The Carlingford Line, The Forgotten Extension, and The Uncrossable Zone

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Hey all! I just reached 1000 subscribers 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳!! I’ll be making a 1000 subs special Q&A video next, so feel free to comment any questions you have about me, my channel, or about city planning/infrastructure in general!! Anyways, just wanna address some things from the video that didn’t quite make the cut (as it is this is my longest video so far haha): - The Carlingford Line technically opened in two parts; Clyde to Camellia in 1888, and Camellia to Carlingford in 1896. Telopea didn’t actually open with the initial line, instead opening in 1925. - Initially, different routes for the Parramatta Light Rail were proposed. The Carlingford Line was to be converted all the way to Dundas, before the light rail diverted towards Eastwood and then to Macquarie Park, making use of the decades-old Eastwood County Road reservation (check out my Eastwood video for more on that route). I mentioned in this video that extending the light rail from Carlingford to Epping would not be feasible. However, extending it instead from Dundas to Eastwood and then Macquarie Park would be possible, as there is more road space and green corridors in this area due to the unbuilt County Road. Granted, it would still be hard - many roads in the Eastwood area are too narrow - which is probably why the path of least resistance was chosen instead. The Eastwood-Macquarie Park route would have actually been a very ideal route, and technically it could still happen, although I personally doubt it will be any time soon, which is the main reason I didn’t mention it in the video. Maybe in another video! - As I mentioned, I live really close to the former Carlingford station...so why did I never use it? Well, obviously because the line wasn’t very good. But on top of that, by luck I also live very close to the Beecroft station on the Northern line; it’s about the same distance to both. So I use that line instead. I really do mean it when I say the Carlingford line was quite the tragedy of a line. I went to high school in the area, and the line was quite the meme amongst all of my friends. Next to no one caught the train to Parramatta; they took the bus instead. - I think that this video could be seen by some as a criticism of the Parramatta Light Rail - many have criticised it before me, after all - but I don’t want it to come across completely as that. It definitely isn’t my preferred choice, sure, and I would’ve loved to see the Carlingford Line extended to Epping, but the light rail is better than nothing. If I had to choose between doing nothing to the line and converting it to a light rail, I’d choose light rail. Getting to Parramatta from my area (yes...I live in the uncrossable zone...) has always been a nightmare, but because of the light rail’s duplication and more direct route, I really do think it will help with that. I’m looking forward to its opening next year. Thanks for watching!!

[@peterelvery]

Very clear and informative. Thanks for your effort and for the extra comments. I lived in Carlingford from 1963 till 1978 and only ever caught the train for a few months during 1975 when I worked in Rydalmere. The reason the line was built in the first place was to transport produce from the market gardens around Carlingford and Dundas into the city markets. This is why many of the original stations are located with little thought given to passenger traffic. Telopea was an exception. As you say, it was opened in 1925 (by my grandmother Eva Rumsey as it happens - after much lobbying from her father, Herbert Rumsey, and other prominent locals) precisely to coincide with the subdivision of agricultural land for housing.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Thank you! Yes...that does sound like a good reason why the stations were poorly located. Very interesting to hear that someone in your family opened the Telopea station!

[@thepenguin2602]

waoh good job dude, camera distance is about right now

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Isn't that you?

[@roonzau]

Here are some questions. 1) Why do successive governments make so many mistakes. e.g. Carlingford-Epping missing link, All Highways ending in T intersections (admittedly some have been fixed) - I'm thinking M4 finishing at Strathfield, F6 finishing at Sutherland, F1 - Wahroonga, 2) What happened to the station at Woollahra (apparently an influential radio DJ got it cancelled!!) 3) Station density on Metro west is 1/2.7km - one of the lowest in the world. Why? No station at Rozelle, Leichhardt, Silverwater and Rosehill etc. No station for seven kilometres, between White Bay and Five Dock???? Is that nimby? 4) Why do governments cancel each others projects e.g. metro by Keneally, Carlingford-Epping by Costa etc. How do we get bipartisan support for proper infrastructure? 5) What's your name, education, university degree? how did you get interested in Sydney's planning? Plans for the channel and future content? 6) Why don't we build elevated highways like in US, China, etc. Why don't we build clover leafs like US etc? 7) What really happened to the worlds biggest tram network? 8) What is the right balance for a metro between speed, station density and interchanges.

[@foreignparticle1320]

I used to live in Epping, and would walk to Carlingford occasionally. Always wondered why on earth they weren't linked by the existing Carlingford rail line when it was so close... would have made getting to Paramatta much quicker than having to pivot at Strathfield. Now I know!

[@oufukubinta]

It takes about an hour to walk from Epping to Carlingford and vice-versa. I know from experience. It seems like a short distance because it's just a straight line, but it's pretty far and there are steep hills to walk

[@K_TV99]

yeah now you can only take the heavily congested 550 bus or the 546. Sad.

[@brad4013]

From memory the Epping to Chatswood section run way over budget due to residents at Lane Cove insisting that the line be tunnelled under Lane Cove River as opposed to a bridge. This decision resulted in no station at UTS Kuring-gai and no money left to compete the line to Parramatta.

[@AheadMatthewawsome]

Eventually, the University closed and moved everything to the Ultimo. The whole ECRL was a disaster from the start, and we STILL face the consequences ever since!

[@pacomarveeny9640]

Might I add it wasn’t only Lane Cove residents, it was a large group who also fought for no more roadways to be built through Lane Cove National Park after the M2 Motorway. The state government at the time thought “well this is a railway, surely nobody would say anything” and they were very wrong.

[@tikasvtec]

That is correct

[@Ken-er9cq]

The line wasn’t completed to Parramatta due to estimates that it wouldn’t be economically justified. The cost would have been little changed by the short additional tunnelling, as they were going to build a bridge and the two tunnel entrances. I don’t know what it would have been like, but if they constructed a shell around the railway it may not have been a problem. Otherwise it was going to be noisy, and right next to the main picnic areas of LCNP, which was more a problem than the residents. My memory is that they did a series of environmental impact submissions and it was one of the last, so they had few options other than to go ahead or cancel everything. It did result in cancellation of the UTS station because it was considered that if there was a fire and the escalators stopped then many people would not be able to make their own way to the surface. Epping is bad enough.

[@OldAussieAds]

@@pacomarveeny9640 Exactly this. It wasn't residents - or at least it wasn't just residents. It was a group of people that were concerned for the National Park. I don't know all the facts but I had heard there's an important species (a frog maybe) located at the proposed site for the railway bridge.

[@Rosa-lv8yw]

There's a similar disconnect between Metros' Tullawong and Trains' Schofields. It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that the NW Metro wasn't built to have its terminating station just 3km to the west, as part of an extension to the Schofields station. Also, great video!

[@mark123655]

For similar reasons - the number of people transferring at Schofield's would be very small versus the cost. When the Libs came into power they took what had been planned, made a few minor tweaks, made it a metro and got on building it. Now it will be built - but only because of the benefits of connecting to the NorthWest to Western Sydney Airport and the main line at St.Marys.

[@gregessex1851]

@@mark123655 At the risk of being political (which I’m not), but any rail planning between about 2000 and 2011 was reactionary and never got even close to being built. The North West Metro may not be perfect but at least it got built. Now there is a basis for future extensions.

[@AndrewMarszalek]

@@gregessex1851 this led to a promise by I think the Gillard government around 2010 to fund Parra to Epping project which was basically and sadly laughed at by the locals in the area given state Labor’s continual failures in building any rail in the north west beyond ECRL between 1995 & 2011. Labor, at the time, couldn’t be taken seriously on trains in the north west. Metro may have its issues, but at least it got built and more is following. The Metro is something I wish the current NSW opposition would get strongly behind for continued plan/build, so we know regardless of Labor or Lib in power that there is a commitment to keep rolling out Metro and Trains projects to new or underserved areas of Sydney regardless of flavour of government.

[@gregessex1851]

@@AndrewMarszalek Yes, those last few years after Bob Carr left were not a good time for the ALP. I went looking for details of the Sydney Metro that they spent $500 million on and then cancelled it. The quote in Wikipedia sums it up "The cycle of announcement, re-announcement and cancellation of rail projects was a familiar pattern under the Labor government that ruled New South Wales between 1995 and 2011. The short life of the Sydney Metro proposal was a significant contributing factor to Labor's rout at the 2011 state election". I have some faith that next time around they will continue with the metro projects. There is so much momentum now that you can't imagine it being stopped dead if they get a turn in 2023.

[@michaelcobbin]

@@AndrewMarszalek My biggest concern with NSW Labor is that they will return to their 2000 to 2011 state. Sydney's population has grown by 1 million from 2011 to 2021. Sydney needs to continually build more public infrastructure to keep up with the additional demand.

[@griffinrails]

Man, the Carlingford line was weird. Know what's weirder? The Sandown line, a branchline of the branchline. Technically the big racecourse platform at Rosehill was the last part of it in use. Made at around the same time as the Carlingford line, at Camellia a station called Hardies would be built LITERALLY right next to the existing Camellia Station (and at one point had a seperate tram line (owned by a FERRY company!) crossing both tracks), before it went through a toxic industrial wasteland (oil, rubber and even absbestos!) through Goodyear station (owned by teh tyre company), Cream of Tartar Works station (mmmmm!), and then finally Sandown, which was just another factory. In WW2 the line became a loop connecting up with the BP siding south of Rosehill. Passenger servcice ended in 91, it was de-lectrified in '02 and properly closed in 2010.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Yeah...I can't believe passenger services on that line only ended in 1991! Seems so strange to me; having driven through Camellia for the first time a few days ago to film this video, it's so quiet and industrial I can't believe a dedicated train line ran there for years.

[@andrewverdon9718]

@@BuildingBeautifully love to see a video on the route and history of this line !

[@griffinroads3156]

@@andrewverdon9718 Good luck with that, it's just nothing but absbestos ridden industrial wasteland.

[@tonydoggett7627]

During WW2, the rail siding platform and warehouse on the corner of Grand Ave and Colquhoun St Camellia. Packed deceased American serviceman in Formaldehyde for shipping back to the USA. I went on an engineering tour of the Pacific chemicals site in the early 1990’s and you could still smell the Formaldehyde that had spilled on the warehouse concrete floor. There is a bomb shelter nearby too.

[@Elitist20]

Another weird one - the Ropes Creek line. On the huge indicator board at North Sydney you'd see it, but it was never lit up - only five trains ran there per day, four very early in the morning and one in the afternoon. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropes_Creek_railway_line

[@paulninnis14]

Very interesting! I actually travelled on the line between Rydalmere and Carlingford for 4 years between 1962 to 1966, while attending James Ruse. I would say that students from JR would have made up the majority of passengers. I do remember back then talk of extending it to Epping.

[@edvoon]

I live barely a 12 minute walk away from Carlingford station and have only taken it a handful of times, usually on the way to and from the airport. Having a Light Rail to Parramatta is definitely a second best option, but it's better than nothing after decades of all talk and no action. We almost had it after Julia Gillard promised to put up the funds, but stupid Barry O'Farrell wanted to divert the money to his pet project the Norwest Rail link instead, and in the end the Federal Govt refused to release the funds, and we all lost out. Still, we can't complain about a regular light rail shuttle to Parramatta and more importantly, Westmead Hospital. They promised a tram every 7.5min during peak hour, so let's hope that's achievable. Point of note - the fastest way into the city is not by train, but in fact it is the M2 Interchange bus station at North Carlingford, being the last station for express buses all the way down the M2 to Wynyard, it is almost twice as fast as taking the train during non-peak, and about 10min faster during peak hours. You literally can rock up at any time without checking the timetable and the next bus will arrive within 5 minutes during peak, and maybe 15min non-peak. When the buses eventually change to electric, it will be a much more comfortable ride as well.

[@sydt9]

We can complain. It takes HALF AN HOUR to get to Westmead on this light rail. It’s not ideal, and I’m not for it, but I’m not against it. Yet my railway-fan brain will definitely ride this line anyway 😂

[@Gary-vv5gt]

Funny, was planning to move there at some stage (which didn't happen). Was boredly twating around and saw this Oaks St..... But oddly I don't know why its doesn't pop up for anyone who live southwards of Nth Rocks Rd as an option

[@bendowson3124]

I too have lived only a 5 minute drive away from Carlingford station my entire life and I never even saw Carlingford station let alone used it. As a kid, whenever I saw Carlingford station on the map while on the train, I would always be like "wait, there's a train station at Carlingford? Where?!" as my familiarity of Carlingford was mainly the shopping centre. In fact, I was so ignorant of the train line, that I had completely forgotten it had closed until I was researching it a few months ago. It was only recently when visiting the Carlingford Music Centre to buy some guitar strings that I decided to have a look at the station, which is now no longer a train station.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

100% agree. Anyone who lives in the Carlingford area knows how silly its location is! The fact that they chose to build the shopping centre nowhere near the station to me is such a clear representation of how inefficient the Carlingford line was.

[@electro_sykes]

@@BuildingBeautifully it was to promote car use

[@electro_sykes]

@@BuildingBeautifully at least light rail is better than another proposal i came across. That proposal was ripping out the Carlingford line and replacing it with a major toll road.

[@AleksPTA]

The local residents didn't want a station at the former UTS campus as the campus was about to close and a new station would have meant high density residential Going under the river instead of a bridge meant that the UTS station would be too expensive. The loss of land value at the UTS campus meant loss of a few hundred million dollars which needed to be found somewhere, thus the project not extending to Parramatta. The head of the local lobby group against the UTS station was a little known MP Barry O'Farrel Make of that what you will

[@A420-g2d]

As a long time Carlingford (now Epping or near Epping) resident thank you for making this video! I really really wanted for this line to be made!!! Carlingford is growing and really needs a proper train line! We have 4 schools here, 2 private schools and a few good public schools too! Carlingford is a great place to live and a bustling real estate hotspot which will be crucial for economy activity as it's close to Epping, Eastwood and Parramatta. Not too mention the Western Sydney University campus near Camelia is also growing too, and it NEEDS a heavy rail link to Epping and Parramatta, which are two big commercial hubs too! I'm all for more people moving here and building more commercial hubs here but if we're to do that WE NEED a reliable public transport system! Be it heavy rail and a much more reliable bus link. The Light rail is just a band aid solution for Carlingford and Parramatta residents and I don't think a light rail will be enough capacity to carry commuters, and it doesn't solve the issue if it doesn't link up to Epping and beyond. The only solution I can see is the PECRL line and a more reliable bus network.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

100% agree. Having lived just outside of Carlingford my whole life, it's sad to see its lack of adequate public transport, which I don't think will ever be fixed.

[@listohan]

@@BuildingBeautifully Each Eastern suburbs light rail service can carry around 450 passengers, which is as many as up to nine standard buses. And they can run close together in the peak, By serving destinations in both directions (Macquarie Park and Parramatta), the duplicated lines double the capacity. That should be enough to justify linking to the rest of the rail network at Epping. Terminating at Carlingford gives an additional light rail patronage of 0.

[@electro_sykes]

@@BuildingBeautifully thats because the government want evryone heading into the cbd where they have more control over them

[@electro_sykes]

@@BuildingBeautifully they could always build a light rail tunnel between Carlingford and Epping.

[@electro_sykes]

They can still build a direct rail link between Parramatta and Epping. They upgrade the existing line between Parramatta and Lidcombe, then run it through the Olympic Park. From Olympic Park, they could then build a new rail tunnel lining to the T9 at Rhodes, thus removing the loop at Olympic Park Station. Then from there, they can then run services straight through to Epping, Hornsby and even Newcastle. Imagine been able to get a direct one seat ride between Parramatta and Newcastle

[@normanpain573]

I lived in Carlingford between 1957 and 1983 and I remember all the anticipation for completing that 3km link to Epping but it was all noise! A beneficial project that was stopped by politicians that lacked courage, leadership and last but not least, vision for the future! As you say that uncrossable zone probably will be there forever. A most informative blog!!

[@karinabrampt1556]

I visited Carlingford Court today by taking the 550 bus from Beecroft Road, Epping Station. I like Carlingford Court and this is the first time that I've visited the CC by myself to shop. Your coverage makes a lot of sense and a good information resource. I never knew this historical information.

[@gregessex1851]

My understand why it wasn’t built from Carlingford to Epping was that extending the line to Rouse Hill was far better use of the route into the city on the basis of passenger numbers and potential for house development.

[@brad4013]

Back in 2010 Premier Kristina Keneally had begun work on a Sydney Metro line which was to run from the City to Rouse Hill via Pyrmont, Ryde, Epping and Castle Hill. Such a shame that they didn't go ahead with it. Can you imagine if both the Parramatta to Chatswood line and the originally planned metro were built, all intersecting with the existing line at Epping?

[@gregessex1851]

@@brad4013 The voters went after them with baseball bats in March 2011 and their stop start on projects didn’t help them.

[@huihe953]

As someone who lived in "the zone" in Carlingford for decades I think it's also important to point out how regular the M2 buses (toll highway in the north part of your map at 12:19) are on peak. Essentially a 30min trip to the city leaving every 5-10mins while a bus to Epping then to train to the city is easily an hour, or a circuitous route via the Carlingford station would take 1.5hrs. There's an effective public transit solution already so limited demand for that rail line. Extending light rail down Carlingford Rd to Epping station (somewhat too far south to take advantage of the M2 bus interchange) would be a logical progression though as there's now a lot of high density apartments along that strip.

[@DMack6464]

Due to expansion, the area may have like the east with constantly packed buses and no proper solution in sight

[@lmlmd2714]

Agree. This will take the light rail right past Carlingford Court too, which would be a big plus.

[@rakeau]

The great irony is that, they complain about low patronage, decide to close it down .. and then allow a tonne of high-density development that means there'll be more people living there that would require the line. If it's converted to light rail, then great (and I guess that means the line and its stations still ultimately exists), but it seems like that connection to Epping should still happen, just as was always theorized.

[@PlanesTrainsEverything]

I also lived just a 5 minute drive from Carlingford (I now live in the UK). I used the line because of the 'heritage' stock that would be used on it during the 1980's, such as the red rattlers and the Tulloch double-decker coaches. You have produced a great video, explaining something I often wondered about - why so much unused land north of the station. I recall there was talk in the 1980's of extending the line, but like so many rail projects at that time, and the dreaded dotted 'proposed line' on maps, they never came to anything. I also remember the grain silo opposite the station. Your videos bring back so many memories.I honestly wouldn't recognise the place now.

[@huwmather5477]

I used to get the 1st train out of carlingford station in the mornings in 1986 and 87 to Rydalmere,the memories

[@focusonsummer9977]

What a great video! Keep up the good work! I am very sad about the closure of the Carlingford line, and as an Epping resident, or more specifically, a resident of the zone, who works in Parramatta, I find extending the line to be much more helpful than light rail, or the busses now used.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

100% agreed. Such a lost opportunity.

[@jack2453]

Plans in the SATS in the 1970s were for a connection north from Carlingford to join the northern line at Beecroft - more of a Hornsby-Parramatta link than Epping or Chatswood. It envisioned eventually interurbans would also use the tracks, making a Central Coast-Parramatta link.

[@daskurka]

BB: None of the streets are large enough to carry light rail Light Rail Tram Heading Down Devonshire St in Surry Hills: YOU SURE ABOUT THAT??? Great video keep it up!

[@DKS225]

About the only time when The Carlingford line was busy albeit part of it was the horseracing specials from Sydney to Rosehill and Freight Trip workings to Sandown which branched off at Camelia until The Sandown line closed for good in 2010.

[@nightbladepotatoe0123]

It's funny decades ago when they demolished the tram lines in Parramatta only decades later they now run exactly where they used too.

[@aussiejohn5835]

I am so happy that I found your channel and I have subscribed. I suspect that the true patronage figures would be much higher if all passengers had a ticket or tapped on when Opal was introduced. The bus services in the area were slow but direct to Parramatta and were well patronised. The tram to Parramatta and Westmead will be very popular due to the direct service with no need to transfer. The missing link to Epping will never be a reality until we get a Transport friendly Government.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Thank you!

[@electro_sykes]

our cars are promoting car use. The private toll companies are literally paying the Government to encourage more cars and less public transport options. Thats why Marsden park lacks public transport

[@staryoshi06]

Yep. I reckon it was primarily used by school students who don't care to tap on.

[@tonyxu4140]

the majority issue regarding the Sydney train route design is too focus on the usage and impact on the housing price, which a lot of people in the Epping or parramatta will be more easily accessed. However, POLITICIANS don't want to loss the vote, which just left the missing, even no direct link between western Sydney to Chatswood. Then neighbour has to live with the congested road between Epping and Parramatta or even the Richmond. You either need to pay the toll or waste time on the congested road all day round.

[@completingsydney]

Great video. It often saddens me how public transport in Sydney is exclusively focused on getting people to and from the city, and not much else. I can't help but wonder how much better Sydney would be if it was feasible to use public transport for other routes, and a rail connection between Parramatta and Chatswood would've been great for this. This would have given easier access to Parramatta, Epping, Chatswood & Macquarie for all of the West and Northwest, and subsequently connections to the North Shore (St Leonards, North Sydney etc) and what became the Northwest Rail link (to places like Castle Hill and Norwest). So many extra cars on the road :( I also imagine that the redevelopment potential of Dundas, Rydalmere, Rosehill, Teleopia & Camelia would've been huge. It's actually quite a centrally located bit of Sydney, just with inadequate transport. RIP the Carlingford Line, you beautifully useless idiot.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Oh it's you!!! Took me a moment to recognise your username haha. I love your Completing Sydney website, your Denistone visit actually helped me a lot with my Denistone video. You should check that out! 100% agree that the PECRL was a lost opportunity, this area could have been so much better had it been built, and travel to Parramatta would have been greatly enhanced. Anyways, thank you for watching :))

[@completingsydney]

​@@BuildingBeautifully Thank you! I'll check out your Denistone video and good luck with the channel.

[@waza987]

Very detailed coverage but one key part of the story you missed was the original light proposal. This was to branch of at Dundas and continue the light rail through Eastwood to Macquarie Park. Basically skimming the lower edge of “The Zone” on your map. While not as direct as Carlingford to Epping this would have allowed connections via one stop away from Epping at Eastwood (heavy rail) and Macquarie Park (metro)

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Check out my pinned comment :)) Totally agree, would've been better than the current situation for sure

[@ktipuss]

That strettch of vacant grassy land north of Carlingford Station was almost certainly reserved for a late 19th century proposal to extend from Carlingford all the way to Dural! The line was originally privately owned by two companies, but taken over by the NSWGR in 1898 after it seems the private companies went bust (probably due to the 1892/93 Depression). The original owner of the Camellia-Carlingford section apparently did want to go to Dural, since it presented a steady freight income from all the orchards there (and are still there today). The failure of the companies ended that plan, but the land remained vacant ever since. Old maps of the 1940s show it as vacant land. I can't find any current reference to it but I do recall reading about this history on a newspaper article about the line, entitled from memory: "Coffee pot to Carlo"; the "coffee pots" were the 20 class locos shown in your old photos. Someone mentioned the tramline from the ferry wharf at Rosehill (Redbank). Its main purpose was actually carrying linseed oil from Meggitts factory in Parramatta, and carried passengers as a side-earner. It closed in 1943, but the tram tracks were definitely still under the bitumen (and occasionally showed through) well into the 2000s. The curve at the terminus at the Parramatta Park "Tudor" gate was still in place into the mid-1960s, not tarred over. Whether the tracks in George Street have since been removed I do not know.

[@biosparkles9442]

As a Melbournian now living in Marsfield, I have to say there absolutely *is* room for trams on Carlingford Road between Carlingford and Epping. Carlingford Road is a wide, 4-to-5 lane road, very similar to many of the mixed running roads in Melbourne. I can think of quite a few examples around the suburbs of Flemington, Ascot Vale, Moonee Ponds, Footscray and Maribrynong in the north west of Melbourne as well as Richmond all the way to Camberwell and further in the east, and they're just the areas I'm personally familiar with. Some examples from the north west of very similar roads to Carlingford Road include Mt Alexander Road with the 59, Epsom Road and Maribyrnong Road with the 57, Raleigh Road with the 57 and 82, just off the top of my head. However, for roads like this to work, trams have to be prioritised over personal vehicle 100% of the time. In all of Melbourne, on all of the roads where trams are sharing with cars, trams always have both right of way and priority over all other traffic except for emergency vehicles. This includes at traffic lights, where trams typically have their own green light that goes before the green light for cars and enables the trams to avoid traffic congestion. Additionally, many of Melbourne's shared tramways have conditional mixed use. E.g. during peak hour many of the shared roads switch from allowing cars to use the tracks as another lane, to prohibiting cars from crossing onto the tracks at all. This *strongly* enforces that trams have priority on those roads. It's a similar concept to bus lanes that only prohibit cars during certain hours, but in my experience the major difference is that people have less 'respect' for buses due to the fact that buses, if they have to, can exit the bus lane to avoid a car if necessary. Buses also, typically, can come to a stop quickly due to the friction between the rubber tyres and the road. The same cannot be said for trams. Trams are fixed to their rails and absolutely cannot stop quickly/unexpectedly, and drivers know this. Drivers are far less likely to dive into a tramway in front of a tram because they're consciously or subconsciously aware that the tram cannot avoid them, and that if a tram does hit them it is almost *always* going to be ruled the car driver's fault. Melbourne's trams also seem to have absolutely no moral qualms about driving into someone who is illegally in the tramway (from personal experience). Mixed running roads where trams and cars share the same infrastructure are often seen as a objectively bad thing, but I think this is flawed perspective. Trams are essentially much more efficient buses that are far less likely to get stuck in traffic (when appropriate priority is enforced) and are much quieter than buses and cars, and it has been established that trams have higher ridership than buses, even when the price, frequency, speed are equivalent (I have theories as to why that is, but this comment is already too much of an essay to get into it). Additionally, trams encourage more development than bus routes; bus routes are flexible and temporary, they're easily changed or completely removed without any infrastructure changes being necessary at all, this means that they're risky to invest in development around. In contrast, trams require permanent structures to be installed and routes cannot easily be altered, meaning developing around a tram line is a much safer investment, as it's unlikely the tram line will suddenly move off any given road without significant warning. Trams, overall, are a much better option than buses, even if they're on mixed running roads. Sure, there are many situations in which heavy rail is a much better solution than light rail, but there are absolutely contexts in which light rail makes sense. One of those contexts is where space is lacking and there is little-to-no government support/interest in building heavy rail infrastructure - Carlingford to Epping fits this context, where the only way to link the regions with heavy rail would've been with a tunnel or sky rail, and, since the removal of Carlingford heavy rail line, would now be utterly absurd. I would also argue that literally any road with bus lanes in Sydney would be better serviced by trams, and I've pretty much explained why above. Hypothetically if, for some reason, the obvious Carlingford Road tram route - currently part of the the 630 bus route - was deemed unacceptable, I can also easily imagine a tram route that still continues up to Carlingford Rd and initially turns right down Carlingford Rd, but, rather than continuing, follows the current 550 bus route down Pennant Pde all the way to the end of Boronia Ave. From there it could follow either of the existing 550 routes - either up Kent St back to Carlingford Rd or down through Bridge Street to Rawson Street - or, since I'm thinking hypothetically and I can be idealistic, it could instead travel through Boronia Park from Kent St on a tram-only section (see Royal Park in Melbourne for an example of a tram line going through a park) before joining up with the shops at Rawson Street/Rawson Street carpark. Rawson Street could also be completely closed to car traffic between Carlingford Road and Bridge Street & the whole area could become a pedestrian-centric hub for Epping (sorry not sorry Oxford Street). I imagine people would *freak out* about not being able to park at the Coles, but I'm sure someone could come up with a viable solution. Perhaps a parking structure that you enter by driving under the now-pedestrianised Rawson Street could be a suitable compromise. Anyway I've rambled enough, tl;dr putting a tram between Carlingford and Epping is absolutely viable if transit is prioritised over personal vehicles.

[@banjopiggottwright1802]

I'm incredibly hyped for the Parramatta Light Rail's opening in a few weeks' time. To this day, I'll never understand why they didn't extend the Light Rail to Epping via. Carlingford Road, because whilst it'd be onerous to construct, I know it's possible as I've successfully scouted a Light Rail extension corridor that would theoretically provide the people of Carlingford, Epping West and Epping a sufficient public transportation connection to Westmead via. Parramatta CBD. Great video as always my friend 👍

[@michaelcobbin]

Great video; keep them coming. Here's my view. Any Parramatta buses that pass a Parramatta Light Rail station will become a feeder system for the Light Rail. TfNSW did the same thing with North West Metro and Sydney Light Rail. The benefits are: 1) The Light Rail is a right-way system and not impacted by traffic, thus providing quicker trips for the commuter. 2) Frees up capacity at the Parramatta Bus interchange. With Parramatta becoming more and more Sydney's 2nd CBD, the need to extend the Light Rail to Epping will grow. TfNSW has Parramatta Light Rail and Pennants Hills Road as the city-shaping corridors between Epping and Parramatta. To me, the logical extension is a tunnel under Pennant Hills Road, Carlingford Village, and Carlingford Public School. The tunnel will come out somewhere near the western end of Willoughby Street. The Light Rail will extend along Willoughby Street, Boronia Ave, and Bridge Street. The existing bridge of the train line can be widened for the Light Rail and connect to the train station on the eastern side of the station. With both Train and Metro stations at either end of the line and services running every 7.5 minutes, the Light Rail line will become a popular area for redevelopment. Once the Light Rail is extended to Epping, for most people living along the line, it's only 10 minute or less trip to a Metro station.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Thanks! Actually, that is an interesting idea. However, I do think some of those streets are a bit narrow, and a tunnel wouldn't be ideal. Plus, that bridge already struggles with road traffic, so I doubt anyone would be keen to add a light rail to the traffic. I definitely do think the light rail needs to be extended to meet the metro; I think an extension via Eastwood to Macquarie Park would probably work better, as mentioned in my pinned comment.

[@michaelcobbin]

@@BuildingBeautifully Have you checked out what the City of Sydney (CoS) has done in Zetland? CoS identified a corridor for a new Light Rail line, and the new development must allocate space to the Light Rail corridor. At the moment, the land is used as parkland. TfNSW used a tunnel on the Sydney Light Rail at Moore Park. Willoughby St and Boronia Ave are wide enough for Light Rail and local traffic only. As for the last bit through Epping, there are other options.

[@stargazingsongs]

As a (nearly) lifetime resident of Rydalmere who has never used the Rydalmere station, it was great to hear your explanation as to why the line was never properly finished. I’ve always relied on buses to take me to nearby stations (usually Parramatta) to be able to get anywhere in the city, and the light rail will hopefully make it easier to get to Parra and transfer from there. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s definitely an improvement!

[@davidcarr2649]

Another new subscriber here. What an amazing channel!!! Firstly I'm 54 and born in Sydney. We moved house often, so I got to learn and know well so many parts of Sydney. I even lived right next to Pennant Hills Rd a few minutes walk from Carlingford Court. I live in Nimbin now, I have done for 16 years and that leaves close to 40 years of exploring Sydney in detail. If only I had a smartphone a KZbin back then, there would be so much content (not as slick as yours) for all to see now. I find it a big effort to make much content in my fifties. In my lifetime, I only used the Carlingford line 3 times! So you're spot on with this video. I will be watching more of your videos now that I've subscribed. I believe that those three kilometres should have been built, along with a second line (crazy only have a single track) within a few years of Carlingford Station being completed. I hope to find a few of your videos highlighting similar issues within the greater Sydney region. I am a fan now and congratulations on more than three thousand subs! I'd love a reply.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Thanks for subscribing David! Cool to hear you once lived in the area too (and share our lack of experience with the Carlingford line!) Ever since I made this video I've been weirdly sadder about the lack of the extension...it truly is such a tragedy it was never extended. A waste of what could have been an amazing, useful and effective railway. I love making the channel, and I'm so lucky to be able to do it in this day and age all with my phone camera. Thank you for enjoying my channel!

[@davidcarr2649]

@@BuildingBeautifully thanks for replying.

[@electro_sykes]

They can still build a direct rail link between Parramatta and Epping. They upgrade the existing line between Parramatta and Lidcombe, then run it through the Olympic Park. From Olympic Park, they could then build a new rail tunnel lining to the T9 at Rhodes, thus removing the loop at Olympic Park Station. Then from there, they can then run services straight through to Epping, Hornsby and even Newcastle. Imagine been able to get a direct one seat ride between Parramatta and Newcastle

[@holiday197]

I used to live halfway between Carlingford and Epping in the late 90s and we always went to Epping station because it was much easier to catch a train anywhere (to the city or Parramatta). When designing the Carlingford branch, Granville should have been the terminus as more trains stopped there. Plus you could change to get an express train in either direction as opposed to Clyde station. But a link from Rose Hill to Parramatta would have been even better given that Parramatta was one of the major CBD Sydney areas at the time. Plus from what I recall, Carlingford station did not have a decent-sized carpark given that the station was located next to quite a bit of vacant land. But yet we had to park on the streets near Epping station and walked to the station because we thought that it would be easier than going to Carlingford.

[@AheadMatthewawsome]

The EPRL would’ve been very handy for me! Parramatta is becoming almost as big as the City! And there’s no reasonable Transport to Parramatta except for the car in the North Shore, or all of Eastern Sydney! And the -3- 6 cities project will not fix any of these! Diving us up is silly! It’s a huge disappointment they never did it, even just extending the Light Rail to Epping would be a game changer! I could keep going on about how the WHOLE project is a disaster and we’re still facing the consequences to this day! Parramatta, and Western Sydney is important to everyone, and it shouldn’t matter if you have a car or not determining if you got a Berlin Wall in your city! Maybe there might a video in there somewhere? Oh, and congrats on getting 1,000 subs! 🥳 Great to see you’re on the rise, you deserve it for your amazing videos!

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Oh, there's definitely a video in that! I started to touch on it in the video, but I've barely scratched the surface; getting to Parramatta from the north is really hard. At least the western Hills have the T-Way. But areas north-east of Parramatta have so much trouble. And I hate to say it, but the problem isn't going to be fixed any time soon. Well, at least there's plans to fix that in the Metro 2056 plans, though it remains to be seen if those will actually go ahead. Thanks for watching by the way!

[@terrykennedy7422]

I used to live right near the Carlingford train station in my teen years, in fact the train passed directly behind my back yard; I travelled the line regularly. Something I would have mentioned in this video is, the steep incline between telopea and carlingford made it very difficult for the trains to climb in wet weather, I remember a few times the trains coming to a stand still while the wheels spun, the driver even announcing over the intercom that he was having difficulty. So this was probably a factor in why a heavy rail link was never completed between Carlingford and epping. Historically the line was originally used for industrial purposes, remains of it were visible in the nearby power station in carlingford and stockfeeds next to the station. This included a weighbridge and grain pit.

[@ForTheBirbs]

Thanks for another interesting video. Have you read John Bradfield's reports on the Sydney transport system that led to his city circle harbour bridge design? He proposed a connection from the North Shore line to Parramatta to enable the various segments of the rail system to function better and independently in case of line issues. The report can be found online. I was involved in the original / modified Epping- Chatswood link on the community liaison group. I have a great book on its construction

[@mt-mg7tt]

A great video. But a couple of points: 1.) The Carlingford line isn't convenient to Carlingford Court and some other places, but those didn't exist when it was built. 2.) The line was also serving industry as well as passengers, especially the branch at Camellia that served Hardies etc. Incidentally that line also carried passengers to factories. So it makes some sense to connect at Clyde, though a direct connection to. Parra would have been good (as well?). But city via Clyde suited the radial obsession I guess. 3.) I've always wondered if there could not have been a Y junction to the Carlingford line just east of Granville. There seemed to be just one building in the way, and it would have allowed Liverpool as well as Parra to Carlingford etc. But this was never proposed AFAIK.

[@gingerqueer22]

so the city moved on, but the line was never changed to reflect that? tbh that sounds about right; i live in perth and some of our older lines desperately need to be reviewed in regard to station placement, connections and facilities. we also have huge blind spots in the network, thanks to decades of the system being neglected.

[@petesmith9472]

You have overlooked one function of the Carlingford line. From the 1960s until it closed it was a MAJOR transport facility for students of James Ruse who travel from as far as Pitt Town (Mulgrave), kurrajong (Richmond line) even Caringbah and the northern beaches.

[@iman2341]

With the Carlingford Road being 4 lane and limited access and Pennant Hills road being so close to Carlingford station I can see it only taking a limited amount of political will to build the light rail out to Epping, it wouldn’t be expensive either, especially compared to a bored metro tunnel and certainly serve as a good first link. Especially for radial routes avoiding the CBD.

[@dhsfuurtsuggzdhhdndhj]

An often overlooked fact is that the Metro from North Strathfield-Westmead will achieve many of the goals of the Epping-Parramatta link. The quick transfer between the two lines at North Strathfield will open up new commutes for people to journey between the West, Inner West, North and Central Coast.

[@MichaelTavares]

How do you only have 1000 subs? You’re a fantastic KZbinr and deserve great viewership and success!

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Wow, thank you!!

[@exray1]

You've mentioned the alternative light rail route from Parramatta to Macquarie park via Eastwood, which was Parramatta Council's preferred route in their preliminary feasibility study. It's more direct and faster than a route via Carlingford and Epping, which was dismissed early in the feasibility investigations. However, when TfNSW took over its planning, for some inexplicable reason, the route via Eastwood wasn't even included on the shortlist of options. Instead they proposed a route from Parramatta to Macquarie Park via "Carlingford", with no mention of Epping which seemed odd. Perhaps they meant via the "Carlingford Line", which could have included the Eastwood route as an option. It's history now that the decision was made to convert the Carlingford Line to light rail, terminating at Carlingford Station. It doesn't appear that any further planning had been done initially to extend the light rail to Epping Station, where interchange could have been possible to Metro Northwest to reach Macquarie Park. Almost as an afterthought, subsequent investigations were carried out to extend the line to Epping, but that got derailed, when by the Transport Minister's own admission, there were challenging engineering and cost constraints. It quietly disappeared off the radar and it's no wonder why. To extend the line from Carlingford Station to Epping would have required a steep climb up to Carlingford Rd in tunnel, as the surface corridor has been redeveloped with new blocks of apartments, and then run along the 4-lane Carlingford Rd to Epping. As Carlingford Rd is a very busy arterial route, it would have required road widening along its whole length to maintain a 4-lane traffic corridor., which wouldn't come cheaply. A further impediment is that with existing blocks of apartments on the southern side of Carlingford Rd and new recently developed 5-storey blocks on the northern side approaching Beecroft Rd, road widening wouldn't be practicable. There is also the issue of finding a site within the Epping Town Centre for a terminus within a reasonable distance of Epping Station to allow for convenient interchange to Metro Northwest and Sydney Trains. It was all just too hard, which is why they've dropped the idea. Suggestions of extending the route to Epping in tunnel would be too expensive and wouldn't be viable for light rail, when you'd require at least one underground station along the route. They never thought this through from the very beginning. There's a bit of history in all of this, starting with the original Parramatta to Chatswood Rail Link. There were multiple options for heavy rail, light rail and bus transit. Options 1 and 2 for heavy rail were from Parramatta to Macquarie University via Carlingford and Epping, and also via Dundas and Eastwood, both using the Carlingford Line. While the convoluted route via Carlingford and Epping utilised all of the Carlingford Line from Camellia and was obviously cheaper, the more direct Eastwood route diverged from the Carlingford Line at Dundas, continuing in tunnel to Macquarie University. The latter also had the option of a "Y" link from Eastwood to Epping to allow for direct services between Parramatta and Hornsby. In spite of the longer term benefits of the Eastwood route for the broader rail network, although more expensive, I can see no other reason for selecting the Carlingford/Epping route, than making the most use of the Carlingford Line because it was cheaper, although it's longer and slower than the alternative more direct route via Eastwood, which after all, is the largest retail/commercial centre on the Northern Line between the Parramatta River and Hornsby. It's equivalent to Chatswood on the North Shore Line in relative terms. The same mistake has been made in selection of the light rail route, which should have been via Eastwood, as recommended in Parramatta Council's feasibility study. A total lack of foresight. There is still a possibility that a future direct light rail route from Parramatta to Macquarie Park via Eastwood could be revived, but with a modification of the route through Parramatta. With Stage 2 of the PLR now branching from the Carlingford route at Camellia, the route to Macquarie Park via Eastwood could instead branch from Church St, North Parramatta into Victoria Rd, continuing along Kissing Point Rd and the Eastwood County Rd reservation as originally proposed. There is no issue with the street widths through Eastwood as the County Rd reservation allows for 6 lanes and right turn bays with a wide median and that includes Rutledge St and First Ave. Most of the corridor, including road widenings, is already owned by the government and only minimal resumptions would be required. There has been a bit of a furphy thrown up about environmental issues in crossing Brush Farm Park, which is a steep gully, but this has in fact been a classified road, albeit unmade, as an extension of Rutledge St to Marsden Rd and Stewart St for over a century. It skirts the southern boundary of Brush Farm Park. After earlier community consultation, a couple of decades ago, the then DMR/RTA proposed an arch bridge across the gully, which would have minimal impact on the valley floor below, much like the De Burghs Bridge across Lane Cove National Park, but not as wide a gap. I've got detailed plans. Finally, under the 2056 rail plan, a metro line is proposed from Parramatta to Epping as part of the conversion of the SWRL and Cumberland Line to metro. With regard to the Parramatta to Epping section, although it could be a long way off, I would hope that the alternative more direct route to Macquarie Park via Eastwood would be considered as an option and not repeat the mistakes of the past. The Carlingford Line would no longer be an option. In the meantime, a light rail route via Eastwood could fill the gap until the level of demand warranted a new metro line.

[@andrewjones3709]

The other issue they found doing Carlingford to Epping was that doing a tunnel was probably going to be a problem for Unit/house owners as the ground was a problem for a tunnel & was rumoured they were going to have to dive deeper to avoid damage to units in line with the tunnel

[@qjtvaddict]

They could build an elevated

[@ShianVideos]

I really like quiet, underused train lines like the Carlingford line, and it's a shame to see it go. Whilst I understand the issues of low patronage, stations on these lines and the areas around them often have a relaxed and atmospheric beauty which is accentuated by the lonely train ride on a line that only has a single track. Similar examples include the Alamein line in Melbourne or the Koyoen line in Osaka.

[@heyitsluno]

Honestly this line would've been really helpful, especially because of how bad parking is around Epping station, but it's understandable.

[@kamalinimalhotra2695]

I have lived in Carlingford most of my life in Australia. Later I moved into an apartment, hop skip and jump from Carlingford station. Travelled to St James everyday to work and saw peak hours were packed on the trains. Frankly speaking all it needed for the shuttle train from Carlingford to Clyde changed to light rail. And even if it was to extend to Westmead etc, taking away the connection to Clyde station is plain stupidity. Clyde has trains going to all directions to the city or through Parramatta downwards. One can make Clyde a fancy station but to disconnect Carlingford having the tracks straight to the city is plain stupid. Not connecting it to Epping is also stupid.

[@aboriginalrocks]

Lived the majority of my 49 years in North Rocks, my location was a bit of hike from Carlingford Station but very doable if I was keen, but a bus down to Parramatta then train from there was always my go to if I had to use public transport to the City - I think I only took that Carlo line once in my life (the low frequency of trains and change at Clyde was always off-putting). Since my childhood I recall talk of joining the Carlingford line to Epping and that vacant land being kept clear for that purpose (had a friend in school that lived next to that land, we went to Carlingford West Primary). Guess this puts that to bed once and for all - bit of a shame.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Yeah...seems like many in our area didn't use the line. Common experience!

[@hi9580]

Makes it harder for undesirables going from west to north.

[@ch-ju4iw]

THE station at Rydlemere ...used to be on the side of where the UNI now stands ....they "updated " the station and put it on the other side ......they could have place a pedestrian crossing (Dundas , Teleopea stations both had these)........

[@fuwapanzer]

I hadn’t heard about the Parramatta - Epping Rail Link, before, very informative video

[@jackpallace275]

Thank You, most informative. I did take the pre metro train from Saint Leonards to Hornsby via the Macquarie Park Line rather than all the way along the North Shore line to Hornsby when that was still possible . It did take longer but I am glad I did it when still able.

[@e_dt]

Back when I was at Ruse the Carlingford line was well used by students until it closed. I lived in the North Shore, though, and hence had a lot of experience "crossing the uncrossable" in the crowded, slow and perpetually late M54 bus (now the 550) - 4km in 20 minutes.

[@microknife19]

I used to live in Carlingford, between Carlingford Station and Carlingford Court, and would have appreciated the link when I was studying a course that was only at St. Leonard's TAFE. I could get a bus from Carlingford Station to Epping Station, but it took a while. Now I live in Artarmon near Chatswood, and study at Western Sydney University at Parramatta City Campus, and would appreciate not going through Central in the afternoon peak for night classes.

[@eyoitshoward547]

I am now living in Epping. And when I need to travel to Carlingford. I was forced to go by car or bus. It's definitely more convenient if that 3 km route is made. All thanks to Michael Costa.

[@jamesbonnefin5737]

I'm very impressed by this presentation. You have filled in gaps in my knowledge about this link. However tunneling has become such an art form nowadays, one could be pushed through to Epping very quickly to make an even more important transport hub. I feel sorry for those who are regularly forced to use a private vehicle through this zone. I remember well before 1962 when the majority of Sydney's workers travelled by tram.

[@isaacfung622]

As a Sydneysider who lives in Epping, it is somehow a bit time-consuming to get to Parramatta by 546/549/550

[@tonymagon8509]

It was a PITA in the morning to catch the first train - in a lot of cases - the first Carlingford train never ran - if there was a problem with one of the other trains in the area the first Carlo train was cancelled - then u got a call from the emergency loudspeaker asking how many people were at the station - we were then advised that x number of cabs would arrive to take us to clyde via stations on the line - as time went on there fewer and fewer passengers being carried on the first train - also a bad time table between 6pm and 9pm - if u finished work around 6pm in sydney u did not get to carlo until 8.20pm

[@carisi2k11]

The northwest metro condemned the carlingford line to never be built further and not the light rail. In fact the light rail might actually make it much more feasible to extend to epping and other nearby suburbs.

[@givesy123]

I used to live at Carlingford right near the station. The transfer at Clyde was always painful. I used to get the 7am express to the city they was the best thing but you got to work super early 😂. Sad the tunnel to Epping was never built! Meant it was buses or car to get to Macquarie Uni

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Epping to Chatswood was terrific to travel on.

[@yggdrasil9039]

Actually, with a widened Carlingford Road to accomodate two light rail lines, still keeping the 4 lanes of traffic, and a Tunnel from Carlingford station under the A28, this connection is not that hard and wouldn't be that expensive.

[@listohan]

With the current property prices for the necessary resumptions in northwest Sydney? Not to mention the rollercoaster gradients.

[@yggdrasil9039]

@@listohan No resumptions necessary to put light rail from Carlingford to Epping down the middle of Carlingford Rd. Only a tunnel under the A28 ridge line, which is the only major gradient between the two stations.

[@givesy123]

It’s classic future or present planning. If they had built a proper heavy rail link from Carlo to chats then more high density housing would’ve popped up all along that route

[@kimmihaly7035]

IIRC what is currently Epping Road was supposed to have been the Epping /St Leonards Railway. Again IIRC it was killed in the 1920s by country interests opposed to building any new lines in Sydney. Before the redevelopment of St Leonards you could see the platform that was built in anticipation for the junction.

[@The_Trojan]

Great video as always. Just as an addition I believe at least part of the justification for the Paramatta to Chatswood link was to provide a satellite city to satellite city link between the two that did not go via the Sydney CBD. You didn't really touch on that.

[@lukegenesis]

just stumbled upon your channel a few days agao and I love your content, As a Northwest sydney-sider for nearly 30 years i've had various thoughts and conversations with people on this very topic and you nailed all the details in this video. Keep up the amazing work mate!

[@LachlanKelly]

Cool channel, man. I love this kinda stuff! 👍 Can you do a video on the proposed F6/M6 extension through Sydney’s South?

[@BuildingBeautifully]

That video might be coming sooner than you think 🤭

[@vladsnape6408]

0:05 The work being done on the Paramatta light rail is being done at such a feverish pace that just watching it is making me dizzy.

[@Antphoneigh]

Now that Epping is a mega transport hub it makes no sense for residents of Carlingford and beyond to miss out. I live in the apartment complex and wish we got this instead of the light rail. A massive block of land owned by Meriton nearby is going to drastically increase the density of this former sleepy suburb and put even more pressure on Pennant Hills Rd if you wanted to go north or to the CBD.

[@snooze4802]

Bloody Carlingford Station. Why oh why is it in such an annoying place lol. Locals barely knew it existed it was so poorly planned, and many don’t even know it’s closed! I just don’t see how lightrail is going to fix any of it without the link to Epping.

[@markdavis5684]

I grew up in the area in the 80s went to Macquarie boys high and lived in telopea in early 90s so we lived by this line e.g. we often meet early morn for a day trip to the beach with school friends latter when I lived in telopea it was my transport to and from work. Thanks for bringing up great memories of my youth.

[@markdavis5684]

Btw we use to get of northern line ( we played schools like asquith and normanhurst for weekly sport )we use to get of train at west Ryde and catch bus to Parramatta as it was so much quicker along Vicki rd

[@converserook7655]

such a tragedy they never extended the line

[@keithmottram8755]

Whilst your comments regarding current day are correct, I did not hear any research into past reasons for the Carlingford line. As a Dundas Valley/Carlingford resident from 1960 to 1984, I still remember hearing the steam trains traveling to the Carlingford Co-op during the early 60's. You must remember, Carlingford was once farmland and the Co-op supplied farmers in the area, hence the importance of the Carlingford line. And, in the 60's, 70's and 80's James Ruse AHS students were coming to Carlingford from all over the greater Sydney area, sometimes travelling two hours each way to get to school. The line was very important to the locals, we didn't always have ugly high rise in Carlingford. My house in Carlingford was razed for one of these buildings. I would lie to see you do a more historic video on the Carlingford line, so your subscribers learn more of the history of the line. maybe then, I will subscribe.

[@puneswag]

Thanks for sharing the history and information about this fated line.This disconnect greatly impacts residents of both corners of the line and beyond. Imagine someone from areas nearby Parramatta traveling to Macquarie university or vice a versa or going to Hornsby or vice versa. It's painful to say the least but hey, our planners don't travel on these lines. Do they?

[@davidcarter4247]

When these branch lines were built their main purpose was to bring workers to factories (no one had cars in 1885) and take goods away. This was not a commuter line for local residents because there were no local residents. The extension of the line to Carlingford was probably done in the hope the existence of a railway station might stimulate housing but when my uncle bought a business at Carlingford in the late 1940s is was still largely rural. Rosehill racecourse was also on this line. Every racecourse in Sydney at the time had either a train station or a tram terminus. No cars. As for Clyde, it was the heart of heavy industry in Sydney. Tens of thousands of people worked there and in the suburbs along the southern end of the Carlingford line. It was a very busy station. See, no cars. When you do these things you need to go back to the era these decisions were made instead viewing them through 21st century eyes.

[@seangooley8696]

Can't the light rail from Carlingford to Epping just be extended. It could run down the middle of Carlingford Rd, with single lane traffic on the outside 2 lanes.

[@Anon-fv9ee]

The very original concept was just Epping to Chatswood. The idea was to take pressure off the North Shore line to allow more trains from the Central Coast to come through (by diverting local services from Hornsby via Epping then onto Chatswood). The government of the day however saw an opportunity for votes in western Sydney, their heartland. Hence the original proposal was modified and announced as Parramatta to Chatswood. The benefit-cost ratio for the Parra-Epping section could never be really be justified (at the time) which is why it was dumped in 2003. Back then, had they thought to allow high-rise along the Carlingford line it may have increased the patronage forecast and helped justify the cost. Ironically, we're getting more apartments anyway but sadly the opportunity has been lost.

[@ryanmiu5501]

13:30 "There's not really any space on roads in Carlingford for light rail" *Shows a 6-lane stroad connected to a 4-lane stroad* The space is there, we just need leaders with courage to leave the old car-centric mentality behind. (The NSW Government is actually planning to widen that particular intersection, smh)

[@XaviRonaldo0]

It provided a rail service directly to Rosehill Racecourse. About the only use for the line. I used to live in Dundas near Silverwater Rd. A long distance from the station.

[@aaronparkin5931]

Hey, this is brilliant! Have only just come across this and would love to see hear more on a Northern Beaches plan to fix public transport. I’ve lived here on the beaches now for 5yrs and it is terrible, especially after having it so good in Stockholm for 10yrs. If the idea of having the Metro continue through the beaches, at least put a Tram line in, which I believe was once there just like in the city! Would be awesome to watch some new vids on this, now 1yr later!? Have a good one, Cheers!! 😎✌️

[@kennylee8936]

Sadly...Minns confirmed that no metro will go to the beaches and that they'll be stuck with buses for now.

[@kenoliver8913]

It's yet another example of how in large metropolises people consistently overestimate the importance of lines radiating from the CBD and consequently underestimate the importance of circumferential lines enabling smooth suburb to suburb movement. It is a problem for road as well as public transport planning. Yes, no-one would have travelled from Parramatta to the CBD via Chatswood - but everyone travelling from western and southwestern Sydney (or points west and southwest of it) to northern Sydney (or points north of it) would have used that link. Plus, as you point out, Chatswood and Parramatta are fast growing cities in their own right anyway and would be more so if this link existed. I'll bet Costa's "only 15,000 users a day" estimate took no account of induced demand at all.

[@josephj6521]

Once the tram line is completed between Carlingford and Westmead via Parramatta, the residents around Carlingford/Dundas will get a rude shock. It’ll take much longer to get to the Sydney CBD or anywhere else other than Parramatta.

[@jack2453]

Another mystery of NSW transport planning. Why not leave the Camelia-Clyde section open and provide better two services to Parramatta as well as to the CBD at close to zero cost.

[@jagobbin2]

@@jack2453 probably to get rid of the level crossing on Parramatta Road

[@jack2453]

@@jagobbin2 Fair point. But a bridge or underpass would not be that expensive - alternatively it would't be the only traffic lights on Parramatta Road.

[@31tangovictor]

@@jack2453 They will be expensive due to the design: both proposals will most likely require Clyde Station and the associated sidings for the mechanised track inspection vehicle to be relocated or rebuilt which then adds to the cost (remember, a bridge has to be tall enough to allow current traffic to pass underneath while an underpass has to be protected against Duck Creek which runs alongside the alignment.

[@jayzo]

They could've turned the Carlingford line into a second spur of the Metro North West line providing a direct Metro route between Chatswood, Epping and Paramatta. Alternatively, it's relatively inexpensive to add another 3km of street running light rail to push the Light rail line to Epping. Ok, I've not seen the terrain in person, but our light rail in Manchester has some pretty steep gradients in places.

[@Gary-vv5gt]

I think can be doable at least extend the light rail carlingford court. And a new metro connecting from the bays, go via Rozelle/Balmain, Drummoyne, Gladesville, Top Ryde, West Ryde or Eastwood, Carlingford Court (to interchange with light rail there), North Rocks, Baulkham hill and connects with the current NWRL at Castle Hill or Hills showground, its can be connected with NWRL and even operate to Tallawong or do that circle or whatnot.

[@tippo5341]

Another interesting video...thank you for the effort and time you put into these stories...I always saw the Carlingford line a pointless line in the later years...in the times when Camellia and Rydalmere were more industry based it likely served more purpose...and of course when Rosehill had the races on patronage probably soared 😂😂😂😂 but yes...the end in the middle of nowhere was ultimately its death knell...hopefully the LR makes better use and receives higher patronage!!!!

[@cam4007]

Awesome work! I had no idea about this line's history.

[@2001cavador]

The Tallawong end of the metro line through Baulkham Hills is only about 5 km fro Schofields on the Richmond line.It would be good if the Transport for NSW to close this gap. If they did It would save a lot of time getting from say Riverstone to Rouse Hill or Castle Hill.

[@salt1956]

Excellent video. Well researched. If the new light rail utilises the old heavy rail corridor to Carlingford, making it faster and more efficient than using the roads for light rail tracks, why not extend the light rail from Carlingford to Epping via the cheaper, above-road option? Therefore, the light rail system from Parramatta to Epping would be just as quick as heavy rail, maybe even quicker. That's my offering. By the way, Dundas is pronounced 'DUNN-DASS'.

[@Coolsomeone234]

The T1 line would be so op if this ended up happening

[@jonatankelu]

The new Parramatta light rail retraces a good portion of the old Silverwater-Parramatta-Westmead/Castle Hill light and heavy rail that was dismantled in the early 1930s.

[@sydney5113]

Still feel that not extending the carlingford light rail to Epping is criminal misuse of infrastructure as it only provides one direction of peak hour commute towards a major employment centre. Extending it to Epping actually allows both directions to be utilised better as there would be enough people needing to travel towards epping too for change over to other modes of transport. The missing link between carlingford and epping could have been a quick way to get to Macquarie Park and Macquarie University too from Parramatta. Currently the only choice are the buses which needs to negotiate the epping road traffic. With many new jobs being created in Macquarie Park, this would have served a much larger commuter base which are taking the bus today. Also commuters around Parramatta area's travelling to north of harbour bridge towards St. Leonards, North Sydney could be more accessible with the faster NW Metro , rather than taking the Train into the CBD only to cross the harbour.

[@michaelcobbin]

Once Stage 2 is completed, Stage/Line 1 will get extended to Epping. Once the extension to Epping is completed, Stage 2/Line 2 will be extended to Rhodes. You are starting to see this with the Metro, once TfNSW gets close to completing one line, they start planning for the next.

[@dagwould]

I'd agree. The Parramatta to Chatswood link would have helped with the new focus on Parramatta as a major metro city. It would have facilitated commutes from the upper north shore and the NW area to Parramatta and the line would have really served a big market then. The challenge for a metro (I mean metropolitan) rail system is interlinking, not figuring out an A to B capacity. It is a total system with a global capacity augmented by cross links that open up more than just the linked points.

[@chanakaranasinghe9292]

Love these videos bro !

[@jack2453]

I don't think extending LR from Carlingford to Epping would be such a big deal; there is a straight route along a fairly wide Carlingford Road. Or if the roads lobby insist that taking two lanes would be the end of civilisation, you could run a one-way loop up Carlingford Road and down parallel roads - lots of European tram routes work like that (as did the Pitt-Castlereagh tram loop in Sydney). And while I take the points of LRT in tunnel, 3km of cut and cover under Carlingford Rd would be reasonably cheap and would probably show positive cost benefit because it would increase ridership on the metro.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

I do personally think Carlingford Road is too important and too busy to become two lanes. That one way idea could work, though. It's all theoretically feasible, but having read a report by the government from before the light rail was announced, they would prefer to extend it via Eastwoood and Macquarie Park, where reservations are wider and roads are quieter, as seen in my pinned comment.

[@jack2453]

@@BuildingBeautifully There are so many new roads in NW Sydney, public transport should be allowed to have some of the old ones back! Dundas-Eastwood-Macquarie Park was Parramatta Council's original preferred LR route (usuing the old county road reservation that I think you have covered before)

[@zedlicious]

Having lived in the zone for decades the missing link was obvious. Carlo road should have been widened - the land from front yards set aside to Carlingford court. It’s a massive oversight and masterclass in stupidity. To say patronage was too low, ummm, building and it would increase for access to parramatta and Westmead health precinct is desperately needed.

[@listohan]

I sometimes wonder if three cities is just a thought bubble. It won't happen without resetting some hard-core assumptions. And now we have the announcements about massively overbuilding Central station. Is there a matching announcement for either, much less both of the other cities? While all this is unfolding, Macquarie Park is becoming more residential with residents likely to be as interested in working in Parramatta as they might have been attracted to the CBD formerly.

[@Theincredibledrummer]

Carlingford Road is four lanes wide. Surely two lanes could converted to accommodate a surface LRT extension?

[@gingerqueer22]

nooooo, you can't hurt the poor drivers' feelings. they need their dangerous four-lane road, this is unfaaiir 😭

[@Voyagerthe2nd]

I traverse through the zone regularly and I can say that it's pretty terrible to drive through, especially along Pennant Hills Road south of the M2. I suspect that Northconnex, while improving PHR between the M2 and M1, made it worse along Carlingford

[@BuildingBeautifully]

I haven't noticed personally if it's worse, but yes, it's pretty bad. Always has been. It's a shame Carlingford has a massive highway tearing through the middle of it, honestly.

[@l.6993]

I was always of the understanding that the line was there to service the large factories east of Rosehill some of which had their own platforms on a spur line....

[@tjejojyj]

There are lots of transit videos on KZbin that share a defect with this one: a route orientated focus rail services. Transport needs to be considered as a complete system and the private motor vehicle is the primary mode for journey to work in the Sydney basin, except to the CBD. The integrated approach must focus on the fact that while most people in Sydney won't use public transport they will benefit from the reduced road congestion created by those who do. (It is also not commonly known that more public transport passengers cross the Harbour Bridge in a bus than do in a train. It would have be interesting to learn when the Carlingford line opened and its service frequency as heavy rail, its use a freight line. What was the logic of building it in the first place? How many people living more than 500 metres from a station will walk to that station? The zones discussion is fanciful because even if that link was built it would only serve a small percentage of people, not that whole area. Most of Sydney east of the A28 and excluding the Mosman to the northern beaches are within 3km of a passenger station. There is a strange "hole" at "north Greenacre/South Stranthfield" where you can stand next to a freight railway but be more than 3km from a station. Also: if the Carlingford line ends in the wrong place then so does the light rail. But the service frequency will be much higher than the old mode. The transfer to rail at Parramatta will require a two block walk but there will be two options to Sydney once the Bayside metro is finished. SUGGESTION FOR VIDEO - "Liverpool-Parramatta T-way" Please do a video on the "Liverpool-Parramatta T-way". As far as I know it completely failed to reach its ridership projections. Given it is 20 years old next month this would seem like a good time to review. Thanks for your excellent channel and congratulations on your growing viewership and subscribers. I hope my criticisms above are helpful.

[@tjejojyj]

The intimate relationship of passenger travel times on roads versus public transport is given by the the Downs-Thomson paradox which asserts "competing" options reach a point of travel time party because if the alternative was faster enough people would switch to create a new equilibrium. Obvious journey decisions aren't just made on questions of travel time but its a good place to start. The quality of public transport should be raised to the point where questions of safety and comfort are little different from private motor vehicles. I'm sure I'm telling you something you already know. I haven't seen any KZbin videos on this topic but a quick search shows there are some out there. (KZbin's algorithm had also failed to recommend your channel from me too, but that has now been rectified.)

[@dcliddell96]

Walked from the station to the temple across the road from the shops, that hill is a killer.

[@geoffreyhampson3993]

If you go back to when the line was privately owned the original intention was for it to go to Dural.

[@jonatankelu]

Yes, it was supposed to go from Carlingford to Castle Hill and then on from there.