mix. Then he can win the _"Ultimate Survivor Marathon!"_

[@ianh1504]

Inclement*

[@alerey4363]

and without even a radio equipment!

[@prestonhanson501]

Well..uuaagh, yep. They wanted to save their own ass first. Go back later for the rest. At least they are safe right

[@brandonmilligan7706]

So their solution to the problem of not having enough emergency shelters was to demolish two existing ones instead of just adding more? Did i get that right?

[@princessravendiamond4288]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either

[@GGhireal]

@@Stevie-J Thanks, this made me understand it better

[@qx4n9e1xp]

Take these violent shelters off our streets! Only authorities should be authorized to have assault shelters!

[@adamlea6339]

The issue is risk compensation. Putting shelters up all over the place can have the unintended consequence of encouraging people into potentially hostile environments that they do not have the ability to deal with. Thus it can, in some situations, claim more lives than it saves by building more shelters. Rather like drivers driving more aggressively/recklessly when seatbelts were made mandatory because the seatbelt makes the driver feel safer, so they drive in a more risky manner, which is bad news for vulnerable road users (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation).

[@petermartin9494]

It makes perfect sense. People should be prepared and organized in such a way that these shelters are never needed.

[@jammasterflash9448]

A friend of mine, Mick Taylor, was part of the Mountain Rescue for this incident. The only time I’ve ever seen him get emotional was when we were out climbing and ended up on the plateau where he recalled that night. Sad times

[@TextbookSadass]

This should be the top comment

[@mihalyshilage5826]

You should ask Mick about his time in Wolf Creek

[@the_once-and-future_king.]

How did this happen? Sans effective communication the whole group should only go as fast as the slowest member! At least put the most experienced leader with the inexperienced group if you have no option but to split up.

[@nicholasschroeder3678]

Yeah, I thought there was something really cold about the older guys leaving the younger ones far in tow. Seems callous.

[@curbyourshi1056]

My thoughts exactly. I'd have put the experienced group at the back.

[@Vid_Master]

They should have had a bathtub full of lard with them, in case of emergency

[@reachandler3655]

I thought that was really odd too. They should have stayed together and kept to the speed of the slowest. Really though, with the forecast inclement conditions, they should have adjusted their plans and stayed closer to safety. You cater to the least able/experienced of the group.

[@kidkurmudgeon-0_o]

I think of this as "The Penfold rule" aka my legs don't know how to be as long as yours.

[@maverickstclare3756]

They were 500 yards from shelter too. Catherine Davidson's legs were locked into a kneeling position, her hands were frozen solid when the helicopter crew found her. The spot where they were stranded is called Feith Buidhe

[@saladasss2092]

oh shit, that means she lost her limbs

[@baronvonhoughton]

@@saladasss2092 I lost my sock

[@ah7027]

@@saladasss2092 possibly. its not impossible that they couldve saved them. would be curious to know though.

[@sirridesalot6652]

@@saladasss2092 No she didn't. She recovered and later moved to Canada, She doesn't talk about the Cairngorm Plateau ordeal. Article here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorm_Plateau_disaster#Davidson's_group

[@davidsirmons]

That man, the lead hiker should have been criminally charged. That's unacceptable he got away from the deaths of those poor people without so much as a fine, let alone prison.

[@CristinaF210]

I'm completely speechless, can't find words to describe the humanity of those children by trying to keep the youngest boy of the group alive, and to know he's the only who survived from that group it's beyond words, can't imagine how forever thankful his parents must have been ❤️💕RIP sweet souls

[@dianeatkinson2015]

I have a similar tale of unprepared teacher taking children out on mountains - we all (age13 maybe 12 of us)survived but very scared. It was Easter - March UK - a fairly local famous mountain with our English teacher and his wife 1976. Fine weather when we set off. Towards the summit a huge snowstorm whiteout set in - could neither go up or try to get down - sheltering under a cliff overhang for several hours getting colder and colder. Luckily it finally stopped while still light and we were able to make our precarious way down 2000ft to safety. Pre mobile phones - no-one knew we were up there.

[@princessjen99]

Hindsight is always 20/20, that being said the fact that they had the more experienced guide go with the more experienced students makes no sense to me. Seems like it should’ve been the other way around

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

IF they absolutely had to split the group, yes... AND better than that, the MOST experienced hikers should've been split among the least, as well... That would give the most experienced guide a couple reasonably experienced hikers to designate duties upon, and the least experienced guide could even lean on the TOP students for help. She might've been reminded to keep control of the flares, or had someone to watch over them, instead of them getting lost in the snow... At the very least, they'd have let her know to keep trying to get the flares out, or find a signal mirror, a bright colored cloth or jacket, ANYTHING to raise visibility outside their half-assed bivouac... Never split up the group if you can avoid it. I don't care how badly personalities or experience differs... If you ever HAVE to, then do so very carefully... You have limited "experts" and few "advanced" human resources. In the field, every hot body around you is a resource. ...AND if you're ever lost, don't go stumbling around the countryside in the elements without a CERTAINTY of reaching a goal. NEVER EVER try it alone. No good will come of it. ;o)

[@princessjen99]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 Great response, well thought out and appreciated 😊

[@royfearn4345]

The less experienced group, and therefore the slowest, should have led, along with the more experienced leader.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@princessjen99 Thanks... I grew up in the mountains, where the weather changes on the drop of a hat... I've also been out in the wilds on my own... It's how we were taught... Glad you got something out of it, and I hope others pick up the tips as well... If it saves even one life, it was worth tossing together... ;o)

[@adde9506]

I don't know... taking inexperience teens on a multi-day wilderness hike out in winter sounds like an all around terrible idea to me. It makes no sense to me that this trip was allowed at all.

[@Isobibbel]

The smallest child survived with his fellows huddled around him to keep him warm. Imagine the survivors guilt with that!

[@thebrowns5337]

Depends on your outlook. Why feel guilt when you didn't ask for it but people chose to help you, no doubt fully understanding their predicament at that stage (they couldn't move)? Plus, huddling kept them all warm...better than staying apart, so they helped themselves as much as possible. Feeling guilt would not change the outcome at all. It would just waste the precious gift those helpers chose to give. Imagine they could see you - think they'd be miffed you were wasting their gift by feeling guilt. Feel gratitude...that is what they'd want. Sorrow too - but don't let that shape you in a negative way. Use it for something good. Change lives for the better. Always stay positive. Life sucks for all of us at times but you have to make the best of it. We all die at some point, no point spending the time alive feeling guilty, sad, sorry. Do what's right but have fun doing it.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

@@thebrowns5337 I doubt you can simply logic away something like survivor's guilt.

[@imjustcleaningvents1090]

Btw he became a pro canoeist after he grew up

[@synthsol5522]

Imagine being the last survivor covered in dead bodies just waiting to die yourself

[@grahamjarman]

guilt? i think u mean thankful

[@macflod]

I live near the Cairngorms and when i was 14 was skiing there with my school on a weekend trip. It was a sunny calm day but forecast to get bad later and they said they may close the ski slopes mid afternoon depending on the weather. By mid afternoon we still had the sun and We skied down the slopes and got the lift back up, but on the return up one time there was a cloud coming down Cairngorm mountain. On the way up the lift we entered the cloud and it was insane. My teacher was right next to me on the lift and the wind was so strong i was shouting at the top of my voice and he could barely hear me! We could not see anything more than about 2 m as it was complete white out and some people had no goggles. Without goggles you cannot even open your eyes as the wind blows ice particles into them making them freezing and it impossible to see. At the top the mountain patrols told us they closed the mountain and we were some of the last to be allowed up as the weather changed so rapidly it caught them out- to illustrate how fast this changed, when we started on the lift it was still ok but by the time we were half way up they closed the mountain. They were accounting for those of us still heading up on lifts and making sure we got back down but my friend fell hurting his leg just as we were about to ski down. I volunteered to wait with him and a ski patrol member while they got a skidoo to stretcher him down. After i skied down with the ski patrol guy slowly as we could see much and about half way down we dropped out of the cloud and it was sunny and calm again! It was insane how fast it changed and how big a contrast a few hundred meter made. I learned how fast it can turn very scary and i saw how these mountains can be deadly. I always tell people going into the higher and remote mountains to really consider it if in October to april and they are not so experienced and in summer still pack a bag with cold weather gear and shelter even if its bright sunshine at the bottom it can easily be below zero with the windchill at the top. Sadly people are still killed every year in Scotlands mountains. I think the mountains relatively low altitude gives a false sense of security. Its important to remember Scotland has a maritime climate and the weather can change extremely fast. If anyone is going into the mountains please monitor the forecasts but always be prepared for bad weather regardless of the forecast and let someone know your route and expected return time. It may seem like overkill but it could just save your life.

[@hubertdenise3100]

I went skiing in the Pyrenees when I was 13.Me,my dad, and my sister were going up to take the Panasonic route for the great view and long ride as it was the highest up, at over 3,000m.Well, we got up the first ski lift, then the second.However when we got up the 3rd, a thick snow storm cloud came in.By the time we got up it was nearly a white out.But we couldn’t take the lift down because there was none that allowed you too.We took the route, and several times it was near vertical.I crashed twice, and my sister almost went flying.Had fun but we called it a day after that.

[@adamlea6339]

People don't realise the Cairngorm plateau has an Arctic tundra climate, it is only a little over 2,000 miles from the North Pole.

[@nancyharman4795]

I'm American and had never heard of the Cairngorms until I watched this video. All of the comments here have given me such an education! Sad to think it all arose from a recounting of tragedy, but I'll never forget what I've learned tonight. 😺💕🐾

[@alangardner8596]

Speaking from experience having been stranded in a bothy for the night at 10,000 ft I think it is madness to have demolished it.

[@alangardner8596]

@Purgatory Maybe We wrapped in damp blankets in the refuge until dawn and when the sun warmed everything up we descended.

[@comeoutofthedark8910]

I'm with you, Alan. destroying existing resources because of what someone "may" do reeks of that special short-sightedness that government is famous for.

[@johannesbols57]

It's the UK, what do you expect? Reason?

[@DrJason-il7pb]

As a mountaineer myself - I'm beyond bewildered by the decision. "The shelter gives them something to aim for, so let's demolish it so their only option is to turn back no matter how far out they are"?? What a foolish mindset!

[@Badficwriter]

@@DrJason-il7pb Many many mountaineering disasters have this "we didn't want to turn back" mindset. If you're not prepared to live outdoors in horrid weather, don't leave civilization.

[@pickles3128]

Who the heck thought this was a good idea? 15-year-olds in waist-deep snow overnight? And then they demolished the emergency shelter the surviving group used...

[@RealBradMiller]

Can't have the people being TOO safe.

[@nicholasschroeder3678]

Made no sense to me either. "They pushed too far because they knew the shelter would be there. So let's just get rid of the shelters." Uhhh, I thought the Scots were famous for logic--Adam Smith, David Hume. Well, that was long ago.

[@flexygoo1295]

Yeah the idea of demolishing the shelters is baffling. It's the same as removing fire extinguishers from buildings so as not to encourage staying in a fiery building....a very british form of logic I just don't understand....

[@ajmatt574]

@@RealBradMiller I get the logic of why they demolished it, but it’s also extremely stupid logic. If all hiking groups start out from one place, just post a sign saying turn back if weather conditions worsen if you’re too far from the emergency shelter: don’t push forward. If they ignore that warning, then that’s on them.

[@Vid_Master]

@@nicholasschroeder3678 There are probably more variables not detailed in this video. Every shelter will require safety checks and need maintainence, so it could be due to cost, to me it would make sense to build more of these shelters... but there are probably 20 reasons for and against.

[@1JamesMayToGoPlease]

The thought of the larger kids surrounding the smaller one to try to keep him warm is heartbreaking, considering their fate. These were good kids...

[@Rhymelie]

Demolishing the shelters are not going to stop pig-headed hikers from pushing their limits, and this decision is massively dangerous. If they were worried about hikers pressing on for a distance deemed too far for safety, why did they not half that distance by adding another shelter inbetween? The one thing you can count on is that people will vastly overestimate their abilities, and now there are two less failsafes in place to save them from themselves.

[@ovni2295]

You're right. They're trying to dissuade people, but dissuasion never works in the long run. Better to prepare for an emergency than to assume your plan to prevent one is foolproof.

[@somedumbozzie1539]

I'll wager the ones who wanted to demolish them had never set foot out side a city, empty vessels make the loudest noise.

[@paddyjoe1884]

@@somedumbozzie1539 Actually there is a certain class of ramblers who are against shelters, bothies, paths and cairns. They feel it makes the landscape less "wild". This is why there are nearly no bolted routes or via ferrata in Scotland. Because this lot will go and cut the bolts!

[@DemstarAus]

There are still ashtrays in airplanes, because people are still going to smoke even if they're not allowed. I don't understand how making things less safe is going to keep more people more safe.

[@Erin-rg3dw]

@@ovni2295 Agreed, especially if it's an area where the weather can turn quickly. You can prepare for many things, but the weather dropping 30 degrees and a snowstorm is hard to escape. When I hiked Mt. Washington, even though it was July, I still brought light winter gear because the weather is known to turn drastically in a short period. Even the best laid plans can go awry.

[@phils4634]

I was stuck on Mt Snowdon when the forecast "clear weather" changed for the (very) worse during our descent back in the 1970's. Fortunately we'd planned for the very variable weather there and our 2-man tents provided more than adequate shelter overnight.

[@SecretSquirrelFun]

Wow, what an experience you had. Thanks for sharing your story 🙂🐿

[@aliceheatherlogan]

I'm so glad you made it through okay! It's really no joke how fast things can change. I've been lucky never have been caught in anything too bad when climbing

[@paulfloyd9258]

I think that you meant Yr Wyddfa.

[@elainesmith1200]

@@paulfloyd9258 thank you 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👍

[@lethallizard963]

*Yr Wyddfa. It’s not called Mt Snowdon.

[@-meinjuaco-6439]

Honestly one of the hardest of your videos to take in, in my opinion. Hearing such things happening to kids is painful, genuinely soul breaking

[@tigereyemusic]

This was used as a story to try and disuade children and unprepared/untrained people from venturing out in winter when I was growing up in the Scottish highlands. Even when we got older and more experienced, we stuck to the months of May-August for any longer treks, and were very well prepared for even the shorter Treks outside those months. Sadly, it’s still an annual occurrence that people get stuck unprepared out in the Grampian Mountains. The number of people that get pulled off Ben Nevis by helicopter in December, some even without hiking books, is ridiculous.

[@ramonamcmahon3248]

Couldn't agree more, once up Ben Nevis, and two women in gold strappy shoes came past me, It was late October.

[@whiteeaglewarrior]

Used to work on reception in a hotel at Fort William. We had to get people going up Ben Nevis to fill in forms of next of kin ect in case they got into difficulty or worse

[@BOOMAlHazard]

As someone rather inexperienced in tougher trips, my family and me only went up to the Snowgoose restaurant - that was totally enough for my Mum. Which is fine. Knowing your limits is a good thing, no need to push until someone might get hurt. I'm regularly hiking in the palatinate forest, which is nice and relaxed. Yet still folks go missing or get into trouble all the time.

[@Scherzkeks4104]

Here in Switzerland we regularly get foreign tourists that attempt to go on alpine hikes in flip-flops and one layer of clothing. Crazy how unprepared people can be.

[@davidjames2145]

@@ramonamcmahon3248 I've seen much the same thing. And a young couple approaching me at a Munro cairn to ask to look at my map. 3,000ft up, no map and no compass. Now we have people thinking their bloody iPhone is all they need. Natural Selection is alive and well.

[@Traderjoe]

Demolishing the shelter is like eliminating toilets to discourage people from venturing too far from home.

[@SoramimiKeiki]

Or demolishing hospitals to prevent people from becoming ill or injured. The logic ...

[@robokill387]

He explains it in a misleading way, the shelters weren't good shelters, they were badly designed death traps that had been installed illegally and frequently became completely buried and unusable in heavy snow, a wide range of experienced hikers and experts agreed that they should have been removed.

[@watchingitallhere]

Thank you for the insight good to know.

[@deprofundis3293]

@@robokill387 thank you, exactly

[@raerohan4241]

@@robokill387 In that case, they should have been replaced by proper shelters instead of being removed entirely

[@ExplodingPelicans]

Amazing to hear you talk about this. Just last week, my dad and I were hiking along a similar route (Ben MacDhui to Cairn Gorm) as part of a camping trip, and he told me about this incident. He even pointed out to me where the Curran bothy had been. He was ages with these kids and a keen mountaineer even then, so it was interesting to hear his recollection, then to hear this. The mountains are extraordinary, particularly the Cairngorms, and I would encourage anyone to visit and explore these incredible landscapes. But please, above all else, take care of yourself: there is no such thing as being overly cautious. (And on a lighter note, take midge spray if you go to the Cairngorms. You will need it.)

[@Rogue_Leader]

ALWAYS walk to the speed of the slowest - everyone has to get home.

[@WangleLine]

This!!

[@SpicyTexan64]

Always walk the speed of how fast you need to walk to survive.

[@PoptartParasol]

@Gi Gi I unexpectedly laughed at 'it's a casual hike, not an escape attempt', while probably not intentional, thank you for giving me a laugh after such a grim story

[@baronvonhoughton]

If you eat the slowest then everyone gets a warm meal and the group speeds up

[@FeedScrn]

This is what happened, at least for Katherine's group. It's the usual scenario.

[@EKGrant]

Im a girl guide leader and took a group of 30 girls to the cairngorms for a 5 mile hike and adventure weekend just before lockdown in March last year. Our group was supervised by serving members of the RAF, Navy and even Gurkhas! That's what you call prepared! I couldn't imagine taking young people somewhere like that without a good team all round. Such an awful tragedy. Lots of my family went to Ainsle Park and I'm so glad none went on this trip!

[@chasitydeanna4861]

The kids all huddled around the smallest one of the group, and he managed to survive… What great empathy humans are capable of 💗

[@jamsstar2010]

Pack survival

[@ShadowXII]

I've been survivor-level cold, and it definitely does affect your thinking. It makes you into an idiot who refuses to move.

[@deprofundis3293]

Same...it's pretty terrifying once your senses start to come back.

[@John72TB]

Yep. Fell through ice and had to walk almost a mile home soaked to my armpits. Felt like the tin man without any oil by the time I got home.

[@sirridesalot6652]

@Tip Toe That's a fantastic way to speed up the onset of hypothermia.

[@bmfg100]

what really got me was that no one from the more experienced group attached themselves to the group with minors (ie people under 18) they all just assumed the second group would be fine. There should always be someone with actual, proper climbing experience among a group of the inexperienced.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

In any "serious" outdoor activity, ALWAYS "pamper and cottle" the noob's... It's why they're NOOB'S!!! Look, "noob" or "green-horn" or "newbie" are NOT derogatory. Sure, there are seasoned experts out there who resent being designated "Noob babysitter", BUT those kinds of people NEED to be reminded that we ALL OF US started out as noob's, and some older, seasoned expert spent time with US under their wings, cottling and pampering us along the way until we got it figured out. I can hop on a 1000 cc bike and tear-ass around a track at 180+ mph, too... It's not my favorite thing anymore, but it used to be. I like hitting the winding state-routes at my pace and seeing the countryside... AND I have a 650 (recent buy) that I've already put 1000 miles on. BUT when I take noob's with me, I'm in the BACK of the pack... AND I let them have their space. We have a talk about "group conduct" and signals, and I make sure EVERYONE knows where we're headed and the route... That way, if someone struggles, or falls... I'm back there to come upon them. I'm "Battlefield Medic" qualified from the U.S. Navy... SO I can even patch up a sucking chest wound in a pinch... with some tape and a plastic wrapper... That's just how it's done. Let them have the ILLUSION of "being in charge"... AND I like to have at least a couple reasonably experienced and advanced trained riders dotted through the middle of the group... If and ass it separates, there's more than "just little old me" who can make sure everyone able actually GETS to each designation... AND someone else is out there to stop the "faster bunch" from splitting a stop before the last rider shows up or gets accounted for (in case someone just took a bad turn)... Personally, I just don't much like group rides... BUT someone took me under his wing when I was a "dumbass kid" back in the day. I was (VERY) lucky apparently. If I don't do my part to pass the knowledge and seasoning on for the next generation, this whole sport and craft that I love is going to DIE when I do. It's no different for hiking, camping, fishing, outdoorsmanship in general... ;o)

[@bmfg100]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 I absolutely agree with you.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@bmfg100 Thanks... Every place I went on a "kids' camping trip" or similar, and there were almost always "junior instructors" or the like... They ALWAYS put at least 3 out of 9 SENIOR campers with them... to help out in case the instructor needed it... Anyways... thanks. I try. ;o)

[@bmfg100]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 I remember them doing that at summer camp when we went bloody canoeing in the local lake. how the more experienced group didn't get nailed with negligence is beyond me other than blaming the time period

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@bmfg100 Most of them were kids, and even the adult was young, likely too inexperienced himself to be considered much more than a kid... even if he was an adult... Authorities probably considered that they had a rough night and figured that finding out half their collective group wasn't going to make it was probably punishment enough... That kind of trauma is a scar for life... They'd likely talked about going back out to backtrack for the others... and the leader had assured everyone that "they'll be headed to a different place with a shorter distance to travel, they'll be fine." He'll beat himself up probably the rest of his days... ;o)

[@mrroderick6110]

I love these Fascinating Horror short documentaries. They are not too long but not too short that the main details don't get covered. For me it is also an encouragement to do further research and find out more. This particular story about the 1971 Cairngorm disaster is one I have looked at more. There is a newspaper interview with the young lad that survived which was made in 2021 and it tells us that the second leader Catherine went to Canada and has never been heard from since. The guilt must weigh so heavily on survivors, particularly if they are group leaders. As another person commented here, the decision by the leader to split the groups up and the let the strongest group go first was absolutely and utterly fatal for the weaker climbers. Keep these great documentaries coming. Thanks.

[@frog6714]

Its amazing to hear stories about the Cairngorms, even if the story is horrible

[@maxtew6521]

I'm not going to pretend I was familiar with the place prior to watching this. Seems neat.

[@MrFrazzles]

This is so weird...I'm literally staying in the Cairngorms right now, and when I was here last year I walked with my family up Ben Macdui, across the plateau to Cairn Gorm and down...pretty much the same route in reverse

[@SpicyTexan64]

@@maxtew6521 Seems neat? Death is so cool, huh?

[@maxtew6521]

@@SpicyTexan64 No, like a national wildlife reserve and park seems neat.

[@suspicioustumbleweed4760]

Fascinatingly horrible

[@WobblesandBean]

I can't even imagine the despair those kids must have felt, so close to salvation, yet being unable to do anything but watch as the rescue team just walked right on by...

[@tedthesailor172]

It's incredible to think that a group of inexperienced school kids were venturing up on the Cairngorms with bad weather forecast, no matter who was guiding them, and that they had no emergency rations, no camping stove to make a hot meal, not even a flashlight or a whistle - which each person should've had - just one pack of flares that couldn't be found. This was a disaster waiting to happen...

[@RachelAnn]

Right! In those conditions, they should have each been carrying a days worth of food and a whistle/flare/flashlight.

[@brians654]

Never set off on any kind of expedition into the wild without a whistle. Simplest and most effective safety measure you can have. The first search party would surely have heard a whistle where her voice was inaudible.

[@BennyLlama39]

I know it's probably unsafe (like being in a snowstorm isn't) but why didn't what's-her-face keep her flares in her coat or something? They'd be right there instead of buried in the snow.

[@ah7027]

@@BennyLlama39 she may have already lit used them and the snow had just covered them already. either that or you have to remember the cold would have messed with their minds.

[@pamelaraney4654]

That’s how Rose was found. Titanic movie.

[@TheQuantumPotato]

Yeah, plus if you’re shouting for help you’ll lose your voice quite quickly. Whereas with a whistle you can signal for help pretty much indefinitely.

[@sandybell4913]

Thing is back then it probably would’ve been a metal whistle, and presuming it’s not buried under snow, it’d surely be filled with it (which would be hard to get out normally, even less with hypothermia). Also, at that temperature the whistle probably would have stuck to skin and lips no, and having a clear mouth to drink is probably better than a whistle surely. Also, it would have probably been to quiet still.

[@inkyguy]

Always carry a loud whistle with you. Yelling will carry your voice only very short distance and will tire you quickly. A good whistle, on the other hand, will carry over a great distance and can help pierce interfering noise, and it requires relatively little energy or effort. Even a relatively poor child’s whistle is far more effective than yelling. A coach/referee’s whistle or large emergency whistle has always been essential safety equipment on my backpacking trips. They are cheap, compact and they can make the difference between life and death.

[@stephiebagley211]

The fact that the others huddled around the smaller one to keep him warm was sooo sweet. They didn’t think about themselves only, that’s the humanity I wanna see now

[@TransKidRevolution]

🙄

[@stephiebagley211]

@@TransKidRevolution stay mad

[@XaviMacBash]

"The U.k is a place of few wildernesses" Have u been to Birmingham at 3am?

[@caroleevans3553]

Unnecessary comment

[@XaviMacBash]

@@caroleevans3553 just making a joke

[@clonbanincork]

@@caroleevans3553 Newcastle too.

[@ImperialistRunningDo]

Wilderness or wasteland?

[@yeoisa]

@@clonbanincork and Manchester

[@apkelly01]

In February 2018, a group of 40 people plus 2 guides, attempted to climb Ireland's highest mountain, Carrauntoohil. A 14km hike up and down Carrauntoohil can take an experienced climber 6 hours....it took me 9 hours and that was in summer. So the 42 started up Carrauntoohil but they hit bad weather, snowy tracks, darkness was setting in and the climbers were ill-equipped fir the climb, some wearing trainers. They called Kerry Mountain rescue for help. While getting them off the mountain, they discovered a woman injured with a head wound, on The Devil's Ladder. She wasn't part of the original group but a tourist who had attempted to climb the mountain solo. She was very lucky to be discovered, as she wouldn't have survived the night.

[@shannonmc7090]

Hope she bought a lottery ticket.

[@L.C.Sweeney]

@Daft Donkeys cool bro. 😎 where do you live? Arseholeland?

[@boldanabrasevic3020]

@@L.C.Sweeney I heard they have really big holes there

[@Kitsudote]

Dude, this video (and the fact that I'm listening the spooky stories for the last 6 months) made me realize you should absolutely do these as well! Your storytelling and voice are so ripe for these 🖤

[@MidnightDarkness666]

One detail you missed is that the children's parents had no idea they were going up the mountains. They thought they were just going to the Laganlia Centre

[@itsjustlaurel1531]

One more horrific mistake made.

[@russellfitzpatrick503]

Frightening! That the parents themselves were unaware until the tragedy had already unfolded

[@MidnightDarkness666]

Exactly. Imagine the grief.

[@ThereIsOnlyTheOnePJC]

Those bothies should have been upgraded, not demolished.

[@samhouston1288]

The idea that you should get rid of something that is potentially lifesaving just because SOME people might not use it correctly is beyond stupid. I wonder how many lives those shelters have saved over the years.

[@MarsJenkar]

@@samhouston1288 They likely saved the lives of the part of the group that reached it, for one. They should have made more of them, not less.

[@LoriCurl]

Do we have those in America, I wonder??

[@samhouston1288]

@@LoriCurl In some places, yes. For example, the Bering Land Bridge National Preserve has a few emergency cabins in case visitors encounter storms or otherwise adverse conditions.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

The only net benefit from the review is seeing to it that "Leaders" on hikes of children are certified to an agreed upon standard... You're ALWAYS going to have a few people who push themselves harder than they should. It may not result in some huge tragedy like this, but over the time, any GAINS in emergency aid is worth the investment... I'd suggest instead of demolition, upgrade the standards... A signal light or phone added to each bothie would've been relatively cheap to install and maintain, and would expedite the odd occasions any other hike (no matter the group or organization) runs into trouble... ;o)

[@dumbpossum8461]

The fact all the other kids had huddled around the youngest and saved their life over theres made me tear up. it warms my heart that even in such an unfortunate situation, where these children where so fearful, but still, in all the fear, and even with their slowed thinking, they chose to ensure they gave that kid as much warmth as possible and saved their life.

[@andrewkuebler4335]

I mean never split up on a mountain, that's just common sense right there.

[@LunaHeartnet]

Hiking alone is a quick way to get into serious trouble.

[@nlwilson4892]

It is very common to split groups into more able and less able but usually with the lesser group taking an easier route. However, there is no reason to do that and then follow the same route, it should never have been done with children and so few adults and no way on earth should it have been done in bad weather.

[@max10sheets01]

I believe that group size is supposed to be min 4, max 7. Minimum size allows for 2 to go for help and 1 to stay put with a casualty. Going above 7 makes it possible to lose 1 and not notice.

[@underwaterdick]

I disagree, in large groups it is sometimes very important to split up. If they had not split up, there is a huge possibility that the whole lot could have perished. Yes, the opposite is true, they may have been spotted for rescue faster as a larger group. But larger rescues take longer. The issue here is the ability of the groups. When you split up, it is important to mix speed and ability, having all your stronger more experienced people in the advanced party is a problem. If you put some of them in the second party, they may eventually catch up with and be able to assist the first group. But if they don't, you still have the required experience and ability to keep a slower group safe. In the Cairngorms, you want to get as many to safety as quickly as you can. I have witnessed multiple rescues on various peaks and ridges. I have also got myself in trouble with changing conditions. You have to remember with rescues, that although helicopters can lift people to safety from some point, depending on conditions, quite often when rescues happen, despite a helicopter being used, some of the party have to walk out of trouble with the rescue volunteers anyway. The smaller a group needing rescue, the better.

[@DerekScottBland]

How about just "never go up on a mountain" as common sense? I seriously do not understand these mentally ill people that not only have to put their lives in extreme danger for fun, but insist on dragging children along with them on their suicide run.

[@HuttserGreywolf]

I'd like to imagine that the the narrator is the crow in the channel's icon. A calm yet subtly eerie tone when talking about death, feels like the perfect voice for a morbid corvid

[@MichaelStubbs]

It's said that Corvids are pretty intelligent, after all. Some of them have been seen using basic tools to achieve goals, others have been starting KZbin channels and getting on that bird hustle.

[@miked7212]

Me too!

[@tadhgmcelligott3693]

Morbid corvid makes a great band name

[@evilempryss]

"Morbid Corvid" would be a cool name for a death metal band! 😁

[@Peannlui]

'Nevermore' quoth the raven.

[@FloozieOne]

I love your episodes about the "small" disasters that one would never have heard of otherwise. The major news and videos only report on large incidents where many people die and ignore the lesser ones as not being "newsworthy". Thank you for ignoring this and telling us about these situations that were so horrifying for the participants and their families.

[@anonymoususer4412]

Thank you for what you do, actual short documentaries and not trying too hard creepy repetitive "documentaries". Seriously I always drop everything to watch! Oh and if I could request something: Could you pleas cover Aloha Airlines flight 243?

[@darkerSolstice]

Is that the one where the roof came off? There's a few good aviation channels that have done that story, but I'd love to see FH's take on it.

[@anonymoususer4412]

@@darkerSolstice yeah, exactly that one

[@hirisk761]

I remember when that happened! how that 737 stayed in the air was amazing!

[@adonaiyah2196]

I don't think I can take any more its too depressing

[@YeahNo]

@@adonaiyah2196 it’s actually a miracle story. The only person lost was CB Lansing a flight attendant. Although many were injured the plane landed safely.

[@manueldelush9716]

This is my home from home, every winter I spend most of it up in Aviemore snowboarding the Cairngorms. People really underestimate the weather up there. I've seen winds of over 100mph appear within an hour of good weather. And the plateau is so vast and flat and predominantly all above 900m above sea level, that getting lost in poor weather is an easy feat

[@angelofdusk13]

Catherine is a goddamn hero. Imagine walking, then crawling in snow until you literally collapse. And she was STILL able to tell them how to find the kids.

[@epicthy]

@@jdhitshine That may be so, but if she hadn’t pushed that far they probably would’ve found 6 dead instead of 5

[@emmacook5286]

i think Ben was more at fault - he devised the plan and was the qualified mountaineer.

[@TGIFjuuustkidding]

@@jdhitshine She did rescue someone though, so by your definition, she’s a hero. It was only one, but a life was still saved because of her.

[@jdhitshine]

@@TGIFjuuustkidding , she rescued herself. Even the 18 yr old assistant died along with the 5 children. You don’t take a group kids hiking, have all of them freeze to death, then get called a hero. Catherine, 21 at the time, doesn’t consider herself a hero for this tragic accident.

[@sam-psonsmith9951]

So, if i take a bunch of kids out to sea, ignore safety regulations and common sense, then end up sinking the boat so everyone is drowning now. I am a good swimmer and make it back to shore. Does alerting the coast guard about the kids drowning really make me a hero? Sure i was swimming for hours and barely made it back to shore, but you could argue i did that to save my own ass. Does calling for help and telling them about the kids and where to find them really make me a hero? To me the hero is the adult that brings all of those kids back home save and sound. because they used common sense and turned back around when the weather shifted.... To endanger teenagers and have them die on your watch makes you a hero?

[@KimdraStBiryukova]

I would like to point out that the UK having uncommon areas of true wilderness does not necessarily mean that that is the reason people are inexperienced. I live a 45-minute drive from the Rocky Mountains in Canada and hardly anybody I know knows basic hiking etiquette let alone safety. Other than that, another great video, and another one I'd never heard of! You're doing awesome work!

[@FlexBeanbag]

kzbin.infoBmc9NFfhx74?feature=share

[@ZGryphon]

Mm. I was born, raised, and still live in the central highlands of Maine, and I know basically nothing about any of that stuff. It's just not my scene. Just because people happen to live near the woods doesn't mean they're necessarily prepared to go into them (or even interested in doing so).

[@ghosttowntomato]

45 minute drive is a long distance for many-- not everyone is privledged as you, Queen Kimberly

[@le13579]

@@ghosttowntomato That makes no sense. In the US and other large countries, 45mins is close. I've known "privileged" and "unprivileged" people say the same. Maybe it would be privileged/insensitive if she had said it was a short helicopter ride...

[@inconnu4961]

@@ZGryphon Do be careful traversing the wild woods of Maine; the Loup Garou lives there!

[@Drew_Eden]

We had a great outdoor club at my school. I was lucky enough to go on two winter weekends in Glencoe in 1981. We were the first school kids in Edinburgh to be allowed on a winter trek since the Ainslie Park disaster. We were only allowed to go after a lot of training and were finally allowed after being given the nod by one of our teachers who was an ex military PT instructor.

[@scottsanburn204]

I really can't figure out how tearing down those,emergency shelters make things safer - Regardless I am glad that no further deaths occurred after this.

[@lastofthe4horsemen279]

If there is no where to go in inclement situations one would turn back to civilization instead of pressing on to an inadequate shelter

[@underwaterdick]

It is a 50/50 logic. Having a shelter can be a lifesaver, but its true that people are then inclined to "push on". The benefit of a shelter which was not mentioned is that it gives a good point for rescue teams to start a search from if the rough location of people are known. Because it is the sensible place to head for when seeking shelter.

[@lilheinz9496]

@@lastofthe4horsemen279 yea but they are supposed to be for emergency only correct? Can’t not have emergency protocols just cause some people will not be in actual emergencies when using the emergency service.

[@korbell1089]

Lets take a bunch of inexperienced kids on a long hike in winter, and just to make it more interesting, lets split the group up and send the most experienced ahead. What could go wrong?

[@nashsmith3005]

The would be a terrifying situation for an adult, unimaginably terrifying for those poor children. I must commend them. Even in such a dark, cold situation they huddled together and kept the smallest among them warm. I think of them as heroes very good on them for doing what they could.

[@Overlord99762]

There's one vital piece of equipment I'd say Catherine was missing that could've saved more lives: A survival whistle It's often overshadowed by just about everyone in terms of camping/bushcraft etc, and in cases like this, it's when it should be used

[@waindalton8575]

Catherine's group carried flares but "lost" them. Catherine herself evidently saw the rescuers' flares but couldn't signal back for that reason.

[@Overlord99762]

@@waindalton8575 But flares can go out and require a bit more effort to ignite, a whistle doesn't need too much energy so long as you're breathing

[@madness3369]

@@Overlord99762 The sound of the howling wind would've drowned that out.

[@Overlord99762]

@@madness3369 Or carried its sound

[@DiZoSoMom]

There’s a reason that’s one of the “six essentials” to always pack, as taught by the Scouts. My kiddos always take their whistles.

[@QT5656]

Heartbreaking. This incident is so important for highlighting how treacherous weather can be and how important adequate preparation is.

[@lauragoodspeed7044]

These poor children deserved so much better. Sounds like just the perfect storm of mistakes and not thinking culminated in a terrible end for them. Very interesting stuff.

[@bjoink-yh4hr]

i don't understand why they demolished two shelters, if i was in a blizzard id much rather go forwards 50 feet instead of going backwards 500 feet. you're going to have to travel in bad weather no matter what, might as well head for a small shelter area in front of you

[@bjoink-yh4hr]

@Blue Flu true, it could be more dangerous if it's further than it'd be to just turn back

[@paulmallery6719]

Have more and better shelters

[@ZenzeroCAM]

As an experience hiker and living in the Cairngorms I agree with the demolition. It gives a false sense of security and in white out conditions or even just cloudy conditions on the plateau the last thing you want to do is head further on to it looking for a tiny shelter in a featureless expanse. If you miss that you’re so far into the Cairngorms that you’re dead. However, if you think “this is too much” all you need to do is retrace your steps and head back on the bearings that you took and you’ll make it down off the mountains into at least the trees or closer to rescue. It’s either shooting at a tiny target and missing completely and dying or turning back and aiming for a large target that is safer.

[@NinjaTyler]

The shelter they were headed to was infamous for being buried in the snow that they died in, to the point you couldn't find the shelter even knowing where it was supposed to be. The part of the mountain those shelters were on was exposed with harsh winds, meaning the longer you're up there the deadly it is, if weather starts turning bad you head back down the mountain, but because they knew of shelter they pressed on, but 500 feet back down would have been better as even just 50 feet in pure white out conditions might as well be 50 miles since you lose all sense of direction. In the antarctic a research station had a facility away from the main facility only by some 200 feet, and conditions would get so bad they had a chain connected across the buildings so you couldn't get lost, and yet somehow someone still ended up getting lost and wander off never to be seen again And the other reason not to build new and more shelters is apparently the ecosystem is very fragile up there and that construction could badly damage it, it's to the point those chair lifts and other ways up are shut down now to keep foot traffic down so only experienced hikers head up the mountain to help drastically cut back on littering but it still happens at least around the shelters that are still around the lower areas of the mountains.

[@bjoink-yh4hr]

@@ZenzeroCAM i appreciate the pov of someone who's experienced the area, i understand now. thank you for sharing!

[@Twizzledoc187]

Whenever I need a little “downer” for the day I always tune in to watch these. I’m always fascinated with these stories.

[@johngavin1175]

Nice screen name,but it depends on what part of Florida you live in...

[@june.hunter]

omg I cried the moment you mentioned their names. it was soo heartbreaking. Rest In Peace, young souls..🙏💔💔

[@CastSenpai]

Not so fun fact: Ben, the 23 year old leader of the first group, was killed some years later hiking in the Himalayas.

[@sophierobinson2738]

😔

[@NinjaTyler]

Karma got him

[@mickmegson6241]

He doesn't seem cut out for that life

[@Gabriel-wn6oc]

@@mickmegson6241 He never had the makings of a varsity hiker.

[@markware85]

1978

[@MegAndJas]

As a 17 year old at the time this happened I feel for the loss of their young lives, the extra 50 years I’ve had that they didn’t 😞

[@nekflyfishing8166]

I know that feeling.

[@ex-engineer6657]

Thanks for sharing this story of tragedy and warning. My father was born and raised in the High Sierra mountains of eastern California. After returning from the Vietnam war, he guided many family and Boy Scout backpacking trips into the mountains, with only one incident. A bear came through our camp one night, apparently attracted by my cousin's stinky feet! With one swipe, the bear ripped open the tent, sleeping bag, and Charlie's foot. I don't remember if there were screams or scandal, but the bear left immediately. Excellent first aid was applied, including my Aunt sewing his foot up with a small kit we carried for minor clothing repairs. Charlie was then carried to the Tunnel Meadow ranger station on an improvised stretcher and flown out to a hospital. Many other stories can be told about that trip, but suffice to say that the Scout motto to "Be Prepared" is not in vain.

[@danielmckinney1305]

Thank you so much for covering my recommendation. This tragedy is absolutely haunting and I'm so glad you, and your friend, have been able to bring it to a wider audience.

[@gayburrito5353]

Can you make a video on the Anaris accident? It is the worst mountain accident in swedish history.

[@ricojes]

Apparently that incident provided some clues as to how the Dyatlov incident might have happened.

[@scolipede491]

send him an email at the address in the description, he's very receptive :)

[@suyen4999]

The Anaris incident provided some valuable insight as to what might have happened to the Dyatlov Pass hikers. At least Anaris had one survivor who lived to tell the story of what happened.

[@thevintagecatnsw]

I hadn't heard of the Anaris incident. Going to look that up now. Thanks 🙂

[@kevinmhadley]

I remember this incident in the news. I live about three hours drive from Mt. Washington in New Hampshire. It is the deadliest mountain in America as it has some of the worst weather in the world an many people underestimate how dangerous it actually is.

[@SadisticSenpai61]

Maybe it's just cuz I live in the Midwestern US and I've seen plenty of blizzards with whiteout conditions, but the idea of destroying shelters because ppl will try to use them in emergencies just seems really stupid to me. The reason ppl would head for a shelter over going back is because they're closer to the shelter in the first place. And when it's whiteout conditions, it's extremely easy to get turned around and lost - especially if you don't have any kind of guide markers or ways of knowing which way you're going. Frankly, they should never have split up the group in the first place. But if they were going to split up, they should have put the more experienced guide with the less experienced group - cuz that's the group that's most likely to run into trouble. Credit to Catherine tho - she persevered and managed to get help. If she hadn't, it's likely they all would have died.

[@abbym9954]

I suggest you look into the "Dutchman's Curve" train wreck of 1918- an accident in Nashville, TN, that stayed on record as the worst train accident in US history for a very long time. I work near the site and I always love hearing about it's history, and it seems right up your ally.

[@russellcalvert]

I visited the Cairngorms area several times as a teenager in the 1970s, but have never heard this story before! This is a good presentation of the events (except for the rather dubious introduction), but would have been even better with some animated maps showing the routes, shelters, etc.

[@ninafromnorway]

Such a tragic story. I've been watching your renditions for a while and this is the first one I've watched while "cutting onions". Those poor children, their families and the leaders. My heart goes out to them.

[@Ozymandias1]

They should have paired the more experienced guide with the inexperienced group and the more experienced group with the lesser experienced guide.

[@jic1]

They shouldn't have split into two groups in the first place.

[@kathyjones1576]

@@jic1 that's what I was thinking. They knew the weather forecast, and went anyway. If they had stayed together, with three guides, they might have survived.

[@davedenoon]

No they should've all stuck together. One expedition, one group. Rule 1.0 in the mountains. Or organise two completely separate and independent expeditions with each tailored to the group members' experience. Notwithstanding, of course, the fact that this trip ought never to have gone ahead in the first place given the scope of the hike, existing weather conditions and the forecast of this deteriorating further. The die was cast the moment they set off, sadly. I've hiked in the Cairngorms and summited Cairngorm on a lovely summer's evening. It's easy in benign conditions, misleadingly so. But she has teeth - my god she has teeth and she will bear them even in perfect conditions as the weather can change from clear blue skies one minute to almost zero visibility a few minutes later from absolutely nowhere. She demands respect and all preparations must be thorough and considered before setting off - even in perfect summer conditions. Prepare for the worst in all Scotland's mountains at all times. They might not be as high as those in other countries but they all demand equal respect. The biggest danger is that they can look so innocent and easy to climb - and sometimes they are - which can give a massive false sense of security. I've lost count of the number of people I've encountered in the mountains with no rucksack, no spare clothes, no equipment of any kind and even wearing such ridiculous attire as jeans and trainers. Even in winter and in snow conditions. You simply wouldn't do this in the Alps, the Rockies or the Himalaya. Don't do it in Scotland either.

[@roilresj413]

I'm a Scottish school teacher and I need at least 3 other in-school staff members to take my P6 class to the neighbouring park. Outside staff members such as play-leaders, adventure guides etc are not counted in staff ratios. The whole idea of sending a group of 15 year olds off into the Cairngorms with three camp workers who had nothing to do with the school, who were barely older than the kids, and who obviously didn't have a clue about the dangers of the hike they had planned is unbelievable. Sometimes risk assessments and head counts and staff ratios are annoying but my god am I grateful for them. You don't cut corners or take risks when you're responsible for children.

[@MichaelNealeYT]

There aren't many places in the UK that is just untouched and ready to be explored. I never really thought about that until this video and it's a little sad

[@stlvn6363]

There are a lot more in Scotland because it is so mountainous

[@cashkitty3472]

Yes there are. Suggest you travel more

[@MichaelNealeYT]

@@cashkitty3472 there really isn't. Most land is owned and the park land and land owned by trusts aren't untouched or for really exploring because they're covered in set dirt pathways

[@stlvn6363]

@@MichaelNealeYT I mean…. Have you been up to the highlands of Scotland? There are countless places of natural beauty

[@MichaelNealeYT]

@@stlvn6363 I haven't but I would love to take a trip up there at some point because it sounds beautiful