The DAMAGED Characterization of Sonic the Hedgehog

[@georgegemerald]

when Jason Griffith Sonic talked 'less was more', so when he did talk it hit harder

[@notarobber5387]

I think a lot of people are missing the point with the video. The quality of writing is not the problem. The problem is that it doesn't feel like Sonic. It works for Archie because Archie is its own thing. IDW on the other hand is canon to the games and directly contradicts the characterization of how Sonic originally was. Once again the writing could be great but if it doesn't feel like Sonic, then the story fails at being a Sonic story.

[@SparkingSparks]

I don't think we know if IDW is cannon. The only thing that suggests so is some stuff in Frontiers, but certain characters from the comics existing in the world of the games doesn't mean everything in the comics is cannon.

[@notarobber5387]

@@SparkingSparks I think Ian Flynn and Chris Hernandez said it was canon.

[@ataladin87]

​@notarobber5387 they don't matter, Sonic teams word matters. Ian is just a guy they got to write for them.

[@fanboy3463]

@@ataladin87except he is literally the official “lore manager” for the series now and frontiers has dialogue that literally confirms idw is canon

[@ataladin87]

​@@fanboy3463lore manager means nothing really. Why have a team just to keep up with past events???

[@dr.koupop880]

I think it's trying to over-humanize Sonic to make him seem more relatable. It's a writing trend that's gaining traction: if you want to make a character hit home, give them mental illness to make the audience say "wow he's just like me"-- with that you get instant appeal instead of making a character that's themself but appeals to others. Lots of Sonic fans want a more "human" Sonic for some reason but it's not my place to judge.

[@SonicTheHedgehogX15]

This is what i hate the most The reason i love sonic is cause hes not relatable like us faulty humans, hes someone we can look up to and want to be, rather than “oh just like me” its what makes sonic inspirational, being not like us humans

[@kaistudios5536]

​@SonicTheHedgehogX15 EXACTLY! There was this video I watched on the quirkiness every Disney protagonist has now, and I remember the person saying something along the lines of, "I don't want them to be like me. I want them to be *BETTER* than me so I can strive to be like them!" And that's exactly what Sonic should be. *An inspiration. Not a relatable person.*

[@soya_kitchens]

And it's the same thing they're trying to do to Eggman for some reason, too. Even though he's actually human, he's supposed to be a caricature/ideal, just like Sonic. But now, Eggman has to be oh-so-quirky in his off-time, and treat his creations like they're his children just because that's a popular concept in fanart/fanworks.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

​@SonicTheHedgehogX15 I mean sonic has always had his fair share of flaws

[@matthewtartt9422]

@SonicTheHedgehogX15You explained why I hate Sonic

[@1MoreSonicRobot]

People think Sonic's old characterization is boring and stale? Wow. That sounds really familiar what Superman went through.

[@BigDripMike]

I might make a video about how they’re both similar in a way

[@1MoreSonicRobot]

@BigDripMike can't wait to watch it 👍

[@usablebear5507]

i think the problem with ian's writing is that he grew up with and worked on archie sonic, archie sonic is much closer to that traditional superhero type that he writes sonic as in the idw comics and frontiers. the big problem with that is archie and game sonic are fundamentally different characters and you cant write one like the other

[@HaughtyToast]

The thing about Sonic being a hypocrite with Metal isn't true. Sonic consistently advocates for freedom throughout the comic. He is willing to let people make their choices but that doesn't necessarily mean he likes the choices that they make especially if the choices get in the way of the freedom of others. This is why he gets on Metal Sonic's case, by Metal choosing to help Eggman it goes against his philosophy that everyone should have the opportunity to live freely, since Eggman's entire deal is trapping animals to fuel robots in order to enslaving the world to do his bidding. He even says later in the comic "The problem with letting people make their own choices is that sometimes they make the wrong ones." and he's not hypocritical here either. He berates himself when he encounters Eggman and breaks the data-reader, lamenting that his own choices have caused issues but in both this case and in the cases with the villains he's willing to keep adapting to the bad things that come because that's the cost of freedom and he's aware of that even if it gets frustrating. Freedom is and has always been a core part of Sonics character. He doesn't want Eggman to cover the world in metal because it messes with his freedom to run around and enjoy nature, he doesn't want animals to be locked in robots or people to be enslaved because that simply makes the world worse for everyone including himself, and he doesn't want Metal to go back to Eggman because he's already seen the potential that can come from Eggman's robots when they decide to be their own people and he prefers it that way. It has nothing to do with him seeing himself as a hero. Sonic has his vision for how things should be, Eggman has his, they butt heads over it, and Sonic will butt heads with anyone who supports him. This is already long but I also feel like it's worth pointing out that at the time Sonic chastises Metal, the world is in a much worse state than it had been in all of the other examples shown so he has every right to be frustrated. Not only that but the scenario here was that Sonic couldn't do anything but talk since he had to keep using the treadmill to fight off the virus. We saw what happened in the earlier encounter with Eggman when he stopped to fight, the virus spread more. Metal also wasn't doing anything at the time that required him to take any action since Eggman ordered him to play nice. Why shouldn't Sonic be allowed to talk rationally here when it's nothing at all like his encounters with Shadow or Blaze? But also readers of the comic aren't familiar with how Metal works so they needed to get that explanation from Eggman somehow. No excuse for the thing with Surge though, that whole panel could've been cut and it wouldn't have changed the scene. I doubt they're going to bring it back in the future either since there are better opportunities for Surge to be impacted by being at the Restoration base.

[@baselbaiatra7241]

japanese sonic has stayed intact pretty good

[@ataladin87]

@@baselbaiatra7241 I've switched to Japanese because of this.

[@baselbaiatra7241]

@@ataladin87 yeah the charactarization is on point for everyone

[@angaso02]

what do you mean by that? like what are the differences?

[@henriquezioto8760]

@@angaso02 The script, dialogue and characterization of the characters are heavily changed in the japanese versions of many of the recent sonic games, like Sonic Frontiers.

[@CC-pg6dl]

It confuses me when people say that they want consistency yet they rarely point out the Japanese interpretations of the characters. It's also a testament of how disconnected SoA and SoJ are in terms of keeping the characters in order.

[@FOOLYCOREY]

i wholeheartedly agree with this video. the new path they seem to be taking with sonic isnt my favorite but people seem to enjoy it. i also feel the same to the new eggman. giving him a "good/soft side" with characters like sage makes him feel like less of a threat to me. eggman is like the embodiment of all evil within humanity and sonic being everything good within nature. their dynamic is like when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object (both characters work on either side tbf).

[@BigDripMike]

@@FOOLYCOREY I see you understand it💯

[@ataladin87]

@@FOOLYCOREY Sage is a bad inclusion as she proves to be a weak spot for the doctor. The doctor is pure evil by his actions alone. Pure evil people can't afford to show care for others otherwise that'll be targeted.

[@notarobber5387]

@@FOOLYCOREY I'm fine with Sega showing Eggman's soft side a little because they already established that side of him in SA2 at the end, in Shadow 05 with his dialogue with shadow in the black doom boss, and Sonic 06 at the end. As well as Eggman giving his robots a pseudo sentience all the way back in Adventure 1 with gamma. However, I do agree they were leaning too hard into his sympathetic side in Frontiers, but at least it's understandable given the plot of the game and Eggmans past character showing hints of sympathy. Unlike characters like Sonic and Amy whose characterization and personality just changed abruptly and contradicts the original intention. A true evil Eggman will always be Eggman nega that guy is actually a psycho and had Eggman freaking out

[@hexbug101]

I can understand that viewpoint on Sage but I’m curious if this is a potential buildup to a redemption of Eggman as crazy as it sounds

[@ataladin87]

@@hexbug101 they'll be redemption if Eggman chooses, not because some horrible writer wants him to.

[@trainerred6990]

I personally like Flynn writing (Archie Sonic remains my favourite), but I understand fans who feel betrayed, and i feel like a core of the problem is modern SEGA strategy to "unite" canon, like, it worked when Archie had their own universe and story, but now everything offical is canon and that result with completely different versions from completely different writers, i think every media should be it's own thing, game Sonic is game Sonic, comic Sonic is comic Sonic. And advice for the future, many people don't like term "real Sonic", because it's sounds dismissive to other versions of the character, call it "original Sonic".

[@33pandagamer]

Yeah, it also just doesn't make sense for all these things to be cannon at once. There are some minor inconsistencies between the different medias, and I refuse to believe that everything in IDW takes place between Forces and Frontiers, too much time passes in the comic for it to make sense to me.

[@DynomiteX246]

I completely agree. I’m actually making a video on this in hopes people can get that multiple canons won’t hurt the Sonic product.

[@thepigvillage]

I think the seeds of this new personality are within the old one. The bad writing of the 2010s threw everything off, and I think if they remade Forces to give Sonic a character arc based on the torture Eggman puts him through and such, it would translate one into the other really well. Of course, it wouldn’t be feasible to remake all of the 2010s games, but Forces has the most missed potential imo

[@AtomicoMacaco]

Agreed. Oddly enough I can see specifically Prime Sonic, Forces Sonic, IDW Sonic and Frontiers Sonic all as the same character. I know they literally ARE the same character but I'm talking more of a character growth perspective. That, at the very least, by taking into account Sonic's development with Prime being him learning to be more understanding and how to better work in a team, with Forces being where puts it to the test and IDW/Frontiers having showings of a more mature Sonic that tries to better understand certain enemies and situations. Had those games/shows/comics been done a bit better and without the odd characterization of the 2010s coming beforehand, I think we would be on a good track regarding Sonic's current personality.

[@MiguelMartinon]

Sonic was never tortured in JP

[@thepigvillage]

@@MiguelMartinon dang

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

I think they combined his 2000's and 2010's characterizations so the sonic we have right now is the combination of both.. The only thing i agree is the whole philosophy schtick doesn't work.

[@Naruku2121]

Yeah, if you're talking about Frontiers onwards, I can see it.

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

@@Naruku2121 yes...the reason sonic doesn't feel like well... 2000's sonic is because ian tend combine the personalities of his 2000's and 2010's which is why he can be abit snarky and joking around (even though it's less nowadays) while taking things seriously at the same time and making him be more like sonic the people know if that make any sense and ngl..i would be lying if i didn't say i didn't like this interpetation quite abit seems balanced you know...because at the end of the day like deep inside it still feels like sonic i believe he's absolutely still there i think the current sonic we have right now is...fine but there's always room for improvement.

[@SonicTheHedgehogX15]

This reminds me of one thing “If you have time to worry, then run” Is what Sonic shouldve told himself, but nah instead hes worrying on right and wrong 💀

[@ataladin87]

@SonicTheHedgehogX15 *"Until you come around doc"* Whatever happened to freedom???

[@ddizxx]

@@ataladin87 I swear IDW Sonic's perception of freedom almost always contradicts itself lmao

[@chillnburn1]

For Ian loving to reference everything every five seconds you'd THINK that this is a proper quote to say to himself. The bias is absolutely crazy!

[@ataladin87]

@chillnburn1 the guy hates anything to do with, the 2000s. Like many of his fans who claim they also *"Liked"* the 2000s, but will only trash everything it tried to do.

[@SonicTheHedgehogX15]

@@ataladin87 wait really? No wonder his writing isnt as great in terms of characters, i say we get evan stanley as main writer for dialogue

[@alicesacco9329]

When I think to all Sonic characters, I always think to the way they are written by Shiro Maekawa. I love all of them. Other authors, both Japanese or American, always miss the point in a way or in another. Ian Flynn wrote great Shadow and Rouge in Archie Reboot, but he fell flat with Sonic. Always too conceited. At least in Archie he didn't seem hypocrite. In Shadow generation sonic being irritating somehow works. We see the world through Shadow so we have to feel what Shadow feels. This suggest me that Shadow actually doesn't hate anybody but he thinks Sonic is irritating.

[@ataladin87]

@alicesacco9329 didn't archie Sonic say that Tails basically *"Worshipped him??"* And shadow gens's story was mid.

[@trainerred6990]

​@@ataladin87 What Archie Sonic said was bad, but that whole point of this arc, Archie Sonic isn't static inspirational Marty Sue, he's teen with big ego and hero complex, but with heart of gold and he's growing whole Flynn run. I advise you watch video about Archie Sonic from ianwaffles.

[@ataladin87]

@trainerred6990 except he Shouldn't have a hero complex as he doesn't see himself as a hero. Why would he have a complex over something that's so little to him???.

[@trainerred6990]

@@ataladin87 Whole point of my comment is that Archie Sonic just built different, he is "Hero of Mobius" as stated in every issue of Flynn era of Archie. Sonic shouldn't be the same in every media

[@ataladin87]

@@trainerred6990 neither should they be made cannon into a different media.

[@crimsonzone8984]

15:15 that third chatter sounds like one of the themes of 06. The game tried to do this arc with Silver about taking out a person's life for the world or others. It's a shame that this arc was never continued or redo that failed attempt in 06.

[@tsg_net1327]

Sonic x did sonic perfectly in my opinion wish the series kept Sonic’s character like that

[@XavierBailey-p2f]

I like the movie characterization of sonic

[@Thepictureguy-h8g]

I see this issue a lot with pretty much any complex legacy character. The character has been tossed around at so many people so many times that nothing but their most notable attributes remain. What a lot of people forget that heroism as a whole isn’t a core characteristic it’s HOW they go about their heroism that makes them unique.

[@ataladin87]

@Thepictureguy-h8g Sonic really ain't that complex buddy.

[@Thepictureguy-h8g]

@ if you only look at the classic games, maybe.

[@ataladin87]

@Thepictureguy-h8g then read the manuals.

[@Thepictureguy-h8g]

@@ataladin87 the manuals only further prove my point. The Shadow the Hedgehog manual describes Sonic as someone who only stops Eggman because he finds it interesting. But the Sonic Generations manual describes him as a “white knight” type character.

[@ataladin87]

@Thepictureguy-h8g Shadow the Hedgehog's manual.had him down fine. Generations was written by two clueless people left on their own with 0 help And wdym *"WhiteKnight??"* it has him down as his freedom fighting self

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

19:47 stop right there! i think this comparison is really a bad example! there's a clear diffrence here spider man here is about to give up but sonic despite being pushed by his limits so much by the metal virus he still kept on going and never gave up until he came on top and save the day and stay optimism that he can save the day and his friends and succeeded at the end but here spiderman is giving up! but sonic never gave up despite being pushed by his limit and showing vulnerability like how he would because you don't see sonic complaining and bitching about the situation he's in despite being pushed by his limits in the same issue 23 at the end of it he still kept on going at the end!

[@Blitzrr]

I love the way you presented this idea and love the points made, respect for voicing your opinion in this way. I am a fan of both the old and new charactersation of Sonic, I keep in mind that Sonic has gotten older and grown since the series first started. I like to think he used to be an adventurer like you say, but he made a lot of friends since then and is willing to take on the hero role to protect them. (Also I like the Metal Virus arc, I believe Sonic was like that because he watched all his friends basically die. I think that is why he questioned himself and snapped at Metal.)

[@JonSuper-zn1lk]

There was some good points but for that job part “it’s like it’s our job or something” he has grown and his opinions could have changed on what he thinks and his character development shows that. He said that as joke clearly shown there “like it’s our job or something” that was to provide the fact that they beat him every time you deepened it too much I am not going to lie

[@AtomicoMacaco]

Although I agree with some of of what is said in this video(especially the whole spider-man thing), I simply can't agree with "in recent media, Sonic is out of character because he hasn't treated Surge and Sage like he did treat other characters like Shadow and Blaze in the past" when the whole point is that he LEARNED by interacting with Shadow, Blaze, Gamma, Gemerl and Knuckles that if the "bad guy" can end up just being someone misunderstood with a rough past, so he might as well give it a go at understanding them and givind them another chance. We shouldn't just look at past media to judge how a character acts in the future since character development literally dictates a character can act differently based on past experience. What would be odd however is if Sonic had a 180 and stopped caring about anyone he faces that shows any sign of having a deeper story behind their actions. It's important to note he also wasn't hostile to Silver in 06, it was mostly Silver attacking him if anything. Plus, in Frontiers, most of the script was already developed by Sonic Team, with Ian Flynn only writing the dialogue and offering some ideas that were later reviewed by other people, which implies the characterization might not even have been solely on him, but also on a multitude of people, of which I'm willing to bet have worked on previous Sonic games as well. I also can't agree with the notion that Sonic was always consistent prior to the 2010's and that he didn't show signs of vulnerability prior to that, because... He did. He was sad in Unleashed when Amy didn't recognize him and was ashamed to face her in his Werehog form. When Dark Gaia drained him of his werehog form, not only was Sonic weakened, he was scared and literall told Chip to run away. Other than Unleashed, he literally fell to his knees when Elise supposedly died in 06. He was saddened when Shadow died in SA2 and even had a heartfelt goodbye dedicated to him. The problem isn't for Sonic to be emotional or show vulnerability, but that it isn't that well done most of the time. And in a comic run, where it's only natural to present more personal moments for the characters since its run by now has more than 6 years of publishing, it's quite literally expected for Sonic to not be an one note "cool" character as it simply isn't possible to sustain such a long run with so many stories. Plus many people seem to forget that the whole idea of the Metal Virus is the idea that the situation is too risky. Sonic is constantly tired because he's constantly on the move during the entirety of that arc, making it harder for him to actually decide on what to do and if he'll have enough stamina to actually do it. Everyone is stressed out since everything is constantly going wrong and therefore lash out at each other, looking for someone or something to blame. "We were wrong to let Eggman go when he had amnesia", "Couldn't Eggman just have stayed as Mr tinker and spare us from this whole mess?", "If Metal Sonic had not gone after Eggman, this entire thing wouldn't have happened" are things the characters constantly think about. Heck, Sonic hardly brings up the whole Mr Tinker thing after this arc if not to spite Eggman. He KNOWS Eggman won't turn good, he just had hope for it to be possible since if his biggest annoyance reformed, then he could finally be at ease. In fact at first he was sure Eggman was just faking it like he already did more than once, he only decided to let Mr Tinker go once the people in the village actually asked him to do so. Also no, Sonic couldn't have known Eggman wouldn't change with amnesia because this specific scenario had never happened before in that canon. Besides, he HAD changed. The problem is his old persona resurfaced.

[@Skeleton20133]

Except you're wrong because Shadow, Blaze, Knuckles was never evil to start with.

[@AtomicoMacaco]

@Skeleton20133 that's precisely my point though...? It's exactly for this reason that he wasn't jumping the gun against Surge and Sage. He now has the understanding they might not be evil at all.

[@klaibornelorenzo6397]

​@Skeleton20133 I wouldn't lump Shaodw with Knuckes and Blaze. Knuckes was just trying to protect his island and was tricked by Eggman. Blaze wanted to retrieve the Sol Emeralds on her own. Shaodw gave a mad genius the keys to global domination and tricked him into destroying the entire world for revenge. That's pretty evil. Yes, he was driven by hate and vengeance, and was reformed in the end of SA2, but that doesn't change his actions. As for Surge and Kit, is it really a bad thing that Sonic wanted to try something different and learn more about his opponent?

[@Skeleton20133]

@@klaibornelorenzo6397 Yes it's a bad thing because Sonic doesn't do that. Shadow only helped them to atone for what he did, and he proved it by helping Sonic and the others in the end of Adventure 2. There were no speeches.

[@Skeleton20133]

@@AtomicoMacaco Except you're still objectively wrong.

[@cainyo7938]

People trying to have everyone be 21:27 relatable is awful. Turning Sonic and Egg man into something relatable is awful, especially if when most of the other characters are

[@Banana807]

Exactly, sonic and eggman are supposed to be more like metaphor kind of characters, they shouldnt be humanized to be more relatable

[@cainyo7938]

@Banana807 yup, Sonic was always an inspiration for me, and kinda sad to see him the way he is now cause he resembles teenage me more than he does sonic and the black knights

[@sskkyymine]

I do think you’re being a bit too harsh on the metal virus thing, you do have to remember that this is probably the most he’s had to think about not saving people via touch while also being under a lot of stress. If he stops moving for more than a minute to breathe he’ll turn into an unstoppable monster that will basically kill everything so I think some of those moments can be rationalised. Yea, him trying to force eggman to be something he’s not and being an arse to metal is out of character, but bro is also constantly dying and can’t have a normal interaction anymore without the other person keeping distance.

[@Ray-rg3qd]

I agree with most of the things you said, but why can’t bro feel grief

[@BigDripMike]

He probably does grieve, but to himself, he doesn’t show it to us (the viewers) or his friends

[@Ray-rg3qd]

@ what are your thoughts on Archie Sonic? I personally really like that that characterization of him wbu

[@LowQualitySpamtonDeltarune]

He can, but doesn't do it in public nor the player is allowed to see it

[@Ray-rg3qd]

@@BigDripMike my personal favorite characterization of sonic is black Knight, I really like what Flynn did for the character in Archie but it comes in second

[@FOOLYCOREY]

he does?? he just doesnt feel the need to show it. id imagine he feels sad that he might never physically see chip again at the end of unleashed but he just keeps smiling and goes for another adventure

[@YaBoiPhil]

The current writing for Sonic (mainly in the comics) suffers the same issues I have with the Live Action version of One Piece. Where Luffy wouldn't care about the morality of being a pirate or being a hero necessarily (despite his good nature), the Netflix show ditches that to the point where he flat out says "I'm a different kinda pirate". Hell, Shanks tells him to "Be Good" rather than to "be a great pirate" In an attempt to make these character more relatable, we lose that sense of nuance and subtlety that makes the character, themselves. It actively goes against the "free spirited" nature if youre gonna write them like an everyman.

[@JDog2656]

I disagree. Being good is what separates them from pirates like Kaido who in fact do whatever they want, but only hurt people for their own gain. Guys like Luffy and Sonic have their own moral code, a chaotic good if you will. They aren’t strict about what they do, nor is it an obligation. They do good things on a whim because it’s what they believe in at their core. The reason Luffy doesn’t consider himself to be a hero despite practically being one in all but name is because to him such a title is a chain that stifles his freedom. He’s not interested on people relying on him to solve all their problems. You ask for his help, he’ll help because he considers you a friend and friends help each other. If anything, Sonic and Luffy are the kind of heroes that surpass the likes of Superman or Spider-Man. They are essentially forces of nature who are unashamed of who they are and what they do, primarily because they are not actively trying to inspire or help out as a job. Its just who they are

[@TheLongtailed]

Damn, y'all complaining that Sonic grew up? yeah, look at that sonic rush cutscene *Beats the crap out of her* a bit overzealous are we? don't bite off more than you can chew, and be yourself! I'm sorry, i love blaze and the rush games, but there's no way that's good writing. it legit sounds like he's written by Ai or talking to a wall, she's defeated, this opponent might take away her one chance of getting the Sol emeralds Ian Flynn's writing is better, and you literally show a scene 6:53 were sonic is still this free adventurer that he always was, but now he has friends and responsibilities, and he has a duty now, he's no longer this lone adventurer who happens to run into Eggman, he has friends, and now, even if he doesn't like it, the world looks to him to solve problems, why wouldn't they? so obviously he matures to have to think about his actions i love his earlier characterizations as a lone adventurer, and that he's not a hero, but that's gone now, he's been at this too long for him to not have a responsibility to stop Eggman

[@BigDripMike]

Sonic as a character is someone who doesn’t “mature” he’s a static character, however there is a thing called flat character arcs, for example games like Unleashed and Black Knight executed this perfectly

[@ataladin87]

*"Sonic grew up"* He's 16 And ians writing is better than what exactly???

[@ataladin87]

6:53 shows him yapping which is ANOTHER issue with Flynns writing. And did you see Shadow gens?? Oh my lord, he's back to crying all over maria again.

[@nitronix2787]

​@@ataladin87 why does bro try arguing in every sonic vid 💀

[@ataladin87]

Hahahahahhahahahahahahhaha this paragraph is so badly laughable. Sonic The *"Free adventurer"* now has a *"Duty"* Do you even read your paragraphs.

[@jack.hammer.productions4554]

Dude you have the PERFECT voice for commentary. You got yourself a subscriber.

[@burbusburbus8782]

I'm confused on the mr tinker argument. You didnt bring up the issue where the entire point was sonic DIDN'T believe him, and continued to doubt him until his friends, who he has no reason to be suspicious of, said "we've been here a few days, hes not the same guy"

[@ataladin87]

@burbusburbus8782 how come you forget that when Shadow didn't believe in him, Sonic gaslight him when bringing up Shadow's past??? Game Sonic would never do that. In fact, Game Sonic would give Mr. Tinker Eggman's memory back as its only the right thing to do. Infact, Sonic would even go and give Goku back his real memories in dbz, hence unleashing Kakorot.

[@xdomeman]

​@@ataladin87I wouldn't call it gaslighting, just pointing out that Shadow was once in the same bout as "Mr. Tinker" since he also lost his memories at one point after he tried to destroy the world. Granted he eventually was convinced to save the world but still

[@ataladin87]

@xdomeman yeah, but still, that's a dick move on Sonic's part, especially when in Sonic battle, he reassures Shadow that he's a hero.

[@xdomeman]

@@ataladin87 well Sonic Battle is decades old before all of that. So as always I blame the writers for twisting Sonic this badly

[@burbusburbus8782]

@@ataladin87 1. Yes, dick move on sonic, but calling it "gaslighting" implies that shadow didn't do all of those things 2. Why are we talking about Goku?

[@JeysArcade]

Hey! I like the video! Keep up the great work

[@plusjustu1212]

Hey man, first I want to say that this is very well put together but I think you misunderstood what was happening in the Metal Virus Arc and what the point of it was. The main point of the scene was to show Sonic learning from his past actions. At the beginning of the arc, Sonic was basically patient zero. And later on, we see him straight up spreading the virus to others by accident in Sunset City when fighting there. In the panel you referenced where Sonic was doubting himself, he had just came across an abandoned city covered in metal virus while trying to both stave off his own virus and get data for Tails to cure the virus. The whole point of the panel was to show this dilemma. Also, the next pafe shows ignoring both options to attack Eggman instead, showing how he still makes the brash decisions he is known for. The situations you mentioned that "contradict" his character in this scene really don't. Almost everything you mentioned only had him at risk, while this had him choosing between a single person or the entire world. The main point of the arc, in my opinion, was to put Sonic in a situation he has never been in before. This situation being that he can't solve this problem without thinking. I know you feel Sonic should be a static character, but I as well as a lot of other people feel it is a good thing for his character to progress and the Metal Virus Arc is a great showcase of that.

[@plusjustu1212]

My comment before was getting pretty long so I cut it short but I agree that Sonic is way to preachy in the comics. However, I don't really hate it either aside from when he is interacting with Eggman in the Metal Virus Arc. I feel like it makes a lot of sense for what he is and describes him extremely well in almost every game that doesn't primarily focus on Eggman. With Eggman, I love the idea that both Sonic and Eggman both only keep each other around due to their boredom. Its a great dynamic that is also extremely unique.

[@0kdevv_]

There is no “real” sonic. It’s just what was and what is. This new modern sonic is still a stoic adventurer, he’s just more introspective and self reflective. He’s still an inspiration shown by his relationship with others, he just yaps more now. This type of personal drama could be due to western influence but he’s more popular over here now anyways, so I just see it as another layer.

[@yeeterbeater1938]

I don't understand your issue with the metal virus scene. That's not simple insecurity or lack of belief in oneself. He is at an objective crossroads. Tails cowers against Chaos 0 because he's scared. Amy runs away from Zero cuz she doesn't believe she can beat him. They are scared and insecure, & therefore do not act. This is not that, Sonic is not doubting himself or refusing to take action. In fact he takes immediate action in the same page when he sees Eggman. I don't think this is even Sonic being tired or stressed. This is him trying to act *smarter*. The Metal Virus forces Sonic not to act as reckless as usual, cuz he can (& DOES) end up hurting people. Which he would never want. I think Sonic is out of character in that arc, even that page I think could be done a bit more Sonic like. He should look less wimpy and sad and more frustrated. I don't even think he should be at a crossroads for more than a minute. After that his thoughts should be "Well I can't sit here and do nothing, whatever happens happens." But I fail to see how this is a betrayal of his character when the metal virus forces him not to act as freely, and he's seen the consequences of acting that way for most of the arc. Especially in that part of it. It's a very simple learning from his mistakes and doing better than he did previously. I don't think it's the same as Frontiers either. The cyber-corruption is only a detriment to Sonic. It is not a contagious virus. The more it spreads the more it hurts him and him alone. And he's always been content giving his life to others. What he doesn't want is to hurt people, and therefore just...thinks about the best choice. It is a very simple very basic thing literally any person & any character no matter how unique would do.

[@mscrystalhood]

0:21 Sonic would NOT act like this

[@ChristDTimix]

Sonic to me is somewhat like luffy from one piece loves freedom and right or wrong will do what "he" wants to deal with it Also sonic was actually never suppose to be cocky just confident there's a difference and a bit of an introvert

[@andarilho_31]

I think Sonic should be a little cocky and taunt his enemies, but not in a jokey manner.

[@BigDripMike]

W COMPARISON💯

[@Lonelysum]

​@@andarilho_31sonic in one of the manuals says he doesn't taunt enemies like calling eggman eggman as an insult

[@Lonelysum]

​@@andarilho_31but he can be cocky

[@CalebMasson]

Shouldn't that be the other way around? Sonic has been a thing longer than Monkey d goofy has.

[@IB_KIT]

My only problem with all these videos criticizing Sonic's characterization in IDW, they always use the issues from 2-4 years ago. No one really talks about if things have improved or anything about the recent arcs, its always the same screenshots, same panels and nothing about if the writers have taken the criticism to heart in the recent issues. I'm of the opinion that the recent Sonic Riders arc has dramatically improved in the way they write him, but I think you may be mostly attributing that to Evan Stanley rather than overall notes the whole lore team has been taking. Ian Flynn is not unaware of the criticism he's received and I do think going forward, we're going to see a less wordy, preachy sonic. I feel like that's already the case considering I don't ever see people bring up issues about Sonic's characterization in the comics post the imposter syndrome business with Surge, which again was in 2022/2023. Ian Flynn will be returning to write the comics starting with issue 76, so we'll be able to see for sure if he can carry on with the same kind of writing Evan has delivered so far.

[@BigDripMike]

Well I’ll believe it when I see it

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

​​​@@BigDripMike i think he already addressed these criticims about idw Sonic's characterization...in later issues post issue 50 both ian flynn and evan Stanley did address these major criticisms particular such as sonic being wordy and preachy or being a jokey kind of dude both of them addressed these criticims for the most part as for ian's part you will really start see the improvement in issue 67...and infact addressing atleast most of the Criticisms in that issue 67 sonic is less peachy and not a jokester and not messing around etc...like issue 67 was a massive improvement for Sonic's characterization from issue 50 for ian flynn's part...plus he already took the criticism several times even in his bumblekast podcast even to this day not too long he still get called for it just a few days ago so...he definitely is got the criticism and knows the fandom wasn't happy about this and start addressing it for awhile now and infact he's been addressing these criticisms for a year now!

[@johnsmith-ow3xs]

I'm honestly confused watching this. Sonic has always had quips, go back to literally every characterization of him all the way from the early 90s till now. It's not the quips that are the problem, its how often or how annoying they are. I agree that his characterization felt off for games like colors, lost world, and Forces, but that's more because the writing for those games sucked. Everyone felt off, not just Sonic. I think the Sonic you want sonic to be barely exists outside a hand full of games our early Japanese promotion material. Sorry buddy.

[@TronicSSJ07]

17:10 And after that, he says: “ *O* *N* *E* *!* “

[@AYTM1200]

90's & early 00's = Cocky and Confident. Late 00's = Confident and Heroic. 2010's = Cocky. 2020's = Cocky and Heroic.

[@cletonaltenor6626]

Sonic wasn't cocky in the 90s

[@Hewasnumber1]

@@cletonaltenor6626 He most definitely was, have you seen any of the commercials for the games or paid attention to how he behaved in the games? Sonic is impatient, cocky, and way past cool.

[@cletonaltenor6626]

@@Hewasnumber1 The American Localized Sonic Characterization is not the real Sonic.

[@Hewasnumber1]

@@cletonaltenor6626 Okay, then how do you explain the cockiness in the games themselves?

[@davidasilvaoliveira7781]

I see his current self as more of a more mature version of the character which makes sense since he's older

[@YaBoiPhil]

They don't have ages anymore, so that's obviously not the case nor really the intention of the writers, if you follow any of their social media/podcasts

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

​@@YaBoiPhil they don't have age... because they never age! Even if they retconned the ages they never aged physically but mentally it feels they are different.

[@KookyKot1880]

Sonic doesn't really have an age tho.

[@mastershifu-g2n]

​@@YaBoiPhil that doesnt mean that time dosnt pass and event that happen wont affect them?

[@yay29823]

​@@mastershifu-g2n I have no idea why that's the first conclusion people come to...

[@Barakon]

I kinda like IDW sonic, but I’m not a sonic fan so what do I know? I’m a rayman fan instead so I don’t mind the absurdity of it all.

[@أدهمالمبارك-ض8ن]

BRO THD CHAOS YES YES MORE I JUST LOVED THAT STUPID CHAOS AND HATE ON 0:27 TO 0:34, but to all due respect I liked that joke but liked the stupidity more from the comments

[@128bot]

Great video 👍

[@AkutagawaSan]

From a writing standpoint it's bad. Now from a personal standpoint you can like it. But just because you like something done wrong does mean you can't say the truth of the matter. They did not write sonic properly.

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

If you mean him being peachy and wordy as hell? yes..but his characterizations in IDW as in entirety as a whole? Nah.. it's good his character only has hiccups around those morality areas but now they actually addressed it i think his characterization is great.

[@AkutagawaSan]

@JakeThehedgehog-m1x If being peachy and wordy is caring about the quality of an established character then yes. But saying that is moronic. IDW did not do sonic right and the game sonic and the sacred rings also has sonic exhausted and suffering from excruciating pain and still able to hold his views and morals. The IDW comics ignored all of who sonic is to make him more like heroes like spider man.

[@joaquindiaz3621]

22:42 Not exactly the same, when sonic is the only one in danger he doesn't care, he rather be the one in danger than the whole world in danger, while in the metal virus he can't barely touch or stay still, he at least had time to both relax in unleashed, have someone at his side in secret rings and have the fake chaos emerald to avoid dying because that was quick thinking. While in the Metal Virus, most of those solutions were going through the drain and it was only when the Zeti got the emeralds and the topaz then he got a plan that worked thanks to silver

[@burbusburbus8782]

Unrelated to my actual problem, but the term "real sonic" shouldnt be thrown out too lightly. You're mostly saying "this is my favorite sonic", or, more accurately, "this is my ideal sonic" For the record, my ideal sonic is more theoretical. Its a venn diagram of 3 characters, goku, flash, and i know you've already made the comparsions, but spiderman. He shouldn't ever be just 1 of these characters, but should take inspiration from all of them. The humor and sass of spiderman (at least during a battle), the big heart of the flash, and although its a different interpretation, a broad application for "living for the thrill" can be applied to both sonic and Goku Hes a guy who is not actively looking for people to help, but when he sees one, hes Willing to just drop what hes doing to help. He's not one to play executioner, but that shouldnt be a moral code Closest thing ive had to that is black knight IDW sonic is... interesting. Sometimes, i think hes written pretty damn well. Sometimes, they drop the ball.

[@Eficiente_VSB]

I mostly agree. But, in the context of the Metal Virus bit, I disagree. He and everyone were suffering to a far greater degree. Over and over again people got lost forever, or had that come close to them. Everyone was in pain, and saw everyone else be in pain. It was quite a nightmare, even compared to other things.

[@myashykneecaps]

I like this take on the video i just think the metal virus arc I might be seeing it differently but how he acts like with him freezing up is out of character but it’s just a thought bubble. I get he wouldn’t hesitate like that but at the same time he can’t do things like he usually would since it would get other people (and environment) infected and I think either before or after this panel he’s been running around the whole time getting tired since he hasn’t rested. I only say this because Sonic doesn’t care about his life being in danger he just goes “Fuck it we ball” like he does in SA2, Secret Rings, Black Knight (I guess really all games). But when other people are at risk he does get worried it’s just different in certain media like Sonic X: He got angry when Chris and Cosmo were hurt by the Metarex and went Dark Sonic Sonic Battle: He had to take down Emerl because he would’ve destroyed the Earth (against his will) and afterwards had to hear his final words he was hurt because he really tried to bring him back to Earth to everyone. Eggman point was hella valid tho because like you said neither of them are gonna change how they do things. I also never realized people connect him Spider-Man but I can see it now because they did make him super quippy so that’s valid.

[@K.Bbluesword]

Ah yes, Sonic Chaotic good

[@mrlotobvious]

More like chaotic neutral now that think about it

[@Naruku2121]

@@mrlotobvious Yeah, I mean he'll save the world, but he isn't going around busting up random bank robberies even if he surely has the speed to pull it off.

[@idkmehboi1972]

Imo sonic is somewhat back to normal from frontiers i just hope they keep that energy

[@BigDripMike]

@@idkmehboi1972 I did enjoy some moments of his character

[@ataladin87]

He's literally not, but okay. Not saying frontiers was 100% bad, but it deffo butchered Amy's character.

[@ReDacTedUsEr-o1b]

Only part that captured his character is "the keep going with a smile" trope, 1 point to the team for including the easiest trait to give to a shonen-esque character

[@unkownunkown2420]

@@ataladin87he’s talking about sonic not Amy

[@ataladin87]

@@unkownunkown2420 in that case, Sonic is the worst he's even been.

[@kermit1015]

Some of what you said about who sonic’s character reminds me of movie sonic if that’s the same thing since that version of the character in the leader films heavily centers on action instead of reasoning maybe? Who knows correct me if I’m wrong

[@ataladin87]

@@kermit1015 except the 3rd film literally has him join the military to stop Shadow. So wrong.

[@HaughtyToast]

I don't think that panel from Spiderman is really comparable since Spiderman was contemplating stopping and Sonic was choosing a direction to go. Say what you will about IDW Sonic but he, at the very least, never stops taking action even when monologuing, since trying to change an enemies' mind is still at least attempting forward progress. I take issue with your analysis of those SA1 song lyrics, mainly because "Keep on running" isn't necessarily literal. I know it makes sense to think so since Sonic's whole thing is literal running but it's more like a way of saying "Don't stop trying, keep taking action." similar to "Just keep swimming" from Finding Nemo. It's his general attitude. There are aspects of Sonic's character that Ian nails and this is one of them. Again, IDW Sonic never truly stops when he has a goal in mind. Slows to consider things sometimes but he doesn't stop.

[@stellarmelody2784]

Yk i wanna to say thank you, thank you for clarifying this to make sense whos sonic is thank you because on Twitter there was a DEBATE between COCKY and CONFIDENCE yess i see some comment youtube saying SONIC IS NOT COCKY!! Your the person who tell the truth about who sonic really is then the person that want sonic to be and i just thank you

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

I genuinely disagree with your last points in the second part of your video sonic can still be cockyand abit egotistical,reckless,abit arrogant,calm,chill and laid-back, looking for adventures,free as the wind and do things in his own way and yet at the same time be a very positive and optimistic character the type of guy who never gives up no matter how dire the situation is always confident and believing himself even if things seems bleak..and always about live at the moment and don't worry about future and always moving forward and ofc most importantly be an inspiring character and changes people around him actions etc...like you get the point but at the same time I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with sonic showing emotions sometimes in some scenarios well...mostly to his friends again he can be all of that but at the same but have emotions too sometimes to his friends in some scenarios sometimes even sonic might need help and support too you know..

[@matthewtartt9422]

Sonic sounds annoying

[@AkeemReese]

BigDripMike does that mean you don’t like any of the live action sonic movies because he’s younger inexperienced and acts like an immature brat ? If so then maybe you shouldn’t watch sonic the hedgehog 3 next week and make a review on it.

[@BigDripMike]

@@AkeemReese no actually I like the live action Sonic films because they’re their own thing in their own continuity that doesn’t affect the main game Sonic, and I will see Movie 3 btw thank you

[@ataladin87]

@AkeemReese Sonic 3 literally has Sonic working with the government, that's deffo weird. But again, it aint cannon like IDW is supposed to be.

[@Naruku2121]

@@ataladin87 Technically...Sonic did cooperate with G.U.N during the events of Shadow the Hedgehog, but that's not a tangent I'm going to go on about. Instead, Movie Sonic doing it makes sense for his character, because he atleast got exposed to family system with Tom and Maddy, with Tom being a literal authority figure in the form of a cop, who this Sonic sees as a surrogate/adoptive Father. So this Sonic doesn't really have an issue with authority. But maybe throughout the film he'll learn the government isn't squeaky clean and forms his more idealistic mindset his game-counterpart has.

[@ataladin87]

@Naruku2121 again, Movie Sonic is something else. He's not even the wind like the game counterpart, so it doesn't matter. And wdym that HE listened I Shadow the Hedgehog??? What part???

[@Naruku2121]

@@ataladin87 I also acknowledged movie Sonic is his own distinct variation. As for your last comment I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But if you mean the part where Sonic teams up with G.U.N? Then it happens in the game Shadow the Hedgehog. It happens as early as the introductory stage in the game's first level Westopolis where you either choose a Neutral path for Shadow for the Chaos Emerald, an Evil Path with Doom's eye to destroy the G.U.N soldiers. Or side with Sonic for the Good path where you help Sonic protect G.U.N soldiers and destroy the Black Arms. Though to be fair he may not been enlisted in the manner as Movie Sonic was. But for all intents and purposes Sonic and the others were working with G.U.N to combat the Black Arms. Whether Shadow helped them or not.

[@nehen2225]

Cool video, I don't agree with the takes on Ian Flynn's writing but I do see where you come from with and I think the problem lays more in "show, don't tell", I agree with colors, lost world, generations and forces being bad depictions of the character (because the ones writing those games used wikipedia of all things to inform themselves about Sonic) though. The one thing I do have a problem is saying that Sonic is not a hero. It is true that being a hero isn't his thing, but he is heroic, in fact the scene you showed where he chose to rescue the parents from the dragon in the black knight is an example. Just because he doesn't see himself as a hero doesn't means he isn't considered one or that he doesn't acts like it. And his motive for stopping Eggman isn't really "he is messing with my fun" but more like "he will enslave everyone" which goes against what Sonic believes in, that being freedom. He might be an adventurous guy at his core, but denying that he also loves nature and wants to keep the world safe is not something I agree with.

[@ballooningen]

What’s that song in 2:51

[@BigDripMike]

Go Quickly - Sonic Runners

[@SonicTheHedgehogX15]

Youve earned a sub I agree wholeheartedly with you You and I know the true sonic

[@WillQuinn-rz3my]

I’ve just started the video, but I’d like to say what I think about Sonic’s “correct” characterization. Above all else, he should live for adventure. Doing whatever he wants is his purpose, regardless of what others think (see: It Doesn’t Matter). Sonic should also never be afraid of anything. Serious sometimes? Sure, great even. But he shouldn’t be uncertain, which is a problem I have with the snippets I’ve seen of the IDW comics. Regarding the Metal Virus arc, I once saw a comparison that said it was like putting Sonic in a Spider-Man situation. And my problem is that he was handling it like Spider-Man. Sonic should never not be doing something (during an important situation, I mean), his heart tells him he should do one thing and he does it without thinking about it. If your Sonic the Hedgehog isn’t following his own way, and grinning in the face of danger, then that’s not Sonic the Hedgehog. At least that’s how I see it.

[@BigDripMike]

See you get it!

[@Cat_animecrew]

Thank God I am not the only one who notice this

[@astrolord4325]

I can symphathize with not wanting to see more sides of your heroes or role models that humanize them. To keep the ideal image of a person you can strive towards, but that sometimes is not enough of an inspiration to act. You will never be sonic and you shouldn't be sonic. You are you, you can only surpass yourself. I like that we see this side of sonic, you can even call it the ugly side. He really was under too much pressure in metal virus arc and i think it was important to showcase. Relatability in this case is how stories mature. Maybe sonic should have stayed too cool from school guy. Maybe. But i would say he evolved rather than changed and is out of character. He is not invulnurable. Sonic was about to loose everything, everything he is about, freedom. In the games he constantly suceeded, you get ego boosts and confidence like that. Try to take L after L after L like in metal virus arc. I see it as reason enough to be a little grumpy. Comics showed him in light new light, new situations he couldnt control. Try to be yourself all the time and not frustrated, being unable to get a good night sleep for days constantly working, i dare you not to be hypocritical or even angry at people and act how you wouldnt normally. Just like how you showed in frontiers he can feel tired, hurt and still smile and save the day. That is inspirational. And to answer your question. The difference between metal virus arc and frontiers plot, was scale and how long it took. That aside. I do agree that we have seen sonic at his most "your sonic" self in riders arc, and it was awesome.

[@RedJo7]

Oh yeah this guy GETS IT!!

[@jamestolbert1856]

I think you’re talking too much crap on Ian Flynn. He’s a great writer for Sonic stories like in the Archie Comics and the Metal Virus in the IDW comics but yeah I don’t like how he’s written in the IDW continuity cause he’s too preachy and too much stereotypical. But I do like how his character is challenged during that arc. I love it when a flat or static character has his or her actions are persecuted

[@notarobber5387]

The quality of writing is not the problem. The problem is that it doesn't feel like Sonic. It works for Archie because Archie is its own thing. IDW on the other hand is canon to the games and directly contradicts the characterization of how Sonic originally was. Once again the writing could be great but if it doesn't feel like Sonic, then the story fails at being a Sonic story.

[@crimsonzone8984]

Dude, no one's talking crap on Ian Flynn. Not even in pariah's sonic comic video. Ian is a fine writer if he just does his own thing in his very own take. Although shadow gens is a big improvement.

[@ReDacTedUsEr-o1b]

He's more of a sonic historian than a writer imo, he just goes on and on about the ancients, the Babylonians, the echidnas, and fun little sonic trivia and references the 30 year old sonic fans find amusing. He also re-characterized everyone in Frontiers, he made Sonic gloomy, Amy being a platonic girl boss, Knuckles being a loud "rival" out of nowhere, Tails could've been written a bit better, he was ok, could've worked without the endless amount of references. Surprisingly, or unsurprisingly, Final Horizon was even worse. Frontiers' "story" is by far the weakest story in the whole franchise, not the best entry for the most glorified writer of the series.

[@jamestolbert1856]

I actually don’t mind Sonic showing vulnerability actually but not to the point where it loses his cool or is no longer the free spirited speedster. Sonic does whatever he wants if it’s in line with his character so why should there be restrictions to his character?

[@ReDacTedUsEr-o1b]

@@jamestolbert1856 Because that's not his character, simply put. But whenever he does show vulnerability it's just not done right, at least not recently. There's actually a moment in Battle where he does show some of that emotion and it's probably one of the best rare examples of that.

[@JustaPersonontheWeb]

There is no real Sonic, and I think it’s bizarre that while you say you don’t mind people liking modern interpretations, you still call your interpretation the “real Sonic”. In fact, I’m sorry to say this, but you are kind of gatekeeping and gaslighting people with this video. You claim there is a “correct Sonic”, when there is no correct interpretation. Some people like how Sonic was portrayed in Archie even though it contradicts the games. Some people like how Sonic is portrayed in the older games even though it contradicts the newer games. I could go on… You gate keep people saying that specific interpretations they like are out of character and downright awful, which alienates them from this series you based your whole channel off of. You aren’t doing any favors for anyone here. It’s fine to dislike how IDW and the modern writers are handling Sonic, but they are just as correct of interpretations as any other. Also, for some smaller points: -Just because Sonic doesn’t view himself as a hero doesn’t mean he isn’t one. As you said, whenever he sees bullying, robbing, or other bad things happening he won’t hesitate to help. That is the definition of heroic. Sure, he doesn’t go looking for people to save, but the fact that he helps whenever someone is in need proves that, while humble, Sonic is still a hero. -You took those IDW metal virus things drastically out of context. Sonic is having a legitimate breakdown after he let the Chaotix and villagers convince him Mr. Tinker was fine to be left alone, as well as letting Metal go free because he thought that Metal couldn’t do much now without Eggman. Pair this with Sonic being infected by a disease caused by his own inaction that will turn anyone he touches into a mindless monster as well as himself if he doesn’t keep running, and he ends up being tired and angry at this moment. Is it that weird for him to be asking these questions when he’s struggling mentally? Maybe for your “correct Sonic”, but as I stated earlier your “correct Sonic” is just as correct as anyone else’s. -How was Sonic not being rational during the Blaze cutscene? He told her he didn’t want to fight prior but that he would if that was what she wanted. He does say some weird phrases after the fight but he still attempts to make peace with someone who he saw prior wasn’t a bad person. Maybe I’d understand if it was Shadow instead of Blaze, but as is I just don’t get your point here. -Sonic not jumping to fight doesn’t make him look weak. Sure, he doesn’t try to beat up Sage, but he always takes down whatever she throws at him. Weakness and restraint are two very different things. -For that IDW panel you love hating so much, are you sure you read it in context? Sonic has been running. For a while. He’s tired. Everything that applied to the first IDW metal virus points I made apply here too. Also, the “It Doesn’t Matter” lyrics being used as an example don’t add anything to this. He just says he’ll never give up the fight, which is not something he was questioning during that panel. The 06 line does show a contradiction… in the way you consider the “true Sonic” to be. -The Spider-Man panel is nothing like the Sonic panel. As stated prior, Sonic isn’t considering giving up on that panel. He’s considering two different paths, neither of which are “who cares I’m done”. Spider-Man is considering giving up. Two different circumstances. Your attempted point here is null. -All near death experiences you mention when trying to say the IDW panel is bad are different in one key context: Sonic is the only one in immediate danger there, and his actions don’t immediately determine another person’s fate. When Sonic is launched out of the Ark, he is the only one in immediate danger. When Sonic is fleeing the “black hole” he is the only one in immediate danger. When Sonic is nearly dead of the corruption in Frontiers he is the only one with the corruption and can’t spread it to anyone else. In the IDW panel Sonic is worried about others who are in immediate danger, especially since instead of just dying like the corruption in Frontiers, Sonic would become a ruthless mindless monster if he was consumed by the metal virus. Well, that took a while… I know I’ve been extremely critical here, but I want you to know that I do like your interpretation of Sonic. I just wish you would admit it isn’t any more real than any other Sonic interpretation.

[@Gage-p2c]

I think the whole doubting himself is from the forgotten fact that if Sonic fails to help the people, he's just making the entire situation worse, and when he already does that, he just tries with what he has left to use.

[@Sonic-q6i]

Also why would sonic just fight surge instead of trying to reason with her he's experienced shadow knuckles jet and silver these guys have motifs of why they fight him idw and frontiers are more mature takes in sonic if you don't get that then you don't get why he'd try to reason with surge

[@Sonic-q6i]

It's totally unreasonable for sonic to try and reason with surge a person who's been brainwashed to fight sonic forced to fight with no will of her own she was created in a lab died multiple times in tests starline put her through only surviving because of being an artificial living being .sonic wants to help her on the right path like a parent

[@moathalmaghlouth8262]

@@Sonic-q6isonic just didn’t know he just saw her as just someone who wanted to fight

[@ataladin87]

Why would he reason??m that's just not his character. When Knuckles attacked him in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, did he try to reason??? Or when did he see Shadow and Silver???. No, he'd fight 1st, and then maybe ask some question.

[@trainerred6990]

​@@ataladin87 i think you didn't understand Sonic-q6i comment, he meant that experience with Shadow, Silver and Blaze made Sonic realise if he tried to talk there no need to beat every obstacle on his way.

[@ataladin87]

@trainerred6990 again, that's just not who he is. What, should knuckles rationalize as well because he met Amy??

[@letsgorift]

You should do one on shadow two😢

[@Mobok06]

One thing its not a black hole!😂

[@Donatas-rp5yf]

Oh Wow😮😮

[@czms922]

Mfs expected sonic to be calm headed when it wasn't just him at stack it's his entire world is literally going to die

[@czms922]

19:19 not even remotely the same what😭 Spider-Man is fending for his life, sonic running is the only thing keeping the virus spreading

[@cletonaltenor6626]

Yes? Sonic does NOT lose his cool easily. We've been in this situation time and again when the world was at stake. Sonics reaction is wrong because Sonic doesn't consider the ODDS when faced with adversity, he just does what he has to do, that's all.

[@33pandagamer]

I get your point. To me, he seems like a guy who represses his emotions. When he feels pain, when he feels sad, he doesn't want anyone to know, so he just smiles. While I do like when he is like this, I also like when he lets himself feel his emotions instead of bottling them up. I think a balance is to be made here. Like maybe when he is near people, he doesn't let anyone know he's in pain, but when he's alone, that's when he lets himself express his pain. Maybe not outright stating it, but expressing it in a more subtle way. Honestly, I'd just wish they would address Sonic's tendency to repress his emotions instead of pretending that it isn't there.

[@Wingsoffayt]

I think the best showing of Sonic showing vulnerability is sonic adventure 2. He waits til he’s alone to show grief, and his only way he showed grief was simply by saying “sayonara” to shadow, only for him to blow it off when Amy starts talking to him

[@Sonic-q6i]

What's funny is that you said something about sonic helping people in need is something that Ian flyn also kept intacked i don't see how ian's writing damaged sonic himself

[@ataladin87]

You gonna forget that Ian gave sonic a no kill code??? And how he's pestering eggman for change???

[@xdomeman]

Accept that he also decided to give Sonic a no kill code, which he never had before, along with dumbing down his intelligence (not thinking being in a body of water with a rival that could control electricity was dangerous)

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

​​@@xdomeman ok... that was evan not ian you talking about issue 56 right? That was evan Stanley writing that issue not ian and not just sonic really everyone feels watered down and nerfed like inconsistent in powerlevel if you will...and sonic is a victim of that too.

[@xdomeman]

@ exactly the point I’m making

[@ataladin87]

@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x Ian is head writer, meaning everything is through him 1st.

[@StardustDragonZ]

I legit never noticed the Spidermanization of Sonic till now. Yet current Sonic (in IDW) always felt off to me in a way.

[@VincentEternal]

Well look who it is 6:45

[@PyroMaker3]

look who smells bad

[@VincentEternal]

@ hey you’re the target here not me.

[@PyroMaker3]

@@VincentEternal u still smell u dogwater plant

[@ataladin87]

So you're the one who wrote that rubbish on twitter.

[@VincentEternal]

@@ataladin87 I’m the one who said that people comparing idw Sonic to superheroes shows me that most people don’t actually read superhero comics.

[@somerandomguy7325]

So what? Is that Sonic badly written or?

[@Lonely_Scott_Pilgrim]

Got to bring the 90’s Sonic attitude back

[@Maximum4power]

I personally love both of the Japanese and American iterations of Sonic :)

[@buttercat1331]

Did the video seriously start by implying that the whole reason you made the video was because twitter disagreed with you?

[@TheSultan1470]

Sure, why not?

[@buttercat1331]

@@TheSultan1470 i guess it just feels like he was more interested in twitter hot takes than in analysing the character. At least to me, that intro made it seem like the guy doesn't really care for or believe whatever he said afterwards and just made it all because he felt petty about kids giving him ratios or something idk, the video just seems pointless and like it shouldn't really be taken seriously

[@Burgerbro7117]

You perfectly put into words what I've been feeling!

[@the120cxx]

Often wonder if there's any kind of way to reconcile this fundamental difference between the original Japanese interpretation &the western variations that have been made over the years, you could probably ride a story about then in enough itself in a way I've actually thought about it a bit in terms of a version of a sonic continuity with a version of Sonic that kind of has to contend with these different personas. But that's for a story idea that probably could have been a fan fiction or something if I was into that sort of thing. Would be, always wanted to do a sort of amalgamation continuity of sorts.

[@trashboat5388]

SA2 already did that

[@realer2748]

damn, i miss sonic

[@Marco-qo2db]

I think Sonic is relatable in his own way. He's a chill teenager that likes to run, but he's not afraid to stand up for what he believes. He's young, wild and free, that's why I believe he is relatable. I'm not a native english speaker, so I hope I could articulate my thoughts fine.

[@Toysonicandfriends2-1991]

(Sonic) I was getting tired that why I wasn’t running so they I wasn’t Being stupid

[@SonicTheHedgehogX15]

24:52 this is why i think evan stanley shoulve been main writer instead of ian Evan actually knows sonic

[@Ray-y2r8z]

for the sonic frontiers part. are you really going to tell me that sonic is going to beat up a child?

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

My only issue isn't that how interact with sage the issue i have is that how the hell did he know she wasn't even the bad person and evil one here? Like i am questioning to this day... how did he know? everything else was good i nearly enjoyed every moment of him in frontiers.

[@Ray-y2r8z]

@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x my headcanon is that it was just his gutfeeling that theres more to it (and also the fact that its an child to)which ended up working in the end(replaying the game I noticed atleast sage starts opening up more and more with sonic to if you do her side missions especially on the third island).

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

To be fare Both Sonic and Spiderman despite being jokesters have a lot of depth to them when portrayed well.

[@BigDripMike]

(Game) Sonic isn’t a jokester tho

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

@ He literally came up with the name Eggman.

[@BigDripMike]

@@samuelrodriguez9801well not necessarily it was a mistranslation from the English dubbing of Sonic Adventure 1, Eggman’s name has always been Dr. Eggman, but they just rode with the whole “Sonic giving him a nickname” thing

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

@@BigDripMike Remember when he was making fun of him saying: "Wow a giant talking egg!"

[@BigDripMike]

that’s a mistranslation

[@RocketPunkArt]

Here's the thing. I tend to also compare Sonic to Spidey, but I don't think that's for the same reasons as you mentioned. Sonic would be the type of guy to drive you crazy while waiting for an opening to give you the punishing blow. That may not be with jokes, but simply just run around you, but basically, he's the one who'd want to create an opening. As for his overall personality, he's a teenager who values his freedom to the highest degree and fights for what he thinks is rightn abd he was created in the early 90's: basically he's a punk. But the 2010's forgot about that punk rock attitude in favor of... whatever he became. That's such a shame!

[@lightingdragon4143]

Ian Flynn is ruining sonic. He doesn't understand Sonic's character, and I'm so sick of Ian Flynn stans constantly gaslighting and insulting anyone who rightfully call out Flynn's terrible writting and characterization of Sonic. Also it was stated that Flynn's favorite Sonic game was sonic colors. That alone should tell you enough.

[@lemon5000-tj6nv]

He better be talking about the Japanese version….

[@lightingdragon4143]

@lemon5000-tj6nv Nope

[@A_dude_obsessed_with_rabbits]

Why is it a bad thing that Ian likes colors? It’s a fun game

[@lightingdragon4143]

@@A_dude_obsessed_with_rabbits Dude did you even watch the video? The problem with Sonic colors being Flynn's favorite game is the Sonic colors have terrible characterization for Sonic. Flynn never liked Sonic he liked Archie Sonic and writes IDW Sonic like he did back in Archie. Thank God Sega made all those mandates because god knows what Flynn would have done.

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

Barely any substance to your argument here buddy.

[@God-xd1wr]

The problems all started with the writing changing to being officially done in America to “appeal to American audiences”. But if y’all aren’t ready for that conversation, the problem, if we ignore Pontac and Graff, is Ian Flynn’s attachment to the past and his writing being as subtle as a brick wall. See, Ian Flynn was likely told that Sonic’s whole thing is about freedom, and he went on to write IDW Sonic as being arrogant and having a hero complex, showcasing a character who makes choices _for_ other people and “gives them freedom” at the expense of their happiness. In the games, specifically Sonic Frontiers, Sonic is written as this idealistic hero who’s “too trusting” (when that’s supposed to be Knuckles’ problem), suddenly elaborates way more on everything he says, and somehow _still_ feels like he’s _trying_ to be cool. Amy, Knuckles, and Tails have more to say which is good, except for the fact they have the same character arcs as in Sonic Adventure, this time shown through Sonic being a therapist rather than anyone learning anything _for themselves._ Shadow is the worst of this problem, having his character _reverted_ back to where he was at the end of Sonic Adventure 2, at the expense of his character arc in Shadow the Hedgehog and where he was in Sonic ‘06. Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2 learned to let go of his anger and to do what Maria would’ve wanted. Shadow in his 2005 game realised he hasn’t been doing anything for himself, and in the Final Story, finally decides to live for himself and leaves Maria in the past. On one hand, Ian definitely cares about these characters and their dynamics, but on the other hand, he’s clearly trying to inject his own interests and his headcanons into these stories at the expense of the characters themselves and the company who owns them. Pontac and Graff also said the same things as Ian, that they had very little say on what happens with these characters. And while that makes it sound like SEGA’s being too harsh on their writing team, you should realise that the Japanese-written games from 1998 to 2009 only had this kind of issue _one_ time and that was with Sonic ‘06’s rushed story, the biggest character issue there simply being Sonic’s toned down personality. The Japanese writers very clearly understood that these aren’t their own characters and they have to understand and respect the intention of these games and stories and the directions these characters are supposed to be heading. They even had more things going on because of it, Amy and Sonic slowly warm up to each other throughout these games until Amy asks Sonic out on a date in Sonic Unleashed, and in Sonic and the Black Knight, they apparently had a date that Sonic missed out on.

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

I swear...TO GOD!!! in frontiers they didn't go through the same arc in sa1(except tails it was more like an redemption arc form him if anything) the contexts are different...like Forexample Amy wants to find herself and figure out what she wants to do originally...in SA1 she wanted to become independent and gain sonic's respect again... context is different Also when you say Japanese writers understood the lse characters aren't theirs and respect the intentions of the games and stories and direction these characters suppose to be heading etc... Didn't ian do just that for games like frontiers atleast? Writing the characters in a way to actually match with the somber tone and direction of the game's story that sonic team was aiming for? Including with the direction of the characters and where they heading moving forward. Because remember! He only write the dialogues for the characters Story,tone, concept is all done by sonic team. As for idw sonic sure he can be abit annoying with him being preachy and the morality of him and being lenient well atleast towards Eggman and metal sonic yes i agree but i don't remember a single time he actually made decisions for others im pretty sure even in his yapping in issue 50 he said he wants to make their own choices and decisions in their life and he did it with surge so i don't remember he made choices for others like he's the boss of them or something. And in Frontiers in the majority of the story he was nowhere near like an idealist hero or anything he's just the protagonist focused on saving his friends like how he normally would even back in 2000's. While i agree with shadow's part but there's still just so much issues with your comment here.

[@JDog2656]

I disagree about Shadow. I believe it was necessary to renew Shadows story with Generations. They haven’t done anything legitimately good with him since 06, and what they have done is reduce to an edgelord cameo. They don’t have to bring up Maria all the time or anything, but past or not, it’s a core part of his story. His promise to her is how he lives his life now, but now it’s his own oath. It’s not a backpedal to the character, but a renewal of what made him who he is today.

[@nazeirsvibingandstuff769]

To be honest i don't like it how he was portray to be at all sonic the hedgehog that way at all he is not a superhero or hes spider man but hes because hes runs fast or have villains and side character doesn't consider him a superhero he doesn't necessarily care about that crap but to be honest i find him relatable because of his determination and free spirit but seeing him makes me wanted to be like I'm talking about dressing up as sonic but be like him by learning to stop worrying about the ocstacles, about the right thing not as a superhero but just doing the right not because you feel like it but makes you feel self worth and most of all integrity thats what makes sonic the coolest but more of a inspiration.

[@Matthew-ls7rv]

Sonic twitter is crazy

[@nicholasaugello2534]

I gotta say Sonic Really did become something he wasn't originally intended to be and it's kind of a shame but I felt like i did like both interpretations of Sonic but that Role model Sonic is just so radical to me... I never took the time to really let anything he said or did that seriously till 5 years ago and looking back yeah he's slightly different. And yet still feels like Sonic.

[@lordrealashemtov5818]

It not sonic i hate it

[@Kian-p7s]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3q3qYGPa9KWobssi=m5hFUwZXtz6jvhF7

[@cynicalfella]

By all means, My Favorite Characterization of Sonic was when he was Cool. Sonic now is either Goofy, or too Human and It's weird because Sonic was cool because of how unhuman every character was, Like, He had no reason to be so cool, But It's Super Sonic Time SO LET'S FUCKIN GO

[@Thatman615]

Alot of new gen alpha fans were introduced to sonic through colors, boom, and yes...even the paramount films...🙄so, that's probably where many of these "sonic is like spidey" comparisons came from. From what i've observed, they don't understand sonics actual character. When confronted by older, more knowledgeable fans that are from gen z or gen x, most of them feel like being educated on simple facts, is an attack on what they grew up with. When properly educated on who sonic actually is, they think that he's boring, and shouldn't be that way. They think, that he should "grow" and be more relatable😂 what they're asking for is a different character. It's too difficult for them to accept, that they've been viewing game sonic all wrong. So, they choose to remain ignorant. This is what happens when you're not consistent, and you keep changing the direction of your franchise. New takes on sonic, equals more ways for new fans to get introduced to him. And that in of itself, is a double edged sword.

[@BigDripMike]

@@Thatman615 I wouldn’t say that it’s a generational thing, because some adults tend to misunderstand the concept on the true original characterization of Sonic the Hedgehog there’s no one to blame but Sega’s poor localization throughout the 2010s and now

[@Thatman615]

@@BigDripMike Well, yeah. That's true. Even some older fans misunderstood sonics character. I was just specifically talking about the newer fans that have, and why they do, based off of what i've seen. But, I do agree. It's largely due to sonics incredibly messy localization that's been an issue since from the start.

[@dug1115]

Thank you! I've been saying this for years (I vastly prefer early 2000's Sonic over Ian Flynn Sonic) but there is a subset of Sonic fans that mob me and tell me to shut up. It happens when anyone, not just me, speaks out or criticizes Ian Flynns portrayal of sonic (comic's or games). It's almost like half of the community is a cult.

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

15:10 actually i disagree sometimes being careful and actually have a plan and thought-out about what you gonna do next in a bad situation considering the fact...YOU ARE LITERALLY IN A MIDDLE OF A WORLD WIDE CRISIS OF ZOMBOT WHICH IT ACTUALLY AFFECTED SILVER'S FUTURE ASWELL!!! it's not out of place or out of character for sonic to actually being careful about what he's gonna do next because if he mess up it's game over.. Now you could make the argument that sonic is cocky and run into something without thinking about it he just do it....but let me ask you this how many times did this dude gotten his ass handed to him because of his cockiness and recklessness? In sonic unleashed he was too reckless and leave himself wide open in his super form only to fet tricked by eggman de-transform him into his base form and proceed to turn him into a Werehog and crahed to the earth In lost world recklessly kick the conch out of Eggman's hand and didn't listen to tails only them end up being retreat from the deadly six In frontiers he literally gotten his ass handed to him by being reckless because he thought he can take giganto on in base form.. And more. Like this dude...gotten his ass handed to him and caught off guard several times in a row!! and if he does keep repeating the same mistake then there's no improvement here!! So i think it's good and refreshing sometimes he being more careful specially in a situation when things are dire and really messed up so it's not out of character for him to actually have a strategy and have a plan what to do next when things get really bad and just overall being more careful. 17:18 the example you are using is flawed here and the context is different here sonic is basically optimistic and keep moving forward and stay on what happens now aka stick with present just like he does that in frontiers. In issue 23 it's different he has to be careful because if he make another screw up again like i said it's over the contexts are different here!

[@Lonelysum]

He doesn't have room to grow as a character cause he's always meant to be cocky

[@TheTaintedOne]

Im reading some of these comments and im convinced sonic fans hate sonic more than eggman at this point

[@twostarling8348]

Yeah the thing is, Sonic was meant to be cool on the 90s. Then changed it to be cool on the 2000s, and again in the shitty 2010s, and now they're changing it to be Sonic, his own character

[@dug1115]

Is it really his own character though? Consider how every character Ian wrights feels the same, I'm stating to think that Sonic might just be his mouth piece.

[@chemostar2361]

does anyone ever tell you you sound like obama?