The Cross City Dilemma

[@JordysRailVideos]

Just like you said at the end of the video, reopen platform 1 at Brighton Beach for the Laverton runs (non-peak) and use Sandringham for the Williamson services

[@Comeng17]

2:10 "more than likely" this has been confirmed multiple times. And the Werribee/Williamstown lines have been depicted in pink post MM1 before

[@jdillon8360]

Good video. Hopefully we do see an all-day, 10-minute service on the Sandringham line after the tunnel opens. 10-minute, all-day frequencies should really be the standard we aim for on all lines. That's the only way to get people to leave their car at home.

[@StrayaTrains]

Thanks!

[@lauriewhite8153]

I think brighton beach is a great solution. Not all Cross-City services go all the way to Werribee, so why can't MTM reopen the other platform at Brighton Beach??

[@Jordan-288]

If 2min is the time it takes to go from Hampton to Sandringham, then if trains pass at Hampton you would have a 6min turn-around at Sandringham. For example: 12:22- Hampton to Sandringham passes a 12:22 Hampton to Flinders Street, the 12:22 Sandringham arrives at Sandringham at 12:24, leaves at 12:30, and gets back to Hampton 10 min later for the 12:32 to Flinders Street. The 6min turn-around will be tighter than the previous 9 min turn-around, but I reckon Metro will see it as achievable. Worst case scenario they'll be a roster change to tag along with the 6min turn-around, so the driver of the train arriving at Sandringham doesn't drive the same train out, and drives the following service, so that drivers effectively have a 16min turn-around. I don't see a multi-million upgrade of Sandringham or Brighton Beach on the horizon tbh.

[@xtrapolis954m]

When we ran the 10 minute shuttles, the trains would leave SHM & HAM at the same time, giving 8 mins for the turnaround at SHM.

[@normandiebryant6989]

10 minute frequency was provided for years and years in the mid 90s, when Kennett promised it on the condition that Sandy trains didn't go through the loop. I can't see why it's difficult now.

[@SephStuff]

Yep. And if the service frequency is increasing, there’s no reason to assume the current operation of the same driver taking the same train back to the city.

[@StrayaTrains]

It would def keep things right. The main issue with lower idle time is catching up for timetable trains. If the train gets to Sandi two mins late, it just is not enough time. But maybe with timetable manipulation, it could be achieved!

[@PJRayment]

@@StrayaTrains You're right, and wrong. A ten-minute frequency is, on paper, entirely feasible, and has a couple of minutes spare for catching up from late running. But yes, operating a ten-minute frequency for hours on end (e.g. between the peaks) may not be a very reliable way to run things, _specially_ if half of them are running through to Laverton with it's single-line sections that don't allow much for catching up from late running. Unless, of course, you have drop-on drivers, which, after all, would not require any more drivers than if you had two platforms and longer standovers between trips.

[@kclassproductions]

It would be awesome to see Brighton Beach return to three platforms

[@xm9g]

Melbourne's railways have changed forever!

[@berenscott8999]

Honestly, it's a waste of taxpayer dollars. The Sunbury line is the worst form of pork barrelling. Nobody lives out that way and you know it. Massive empty areas with no residential. This Victorian government is building some of the most retarded stations as well, like Monash station. Think about this, where is Monash station? It's located in the middle of an office / industrial area. At the moment these businesses already haven't got enough parking, the entire street is a no parking situation. There is no residential in the area and a train station with no residents is absolutely dumb. Think about it, this makes the station a destination only station. That's dumb, all stations should have their own residential population to make them at least financially viable. But, let's move to Clayton, and the station is nowhere near the pre-existing station. That's dumb, and we could have built the skyrail a little bit further down the train line to bring them into connection. Where's the rest going? I bet all of these stations are poorly connected with current public transport, like Monash is literally down a road away from the main road. So stupid.

[@katiebarnshaw]

@@berenscott8999 monash station is a srl station, i think you might have your projects mixed up.... also the very full multilevel N1 and S1 car parks at monash uni are reason enough to improve transport to that area

[@berenscott8999]

@katiebarnshaw yeah it is, but it's related by this Victorian government being retarded. You missed the point, nobody lives anywhere near Monash station, it's nothing but office, commercial and industrial. Nobody is going to use this train line. It's expensive and retarded. It's already perfectly served by smart buses. Are you going to replace those smart buses with a train? Nope, because the smart buses have a tonne of stops compared with this train line. Give me an actual journey that anyone will use. I will give you one, I'm in Dandenong and I have to get to Box Hill. But my destination and source aren't near the station. So, bus to Dandenong, train to Clayton, walk to Clayton SRL, train to Box Hill, bus to destination. Or I jump in my car and drive down the East Link which is actually in Dandenong. Nobody will use this train. The first leg will only go to Box Hill before they realise it's not going to work. It's never going to get beyond Box Hill. As you move North and West you realise it's even worse.

[@PJRayment]

@@berenscott8999 "Nobody lives out that way and you know it." No, I don't know it. Of course, what you mean is not "nobody", but "not enough". But how much is enough? "There is no residential in the area and a train station with no residents is absolutely dumb." Such as Flinders Street, Southern Cross, Flagstaff, Melbourne Central, Parliament, Jolimont, etc.? I guess they are dumb too. Perhaps we ought to close them as they are clearly not needed. On the contrary, Monash is clearly a suitable place for a _destination_ station.

[@berenscott8999]

@PJRayment the city is a suitable place for a destination station. General Motors is a great example of a destination station in the suburbs. Understand? Learn from history. If Monash were positioned at the main road with feeder buses, and a tonne of residential apartment buildings. It's not, the area surrounding the station has no need for it. Great parking, all the businesses around it will consume it.

[@Techno-Universal]

6:52 Sometimes this takes the form of the second driver sitting in the rear cab on standby to then become active at the terminus with the other driver leaving the train or staying on to travel off duty to another station that’s more convenient for them to get home from! :)

[@bluckfox]

DEFINING CROSS- CITY SITRAYA LINES LOL great video keep up the great work Straya Trains

[@StrayaTrains]

Thanks

[@bluckfox]

@@StrayaTrains i just made you a christmas gift for you

[@gibbo_303]

reopening the extra platform at brighton beach sounds like the easiest way to go? most expensive cost would be resurfacing the platform, if that is even needed, sure you will room for 1 less train but just run 1 less service in the morning and peak? sounds like a good trade off for a better frequency for the majority of the day

[@PJRayment]

It wouldn't require one less train. Only two are stabled at Brighton Beach in any case, and even _if_ the platform was used to stable a train, it just means that train will be the first train from Brighton Beach. But I think that there are other costs involved than what you imagine. Probably an upgrade to the signalling would be asked for, for one.

[@RumperTumskin]

Pretty simple - use the extra available platforms at Flinders St to run Williamstown services only from there, thereby increasing frequency on the Werribee line to 15 minutes same as Sandringham

[@jdillon8360]

Good suggestion

[@StrayaTrains]

Unfortunately the Altona Loop means frequency can't really get much better than every 20 minutes for the Werribee Line on a stops all train

[@jdillon8360]

@@StrayaTrains Yeah the Altona Loop is a bit of scheduling challenge.

[@warfradio4287]

The ten minute frequency can easily be done with what's already in place at Sandringham. During the peak, the Sandringham line already runs at a 7-8 minute frequency.

[@StrayaTrains]

This is due to drop on driver usage and even with this a number of trains depart a few mins late

[@markspublictransportvideos8429]

Train can run to Sandringham every 10 minutes off peak it has happened before when the Frankston lines was shut for major construction work. A second platform at Sandringham could happen but probably not for at least 5 to 10 years anything is possible

[@StrayaTrains]

Yes, can be done but required trains to run pretty much on time which isn't possible all the time

[@AutumnBosco]

Very good explanation of the problem!!

[@StrayaTrains]

Thanks

[@m31tdown]

If they build the island platform they should keep the original platform and have spanish solution boarding where the doors open on both sides of the train for 2 of the platforms

[@IamTheHolypumpkin]

How about stagering both platform at Sandringham behind each other, with a second platform across of Abbott Street (maybe also closing the level crossing). You would only need to add another switch right past the existing platform and relocate the existing switch past the second platform.

[@StrayaTrains]

Intersting idea!

[@msg5507]

I think Cronulla station in Sydney is like this - 1 platform long enough for 2 trains at the terminus of the line.

[@P3ncakes]

The Brighton Beach platform 1 needs to open because if some trains needs to terminate they can so they can’t hold up a Down Sandringham train or Up Sandringham train

[@msg5507]

I extracted some data from Philip Mallis's recent blog on patronage and was surprised that there isn't that much difference in the passenger numbers between these lines. Stations only on the Sandringham line after South Yarra had a combined patronage of 6.7 million in 2023-24, and the combined Williamstown, Werribee and Laverton lines after Footscray had 8.6 million. Terminating some services from the west at Flinders Street would be an option as would Brighton Beach.

[@StrayaTrains]

Intersting. Thanks for the data!

[@caleb1016]

another thing is to possibly run the Laverton/Werribee line to Glen Waverley, due to existing points at Richmond junction and the absence of trains to interfere with considering the whole Caulfield corridor is mostly taken out of direct flinders services. And the Williamstown line through runs with the Sandringham line. Just a possibility there are still complications with Richmond junction.

[@PJRayment]

The Laverton to Glen Waverley idea would require those trains crossing the paths of every down Frankston train (i.e. every ten minutes and more frequent in the peak periods), as well as a few other trains. Also Laverton has a 20-minute frequency (and can't do much better with the single line), whereas Glen Waverley has a 15-minute frequency. Similarly, Williamstown has a 20-minute frequency most of the day (peaks included) while Sandringham a 15-minute frequency between peaks and about double that during the peak periods.

[@Fitzroy-p3e]

That’s why platform one at Brighton beach exists

[@CentreHalfBack]

Love your channel. Maybe others know better, but what about keeping Sandy at 15min freq and straight thru to Williamstown. Then Werribee runs also 15min freqs to Flinders St and back out, or into Nth Grp Loop?

[@James.Jacks0n]

One factor of the Metro tunnel was the take pressure off the northern loop, not add it either the Werribee line

[@CentreHalfBack]

@James.Jacks0n makes sense... also my thought doesnt have Altona answer.

[@StrayaTrains]

Thanks! Got to remember the single track along the Altona Loop and connection times at Laverton mean that timing can't really improve to better than every 20 mins on a stops all

[@andrewhighriser9531]

I can't see a problem with a ten minute service on the Sandringham line off peak. I don’t know about peak but we are all used to waiting a short time for a platform to clear.

[@Nick-kz6dg]

Great video but a suggestion for maps and graphics that you use a “safe area” around the edge so that info doesn’t get cut off on different screen sizes. Edge-to-edge graphics are a tricky business!

[@StrayaTrains]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@AbsintheBabe]

Trains are scheduled to take around 5 minutes to turn around at a terminus, so I don't think it's that big of a deal right now, and would only be beneficial in case of delays. Even then, it's still not so bad. They could run a 10 minute frequency today. They can make up that time at Werribee or Williamstown.

[@flynnbop]

I think you have a great speaking voice, but man, the random gaps you have when you speak really breaks the flow of the sentence. I think you need to work on reading your scripts and such, because your voiceover feels rushed.

[@jlu]

I disagree. It's not too much of an issue to detract from the video

[@StrayaTrains]

Thanks for the feedback. Will try to improve the flow of recordings!

[@flynnbop]

​@jlu It may not be for you, but if you are doing voiceover in all your videos you definitely want to improve in how well you speak in them. I've seen many people have similar issues with voice over improve after getting feedback, and considering how many likes I got I'm sure many people would be happy. He has a great voice, but a lot of parts just drag on and it sounds like he's doing his first take on reading his script. Just feels like he should put a bit more time into recording so the pacing and speed becomes smoother. Not sure why my other comment got removed, hopefully this one doesn't lol

[@AlienLika]

Now that you mentioned it, I can't unhear it! But yes lovely speaking voice and videos as always!

[@lochlanhaydon6881]

Yay, I wondered what will happen for x-traps on the Werribee and Williamstown lines

[@markspublictransportvideos8429]

X'trapolis can't run in service on the Sandringham line for various reasons so when the metro rail tunnel opens up X'trapolis wont run to Werribee or Williamstown. The Sandringham and Werribee and Williamstown lines will be operated by Siemens mostly or 100%. Frankston line will run mostly x'trapolis and x'trapolis 2.0 and possibly a small amount of Siemens or comeng

[@StrayaTrains]

X'Traps won't run on the Sandi Line in service probably ever at this stage

[@JTAustralia]

At the start I thought it was the train...

[@Nevergonnagiveyouup504]

i wonder what rolling stock it will have. it will be siemens but will there be any comeng, or x trap

[@StrayaTrains]

Most likely Comeng and Siemens

[@Nevergonnagiveyouup504]

@@StrayaTrains thats what i thought. will x traps run on the cross city group again

[@StevenSmith0306]

How are the East Pakenham/Cranbourne customers going to get to Richmond for sporting events? Are they going to have flinders St direct services or will they have to change at Caulfield for over crowd the frankston services?

[@jdillon8360]

Looks like pakenham services are due to stop at both Caulfield and Malvern, to make for easier transfers between the south eastern lines

[@Wdeane1957]

​@jdillon8360 this will work as long as the Frankston service has more trains for sports events as they'll then be carrying not just their current passenger load but passengers from Pakenham and Cranbourne too. Why not just run a few extra Pakenham and Cranbourne trains to Richmond bypassing the tunnel? Vline and freight will still be using the current tracks. Those special trains could then run via the loop back towards Dandenong (the City Loop tunnel entrance will still be there) or through Flinders St onto Sunbury.

[@StrayaTrains]

Good question. Yet to be determined

[@carrahulley8484]

Good video 📹

[@StrayaTrains]

Cheers

[@OfficalMelbourneGreenQuad]

Can’t they just change the Sandringham line timings to match Werribee/williamstown?

[@bionicseaserpent]

they probably should have worked all this out before the tunnels nearly ready to open honestly. Sandringham doesn't get a lot of touch ups so i'm sure the locals would have been perfectly fine with a touch up or opening another platform at least.

[@jdillon8360]

There probably is a solution (or several) that just haven't been made public yet.

[@berenscott8999]

Your forgetting one thing. Williamstown could just go back to running a shuttle. The only reason that it doesn't during peak is because of the 10 minute frequency for Frankston. Okay, so Williamstown stays at 15 minute frequency but Werribee goes from 20 minute to 15 minute and Williamstown turns into a shuttle service? And let's be honest Williamstown could run to the city and terminate at Flinders Street as a stopping all stations train and then run the Werribee express through all the stations between Newport and Footescray.

[@StrayaTrains]

Unfortunately this doesn't work as Laverton or Werribee stops all cannot operate at a better than 20 min frequency due to the Altona Loop as noted in the video

[@berenscott8999]

@StrayaTrains werribee has an express track that bypasses Altona loop. So we know it can do more. We don't have to run every train through Altona.

[@PJRayment]

"The only reason that it doesn't during peak is because of the 10 minute frequency for Frankston." No, it's also to provide a 10-minute frequency between Newport and the city. And if Werribee operates to a 15-minute frequency, what do the Laverton services do, which can't do much better than a 20-minute frequency? Plus, terminating shuttles at Newport makes the place very congested.

[@berenscott8999]

@PJRayment work it out. Does Williamstown even need a train for literally a couple of stops? The network needs fixing. Simplification. Something major needs to happen. Honestly, it's not like they need to run cross city. Sandringham can just terminate as is.

[@StrayaTrains]

On weekend all trains run Via the Altona Loop. On weekdays Werribee express connect with Lavo stop all at Laverton so timing there is important too

[@YoussefPlayzz]

Has Comeng 551M-1126T-518M been connected to 519M-1110T-520M?

[@StrayaTrains]

Not sure. Have to go out and check

[@YoussefPlayzz]

@ well I’m currently connected to 543M-1122T-544M like I always get connected to the worst sets possible💀

[@carisi2k11]

Why not add an Island platform between track 2 and 3 to create 3 platforms.

[@StrayaTrains]

Not needed

[@m00nh34d]

Why can't the drivers change over during off-peak times as well, like they do during peak times?

[@StrayaTrains]

Just doesn't happen off peak generally speaking

[@TimChuma]

2026 for Metro Tunnel easily

[@nicksza_au6339]

more than likely the govrnment would change the werribee/williamstown lines to 30 mins instead of 20

[@PJRayment]

There is a considerable reluctance to _reduce_ service levels. So on, that's not likely at all.

[@benno2468]

👋🏼

[@StrayaTrains]

Hello!

[@mikldude9376]

The inside shots of the passenger area of the train bouncing around like hell shows the quality of our lines 😂.

[@BrendanHinton-q1s]

7th