The Confusion of Transmedia Storytelling

This is more of a discussion orientated video exploring some of the strengths and weaknesses of big franchises and their universes expanding their content across multiple means like books, games, comics and tv.
I'll be looking in particular at Doctor Who, Star Trek, Mass Effect and Star Wars and how they approach this.
Music from bensound.com, purple-planet.com and freesfx.co.uk
Star Trek Online developed by Cryptic Studios and Perfect World.
Star Trek, Star Trek Enterprise/Voyager/Deep Space Nine/Discovery/Picard and The Next Generation are all owned and distributed by CBS.
Mass Effect is produced by BioWare and published by EA, Microsoft Game Studios.
Doctor Who, BBC logo, and all assets are property of the British Broadcasting Corporation.
Star Wars Rebels/Clone Wars produced by Lucasfilm and Lucasfilm Animation, distributed by Disney and ABC Domestic.
Star Wars, Rebels, Clone Wars and other affiliated works including soundtrack and logos are created and owned by Lucasfilm and Distributed by Disney.
This Video is for critical purposes with commentary.

[@riakm921]

I personally believe the holy grail of a transmedia story, is one that manages to entirely maintain consistency. While unfortunately this usually proves to be to lofty a goal, it should nonetheless be striven for. For any fictional endeavor, internal consistency is the greatest single pillar supporting the vault that is verisimilitude!

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

So like Halo?

[@hughmilner7013]

It's definitely a holy grail - an excellent objective, but one not achievable by most mere mortals. It's often hard to tell when a massive canon will emerge from a starting work. Looking back on it, Star Wars could have really used a "canon director" from the get-go to make Legends less chaotic from the start, which would have made it a better-structured narrative and possibly built in spaces to slot in later films, which could have avoided the necessity of killing the canon to find breathing room. Of course, if you had told someone then that Star Wars would be one of the few consistent cultural phenomena for over a generation and this would be necessary, they probably wouldn't believe you. On a similar note, convincing the corporations that control smash-hit IPs to be responsible with creating spin-off content, teasing it out carefully and consistently over years and decades rather than a massive cash grab is a hard sell.

[@NeilBlumengarten]

It also has to produce "self-contained" stories that add to each other, without leaving you feel left out if you didn't read/watch a particular piece.

[@barrybend7189]

Gundam has a whole web of canon for its UC series. It also has a seperate category for Alternate UC stories like the CCA Novel timeline and Gundam Thunderbolt.

[@elmajore4818]

Mass Effect does it pretty good, cause Books/Comics are mostly from the Game Authors (Drew Karpyshyn and Mac Walters) or they are Co-Authors etc. otherwise there are major inconsistencies (like gillian graysons age)

[@SnazBrigade]

the most egregious example to me personally was actually in Halo 5. It was small, but it felt much worse. Master Chief, the main character, who we have followed basically on his own for 4 games, is given a team, on that team, are 3 people from the books. Outside of the books, we are given no explanation of who they are and where their previous relationship to the Chief is, but we are somehow supposed to understand that they are old friends and, to an extant, equals. This is especially jarring due to the fact that, up until Halo 5, the general consensus of the games seemed to be that MC was the LAST Spartan 2, to the point that Halo 2's soundtrack had a song called 'The Last Spartan'. If you read the books, however, this would've been a lot easier to swallow, as the characters are ALL featured prominently, and you get a more in depth look at their relationships. I have no problem with Transmedia works, in fact, I endorse them greatly. I think expanding the works of a universe through means beyond one medium is generally a good thing, but I feel like there's a difference between expanding a series like that, and requiring all of the viewers to also intake every part of it.

[@d.b.4671]

Fans, 1990: Wait, that doesn't fit with the existing canon. Studio, 1990: Canon is a fan construct, we don't care. Studio, 2020: We own the IP, so this is canon now. Fans, 2020: Canon is a fan construct, we can choose not to care.

[@richmcgee434]

Accurate.

[@deusexaethera]

I agree with Fans ca. 1990 and Studios ca. 2020.

[@patrikhjorth3291]

Happy First Contact Day!

[@scottmantooth8785]

*just a few more decades and we can celebrate it properly*

[@Robin_Glader]

I think the Star Wars approach is a good idea. There are times it has worked out great like with Saw Gerrerra apparing is pretty much every medium. Mauls apparence in Solo is a bit iffy, I defenetly see the citicims but for me who's in the know I loved that. There are times they've broken their own rules though. They said everything released after 2014 would be canon but Rey and Poe meet for the first time in the TFA novelization and then again in TLJ.

[@yuzzem64]

I find it pretty crazy the new canon already has so many errors on it's own and yet people still act like legends was a mess at least in legends they worked out and explained any Inconsistency that popped up within stories that came out after much like marvel or DC such as Boba deliberately creating false identities and stories around himself to keep his true past hidden

[@yuzzem64]

As for maul I'm sure if solo 2 had been made it would have explained how he survived in the clone wars the whole point of his appearance was as a teaser for a sequel

[@andrewgilbertson5672]

@@yuzzem64 The Clone Wars series and Rebels series already explained his survival; much like certain plot elements appearing at the end of the Mandlaorian's first season, Solo was an example of Star Wars actually building off of its transmedia sources, bringing plot points from their previous series into a new movie or series.

[@yuzzem64]

@@andrewgilbertson5672 I know I just mean I imagine the next season of mandalorian will explain what the dark saber is for people who haven't seen clone wars or rebels and I imagine solo 2 would have done the same for maul

[@blackphoenix77]

I don't like how Doctor Who's expanded media rarely impacts the television series, and I REALLY hate when the TV series contradicts something really good in the comics/books.

[@KarSevak1992]

Misspelled “Transmedia” missing the r.

[@shingshongshamalama]

I wonder if that's to avoid getting flagged by youtube's stupid algorithms.

[@Secondary_Identifier]

To clarify, in the title of the video. My only thought was that maybe he needed to avoid spelling out 'trans-' to be advertiser friendly.

[@sugarfrosted2005]

He fixed it.

[@csehszlovakze]

And then there's The Expanse, where the book series and the TV series are both canon, *but not the same canon.* One of the writers said that both forms are different tellings of the same base story. I personally prefer Trek's approach, though, especially considering all the stupid Borg origin stories that popped up over the decades, while Alpha Canon still won't define it cause it's best left a mystery.

[@KingOfMadCows]

Just do what comics do, establish an "Elseworld" or "What If" line. It's super easy for Star Trek, which has already established infinite parallel universes and timelines. Heck, the Abrams movies already take place in an alternate timeline.

[@MrDepechefan1]

The Rick and Morty comics actually do just that

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

Depending on what you read in Trek, they do take places in alternate universes. The novel-verse, in general and unless specifically called out, was assumed to take place in the Prime timeline, contradictions and all. Corps gotta make their scrip, after all.

[@JeghedderThomas]

I just love a good romp - especially the lose approach of Doctor Who - love it.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

Sometimes, there’s value in stories that don’t exist anymore, and from different context. For example: The old Thrawn books show him doing amazing things, actually commanding fleets and controlling a whole war from the background. However, we’re mostly left in the dark as to how he does these things, what and who he truly is, and spend the majority of our time with the OT heroes and have Thrawn built into this legendary figure he can’t possibly live up to, and yet sometimes still does anyways. Meanwhile, the canon books show his philosophy, long-term planning, and the how of his work. However, they don’t show him doing things as awesome as he should. Being bound by the Rebels show, we have his long-awaited rise through the empire in Thrawn (excellent), followed by two books of “what Thrawn did that one time he was gone for the weekend and wasn’t in Rebels” (less excellent).

[@ArchOfWinter]

Halo (after 343 took over) is an example of how NOT to do a transmedia initiative. My stance is any individual story line and elements in them should stand on its own and must be contained in the same medium. If I have to read a book to understand what happens in a game, then it failed. If I watch a movie and certain element was explained without intrusion, but it peaked my interest in a different story in a comic book, then it succeeded.

[@DaMasta981]

Well what about Halo: The Fall of Reach to Halo Combat Evolved? Most of the story is in the book but what was acted as a prequel/supplementary material to the original videogame itself. Just like movies compared to their book counterparts and so on, you can’t fit everything within one story medium, and if you wanted to expand the franchise, multiple works to establish and flesh out more world building is necessary and required.

[@froklsnt]

Gonna be a Thrawn stand here. Read the old books, they are AMAZING.

[@vladimirtepis]

Its is the biggest problem of the Storytelling of the World of Warcraft, not only because our nameless hero on the canon don't even exist, but with the fact that good chunk of important narrative is on the comic or the books. So like every expansion or even patch we are like: WTF?

[@avalentova]

IMO Star Trek Online story line is far far better then what we've got in Picard, but then again I have been playing the game for 7 years and have been part of it's developing story as player, which gave me much more than just staring at the TV.

[@callukcraft]

yea that's how i feel about STO , its a better sequel than most of the newer stuff they have been done , STD got better later like most trek ,and though i enjoyed Picard , STO has pushed forwarded and focused on stuff i wish the show did like the iconian war and 8472 stuff. but also i have have been playing for same time so yea a bit biased. but yea i agree with you.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@callukcraft there’s aspects of STO I prefer, but there’s plenty I don’t. The Klingons becoming antagonistic again, the dualistic two large factions of an MMO, and the ways later seasons (by which I mean basically everything after the Dyson sphere arc) started tying everything together with everything else leading to small universe syndrome. In an MMO context I accepted the dualistic factions but it never quite sat right with me - Trek has always been very pluralistic after all. But aside from that, I do still regard a lot of it as headcanon - eg the events when the wormhole-disappeared Dominion fleet show-up again, or the Odyssey class, or the ways one of the Romulan factions developed, or a number of characters’ “where are they now?” appearances. But there’s a lot I don’t accept as headcanon. Eg the planet killer’s cousins, or the repeated crystalline entity and Borg incursion PvE events, or any of the stuff involving the Mirror Universe incursions (at least when I was playing - the recent video about pirate Janeway made it look like they’d made it more awesome more recently), and stuff like that.

[@redshirt0479]

Personally I prefer the Trek approach overall. Easy to understand continuity, clear critical path to keep new viewers from being overwhelmed, and truly important elements are very unlikely to be left out. Plus, there's nothing wrong with dipping into your own EU for elements/inspiration, it's no different than being inspired by another work and wanting to integrate elements of it into your own work and see if you can improve upon them. Expanded Universes as testing grounds just make sense to me, figure out what works somewhere that can't do a lot of damage and just ignore what failed epically. And it's not like them not being canon diminishes my enjoyment of them, a well written story is a well written story no matter it's canonicity. It's like reading licensed fan-fiction but with generally better storytelling and writing technique.

[@barrybend7189]

Look into how Gundam handles it. It looks like a mess at first( due to the other timelines) but is really well organized and categorized.

[@Joesolo13]

Exactly. EUs are great when they're basically bonus content and testing out where the 'real' part should go I shouldn't need to go to a random video game tie in to see a major inspiration for the current plot

[@Anarchrist2k12]

I look to the Dragonball franchise. In particular, the movies predating Battle of the Gods. All of these films gave us fun romps which explored the characters, but included deliberate continuity problems to let us know they were just fun romps. This particular franchise has always been peculiar in that the manga and the anime each have their own unique stories, and it is left to the reader/viewer to determine their own personal canon.

[@barrybend7189]

Really Dragonball and not the posterchild of the complex timeline Gundam in which your profile picture is from?

[@TheInternetHelpdeskPlays]

Let's not forget one major plot point for Rise of Skywalker was only accessible in Fortnite. I have many years of star wars knowledge but never played fortnite.

[@CaptainKeen]

Wait, what? Is this a joke?

[@TheInternetHelpdeskPlays]

@@CaptainKeen definately not. On the crawl at the start of episode 9 it mentions "the dead speak" and a broadcast about Palpatine. If you had Fortnite and played at certain times, that was the only place you'd actually hear the broadcast.

[@SamaritanPrime]

I think that DC Comics managed to get around this issue of primary mediums and continuity and precedence by just spamming the alternate universe button. Yes, it's main series of comics takes place on one Earth, and all that is canon, but there's also an Earth next door where things are slightly different. The Elseworlds stories are part of this idea, and something like it can be applied to other mediums. Star Wars may have already done this with the Legends content. It's not in strict continuity with the films, but they're still there, and there's still some good stuff to pull from them, like Thrawn and the capital world of the Republic and the Empire being called Coruscant, apparently. Were Lucasfilm to start putting Star Wars: Legends content onscreen, then things might be smoothed over among diehard pre-Disney fans. (FYI: I'm reading the Heir to the Empire right now. Good stuff.) Star Trek could do the same with its many, many books. Just add a "Memory Alpha" or "Memory Beta" label to each book, and voila! You have cleaned up your continuity.

[@DStrormer]

Personally, I feel like Trek has 4 cannons. Alpha: offical cannon Beta: soft cannon (not directly contradicted by alpha) Beta 2: expansion material contradicted at this point by alpha Fannon: the fans opinions, wildly diverse and often pointing their cannon at our own ship!

[@NineWorldsFromDrew]

Interestingly, the example you give with “Night of the Doctor” shows how the franchise’s stewards (of which there have been a multitude) made a sincere effort to close one hole in the Doctor Who continuity. But equally, they were just as careless when it came to omitting another hole, which had showed up literally a single week before “Day of the Doctor”. It’s difficult to explain in a comment like this, but if you watch the ending scene of the episode “Name of the Doctor”, you’re basically presented with some very trippy exposition to explain why Clara is apparently this relatively ordinary human who the Doctor encounters in numerous incarnations - both for him, and somehow for her - then you get a little hint of fan-service to show those other previous Doctors showing up in the same place as Clara, then the current Doctor appears to her, before his incarnation that is previously-unknown to the audience appears, purely as a dramatic stinger to set us up for the next episode; the all-important anniversary. But how do the Doctor and Clara emerge from this scene? What transpires from it, by any sort of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey means, to take us from this monumental moment of epic drama, into the very casual-looking introduction of the next episode? No-one has ever found out. Or ever spoken of it. Or ever even hinted of it, in the show. And once Clara was entirely out of the series, whatever happened back then no longer mattered. It didn’t need to be remembered. Now, I’m not the absolutely most dedicated fan of the show. But I did rather like what was going on with Doctor Who, at the time. We were even getting to a point where “the question” that had been hinted at in previous episodes of the Eleventh Doctor, would finally be understood, even if “the question” itself couldn’t be answered, in the end. And many years later, I decided in my own headcanon, that the events specifically around this defeat of The Great Intelligence in “Name of the Doctor” were blinked out of existence. After all, the Doctor’s grave on Trenzalore cannot exist in his timeline, if he never meets his final death there. So what becomes a very particularly rooted point in the Doctor’s entire timeline - such that it becomes possible for two other characters to in fact enter the entirety of his timeline - is then very suddenly *up*-rooted, only moments after Clara, and then the Doctor, enter his timeline by this means. It’s a rather loveably bonkers theory, of course. It leads one to question whether Clara really existed in all those disparate periods of time, in the same way that one would question whether or not Schrodinger’s Cat is alive or dead in the closed box. But it also means that technically, a whole part of that episode *never* happened. And that technically, it only remains part of the canon continuity, because the audience have observed it. As all intents and purposes are concerned, in my headcanon, *even* Clara and the Doctor don’t remember that scene occurring! What impact does this have, on any of the continuity for Eleven, War Doctor, and Clara going forward? Doesn’t matter! The three all end up in one place, within the first twenty minutes of the next episode, and whether they remember bumping into each other in that trippy scene is no longer deemed relevant - *THAT* I particularly find bothersome. Because it is a loose thread that even *MY OWN THEORY* cannot cut off! Doctor Who - the Swiss cheese of franchises!

[@JosephDillman]

One of the first instances I can think of offhand was the .hack series. It was primarily a PS2 game that dealt with players of an MMO getting trapped in the gameworld. There was a limited anime series that takes place in the "real world", concurrent to the PS2 game and another anime detailing the "in game" events before you as a player become involved. Plus a few sequel anime and manga leading to another round of PS2 games. Then there was the show HEROES, which had a webcomic that added lots of backstory or filler that I felt was super enriching, but not mandatory to the series. Also an SMS club that sent you texts from the characters adding a LARPish quality...

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Great video! And to add another point... RWBY and Halo are going the extra story route that is canon as long as it does not conflict with the primary medium. So they can tell more stories in the universe as both RWBY and Halo have vast settings that can't be told in a 7-hour long game or a 20-minute long web series.

[@DedricSilva]

I loved this idea with Star Wars, Doctor Who, and Even Marvel with the MCU movies and shows even though the shows is divided on if it's canon to the movies or not.

[@legostarwarsfan159]

I honestly prefer the star wars and mass effect approach for the most part, it gives the bigger fans a way to learn more and explore the franchise more and get extra context that the main media doesn't need to explore to tell it's narrative. Mass effect gets away with that pretty easily since they can easily give all the exposition dump that is needed via optional dialogue, exposition that people that watch a mainstream movie might at times feel bothersome. Star wars for the most part has done a really great job so far in coordinating this transmedia storytelling, like the amount of contradictions have been pretty minimal so far, which when thinking of the scale of the franchise and the amount of media in it, is worth praise indeed. Just also to clarify all books, comics, series etc that came out after disney bought the franchise + some select works of the old legends are all considered canon. Though yeah this method is honestly the best when each media can stand on it's own and the interconnected elements are kept to a minimal to reward the people who have read and heard everything. With star trek my main gripe is kind of the inconsistency between it's media, there are numerous smaller events mentioned in the show that I would love to see or read about and that would most likely never be a show or a movie over that you just can't get a trustworthy answer about. As for borrowing elements, I'm mostly fine with it as long as the source of the idea is in this 'non canon' state, I'm pretty sure the bigger newer fans might even be inclined to read this source material too then out of curiousity.

[@yuzzem64]

It's actually every story published since Disney bought starwars that is canon with very few exceptions namely anything "Lego" as someone who feels the expanded whole of these franchises is the best part of them I prefer continuity to be as inclusive as possible just remember to explain anything someone needs to know beforehand within the story you are telling (for example you didn't need to see the prequels before the original trilogy but both are still canon and it isn't confusing because everything you need to know in explained within the story) and that anything contradictory is an alternate universe (as trek has referenced a few times such as with the online version of agent Dulmer experiencing memories from both the "destiny" and "Kelvin" timelines) and how Marvel DC and Rick and Morty have it so literally every story told is canon "from a certain point of view" just in another universe

[@DoctorX17]

I like the fact that there's a bunch of expanded stuff for so many franchises, but it is painful when you hit a "you *need* to [consume content X] to know this story" moment. Like in Star Trek Discovery, S2E13 they do a "previously on Discovery" and start talking about a character that wasn't in either season of the show. I thought I had missed something, but apparently it was in "Short Treks", which I had no idea had any Discovery-related content, and hadn't watched at all yet. It's irksome when there's a somewhat important link that you just have no idea about, and have the feeling you need to go down a rabbit hole to learn and catch up.

[@giladpellaeon1691]

When it is done well I love it. I became a huge fan of Star Wars through reading the original Thrawn trilogy as a kid in the early '90's (my KZbin handle helps give that away). The brief, but clear, reference to Captain Pellaeon in the last episode of "Rebels" was the most thrilling moment of the series for me, "YES, he's canon!" I think why "Rebels" managed to pull off Grand Admiral Thrawn well is because they brought in the author who originally created the character, Timothy Zahn. He is probably the most influential creator from the old Expanded Universe. I don't think Disney consulted with the writers of Dark Empire when they were making "Rise of Skywalker". P.S.- Rick, do you think you would ever do a bio episode on Captain Pellaeon, he's probably the most underappreciated and influential characters from the old Star Wars EU. Keep up the great work!

[@MrChupacabra555]

8:40 : First: Like you, I feel that "Rise of Skywalker" was not great (actually, it was garbage, but that's personal tastes ^_^), I would have t argue that knowledge of "Dark Empire" was not really necessary. Although I have heard of the comic before, and know the general story behind it, I never read the comic myself. However, many sci-fi fans out there know of the concept of cloning in general (and with Star Wars, there is an entire movie based on the concept). So its not hard to accept that Palpatine cloned a body for himself (although there should have been a flashback showing how he was making preparations for his downfall, however unlikely it might be). Its also not hard to assume, even without being told, that his Dark Side power was melting his new body, either. That being said, there isn't much in the Star Wars Expanded Universe I would want brought back into canon (Darth Revan and others from the "Old Republic" game, Thrawn is already back, but not as Bad Ass as I would have wanted, and maybe later the Yuzzahn Vong). There are many Star Trek novels I wish were made canon, or at least an episode (or series of episodes) made anew based on them (pretty much anything written by Peter David or Diane Duane ^_^). Some of the 'adventures' from Star Trek online were really good as well (I personally like the messed up nature of the galaxy that the game is set in, gives many opportunities for good story telling).

[@ryansargent661]

Despite some people’s opinions on it I really enjoyed what LucasFilm/Arts did with the Shadows of The Empire. Using the Novel, Comic and Video game to all tell the same story just from different points of view. There was even a soundtrack released.

[@deusexaethera]

I prefer the Star Trek approach. The canon all exists within a single media format, though they may appropriate particularly good story elements from other media to reward the authors of those particularly good story elements by canonizing their work.

[@williamburnett3660]

I'm curious of what do you think about the Five Nights at Freddy's Cannon and the SCP Wiki Cannon? Especially matpat's ( Game Theory) opinion on what is the difference between a cannon and a timeline.

[@tiagolascasas]

I feel like your explanation of Star Wars canon wasn't the most correct. It isn't just "selected works" that are canon, but **every** work from 25th April 2014 onwards, with small exceptions for some LEGO stuff. As for the pre-reset elements, the only salvaged things are the 6 movies, Clone Wars and the Son of Dathomir comic, which was made from an unfinished arc of the Clone Wars. And I don't think that comparing the Legends continuity to Trek Beta canon is the most correct either, as at least Legends formed a continuity in itself, with the occasional (minor) contradition and retcon, while you can't say the same about Trek Beta. But good video, nonetheless.

[@tobetobe2062]

Neeeeeerd!

[@CertifiablyIngame]

When I was writing this, I had in mind things like "The Old Republic" MMO, and I'm (pretty) sure there are ongoing comics that aren't canon. I didn't want to make a blanket statement just in case. As for the beta-Legends comparison, that's to give people who may be unfamiliar with one or the other as a reference point but I agree that on the whole, Expanded Universe materials told a rather consistent tale. Trek Tried this with its Destiny series which sort of tied in several others, but Beta is indeed a lot messier. Just look at the amount of ships a young James Kirk was supposed to have served on.

[@andrewgilbertson5672]

@@CertifiablyIngame Star Trek seems as if its Beta content up through the 90s was mostly one-offs, self-contained (just look at the numerous fates of Commander Sela), with a slight but very hazy continuity within some series (the Horta ensign, Rihansu, and the like; or the New Frontier series), but none really playing with each-other... and then, since the late 2000s and the 'relaunch' era, have been trying to create a much more consistent, connected universe, like Star Wars Legends'. Whereas Legends was also a non-continuous set of one-offs for its early decade or two, but chose to amalgamate into a continuous universe early enough in its lifespan (the 90s), and with so few entries, that the interconnected universe is primarily the one that people think of when they think of Legends. (Though even then, it actually had multiple hierarchy levels of continuity, with things in a higher tier overriding anything in a lower tier, so it's final pre-Disney years mostly consisted of George Lucas coming in and playing absolute havoc with the continuity via the Clone Wars series, which 'overrode' (and frequently contradicted) the last several decades of established canon... much like Picard is now doing to STO and the novels. All of which to say, Star Trek and Star Wars' beta contents ARE actually very similar, but the *iconic* era of each that most people think of lies in different phases of its lifespan- making the comparison seem less apt at first glance (it did for me, too, which is why I came down here into the comments) before you really think about it and see the similarities.

[@BNuts]

The new _Thrawn_ novels don't replace the old ones, fortunately. They cover more of his origin and early years, fleshing out details from some of Zahn's other novels, such as _Outbound Flight_ . Interestingly, until the very end, the first of these novels could be folded equally well into both the old EU and the new. Frankly, when it comes to transmedia storytelling in a franchise, I do enjoy a good story with appreciable characters, and that's all that matters to me. If a story is bad, or full of characters who are idiots or jerks, then chances are I won't appreciate it, regardless of the media used. Here I'm speaking equally about _STD_ and Chuck Wendig's _Aftermath_ trilogy, which was intended to explain the rise of the First Order. I was so bored of the first novel I never felt compelled to read the other two. Similarly, the Contest of Jerks and Jerky Camera Work in _STD_ helped me to decide not to watch season 2. I did not enjoy consuming this media, therefore I had simply decided to stop. On the other hand, I have read many of the old EU novels, including all of Timothy Zahn's instalments. _New Jedi Order_ and onward have been something of a challenge for me to find, and while not every novel is a winner, many of them are at least readable, whereas Disney's sequel trilogy could not seem to decide where it wanted to go, or what it wanted to be. A true shame they didn't just take what they had available to them and work with that. But novels aren't the end of my experience with transmedia _Star Wars_ . Kyle Katarn finds his origin in the DOOM clone _Dark Forces_ , and I also played both _X-wing_ and _TIE Fighter_ , which take place around the times of Episode IV and Episode V respectively. I also recall having watched the cartoons _Ewoks_ and _Droids_ , but these were way, way back. And I genuinely enjoyed the _Samurai Jack_ - style _Clone Wars_ miniseries. With _Star Trek_ , my journey is far more restricted, as I have only watched some of some series, as well as some of some movies. I have not read any of the books, and the only game I have played, among the numerous ones available, is _Star Trek Online_ , which I do enjoy playing, both for its story and characters, and for its versatile gameplay. And let's not forget that _Star Wars_ and _Star Trek_ both have toys among their media. Slight correction, as I recall I have read some _Doctor Who_ graphic novels, and one crossover with _Trek_ . But the biggest sci-fi franchise I have been following is _Mobile Suit Gundam_ . This is a franchise that has had a new anime series added to it almost every year since it first debuted in 1979, so as you can imagine, it is quite large. Not everything takes place in its main UC timeline, so it does have 'alternate canon.' On top of that it also has 'manga only' storylines like _Crossbone_ and _Astray_ . There are also many gundam models and toys, including gundam plastic models (gunpla), which you can build and customize yourself, constructing your own stories. And yes, _Gundam_ also has games. Honestly, I much prefer a _good story_ , simple as that. The method I like best out of the examples given is that of _Mass Effect_ , where everything is effectively canon because every piece of media has value to the overall whole. If you have to be able to pick and choose canon and non-canon, or more or less canon, or even discarding entire pieces, well, then you're doing something wrong, both by your franchise, and by its fans. As a result of such trends, we have two _Trek_ series that are obsessively picked apart by fans of 'old Trek_ , and _Star Wars_ movies that seem very uninteresting to me. I did not want to see _TLJ_ , but did because it was my birthday and my family was treating me. I have not seen _ROTS_ because I have no desire ever to do so. But I have enjoyed what I have seen of _The Mandalorian_ , and _Rogue One_ was OK. _Solo_ just kind of meandered. It could have told its story with more precision, and I didn't like how incompetent it made Han Solo.

[@barrybend7189]

Yeah and with Gundam they acknowledge fan feedback for cataloging these stories as they mentioned the Wiki( in their own way) in Gundam Build Divers Re Rise even with a Patrick Colesar page in the "recommended pages" tab.

[@BNuts]

@Matthew Chenault I don't care what Disney says, I know where the superior storytelling is. All I was saying is that Timothy Zahn wrote the new Thrawn novels the best he could to try to make them so they'd still work with his old ones. The contradictions only start to crop up later, but they do turn out in force. For example, in the old EU, Thrawn was exiled for interfering with _Outbound Flight_ (The Chiss Ascendancy is generally very defensive, but in their own space only. The Jedi project was not going o go through Chiss space). In the new version, he was not really exiled at all. Also, the much younger Eli Vanto replaces Gilad Pellaeon as Thrawn's closest confidante.

[@TymersRealm]

What makes ST: Picard interesting of note is their writers actually consulted with the STO devs while Picard was in development (I'd say it was more a mandate from CBS than anything else...). So working in some STO elements into Picard's backstory (and STO getting to use Picard stuff (i.e. Seven's new look)) was a good nod...

[@curtislangford3181]

DEFINITELY agree on everything!!!

[@Kitsula]

I have very mixed feeling about Transmedia Storytelling mostly because of how Star Wars has handled the New Canon with fairly important bits of lore (E.g. what the heck is going on with the New Republic?, Who is the random ex-Stormtrooper that Lando has a weird interest in helping and why is he so vested in helping her? The Palpatine stuff (although like you I instantly guessed it was pretty much Dark Empire's explanation because it seemed they were mining it for ideas.) buried and spread across a lot of different mediums requiring a constant keep up and lore dive to understand what is happening in the story half the time. And there is really a simple solution which you also recommended a few lines of dialog to give the gist of what's need for understanding within the story. Another reviewer Linkara of Atop the Fourth wall mentioned an adage to keep in mind some comic writers followed 'any comic can be someone's first': Even if there is a lot of continuity what's needed should at least understandable by someone whose first exposure to a franchise is that particular story. They may not get the full richness of the narrative by not seeing previous content but they should at least be able to understand things enough to enjoy it. As for Trek itself canon doesn't really bother me for two reasons: 1. Like Doctor Who there has been a lot of messing around with timelines. This even forms a major bit of Enterprise with the Temporal Cold War which later turns into a hot time war. Daniels on occasion even says certain things shouldn't have happened like the Xindi attack on Earth. Even outside of that the rest of the shows constantly mess around with time. To me this basically allows me to excuse the existence of different conflicting stories or details without tossing it all out. 2. In the 2009 Star Trek movie Prime Spock looks at the insanely improbable occurrence primary members of the TOS crew somehow ending up on an Enterprise by weird means and theorized that the Timeline was trying to repair itself. This kind of implies that in Star Trek there is a certain shape to history that is kind of in line with the idea of Wyrd (e.g. there is a general destiny/fate but the exact details are not fixed and can be shaped by actions). A number of changes of detail can happen but overtime things will more or less take on a familiar shape. Which to me means even elements of a soft canon thing are contradicted that doesn't mean all of it is generally contradicted it just may have happened in a slightly different manner with some details changed.

[@DanielRichards644]

I think the books and other media should be a way to add to the story for those that want more (ie, the Riker Titan books) so it could exist in the timeline, give you more stories with characters you like but not be required reading for the Picard series.

[@AJZulu]

Very good.

[@edawgrules]

And then there’s the Expanded Universe before Disney acquired Star Wars. There was a rich and copious amount of work that formed a greater narrative around the films.

[@Dale_The_Space_Wizard]

I regard everything produced in all media as canon up until the point when Phantom Menace was released in 1998. Every story told from that point onwards is set in a sort of "What if..." Star Wars universe.

[@JenABlue-ed1bw]

Great video! How'd I miss this last month? On the mainline* borrowing ideas from the transmedia content: I was literally just observing earlier today that the Kelpiens and Deferi are *very* similar, especially with the very similar names of Saru and Surah. *I don't like the term "canon" because that's not what a canon is. Also I don't like the concept as applied in fandom, I definitely prefer the freewheeling Doctor Who approach. Lore is fun but there's no reason to be beholden to it--especially since every time someone ignores/changes it, you get MORE lore to play with!

[@comentnine1574]

What’s you take on Japanese sci-fi franchises because from what I heard western sci-fi fans don’t believe those to be “True sci-fi” and express this rather zealously in my opinion. So I want to hear your view on Japanese sci-fi media.

[@barrybend7189]

He did cover Macross so he does count it.

[@comentnine1574]

@@barrybend7189 yeah but I wanna hear his thoughts on the matter.

[@CertifiablyIngame]

Depends on the show and media. For example, I think "Stiens Gate" is my favorite anime and I'd classify that as Sci fi and I'm a big JRPG fan but these often blend fantasy with their sci-fi, something I'd love to cover more of, but this channel might no the the place.

[@comentnine1574]

@@CertifiablyIngame why not?

[@dmkatelyn]

Another consideration is volume of extra media. Compare Mass Effect and the others. ME has every extra source as canon and some, like Nexus Uprising, give a lot of depth to characters without being required reading while others like Annihilation are independent narratives but every bit as strong as an actual game. But there are a lot less of them. Because they exist in canon the franchise has to exert more control over what to publish and constrain future storytelling around the extra sources. ME: Annihilation and the Star Trek: Double Helix series. Both focus on epidemiology in space opera which is absolutely a cool place to explore. Annihilation is one book with a very strong narrative that can be referenced in future media, where Double Helix is six books that are hit-and-miss that are almost certainly lost to history. In essence this is a "quality versus quantity" argument, but not quite as I'd argue that Double Helix, at its best, is at least in the same league as Annihilation, while ME's stricter curated universe still has misfires, even on-screen (looking at you, Catalyst). So it isn't even cleanly a quality-quantity dynamic, but maybe a continuum of how curated the franchise is of which canonicity is one factor.

[@superthorc6894]

To be fair to Star Wars They want to backtrack to the backtrack in order to give what they think the audience want

[@andrewriker2192]

So are novelization of movies how studios can "patch" issues in the movie without reediting and shooting pickups the movies?

[@BigRedDiscGolf]

Yup

[@tobetobe2062]

Good one

[@Beacuzz]

I'm a trek fan. Their are now 7 series for me to watch to know all the lore. And sense it is over 80 years they don't always follow their own lore (anything Spock says about Vulcan can be hit or miss). I take almost everything with a grain of salt and a knowledge that I'm just not gonna know it all! That said I just don't have the time to read beta. I want to but I still haven't finished the shows! If it is important I want them to explain it to me and maybe tell me (or other fans can tell me) where I can go find more info. I wanted to get into star wars legends but I looked up the books and found over 400. With little to no organization. I just gave up as soon i saw that. A case of too much extra. I know if I go into star trek books I can at least search by show, and pick the ones I think will enhance my knowledge. Sum up I treat the extras like major fan fics. You know the ones that most of the fandom knows and loves! The ones we treat like canon but know they aren't.

[@yuzzem64]

The basic organization of legends is chronological so you could start at the very beginning of the jedi order or jump ahead to the prequels original trilogy or after I'd reccomend the "essential reader's companion" by pablo hidalgo as an amazing reference book to all the legends novels but you can easily find the chronological reading order on wookiepedia and use the placement of the films for reference to find the era most interesting to you

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

For the Trek novels, I'd pick a particular show that you like, and go with that novel series. TOS, for example, has a ton of good, meh, and awful novels in the Pocket Books line, starting with ST:TMP and going from there. There's an entry on Wikipedia for Trek that has all the novels listed, and you'd spend at least as much time reading everyone one (if you could track them down, since a lot are e-Books or out of print) as you will watching all the series' and movies.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I know this came out are you wrote your comment, but I was very glad to see Spock drinking wine with T’Pring in SNW since DS9 mentioned Vulcan Port as a thing. Spock’s one-off comment about alcohol to Bones be damned (especially since that scene already had a dubious AF line about being conquered)! Plus Spock also declined brandy with Pike, indicating he doesn’t drink with colleagues, so we can if we choose surmise that Spock made-up an excuse with Bones pressing him (while Pike didn’t push after his declination).

[@TheGhostOfSabotage]

I think if a franchises having other material being branching into their own universe, sure they may not be canon in what we see in the main 'meal' but are canon to their own 'meal' if that makes any sense and that's where I like them in the most part. :)

[@barrybend7189]

Gundam kinda does this but in 2 categories. You have canonical side stories: stories that elaborate on certain things that appear later on like the events of 0080 war in the pocket with the RX-78 NT1 Alex and 0083 Stardust Memory which involves the events which led to the Titans of Zeta Gundam. Then there's whats considered Alternate UC: stories that take place in a variation of the UC timeline but are not the main canon, Gundam Thunderbolt and the Hathaway's Flash novel follow this canonical path.

[@alexanderbraun7887]

I can really agree with the pointt that handwaving away stories makes you less interested in the franchise. I spend a lot of time, effort and oney on the old SW EU and when Disney decided that this was no longer Canon, something that was claimed to be at the time, soured SW for me to the point that I am no longer willing to spent approx. 80€ each month for SW material

[@nellwyn655]

I had almost every book from what is now Legends, but had not yet read the last couple. I still havent and dont really feel inclined to read any of the new canon ones either unfortunately. The only one I have is Ahsoka and it is the only one I have seen that I probably would as well. It's a huge shame, but I guess it means that other franchises get my book reading money now.

[@VideoSage]

I do wish you had mentioned, that when Disney cannonised a number of games & shows, it decannonised ALL of the previously cannon content.

[@BigRedDiscGolf]

He did. Its called legends now.

[@admiralsquatbar127]

For me, if it's on screen, it's canon. If it isn't, then it is just some fun on the side.

[@tba113]

Personally, I prefer Games Workshop's approach to Warhammer 40,000. It goes something like this: "Everything is canon, but not everything is _true."_ In my view, this allows them endless freedom to tell whatever story they like, without detracting from existing stories that people enjoy, even if GW wants to retell the story another way. The only thing that has to be taken explicitly as handed down are the current rule sets. There's even an in-universe explanation for this, as the various stories that explain the universe span millions of years and get changed with each retelling, and come in every conceivable format. Oral traditions of myths and legends handed down from father to son, personal memoirs and autobiographies, academic lab reports, bureaucratic municipal filings, and brisk, dry, military after-action reports all contribute to the broader 40K lore, and that's just the human-like stuff: the Eldar, Tau, Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Ruinous Powers all have their own ways of remembering stuff that may or may not have happened that wouldn't necessarily have a parallel to human recordkeeping - or even make sense to a human perspective. It's crazy, self-contradictory, and balls-to-the-wall ridiculous. I love it.

[@barrybend7189]

Dude Gundam's canon categories are better. As there are side stories which are canon( like Gundam Sentinel and F91 Silhouette) and those that are considered UC AU ( like The Char's Counter Attack novel Timeline and Gundam Tyrant Sword of Neofalia).

[@Fff99901]

How dare you forget to mention that some of the exclusive missions in LEGO Star Wars The Force Awakens are official canon? One of my favourite facts about Star Wars that is.

[@TG-yt1cv]

I haven't heard about this what are these missions about?

[@admiralsquatbar127]

Wat?

[@yuzzem64]

The continuity with the lego stuff is kind of iffy basically they say "some version of these events are canon but not as shown" right? That's basically how legends handled the old Droids or Ewoks shows

[@Fff99901]

@@TG-yt1cv I can't remember them all but there's a mission detailing how C-3P0 got his red arm and one about how Poe knew Lore Senteka (the old guy at the start of TFA). Obviously it being LEGO isn't canon but the general story being told is considered to be.

[@Fff99901]

@@yuzzem64 The LEGO TFA stuff is new canon so is officially what happened. Obviously not the bit where everyone's made of plastic but the stories told are just as canon as any novel or comic which I find rather amusing!

[@comentnine1574]

14:40 I think having a muti-Media franchise makes much more of a challenge for the guys behind them to find new ideas and ways of making them relevant.

[@diosnelfrica7589]

I’m experimenting a Mandela Effect because I read the title of the video as “....Transmedia” but I see it actually said “...Tansmedia”.

[@jaspr1999]

I do wish you'd included either Stargate and/or Babylon 5 in storytelling options as, while there are definitive plotholes, the plotholes that exist are easier to overlook.

[@vengeance1701]

Oooooooh, I have that Star Trek comic. DC's second run, #1.

[@kylesodyssey8591]

One attempt at trans/cross media storytelling I felt was *particularly horrible* was that of Final Fantasy XV. The game itself was originally supposed to be a part of a loose link in a three part series, "Fabula Nova Crystallis" but that broke down quickly. For XV itself, they had the game, a movie, an anime, even a japanese only audio book, not to mention of insulting amount of DLC episodes. However, these things were all that should have been in one product as the anime & movie are essential parts of the story, should have been playable, yet were not. This was a result of poor planning, laziness, & down right incompetence by Square itself.

[@CertifiablyIngame]

Don't forget the prequel minigame.

[@NotMyRealName6]

A fifth example of transmedia storytelling would be the Transformers Aligned continuity, an attempt by Hasbro to take elements form all previous Transformers continuity and put them together into a single, unified canon, retelling the major elements of each separate continuity in various media and creating a _mostly_ solid canon. A couple hiccups here and there, but otherwise a good way to streamline the narrative. ...Until Takara mucked it up by tossing out the final season of Prime in favor of their own idea.

[@NineWorldsFromDrew]

Curiously, the Star Trek model has even worked in stories which *didn’t* (AFAIK) make it to any form of print media first, but were in fact proposed episodes, then becoming fan episodes, sometimes even in a different continuity. The best example of this was when the proposed TNG episode “Blood and Fire”, with heavy themes of a gay relationship between two side characters and a pandemic that’s very clearly standing in for the AIDS virus, was shelved despite strong support from many cast and crew members for the show, due to fears that such an episode would never be aired for syndication; mostly voiced in some realistic or more likely exaggerated capacity, by Rick Berman (a.k.a. “Fuck you, Rick Berman!”) When a series that continued the voyages of the original Enterprise, literally titled “Star Trek Continues”, saw support from so many actors and crew who had previously worked on the official Trek franchise, it was eventually decided to produce an episode in *this* continuity, but still using the story and title from “Blood and Fire” - as I recall, one of the gay characters in fact was written into the story as Kirk’s nephew. I like how this worked out. Though it’s just a shame that the official franchise was somewhat slower in making this progressive step.

[@ashraytv2490]

Personally I love transmedia story telling especially in Star Trek. I believe that the best way to tell a story through different mediums is to have the backstory told through online gaming e.g. Star Trek Online but not cover the current events that would be told in series. The series would be used to show the set up and progression of the conflict which then culminates in a climactic ending as a film. As much as I enjoy novelisation I would hesitant to make them canon as I feel that the audience would either be interested in either novel or televised and not really both. Same with comics. I would have comics be soft canon with events that happen during the film or series but not have an impact on those events.

[@HouseholdWheel]

In all honesty, I most like the transformers approach to canon. The multiverse is infinite, therefore everything is canon, literally everything. The closest analogue I can think of in Star Trek would be the episode 'Parallels' where Worf transitions into several parallel universes, each one is subtly different but the further he goes the more different the universe is from his native reality. That concept spread out into infinity would result in infinite variation in the form of several noticeably different "clusters" of universes with minor variations within them. The transformers wiki has a few universes listed and some of them are so irrelevant to any substantial story it's almost hilarious, and the numbering system allows for literally any piece of media to be classified as a different universe. This somewhat blasé attitude towards canon means everything is equally valid somewhere in the multiverse. There are no strict borders between different forms of media

[@Dracounguis]

The last expansion of World of Warcraft screwed up and put major things and motivations of characters in a book and didn't explain it in the game. This made the main protagonist seem to just be a generic evil bad guy doing bad things just to do bad things. And while its transmedia, its done by the same company on purpose (for $ I assume). And they'll do it again for the next expansion, even though it confused people who just played the game. And the game SHOULD be the primary storytelling device. Not a peripheral media source like a novel

[@LordB-dg8ks]

The only real problem when it comes to Transmedia is when you can’t tell a story that makes sense without the extra book/comics/product people need to buy for it to make sense. The Star Wars book versions of the movies always added in a little bit of background like the light it shined on Dooku and his reasons for joining the Sith as well as his plans for everything that was in the episode three book but nowhere to be seen in the movie. But you didn’t need to know those details for the movie to make sense However, You did need to know things in the episode nine book for things to make sense in the movie.

[@barrybend7189]

In Clone Wars they did add those details for Doku which is a nice fact.

[@speed1443]

Is alright you can make a first-contact patrol

[@PhantomSinger1]

I much prefer if there's at least some reference or introduction in the main story, rather than relying entirely on external sources to go on about it in detail. Not everyone has the spare money or (previously) time to follow every piece of side story to fill in all the gaps in the main story. Who's this new character and why are they supposed to be so important right off the bat? Why is a previously predictable character suddenly acting like two or three different people? Were there any hints in the story so far, or will it be explained via Tweet later to make the writer look extra clever?

[@barrybend7189]

Gundam has a Wiki that even they reference( it appears in Gundam Build Divers Re Rise as a fun meta joke). Also most fans at least recommend that you watch the UC main series( MSG, Zeta, ZZ and Char's Counter Attack) before exploring the main continuity( also to start with at least one non UC series for added experience).

[@ManabiLT]

I definitely dislike _Star Trek's_ approach. I read quite a few of the novels when I was younger, but as I got older the fact that none of it was canon and things could change dramatically between novels started bothering me. If they had them set up so that things that happened in one novel impacted the novel universe, and there was a consistent canonicity between all the novels I'd be fine with that. I just feel like if I'm going to read novels that are stand-alone as far as canon goes anyway, I might as well spend my time reading novels set in their own universes and expand the science fiction universes I'm aware of and (hopefully) enjoy.

[@barrybend7189]

Meanwhile Mobile Suit Gundam: noobs. For example Gundam Universal Century is Cononicaly 0079( with 0080 War in the pocket and 0083 Stardust Memory), Zeta, ZZ, Char's Counter Attack, Unicorn and NT, F90, F91( with Silhouette F91side story), Crossbone Gundam, Crossbone ghost, Victory, Crossbone Dust then it goes to G Reco then Turn A. All other timelines are a little bit simpler on main canon.

[@nification7883]

Try looking into the Dot Hack franchise. THATs confusing.

[@barrybend7189]

@@nification7883 .hack is actually much easier to figure out than the Gundam or most notorious the Fate series.

[@jm823]

Transmedia is often a good way of transitioning new works in a plot hole or a way of expanding existing canon without deviating too far from existing lore and screwing up continuity.

[@themark443]

Personally, I think Mass Effect did a great job (with the exception of one book and maybe one game) with using its "extra canonical" material. I was already sucked into the universe and jumped onboard the books and the comics that led into ME2. I think some of it was details that they just didn't have the time or budget for to put into the game. Star Trek also has a good approach with some of its Memory Beta stuff. Considering how the franchise itself has been fairly stale, I see no problems with them borrowing some details to tell a story that most people are unaware of. Star Wars just seems like a mess especially with Disney coming in and saying "everything that comes out in games or shows is canon now". Especially since the Battlefront 2 campaign story was just so weird and felt like a way to shoehorn famous characters in to get people to buy the game (or spend money on multiplayer). Overall, I don't think there's a bad approach between ME, ST, and DW. As long as there's a consistent way to fit it in that doesn't involve shattering canon, it's fine.

[@Wi-Fi-El]

Honestly transmedia storytelling is hard to do. I like that star trek has a handful of alternate timelines to explore, but it can get confusing when you have content like alpha canon, beta canon, Kelvin timeline, the mirror world, etc that all kind of overlap. Star wars legends and Disney canon are a bit easier for me to follow since you have two defined separate timelines

[@mattevans4377]

Honestly the advice should just be 'tread carefully'. In fact, this should apply in general. Making wrecking ball stories that just exist to up-end everything we know, comes across as incredibly insulting to people.

[@KitchenerRM]

Just gonna add in here that Doctor Who's approach (or non-approach) to canon is due to it's status as a BBC product. The BBC isn't allowed to create a story that requires a seperate purchase (say, a comic, novel or audio drama) to fully understand it. They got into trouble with that over some Eastenders content that was never broadcast on TV but still counted. Doctor Who's solution is never to mention it on the show (save a cheeky reference here or there) and for the BBC never to comment on what is or isn't canon. It kind of has Schrödinger's Canon for it's spin-off works. That Big Finish play you're listening to both does and doesn't count. It should also be noted that when the series was cancelled in 1989, it was continued almost immediately by books and comics (and later, audio plays with the original actors) all featuring disparate and incompatible continuities. This led fans to only follow their prefered format, leading to a loose feeling (which still kinda persists in fandom) that you pick your battles with canon, and only YOUR chosen format counts (despite the fact it doesn't). What's more, given Doctor Who features time travel plus a massively disruptive temporal event between the old series and new, you've got the ultimate get-out clause. All these things happened as shown for the Doctor, it's just "our" history may no longer show it that way.

[@IGLXenix]

First, I love Mass Effect, but I've never been beyond the games and DLC. I should probably read some of the extra materials for it... As a fan, I'd like to know what I read is cannon, giving more insight to the stories and worlds they are a part off, being able to see the elements of those books or comics in the main story is great, as such, I really like the way Mass Effect has been done. But, as a writer and author, I really like to write things that isn't cannon to the main story, events that isn't possible less it create plot holes and contradict or subvert the main story and world, making What If shorts and the like. I'm torn between my feelings as a reader, and my feelings as a writer... I don't know which I should go by... maybe it's the story that is more important, a good story that is worth telling is far better then a okay story that fits in cannon, but the best must be those that are good that fits in cannon, and can be made aware of in the main story without having being 'required reading.' There, that's my option... took me a while to get there. This comment is my thoughts as I wrote it... mm... took me a while, I don't wanna delete it now... :p

[@stueymon]

I don't think there's an example of getting to the perfect balance but there is a way to screw it up royally Looking at you Defiance, did you even remember things in the game were supposed to affect the TV show?

[@andrewshearsby8125]

Hate it at times especiallyvwhen it contradicts each other...

[@nunyabusinesss1476]

I would like all the main points to be in-game and anything else as an optional side story to further explore events. I hate it in games when they throw something at you out of the blue and when you do a lil research you find that it was covered in a novel by such and such. If it's main story content than imo it should be in the game, I shouldn't have to go to an outside source. Side stuff, like things that flesh out the characters or maybe a glimpse into a past event I don't mind, but when a character/main plot point pops up and you're like "Who the heck is this" "Oh they were introduced in the novel so and so by *insert author*", I get a lil miffed I must say. Call me old fashioned I guess. lol

[@Timjer92]

Well, another great offender I can think about would be Halo. As of 343 taking over, the big EU has pretty much become homework if you want to understand the main games. But to answer your question, I think Mass Effect probably has the best balance between the main story and the EU.

[@phrophetsamgames]

I've been an OG "Legends" EU fan since I was a kid. Hated Disney since they bought Star Wars and I've been throughly disappointed with the content they've put out with some exceptions. From the New Trilogy, Solo Movie, Battlefront, Rebels and even the Mandalorian. I never felt they were "Star Wars". While some like MAndalorian and Battelfront are enjoyable, they aren't Star Wars movies to me. I enjoyed Rogue One and the Clone Wars though. But at the end of the day my headcanon will always include Legends. It's had that much of a profound effect on me and my childhood.

[@WizardJim]

Then there's Warhammer 40K's approach - everything is canon, from someone's perspective. Even the really weird 1st edition stuff.

[@richmcgee434]

Squats riding zoats riding skyboards for the win, baby. :)

[@grayscribe1342]

I think you are missing an important point, that the creators of these movies and shows overlook. The Fans are more likely to go for the extra content than the general public, which can have consequences. Starting with that if the causal viewer notices that there is important information missing in a movie, which BTW will look like a plot hole, they may sooner or later ignore a Franchise because of it's bad writing. Having to consume Transmedia to understand a movie can be seen (and I think it is) as a scam. You could just as well ask for separate payments for the beginning of a movie, it's middle and it's resolution, with different prices, depending on the production costs of each part. And it doesn't help that the Fans are likely the ones that read the additional books and comics if this additional material closes some plot holes, but creates new ones. BTW, these Fans are the ones that get ignored and even insulted by these companies and their representatives, but it's these Fans that make the Transmedia profitable in the first place. Like it or not, you can't eat a cake and keep it. Afterthought: The causal viewer today is more likely to get wind on how badly a story has been mangled because of the internet, which will taint their willingness to watch another bad movie that has content missing. I am aware about project planning and how this effects such franchises, but honestly? We live in the 21st century. If they can't afford a department that keeps track of the happenings and timeline of a franchise that writers can use to keep their story straight? If I want my Franchise to be successful, I'd consider it as part of the production cost that such a database is kept. They could of course do the smart thing. Keep such a database and have writers pick an older book and have that made into a movie or episode. Or maybe show some consequences of it in the movie or an episode as a sequel. This method has to include two things. One, a marketing that makes it clear that it is a sequel to a book and two, a re-release of the said book. Books can be digital or on print-on-demand if they are too fearful to invest into another print run. But I consider the current way how they do things in general as unsatisfying and lazy. With the exception of Doctor Who, where, as you said, the whole concept of continuity is not exactly part of the concept. But take RoS. What would have an explanation cost? "Yes, I live. I was ready to die and transfer myself into a clone body. The destruction of the Death Star however was not part of my plan and it took me years to reach this body, only to learn, that a clone body can't take my power for long. I have been switching from body to body since then, but now, you are here. My granddaughter, a young and powerful body that can house my power." I'm no writer, so of course this is clunky, but my comment is already too long and I wanted to keep it short. But there, all the explanation a movie goer needed to how and why. And I haven't even seen the movie. I've read Dark Empire.But from what I've heard, this should deal with most problems. Maybe, just maybe the Fans should crowdfund and buy their beloved franchises. I'm not saying that would eliminate all problems (quite the contrary), but at least the result would be from passion and with more thought that those so-called 'professionals'.

[@keelanbarron928]

"Tansmedia"?

[@davidlindholm3889]

Tansmedia? So it's about Irish occupation propaganda?

[@skywise001]

You missed a point to my amazement. The temporyness of some of the materials. Fortnight wont be running Palpatine's story. Comic books degrade and are often limited by copyright, etc. It adds a layer of you shouldnt do this its nuts to the thing. As someone just exploring Mass Effect I dont want to read books or comics I want to play my game and have it all in there. Knowing they exist actually dampens my excitement - it feels more like work.

[@spencerruston406]

May not be the best but my favourite method is Warhammer 40,000's "Everything is canon, but not everything is true" so that way a incredibly bad book in-canon might have just been propaganda or the mad ravings of senior scribe Ian #2209482283-W who was later killed by the Arbites.

[@barrybend7189]

Then there's the infamous scribe known as Ian Watson.

[@spencerruston406]

@@barrybend7189 Yeah... Would have been real funny if I made a joke about Senior scribe Ian #[long number]-W's mad ravings, wouldn't it...

[@barrybend7189]

@@spencerruston406 Bruva Alphabusa did a whole segment about him. Lets not try and one up that brave man.

[@sideshowkazstuff3867]

The anoying part of transmedia for someone like me is acsessability. Not only do i have to look all over the place to get a full storyline most bits will be inacsessable like comics or a game where anyone who’s played it online skips all the cutscenes. Having sight thats not good enough for games and comics now kind of limits me to only watching whats on screen if its audio discribed or hoping someone did an audio version of a book. it getss very limiting. I’m more than a little miffed at startrek Picard at putting a chunk of story into a comic.

[@tyreecebaker6600]

👍

[@marcusmanchester7095]

I think I'd just like published and updated story bibles for franchises. These are the facts, do not deviate. I think this would go a long way to clearing up questions and bizarre head canon fan theories or stories that are truly out of left field and never mentioned again. I think DS9 did a great job of keeping its own continuity straight, but TNG and especially VOY were very blase with events. It seems the writers would make something up, it would be incredibly important, and then it would never be mentioned again. This is why the magically repaired damage or the infinite shuttle supply or the dire need for supplies popping up and disappearing in the same episode bother so many people. While it was a different time, how many redshirts did Kirk Burn through? How many people died through Voyager's run? How often did dire damage occur? Publish pertinent facts, make that canon, refer back to it when writing new material, new material adds to the facts, don't deviate from established events, and don't ignore the facts.

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

Now you're seeing the problem with episodic storytelling vs. serialized: too many times in Trek serialization was seen as "bad" because someone couldn't just drop into a random episode (esp. when syndicated, even though syndication tends to have episodes randomly trimmed to cram in more commercials, sacrificing story) and know what was going on. Now, in the Age of Binging, you could do entire serialized arcs/seasons/series' and it's not a problem. Trek still found a way around the serialization ban by having story arcs occur over time, in multiple episodes, like the Klingon Civil War, the original Borg arc in TNG and DS9, etc.

[@barrybend7189]

Or you literally help manage a wiki like Gundam. They even mention the wiki in Build Divers Re Rise.

[@marcusmanchester7095]

@@Corbomite_Meatballs And that's why DS9 is a great example of a progressive show. It had storylines that ran throughout, but with the exception of a few arcs in the last three seasons, you can pretty much watch any episode and know what's going on. And yet the show as a whole was incredibly cohesive and it doesn't fall into the same trap TNG does by having a status quo reset at the end of every episode.

[@marcusmanchester7095]

@@barrybend7189 Definitely possible now, but wasn't possible as recently as the early 2000s.

[@barrybend7189]

@@marcusmanchester7095 there was always the magazines and studio bibles. Its just as soon as the Wiki appeared they capitalized on it.

[@LMG1792]

Halo does a pretty good job to i think for the most part.

[@Soundwave142]

Star Trek Online never considered themselves “Soft Canon”. Meaning that they do not really consider themselves canon but will make themselves canon as much as possible.

[@UGNAvalon]

“do not really consider themselves canon but will make themselves canon as much as possible.” - wait, so do they want to be canon, or do they not? Or, did you mean “they recognize they’ll never be considered canon, but still aim to be canon-consistent (ie not-canon-breaking) wherever possible” ?

[@Soundwave142]

UGNAvalon What I’m trying to say is that they will adapt their story to go along with the official canon.

[@robmckee5295]

I would be cautious about consuming sci fi that doesn't take it's fans seriously.

[@ilejovcevski79]

Not a great fan overall. Though on occasion i can see it working (like in the Mass Effect case), most of the time i feel left out and by extension unable to enjoy the said work of media. This is especially so with movies and-or TV shows, a form of media that i tend to consume when i have much less time available on my hands. If a movie expects me to read a novel "in order to get it right", i might just as well read a novel, and not waste my time with the film.

[@elessal]

the fourth mass effect novel was a disaster. feels like people in charge of canon consistency, as well as quality check, were sleeping during its publication. it ruined and killed characters from the two previous books. you think the star wars sequels were bad? this book was worse. also, the phone games were shit. pure lazy and likely non-canonic crash-grab. and that was even worse, because mass effect infiltrator could have had made a great pc/console game, taking place during mass effect 3. it could have been something like the halo ODST of the franchise.

[@argotungsten4336]

Star Trek built into itself form the beginning side stories (alternate timelines) , and set a strong distinction between cannon and side stories in another universe in cannon . That’s fine because it limits contradictions. But primary universe is primary universe . That’s it . For example: JJ Abrams universe IS alternate . It said so in the reboot movie , and very specifically. That’s ok . At least they paid some respect to the original cannon. Discovery is how to disrespect cannon. And that’s CBS’s fail specifically! Instead of just saying it’s alternate, they insisted it’s cannon ...WHEN IT CLEARLY WAS NOT! The problem with discovery (std of star trek) was that it rewrote how Vulcans worked . How Klingons work , and even how they look. It changed main founding franchises characters . It did so much to rewrite so much it’s hard to see this as respective the original series that has been in tv and film for decades . They just ignored a lot of it. CBS doesn’t seem to understand that every franchise has its base culture. Something about it that makes it unique to its group of core fans that have sustained them literally for decades. When u ignore all that , then go out and attack the fans who call u out (@CBS) and you bash them in tv and take their fans to court , it shows how you truly feel about the franchise you own. Sadly it’s a trend that shows the difference of generations and ideologies. Original content had someone’s vision. The later content (Trek and wars) is guided by companies who sometimes don’t give a damn about any beliefs, just mass produce to the masses and water everything down so it maximizes profits rather than quality of content . Now , having said all this , it’s important to note that they ALL have flaws . None come close to being perfect . And we see the past prejudices being replaced with currently accepted prejudices...

[@snakedaemonart676]

Transmedia or tansmedia Pick 1

[@scottmantooth8785]

*transfluid media can get really confusing*

[@TevyaSmolka]

multimedia is kinda a double edge sword and frankly Disney star wars has been a complete and utter mess

[@TacComControl]

Honestly, the whole argument is moot. These properties belong to their owners, and those owners have a right to declare whatever they want to be "Canon" or not, and to be perfectly frank, much of Star Wars' books read like terrible fanfiction anyway.

[@ozsdcontentcreator1068]

It's spelt Cartmel and pronounced that way!

[@Mate397]

Having a solid expanded universe is fine, but doing something moronic like intentionally cutting up content to FORCE people into finding it is just bad story telling. Especially when said cut content isn't advertised at all. A great example would be what Alien Covenant did. A lot of character development/exposition was cut from the movie to make them into youtube shorts. While the movie would still suck with the inclusion of those the principal still stands.