THE CARTWHEEL - Banned Shot Put Technique!

[@irvinetustin]

The somersault long jump looked cool, but the spinning javelin technique looked like a way to randomly impale someone at a track meet.

[@aysiiou]

​@Elder Knight just with the usual technique another athlete got impaled maybe 10 years ago. So I guess there is no easy solution!

[@jkim3323]

The only thing that seems dangerous was the spinning javeline. Everything else is the commitee labeling something dangerous that they really have no reason to ban. You get injured for doing a simple thing as running 100m, everything is dangerous if you want to lable something dangerous. I bet the injuries caused by the cartwheel technique is not much different than the spinning technique or w/e

[@DazsdWTP]

@@jkim3323 the spinning one isnt for the thrower im pretty sure, dont want to impare a random person because you spun when throwing

[@jkim3323]

@@DazsdWTP i was talking about the spinning shot put technique

[@0anant0]

I actually read it as 'track meat' :-) when I saw the word 'impale'

[@nathanaelbreuer9554]

There aren't any weight classes in shotput. A technique like this allows for more competition from smaller or lighter people. So if it allows for more competition and more avaliable techniques, I think it makes the sport more interesting.

[@hairyairey]

And conversely the current rules favour larger athletes of questionable fitness!

[@drewe51]

It seems like it'd favor decathletes over dedicated specialists, which would be kinda weird because the decathlon event is supposed to mirror the stand alone event as much as possible.

[@felixlara2945]

Naw bruh I'm fairly certain Ryan Crouser could do it and that would be dangerous because his only competition would be an actual Canon

[@Novusod]

Fatties of questionable fitness didn't like the lightweights taking all their medals. Shotput was the fat kid sport and the judges intended to keep it that way.

[@ĆrankyÓldMan2024]

@@Novusodthat’s like calling Sumo Wrestling a fattie sport. Your logic is seriously flawed.

[@tristanwegner]

Compared to so many other sports with inverted movements, often up in the air, a cartwheel seems is very save. A honestly, looks more elegant and fluid than the other techniques.

[@chrisy.tet77]

I agree, I see no reason to tell a bunch of "athletes" that they can't do a cartwheel in competition because they may "injure themselves" 💀 If you can't do the better technique, L

[@TurboLazer-k2m]

Or consider the quadruple axel on figure skates over ice with no helmet. A cartwheel dangerous??

[@Cleanblue1990]

Considering all the dangers from some other sports, this is not something that needs to be banned. I'd love to see it, as it looks more spectacular

[@sownheard]

until it goes wrong and that person getting criticaly injured is your family member. and it all could have been prevented but they didn't because someone said ''I'd love to see it, as it looks more spectacular''

[@ennuiii]

​@@sownheardbro watch a highschool football game lmao

[@jakepullman4914]

Yeah, sports are dangerous. You know how many gymnasts have been killed or crippled for life? You can't push your body to be the best in the world without risk. And I would be proud to know someone who risked everything on their dream and lost rather than living their life in fear.

[@The_Ballo]

Olympics are a joke. Every sport they touch gets nerfed

[@jebise1126]

@@sownheard look at boxers.. they get critically injured left and right but nobody banned smashing head yet

[@Vivezoz]

They're all beautiful, and the evolution of technique and watching how it changes is amazing, they should've continued it

[@Vanlifecrisis]

One of the coolest things about shot put is the use of different technique and physics within the strict confines of the circle. Seeing how much force the human body can create. Shame they banned something doing that.

[@homiefizzle5260]

Not to shit on your love for the sport but I mean isn't every sport a combination of different techniques and physics within the confines of a court, field or boundary and the confines of rules 😅

[@westside4life1770]

@@homiefizzle5260dude your comment is ignorant, he’s specifically talking about generating the most force possible in such a little circle, by using different techniques. He thinks that’s cool. People are aloud to like certain things buddy, just because they recognize a certain sport doesn’t mean they disregard the rest of them. What if someone shits on something you like and think is really cool & interesting. Be better take your know it all bullshit somewhere else. Obviously any sport takes technique and physics into account. You’re pointing out the blatantly obvious and you sound retarded trying to criticize the guy for thinking this sport is interesting

[@Destiny2_Clips]

​@@homiefizzle5260 but the difference is the boundaries are very small compared to football or basketball

[@homiefizzle5260]

@@Destiny2_Clips because there are only 3 people in the ring, not 13 like in basketball (5 players each team and 3 refs) or football (no idea how many people... But it's a lot)

[@mena94x3]

@@homiefizzle5260 Just a fun FYI, the most players per sq ft in a team sport is volleyball. (not to mention it being a prime example of a game of physics and geometry! )

[@BillNicholsTV]

The one thing I learned here was that there was a spinning javelin - holy hell

[@JumpersJunction]

Ya go check out the the video on it. It’s wild! kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3bGY2yafZaHoJY

[@rook1196]

we haven't reached peak javelin until someone somersaults on the run up.

[@Leonidas-eu9bb]

I thought the same. People just like to spin for some reason.

[@MichaelChengSanJose]

That should never be banned. Plus, the javelins should have razor sharp tips for better flight!

[@stevethea5250]

2:50

[@vihtoripuurola3775]

I'd like to see the blindfolded spinning javelin throw introduced as a new event.

[@lyingcat9022]

Sounds reasonable

[@jeremyashford2115]

Just at the Gay Games or straight sports too?

[@klikitzsmith8416]

you get front row seats for coming up with this

[@chisaomusician7752]

You really can't improve without a blindfold.

[@k41ew]

That probably already exists in like Finland or something

[@GlorifiedGremlin]

I gotta say, that glide technique is just beautiful. So elegant yet violent

[@jonathanb1987]

I don't think this should have been banned. A technique was created to help smaller people compete. Brazilian Jujitsu was co developed and fine tuned for people who are smaller and weaker. Pushing the human body is what high level athletic competition is all about.

[@jessicalacasse6205]

the fun police strike again ...

[@Kettvnen]

​@@jessicalacasse6205i think its the IAAF who are the fun police

[@areyouavinalaff]

short ppl should compete in a short category if they can't compete with taller ppl doing regular technique. By your logic stupid ppl should be able to use computers because they'e not smart enough to compete in chess.

[@AcidDotDrop]

Or it would give smaller people an unfair advantage by access to a technique not viable for those who are taller but not stronger. Not to mention the higher risk of injuries, problems with comparability and so forth. If a technique is allowed, everyone has to be able to use this technique no matter their height, it's called a level playing field, everyone has the exact same rules to follow.

[@skunkybudtoker9092]

@@AcidDotDrop Bigger people always get the advantage, can't let the little people have one for once?

[@LuckkyCanuck]

I grew up in gymnastics. While smaller athletes would normally be at a disadvantage in shotput, I could see how a well executed cartwheel could generate enough force to level the playing field. Athletes should be able to utilize whatever gifts they were born with.

[@realalbertan]

Especially for multi eventers who tend to be smaller more agile

[@nutella3356]

Yes, but then trans athletes would be at a disadvantage. LOL

[@leonardothefabulous3490]

Just as there are rules and regulations in gymnastics, there's rules and regulations in Track & Field and every other sport. Often the rules are born of safety. There are things you can't do-for your own safety and I'm pretty sure this ridicules move was banded for this reason

[@shrimpy7862]

​​​@@leonardothefabulous3490 11 year old girls can literally cartwheel up and down the entire hallway of a school. Its stupidly easy with a little practice, and its really not much more dangerous than the spin technique, which is basically asking for a broken ankle.

[@Kevinschart]

No.. The rules are the rules. The shot put is a very specific sport. You also can't grab the ball with two hands. What you're asking is that the shotput become a new sport.

[@kombuculator]

Hey long time thrower here, might be able to add some context. This technique is mostly regarded as an interesting historical meme. It wasn't really ever competitive at any level. The point about adding 4-6ft to a standing throw is accurate (although maybe slightly exaggerated), but a simple step back will do that with none of the difficulty (and a proper glide or spin will add even more). If it weren't banned maybe it could find a niche among smaller teenage girl throwers, but I don't really see why anyone would do it asides the style points because 1) they'd get more distance learning the spin and 2) the spin is better long term because once they've grown up they'll probably be too big to fit a cartwheel in the circle. As for allowing smaller competitors to compete with bigger ones, this is already the case with both the glide and the spin. Firstly, the shot circle is intentionally too small - the bigger you are, the more you run out of room to generate max force. Therefore, the smaller athlete can move a bit more explosively than the bigger one. Having said that, until you're strong any additional strength you have is a huge advantage, so size (or height) comes fourth to how strong you are, how explosively you can use it & your technique level. Put another way, if you have 2 similarly strong athletes but one is small and the other is big, the difference will come down to their technical skill. As for overcoming a large strength gap, I don't really think it's possible unfortunately. You can in the other throws though, especially hammer throw! So if you like throwing but aren't viking sized you should try hammer throw! Hammer really just comes down to technique, I've lost count how many national level competitions I've seen (especially in the juniors) where the smallest competitor won. None of the above is saying cartwheeling should've been banned though, would be interesting to see if it could be viable in the niche of high school level women's shot put.

[@bradistic]

The video didn't say the 4-6ft was compared to their standing throw, it think it's safe to assume its compared to their other technique. It seems like this would be good for heptathletes and decathletes.

[@cheerdiver]

The Dunning/Kruger bubble wasn't acknowledged until 1992. IMO, this technique is safer and harder. You don't transition the load from a lower starting point, making it harder. The load follows the torso's momentum, allowing more leg/ab power to be applied. Fewer arm injuries. If you watch artistic gym (BB), you can see where it will evolve to a stationary cartwheel.

[@Rystefn]

"but I don't really see why anyone would do it asides the style points" Literally the entire reason for all gymnastics competitions, skateboarding, figure skating, dance, etc. We do a lot of things for style points, really.

[@monsesh1316]

You're lying, you're glad that it's ban because you cant do a proper cartwheel shot put unlike your smaller frames competitor.

[@lkrnpk]

But shot put does not have style points, just the distance is important

[@Tumbolisu]

Banning techniques due to them being dangerous is understandable, but something is lost. I want to see what crazy things humans are capable of when given a simple goal. It's why watching people complete videogames within minutes by doing things nobody ever considered can be so entertaining.

[@notmyname3681]

It's why I love skateboarding. No rules, even in competition there's basically just a time limit on your run. One guy or girl, a board, a ramp or park... Impress us with your crazy stuff.

[@LeNoLi.]

They also need to permit steroids. Who knows how many people are getting away with it now? Just make it an even playing field. And push the human body to its limits.

[@notmyname3681]

@@LeNoLi. just no.. you understand what steroids do to people, right?

[@ShadowMoon878]

@@LeNoLi. Steroids is basically cheating. So instead of working or training out hard to achieve your potential, you just take gear? You might as well allow implants and machinery to assist them. Hell, might as well allow men to just call themselves women and compete against other women!

[@ShadowMoon878]

@@notmyname3681 Skating competitions have rules too. No motorised skateboards allowed. And in vert competitions, once your feet touches the floor, your run is over. Park competitions are much more forgiving to account for accidental bails.

[@graham1403]

This is a thing on throw-ins in soccer too. Our girls team had some with gymnastics training and one of them worked out how to do a front handspring over the ball then use their momentum to send it flying much further than any of the boys team could throw normally, we were in awe.

[@JuliusBriggs]

this has been a thing in professional football for quite some time I find it highly unlikely that she figured that out on her own and much rather probably just saw it being used in a clip and then tried re-creating it but if not massive props to her

[@F_a_V1]

I had the same exact experience 😂. I thought that shit was illegal, but then they just kept playing. Me and the guys definitely couldn't do that shit.

[@AlexAnder-rv1gu]

And anyone who claims "unfair" is just upset that a) they didn't think of it first and b) they can't physically do it.

[@Zxv975]

@@JuliusBriggs why is that what you fixate on? Like you're probably right and she didn't invent it or anything, but regardless it's super weird to get all like "that teenage girl was a liar!" Not only that, the person telling the story probably just misspoke or was recounting the story wrong. You're not even refuting first hand information.

[@9xqspx6]

Why stop the innovation and improvement?

[@michelefurci3506]

-Commission: "The cartwheel is dangerous!" -Gymnastics: "Hello!"

[@KasumiRINA]

Gymnastics and figure skating will ban everything black girls can do but russians can't and allow everything only russians do that's impossible to learnw orhiut copious amounts of doping. Always.

[@johnprentice1527]

I understand the reason the IAAF banned the javelin spin technique: it's not technically a throw. I also understand the rules regarding the shot having to be propelled from the chin: that makes the technique a "put" rather than a "throw". It's called the shotPUT for a reason. But the evolution of the various body orientations and movements within the circle kind of argue against the ban on this new technique. If safety is the issue, then maybe; as in the ban for the somersault long jump. I think the IAAF should reverse its decision.

[@davidegaruti2582]

yeah the javelin spin could endanger other pepole , since the throw isn't controlled ... but really both the somersault and the cartweel where risks the atlete was taking and not putting anyone else in it ...

[@ClintonChelak]

When I heard the safety argument in the video, I chuckled. On that same field, we're launching people meters into the air with a pole.

[@BologneyT]

​@@ClintonChelak All intense sports are injuries waiting to happen. It's funny, I guess, but the question in sports, I think, is a ratio of coolness to danger. How much does any thing in a sport increase the number and severity of injuries, compared to how much cooler it makes the competition. Once you accept that the sport should even be played at all (like the pole vault ^^; ) then you look at the coolness-to-danger ratio, I guess.

[@ClintonChelak]

@trumpisthemessiah7017 I hope you're real. In those three comments alone, I picture you screaming for a whole 15 minutes like you were in a DBZ episode where Goku was losing (minus commercials, of course).

[@BologneyT]

​@Trump Is The Messiah Ending careers in only a few throws can't be correct, because if it was, shot putters would never be able to get the practice reps in that they'd have to to be able to use that technique in competition in the first place, and our bodies usually aren't designed for any of the major things we do in sports besides running and lifting. Certainly not shot put. But you're right about safety in this way. Except the committee seemed to be concerned more about head injuries here.

[@Rude_i_Wredne]

Really depends on the risk factor. I'm not a professional, so it's hard to tell. Spinning javelin definitelly crosses the line, cause that's what nets in other throws are for, but cartwheel looks like it's safe when done right (I mean very low randomness factor, definitelly lower than spinning put, which is allowed) and it could be an edge for more acrobatic people over sheer mass to generate more momentum. And it's also cool to watch.

[@hectorvido]

It is funny to see someone completely calm around that movement.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

I think the actual problem is how this technique would progress when optimized. What is striking to me about this technique is that the athlete is not starting in a position where her muscles can do a lot of work (really, the leg muscles don't add much energy until she cartwheels into a throwing motion). Most of the extra kinetic energy during the cartwheel comes from a change in center of mass. This is why the athlete is standing tall at the start (seeming to maximize starting center of mass). Thus, the technique would evolve as follows. Change 1: Raise one leg as high as possible and bring it down like a baseball pitcher before doing the cartwheel (Roughly doubles the potential energy change from start to throw if the thrower is flexible... straight leg is preferred). Probably still safe. Change 2: Leap straight up as high as possible, roll/cartwheel into a throw. 4-5 times more energy from the roll. More technical, less controlled, and much higher forces involved. Probably not safe.

[@laughingmute608]

@@hypothalapotamus5293 There was footage of girls already raising their leg, just not the same way as a pitcher. They are straight and then whipped back to create a greater centripetal force to aid in the cartwheel. The next evolution would just be to transfer to an ariel (no hand cartwheel). The danger beyond landing on your head is the accidental release of the put as your are coming back up potentially having it land you top of you.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

@@laughingmute608 The leg raise is present to some extent in some of the athletesbshown, but not as pronounced as a perfected leg raise would likely be. As for physics terminology, if a free body diagram were drawn, you would probably be most concerned with torque, angular acceleration, and angular momentum ( look up the meaning of centripetal force). This way of doing things is a pain so it's easier just to do an energy accounting of potential energy, translational kinetic energy, rotational kinetic energy, and work done by muscles. The other divider is the energy in the thrower's body (wasted at time of throw) and the energy in the projectile. In this energy focused description, my statement about maximizing potential energy before the cartwheel is initiated is very defensible.

[@bverji]

I have a hard time buying that the likelihood you could get seriously injured doing a cartwheel is more than running hurtles or pole-vaulting.

[@adamstevens5518]

I lol’d pretty hard at the spinning javelin technique. Thanks for that:) The cartwheel shot-put technique is beautiful to watch with the right practitioner. Sorry I don’t have an opinion on if it should be banned. I see the safety risk for novices, but lots of things are unsafe if not practiced sufficiently. Mixed thoughts.

[@JumpersJunction]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!

[@teeemm9456]

Yea, I feel like it gives lighter throwers an option rather than bulking up. Instead of banning it, I think it would be better to adjust the rules slightly so it conforms. To me, there is very little difference between this and spinning around rapidly. One is vertical, thrusting the entire torso, the other is horizontal, thrusting how ever much of the torso can be contorted along the horizontal plane. One benefits a more lithe, flexible frame, the other a bulkier, heavy frame.

[@memyname1771]

Of course, there is a safety risk. Is skiing banned. What about BMX and boxing? Various other sports have safety issues and steep learning curves to perfect abilities to the point of being competitive. As with any other sport, training and practice reduce the risks. Don't stifle new techniques, just because you as a judge don't have the ability to use those techniques.

[@tenzek4635]

@@memyname1771 Of course not. Shot put isn't banned either, but just like shot put, all of those sports you mentioned do have rules that make certain possible actions illegal.

[@memyname1771]

@@tenzek4635 And as noted, the techniques (slide, spin, etc.) of shot put have evolved, while requiring the athlete to remain within the circle. The cartwheel is simply another step in the evolution of the event. Why, in your opinion, should this technique be illegal?

[@diyhard666]

What a great Video. Straight to the meat without further ado. I wish all modern videos were like this.

[@watcherworld5873]

I can definitely see why they banned the spinning javelin technique. The judges were fearing for their lives. 🤣

[@KasumiRINA]

But hammer and disc are always thrown spinning. Javelin would've been the same, so, boring.

[@birdontrencxb]

First time I’ve heard of spinning javelin technique. Tried it and line judge is now lying unconscious from shock

[@kevingilliam6807]

Liar, you know you ran him through!

[@valkymia3708]

Shock? Or impalement.

[@birdontrencxb]

@@valkymia3708 shock

[@birdontrencxb]

@@valkymia3708 definitely shock

[@EaglePicking]

@@birdontrencxb It must be shock, right?

[@aodoemela]

Why do they ban all the cool stuff?

[@JumpersJunction]

lol

[@jigeah]

Because of a shitty word spelled "safety", which in itself means retarded.

[@bomorald236]

I do agree, but it’s for safety reasons, just like my school doesn’t allow to wear other clothes than the schools expensive and trashy clothe “for safety reasons”

[@XxTR1D]

Agreed, I don’t think most of the things should be banned. (Except spinning javelin, whoever invented that is a menace)

[@jmarchery2038]

​@@bomorald236 you live in the USA I take it?

[@TrapGod_JackofAllTrades]

That's awesome. You are turning yourself into a trebuchet by using your legs as counterweight. Who ever thought of that is really smart.

[@chazercize1330]

If they allow rotation along the vertical axis (Baryshnikov) then the horizontal axis should be allowed as well: otherwise, ban both techniques. Men typically carry more mass in the torso, which pushes the center of gravity higher, so women should be allowed to use techniques that facilitate their physiques.

[@Lord.Kiltridge]

“The more I know, the more I realize I know nothing.” ― Socrates

[@yvrelna]

I don't think it should be banned. Safety concerns with athletes at Olympic level are silly, IMO. If they are banning this for safety reasons at your local competition, then that's understandable. But at the Olympic level, these are peak human at their peak performance, not your average Joe in the gym. They practiced this move hundreds of thousands of times, and probably did actually fell hundreds or thousands of times. As the video said, cart wheeling in such a restricted area isn't an easy skill. In the highest level of the competition, the rules should've respected the athlete's dedication to their art and the effort they went through to perfect their skills. They knew the risks, and they decided to take a shot. I think it's only fair that they're allowed to show the results of their hard work.

[@xelp435]

Yea plus legit everything they do has a injury risk

[@MrTheboffin]

for me it depends on how catastrophic the injuries can be. Banning the summer sault for ice skating and arguably the long jump is understandable since failing to fully rotate could cause massive damage to the neck and head, even training up to this is risky in these cases. So I can see why it would be discouraged. With shotput though I don't have the ipression the risks are as high, the speeds involved are much lower, an you will always have some cushioning coming from the arm on the ground. Also training up to it is much safer

[@skya6863]

I do not agree since i want the winner to be the one that has the edge over others in explosive power, not the one who was more flexible than the others

[@pricrd22]

I agree with this except that spinning javelin technique was freaking bonkers.

[@placeholder3863]

@@skya6863 but it ends up generating more explosive power

[@WHS_reviews]

Notes: 1) Parry O'Brien did not invent the glide, I noticed years ago that a swedish guy did it already in 1936 at the olympics. O'Brien popularised and possibly reinvented the technique. I placed a comment about this with the 1936 olympics video long ago as nobody else seems to have noticed this fact... 2) experiments with rotation started in the late 1940s but Baryshnikov was the first who used it really succesfully. 3) banning the cartwheel makes no sense, it is clearly not dangerous and far less dangerous than anything in gymnastics.

[@WHS_reviews]

Addition: I checked and that the video with which I originally commented on this technique is gone. This was titled "1936, Shot Putt, Men, Olympic Games, 1936". This seems the same video as "1936 Summer Olympics - Berlin - Men's Shot Put Final" that "The Running Archive" put up 2 years ago. See the Swede at 1:11 with almost the modern technique. You can also see it in Riefenstahl's olympic film "Leni Riefenstahl: Olympia - Festival of Nations (1936)" from the channel "Storia del cinema" at 49:28. ----- My original comment from 2019 with that 1st (now removed) video was: "The Swede at 1:11 already throws with a technique that is almost the one Parry O'Brien used (and became famous for), 1 other guy comes close to that technique of the Swede, the others as far as can be made out (many of those closeups are useless!) throw with a clumsy old technique... So that's quite illuminating and makes clear that O'Brien actually only slightly improved on what some others already did decades earlier..."

[@Jivvi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKmul2OsYq2XiKcm11s for anyone looking for it. He does indeed use a glide technique.

[@nuclearcrayons3511]

we need more people like you! Keeping the record straight, I respect that ^_^

[@clayanderson4058]

I am amazed that I have never heard of the Cartwheel shotput technique! Ingenious. You failed to mention the banned backflip high jump technique. Thanks for a fascinating eye opener.

[@JumpersJunction]

Thanks for watching! And ya check out the video I did on that technique also!

[@timn4481]

its not really ingenious because it doesnt give any advantage.

[@tappajaav]

@@timn4481 "some are adding 4-6' to their throws"

[@hairyairey]

Is that the same as the two legged high jump? Basically what gymnasts can do.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

@@timn4481 A more pronounced version of this is the flip throw in soccer, which can be summarized as taking the energy of the human vody dropping 1m and putting it into a ball (roughly 600 extra joules). The advantage confered by the cartwheel alone is less (probably a 0.2m drop). I think the video is also missing that a lot of the athletes have a leg kick before, which means a roughly .3 m drop. If they did a full try hard leg extension, it would be 0.4m. Thus, it is about 150-300 extra Joules compared to a stationairy throw in an 80 kg person. So, it does do something. I think that this should be competitive with step back techniques in moderately high level women's events and low level men's (It becomes less competitive when expected power output/weight increases and less competitive if the legs aren't flexible).

[@Yvaelle]

Jumpers Junction: "And the spinning javelin technique" Me: "The What??"

[@greenman5255]

Technically, the ball would be "below the shoulder" when the athlete was upside down, so it was already breaking the rule.

[@gothard5]

This is fascinating. I had no idea there were shot put techniques other than the spin. Never seen a somersault long jump either.

[@quantum_beeb]

That spinning javelin technique looks insanely dangerous haha I would be diving for cover if I was nearby

[@bola5671]

😂😂😂

[@gwamhurt]

I think the cartwheel technique seems like an awesome way to even out the competition. As it is you can't really be at the top of the sport without being a giant and heavily muscled. Thinner body types that struggle to build as much muscle can take advantage of then better mobility to even out that playing field by doing a cartwheel technique that a larger and stronger competitor may not be able to do.

[@RipleySawzen]

But being bigger is a natural advantage. Cartwheel is giving smaller people an unnatural advantage.

[@Rr-tz5gg]

​@@RipleySawzenwhy is it unnatural?

[@dapz]

@@RipleySawzenwith your logic, the normal spinning technique that’s used today is also an unnatural advantage

[@loplop019]

Which is why it's banned

[@eustacequinlank7418]

@@RipleySawzen You're dim.

[@drummingspain207]

A spinning javelin? What could possibly go wrong?!! lol

[@ctakitimu]

If the spinning javelin technique was still allowed, I'd be bringing a tower shield to the event

[@DeadlyPlatypus]

2:11 It's also important to note that the female shot weighs 8.8 lbs, and the male shot weighs 16 lbs. Attempting the technique with a shot that's nearly DOUBLE the mass might have more to do with it than flexibility...

[@Oggydoggy1989]

Love seeing biomechanics getting used to the limits. Love the video.

[@philosofree]

It is absolutely insane that people used to throw the javelin after spinning. Absolutely insane.

[@thewayfarer1571]

If you allow the Fosbury flop in high jump you should allow this highly skilled version. It adds to the drama and excitement!

[@orbbb24]

Track and field is already about being trimmer (relative as sprinters are still very muscular and large compared to average people) and athletic. The big boys didn't want to lose one of the only events they have :P

[@HammerShock23]

Most javelin athletes tend to be more of the 'fit and trim' type. At the high school level you see many shot and discus throwers that don't fit the traditional thrower body type (though they tend to get taller and heavier in college and beyond).

[@kimoralashawn3273]

I would love to see Ryan Crouser do this 😂

[@939Aed]

You could still do an aerial. Actually, there is a theoretical continuum of techniques from a rotational (spin) technique, to a side aerial, to a fully inverted aerial. Someone get an athlete with martial arts/parkour/break dance/hip hop dance and see if they can try some of these innovations.

[@caststagemysteries]

SciFi movie material.

[@tappajaav]

@@caststagemysteries Hardly.

[@surfbouy]

Way back in the early/mid 1980s, there was a long jumper at the University of Oregon who competed using the flip technique. He wasn't our best jumper at that time, but he'd consistently get on the podium and score points. I'll never understand why they nanned that technique. It was very entertaining to watch.

[@SoulFullZapatas007]

Dick Fosbury- Fosbury Flop

[@elizabethhenning778]

Because it's dangerous if you don't have really good spatial awareness and it creates an arms race. Track and field isn't gymnastics.

[@harrycake9407]

​@@elizabethhenning778bro it's just a simple spin, just like a simple jump you can hurt yourself, you could even argue the roll is safer because of the softer landing...

[@elizabethhenning778]

@@harrycake9407 And you can also under-rotate and land on your neck, "bro."

[@Mario-us7ds]

@@elizabethhenning778 high risks, high rewards

[@bobjimenez4464]

I threw the shotput for 6 years and feel that any technique used while staying within the circle should be allowed for competition. The circle is pretty small and it takes instantaneous acceleration to yield good results. Why not allow the use of centripetal force normal to the plane of measurement to generate some mechanical force through leverage? That sport probably caused the need to have my right knee replaced many years later but I don't regret participating.

[@graphthis2249]

This is a really cool innovation. Also sidenote, I wish my school teachers taught us the step back method instead of the spin, it seems like something I would have been able to do more effectively lol.

[@thewhy13]

i wish schools would stop teaching this "sport" in general

[@graphthis2249]

@@thewhy13 shot put specifically or track and field in general? Either way why?

[@thewhy13]

@@graphthis2249 no this one specifically , i mean how am i staying fit and healthy by throwing a rock -.-

[@BigManDaichi]

@@thewhy13 It's...What? This is a competition, not the workout.

[@thewhy13]

well its stupid one @@BigManDaichi

[@gordonwaldner9792]

I fail to see anything wrong with an innovative technique. As long as the circle if not violated and the shot is firmly in contact with the neck there is nothing wrong.

[@totalunconcern]

@@YTPremium1 suitable comment for someone with that name lol

[@cathleenc6943]

@@YTPremium1 but the rule saying no was written after the tequnique was well into practice. It hasn't been shown to be a safety problem, and the only real reason might be that it is a tequnique favored by women. If momentum increasing movements were to be considered unfair, the spinning tequnique would have been banned as well.

[@Lukashoffmann94]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@cathleenc6943The rules back then still stated, that the Hand with the ball shall be close to the neck and shall not drop below that position. Cartwheeling clearly drops the ball far below the starting position. Even today you aren’t allowed to drop it below shoulder height.

[@cathleenc6943]

@@Lukashoffmann94 if the hand holding the ball stays at the neck during the inversion of the one-handed cartwheel, then no, the hand has not dropped or moved from that position. If it was clear back then, it would never have become a trend enough for professionals to do it in competition. The first person to try it would have been disqualified.

[@anonymoose2474]

@@cathleenc6943 No it wasn't, the technique was never in major practice. The comment about it "adding 4 to 6 feet" is so misleading, in context that quote means 4 to 6 feet longer than a normal throw, not 4 to 6 feet more than a spin technique

[@debmunsell1720]

I threw shot put in high school an college. My coach tried to encourage me to use the spin technique, but I did better with the glide style. Wow I can't imagine doing a one arm cartwheel an then chuck the iron, would have been cool to try.

[@mifster83]

so annoying that some ppl are hating and banning this movement cuz they cant do it

[@CruentusDK1]

"A cartwheel is too dangerous", was the most hilarious thing I heard all day. They are throwing large "balls" and "spears", but a cartwheel is where they draw the line. Ridiculous.

[@madsleonardholvik3040]

It's beautiful to see them perform this! It takes alot of ability to be able to do this and make it actually effective.

[@chazmuska]

I think the Cartwheel would be more effective because you're generating power not only in the x but y direction as well....so I feel like you could get better hang time (assuming you mastered the technique).

[@MeepMeep88]

LOL the spinning javelin technique... That definitely would create some controversy.. Especially for the impaled hahaha

[@JumpersJunction]

Ya go check out the the video on it. It’s wild! kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3bGY2yafZaHoJY

[@zdrux]

It is a measure of your bodies ability to throw the ball, everybody should be free to find the best method using their body.

[@orusandornots1915]

I did track and field when I was in highschool. Shotput, javelin and discus were my events. I learned the Spin technique for shotput and discus. Looking back on it, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to give athletes options for different techniques to see which works best for them and perhaps when they fully understand the mechanics of an event they might even be one of those few athletes who adapt and create their own efficient technique.

[@liesier90]

I used to be 1st in my age group for girls (in primary- and high school) in shot put from the first year i was eligible to participate until final highscool year. In some years you compete with girls in the grade above you. Still won. Still have all the certificates. I was one of the skinniest girls in class. You would expect an athlete in this category to be more masculine or have more weight to their advantage. Me: No cartwheels, no special tactics or special training. Grew up on a farm and practiced with rocks in our garden. I did not do the cartwheel, but would not hold it against a competitor if they did and respect the white circle boundary around them. How you build momentum within boundaries around you should be respected and rewarded.

[@matthewrowell8518]

Think a good 70% in all throwing events is technique based. Strength and speed are important also but without a solid technique getting the whole body in line to put the ball it’s really just coming down to arms and shoulders. Back when i competed I wasn’t the biggest on the national scene but typically would outperform them as they just relied on strength alone.

[@Benbentilk]

Spinning javelin sounds terrifying to be watching from the stands.

[@JG-PyroTX]

The spinning javelin is the most terrifying thought ever.

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

Don't even get me started on the spinning javelin pole vault. It's insanity.

[@BeachLookingGuy]

spinning javelin looks terrifying! i was shocked people are standing there watching. what if the thrower loses track of their spin and throws off target?

[@mosesacovera1015]

Don’t know how this channel got recommended to me, but this was an interesting and informative video. Like your content!

[@PaulMarostica]

That's a surprisingly clever, impressive and effective technique.

[@eddjordan2399]

this should still be allowed.

[@raylopez99]

Reminds me of holding weights in ancient Greek Olympics and jumping. Supposedly they jumped for 60 feet (18.29 meters) probably with some advanced techniques but I see that for the triple jump, the world record is exactly this! Of course not holding weights, which you threw backwards when you jumped, and that gave you an extra "boost" due to the laws of conservation of momentum.

[@redhammer5783]

Throwing the wieghts backwards is a pretty cool concept to think about lol.

[@SVJoe]

spinning javelin gave me lawn dart memory flashbacks

[@Impact009]

This is just another example of one of the many ways to prevent the very best athletes from being too far ahead of everybody else.

[@ferrari250tr]

By banning a meme technique that isn't competitive?

[@caltriton6904]

That spinning javelin looks lethal.🤕

[@infradig696]

It clearly breaks the rule "The put shall not drop below this position (shoulders) during the action of putting". They're trying the change the definition of "below the shoulders". Even if you're upside down, it's still considered below that position because your shoulders are above the put.

[@krayzoman]

I am a firm proponent of 2 categories for any event; 1) Like now, rules for safety within reason, to level the field and provide more room for tactics. 2) Double sized field and anything goes within basic rules so long as no energy comes from outside the athlete(s) (like a motorized prothesis). Weapons, augments, drugs, 'deformities', who cares. I wanna see the 'Crack, Marfan, and Fins' version of Olympic Swimming, the 'Best Bladed Slide vs Best Planted Greaves' version of Baseball. The Beyblade version of Curling. Cartwheels are only scratching the surface of what's possible.

[@cousinzeke4888]

I want to see a track event where the only way to pass someone is to floor them.

[@Weeniehutnurse]

I want to see crackheads in the Olympics

[@asmithgames5926]

Full-contact allowed.

[@jasondilissio3916]

I took the title literally and was intrigued regarding its positivity. My enjoyment increased exponentially to experience an entire review dripping with sarcasm. I’ve listened to it multiple times just to experience a masterpiece of sarcasm.

[@michaellong4897]

Cartwheel technique should be kept. It’s the next Fosbury Flop.

[@Fiveyin]

Being a athletes itself is dangerous which is why they train as hard as they do, I don't think banning is the way to go. Bother American football and Soccer (football) are all dangerous from broken bones to concussions and trampling with cleats. If you want to ban one shot putting tech for danger you have whole sports that have more injuries and retirements than most sports combined

[@jackieking1522]

The somatotype of the cart wheelers looked somewhat closer to average than that of the spinners. Seems sad to have banned a technique that might have helped a wider range of body types to be competetive. But then..double stringing of tennis rackets, superman handle bars, and no doubt lots of other arbitrary bannings.... usually to maintain some status quo.

[@ninjalectualx]

"This technique is how most young athletes are trained" When I did track and field in high school I didn't get any instruction at all, they just gave us a ball and I ended up hurting myself 😭😭😭😭

[@originsdecoded3508]

I really liked this format of the presentation. It was short, straight to the point, with all the info unpacked without countless minutes of fluffing fillers. reminds me of the tiktok style.

[@TheCommanderFluffy]

I'll tell you right now that if the Olympics did cartwheel shot putting I would actually watch for once.

[@Drillbitayler]

I get the spinning javelin getting banned (and honestly there's no way that would add distance). But the front flip jump and cartwheel should ABSOLUTELY still be allowed. I'm sorry, but if you're going to allow spinning in shotput, then I can't see why spinning vertically instead of horizontally should be illegal? I was a shot putter who only used the glide, but if someone could do a cartwheel shot put then more power to them!

[@UsernameXOXO]

It absolutely adds distance if you time it right but the javelin has to travel further as it curves in the air.

[@jolox.]

They should allow like the Fosbury Flip!

[@YourFitnessQuest]

I had no idea there was a cartwheel shot put, but the summersault long jump and spinning javelin looked insane. I can't believe that was ever a thing.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

That spinning javelin added lots of distance and utterly destroyed any accuracy.

[@Trancymind]

Emperor Marius has unbanned all these banned moves.

[@Earthmandolin]

Fat guys can't cartwheel, that's my guess why it was banned . Women was probably showing up the men

[@robertbiolsi9815]

As long as it's just you and the shotput and you stay within the boundaries it should be a legal throw

[@everydaybodybuilding2282]

Spinning javelin looks hilariously dangerous

[@jayff0000]

I'd be interested to see what the safety data actually is. I don't want athletes getting injured all the time, but it seems to me, to an extent, the meta of the sport changes and you adjust / learn how to perform / teach the new technique safely & reliably. And it just seems in the spirit of the competition to see who can throw the furthest - full stop.

[@nmartin5551]

A woman a year ahead of me in High School earned a scholarship to Harvard with her Shot put skills. Of course the scholarships there are based on academic merit, so once she destroyed her shoulder as a freshmen, she still finished her Harvard education on scholarship. Which isn’t to say it is dangerous, but as in all things, people can get injured.

[@nmartin5551]

@@bambooprincess3495 -While I wouldn’t encourage you to believe that everything you see on the internet is true, what part is hard for you to believe. That a high school classmate was a state champion field athlete, that she went to Harvard, that Division B schools offer academic scholarships to qualified athletes (HS quarter back from my school also went to Harvard in same circumstance), or that collegiate athletes sometimes get hurt? As for not having anything to do with the comment, there was a discussion of safety data, which implies a question of injury.

[@jayff0000]

@@bambooprincess3495 I'm not really invested enough to research it. But seemed to me from the video that it was a competitive technique, and frankly I'm guessing if it wasn't athletes wouldn't have been trying it. If you disagree, discussions are great you can say what you think and why (as you have to an extent). But why you gotta come after other people who respond to me in the comments, and also sprinkle your responses to me with little bits of venom, laughing at my luke warm non funny takes. Some people just want to chat on the internet, you don't have to put yourself in opposition to everyone, people don't all have some agenda or hidden motives. Just take it at face value and have discussions like a normal ass person.

[@jayff0000]

​@@bambooprincess3495 Never asked you to do anything for me. - You responded 7 times to my original comment and 2 replies from someone else. - Quoted me followed by lol before making your point. - Added in a duh I'm not sure in response to who. - Accusing the other person of lying for seemingly no reason didn't lend to a charitable reading of the rest of your comments. - Now you've built me up into someone with no knowledge or common sense and other negative attributes. My assertions were: 1. Safety data would be interesting 2. If new techniques emerge you might learn to teach them safer and more effectively over time 3. Seems like shotput should be about throwing the furthest without too many other restrictions 4. If athletes are trying that technique, they must at least believe it could be effective May or may not mean that the cartwheel technique actually performs better. But they are pretty mild logical leaps, as I'm just engaging with the video with a few thoughts. Frankly I was interested in this a month ago when I commented, now I don't care that much. Everything you said read to me like it was with contempt. I basically asked you to chill, and you doubled down. Even took my very indirect poke of asking you to talk with us like a normal ass person (without contempt) and you twisted that back into a direct insult by calling me not normal. Whole exchange has been pretty unpleasant though, so I'll read your response if you want to make one, let you have the last word, but I'm done.

[@jayff0000]

@@bambooprincess3495 The video we are commenting under obviously. And you don't know shit about what I can or can't do.

[@apkungen89]

This should definitely be legal!! Dangerous? So dumb to ban it...

[@paulgush]

Right! By the same logic, they should ban pole vaulting

[@NerdLifts]

They should unban this. It'd be cool to have smaller more agile athletes be able to use technique to overcome strength and size.

[@SP30305ATL]

LOL, *this* is too dangerous, but literally everything in women's gymnastics is more dangerous and allowed. I mean, nevermind the balance beam and uneven bars, just the floor routines are multiple times more flips and spins! Just a poor excuse to ban something they didn't like.

[@wss33]

They wouldn't overcome strength and size.

[@mattstokes9624]

That spinning javelin throw literally make me flinch.

[@Joebloe-be5rw]

It's aesthetically pleasing to watch. Kind of like a smooth baseball swing.

[@JustinKase1969]

To me it seems no more dangerous then half the stuff they do in gymnastics, and it is a way for a smaller frame person to equalize with a larger frame who can't do the cartwheel in the space. So it pits technique v. brute force (not that the brute force doesn't have its own technique).

[@hurkyl1560]

You do gymnastics routines in an area that is prepared for people doing gymnastics routines, do you not? E.g. cushioned mats that can protect people who fall.

[@sesshonuyasha]

They should allow it to keep it interesting for the viewers and a little innovation breathes new life into events like this

[@ferrari250tr]

Viewers would never see it though, because this technique would never make you a top athlete.

[@QuincelSC]

This really doesn't seem that dangerous, after some training.

[@thewisefool4049]

My main takeaway from this is that there used to be a spinning javelin technique.

[@markkaiser7954]

I can't think of anything more athletic than doing a cartwheel before you launch a heavy shotput. It's the same idea as the spinning technique just on a tilted axis. They probably banned it because women came up with it.

[@fitveganathleteintegrateda1695]

As long as you stay in the circle and keep the shot at or in front of and above the shoulder line, leaving one hand, it should be legal. Leaving one foot in the jumps is all that should matter in the long and high jumps -- how far did you jump or how high did you jump. The javelin, may be another matter, but I do think a reverse at the end of the throw should be legal.

[@Kevinschart]

no

[@LiveDonkeyDeadLion]

0:39 you ‘put’ the ‘shot’ the furthest. It comes from cannons and the shot that is fired from them, and the carriers would need to put the shot close to the guns. Then they started throwing them to get them closer to the guns, so they still put the shot close to the guns. So they were shot putters, and they don’t technically throw it, they are putting it and there are rules about them not throwing it

[@Tygearianus]

What’s really amazing is how in a world as technology driven as we are we still care so much as to who can throw a ball furtherest and year after year we practice for the honour of throwing it potentially a little bit farther

[@reedy_9619]

We live in an advanced society, fun has been abolished, don’t have fun, no fun allowed here, move along. Yeah im being a bit dishonest, but humans still use their bodies and their mind hasnt changed much overtime, makes sense we still like doing the same things, especially throwing stuff, it’s one of the most accessible things.

[@itheuserfirst3186]

Throwing is a fundamental human trait. We are uniquely built for it. Shot put is like any strength contest. Technique and sheer power. Watching people defeat others with their movements is literally why we watch any sport competition.

[@GlorifiedGremlin]

Hey I think its fair play man, especially cuz its limiting based on anatomy. Women are using their natural gifts in order to close the distance between male and female strength. I think thats awesome, if their flexibility and smaller bodies offer them an advantage, let them use it!

[@iiGingiey]

I love how simply the band cartwheels, no technical jargon or potentially misinterpreted language, just a note that say no cartwheels

[@mattjhodgkinson79]

Men: Innovate by spinning horizontally. Athletics: Cool. Women: Innovate by spinning vertically. Athletics: BANNED.

[@tormondbloodshield6064]

I do understand the concern of safety. Spinning javelin is probably the best example of this. That looks insanely dangerous 😮.

[@ianmccurdy1223]

Spinning javelin is a danger for the spectators, whereas the cartwheel shot put is only a danger for the athlete. It doesn't really make sense to conflate the two. Also, the concern seems a bit silly since all sports have an inherent safety risk for the athlete. We might as well ban the entirety of gymnastics and pole vault since they're easily more dangerous than a simple cartwheel.

[@chrislewis7811]

​@@ianmccurdy1223 not to mention all of the winter Olympics (except maybe curling). The cartwheel seems way less dangerous to spectators/officials than the spinning technique.

[@codforlife]

I can't see anything wrong at all with the spinning javelin technique, looks like a real crowd pleaser. Bring it back ASAP.

[@holliswilliams8426]

won't be a crowd pleaser when someone in the crowd gets speared

[@codforlife]

@@holliswilliams8426 yeah that was my joke.

[@j_allmightee8934]

spinning javelin has to be the scariest event ever.

[@finkelmana]

As far as I am concerned, cartwheeling and spinning are the same. They banned it citing possible injury, but have there been any? One would think, as long as you stay inside the circle, you can do anything you want with your body.

[@missing_links]

One would expect that there'd be more overuse injuries. Arms are not as robust as legs and the bodily ask for the cartwheel is to place all of the weight on a single wrist in a deliberately explosive motion. But then... there's always risk of injury as an athlete, managing injuries through smart training is a part of the deal of an olympic or professional athlete, and high-level techniques in *every* sport place more burden on the body than lower-level techniques.

[@finkelmana]

@@missing_links That argument falls apart when you consider competitive gymnastics, where the most popular part of the sport is the floor program, where cartwheeling explosively is the point. I also doubt that shot putters are putting more stress on their body than baseball pitchers during the course of a throw. Stopping shot putters from cartwheeling for safety sounds responsible, except were there ever any injuries to the athlete or spectators?

[@missing_links]

@@finkelmana Cartwheeling in gymnastic floor routines virtually always use both hands and typically involve preserving momentum built up prior to the cartwheel more than they involve generating new momentum. Flips and cartwheels in floor routines almost always start from a short sprint - it's not the same as the mechanics present in the shotput technique. "....than baseball pitchers during the course of a throw." - you mean a group of people who have such famously high injury rates that the role of *relief* pitcher exists? What's your point here? "except were there ever any injuries to the athlete or spectators?" Probably. But again, I don't think it matters. It's OK if there are injuries to the athletes. Using a risky technique is their choice and I don't think that we should prevent athletes at the olympic level from taking whatever risks with their bodies they want to.

[@harryschaefer8563]

It shouldn't be banned! I think if the putter stays within the confines of the circle anything goes. Long jumpers cannot take of past the takeoff board. If they do the jump doesn't count. The Fosbury flop was weird at first. It was a very creative way to get over the bar, now it seems like the technique of choice. Fibreglass poles were weird at first too, now every jumper uses them.

[@j.samuelwaters81]

Lol, wtf is this comment? In your response to a video about the shotput you first mention the long jump event, then briefly shift to the high jump before pivoting into commentary on pole vault equipment. Even still, I understand the point you are getting at: "these things were once new and seemingly bizarre, but have since become accepted as valid (or even the new default) strategy, and so this new thing should be allowed to gain similar acceptance."