The Case for Splitting the Winds of Winter

[@AlexanderArts]

I've never wanted a man to break wind so badly.

[@EliaFlowers]

😭

[@4943melody]

LMAOO

[@NightDweller]

Time travelling fart moment

[@carastone3473]

😂😂 💨

[@SapphireSolstice67]

oberyn’s joke about Baelor Breakwind is actually a prophecy about breaking Winds

[@UncleRuckus2134]

If Stannis does not take Winterfell, we must call our banners and riot.

[@alfieingrouille1528]

I will just straight up drop the series 😤

[@nont18411]

Stannis will never take Winterfell because Gurm will never finish Winds and Dream😢

[@sunkist1309]

@@alfieingrouille1528guys stannis is going to die. Maybe at winterfell, against Ramsay elsewhere, or against the others. George will give the true king a great end.

[@JoshuaJohnson7334g]

isnt he already defeated like in the pink letter

[@UncleRuckus2134]

@@nont18411 Still means STANNIS NEVER DIES!!!

[@retroverdrive]

I'd accept an unfinished half of TWoW at this point.

[@HOTD108_]

You already got an unfinished TWoW. It was called "Game of Thrones seasons 5-8". Personally, I'd rather nothing if that's the alternative.

[@edwinbrown7179]

@@HOTD108_ Nah that's just high-budget fanfiction.

[@ChezzyKnytt]

​@@HOTD108_That was an underbaked entire cake. I'd be happy with a well baked slice.

[@jsky2695]

i’d take the unsorted rough drafts with scribbles and notes in the margins 😭😭

[@catpriest]

You're joking right? Everything went downhill since writers ran out of material ​@@HOTD108_

[@QTC1688]

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves, When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will release winds, and not before.

[@kalmes]

That seems a bit optimistic.

[@umanuu]

words are wind

[@Prawnsly]

Never, never, never, never, never...

[@cr1ms0n64]

So the next few hundred years? Come on, that prediction is way, way to soon.

[@TheCandyHole]

Still in the bargaining phase I see

[@j-rey-]

This made me laugh so hard. I think I am in mourning, on my way to acceptance 😢

[@geraltdirivia8278]

This comment deserves 1 million likes, at least.

[@Canario_27]

Ouch, dude that cuts deep xD

[@CaleebTalib]

Sadly I’ve made it to acceptance. It’s either now or never. He almost has to release it within a year or two or we are guaranteed to have the series finished by other writers.

[@poe-master-6913]

The copium is so big in this community. It's like an epidemic

[@Flor-um1zu]

The Last year I've too been thinking how 2 books is just too little space to write about everything that needs to happen in ASOIAF, Jon Ressurection, Young Griff attemtping to seize power, The Vale plot being resolved, Dorne, Dany going to Vaes Dothrak, Dany uniting the Khalasar behind her, Dany liberating Meereen in Fire & Blood, Dany fixing stuff in Meereen, Dany preparing to take off with Tyrion and the other cast to Westeros, Getting a Plan to conquer Westeros, The White Walkers at Hardhome, Stannis and the Battle of Ice, Stannis and the campaign for Winterfell, Jon Snow at the wall fixing everything there, Jon Snow killing Roose with one hand, while choking Ramsay with the other. Brienne and Jaime, Kingslanding plot blowing itself up, dozens of others, Jon Connington dying. Seems like too little space to do all of that in just 2 books , and then There's Euron Greyjoy!

[@stevenreyes4791]

Nah there's more than enough space if he goes aSoS mode. The way you put it is the same way D&D interprets events, Jon and Dany are the only important characters who do everything. Jon doesn't have to go to hardhome, or "fix" the wall (especially when it's symbolically meant to divide people), or even fight roose at all. Also certain plots could likely tie into one another, the vale plotpoints could be tied directly into the riverlands and frey civil war plotpoints if Sansa reveals herself or Robin declares war for Petyr. Hardhome could easily be a Davos chapter maybe right before or after a chapter in skagos, maybe he has to choose whether to save the wildlings or Rickon. Everything Dany does doesn't require a new chapter from her POV if other characters can witness it themselves.

[@jsky2695]

yes! agree! just add more books to the series already!

[@matiasrisatti670]

Didn' hardhome already happen "offsceeen"?

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@matiasrisatti670 Hardhome already happened in a very ominous letter from Eastwatch. There are "things" in the water and ships have been lost... We don't need an epic battle with Jon vs a fanfic character like in the show. The things that letter hinted at were far scarier, if you possess a functional imagination.

[@TheCreepyLantern]

i think ALL of his problems can be summed up as 'he let the story get more and more complicated, having genuinely BRILLIANT ideas and characters and stories to tell..... and now he's finally at a point where he has to start heading for the end and it's damn near impossible. if THREE different point of view characters were either killed off or had their story finished, they're just done and out the way and never needing to be touched again, it'd still be a mountain of work to do.

[@victorcarrillo7618]

I'm not sure it's impossible. It's near impossible to do with his method of writing coupled with his very irregular schedule. Not to mention he seems to want to wrap it up neatly in two books when he either should have let some stuff unresolved or had come to terms with the fact that he would have needed a few more books WITHOUT adding more and more threads and just get to it asap. But he wanted a goldilocks solution that wasn't there and now it looks like it's too late to do either.

[@TheCreepyLantern]

@@victorcarrillo7618 yeah no, you're totally right

[@saraa.4295]

You are very right...bringing it all together again is absolutely heavy..especially since he needs to write out each possibility before deciding..for all we know he might have written 10 wind of winter and disregarded all of them.. But this fact actually gives me hope for the series, because i think if, i mean when winds of winter is finished, i guess everyone will be heading for the home stretch. They will probably all be in westeros, or on the way. So the dream of spring might be quicker because it would be "easier"

[@markusbarten455]

Well the plot would become much more simple if either Danearys or The Others arrived in Westeros and swept all those little plans and schemes aside.

[@TheCreepyLantern]

@@markusbarten455 or both. Danny sweeping up plots in the south and the Others in the north to meet and fight in the middle

[@larryadams6202]

Even if it leaves arcs incomplete for part 2, I would gladly take WOW Part 1 while he finishes

[@cliffordrose4335]

As would we all. He spilt FEAST from DANCE because it was too big for a physical binder in 2004 and it published in 2005 after multiple edits and revisions. That was about 20 years ago by any and all estimates. DANCE was done and he just held it back until 2011 for fine-tuning and to see how the HBO adaptation of aSoI&F would be received.

[@AndrasteDoirend]

@@cliffordrose4335Dance was 100 percent not done in 2005, that would be stupid to sit on a book for 6 years, plus the HBO adaptation wasn’t in the works until 2009 at best

[@cliffordrose4335]

@@AndrasteDoirend That is incorrect. Dan and Dave were working with GRRM on the HBO adaptation of aSoI&F in 2007. It is known and they have publicly stated as much. DANCE was done by the time FEAST was published in 2005 as per the sample chapters that were already completed.

[@VinceLovesToast]

I see we've reached the Bargaining stage of Grief, after Winds coming soon has been deconfirmed. 😭

[@jocas94]

Man this community is so good at content creation. We’ve stretched asoiaf longer than most sitcom wished they could do. The better call saul episode was good too. Feel free to make another one of those!

[@SamuelSouza-di6nq]

Yes, but at least 1 third of these videos are about a book that maybe will never be released lol

[@cr1ms0n64]

@@SamuelSouza-di6nqI think it’ll be out by 2225, have faith.

[@status_quo_post]

Pro: we get new material to feast on. Contra: we don't get seven books for seven gods. Pro: Martin can lower the burden he bears. Contra: we only get half a story and will crave more.

[@d.samara9378]

Seeing as he keeps mentioning how large this book is going to be, why not push for as many manuscript pages as is necessary to tell the story? Why limit himself to 1500 pages like he's mentioned for the past decade? Have his publishers split the book and bundle it together.

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

Seems like a lot of epic fantasy authors, even since Tolkein, have wanted to keep their stories in a single volume while their publishers, for various reasons, have disagreed. One, that a lot of modern authors run into, is that the machines most major publishers use can only bind a book together if it is approximately 1500 or less. So, that's one reason why Winds might be forcibly split. But, that (and us getting it sooner) aside, Id much rather get the version of the story the author wants to tell, ya know? And if they want one giant, massive story, well, then, id much prefer the book end up that way too.

[@VinnieMF]

Yep. 1 book, 2 prints.

[@tomstein3165]

this is what itll be

[@GrrmPleaseWrite]

I don’t know of any books that have done this. I’m guessing because publishers see it as poison for sales. Most people don’t want to pay $60 for a single book, but I think asoiaf is the only exception, as fans would buy anything at this point

[@00dude3]

because he's lying i doubt he's even got 100 pages written

[@SeanORaigh]

I'm starting to suspect that adamantly refusing to ever plot a novel out ahead of time is detrimental to such a large and complex story as this.

[@Cuetlachtli-mg4jf]

I do love the title “a time for wolves”

[@matthewbird1067]

The pain of AFFC-ADWD is that it really doesn't feel like any arc completed, not in the way the first trilogy finished with (almost) everyone ready for a time break. With all of the established battles to come, the Stark children training arcs, it does feel like the first half of TWOW would be those, before digging into the "new" parts he wants as Winds anyway. Complete the middle trilogy, set everyone up for the Dance-Other invasions as a final series, and it just feels so much neater.

[@EvolutionSquare]

I'm not as well-versed as I probably should be to part-take in this discussion but I think the long wait stems from his fear of repeating a past mistake. He's said that one thing he regrets about the series is how he can't go back and make edits to the earlier entries, now that he's further along. There are things he wished he could change, but he can't; those books have released. My suspicion is that the reason it's taking so long is that he's not comfortable publishing Winds of Winter until he has *also* finetuned everything for A Dream Of Spring. He's struggling with perfecting the conclusion, which delays the penultimate book as well. This is also why I think he will staunchly refuse to split Winds of Winter but makes me delusional enough to believe that once he does get to publishing the next book, the final one won't take *as* long to get out.

[@nolanfischer4855]

Imagine we get Winds of Winter before GTA 6

[@FVD]

Probably still won't come after Final Fantasy VII Remake, Part 3 which is set for around 2027-28. GRRRRRRRRM may as well split Winds into a couple volumes.

[@nont18411]

The copium is strong in this one

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

let me fix that for you: Imagine we get Winds of Winter before GTA 7

[@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149]

Copium alert!

[@Derekivery]

you sweet summer child

[@theneelay]

A Time for Wolves is just too great a title not to use

[@DD-qo1tw]

I think a big problem with this is how much rewriting Martin does. He's struggling to bring a lot of threads together and probably wants to keep access to editing everything until he has a final solution to tie it all up. He says Tyrion's arc is "done" but I guarantee it will have some changes made yet based on what he does with other characters even if they are minor like adding some foreshadowing or metaphor or fixing some inconsistencies I'm betting he's left a lot if the more challenging logistical problems til last as well.

[@cliffordrose4335]

I think 🤔 GRRM said that Cersei chapters are completed too. He just needs to let the work speak for itself after all this delay and postponement. Send it in already as it is probably too big for a physical binder already. Let the publisher have at it with edits and revisions with the understanding that any outstanding issues can be reserved for resolution in the remainder Volume two of WINDS

[@raineydayscott]

Remember, the Wheel of Time was originally supposed to be a trilogy too 😂 fantasy authors are notorious for underestimating the amount of pages needed to tell a story

[@X525Crossfire]

"Undersell, overdeliver" is the key to being a successful author.

[@davidcook680]

Hell divers by Nicholas sansbury smith was suppose to be a trilogy. Ended up being 12 books. The last one just released this year. Great series. He did some side stories too. He is doing a prequel too. So the entire thing will eventually be dang near 20 books I think.

[@sentonbeeblo170]

I saw twow 2025 in my dragon dream last night it’s all good

[@pigpig252]

Missed opportunity for a Winds announcement during Daemon's dream in hotd

[@ChezzyKnytt]

I think someone's just using a glass candle to mess with you

[@SolarPlayer]

A split means the part you release becomes canon and can no longer be changed. That makes the remaining more difficult and less fun. I wouldn't be surprised if grrm dreams of doing the opposite - finish the entire series with complete freedom to go back and rewrite chapters from even multiple books ago

[@QuinnTheGM]

See I think the opposite - I believe part of the problem is this massive amount of material still being changeable. By locking it in, Martin would have less he’d feel like he has to continually revise and update, especially since a lot of these chapters were intended for Dance.

[@rudyviray8931]

​@@QuinnTheGM it probably comes from being a "gardener" writer. Rewriting is part of that process and since he only has two books left to finish his story, then he's having a hard time because he can't go back to foreshadow things that he want set up. It's better if he lets go of just doing two books and go for 8 or 9. But he might feel like he can't finish that.

[@luhguren]

@@rudyviray8931 But he doesn't really have only two books left. He can do as many books as he wants xD I mean, what will they do? Not publish a new Song of Ice and Fire book from George Martin? xD

[@Felzorful]

@@QuinnTheGM i saw a interview with him ones. where he said its a good thing these books come out ones in a while or i still be change things. So i agree that he just needs to start release winds part 1.

[@inigo137]

You are objectively correct. Martin even said in his blog that he envies an author that wrote his entire series with no editor or deadline.

[@BatFlash52]

The answer is yes, he should split Winds, the real question is, why hasn’t he? Yes, GRRM writes by character, but can’t he just do a Feast/Dance situation again? Surely he has enough material for a shorter book now.

[@QuinnTheGM]

I think he’s continually thought he could do it, but I think his recent pessimism combined with potential pressure from his publisher and HBO (after the butterfly incident) could push things in that direction.

[@KyloRenRadio]

@@QuinnTheGM It would be fascinating to see you analyze if and how the HotD team and GRRM can go forward after George so publicly burned them. In any line of work, going scorched earth on your creative partners is very toxic and destructive to any future working relationship.

[@victorcarrillo7618]

Because he's in the running for most stubborn guy on earth

[@saraa.4295]

Because he does not know if some of the stuff he has already written needs to be changed.. There are so many crossroads now ahead of our characters, each one affecting others.. So once he has written his last chapter he will need to make sure all of the others still fit!

[@victorcarrillo7618]

@@saraa.4295 because he stubbornly refuses to try out some outlines and tries to find it in the writing instead like he has time (or like he writes often enough) to make that a feasible strategy for a 1200 page book with hundreds of characters

[@Stay_Zerose]

A split that I thought of that could work really well would actually be a 3 book split. Do one set sort up north, one in the south and one in Essos. Each of these locations sort of have their own contained stories and they wouldn’t have the problem of overlapping and making other characters redundant. It would allow for a cohesive narrative while also giving George a little more room to explore, so he doesn’t have to cut a chapter he really likes purely due to time constraints. He likes to garden as he always says and I think a broad concept like locations would allow him to just sit and play around with the characters and the plot a bit more freely. The only downside to this would be that it may leave us in a situation where the characters drift further apart.

[@BTOlsen25]

I love this idea!

[@cr1ms0n64]

I can’t wait for Dany to go and get wyverns and “lizard lions” in Sothoryos cause one her dragons flew the wrong way.

[@mds2519]

Chronological split seems like the way to go. But one advantage with character split is Jon Snow, delaying the resurrection to the second book would be cooler and more impactful

[@raph3699]

Hearing about Jon without knowing it’s Jon from other character’s POV would be the coolest thing

[@raph3699]

Maybe not the coolest but still very cool

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

Or at the climax of the first.

[@SwordJames]

- "TWoW is coming any day now, if we assume George wrote the book, scrapped it, then re-wrote it it should be out sometime next year assuming his writing pace between Feast and Dance is the same" - "TWoW is being released imminently, he ordered a dragon cake and is hosting a party" - "Alright, here's how we can get TWoW, we split it and have another Feast/Dance situation"

[@daralenoach]

The stages of grief lmao

[@cr1ms0n64]

I.... I think that it’ll be released.... even if it’s in the year 2225... We just need to not die to read it.

[@VinceLovesToast]

Since George already cut a lot of content from the end of Feast/Dance, it seems very realistic to me that he could write a whole novel resolving those plotlines: - Battle of Ice - Battle of Fire - Euron in Oldtown - (f)Aegons Conquest - Davos on Skagos - Arya leaving Bravos - Jon's ressurection - Brienne/Jaime x Stoneheart - Sam Training in Oldtown - Hunting Down Darkstar - Cersei's Trial Maybe I'm crazy and these would all take a full book to tie up but to be honest you could write a book focused on only the Battle of Ice, the Battle of Fire, and Euron attacking Oldtown. Arya, Cersei, Brienne & Jaime could all have big developments to their stories in just a few chapters as well.

[@aabbccdd4710]

The case for splitting George from attending cons and HBO meetings

[@victorcarrillo7618]

But his legacy, how will he maintain his legacy if he's not out there answering the same question at 10 conventions?

[@sammyr401]

He says has 1000 pages written. Surely, he can publish a 400 or 500 page book resolving all the Essos plotlines and get everyone heading back to Westoros! Dany, Tyrion, Marwyn, Jorah, Victorian, Rickon, Baristan, and anyone else I forgot. Call it Dance of Dragons Part 2.

[@maxwell_j_R]

If he has finished these PoVs, then a short book of this would be good. The only major problem that I can think of: If it ends with Dany at Pentos/Dragonstone, hearing news from King's Landing and such, then that weakens the Jon Con/Arianne/Cersei story by likely revealing too much of what has happend / will happen in 'Winds'. And if you have the book end earlier than that, then is the book too short? (And then will he want to unnecessarily make it longer? Which just has him spend more time writing without advancing the story.) (Another problem is separating the Battle of Fire from the other battles, if there are similar themes/reveals that are supposed to be paralleled.)

[@mum-your]

he hasnt finished all the POVs yet. the way he writes is by writing multiple chapters of a single pov in a sitting and moving to next so no all povs are in the same timeframe

[@adampowers9081]

If he splits Winds, he should call the second half 'A Night of Terrors'

[@sassquatch212]

In the UK, both Storm and Dance are split into two volumes. It does worry me that George STILL hasn’t got into the second of the three part story. It was war of five kings, Danny’s invasion and the others’ invasion. Theres absolutely no shot that this story is wrapped up in two more books.

[@MykeTheCreator]

I agree that his publishers are going to pretty much demand he releases another volume very soon… it will probably be a AFFC style wrapping up of some plot lines (battles of ice and fire, fallout from kings landing) which gives him the space for the trickier ones (Bran, Brienne, Sam) and HOPEFULLY in with a fighting chance of actually finishing it lol

[@fullmetaltheorist]

If George does split the Winds of Winter he might end up wondering around with his pen and writing 5 more books. He is a gardener so this could derail his original vision for the story.

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

Do you honestly see Martin wrapping up GoT in just two books, regardless of their lengths? Personally and also, with everything left on the table, plus storylines that were never in the show, I don't see it working properly unless there's an 8th book. Look at what was left the show post season 5 ( which is where most of characters in the last published book where we left them ) and what is left to be told.

[@fullmetaltheorist]

@@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast His age will catch up to him. He should just let somebody else finish the book at this point. He is going on side quests.

[@fullmetaltheorist]

@@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring are projected to be massive books. Combined they're estimated to have a total length equal to 5 or 6 A Dance with Dragons books.

[@manuelabad8682]

George is not a gardener, he is a bad writer, he has never been able to control the story and its narrative. In the last book George should have started closing a bunch of plots and preparing everything for the final quarter of the story, however he dedicated himself to continuing expanding the story. George is not a gardener, because gardeners prune their plants, they do not let them grow without any type of control until either they all become tangled or they end up dying due to lack of care.

[@lsdeann_3293]

​@@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast I could honestly see GRRM wrapping the story in just two books - IF they are paced like A Storm of Swords. They probably won't be, they'll provably be big, sprawling things

[@Xenophon1]

I'm surprised the publisher hasn't insisted that this discovery writer, who obviously can't finish his series, get a skilled team to help with outlining and writing/editing.

[@PhosPhryne]

The strongest argument for splitting the book is if it's as big or bigger than Dance or Storm.. then it's going to be split anyways in most of the world.

[@ChildOfTheFlower]

No because he will use that an excuse to delay the second half by another decade.

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Without even watching the video yet this makes sense to me.

[@ingen_nate_kenny6588]

I think the two reasons why TWOW has not been already split is 1) do not want the contested feedback of AFFC/ADWD and 2) wants to avoid publishing until everything is done, so he is not locked into anything he is not happy. For the latter point, it may be wise from our perspective to have been decisive, but I don't think he wants to do that.

[@Sam-jx8tv]

I don't understand why he didn't split it years ago. Why is he so married to 7 books?

[@Obez45]

in the words of Voldemort: "thirteen years it's been... I confess myself disappointed"

[@diamondinmyeye6160]

I can see why he doesn't want to split it. Once he does, he's committed to the published order of events. The Meranese knot could happen again and with no method of repair.

[@astrolord_ad1245]

We really need to come to terms with the fact that GRRM isn’t going to finish the series. He’s too old, the story is too convoluted, and time is simply not on his side.

[@billthebard805]

When fans have been waiting for the next piece of a story as long as this, literally any snippet of material is devoured with nothing but joy. I say publish what you have as long as it can be all tied together neatly.

[@ART3MIS1324]

Soon, soon, soon. It shall be soon. I’ve seen it in my dreams, or maybe those are the times when Im awake. The dreams are when the people come, they come for me, because I have seen. It will be soon.

[@iangenuine]

It's insanely incredible how a storm of swords was only made within two years

[@Gustavo-tm9ct]

Haven't even watched the video but yes 1000% yes

[@ScadrianGhostblood]

What if George wrote short stories that would be set during the main story and could help him develop plot lines that he doesn't have space for in winds? They wouldn't be long and necessary to read, just filling gabs that can't be filled. For example a story about a night's watchman after Jon was killed that shows the aftereffects and maybe even makes the night's watchman find out more about the others.

[@ChaseHendersonWV]

His current methodology hasn’t produced results in 14 years. He needs to change and try something, anything.

[@ccorvid]

Quinn, thank you for your resilient optimism in these dark times. You feeding me this milk of the copey is keeping me alive (& delirious), & i just so appreciate our shared Care for George and his well being & his great works. i low key get why he might be so stubborn about specifically wanting 7 books in the series, soo i kinda just want his publishers to break physics for him and give us the Long Knight book all in one go, (especially since it means a bigger Meal for glimbus later!), but at the same time, i do think the chronological split would be best, possibly just because i want those beginning battles so bad!!! also, i didnt know about GoT/CoK originally being one book, so that kinda just makes me think that its Fate, for only Storm, & Dream to be the ones he writes quickly, and never has to split. lol. great vid. i never know how to end these comments, so I'll just say some typical youtube stuff about liking my comment (cause it makes me feel good), and wishing you a great week! thanks! bye! 👋

[@caleblangfird212]

Hell yeah! He should make the first half of winds called a deluge of blood or something edgy like that if we're getting Euron being a freak

[@rio425ee]

Idk it's hard to split a single chapter into 2 books but I'm sure the bean counters will appreciate doing it if each one costs full price.

[@SoCalSon395]

I'm very iffy on splitting chronologically, but as long as George has a serviceable mid-book climax he can repurpose as a sort of end of part 1, I can get behind it. I definitely have mixed feelings about splitting by character, as that heavily depends on how streamlined the two halves would be. If he can do it Return of the King style where everyone is split off into cleanly definable halves, and then ends up in the same place for the last chunk of the story, that's great, but that would probably require the story to be closer to its desired finale than it currently is at the end of ADWD. Ultimately, if it means we get more book sooner and George gets to rest a little easier, I'm in support of a split.

[@danielleeskelton]

I think he surely has enough at the moment to split it. I'd take a split book happily rather than wait for how many more years for him to complete it.

[@YoutubeStandardLicense]

It's pretty simple for him: he needs to concentrate on the following core tenets to get this over the line. 1) Focus on Core Characters and themes by prioritizing central characters (Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, etc.) and resolve the key power struggles without adding new storylines. Stick to the core themes of power, betrayal, and family. 2) He needs to accelerate the 4 key battles. Ice, Blood, Fire and Steel pretty quickly to shore up threads. At least 3 out of the 4 have to be resolved (Ice, Blood and Fire) because many of our POV and side-characters are tied to them. 3) Cut unnecessary side stories and focus on key regions and factions. Small time jumps could help skip over less crucial developments. 4) Resolve some plotlines through non-POV characters and maintain mystery by using unreliable narrators to keep certain events open-ended. He did this well with the fate of Loras Tyrell. We need more of this. It doesn't matter if side characters who have little agency on the plot's direction are alive or dead, and will keep people guessing. 5) Accelerate Dorne. The Ariane, Quentin, and Darkstar shite needs to be accelerated either through direct action with other threads (Jon-Con etc) or through death. 6) Get the others south of the wall - use the northern plot to accelerate this. Think of a chernobyl like event where the northerners inadvertently cause the others to get through the wall because of the widlings and the distraction of the battle of Winterfell. Doesnt matter how whether its through the Horn of Joramund (magic) or stupidity (realism) 7) Get the storyline stragglers to start adding to it in direct ways (Danerys, Bran etc). They cannot be hanging around any longer And if he cannot do this, he could consult trusted collaborators to help tighten the story while maintaining his creative control.

[@infinitesquarez]

You forgot step 8 - draw the rest of the owl. So glad GRRM has brainboxes like you to figure everything out.

[@jaymenjanssens720]

8 Book series! Small final book. Publisher wins, fewer cuts, and the last two can be worked on (edited) should GRRMartin's health fail him. Dont want him wasting time formatting for a TWOW page count.

[@beauloppens4100]

I'm afraid not bc I have a feeling although he reached oprox 77% now, it's very complex getting all the storylines into place... even more so with him writing different versions of how the story could go, so that means he probably has to make some adaptions in the earlier chapters, which won't be possible when they're already released...

[@maylabrown4584]

It’s funny to me for Stannis to take Winterfell and then just be like “Okay, that was rough, eff this you take it now Jon”

[@kingofnamek]

I have it on good authority (I just made it up) that it's taking so long because he's actually trying to fit in Dream into Winds, so we get the full ending

[@Juhan04]

Holy cope

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

If only :(

[@kekero540]

I think if George was allowed to have more chapters it might actually help a lot.

[@mr_yoru5834]

He's had to split every single book of his "trilogy" already. I kind of understand if he doesn't want to split TWoW further, but it probably would have been for the best if he had.

[@deezxc]

Never left a comment but an avid fan of the channel. Thanks for the continued great work, Quinn. Your content keeps the ASOIAF world lived in.

[@someguyoutthere110]

If he splits Winds, I think there's essentially 0 chance of ever getting a part 2. George already has a big problem with self-imposed deadlines and I think giving up his stated intent of keeping Winds to one book, not as a creative decision but just because he's taken so long, would be a citical hit to his confidence.

[@cjp8853]

I wouldn't even mind a Green Angel Tower situation where, instead of making it a whole different book, he cleans up the first half of Winds (which is apparently completed) and releases it as The Winds of Winter Part One

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

To make a big point about the unfinished books in ASOIAF, I think the final season as a whole is the prime example of something (outside of problematic writing, etc) falling under the weight of it's own complexities and ideas. Also probably why Martin is having issues with the final two books, because he's going to have squeeze everything left into those, but also make it clear what the story is truly about and saying

[@captainhanpritcher]

One point in favor: George will never finish Dream anyway, so if Winds is split into two installments, the series will still be seven books long.

[@ПетрБонюк]

A little off topic, but I have a theory. This concerns love lines in a song of ice and fire. In general, this story has one infallible rule: At the end of any love line, one of the two characters dies. And for greater drama, this second one is directly or indirectly guilty of his death. And now look: If Daenerys had not started to protest, Khal Drogo would not have been wounded. It was Catelyn who persuaded Ned to go south, which subsequently led to his death. At first glance, Loras and Renly fall outside this rule, but let's remember their original plan to make Margaery queen. Of course, Renly gets nothing, while the Tyrrells get a royal marriage. So it is highly likely that it was Loras who convinced Renly of the need for this plan, and the ensuing coronation of Renly after Robert's death, because of which he came into conflict with Stannis, and was killed. It was because of Theon's actions that Winterfell was taken, Kira was captured and apparently brutally killed. The marriage of Robb and Jeyne Westerling served as the motive for the red wedding. Perhaps you could forget, but in the first book there was some kind of love story between Sansa and Joffrey. And in A Storm of Swords, it was Sansa who served as the motive for the purple wedding. If Jon had not gone to Castle Black and reported the impending attack of the wildlings, Ygritte could have survived. Petyr Baelish kills Lysa. Tyrion kills Shae. Dalla and Mance. Jarl and Val. As part of Arianna Martell's conspiracy, Arys Oakheart was killed. Arya and Raff Sweet hahahahahahaha And you may notice, what about Tywin and Shae? They died almost at the same time, somehow this is out of the rule. To which I will answer you - Tywin never had sex with Shae. How is that possible? Let's start with the trial. Shae lies in court, and we think that she is having an affair with Tywin. But if you read her speech carefully, it becomes clear that Tywin has nothing to do with it. This speech was aimed not so much at accusing Tyrion of murder, but at humiliating Tyrion. Why would Tywin do this, who clearly cares about the reputation of the Lannisters, he does not want anyone to laugh at his family. If he wanted Tyrion dead, he would want him to die with dignity. Perhaps Carsei insisted that Shae humiliate Tyrion as a form of revenge. But in that case, Shae herself should have told Carsei all these details. But if she is an agent of Varys ... Varys wanted Tyrion to hate the whole damn red keep and want revenge, and join Aegon. Varys was the one who engineered Tyrion's murder of Tywin. So he could have engineered Shae's presence there. Tywin was probably poisoned, so it's not a good time to have sex. Plus he has a secret passage. And he wouldn't sleep with Shae if he knew he had guards on his back who might spill the beans. Plus Shae was wearing the Hand's chain, and Kevan made it clear Tywin didn't approve. So we're kind of supposed to think he's a hypocrite, but maybe he's not. And Shae isn't mentioned in Tywin and Tyrion's last conversation. So there's no evidence he even knows Shae is in his bed. So in the winds of winter, Daario and many others will die.

[@alantyndall85]

The series is so interesting because we don't know how the many threads get pulled together into a coherent story. Unfortunately, neither does GRRM despite trying for well over a decade.

[@nathanielrobertson2968]

Option 4: Chronologically AND by Character TWOW depicts Dorne, the Stormlands, King’s Landing, Essos, and Half of the North. ATFW depicts everywhere else a year later with no explanation or context

[@benkellman4577]

It’s a good point about it being too long just in pages. I can’t wait for it to come out, but i’d much rather drop everything and be super excited to read 600 pages three times than have to get through 1700 pages before going on the internet for fear of spoilers once

[@benkellman4577]

He wouldn’t even need to make separate complete story arcs within each volume. He could just title them WoW V1,V2,V3, and treat them narratively like one book

[@mosh57]

Splitting winds would be like splitting liver and onions, it can't be done

[@tikarimiekka8048]

At this point... I don't even care anymore

[@jj947]

At this point I’d take him publishing one chapter a week like a manga artist.

[@pieterhofkens7259]

​@@jj947 this would be hilarious

[@VinnieMF]

Why are you here?

[@filipferencak2717]

You wouldn't be here if that was true

[@ChezzyKnytt]

You get here via autoplay?

[@JetConvoy]

100% the books should be split and I have no idea why Martin has not done it’s after 13 years. He should solidify the first half and just stick with and release it.

[@JahanMisra]

i think the main drawback of splitting by pov would be that we’d get to see some characters POVs but would have to wait who knows how long for the other half. or we even might never see that other half ever again if he never finishes the second part. some people might get lucky and have the first part of Winds contain most of their favorite characters but other fans might end up not having any of their favorites present in the first part. splitting chronologically would mean everyone gets to see at least a little of each pov

[@nont18411]

There is King of the Andals, Rhoynar and the First Men. There is also King of the Iron Islands. There is also King in the North. And there is also the Night’s King. But none come close to the King of Excuses and Procrastination, Gurm himself.

[@egmorox13]

The Green Mile by Stephen King was released in multiple smaller volumes across a set schedule. He said he was inspired by Charles dickens to try that style. It makes for an interesting read, structurally. The chapters have those exposition reminder sentences near the start of each edition

[@alexcoleman2735]

I found Feast dragged at times because of certain POVs missing so I’d definitely prefer crono

[@Novgord98]

2:18 I thought it was a purposefully troll ending. I am so used to hear these things at the end of a video, like pavlov's dogs 😂. On a serious note, I think the publishers must already have made a similiar request.

[@three-eyedmonkey7344]

Hey Quinn. You make some good points in favour of splitting, but personally I’m happy to wait for the full book. It might be possible to split chronologically but George is not the type to just cleave a book in two like Joffrey. I remember in an old interview he mentioned that at a conference one time another writer advised him to just type “to be continued “ whenever he hits the manuscript limit and George said he wanted to scream. The way he sees it, each book has it’s own theme, mood, etc., so it’s not as simple as just splitting it by volume. This is why he split Feast and Dance the way he did, but that’s not really an option anymore due to converging plot-lines. Plus I really think he’d like to win a Hugo and a whole book would give him a serious chance, whereas two halves will not.

[@carter9449]

Would it not qualify for a Hugo if he released part 2 as a single volume containing part 1 again?

[@three-eyedmonkey7344]

@@carter9449 probably, but if can fit it all in one volume I think he’ll wait. Unfortunately for us, he’s thinking beyond current readers and considering future generations of readers, who won’t know anything about the long wait between books. He wants to get it done right, not just done.

[@carter9449]

@@three-eyedmonkey7344 How would that affect future readers? They'd know to do the full version in the same way no one reads Blood of the Dragon or Arms of the Kraken anymore

[@three-eyedmonkey7344]

@@carter9449 I mean I don’t think he’s going to split the book just to satisfy impatient readers. Unfortunately we’ll just have to wait until the whole thing is done.

[@darthJ9]

He'll work on the shows for as long as he's alive and Winds will release as a complete book posthumously, proceeds will go to his estate. ADoS is indeed just a dream. I also feel most of the plot and mystery will resolve itself in Winds with Dream being more of a thematic conclusion. Once Winds is out we won't really need Dream since we'll be able to theorise the endgame pretty accurately with the cat out of the bag, so to speak.

[@alexfdezpal]

Splitting (chronologically being the only real way) is such a double edge sword. It can lead him to be encougared to finish writing the whole thing seeing that the 1st half is finally out but it also can lead him to forever rethink and rewrite it.

[@outinspace8760]

Uh yeah, the more he releases at this point the better. the dude is 75 years old. Id be fine if he released it in 1/10 chunks if it meant we actually got something new with asoiaf sooner.

[@alexvandyke1236]

I think it should have been three trilogies. 1.) A Game of Thrones 2.) A Clash of Kings 3.) A Storm of Swords 4.) A Feast for Crows. First ~50 chapters of a combined reading order, ending with fAegon deciding to sail west. 5.) A Dance with Dragons. Next ~50 chapters, ending with Daznak’s pit. 6.) Drawing a blank at what to title this one, but it would cover the rest of published Dance and resolve its dangling threads. Would likely end with Jon Snow’s resurrection. 7.) The Winds Of Winter. Rest of what George has planned for Winds. Likely ends with the Wall being breached. 8.) A Time for Wolves. Covers the Long Night. 9.) A Dream of Spring. Covers the “scouring of the shire.”

[@bakedpotato7858]

I'd be super happy with another sample chapter at this point

[@thelateescapist8266]

I agree with the premise of this video 100%, and I've been thinking for some time that if GRRM could just bite the bullet and admit that he needs more than two books to finish his story he'd probably start making more progress and end up releasing the remaining books sooner. He's said that he's already 75% done with TWOW, so if he could just find the right place to lop off that first 50% he'd probably have a publishable book by the end of the year. Then with some of the pressure off he'd probably have a much easier time coming up with that last 25%.

[@negan8703]

It must be said that it would be a good thing, the problem is that we do not know that Martin does not write in chronological order, he often leaves behind something that he will write later, for example the last chapter written in the third book is the chapter of the red wedding, which is not at the end of the book but about halfway. Knowing this, when he says he has written 1200 pages out of 1500, we cannot say that the last 300 are missing, but it could be the first ones, or a chapter here and one there.

[@lucreziatrevellyan5499]

Taking what George had to leave out of dance is almost half of book already. Then choose a handful of characters that require less chapters and less time on the timeline to complete their planned arcs for winds and include that to give it a feeling of satisfying conclusion. Include some chapters from everyone else and have those leave off on exciting notes/cliffhangers. Making that work on same timeline wouldn’t be easy but might be possible.

[@amitklain4199]

Time to admit that even if he gets to spring he might not have time to wrap it all up

[@MatiasNG97]

At this point, he should get someone to co-write with him now that he can still control it because let's be honest, once he is gone, someone with the right amount of money is going to talk to the rigth people to allow the series to be finished without him

[@carlrood4457]

HBO doesn't want him working on ASOIAF. If anything, they want Fire & Blood 2 and more Dunk & Egg. HBO gains nothing from ASOIAF. They've already adapted that.

[@KyloRenRadio]

The result of the collision of GRRM's "gardener" writing style and the proliferation of Game of Thrones content on HBO is WoW's publication receding into the distant future. For a seasoned pro like GRRM to so publicly burn bridges with the HotD showrunners, he is not in a good creative space, IMO.

[@teenprez]

I agree that a win would really do George some good! Overall I think splitting Winds would be for the best, as much as I want the complete book.

[@asteroidmonger]

I wish he would narrow the scope to 4-5 POVs that carry the narrative. He can then sprinkle resolution chapters for the remaining characters and we all call it a day. It's wild. The current trend is no ending to the song of ice and fire.

[@markhenzel4637]

At this point, I already canonized every theory out there. Victarion Greyjoy is Azor Ahai, Daenarys will never go to Westeros, Jon is Ned and Ashara son, Rhaegar actually kidnapped Lyanna and r- for ritual, Ned Dayne is Rhaegar and Lyanna son, Varys and Faegon are Blackfyre, Stannis WILL NOT burns his daughter but Melisandre and Selyse gonna do it without his knowledge etc. Joke aside, if GRRM releases the book, I wish everyone accept whatever he wrote tho with open mind.

[@Fallocaust]

I'm an author (high fantasy and science fiction) and like GRRM I'm the 'gardener' type of author. I also write really huge freakin' books that are a part of a huge freakin' series. Now that I have that out of the way, I think one of the problems with splitting up Winds is due to GRRM's gardener writing style. If you split the book up into volumes before the book in its entirety is finished, you're essentially locking yourself in to certain events and character developments taking place. It can work if the characters are off in a far away land with absolutely no way for them to converse or get information on any current events that may mention other characters, but you're really locking yourself down. This might work with authors who structure everything and have every chapter planned out but GRRM isn't like that. When you're writing, you're writing a book, you're not writing chapter to chapter and you have to have that access to everything as you write. I once had a beta reader of mine suggest I send her the chapters as I write them and I looked at her like she was crazy. I know it's difficult for readers who've never written these huge tomes to get at first, but we don't just write a chapter and dust our hands off all 'job well done!' there's a lot of editing and tweaking and reworking once the book itself is done. And when you're a gardener type of writer, that's on steroids. It's not until that first draft is finished that you can really start smoothing over sections because you now know what ideas you went with, what never went anywhere and need to be weeded out, and where you can plant some foreshadowing and maybe a few easter eggs here or there for the ones who were paying attention. If you split an unfinished book into volumes and release them before the book is finished, you're going to run into problems, So, even though I think it's a solid idea, it's just too restricting when it comes to the type of writer GRRM is. Especially when you're dealing with the later books in a series. It's already challenging enough to write these complicated books but having things set in stone within a book you've not yet finished but decided to release the first part of it anyway, would make that even worse.

[@KyloRenRadio]

Do you think GRRM's aSoIaF "garden" has just grown beyond his ability to prune it into a coherent story?

[@Fallocaust]

​@@KyloRenRadio I think that is entirely possible and I also think him taking so long writing the books is what's causing it. When you first start writing these books and exploring the characters, it's new and exciting and you have all these ideas. It feels like lightning in a bottle and you end up growing so attached to these characters. But as the years go on, like it or not, that excitement, that drive, it fades. Add in looking online and seeing countless people hate on a character or point out flaws you didn't initially see, that luster just fades. (One of the reasons why I never look at my book reviews. Remember authors, reviews are for readers not for you!),. But! You're still a writer and you still love the world you created, its still a constant on your mind, so you end up coming up with new characters to be excited about, new adventures, new history, new plot twists, but this is all focused on these new characters that maybe you're fascinated with, but your reader base is a bit hot and cold about a couple of them. I think, and this is just my theory since I have given it a lot of thought, GRRM is a bit bored of the main group of characters and tried to spice things up for himself by adding new ones and trying to weave them into the series. But in doing so, like you said, it has just grown that garden way past what he's able to cultivate and grow and has added too many different branches stretching off into too many different directions. And although this doesn't seem like a big deal when you're in the middle of the series, now you're supposed to be preparing for the end and you're supposed to start harvesting... but this garden is not only overgrown, but the weeds you planted that have weaved their way into the structural supports and the vines of the initial garden, need to be somehow harvested too. In the end, I think GRRM taking so long with this series is the root of almost every problem he has. What was once an exciting obsession has become a chore he has to get through, and characters and plots that were once so fresh in his mind have become hazy, clouded, distant, hard to recall. It's not fun anymore and I am sure that must absolutely gut him. But, unlike a lot of us, GRRM can get help with this and he has people who help him with the lore. If I were him, I'd just write, even if he gets lore wrong, even if he writes something meh, just get it out, get that first draft out and take it from there. I know with my big books, that also have alternating POVs and concurrent storylines that need to match up and end in some satisfying manner, the most valuable thing I've learned is to trust yourself and trust your abilities. I used to stress TF out when writing the end of my books because I was so sure I'd made it too complicated to end things on a satisfying note, but somehow, I always ended up doing it. GRRM just needs to trust himself and write. And that goes for any other author or wannabe author. Something else I've observed over the years (published my first book in 2014) is the more someone talks about the book they're writing, the less of a chance they're actually writing it. Stop talking about it and write! (I know with GRRM he's talking about it because people keep asking but you know what I mean lol). Ahh another long comment but I hope that answers your question!

[@muir9257]

Splitting chronologically does seem like the best option right now tbh. I do think that GRRM is insisting with the one book because he has a pretty good (if albeit a bit cope-y) reason for it. In Winds some of the POV characters are going to meet and very possibly *stay together* for a long while. That way he can reduce multiple POVs to the one where both (or maybe even more) characters appear in it. That makes it so that instead of having 5 Tyrion chapters and 5 Daenerys chapters and another 3 from Barristan maybe there's 3 Tyrion, 2 Daenerys, 1 Barristan... Or something like that. There are a lot of characters that are "alone" though, like Sansa, Arya, Bran and Cersei that will have to keep their chapters for their stories. But if this is his plan of action then he's got Jaime and Brienne covered (and maybe even Sansa if he wants to give them that oathkeeping W), also Arianne and JonCon, Theon and Asha (they're already together and about to turn to one), Melissandre and Jon (also together but about to go from 1 to 2 interchangeable POVs), aaaaand I can't think of any more. But that's plenty of chapter numbers reduced imo. The cope-y part is wether that will be enough to "trim the fat off" and have all of it fit in the *measly* 1500 pages he has available lmao.

[@facundomedina9762]

I also think it would benefit him personally. Although my thought was of him being reminded that the books are not the show, and that we still have confidence in HIS story

[@grizzlyadams8277]

Don’t split the book into two separate novels. Finish the whole thing in as many pages as necessary then release it as Winds of Winter Volume 1 and Volume 2. Release them the same day, a week apart, a month apart, whatever.

[@Samuel99939]

Nooo, Winds is going to come out tomorrow, chill, hold on to your horses, it's coming, any day now, probably tomorrow, no need to split, Winds is coming, it's coming.

[@arturocaissut1071]

The issue with the chronological splitting of the book is that Martin himself doesn't seem to progress chronologically, meaning that it's not necessarily true that the first (say) 50 chapters can be released without writing the latter (say) 50 first: he seems to be going back and forth to rewrites chapters all the time, which is understandable, considering the huge story he wrote so far, with hundreds of characters, locations, events. He could do it, if he surrendered to the good old "Better done than perfect" principle: releasing the first half may prevent him from achieving certain things in the second (for instance: he may end up killing someone whose death paints Martin in a corner, so to speak), but assuming there is no way he can nail a perfect ending he could probably take the risk. It could even be "refreshing" for him, but I guess we'll never know: he's gone too far to release a mediocre book, the expectations are huge.

[@jamesmswenko8292]

Imagine waiting over 12 years for just... half a book; it would be outrageous!

[@secondeye1574]

If it didn't fuck up the naming scheme and wasn't awkward due to Dance being the most recent book for the longest time, I would almost say the best idea is to do a Dance with Dragons Part 2, so he can actually put the stuff that was supposed to be in that book in its own, and have the Dany/Faegon storyline get more prominence in a book with an appropriate title. Then the Winds of Winter is purely the Others storyline. A bonus is that we get to still say that Winds of Winter is never coming out after he releases a book