The Crimes Of Modern Localization

[@DimitriMonroe]

"But Dimitri you said you were gonna keep talking about old games next" Yea well a commenter said that would make me a nostalgic critic so in good conscious I can’t do that.

[@yosh0wnd]

But you watched the bad translations so I didn't have to

[@tuseroni6085]

could make you an angry video game nerd

[@garretwoeller7669]

Don't care about games you make good vid nough said

[@edgarmorales9950]

Can you imagine? A femboy version of the Nostalgia Critic?

[@HSnake5]

nigga just do what you want

[@betacuck8146]

"paimon is agender actually, mihoyo told me personally" has the exact same energy as "my uncle works at nintendo"

[@mojavefry2617]

I mean, Paimon is obviously feminine, but Paimon is also named after a male demon from the Ars Goetia. I can see why someone may reach that conclusion.

[@betacuck8146]

agender representation is still pretty scarce these days and if people can see a little of themselves in the characters they love that's wonderful, i would never take that away from them it's just the idea of an actor claiming authority over a character's identity to better suit their own when they clearly took no part in its creation that i find a bit distasteful

[@ikhwaneivan4303]

reason why i prefer jp paimon or anyother that are not english. urgh... that va irks me so much

[@chunkyhunkybebe2527]

And the whole Link or Samus is trans thing, while I think if this character is something that made you realize you’re trans good for you 👍 but people trying to prove this by literally taking pictures of Samus on smash saying she’s “Packing” or since link has an “Androgynous” body (Which I have nothing against but at the same time have no idea wtf that means) makes no sense to me, this hasn’t been confirmed neither can people really provide any proof especially people saying he’s enby. You can have a headcanon but people need to STOP claiming characters as such and such and making it seem like a fact.

[@narudayo5053]

@@mojavefry2617 Just because a character is based of an original person/character doesn't mean that they have to follow the same gender and appearance. And anime is huge about that, there is plenty of characters based of deities and demons that have the opposite gender. There is soooo many female characters based and named after Astaroth

[@CYBER_FunkER]

"It's not that it's using political terms from ideologies I disagree with, its using them at all." I've been saying this for years now and no one ever listens to me.

[@dustinm2717]

Honestly this when western political shenanigans are just randomly shoehorned in by wanna-seem progressives regardless of if i agree with it or not it really just does feel out of place in a fictional story set in a place that is shockingly not america or alike america, especially when its done as badly as some of these localisers are doing it (throwing in buzzwords wherever you feel like doesn't make you progressive)

[@nickkorkodylas5005]

That's kinda wrong though. 4chan and other imageboards used nazi and racist imagery in their translation teams' logos *specifically* to create a triggering environment and gatekeep against such people and it worked just fine for years.

[@Draggao]

@@nickkorkodylas5005 Are you seriously comparing 4chan to an official dub made by professional dubbers?

[@nickkorkodylas5005]

@@Draggao Yeah, says a lot about the professionalism and productivity levels of the "professionals".

[@rockytom5889]

@@Draggao Are those professional dubbers all certified by ATA, if in the US? Cause if they aren't, they are not professionals, but merely people who know some language, and should be held to a muvh higher standard anyways since corporate gets the source notes and everything when they want to dub, fan dubs have none of it, you have to watch the show to get it and translate. So the fact that the professionals of a company aren't better by a unbeatable margin than fandubs in quality and faithfulness to the source material, just goes to show they give the job to the cheapest employee who speaks the toungue and their editor later proofreads it and adds their own moral crusade to it, cause editors love their power trips, otherwise they wouldn't be editors. You shouldn't need anything but several certified translators, a tech, and a customer to sell to to dub. Why would you need an editor if you aren't creating source material?

[@Animekirk]

American localization is the single biggest argument in favor of fansubs and piracy.

[@frogglen6350]

Not really. One of the fansubs for the gintama anime claimed that an alien will "rape" a girl. Which isn't accurate to the show at all and is a word that the show would never use.

[@jeice13]

At this point half the reason i use free sites is the chance i dont get official translations

[@garretwoeller7669]

That or translators shouldn't fuck with original products I swear creators should start sueing em since altering work without permission there is something in copyright law about that specific shit

[@Animekirk]

@@frogglen6350 I've been watching both localizations works and fansubs for close to 20 years. The fansubs get closer to the meaning of the original work 90% of the time. Not every fansub is perfect. But it's hard finding ANY localization nowadays that doesnt somehow royally fuck the meaning right out of the source material and then add insult to injury by insulting the entire fanbase for disagreeing. I'll take the occasional inaccurate fansub any day.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@frogglen6350 which episode? Cause r@pe is a topic in Gintama. The fansubs for Gintama were great. Always nice when they explained a joke or reference that was very heavily rooted in Japanese culture. I was sad when the newer episodes only had the official subs available since they didn't do anything like that.

[@RozalinGaming]

I used to work in Japan as a translator and editor on projects outside the scope of games and anime. Recently, I've been playing through games that I once played through in Japanese in English and with each game my respect and confidence in the western localization industry keeps falling. Speaking strictly from games, I've noticed mistakes that range from 'easily preventable if the localizer/editor just looked at the scene in question' to ones that call into question whether or not the translator of a specific scene even understands Japanese. Then there are the localizations in which the translators add in excessive amounts of extra dialogue that wasn't even present in the original script and/or the addition of translations that obviously seek to push an agenda that again, wasn't in the original script. It's very frustrating and disheartening.

[@diegoseba12]

Can you please give us some examples? It's not like I don't believe you, but I'm seriously intrigued to know what they're specifically doing.

[@RozalinGaming]

@@diegoseba12 To give some examples from some game's I've been playing through recently in English: Cold Steel 1: Rean and Emma are walking back to the dorm and discussing how they think they will do on their upcoming midterm exams. In English, the dialogue is written such that these exams have already taken place. Cold Steel 1: There is a bonding scene with Emma in which the text jots outside of the text box. Cold Steel 1: The character Fie has a background as a mercenary, or Jaeger in those games. This isn't revealed to the characters in game until about halfway through, though the player learns of this earlier. There is a scene in which Rean mentions Fie's past as a Jaeger well before he is supposed to know this information. This mention of her past was added to the English script and not present in Japanese (obviously because Rean shouldn't know about Fie's past at that point yet). Cold Steel 3: Major Michael is introducing himself to Rean. In English, he mentions that, "Despite this being a branch academy, I will do my best." This interaction drops a critical character building line from the Japanese script in which Major Michael actually said, "Despite being from the military, I will do my best at this branch academy." The English loses the critical context that Major Michael sees himself as a military person first, and teacher second. This is continued later when they change 15:00 to 3:00 PM, despite being spoken by Major Michael and it being a military academy. Cold Steel 3: Also has text that jots outside of the text boxes; additionally, the same thing happens to the X graphic that indicates when you can progress to the next text box. Cold Steel 3: There is a plant in this series known as the Pleroma Plant, and it is often referred to as an Azure Flower or Scarlet Flower. However, this is translated this as 'grass', even though they could also simply look at its graphic in game and see that it is clearly not grass. Cold Steel 3: There is a scene in which one character refers to another as "McFirebro". The referred to character's name is McBurn. This scene happens when the characters are placing flowers on a grave that represents the burial of an entire town that was destroyed. The character who uses the nickname doesn't actually use a nickname in Japanese; she instead refers to McBurn by one of his titles (which is often used throughout the series, even in English). Despite this entire scene being a serious and somber one, the translator decided it would be appropriate to not only use a nickname where it wasn't used in the original script, but to try and add humor to a situation in which humor shouldn't be present; with a terrible nickname at that. Cold Steel 3: Rean is thanking some of the other characters for helping him out and all three are standing right in front of him; despite this, when talking to one of them (Fie), he talks as if she isn't even there ("So Fie will be doing ... "). This is in contrast to the other two in which he specifically mentions, "So you'll be doing ..." I also have a video in which I covered Persona 5 Royal's translation mistakes but I would rather not link it in another creator's comment section.

[@lynbot2377]

I have a genuine suspicion that many localizers literally don't speak japanese at all, instead just using google translate and then using that as a base for their fanfic-tier translation.

[@revolvingworld2676]

@@RozalinGaming By the way. Trails of Zero and Azure were fan translated before their official reveal. I'm curious if you played the fan translations. And if so, how accurate would you say those are. I know characters like Randy uses alot of modern slang and he speaks differently than he does in CS3 and I'm wondering if this is a translation thing or a character development thing.

[@RozalinGaming]

@@revolvingworld2676 I have not played either fan translation; however, from the screenshots I've seen I think they are atrocious. The fan translators purposely made changes because they felt it would be "better" (one thing I strongly disagree with in any translation is the translator taking the work and making it their own). You'd get a higher quality translation by having Google translate do all the work for you.

[@ausaskar]

The people who complain about "gatekeeping" are the exact people the gate is supposed to keep out.

[@Potassiumkloride]

I think another big reason why changes like the ones 4Kids made in the past were/are more acceptable is that a lot of those changes were made to bring the show within the limits of the stricter North American broadcasting rules, on top of changing the age demographic the show was intended for outright (usually taking anime meant for preteens/teens and localizing it for the 6-12 age range). It's a lot easier to accept alterations when the end result is not meant to be representative of the original, and especially when the alternative is the show not being allowed to air at all. Modern localizations on streaming sites don't have these excuses, and present their work as faithful to the original, so there's no reason to have done it and no warning to the viewer that the localized version takes creative liberties not intended by the creators of the work.

[@Argroh]

if I recall correctly, the reason 4kids got Onepeice was because it was part of a deal with Toei for Kinikuman Nisei (read: Ultimate Muscle) they were also contracted to do Onepeice and Doremi... ...which they didn't want at all, thus their infamous quallity...

[@Code7Unltd]

@@Argroh I thought the package deal was for Shaman King.

[@WaterKirby1994]

I heard 4kids wanted Doremi most from that package deal, while Toei was trying to force One Piece onto whoever they could get to dub it. You have to wonder why Toei didn't try to get the Digimon dubbers to dub One Piece back in 2000.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

@@WaterKirby1994because Saban respects its audience.

[@MrSTVR]

Tl;dr some American localizers gleefully butcher Japanese people's writing just to pander to their Twitter friends and bully the anime's target audience. It's another hair-ripping episode of "How Do These People Have A Job?"

[@tophan5146]

How Do These People Have A Job? All the translators who are worth a damn are always quick to move on to live action movies, books and official documents. That's where the real money is, and that's also the sort of thing you should do if you want to be taken seriously as a translator. The result? Animé and videogames are the bottom of the barrel subject that gets handled by the bottom of the barrel translators. It's precisely the kind of stuff that the companies are comfortable to leave to otherwise useless kids who are fresh out of college. And what are those fresh out of college kids like these days? Well... lemme just say that the language and literature studies departments are even more aggressively woke than the gender studies departments.

[@TOUGHEYES]

@@tophan5146 stop playing around, and goddamn purge these people. Its a historical fact, that in Ireland, Trinity College Dublin, 50 years ago all the snobs in that structure contemptuously hung out of their windows of the college building and talked crap about all of the working class who were commuting to the city to actually work. They kept doing it, and all the attitudes we see with the far left now, were attitudes held then. There is an insult for people in Dublin, called "Westbrit" which essentially tars an Irish man as a pathetic, 'cultured' product of this kind of mindset. But it all stopped, when another university's students, led by Charles Haughey, just went into Trinity one night. And beat the shit out of both the faculty, and the students. It wasn't a riot; a riot presumes that there was looting and burning and the destruction of property. It was a come-uppance, and a wakeup call that the people with self-righteous, exclusivist mindsets and pseudo-intellectual dogmas are far from immune against sheer, unbridled and deserving violence. If this only took place in one college or university, on its own, it will be demonised as a plot by the far right. The reality is, the smear may come anyway, but EVERYONE has to reject these freaks and their bad faith, bullying beliefs. Bloody their damn nose, and if it doesn't stop them come back thrice as strong.

[@AuroraAce.]

"How Do These People Have A Job?" lol I just exclaimed this sentence out loud in my room before I read this comment

[@MoreEvilThanYahweh]

Once these creatures get into HR departments or management, they ensure more of their kind gets in. Like metastatising cancer cells. This is compounded further when they get into media and executives/management types who are otherwise impartial and only care about money mistake their manufactured outrage or "what the fans really want" take what the rotten media says at face value as they don't personally care about the fine details of their product. They operate at the higher levels where operations are interchangeable despite whatever product is being sold.

[@Rakaziel]

Blackmail probably.

[@catoticneutral]

So you're telling me that there's an alternate universe where ni ni was translated to big chungus

[@HazeX2]

Big chungy

[@faztznya5207]

4Kids universe

[@Reyreychills]

I'm gonna call my brother that someday I swear

[@carlospitteri3146]

We can't have good things 😭😭

[@user-xh6ju3pg8c]

Satoko intensifies

[@VanN000]

As a translator by hobby, and someone who grew up being multilingual, it’s honestly sorta depressing how so many people in the industry are completely fine with erasing culture willy nilly. You can localize something so that it doesn’t go over western audience’s head, but not so much that you’re actually erasing evidence of where and who made the original.

[@trashboat5388]

welcome to America it's our specialty

[@doujinrocknroller]

My friend studying linguistics once said this, "An English speaker can learn a language like French without learning French culture, but you can't learn Japanese without learning Japanese culture because the language and culture are so intertwined."

[@slimehermit]

As a Vtuber once said, "It takes great understanding to make a pun in another language" And then she cringy pats herself on the back with a pun following it. I love that chicken from KPF

[@urphakeandgey6308]

Pretty much. Japanese and English are just so different linguistically and culturally, as you said. Japanese is often considered a language isolate, whereas English and other European language all tend to share common origins. (Latin, Greek, and even further Proto-indo-european.) Add on top of that the fact that most European languages share similar cultures and it's no wonder Japanese is so foreign. Many European languages even share equivalent expressions and interjections. Japanese simply does not and some people have a very hard time understanding this.

[@peachesandcream8753]

@@urphakeandgey6308 Even if people consider Japanese to be a language isolate it most certainly is not. Japanese and Korean have a lot of similarities mostly because the Yayoi Japanese (the vast majority of modern Japanese people) came from Korea in the first place and it also shares some Ainu words and phrases. Ainu is the language which is isolate but Japanese is not. In regards to the original comment that you can learn French without learning the culture is false. To learn any language you need to learn the culture around that language because culture influences language and not the other way around.

[@Al_Xe]

Peaches and Cream I think the dude probably meant you could get by learning French without learning the culture, not that you could pro without learning the culture.

[@peachesandcream8753]

@@Al_Xe Well you can do the same with Japanese too. Learning both fluently requires understanding of their cultures but just learning words and phrases to make basic conversation doesn't require it. This idealising of Japanese is really weird in my opinion.

[@humrH2360]

What I hate the most about this is that it's all just a symptom of a greater disease: the western hemisphere of the entertainment industry is dominated by people who DESPISE their audience, and want to make everything about themselves and their egos.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

That’s why most American tv show producers think the viewers are unintelligent crotch goblins.

[@thepastaprogenitor851]

Collectivism now holds the reigns to colonialism. That's the simplest way I can say it

[@tomstokoe5660]

Maybe what they hate is that they can't make their own stuff so they take it out on the audience. Who really wants to spend their whole life just translating other people's work or making new adaptions of other people's work which no matter how good it is you can never really take credit for because it fundamentally isn't yours.

[@thepastaprogenitor851]

@@tomstokoe5660 if that was the concern, they would have written their own novels, they haven't

[@TechBlade9000]

@@thepastaprogenitor851 They can, they just get no momentum. Not even just a they suck thing, people just trust bigger names more.

[@kingbash6466]

Bad localization is when everyone saw the dub for “Ghost Stories” and thought, “Yeah, we can do that too”, not understanding that the dub only became that way because the original creators didn’t care about the show and gave the localization team complete creative control.

[@deadaccount2968]

Near complete. They couldn't change names, the ghosts names or how they were defeated. Everything else was fair game.

[@inendlesspain4724]

Kinda unrelated, but I have honestly come to hate the english dub of Ghost Stories. Partially because it has become yet another one of those unfunny memes people won't shut up about. Partially because I watched the show as a kid through the latin spanish dub, which is more accurate to the original script, and I loved it back then. I'm not going to argue that it's a great show or anything, but being reminded all the time that a show that I loved so much as a kid and had so much influence in my preferences is nothing but a joke for the internet at large is really frustrating.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

Also, the original was complete dogshit, so fucking with it wasn't really a big deal.

[@SuperLlama42]

Not only was Ghost Stories a complete lightning-in-a-bottle situation that could not and should not ever be repeated, but most of the best jokes were ones the VAs would never make in the modern day because they're too spicy (i.e. the girl breaking up with her pet rabbit boyfriend because he's black)

[@thelastgogeta]

@@GeraltofRivia22 Isn't that what outtakes (Berserk had some good ones) or an abridged dub is for? A gag dub should be a bonus if it is feasible to afford it.

[@soarel325]

On the topic of BOTW, Nintendo also cut all of Link’s inner monologue in his journal simply because the translators didn’t like him having romantic feelings for Zelda, literally removing a character’s entire personality in translation out of a desire to rewrite to match their personal biases. Literally nothing else gets translated like this. No “high art” gets this treatment in English and barely anything gets treated like this anymore when translating into other languages (in the west at least…we still see hilarious censorship in stuff like the Malaysian TL of Attack on Titan’s manga) But totally, if you have a problem with this you must want machine translations. There are only two options in translation!

[@davidwilson4446]

... but even in the cutscenes and Zeldas dialogue heavily implies a romantic interest... removing those thoughts literally does nothing... and Zelda and link already had a game where they were love interests... skyward sword so why did they do that?

[@IzzySarru]

This is the second comment I've seen covering this...WTH! I feel cheated now. Guess it's time to double-down on those DuoLingo Japanese lessons...

[@damocles7406]

I cannot describe my rage.

[@hiidenkiuas]

What’s your source for that claim? I’ve looked up things about that ever since playing botw but i have not once seen that reasoning

[@soarel325]

@@hiidenkiuas There was a ton of coverage of it

[@PostApocolyptica]

7:13 I personally maintain that 4Kids' addition of the Shadow Realm to Yu-Gi-Oh is, hands down, one of the best localisations to date. They made a euphemism for death that was so fitting for the fantastical setting of a mystical card game that it genuinely could've been part of the original Japanese material - and yet, it wasn't.

[@vla1ne]

I actually to this day, prefer the shadow realm to "death". It adds more to the series than standard death

[@kompuglobalhypermega]

@@vla1ne Indeed. Being tortured for an eternity in another dimension sounds creepier, than just kicking the bucket.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

@@kompuglobalhypermega Yugi kinda does that to Kaiba in a chapter of the manga, he traps him inside dungeon dice monsters or something iirc

[@oliviacole7427]

yes totally agree i love this change personally i hate it when characters only to come back to life like an episode or two later with the shadow realm there basically in a coma so it makes sense for them to come back after a bit

[@crikeybaguette4564]

And also for all the memes that it spawned.

[@yeetghostrat]

This is why, after 15 years of saying "I'm learning Japanese so I can watch anime", I have finally buckled down and started /actually/ studying, so I can watch anime. Well, actually to play jrpgs, I don't watch much anime, but same situation

[@ExtremeWreck]

I already said this, so I'll just copy-paste it: I mean, heck, from what I can tell Japanese is an easier language to get into than English as Japanese is a consistent language that tells you what their culture can be like in some words, & there's a general flow to it that's always there to guide you. English on the other hand is an incomprehensible mess of inconsistency, differentiating pronounces in just about every turn just to trick you into thinking you know what the word means at that point, & just downright insanity. Doesn't help that the English language was the result of some of the absolute WORST translations to Latin ever in human history from WAYYYY back in the ol' days, or in simpler terms, it's a jumbled, broken mix of different languages that are otherwise almost completely different from each other, combined together into THE hardest language to ever learn, let alone MASTER. Seriously, if you'd think we've done some good coverage of English as of now... oh no no no, we're just at the very tippy top of the iceberg of this broken-beyond-repair language. Here's an additional note: For anyone who only speaks a foreign language, & wants to learn English, maybe it's best that you don't as I have stated above that it's just a very incomprehensible, broken language that'll end up taking you about 30 YEARS TO LEARN AT LEAST 0.00000000000000000000000000004 PERCENT OF IT!?!?!? Seriously, you really have to see for yourself just how bad English can really get. It can get freakin' wild, like I'm talking "WHAT KIND OF CREATURE WOULD BE ABLE TO PRONOUNCE SUCH A WORD!?" levels of wild.

[@yeetghostrat]

@@ExtremeWreck haha, yeah. English sucks. With a disability that makes it hard to learn anything, I consider myself lucky that it's my first language. There's no way in h3ll I could have learned it after my brain got too far messed up. The hardest part about Japanese for me is the memorization of the characters, my glitched out brain just doesn't want to do that The Korean writing system tho. Hangul is f-ing genius. I learned that in a week, using only a Korean kindergarten handbook. Even though I was not able to make any of the language itself stick. After 10 years without any actual practice, I can still read it.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@yeetghostrat Really? Nice, guess Hangul must be one of the easiest languages to learn. It's not like English where it'd take you forever to learn, & you get no reward for learning it other than the ability to read some really Toxic Twitter feeds, & whatnot. I mean, sure, English can be done well, but the simple fact is that English was literally just a horrific result of attempts at translating some books from around the early AD times to Latin, which ended up leading to the translations being SOOOOOOO BAD that they ended up creating a brand new, inconsistent language that makes written Tibetan look like A CAKEWALK in comparison!!! Yeah, imagine creating a new language by making translations so freakin' bad that they're straight up unreadable to the people who speak the language it was originally meant to be translated in. That's just EMBARASSING!!!

[@yeetghostrat]

@@ExtremeWreck English is useful, if only because we have forced the rest of the world to accommodate us. Any largely populated area in the world has accommodations to help english speakers navigate, and almost all schools in wealthy nations require english classes. Disgusting history behind it, but convenient. I'd be perfectly capable of going to most cities around the world and still enjoy a vacation, without knowing a lick of the native language or a translator. That wouldn't be possible if I only spoke any other language. Japan, for instance, I'd have to be kinda dumb to get lost in Tokyo.... which I am so I am going to have to learn. But my little sisted lived in Misawa for a couple years and had no mishaps to write home about, she only knows a few words.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@yeetghostrat Well, English can be useful for certain things indeed, but I believe it can be useful to learn so you can realize just how freakin' bad things can get when making an English. The more you learn English, the more you realize how incomprehensible, illogical, insane, & broken the language is to the point where you'd see that English is that one language that's truly impossible to actually make a perfect sentence out of because it just is so horribly dysfunctional to the point that any attempts at trying to speak it would make you look like a fool, & will just leave you wondering how the heck you're even supposed to pronounce some of the words because again, no logic. I really wish I could find out just how bad those Latin translations were just so I can see the beginning of the English language in its crazy glory because seriously, it has got to be the ultimate form of how absolutely broken English is, & questions how we even speak it in the 1st place.

[@michaelhall736]

I've interacted with a few seiyuu (Japanese voice actors) and they're humble, nice, and overall pleasant people. They're fun to talk to even if you don't speak the same language. And Japan does not put up with voice actors who act like this. If they acted like Jamie Marchi, Monica Rial, or Amanda Winn Lee they would be fired and possibly blacklisted in an instant, in fact they have. The reason Kaoru from Yakuza never appeared in the series is because her VA was being mean to her fellow VAs and fans. And if I had my own dubbing company and I saw my employees acting like this to my fans, I would make sure they never have another job in voice acting again. And the ones I mentioned, Jamie, Monica, or AWL would not be welcome.

[@jakjsjs]

ohhhhh so that's why it never appeared again I didn't know thanks for the information friend I always had that question

[@ghoulbuster1]

You're right, we have to get these lunatics fired and on the streets, maybe that will humble them to be more respectful.

[@michaelhall736]

@@ghoulbuster1 Definitely. Also, the Japanese studios need to start putting a tighter leash on these VAs and companies.

[@michaelclifton9498]

I wish it was like that here, it feels like treating your customers like crap has become a trend

[@urphakeandgey6308]

I don't mind VAs being genuine with their fans, but there are obviously limits. I feel like Japan has the inverse problem. Everyone in entertainment is plastic and fake. It's all business. Meanwhile in the US, they're so overly genuine they forget to STFU and do their job.

[@SuperLlama42]

I used to love Ghost Stories until Funi tried to turn every goddamn dub into Ghost Stories 2.

[@luminous3558]

Ghost stories at least tries to be funny, modern localization is just censorship and/or straight up propaganda.

[@Kaimax61]

Same, I used to love Ghost Stories, until everyone said its the BEST DUB. They changed the script, that's what made it good.... not the dubbing itself.

[@nickelakon5369]

@@Kaimax61 the best dub is Fooly Cooly's Hands down.

[@sirapple589]

Nick Elakon Cowboy Bebop? Baccano?

[@nickelakon5369]

@@sirapple589 those are both pretty much on the same level I would say, along with Black lagoon.

[@Salwarehouse]

"Not as a matter of censorship" "due to what is appropriate and not appropriate for English audiences" Distinction without a difference.

[@budx9830]

Well said.

[@ghoulbuster1]

This is worse than censorship, it's direct manipulation of the source material to spread an agenda that is destroying our culture.

[@QuartzChrysalis]

This is not a "death camp" comrade, it is a gulag.

[@SuperWHIIITE]

They're not loot boxes! They're surpriiiiiissee mechaniiiics! 🌈

[@kenpanderz672]

@@SuperWHIIITE some people only call it "censorship" when the government does it. but if its a platform choosing what does or does not show up on it, regardless of the law, id still call it censorship, since the word still works to describe such an act. the word can be used outside of a legal context, and should be used outside of that context where appropriate, even with something as silly as replacing gun with a spring-loaded mallet.

[@Atmux]

Bro called this out 2 years ago, and only now are people starting to wake up. Good shit.

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

14:55 "You can usually just drop them without *loosing* much meaning" It's depressing when the professional writers would fail a sixth grade test in their native language.

[@arempy5836]

The Prison School one is my favorite. It was ham-fisted then but it becomes less comprehensible to a general audience every year. It's referencing a stupid hashtag from, like, 2014-2017 that even people who were a part of it hardly think about. It's like carbon dating, it's the clear thumbprint of a mid 10s twitter addict.

[@luminous3558]

Exactly this. Recently played a jrpg and heard a character say stuff like cringe which just made me die inside a little. People will be so confused in a few years.

[@inendlesspain4724]

@@luminous3558 "That was truly cringeworthy"

[@roadent217]

@@inendlesspain4724 "That was truly Locked. Not very Keyed of them at all."

[@belstar1128]

#myvapidfad™

[@petergriscom3431]

Reminds me of playing Animal Crossing: Wild World back in 2007 and wondering, "I get that leetspeak is popular right now, but who the hell still says 'w00t'?"

[@kiencancap]

Final verdict: go back to watching fansubs with essay-lenght single frame explanations

[@ROFLKNIEFGOESSLIEC]

This, but unironically.

[@ExtremeWreck]

Other verdict: The English language in general is just a mess.

[@LckD008]

@@ExtremeWreck damn bro why do you hate English so much

[@bluemark25]

But where can I find those?

[@marlonmontelhiggins8570]

@@ExtremeWreck - I agree wholeheartedly.

[@WraxTV]

Remember when Honoka saying "Awesome sauce" in the Love Live dub was considered the most cringe worthy dub "localization" actually aimed at anime fans we had to suffer through? Ah, the good old days.

[@MemeGene6969]

youtube recomended me this video after all this time. couldnt be a better time. Localizers learn to flip burgers.

[@pacosith]

Funny how relevant this is now. ❤😂

[@GG-kl8gw]

""Localization"" is just "I fixed ur art" for writing (though they do touch on art many times): it's taking something that's not yours, changing it, claiming it as yours in at least a sense and shitting on the original creators. Hell, in fact it's worse. In a way I understand why they do this and think it's ok, after all, if you don't follow this drama or if you in general are alien to these processes, you'd think all localization is, for lack of a better word, accurate, because it IS the product. When people with ego problems do "art fixes" they don't get to claim it's the product, it's something personal they do, meanwhile in localization this is what is shown to the customers.

[@skeletonwar4445]

Well, Localization *can* absolutely be a good thing. Just take a look at Xenoblade Chronicles 2. It has godly localization. As example, one character is called "Yoshitsune" in the original. In Japanese, that name is very strongly tied to a heroic/noble but tragic life. If they called him Yoshitsune in the English version, that subtext wouldn't be there. Because we don't have anything to go off when we hear "Yoshitsune." That's just some Japanese name. In the English version, his name is "Akhos." The name was chosen because in its spelling and general vibe, it invokes the same feeling of pathos as other names from famous Greek epics, which often are tragedies. It's in one line with Herakles, Patroklus, Akhilleus, etc. Another character example is the giant white tiger, "Byakko" named after the divine white tiger of the chinese constellations. (Phoenix, Tiger, Turtle, Dragon) We don't have any English names that directly associate to "protective white tiger" so his name was changed to "Dromarch", inspired by Dormarch/Dormarth, a white hound-like beast that protects/assists humans during hunts in Welsh mythology. Another example is the theme of Christian imagery, with the strongest beings in existence being called the "Chalice of God" in Japanese. The English version calls them "Aegis." It's a different name, but in the same spirit. That's because religious terms that can seem quite exotic/mythical in Japan will come across very differently in the West. Japanese pretty much look at western religions the way Westerners look at Greek mythology. For similar reasons, the names of almost all of the titans (living continents, basically) were changed. Their Japanese names are Latin words that relate to the deadly sins and the heavenly virtues. (Avaritia, Ira, Gula, Acēdia, Superbia, Liberalitas, Temperantia, Invidia) Those names were chosen because of the exotic, mystical nature. And while sure, the Latin language still has a sort of exotic mysterious vibe to it for westerners as well, it's not as strong as for the Japanese. What they did for the English names is, take a word, sometimes from a language that isn't English, that is related to the meaning of the original Japanese name and changing it slightly to make it a viable name. As examples: The titan Gula (=gluttony) is called Gormott, from the French "gourmand." The titan Invidia (=envy) is called Uraya, from the Japanese "うらやましい, urayamashī" meaning envious. The titan Superbia (=pride) is called Mor Ardain, from the Scottish-Gaelic "mór-àrdan" meaning pride. The titan Acēdia (=sloth) is called Indol, from the English "indolence" which is a synonym for sloth. tl;dr Localization can be neato burrito, when done correctly and not used as a tool to try and censor the original vision, instead used as a tool to bring the original vision closer to reality in different cultures.

[@heehooobsessor7907]

Sometimes a Localization can be a good thing. Take Kefka for example, before Final Fantasy VI (3 when it came here on the SNES) got localized here, Kefka was considered to be one of the worst villains in the series due to being a straw nihlist who kept winning through dumb luck. When it got localized here,his character got retouched and basically turned from a bland unfunny nihlist into what is basically the Final Fantasy version of the Joker, and it elevated him to becoming one of the most memorable Final Fantasy villains of all time. It was so well recieved that this later became his official characterization for later instalments involving him.

[@toothfairy10133]

it makes sense for puns, idioms and mythological/(some) cultural references but inserting random memes or political humour is gonna mess it up.

[@seg162]

@@skeletonwar4445 How is what you described _not_ censoring the original vision? It's certainly _obfuscating_ the original vision, and it does so while making very strange assumptions like that the player wouldn't be in tune with Japanese mythology but would necessarily be more in tune with Greek mythology. What's to say that an American player wouldn't find Greek and Japanese mythologies equally unfamiliar? Even your comparison of how the Japanese view western religions versus how we view Greek mythology is bad-- Christians do exist in Japan (they're about 2% of the population, and one of its national landmarks is an Orthodox church), whereas nobody practices Greek paganism anymore.

[@seg162]

@@heehooobsessor7907 That's not localization being a good thing-- stories are allowed to be bad. Supposing your conclusion is correct, that doesn't retroactively justify rewriting characters behind the back of the original writers.

[@luminous3558]

I have so much respect for whoever translated the 2000-2005 era of anime for us german kids watching TV back then. Incredibly faithful adaptations to the point of even covering all the vocal tracks in german to preserve the general feeling they were meant to convey. German digimon is pretty much the same as the japanese version, while american digimon is a joke. Just goes to show what happens when you get actual professionals that respect the original work to do a localization.

[@roadent217]

Yeah, German translators are amazing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmnboId4j9etodE

[@ROFLKNIEFGOESSLIEC]

Most of these "translators" at American localization companies aren't even certified. IIRC there's one woman at funimation who *might* (can't find any conclusive information) be certified by the ATA. Her job listing is that she oversees the quality of the "translations" they do at funimation. If it IS true that she is certified by the ATA it makes them a JOKE for even certifying her, since the "translations" they put out have been shown to be terrible in this video, among countless examples outside of it too. A joke for certifying someone who either intentionally allows blatantly incorrect dialogue in the final product, or just isn't actually doing their job. Looking at her twitter feed it seems she aligns with the politics they keep shoehorning into these series, so I'm inclined to believe it's the former.

[@weirdofromhalo]

Actually, American Digimon is great. The theme song isn't, but the dub is.

[@luminous3558]

@@weirdofromhalo If you like having jokes thrown in every 30 seconds to completely ruin any serious mood. American digimon is a mess.

[@King_Luigi]

@@weirdofromhalo "Why do you get the Pizza, while I get the crust?!"

[@JowoeBunchaNumbers]

Translators literally just doing their job: Ultra Nightmare Difficulty

[@comyuse9103]

i heard the moshuko tensei translators got their work changed without them even knowing about it till it came out, at least one was complaining that he'd start adding in a clause to his contracts that prevented tampering like that (idk how serious he was). i really want to buy the novels to support the series, but at the same time i really don't want to support seven seas's bullshit. its a very annoying issue, if we don't buy after they fix it we are a lost cause and they won't do it properly in the future, but if we buy it now they might revert anyway.

[@jackster10101]

The show after the first president school clip I kind of like that one because I think it’s kind of funny but I do understand that people don’t like it but I’d say it just is easier to watch the sub Dragonball is literally the only show at the I’d never watch the original Japanese version simply because when Goku grows up they don’t give him a voice that makes him sound like A grown adult he still sounds like a kid a couple of clips it seems to sound fine but that’s why the dub is better because they still all used girl to her for kid Goku but changed it to fit him being in adult no big deal to me but it’s just my personal opinion even Pokémon I’d probably still prefer the, The English version but that’s because I grew up knowing the English version of master my wife but I do appreciate it a lot more of the stuff they didn’t really understand that they did it back when I was a kid I can’t really think twice that they used a bow and do all that stuff and the whole calling on your Eyelid thing

[@jackster10101]

I will submit I love the Pokémon dub I did not grow up with the original I grew up with her diamond and pearl her and I don’t remember if I grew up with advanced but I do love the jelly doughnut thing I’d like to watch it in its original Japanese form but man I love it and I do feel that learning more 4kids didn’t do anything currently wrong they just kind of made the shows that they localise shit sometimes they were fine but everyone can agree but they sucked most of the time but there is a charm to it and I love it yeah but I feel weird watching them anyways because sometimes when sons to campy i can’t watch it but I cannot deny how great it works with Pokémon go Pokémon was pretty child friendly it’s just that sometimes they would have a little bit of adult jokes snuck in there , ps hope this makes it easier to read

[@IceHibiscus]

@@comyuse9103 Unfortunately, translation, linguistic interpretation, and localization of published works are 3 different layers. And, the more layers you have to any process, the more that company values and objectives can interfere with the final product. To be honest, the golden era of J-media localization in North America was back in the early to mid 00s. I may have had gripes with, say, ADV Films, but man I will never complain about that era ever again. I just wish that light novels were more mainstream back then.

[@sonofthed]

To quote RazörFist: "Hollywood hates your guts. It's perfectly fine to hate them back." Just replace Hollywood with english translations and it fits very well.

[@legendarymarston9174]

Wow a Razorfist fan? Nice

[@doomdude3034]

Just a reminder to support independent translators, they haven't forced their politics down your throat since the very beginning.

[@legendarymarston9174]

@@doomdude3034 How do I support them?

[@doomdude3034]

@@legendarymarston9174 A lot of manga and novels are translated independently but not too many anime these days unfortunately. Though, if a series is translated badly i'm sure independent ones would probably do it themselves. So really, just take a look for your favorite series' and usually the translators have ways to donate.

[@Dragonage2ftw]

Razorfist is a hipster and a bigot.

[@inanimatesum4945]

I don't even know what happened over the years. Funi used to be one of the few companies that would even add footnotes and sidenotes that translate context or explain the situation so people would understand. Especially with some animes that don't even do that themselves.

[@saminates2002]

Truuue! I remember they used to do that

[@Shiirow]

anime doesnt have to explain themselves, their intended audience is already in on the joke.

[@inanimatesum4945]

@@Shiirow this is obviously talking about the translations done specifically for non-Japanese speakers who don't know Japanese puns or honorifics.

[@neildbutner2472]

And this is why I want to learn Japanese. Not to "be more of a weeb" but because censorship is a clear pain in the ass

[@D-Havoc]

That Netflix Saint Seiya just baffles me why fundamentally change a classic and beloved series so drastically. They straight up "Americanize" it for the worst.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

The Netflix Saint Seiya is definitely crude. Also, the dub is pretty crappy because the localisers behind it aren’t fully qualified enough to respect Japanese culture. Even when I was a child, I’ve seen the far more hilarious Canadian English dub of the original on DVD and watched it occasionally.

[@Naglfar94]

not only did they destroy saint seiya and Americanized it and changed Shun to a girl for stupid pointless pandering to sjw types and to fill an agenda but it is hilariously bad that in the Saint Seiya netflix that they seem to know the characters very poorly from the source material and power scaling is just whack as heck. Why are the saints fighting with the military and against guns and helicopters? ha! these dudes can punch 85 times in a second even early in the series, break the sound barrier in speed and have insane stamina and durability with 7th sense users and golden saints being able to move at the speed of freakin light and fight for 1000 day showdowns and other crazy crap the hell are they doing squaring off against army dudes? why are guns a threat when they can literally tank these bullets they'd just bounce right off their bodies lmao I dunno what it is but that is not saint seiya that is for sure.

[@jbark678]

I ignored the Nexflix series and watched the original, since I'd never seen it before.

[@ThunderClapClide]

The last half of this video can be summarized as "rules for thee, but not for me." I am getting sick of Twitter Verified Idiots constantly putting their foots in their mouths just so they can "own the weebs." They are crazy hypocritical, and it drives me up a wall.

[@CurtyTails]

They only created the standards the plebs should be following-who says they have the follow the rules they create? Yup it really is sad. It wouldn’t be so bad if these fuckers didn’t have such venomous contempt for the audience they are making shows for. No. Fucking. Respect. Which is opposite to the Japanese mindset.

[@ThunderClapClide]

@@CurtyTails Agreed.

[@ThunderClapClide]

@@mariokarter13 I’d actually offer the writer more leeway, since they are the writer, not the TRANSLATOR. You’re job as a translator is not to insert yourself into the work, but to relay the work of another.

[@titsbitchmcgee7502]

It's the same story with American comics

[@ThunderClapClide]

@@titsbitchmcgee7502 No wonder they're tanking.

[@Magic.God.Othinus]

The only thing we can really do is promote fans to start leaning Japanese.

[@belstar1128]

はい

[@lucasljs1545]

Yeah, literally the best thing we can do. Japanese is a full phonetic language, it is really easy to learn how to talk and write, it is not crap like English when the same fucking syllable have different sounds everywhere. It's a poor created language just meant for Global Language, that's why the English Kabbal Elite created this crap.

[@ghoulbuster1]

The chad way.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@lucasljs1545 Actually, English was a jumbled attempt at translating multiple languages into Latin, thus creating a language that's outright impossible to master more than 0.000000003% of it. It's probably the HARDEST language to ever learn in human history. I bet it's more possible to build a rocket ship that can go 800000000000000000000000000000000 miles per hour with Coco-Cola cans than be able to master at least 4% of the English language.

[@BitchChill]

I'm not learning an entire language just to watch a piece of entertainment

[@faimist8993]

These translators are my main motivation to learn Japanese so I don’t have to suffer from their bad translation, like I am here for the author works and not your take of the author’s works

[@jaidora]

This aged like wine, almost depressing that only 2 years went by since this was posted and only now is it being recommended to me when localizers threw their hats into the translation and A.I. usage debate. It took the possibility of people losing their jobs to what they were afraid of to finally expose how corrupt localization is in the west.

[@inendlesspain4724]

I really needed to watch this. I'm glad I'm not alone in this, that there's people with common sense out there who just want to enjoy media without having it ruined by people with pretenses of reforming society by censoring media and injeting their views and beliefs into them and also inciting persecution and harassment on anybody who disagrees with these changes by straight up treating them like criminals because they can't separate fiction from reality. Lately I've been feeling like these people have been taking over and nobody could stop them.

[@alogarfen9]

I think that a Europe based translation company will be able to fix it as it will be free from American sjw bullshit.

[@yangyin8492]

@@alogarfen9 LOL you think Europe isn't full of SJWs? LMAO that's one of the funniest things I've seen this week. That's a good one.

[@deathstrike]

The worst form of irony is the irony that "claims" to cater to Western audiences, yet the audience they cater to, doesn't even watch anime and condemns it. Ironic isn't it?

[@GodOfOrphans]

Problem is really just the fact that many of the original creators are unaware of the malicious editorialization, they tend to focus on their domestic market and then there's the obvious linguistic and cultural barrier so for the longest time this crap would fly under their radars, but people are noticing, it's already been brought to the attention of of multiple and growing numbers of creators as well as the Japanese government so the tide is decisively turning, the antibodies have finally identified the virus it's just a matter of how long it will take to purge and how much damage it will do on its way out, but it will be purged make no mistake!

[@Klonoahedgehog]

Because whoever tries to fight against this kind of thing either gets silenced on social media, gets cancelled or just killed outright, depending on how important said person is.

[@ScottE-2]

It pisses me off that Funimation and I think Crunchyroll to some extent have the license to dub/sub certain anime and just sit on it. I'll never forgive Funi for attempting to stop the share of Interspecies Reviewers, one of the most influential anime that was nearly trapped in Japan if not for the high seas and dedicated fan-subbers that even shared the uncensored versions. I still don't get why they censor so much these days...

[@Klonoahedgehog]

They censor because anime and weeb culture inherently goes against their beliefs, so they are trying to change anime so they can change weebs to fit into said beliefs.

[@ScottE-2]

@@Klonoahedgehog bup-bup-bup bu- not censoring, "localizing". And no, they're not here to change anyone. Just trying to remind us just how low of an entry point it is to be able to properly translate words from one to another. I wouldn't call it weeb culture as it is just the culture of animation and comics. All at the dismay of fans who just want to hear this shit in English that is accurate or entertaining enough to still enjoy. Funimation and Crunchyroll translators took that away with various dubs and subs.

[@lunatic0verlord10]

Because they have a death wish, maybe? Maybe someone in there wants to be brutally mauled to death? Either way, I say we should give that someone what they want.

[@ikhwaneivan4303]

interspecies reviewer should be given to sentai imho

[@jamesbenson2090]

Social media is slowly destroying everything, yet Some of us are forced to use it

[@PedoBearNomsLoli]

Well not necessarily forced. You can always choose to opt out, at your own detriment that is. But yeah it's becoming an integral part of our culture, like how owning/driving your own car is pretty much mandatory in the US.

[@littlekitsune1]

Social media was a mistake and I refuse to use it.

[@USAltefore]

Forced as in, using social media being a requirement for work or school? Or as in, it's the only method of communication that your peers use?

[@jamesbenson2090]

​@@USAltefore Getting my work out there. Everyone harps on about artists, aspiring or otherwise, are made to have social media accounts I guess.

[@USAltefore]

@@jamesbenson2090 That makes sense. I've heard similar things for other kinds of work.

[@igorgiuseppe1862]

actually, lucoa issue is that she is trying to fit into society but she dont have an common sense for what humans think about a lot of issues. its out of character for her to criticize society, she dont even understand the society as is, how the hell she would have heard about patriarch or things like that?

[@sasaki999pro]

Definitely still a *YIKES* character though, even if she doesn't realize what shes doing. But if South Park taught me anything, its that she can get away with it if shes hot enough. _"Nice."_

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

@@sasaki999pro I agree with both comments. Lucoa is disgusting for molesting a child but she's also an extremely inexpierenced individual. She's new to the world and somehow has a harder time understanding and adjusting to her surrounding society. So yeah, I'll call her an idiot.

[@KraftLawrence1]

Imagine localizers trying to call out colonization while actively and aggressively participating in it. LUL

[@King_Luigi]

That's, what many refer to as, "projection".

[@rai_harn98]

I do not recall a single moment where 4Kids and their employees act holier than thou to their detractors, unlike Funi or Crunchy.

[@frogglen6350]

That's because their audience were babies. I get it though. You're ok with 4kids censorship because of a, well, nostalgia bias

[@factspeaker8518]

Didn't 4kids have anime characters sing the USA National Anthem? Seems Holier than Thou to me... Forcing Japanese characters to sing the anthem of a country that bombed Hiroshima

[@thelastgogeta]

They probably would if they had Twitter or social media, but I do think they were surprisingly minor besides when they influence other works (the manga, games etc).

[@comyuse9103]

@@frogglen6350 saying "these guys are better than these other guys" doesn't mean "these guys are perfectly fine and good"

[@michaelhall736]

@@frogglen6350 I'm still not okay with the censorship even if these have nostalgic value for me. As a kid I didn't even know these anime were heavily censored.

[@brisklloydavator]

the botw's "translation" is so bad that they removed the entirety of link's character all of the quest log text was written by link but they removed it

[@tophan5146]

Details?

[@IzzySarru]

Wait, what?

[@mercaius]

@@tophan5146 is joke

[@nickelakon5369]

@@tophan5146 as I recall, in BotW, alot of the text within the shiekah slate is written in first person. In english it's not.

[@tophan5146]

@@nickelakon5369 hmm, it makes sense for it to be in a first person.

[@WMan37]

One particular pet peeve of mine I hate about crunchyroll localization, unrelated to politics or anything like that, is how they translate a phrasing of "sister" from a young or innocent character to "sissy" which like, to me, doesn't even make sense in english since the word sissy has completely different meaning, it takes me out every time. They could just say "lil' sis" or 'big sis" but instead they choose a word with a lot of completely unrelated meaning. What I find to be really frustrating and unacceptable is that official releases sometimes feel like how bootleg movies used to feel, while fansubs on pirate websites feel like how official releases should feel, even down to the visual quality. Crunchyroll's bitrate streaming quality is trash even when I was paying for the sub fee, meanwhile torrent websites treat people like royalty. Something really needs to change, here. The roles should be reversed. That whole redo thing where they show the changes in language is exactly how I'd want to see official releases handle that stuff. I'd even take "All according to keikaku" tier hilarious bullshit if that's what it takes, because as funny as that is I at least _learned_ then that "plan" in english does translate to "keikaku" which I did not know before.

[@oali2478]

Are you sure that putting japanese words really is the better way, to me it feels like people don't realise that just because you know some word in japanese doesn't mean you actually have learned japanese language in any capacity, words that have direct translations still rarely work 1:1 even if they do directly translate, even if "keikaku" means plan in that context, that doesn't mean it would be the same usage in different contexts, as an example as an arabic speaker the prefix "ال" means "the" but its usage is different, as an example ذَهبتُ الى المخبز لكي أشتريَ أرغفةٍ من الخبزِ basically means "I went to the store to buy a piece of bread" but the word for bread خبز has the prefix ال attached to give الخبز "the bread" which doesn't make sense in english, basically in this sentence although you may know that ال means the, its not applicable in the same way the English word the is. The point is anime subtitles that don't need you to understand how japanese language is applied may not be an effective way to learn Japanese. Another thing that I think is kind of weird is to expect that the audience which speaks one language to know the other, like with honorifics and the example he gave about "watashi" he says that leaving them in does not affect those who do not understand them, but when I saw the "watashi" example I was honestly confused, like I may now know that it is a more noble way for saying I, but I didn't know that then, and I was distracted by it when I saw it, just because people are in on an aspect of the language being translated doesn't mean others won't be left out.

[@WMan37]

@@oali2478 You pick it up after a while of watching various anime. For example, "Ore-wa" is more masculine, while "watashi-wa" is more formal. Nobody taught me this, I just saw what kind of characters used each form of referring to themselves in various anime, and there was also a scene in "Your Name" where one of the main character's friends is correcting them on the right one to use since it was a girl in a dude's body and they weren't used to saying the specific phrase for that which kinda solidified that knowledge. You're right in that It's not a substitute for a legitimate language class by any stretch of the imagination, but if you hear a language spoken with subtitles accompanying them enough, you notice patterns and can wing it through a language kinda like how some people say "ain't" instead of "isn't", which I heard is kinda how people from Osaka speak anyway, where their equivalent of the language in english would be like a southern accent in america. If nothing else, if there was consistently this approach to subbing where it puts a translator note or a smaller word there, it would begin to make a lot of sense as time goes on and would virtually eliminate significant levels of mistranslation bullshit that happens. And nobody will be "left out", the whole sentence is still being translated to english as it normally would be in a sub you were watching without these little side notes, because I'm asking for the addition of context not the subtraction of it, after all. Translator Notes used to be common in fansubs and provided the exact kind of insight in real time that these twitter users complain about mulling over. You get a justification and context in real time, I don't see how this is particularly a bad thing outside of adding more text onto a screen, but there's ways to optimize that by making it smaller.

[@oali2478]

@@WMan37 yeah I see what you're saying but there is another reason official subs may be different, some of the things fansubs do would be considered unprofessional by translators, like if you ever see how a professional interpreter/translator handles things it would be considered unprofessional to leave words of the language being translated*, the people doing subs officially are probably looking to get more into translating more serious documents (like diplomatically or in business) and if they look at previous work it may reflect badly on their professionalism, not necessarily saying it's right, just that that might be a reason why. * in the text

[@WMan37]

@@oali2478 I understand the perspective you're coming from in this comment, however I'm really not sure an appeal to "professionalism" is the right path here, considering how "industry professionals" act on twitter and through the rampant mistranslation of official works for the sake of personal ventures, be they politically motivated or otherwise. I mean, I knew about most of the incidents in this very video before watching it, if that's what "professionalism" is, and that redo sub that monroe showed is what "unprofessionalism" is like, then I'll take unprofessional any day. Ultimately, what I would like is to be able to enjoy a series in the fullest context available to me, within reason of course, and I sincerely, earnestly, do not care if there's a little bit of translator notes or additional real time contextualization to sentences along the way, as long as we never get a prison school or dragon maid english dub situation ever again. There are always exceptions of course. For example: Black Lagoon's english dub is widely (at least as far as I know from my anecdotal experience) considered to be actually better than the subbed version, _because_ it doesn't do direct translation, but the general intent and mood behind the dialogue is retained. That's localization I can get behind. I can buy that jaded mercenary types wouldn't be too formal but instead foul mouthed assholes, and "Everyone is a jaded asshole in Black Lagoon" sounds like it fits nicely into the setting so there's no cardinal sin of translation committed by leaning into that, at least in my opinion. tl;dr less personal agendas, more original intent. I don't care how it's achieved, and I am not against TL notes or additional japanese wording to recontextualize the same word spoken in different ways if the plot calls for it.

[@EternaMidnight]

@@oali2478 Did you even watch the video about how unprofessional these official translators are?

[@SXR123_YT]

I'm sure everyone who watched anime before it started getting popular and main stream; who either felt like outcasts or simply got into it before any of this modern nonsense started happening are really happy at the fact that any real criticism they have towards translators, localizers and voice actors are going to be completely ignored. Not just because the people in charge of these things don't care, but because they actively hate the community they're apart of. The medium a lot of people grew up loving and wanting other people to see what they see, actively hates them and doesn't want anything to do with them. I can't imagine how heartbreaking that must be for some people. When you mentioned the VA shaming the artist for sharing something they did I just felt really disappointed. I know there's going to be a lot of things in this world I don't like, projects I work on that I'm not too thrilled to be on but at the end of the day I want to prioritize the fans over my own self-satisfaction. If someone thoroughly enjoyed something I had a hand in making and wants to share that with me, who am I to shit on their parade? Also, if there's a fan who has a problem with something I worked on and takes the time to write out a detailed list of their opinions, the least I can do is see what they have to say. Something they suggest could actually be really helpful and if I just ignore it, it just goes to show that I'm not someone who's willing to listen to other ideas. After all, without the fans supporting the product, I'd be out of the job.

[@greenknightfenrir]

"Out of nowhere, this 2 years old video became very relevant. Why could that be?" 🤔

[@di5963]

14:56 "lost in translation" is literally something that is and always has been something bad and something to avoid at all cost, the phrase exists to explain why it might be better to read/watch the original source or why a plothole exists in a translation it doesn't exist to excuse translators that take out words that they don't know how to translate the whole situation is just really bad, especially the ones that put unnecessary political statements in places where they don't belong, it also feels weird to me how many of the translators seem to do it specifically because they know it will piss off the majority of the fandom, most of them act the same as the tumblr refugees on twitter, why are these the people chosen for the job? and why the companies do nothing after seeing them make one after another unfaithful translation

[@luminous3558]

Because those 2 companies have snuck into the anime community very early on and now hold the market hostage. Crunchyroll started as a pirate site that went "legit" when it became profitable. Almost all the people working in the anime industry today are just there because they are A friends with someone or B were there at the start. Its pretty much nepotism incarnate, they don't even have many opportunities for new people to enter the scene because they don't want to deal with cringe weebs. Those companies aren't built on merit, they were just there to grasp the opportunity when nobody else wanted it. Most of the people using their sites do it because they want to "support the industry", not because they deliver a good product. CR and Funi know this which is why they keep shaming everyone for pirating anime instead of actually trying to fix their defunct websites or making a decent product.

[@1685Violin]

Are you saying that there is no such thing as "lost in translation"? Ever heard the Italian saying "Traduttore, Traditore"? Meaning not just localization but any kind of translation in general, even in books.

[@di5963]

​@@1685Violin i'm saying that "lost in translation" is not an excuse to change or erase something from the translation and in general we should try to lose as little as possible through translating

[@luminous3558]

@@1685Violin There is but it generally doesn't prove much of a hurdle to someone operating in good faith. If something doesn't translate well you either leave it in and explain it or you preserve the tone of the scene while finding a fitting substitute. Later one requires creativity which is why current localization should probably stick with the former.

[@FriedGamer]

It's honestly baffling that Ranma 1/2 had a better dub in the late 90's than most things do today.

[@Sammysapphira]

Imagine if ranma 1/2 were dubbed in 2021 *shudders*

[@yunogasai1338]

@@Sammysapphira please no. It would be ruined.

[@Klonoahedgehog]

@@yunogasai1338 It would heavily be changed so Ranma himself focuses on her gender identidy. I dont know if that actually happens on the show, i never watched it.

[@yunogasai1338]

@@Klonoahedgehog It doesn't really happen. Something close to it does when ranma finds he can't transform back during an episode. That's about it. Otherwise it's a goofy comedy anime through and through.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

@@Klonoahedgehog iirc Ranama is initially distressed by not being able to change back into a man until he figures out how it works. He sort ot gets used to his body changing all the time that his female form just becomes part of who he is and his personality stays essentially the same either way.

[@deadaccount2968]

One thing I'd like to add is that Marchi is not a translator. She's a script writer.

[@deadaccount2968]

@@MistaBrandoVA I don’t know enough to say if she’s the root or just a symptom. She isn’t only one that does it, nor was she the first.

[@lucasljs1545]

@@deadaccount2968 she is just a piece of trash lying garbage.

[@diligentone-six2688]

She's an Asshole. Jumped the bandwagon that Accused a fellow Voice Actor of Sexual Harassment.

[@deadaccount2968]

@@lucasljs1545 Opinions *about* Marchi are irrelevant to her being a script writer and her not being the first to act the way she does.

[@deadaccount2968]

@@diligentone-six2688 Correct, but irrelevant.

[@spazerdazer8421]

I don't watch Higurashi anime I only ever read the VN but it is the love of my life and I fare about Ryukishi's writing so heavily. I came for the Satoko and was wondering what they could have possibly done wrong. Needless to say I am disgusted with that change and want the localizer to scratch their neck until they bleed out and die. Nii-nii is not a toddlerism lisp nor born from a verbal tic or anything and it just shows that this is someone that doesn't fully understand the work she is given. It's a cute nickname that reflects her more cutesy feminine side that she keeps under wraps of her usual bratty nature which is just a front she puts on to be strong *for* her Nii Nii that she misses so dearly every single day. Nii Nii is a special word that reflects loving happy Satoko that was something she only truly experienced with her brother not just a mispronunciation that she gets embarrassed over. She chose to call Satoshi nii nii as a personal term of endearment and then it's just when she cooks for Keiichi and it reminds her of what life used to be like when her brother was around she reverts back to her cute nick name for him which is the True Satoko that she hides instead of the "mature" normal term for big brother. Big Brudder is just stupid sounding and not natural in English, you should just accept it as a Japanese thing with a quick note to explain the nick name and preserve the original intent. Nii nii is a special term that she only calls Satoshi in private and when she wants to call Keiichi that it's just the biggest heartwrenching moment that serves so well later on and doing big brudder literally kills everything about Tatarigoroshi Minagoroshi and Satoko's whole character it takes away so much and is incredibly distracting and it just pisses me off to see a translator take such a massive dump over her character because of a simple personal bias. It's not like she was saying onii-shan or something like that, it was nii nii a nick name born from the word and the reader/viewer isn't going to understand this nuance with brudder and the new new stuff is just this is infuriating

[@Miyakolover]

What I hate the most is there are people who just worship localizers just because "OMG thEiR wOrk is fUnnY"...they just just don't care about artistic integrity and they enable these localizers into continuing doing their terrible job...it's a shit show that has an audience.

[@daskampffredchen]

Today Western Media is all about comedy. It is where drama goes to die

[@rwall514]

I think people are pretending we're still in the days of ADV, where the localizers loved anime, and (usually) communicated with the original artists when they wanted to screw with things. Even then, those were also the days of 'Invisible Guns and Sanji's Lollipop' 4Kids.

[@Miyakolover]

@@rwall514 It's annoying how there are people who worship these localizers while claiming to be "anime fans"...you can't be an anime fan if you enjoy having it butchered and changed for western sensibilities. And if you dare criticize it? They call you a "weeb" as if that was an argument.

[@rwall514]

@@Miyakolover That's definitely valid. We've got a bad crop of localizers currently in the industry, and if they don't destroy it for good, maybe those that come after will learn from their mistakes.

[@Miyakolover]

@@rwall514 I think the problem is that localizers think that their job is that of a "writer" and not a translater....and because of that they think their job is to "fix" or "Improve" the originl script...if this mentality doesn't dissipate any time soon, I have no hopes for the future.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

Some of these tweets drive me insane. "Just translated a Japanese work and managed to hamfist my own political agenda! #Girlboss UWU!" The fact that they're patting themselves on the back on Twitter, like what they did is so hip and clever, is discouraging to watch. It hasn't happened yet (and I doubt it will since it's been two years) but if Funimation gets the dubbing rights to Vinland Saga, I'm writing a restraining order. Edit: Just saw the Xander Mobus tweets, oh Xander my dude... Can't say I was ever that much of a fan of any of his roles but I definitely don't have a reason to start liking him much now.

[@williansnobre]

At this point if the honorifics have any bearing in the story they should just keep it, specially if the story takes place in Japan.

[@davidpoketrainer]

The problem is how would they know if the honorifics have bearing on the story if the story is ongoing?

[@williansnobre]

@@davidpoketrainer I would say that if it is too much of a puzzle to come up with an adapted version for it maybe it would be better to just keep it.

[@davidpoketrainer]

@@williansnobre Oh believe me that is my preference as well I am almost of the preference of if an honorific is said subtitle it as is. I was just commenting on the difficulty of asking for them only when the Story needs them.

[@zvolyx3247]

I... love this video. It hits so many important points on not just the "Crimes of Modern Localization", but also the western anime industry as a whole. I both learned a lot from this video, and was able to better organize many of the facts I only half-knew. I have known for a while that the industry has some (notably big) issues, but this helped put into perspective just how messed up the situation really is. Watching this has really tickled my "I'm learning Japanese to watch/translate anime" bone, which I've been ignoring for quite a while now. Thank you for this video, for really helping open my eyes to some of these bigger-picture issues, and for (hopefully) having helped push me to finally double-down on my studying so I can start trying to make even a little difference in this incredibly screwed-up situation. :) Also, because I never get to use this word, I'd like to say; I find the western anime industry's floccinaucinihilipilification towards us fans' actual feelings and opinions absolutely appalling.

[@UnisRapper]

THIS. i wish more people took this seriously. we need more faithful translations

[@USAltefore]

With enough dedication, any of us can train our weeb powers in order to be able to appreciate any source material. The gatekeepers aren't standing in the way of us enjoying the artistic and creative intent of the media we love. They're standing in the way of us enjoying it with the normies we love.

[@RED_Theory038]

the problem is getting products directly from the source like physical copies of games or dvd/blue rays of anime. Can get very expensive to import untainted product that will directly support the creators and leave the parasites in localization with nothing.

[@USAltefore]

@@RED_Theory038 Yeah. Business such as Play-Asia exist, but getting physical goods from Japan to other countries takes a considerable amount of time and money. I think items like BlueRay box sets are crazy expensive even in Japan. I'd love to create a streaming platform for RAW anime directly from Japan, but with fan-sub compatibility. Let the customer choose which group's subtitles to use. Too bad I lack the money, connections, and technical expertise necessary for such a venture.

[@GodzillasaurusJr]

@@USAltefore I don't mind paying Japan prices for Japan products too much, but I do mind paying 25% tax to my rubbish government once it arrives in Europe.

[@spiceforspice3461]

@@GodzillasaurusJr based and anti-taxation pilled

[@nightphenomena8581]

It started as a showcase of bad translations and it ended up as a reminder that the people closely involved in the western side of the anime industry deeply hate anime and anime fans and would rather use their positions to prop up their political hot takes instead of respecting the original work's artistic intent and the culture it originated from. 10/10 Thanks for the black pill Dimitry

[@dontKILLmyCAT]

Dont worry, the people in Japan also deeply hate anime and anime fans :)

[@nightphenomena8581]

@@dontKILLmyCAT No, they don't. Almost all japanese shows and games and the people behind them treat their fans with respect and are happy to please them. Perhaps some people outside the industry dislike otakus but that's true of everything everywhere. They don't have this hatred of the fanbase and want to spite them at every turn, like western hacks do.

[@dontKILLmyCAT]

@@nightphenomena8581 no, that’s wrong. Most artists in the medium, at least the best respected of them, dislike anime and anime fans because the people making anime are not artists seeking to create a new exciting experience, they’re trying to emulate an old style and make mediocre schlock anime instead of anything with artistic value

[@nightphenomena8581]

@@dontKILLmyCAT Literally who are these "best respected" and "most artists" in the medium? Christ, it is not some controversial statement to say "hey, most artists and industry people have respect for their fans and appreciate them. Maybe you should too". You don't get very far ahead in art by constantly shitting on the people who enjoy your art for daring to enjoy it, any sane person appreciates the people who enjoy their artistic works. And if you're shitting on the people who make and like anime for "emulating an old style and making mediocre schlock anime" then you're watching the wrong animes and don't pretend most things in art and media aren't EXACTLY like this. No medium EVER has 10/10 meaningful and unique art pieces coming out every day, and if you dislike anime this much I don't know what you're even doing here.

[@dontKILLmyCAT]

@@nightphenomena8581 sweet gatekeeping bro, keep it up. Literally Hayao Miyazaki, the most prolific name is anime to most westerners, has said on record multiple times how the industry has stagnated under otaku making anime instead of people with a passion for art or life. This isn’t me saying this, this is a person recognized for excellence in animation, writing, and is generally regarded as among the most influential names in animation. I think he knows a little more about this than you do, bro. Not to mention authors like Ishibumi, Takaya, Hisashi Suzuki, and Ishida have all been critical of the anime studios who adapted their works for being lifeless, uninspired, and generally of a low quality.

[@OuroborosChoked]

Hot take (that's actually stone cold to anyone who isn't a localizer): nicknames, relational terms (nii-nii, nii-chan, onii-sama, etc.), and honorifics should _absolutely_ be left intact in the subs. Why? You are viewing the work of another culture. It's not fucking kryptonite to learn how that culture communicates _and_ it gives better insight into the character dynamics than a thousand "big brudder"-type localizations ever could. If you have character A referring to character B as -san and character B referring to character A as -sama, that immediately tells you if not their relative social standings, but depending on the specifics of the characters, how they think of themselves and each other in relation to one another. There's so much more communicated in just those small bits that dubs will always be inferior, as will subs that don't include honorifics, nicknames, and relational terms as used. Hell, I'm learning Japanese so I don't even have to deal with this localization bullshit anymore. That's how bad it's gotten. EDIT: lmao you actually covered this in the video. I wrote this before I got to that point.

[@luminous3558]

Especially since most anime fans will inevitably pick up on certain terms and phrases as they consume more JP media. This is pretty much why people know when a translation is awful despite not actually speaking the language. Id rather people have the chance to easily pick up on -san -kun -sama -sensei than forcing them to sift through inconsistent translations that change with every scriptwriter. Worst part is when subs fail to convey a subtle wordplay like the chinchin example or the Ore to Watashi change. Those subs that dimitri showed were lowkey genius.

[@charginginprogresss]

This. I'm so annoyed at the subs in the last year. Listen, I hear the japanese audio, the girl called him senpai and he called her last name-san, don't fucking subtitle them calling each other by first name. I can hear it and I hate it.

[@bardofsnow]

Thanks Dimitri, for reminding me of all the hate I still have left for people who willfully censor media and then turn around say that it isn't censorship. I had almost forgotten about it since I don't really watch anime anymore and just read fan translations of manga.

[@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung]

We need more localisation studios OUTSIDE of the states. American humour and standards have dropped so hard they can't even handle their own older cartoons.

[@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung]

It should be noted that the subs use the same script as the dub; the only difference is the audio language. They've already translated the subs, they use the same script to dub it. The only way to get a 100% authentic experience is to learn Japanese.

[@NekoBoyOfficial]

I was getting depressed, but the ending does give me hope. We need to keep telling them we're not okay with these decisions and boycott when necessary. And the whole "it's not censorship" crap from them is gaslighting.

[@davidecolucci6260]

I'ts not censorship, in their own words THIS is cultural appropriation.

[@Hyuinn]

You reminded me why I should keep studying japanese...

[@ExtremeWreck]

I mean, heck, from what I can tell Japanese is an easier language to get into than English as Japanese is a consistent language that tells you what their culture can be like in some words, & there's a general flow to it that's always there to guide you. English on the other hand is an incomprehensible mess of inconsistency, differentiating pronounces in just about every turn just to trick you into thinking you know what the word means at that point, & just downright insanity. Doesn't help that the English language was the result of some of the absolute WORST translations to Latin ever in human history from WAYYYY back in the ol' days, or in simpler terms, it's a jumbled, broken mix of different languages that are otherwise almost completely different from each other, combined together into THE hardest language to ever learn, let alone MASTER. Seriously, if you'd think we've done some good coverage of English as of now... oh no no no, we're just at the very tippy top of the iceberg of this broken-beyond-repair language.

[@legendarymarston9174]

@@ExtremeWreck What about German for example?

[@kinryuten]

They didn't want Symphogear at first until they saw the rising niche popularity of the series.

[@deadaccount2968]

...Funi doesn't have the rights to Symphogear again, do they?

[@kinryuten]

@@deadaccount2968 Crunchyroll does, they waited on it until fan demand.

[@deadaccount2968]

@@kinryuten I knew that. You got me worried that GX onwards was going be released by Funi.

[@kinryuten]

@@deadaccount2968 No, I watched it all on Crunchyroll.

[@deadaccount2968]

@@kinryuten Same. You know that Discotek is putting home releases, yeah?

[@Garvant_]

9:36 "You see it was tricky as there was no direct translation to go off of but in the end with a little quick-wit ingenuity and elbow grease, we just decided to give her downs instead."

[@galeseiker3549]

What great timing to have this recommended. XD

[@eliteastrea]

Great video. I'm not some japanese purist. I don't mind localization when it makes sense. I hate it when it turns to comments on the political climate and memes. But twitter normies see us all as ultra incel purists 😭

[@yeetlol3537]

I agree

[@minceraftfornite4334]

Yep I don’t mind changing if it can’t match the animation as long as it doesn’t change the narrative or characters character

[@Alias_Anybody]

Do you know what my greatest concern is? That the social-distancing line won't actually age badly.

[@JJAB91]

What do you mean? It already has. The virus is still a problem of course but many places have since changed polices and tactics on how they combat it. In many places this line has ALREADY aged like milk. At least they went back and changed the line after backlash, its just sad that a company doing that tends to be the exception and not the rule.

[@D-Havoc]

It's just like the later chapters of The Promised Neverland. While it's not a localization, the inclusion of "Coronavirus" in a manga that otherwise takes place in an alternate reality, will forever date that series.

[@Alias_Anybody]

@@JJAB91 Bullsh*t. Isolation is the best way to limit the spread of any and all infectious diseases, and if anything we'll have more of those in the future. Now there's a word for that. I doubt it will go away.

[@JJAB91]

@@Alias_Anybody kzbin.info/www/bejne/qp2XpWOahs9gn7s

[@Alias_Anybody]

@@JJAB91 Luis Rossman is no doctor, epidemiologist or molecular biologist. Also, if the current pandemic is over is not even the point, there could very well be more during our life times if we keep acting stupid.

[@damiang888]

21:22 "the show was immediately sold to us on its diverse boardroom of strictly white women." dammit I almost spit my coffee there

[@henke37]

It seems like that was the only selling point they had to choose from. That's a bad thing.

[@night1952]

When i ask for an "accurate" translation i'm not asking for literal, i want the original message to come across, not some fan fiction the wannabe-writter translator decided would fit there. I miss those old fansub translator notes, they helped me understand the japanese language and some of its unstranslatable quirks.

[@zennvirus7980]

Exactly. If you can't translate it because it's a cultural thing, put a note. As a reader, I love when the translators actually do that. But that only really happens on a regular basis in fan translations.

[@tatsumitwi348]

Who DOESNT make fun of the "WE'RE COUSINS" jokes to this day?

[@TheMightyNovac]

The FLCL dub is so god damn good that even the original Japanese director prefers some of it over his own work, and that dub has a ton of americanizations for western readability. It's still universally praised though, because changing an obscure Japanese porn magazine to 'Hustler' and an old discontinued 80s era softdrink to 'Crystal Pepsi' is fine because those descriptions and contexts still totally apply to their westernized counterparts whilst also benefitting the western audience's understanding of the material. Funimation/Crunchyroll translations are so bad that direct comparisons like these aren't even possible nor necessary, they're so blatantly transformative of the original work to be completely disrespectful. But besides those larger changes, having high school girls call a classmate an 'SJW' or having a manager yell about how much he likes 'mysogyny' are absurd, and most laughably is that the only comparison that can be made between them is that the author of the translations dislikes both. It's petty, cheap, and shockingly selfish for what is a role saved for and celebrative of the work of entirely selfless people who choose to express the original intent in as much of the original spirit and tone as possible.

[@elijahbradley704]

I was hoping someone would bring up the FLCL dub here

[@theoffbeatninja610]

I long for the days in the future where adaptations and translations are faithful and the western part of the industry isn't so bitter towards and uncooperative with fans.

[@choux8372]

I can't believed they changed Shun! The fact that he was an androgynous male character with a kind disposition (and pretty face) was what made him my favorite.

[@RealCaptainAwesome]

You were way ahead of the curve on this story.

[@Rashyboy05]

I remember when CR'S Oregairu S3's subs was so godawful in a show about double meanings and subtext. Their subs felt like actual robot translations.

[@bravado2809]

When the Ex-Arm Logo suddenly appeared... I knew shit was about to go down.

[@Skullnaught]

Hoping that fansubs become more common if this keeps happening

[@SnickMonster]

To be fair, fan-made aren't exactly immune to this either. I'll edit this comment later with the name but I remember hearing about a show about a wolf and a goat with very obvious gay undertones and tries to make the goat talk about a female goat who appears very slightly to detract from the gayness despite it not actually being what he says. Anime: Arashi No Yoru Mi

[@dimsumboy22]

@@SnickMonster true, but mistakes on a fansub is more forgivable than a paid product from people being paid. and if i may be so bold, 98% of the time, Fansubs generally get the idea down better, and translate AND localize more faithfully to the source material, as they generally do care about the property, and it just isn't a job to them. the sad thing is that fansubs are dying, and whatever groups are out there, tend to be just crunchyroll rippers and they might just change a word or two.

[@kittykitty101001]

@@dimsumboy22 Go watch a video titled Official Sub vs Fansub. Fansubs overuse cursing and pointlessly explain jokes

[@kittykitty101001]

@@dimsumboy22 You only support fansubs because you're poor and can't recognize Japanese language

[@ninjagold9244]

@@kittykitty101001 official subs add pointless modern references and political jabs. Kick out the low IQ morons "translating" at the official companies

[@vla1ne]

Japanese honorifics tend to not translate well into direct english, and thanks to that, I am of the opinion that leaving them in is often, if not always, the best option. Nii-Nii, Onii-sama, aneki, senpai, -san, -sama, ect, they all have no way translation, so why not just leave them be? It not only takes _less_ effort, it conveys the tone and personality better than any possible translation could. Not to mention "big brudder" drove me up a damn wall the first time I read it too. "Direct" translations of honorifics butcher the character more often than not. Just leave it be, and everybody wins.

[@N12015]

I don't think they should be used period PRECISELY because of not being part of our lexicon, we don't use it. I understand why you might want to preserve the message, but we have to remember something: NOT EVERYONE IS A WEEB, in fact Anime is quite mainstream. In fact, oftentimes literal translation will miss the meaning so it's a good idea to change in such case. Localizer's job is to create the least amount of friction while dealing with vastly different linguistic norms, trying to answer the question "If they were speaking in (Insert language), what would they say?". Too faithful and you'll get an unnatural dialogue who will be difficult to digest outside a close circle, too free and you'll miss the plot for the audience who will just use dubs and the localizer even risks being sued due to adultery.

[@vla1ne]

@@N12015 thing is, anime is for anime fans, who are more often than not, weebs. On top of that, it adds as a layer of context to discussions that leaving them out simply does not replicate. Hearing any of he honorifics immediately gives you context into character relations that oftentimes can then be left at that. I get leaving it out for dubs, perfectly fine, but if we are talking subs, if anything is going to be there, it may as well be the original word, as we have no equivalents, and anyone reading subs will either already know the deal, or can simply read annotations to figure it out.

[@DoTtA1123]

"Removal of Culture" segment perfectly encapsulates the problem. Sure there are people who don't have that basic understanding of (in anime's case) japanese, but there are people that do, and depending on how niche the show is, the majority of people do. Yet localizers always seem to direct the subtitles to an experience of someone who has literally no clue about japanese, anime, common tropes, words or phrases. The solution to me is simple, you divide the dub for the more rigid localizing and cater it to the more causal viewers (who are more likely to seek out a dub anyways) and the subtitles are exactly like the fansubs you showed of redo of healer. (those subs were actually beautiful btw)

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

thank you for making such a good argument.

[@NoraNoita]

Yo at 33 minutes in, the part about shadowverse, have those 'translators' actually watched the oscars ever, like have they seen those actresses and their 'dresses', they are always trying to show the most amount of skin in 'those' areas as possible. What foolish hypocrites

[@inendlesspain4724]

It's not wrong when *_we_* do it.

[@shyguywearingtie5491]

Those are real women though, pixels need to be protected from the male gaze.

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@shyguywearingtie5491 That's true. How dare these gamers stare at the innocent pixels when there's real women they could be harassing right now?!

[@XcitaTheArceus]

You make me very happy with each upload.

[@DimitriMonroe]

You make me happy with every comment......

[@joshuataylor7443]

@@DimitriMonroe can you do a video on this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmW5ZKl7ocqHr6c

[@1685Violin]

@@joshuataylor7443 I'm not sure if that is necessary for Dimitri to respond to that since Necro XIII has already made response video to that titled _Anime For You and Me_ .

[@joshuataylor7443]

@@1685Violin I still want to know his thoughts on the video.

[@Agent_Cobalt]

This is one of those problems that you need to take by a case by case basis. Most of the time the person rewriting the script for the sake of the dub or sub is doing it with the best of intentions. Sometimes you get something like doctor stone who's dub script is more accurate to the source material than the sub. Its weird how varying in quality localization is. You can blame the individuals

[@KaagKagamine5]

As someone who's native language isn't English, in some cases I find it frustrating when translations in my language turn out to be based off the English translation. Yes, sometimes the localisation in English isn't that bad, but it still can be somehow harmful since they're mimicking the wrong source, spreading possible misunderstandings found in the English translations. I have so much respect for fanscanations/fansubs that when searching for new people often put things like "we need a Korean translator" it is true that this structure leaves them not delivering translation in time, but if being late means there will be a little more accuracy and respect for the original work, I prefer that.

[@miguelbat27]

The good thing about videos like this is that it gives us a better way to support our arguments and actually have sense in our words, not everyone is able to keep a sensible argument and use words well, and when they can't, they lose, even if they were right in the first place. I admire the people who have the talent to speak their minds at ease and do it reasonably and calmly, it's refreshing and inspiring. I have trouble keeping my points across and having my arguments stand up when discussing things with people, and that often makes me appear that my argument doesn't make sense and is weak, so therefore I'm wrong, it's really annoying and furstrating to deal with. But one thing that helps me is hearing someone talk about what I thought about said subject, to give me the words I was missing. Thank you for giving me and all people with the same issue the opportunity to speak their minds about this very serious topic about the medium we so love. Wish you the best, you gained a sub :D

[@genericweeb7300]

watching those Funimation dub clips again is physically painful...

[@Majinken]

This isn't even the worst of it. I'm surprised you didn't bring it up since it was recent but a translation of Beowulf was recently released that """modernises""" the poem and it is god awful. Not only does it have baffling use of slang it actively changes the themes of the story from loyalty to being about toxic masculinity. It actively advertises itself as a feminist translation and is being praised for it. This isn't just a problem in anime its seeping into othrr places too.

[@crimsonspirit3036]

What the fuck? Oh god, please tell me the attention that's receiving is short-lived. Otherwise, the flag isn't red, it's scarlet. Even if it sucks, when parasites in the education, entertainment and psyche fields try to push their anime views, they're in the minority and typically laughed out, in part because it's a precious medium for so many and constantly under attack. But something like Beowulf is more known yet less fiercely protected because less people need to be on guard to defend such a seemingly untouchable part of human history. If that "reinterpretation" starts being appreciated on any level, Epic of Gilgamesh could be next. And it'll move onto other narrative relics from there. Literal historical revisionism right under our noses.

[@DimitriMonroe]

Yea as I said in the video I wanted to focus on areas I'm more well researched in but I made sure to put attention on the folklore guy for this reason as it became clear this wasn't just a trend in anime/games. Anyway thank you bringing this to my attention, the fact this is effecting important hysterical works is a testament to the absurdity.

[@bfnvalley]

What the ever loving fuck? You don’t just... CHANGE Beowulf. It’s the oldest English story. It’s not just historical, it’s foundational. You can’t just change that to suit your modern political biases.

[@RaizerZ]

@@bfnvalley that goes to show just how dange the far left is. They alway say that reality has a leftist bias but what's really happening is they are changing reality to fit their bias.

[@dragon200ism]

That ending statement Is awesome. It really reminds me of shortfatotaku's response to games workshops. Warhammer isn't for everyone. It's for anyone who thinks they would enjoy warhammer.

[@lordilluminati5836]

gonna be honest, the fansub way of putting translator notes for stuff like "nii-nii" would be the right call

[@IvikNier]

>calling out cultural appropriation >culturally appropriate manga/animu's proper translation This era sjw are the worst hypocrites ever.

[@simonw.1223]

and when they are strong enough changing characters... the char starts with bri....

[@XShaneX19]

Like my gramps said "Normies are ready to learn what senpai means"

[@Xxandrew01]

It's amazing how much our hobbies are getting attacked. It's also amazing how English VA's of Anime truly hate Anime and it's fandom. Makes me question if they ever did. Especially the Funimation ones.

[@marocat4749]

I cant blame them hating some elements, through they shouldnt generalize, but they should be professional and try to get it and not hating the anim community, possibly be indifferent at worst. And they should try adapting good first.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

That why people hate New York dub voice actors.

[@ORLY911]

One of the big first defenses is "EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL" when these changes get made, that it was inevitable because of this "fact". When you include partisan politics and extremely time specific social lingo, it both scares people off and instantly dates this version of the dub. There's just no excuse for it, they keep doing it because they feel morally superior and look down on anime fans.

[@pakapata]

But everything is political tho....and what the politics of those translators says to me is that they have a really bad case of xenofobia/racism if they disregard the japanese media so much as it shows. I bet they wouldnt done that if it was an french media or some other european thing

[@s3studios597]

​@@pakapata See the Rings of Power, James Bond, Dr. Who, etc.

[@jeibermilano2745]

Be honest, it's not politics in general, it's just the left.

[@pakapata]

@@jeibermilano2745 nah, it is just xenofobia/racism. Also, the right are horrible xenofobic most of the time; remember how they use to talk abou anime before it went mainsteam ?

[@jeibermilano2745]

@@pakapata Mad weird, because most of mexicans are right wing, most asians are right wing, most eastern europeans are right wing and most real african americans (inmigrants) are right wing. Also, as someone who likes anime, i know what they say about it, and they're right. You know what leftists say about anime?

[@AnotherMarioFan]

29:08 What's even more interesting about the removal of the breast slider is that it wasn't meant to prevent the breasts from being too big, but rather to prevent them from being too small and making them resemble a "child".

[@MrKommienezuspadt]

One of the best videos on the topic, and full of tons of examples that are intentionally malicious.

[@CyriInfil]

I was today’s years old when I found out the shadow realm is just from 4Kids

[@Alias_Anybody]

People should admit that actually sounds WAY more badass than just dying.

[@marocat4749]

Yep it is. Them digging in lovecraftian horror dimensions will never be not great.

[@Argroh]

in my person headcannon, the "Shadow Realm" is those who invoke a shadow game, the loser effectively dies. such as this "Fixed" line in my head. "Once the buzzsaw slices your legs, you will die and when you do, your soul will be sent to the shadow realm!"

[@EternaMidnight]

I'm still in disbelief

[@paledrake]

This video is digitalized facts and truth. While I'm frustratingly aware of the video game side of miss-translation and censorship, I wasn't aware how bad it was in the anime industry. This video needs more exposure. I'd give you more than 1 like, but KZbin doesn't allow that. Off-topic: For some reason I can't find your Twitch channel. Did something happen? And not your Twitter either. I've got a bad feeling about this... Edit: I was looking in the wrong place, you seem to stream on KZbin and not Twitch. Although your Twitter seems to be gone, unless the description link is old or something. Okay nevermind, the other KZbin channel seems to be an archive of sorts. Still can't find you on Twitch. Found the Twitter, Twitch is still a mystery. AAAAAAND Twitter answered my Twitch question. That sucks, hope the Twitch channel gets recovered soon.

[@DimitriMonroe]

Sorry for late reply, but I'm sure you can guess why from your journey lol. Yea I legit got suspended an hour after this video dropped, theres been people mass reporting my accounts so there's a chance I might get it back but who knows with that website. The archive channel I will streaming on in the meantime. Anyway thank you, hoping the video gets around as well !

[@inendlesspain4724]

@@DimitriMonroe Mass reporting a video for not agreeing with it is so pathetic, but I'm not susprised coming from these kind of people. On the other hand, if you got them reacting like this you're probably doing something right. Keep up the good work Dimitri, this stuff is great.

[@spookyles7483]

Ik this is 10 months old and you probably won't see this but this really saved my ass as I couldn't find any examples for my essay as I chose the negative side of localisation and its effect on expressing over cultures

[@GodzillasaurusJr]

"And you know what; maybe there's a point in there - these changes are for *a* western audience, just a very specific western audience. But that's not you, it's not me, it's not the western fanbase as a whole. These people make it very clear that they hate the community." Well said!

[@AleT118]

"You were my Mr. Nice Guy, Anakin!""

[@TheDracolordian]

underrated comment

[@Syenthros]

And in 2023, Nintendo is *still* censoring Fire Emblem. Poor Fire Emblem, that series just can't be left alone.

[@TheNachmar]

I mean, c'mon, you understand, right? We couldn't show a hot girl we worried about gaining a minuscule amount of weight only to realize by the end it didn't matter and people will not change their opinion of her due to it! It's way better to have her be self conscious because she might have made a face and now everyone will forever hate her for it until she can fix that face, and then fixing it! Waaaaaaaaay better. No need to learn that people who know you like you for you, better to learn to keep your act and your fake faces up forever and ever..... Really shows what the localizers really think, huh?

[@Otome_chan311]

Nintendo is pushing this sorta shit in almost every single one of their games now. Pokemon, animal crossing, splatoon, pikmin, etc.

[@hiidenkiuas]

Fire emblem fans are truly oppressed because the localizers removed the romance option with a 10 year old child