The D&D Dilemma

[@carlnesbit6767]

People always say: "Just keep playing the old version." I've seen it for DND 3.5, X-Wing, and several other games. But it doesn't work long term. It splits the player base and is confusing for new players. "What do you mean I bought the wrong players' handbook? It is too new? This one came out two years ago!" You can try to cling to the old ways, but every year, there will be fewer and fewer players in your camp until you are forced to switch just to have someone to play the game with you.

[@DoubleCritFail]

Great video! Personally, the OGL fiasco was the best thing to happen to me, because it got me to branch out and introduced me to so many TTRPGs. I think the 2024 D&D Books are make or break for Hasbro. I wish them the best of success, and I'm excited to try them out, but I could never go back to playing just D&D.

[@MyrrdynWhitefall]

The last book(set) I bought from WoTC is Spelljammer (which was very lack luster), because of the OGL scandal and One D&D (6e). I've decided to switch to Kobold Press for my core material and chose to fun their ToV kickstarter to be my go to material as a DM.

[@HoggyMayhem]

Ah, it feels so good to realize I don't need to worry about the DnD dumpsterfire after switching to pf2e

I am feeling the same right now !

[@possiblyneil4978]

It's kinda wild how at this stage when it comes to new DnD content there's probably more variety and quality to be found with 3rd party published material for the game than what Hasbro has put out. I feel for the designers, like it's an impossible position to be in. If deep changes to fix the issues with the core system, like you said, a lot of old official and 3rd party content breaks and needs adapting by GMs to be played. If the changes are superficial and don't address issues then you get the worst of every world where it looks like a cash grab and might still break things I think it's important to remember that just because things are bad for Hasbro right now doesn't mean things are bad for TTRPGs. There's so much to play with, new and old, and from so many publishers today and with more people interested in playing than ever.

[@hetwolfje]

I don't think i'll ever go back to DnD from pathfinder. Wizards has shown they care absolutely nothing about their players, they just wanna sell badly made books with poor writing that the DM has to fix. Wizards wants you to buy their products. Paizo wants you to play their game. Wizards tried to screw everyone over, that tells you all you have to know about their priorities.

[@AJBernard]

I am 100% with you on that.

[@lynnspitz8151]

You hit the nail on the head there. I will never buy another WotC/Hasbro D&D product. They've showed their true colors, and I don't trust them and will no longer support them. There are plenty of alternatives out there. Pathfinder 2e is probably the best known and most successful to date, but the upcoming DC20 system looks very promising too. Other systems break out of the old roll-a-d20 mold entirely, which makes the learning curve a bit steeper for players and GMs who have only ever played D&D, but some of them are *very* good and are well worth exploring. I personally don't believe that there is a one-size-fits-all TTRPG system that is right for everybody; the trick is to find one that suits your own group's preferred style of play and gameplay "feel" at the table. This often comes down to assessing how a game system handles combat and spellcasting. Is it fast and simple? Is it super-crunchy with lots of tactical options? Most players lean one way or the other, so finding a system that is a good fit for those leanings will really enhance your game. That said, even if WotC released a version of D&D that fit my personal preferences perfectly, I wouldn't buy it now. The D&D system has lost its soul since it went Big Corporate with Hasbro, and I'd much rather support the indie developers who still have a real passion for the game they've created.

[@obiwankenobi9439]

Never Forgive! Never Forget!

[@pipechair_DnD]

I understand what you are saying regarding the dilemma. But at the same time, I have my own expectations that the 2024 edition of D&D is going to contain great material. I also understand that WtoC is making various efforts to recover from the OGL fiasco. Personally, I think that if the D&D 2024 material is treated as "one of the D&D 2014 third-party materials published by WtoC," it would be possible to incorporate only the parts I like and continue the current campaign without much tinkering. Just as you would incorporate a monster from Tome of Beast into your own campaign, or an item from the Vault of Magic. There are plans to release Tales of the Valiant and C7D20, which are also 5e Alternatives, as well as pick up and mix elements of currently released alternative systems, such as Advanced 5e and Fate Forge. We think it would probably be a good idea to use 2024 D&D in the same way.

[@comfortablegrey]

Thanks for making this video! I'm drawing my line in the sand, Hasbro does not have my financial support anymore. Due to the algorithm, I will be forced to make D&D videos when One D&D is released BUT I will not be purchasing it or using anything but their SRD. If WotC is bought by a new company, I'll probably buy some books. If not, I can't do much but promote other games that I enjoy and love. Long live Paizo.

[@XanderHarris1023]

I like a lot of the player focused changees. I think the biggest changes are going to be to in the Monster Manual and we have seen zero material on that and will be the last book released.

[@pdubb9754]

The new version likely will clean up some of the flaws of the old version and likely will have its own flaws. RPGs lend themselves to house rules, to integration with rules from different source, to blending pre-written lore with personal creativity. There are lots of ways to individualize games to make them uniquely yours. This is and always will be the beauty of RPGs. I am curious about the new D&D and will likely buy the products, but I will always have the freedom to houserule, homebrew, and integrate with third parties.

[@shocknix]

They aren't changing any of the math. Just cleaning up terms and rebalancing things. Most 3rd party products will still work if they don't refer to specific class features or problematic spells. It's more like 3e to 3.5e.

[@ketsuekikumori9145]

I highly doubt they do it as the "last major edition". Microsoft had stated that windows 10 was the last major release and look we have 11. I'm fairly certain 12 is in the works already.

[@nattertot]

Good point!

[@jamesrickel3814]

I think it's a good thing for gamers to try new games. Trying a classless or narrative will give you more perspective. Go retro and try Phoenix command or Nightlife.

[@beancounter2185]

Regardless of the quality of the update, no one should ever forgive WoTC for the OGL scandal.

[@VanBurenPhilips]

or for the Pinkertons episode.

[@jasonshortt7]

This first comment should be pinned and highlighted. If you want to play D&D, there is anything pre-WotTC or you could try Pathfinder 2E. I have nothing left on my shelf that came from WoTC. I gave it all away.

[@yagsipcc287]

AD&D is the way to go or Pathfinder 1E for more modern game stuff or something like Shadowdark a bit more on the old school way but still brillaint!

[@mikeage9824]

This is the way. Wotc and hasbro only care about money. As soon as they actually game designers run the company or the IP is sold to a more reputable group its dead.

[@DarkMark-cf1ec]

Or shitting in Larian Studios mouth and push "ze eviiiil border controll" quest in the druid grove (ontop of other political BS that does'nt even make sense for the side they try to promote)

[@tsovloj6510]

Is this this dude's first D&D edition war/schism? I feel so old.

[@nattertot]

I started playing TTRPGs during the era of 4th edition D&D, then immediately switched to 5e when it came out, so I didn't participate in any of the brutal D&D wars of yore. 😆😉

[@tsovloj6510]

@@nattertot The things you are feeling and saying are age old. Unfortunately, I don't think there were any easy answers back then either. Making the jump or playing the old stuff, they both have their pains. Having said that, I do a lot, a lot of converting my old 3e modules to 5e. It's work, but it's easier than making my own dungeons. Take that as you will.

[@ruanpaollorosa4332]

Just a quick comment to help the algorithm! Even if Chris and Jeremy have good intentions, I don't think I'll ever go back to D&D. You are so eloquent and handsome Nate! Hugs from Brazil.

[@nattertot]

Thanks for the comment and the compliment! 😁

[@loke6664]

Yeah, they screwed you guys pretty badly by pulling in the license and then stopping to support your language. I think D&D lost Brazil as long as Hasbro owns them. I am not sure why they did it either, they had a company translating their books and paying licensing fee and replaced that with nothing, a very strange decision.

[@IcarusGames]

I don't think you need to worry. The design team have said in that fireside chat you referenced that the core of the game system is staying the same, and will remain compatible with the adventures from the last 10 years; which means it will be mostly compatible with 3pp adventures too. Saving throws, skills checks, DCs, are all still going to be there, and all the monsters present in 2014 edition will presumably be in the 2025 MM broadly at the same CR, so even if their statblocks have changed slightly and they have new or different abilities, they should still broadly work for the level of content the adventure is pitched for. I believe it was in that same chat that Christ Perkins said the motivation for changing editions in the past was declining sales; WotC would see a trend downwards in sales which would indicate to them the community wanted a new edition, but that hasn't happened with 5e, which is why we're getting a revision, not a completely new edition. Where I don't think it will be compatible is with class options. They've said multiple times that 2024 classes can share space in a party with 2014 classes, but I just don't think that's going to be the case. A PHB build character is already pretty different to one built with a subclass an options from a book like Tasha's Cauldron, so I can't see 2014/2024 blended parties working particularly well. As for walled gardens, OGL, and licensing; I 100% believe we'll see an SRD for the 2024 revision, because it's in their best interests. If they don't do it, 3pp will keep making content for the 2014 version, fragmenting their customer base. It also buys them a lot of community good will which they desperately need, and if the system is broadly compatible with the current 5e anyway, 3pp would be able to use the existing SRD to make content for the new version with very little effort anyway, so they may as well officially support that.

[@nattertot]

Well said! yeah, some of the new classes feel very strong when compared to their 2014 counterparts, so I feel like it'd require the GM to limit it to either 2014 OR 2024 classes and not both at the same time.

[@GoofyGE3K]

Thing is they say this with every edition that comes out

[@IcarusGames]

@@GoofyGE3K we've had 8 playtest packets to see the direction they are taking the 2024 books, and unless they throw all of that and rewrite the game, it's going to be like 95% compatible with what we have now based on what we've actually seen. They are changing class stuff and some of the minutiae, but the core system, the stuff that actually matters for compatibility, is staying the same.

[@norcalbowhunter3264]

Paizo said this about the PF2e remastered too and while I am sure some people will say that game is largely backwards compatible they removed alignment which changed how 2 classes work fully, plus changed how a lot of spells worked. They also changed a ton of feats and spells. I constantly have to remind my players "We're played the remastered and that's now how that (feat/spell/ability) works anymore." I think this idea that nothing is going to change and you will just keep playing exactly the way you are now is just used cars salesmen lingo. The game is gonna change. It may not be a lot, but it is gonna change.

[@IcarusGames]

@@norcalbowhunter3264 But again, the core of the PF2 system didn't change. Other than checking the new wording for the spells, the remaster changes didn't impact my group playing PF2 in any meaningful way. If you were playing one of the more impacted classes obviously it would have though. Of course things will change with the new release for D&D later this year, but the core of the system (d20 +/- modifiers vs DC with ADV/DISADV) isn't changing, and from what we've seen of the 8 UA playtests, the broad progression of player power with proficiency isn't changing either. So if you have an older adventure that calls for a a DC 15 dexterity saving throw, you can be pretty safe assuming that post 2024 release your characters are still going to be making dex saves and that DC 15 will be about as difficult at the given level as it was before. That's the kind of compatibility that we're talking about here. The PHB, DMG, and MM will replace their 2014 counterparts, so the only non-adventure books that will have content that are likely to get made outdated are Xanathar's, Tasha's, the Book of Many Things, and Monsters of the Multiverse, and the degree to which the content in those books becomes outdated is yet to be seen.

[@timjohnson2533]

I've never had a problem with the designers of D&D. While I don't like their design, it doesn't mean that I don't recognize that they're really passionate and are working with the baggage of a system that is decades old. My problem is the management. I won't ever buy another WoTC product, because they belong to a publicly traded mega-corp who promote the severely incompetent to major positions while firing swathes of their creative and customer support staff after having 'record profits' posted. Their messaging for the 'new iteration' of the game has equally been abysmal. I've never seen a more bafflingly confused campaign of explanations, backtracking, and dancing-around as I've seen with their message about what the next edition even *is*. For a while, it seemed to change from month to month. I don't think this is the fault of the designers, it's their leadership. And those leaders are still there, plotting ways to make their shareholders happy with 'recurrent spending'. I hope they can turn it around. In my personal opinion, I don't think the paint they're coating the new edition with will fix any of the major flaws. The monster design/CR system will still be near unusable, and the sub-class bloat will grow. The 'off or on' mechanics will still be just that too. But I do want the game to succeed. As much as I really detest Hasbro and it's practices, I do want these people to have work, and to have that work see the light of day. I don't want any creative people to have to go through having all that work trashed. People like playing D&D, and they deserve to have a game that works well for them. So fingers crossed that the management can find a way to keep their feet out of their mouth in the meantime.

[@loke6664]

I am hoping they sell the IP or license it out to someone that will put in the resources needed. Hasbro isn't doing great and their CEO wants to focus hard on games since BG3 did so well. Sadly for him, Larian got a bit upset when they fired all people at WotC who worked with them when the game released and I don't think they understand how much work Larian spent making the game a success. I can't think of a single D&D based successful video game between Neverwinter nights and BG3. They fired a lot of people from WotC so it isn't strange that we get a lot of strange different information about the new edition. They have also used AI art and Hasbro's boss said he wanted to feed an AI all modules from the last 50 years and have it churn out new modules cheaply. I think I will stay with older editions and other games myself.

[@flikersprigs5641]

Its not about if they're backwards compatible as technically every adventure ever written for dnd is compatible with every other edition, its going to be about the amount of work the DM needs to do to make it work and how much you want the adventure to work with the system as opposed to the system working with the adventure (but thats more for older modules) the 5e to 5e compatibility will entirely depend on the nature of the changes like as long as an athletics check is an athletics check, an attack roll is still an attack roll, etc it'll be compatible with minimal effort required by the DM to run. The least compatible part will be the monsters in so far that with the new class chassis the old monsters will most likely not pose the same threat but if the design team's promises of revamped monsters are to be believed you should be able to just use the new ones instead of the old ones.

[@jonothanthrace1530]

That's like saying every Playstation system is backwards compatible if you're willing to do hardware and/or software mods.

[@chiragasnani3437]

4:00 I feel the comparison between pathfinder 1e and 2e, with Dnd 5e and One D&D isn't equivalent. A fairer comparison would be with pf2e and the pathfinder remaster, which is 2e but changed up. They also remade the corebooks and it's backwards compatible with the 2e adventures.

[@CassieCarryd]

5e isn't the only TTRPG available to play right now and it isn't even the only edition of DnD that can be played right now. If OneDnD is good and isn't actually backwards compatible, it'll be completely separate but if it is backwards compatible, enough people will bother to "fix" third party content, even if they have to for their personal table. Nothing will make me hand Hasbro money as they crush and kill DnD as it is. I will continue to plunder my way to play a game I enjoy with my friends and I will mourn the eventual death of WotC that it signed itself away to when they entrusted Hasbro with their direction.

[@norcalbowhunter3264]

I mean that is kind of what happened with the Pathfinder Remastered "Oh it's just the same game we only pulled away from the OGL." Okay, but you removed alignment as well, which totally changes how clerics and champions work. There's also been a lot of changes with spells and feats and other mechanics that I constantly have to remind players "Hey we're playing the remastered version of pf2e. That's not how it works anymore." So even though I am sure 99% of people would argue that game is backward compatible it does offer enough stumbling blocks that you basically have to relearn the system. So I am curious how WotC plans to pull this off. I feel at best case it will be line pf2e remastered, at worse it'll be a 3.5e situation.

[@teraxe]

As someone that has played for 40 years and still uses a ton of my 2nd ed DnD books, along with 3rd and 4th. I have no issues converting to Revised 5e, assuming it is better. As for forgiving them for OGL, that is a non-issue, they actually didn't DO anything that I have an issue with, they proposed a lot of bad ideas, but they listened to our feedback and changed course and actually made a huge improvement to the game by making the SRD creative commons.

[@yagsipcc287]

Just about to turn 33 and I am in love with AD&D but using 1E rules they just feel better imo, Also loved Pathfinder 1E when it came out pretty much 3.5.5 D&D.

[@teraxe]

@@yagsipcc287 I have a ton of 1E, and I also have BECMI, just don't play them or even really use those books anymore.

[@russellharrell2747]

If 5.5 is to 5E that 2E was to 1E, then all previous 5E stuff would totally be compatible with a bare minimum of conversion. If it’s a bigger difference then it’s probably gonna be too much of a pain. Also, do most groups even play unaltered 5E with zero change in rules?

[@chrism2441]

Watching this from a very comfortable PF2e GM chair is entertaining 😄

[@Stefano-rp2go]

Well, I think that we're basically going to live the Same experience that people had with D&D 3 and d&d 3.5, the same game but with a twist*. *It's not a twist, people had to choose between a good game and the cooler version of the same game. Third party publishers were destroyed and GM had to do a lot of work.

[@christopherhood6573]

I sometimes struggle with this very issue. On one hand, I understand that WotC and Hasbro are corporations and only care about how much money they can squeeze out of people. This is just how corporations are and this should not be a new thing. The OGL Debacle turned me sour on WotC and Hasbro, but I've never lost my love for D&D, so I continue to play. In saying that, however, I refuse to give WotC and Hasbro anymore of my money. I haven't purchased anything they have put out since, but I have bought 3rd party content designed for 5E. As for OneD&D, I doubt I will buy any of the books and I will continue to play 5E as it stands right now. Although I've seen the playtests and saw some nice changes they made, I just can't make myself spend any money on the new books coming out. This is a personal choice for me and not one I expect anyone else to agree with.

[@cyanic3148]

from all the playtests, it seems like onednd is gonna be closer to 5e rather than pf2e, I do think if you, say, play a onednd monk and a 5e monk in the same game, it's gonna be a full mess lmao, but I think even if onednd is gonna be a better system, a group can still stick to 5e, but adopt _some_ of the changes from onednd to make their current system play/feel better, there may be some fundamental mechanics that would be too much work to adopt backward, but that would also vary from DM to DM, (I personally mostly do changes to things that my players would take or wanna try out, so if there's like an overhaul for sorcerer in onednd vs 5e, I'm not gonna touch it unless my player(s) have expressed a desire to try it)

[@HughRGlen]

I have a sinking suspicion that WOTC really is making this... just (not)compatible enough... in order to con people into buying the new books. It will also invalidate much 3rd party content (assuming you move to nuD&D) which will hurt a lot of them as they also have to pivot and re-design. Could boost sales for creators with solid reps though (especially anyone who gets a partnership deal). But yeah; nothing about their backwards compatibility claims seem to hold weight.

[@KajtekBeary]

Tbh, I think, in the long run, it would be healthy for the whole ttrpg community if 6e were to fail and dnd5e were to loose it's crown. OGL crisis was imo a step into the right direction. I'm really hopeful for other projects, I want to see them succeed, and I want watc to bite the dust. I know it won't happen, but world where there are multiple top TTRPGS is a world I would want to live. I would love to see a market that is not dominated by one singular, not that good even, game. There was a time like this before, when pathfinder stole the throne, but they had close competiton. My first campaign started before 5e come out and it was in Call of Cthulhu, later I played GURPS, 13th Age, Dungeon World, City of Mist, Pathfinder 2e, Mothership, Worlds without Numbers, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and Blades in the Dark, on both sides of the screeen, before I even once rolled a character in 5e, and when I did, I was very dissapointed. I would love to see a future where those games get the recognition they deserve, where 6e/5e isn't the king, but just one of the combatants on the battlefield, in the same line as those games I listed and many more. Or, even if still it were the biggest game, let the margin be far smaller then it is now, just like it is in other similar types of activities (boardgames or different genres of computer games, wargames are dominated by warhammer just like ttrpgs are dominated by 5e.) Thus I won't be buying ANY stuff from WotC, or even Hasbro, in a foreseeable future, no matter how good 6e will be. And no matter how good it will be, it won't be as good as half of those games, because, while there are passionate people working on 6e, it's not a product of passion like many of those systems are, it's just another product designed to pump as much money into hasbro's stage holders pockets as it's humanly possible. The only thing that's bothering me is that DND's downfall would hurt the 3rd party creators... but maybe in a world where DND is not as big as it is currently, doing 3rd party stuff for other systems or even systemless content would be far more profitable.

[@justink4051]

With what we have currently in Ua thing will be fine. I have playtest the new classes with older subclasses with no issues. I used old monsters with no issue. Unless their are massive sweeping changes to mechanics that were not in ua. I literally had my players pick any subclasses they wanted from both 5e and one dnd with no issues. I have them pick any feat that wasn't changed with no issue. If you don't like dnd as a company that is find if you want people to dive more into other games that is is good but you need to understand that. If you keep doing dnd content on the side or compare other systems to dnd that is what people are going to watch that is where the interaction is going to be. They way I founf the world of darkness games were through videos that had nothing to do with did they way I initially learned pathfinder even though it wasn't for me was through a video that had nothing to do with dnd. If you want people to changes systems. Run a one shot make a intro to the system video because using dnd as a foot stool to get other people into different ttrpg's is not gonna work. I play 3 ttrpgs at the moment Fate Core, Vampire the masquerade and dnd 5e, I play them for different reasons and for different purposes. If you don't like dnd and want more diversity in the ttrpg scene than make it. Introduce people into different one. Give them a understanding of the rules and go from there. Making content about how this is better than dnd when the person has no understanding of the rules and no understanding of different systems is not gonna make the average person play it especially the new people getting to the the scene.

[@onlynormalperson]

I don't think I'm going to check out One DnD because I'm happy with PF2e, my players have never expressed a preference, Paizo is unionized and seems to be both more worker and consumer friendly, and if I do want to take a break I'm not going to play a system that tried to achieve the same goals, I'm going to run a totally different thing like Blades in the Dark or another indie RPG.

[@GeekMasterGames]

I don't want to give them my money ever again. If I do, it's accidental, but I'm not gonna buy their books. If someone buys them for me, fine, but I don't want to renew my DND Beyond subscription or buy any new books. There's still some great 5e stuff out there, but WotC has lost my trust. I need more than a shiny new set of books to win me back.

[@angrymushroom26]

It has been making a nose dive since 4e, D&D is fun but I think this needs to be a wake up call to try the alternatives because D&D just doesn't have the same polish that it did and now they are trying still to run it like it is fortnite, idk about most folks but D&D and stuff was the game we played because we had the handful of books and it can be run with a set of dice and notebook paper. Not everyone is going to be able to nor want to shell out hundreds on the game. I don't know how they can monitize, they are a business and that is needed to be done, but the way they are doing it now is just going to kill the vibe.

[@insertjokehere212]

Never forgive this and never forget this. They're owned by a large corporation. You will not get a game made with love and care and passion from them.

[@russellharrell2747]

This has been true since 3.x

[@BrandonPatrk317]

I'm not buying $350 worth of new books for a new system, because we're suckers if we think it's not 6e. I'm wondering, though, if the translation will be ... instinctive.

[@jonothanthrace1530]

5:15 d&d stealing Pathfinder's changes from 1e would be both hilarious and awful.

[@TheNanoNinja]

I've already bought Pathfinder 2e Remastered. I have a range of games. Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Traveller. Worlds and Stars Without Number looks good. There's plenty to choose from. D&D is okay. Too many KZbinrs making broken character builds. Every solution is the DM will fix it. Then you wonder why there's a DM shortage.

[@Arafor]

It's not paranoia if they are actually after you. Or, as in this case, if the company is perfectly willing to screw over it's customers for short-term profit.

[@sumdude4281]

Technically, every edition is compatible. If there is an Orc in a 5e campaign and you want to play 1e you just pull out the 1e Orc. Saves are covered too. You can do DC checks in 1e if that is your thing. It's all compatible. You don't need 6e or whatever. Have an old adventure take the 1e orc and use a 5e orc. Shrug. Keep it simple.

[@avengingblowfish9653]

I don’t understand where this sentiment is coming from that OneDnD will be radically different. Even if you don’t trust WotC, it’s in their financial interest to not make all their previously published adventures incompatible. Have you been paying any attention to the play tests? It seems that 99% of the changes are just going to be class/spell redesigns that you can just treat as brand new classes/spells. Do you have a specific example of a mechanical change that could affect your other 5E stuff?

[@nattertot]

I'm mainly referring to the major changes they're making to the classes and monsters, because from what I understand the core mechanics are staying the same. 📕 With the current version of 5e, it's already kinda difficult to balance a combat encounter with a large party, and with the new classes, features, and all that stuff, they've said that you can still use them with old monsters and classes. But from what I've seen from the playtest material, it seems like if you were to do that there'd be a major power difference between old monsters, classes, and features vs their newer versions (which is why I compared it to using material from Pathfinder 1e in a Pathfinder 2e campaign. It can work, but could feel out of place and require more work on the GMs side of things). 🧌 But regarding third party material, I'm mainly worried that since a lot of that material is balanced to current classes, features, spells, adventures, etc. that in classic D&D power creep fashion, using the new material will be a player's best option if they want to be relevant in combat encounters, because old material might be underpowered by comparison. Which could mean that with a 3rd party created adventure with unique monsters, spells, features, and all that stuff, will the GM have to put in more work to re-balance all that stuff to the new material if they want to use the adventure with new PC class options? We won't 100% really know until the full release I suppose. Hope this helps clear things up! Sorry for the long explanation. 🙏😅

[@avengingblowfish9653]

@@nattertot I'm not worried about that because 5E is already so imbalanced that a DM needs to re-balance stuff most of the time anyway. I had a Gloomstalker in my campaign doing 63 damage on their first turn at level 4 when everyone else was doing about 10 damage on average.... even with PHB only, a Moon Druid effectively has over 80 HP at level 2 while still dealing more damage than the party's fighter or barbarian. Published modules are not balanced either... Lost Mine of Phandelver puts players up against a CR 8 Green Dragon at level 3, in Curse of Strahd, most level 10 parties can kill Strahd in a single round unless the DM is experienced enough to use hit and run tactics in which case Strahd becomes completely unbeatable due to his wall/floor phasing. in my experience, I'm already putting in work to rebalance stuff all the time. I asked if you've been paying attention to the playtest material because a lot of the changes I've seen actually make it easier to balance existing adventures. Counterspell doesn't automatically shut down enemy casters anymore, they fixed all the Conjure spells, and got rid of Monk stunning strike spam (while making Monk better overall)... those 3 things are some of the biggest culprits that trivialize fights because a lot of adventures don't account for them.

[@echedp8903]

The OGL really wasn't the only bad news that has come about. We have had a whole year and a half of horrible news stories that have made me want to stay away from this company. And to be honest, I am sick and tired of buying 4+ books to run one game system. Other RPG systems work just fine with 1 book and tend to be MUCH better done. There are just so many better systems out there.

[@Darkwintre]

Nope it won't be better. Best wishes.

[@andrewsmith1261]

it seems to me, the "issue" of compatibility in TTRPG's is much ado about nothing. why are we even pretending that the community won't have them all working together in a week? if you ask me it just opens up the floodgates for all of you 3rd party content creators to make endless reddit threads and KZbin videos and forum posts teaching people how to transfer all their old content to the new system (and god bless you all for doing it) also as far as official stuff and third-party goes they will probably rework the content and sell it to you again if for no other reason then people will ask them too. just seems like any other update to any other system gaming or otherwise. Some stuff will work and other stuff won't and there will be a whole new market open for making that transition process easier for people both from official and social channels

[@GoldenXShark22]

so glad i dont have to worry about pf2e trying to send hitmen after me that shout vague rules and charge me for every little thing, and still have a worse system and official setting that is boring as fuck. I hope people who stick to whatever the fuck wotc is making don't get shafted, but if you choose to stick by them after what's happened, you have no one to blame but yourself. The biggest shame is all the cool 3rd party stuff like heliana's and others like it, that don't have a pf2e compatible system. there is no way wotc can make a universal permanent system, that's very stupid, more systems should be encouraged that's okay. Innovation once in a while should be encouraged. I'd love to see a pf3e in the far future if paizo feels like they have done all they could with 2e, and the same goes for other companies. and speaking of trying other systems, really showed me how ass 5e is, it's such a half assed lazy ass game, that doesn't commit to a niche and excels in it. the biggest thing they have on their side is a huge player base that doesn't know any better.

[@loke6664]

I think it is unwise to copy too much things from Pathfinder 2e. Isn't that basically telling people they might just as well play Pathfinder instead? I also don't like what I have heard from Chris Cocks, CEO of Hasbro. That part about feeding 50 years of modules into an AI and have it write new modules for them sounds like a really bad idea. They have also fired a lot of people from WotC lately which isn't good either. Yeah, I don't think I want to give Hasbro any money so I wont buy this, at least until they actually seem interested in the IP for something else then video games. Paizo are gamers all the way up to their boss, while that is true for the people making D&D products, it certainly isn't true for their boss. I think the new edition isn't 6 edition because they really didn't get the resources to create new rules and playtest them. That leaves stealing rules from Paizo they know already work and to improve the formatting of the books. I don't blame the people making the game for that, making a true new edition isn't cheap but it is my feeling that Hasbro doesn't care about TTRPG players and are trying to milk the IP as much as they can without spending much money on it.

[@randomyoutubecommenterr]

People have been stealing things from Pathfinder 2e for 3rd party homebrew stuff for years and no one noticed. I doubt even if they stole it people would even realize it. Though most folks should just try Pathfinder 2e.

[@zebaklongfang9344]

Right now I am at the skeptical level... after the ogl an ai and all the rest of their nonsense, I did not bought the last books.. as for the core books and their "compatability" promisses, I will hold no real opinion untill I get to see the "new" core books... if its not dellayed again.

[@damonchen8606]

Saying it's the last major version of d&d is laughable. There is no possibility that is going to be the case. Even if the system is perfect (which obviously nothing can be), they love money too much to just leave it be. Even without the financial incentive.. it's human nature to want to change things. Old systems become dated and stale.. people will crave something new.

[@kurtoogle4576]

Adjusting to 5.5 D&D looks like it will be pretty easy, and the fan community will immediately begin testing the hell out of it, finding imperfections, and building resources and supplements. Like Nate, I am pleased with the many WotC course corrections. I am eager to try the new system.

[@pcwarduke2055]

I went back to playing 2nd edition. No more wotc

[@badmojo0777]

i hate when someone tries to talk about OneD&D and clearly hasnt even looked at the Unearthed Arcana.. IE doesnt know Jack squat qwhat they are talking abouty.. Wanna have an opinion, COOL!! make it an educated one instea dof talkin out your rear. Itsa not a new edition. Its the same game with mor eblaancing, quyality of lif eimprovmeents and ruyles clarification. AWEOSME!! If you get an oil change and a tuneup for your old car that doesnt maek it a NEW CAR. When Baldurs gate 3 gets an update, its not Baldurs gater 4. I appreciate an update after 10 year sof real life p[latesting, CANT WAIT.

[@GeryonM]

The most important thing to remember is you don't have to buy the new books. All that 3rd party stuff will still work with the books you already have. All your homebrew rules and settings still work. Don't buy the new stuff until you've given it a look over. Or wait for an honest review of them before you hand them your money. Given Hasbro's and WotC's adherence to "the Message" the "minor" changes and updates may not be worth it even if some mechanics are "fixed".

[@dwil0311]

Forgive and remember. They gave you guys everything you asked for and even some extra. They have done everything they could to rebuild good will. Not to mention much of the 3rd party content is pretty mediocre. And half of the things people complain about by WotC are essentially non issues (Pinkerton, AI, Christmas firings). People were just grasping at things to be upset about.

[@JediNiyte]

WotC D&D has ONE chance with me. If the new books pull back on the woke bullshit, I'll give them a chance. If not, I'm done.

[@azzaelulbrinter]

I mean, have you seen the UAs? The changes are rather minimal and the math behind them is mostly the same.

[@SerifSansSerif]

Here's the thing I don't want pathfinder. I have absolutely zero interest in pathfinder.

[@yagsipcc287]

The only 1 D&D there is is AD&D ;-) The best D&D IMO you need to think, you are not a super hero you are an adventurer. Pathfinder 1E was also great got alot of fun out of that when it came out.

[@jonothanthrace1530]

They should just call it 6E instead of lying to their userbase.

[@MrDecelles]

It's not 4 to 5th edition... It's 3 to 3.5 edition. Onednd will not be really changed.

[@PTLANS]

I'd rather make my own system from scratch than go back to D&D