The Day-One Bug that Changed Fallout New Vegas Canon

Fallout New Vegas is very good! Which is why I'm kinda surprised that this bug, small as it seems, never got fixed. Then again we live in the world where skyrim still has some day one bugs in it despite like 11 releases.
Thank you for giving me the space to air a near 13 year long personal frustration.
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My Links:
/ krosencreutz
/ rosencreutz
______________________________________
Thanks to @hbomberguy for some of the inspiration (and justification)
Here's the mod I use, though there are a few you can shop around with. I've heard the unofficial patch might work too, and I think Tale of Two Wastelands settles the issue (or maybe makes it worse tbh)
www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mo...
I think the distinction in the mods is between how they interact with other features or try and clean up more texture issues, etc.
____________________________________________________________
Time
00:00 intro
04:05 This stupid bug matters
09:34 outro

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Use the independent fallout wiki for all your search needs. (Fandom/wikia does not deserve your views and it's a terrible experience anyway) fallout.wiki/wiki/Fallout_Wiki

[@goodsirbear-7579]

I was on the fandom and I was like "there's no way that fallout doesn't have an amazing independent wiki" so I looked it up and low and behold

[@houndofculann1793]

@@goodsirbear-7579 lo and behold*

[@someone24688]

I'm free

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Much appreciated. Was womderomg why there isn't the equivalent of UESP for Fallout.

[@SomeBraveApollo]

that wiki only exists because the control freak who created it got banned by fandom for ruining the popular fallout wiki (and for having inapparopriate, controlling influence over other wiki users via discord)

[@reycore3608]

Initially, I thought that half of the chairmen were supposed to wear white suits, while the other half black. That way, Benny's white-and-black checkered suit would indicate his high status among the chairmen.

[@graetestfanever1]

Ok, hear me out. The higher ups wear black, the lower guys wear white. Benny, being the smug prick that he is, wears a suit that has both. Both to be different, but also to show hes the boss of everyone.

[@rintoul4045]

get this man a job at bethesda

[@TheLateLordKardok]

Everyone is Two-Face.

[@ryantalley5284]

​@@graetestfanever1bro stfu and accept that it's a bug

[@elijahbowen1599]

​@@rintoul4045obsidian* We don't like Bethesda in this comment section

[@TheD3rp2]

This reminds me of how you can find "strange meat" pies in the Sloan cafeteria, presumably because an environment designer didn't look too closely at the ID of the object they were placing. At least, I don't think Obsidian intended for an entire settlement to be casually consuming human flesh with no way for the player to comment on it.

[@Rosencreutzzz]

I'm mentally bookmarking this next to the "irons" in the iron mine I mentioned in another comment. I love details like that.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

​@@Rosencreutzzz Please make more videos like this one, strange meat in sloan could be one of those videos. I'm not angry at Obsidian, I still think NV best game but I somehow got joy from watching this video

[@FancyPurpleGoose]

pretend its deathclaw meat

[@CallofDutyBlackOps28]

@@Rosencreutzzz i just like to think someone named it the iron mine because someone's long forgotten store shipment of irons got lost, like the shipment of stealth boys one.

[@mostdefinitelyahumanandnot2884]

Don't forget the strange meat in Mick and Ralphs!

[@InvisibleYogurt]

in Fallout 1, Dogmeat's AI would cause him to reliably run into electric force fields and die. This eventually became his canon fate in Fallout 2.

[@lazyliongames6660]

Aw man poor dogmeat

[@Jules-69lol]

Fallout Et Tu has ending slides for your companions and if you keep Dogmeat alive his fate is so sweet and wholesome

[@jessemarkham6887]

lmao

[@OfficerRay101]

I have 3000 hours in New Vegas and had zero clue that this was a thing

[@nrs8723]

I too never noticed that this was a bug

[@oldschoolghoul3660]

I never seen the chairmans wearing the black suit

[@OfficerRay101]

@@ReachTea The game has been out for 13 years lol. I played almost every day for about 5 years after my brother who introduced me to the franchise passed. In late high school I slowed down and just began to play it on and off when I wasn’t hanging out with friends. Now I just play it whenever I get the itch. I have about 1000 hours in Fallout 3 as well.

[@MrBioniclefan1]

I have far fewer hours in the game and I didn’t even know this lol

[@8bits143]

​@@OfficerRay101 enlighten us with some of your wisdom, new vegas sage

[@BrigitteEmpire]

I played New Vegas on Xbox 360 so my main enemy on the strip was the 5 minute long loading screens every 3 seconds

[@Rosencreutzzz]

the 45 minutes of loading for every hour of playtime are why there's so many trans women that played FNV-- the game just gave you a lot of down time to be in your own head and start *questioning* things

[@BrigitteEmpire]

@@Rosencreutzzz this is science

[@Fickets]

Delete your old saves. That was how you fixed the 45 minute long losing screens in Oblivion.

[@nighteye4042]

@@Rosencreutzzz I like this theory, sharing it with my trans friends

[@solarolli1951]

@@SMBDelse Be a better person.

[@mileator]

In Borderlands 2, Tiny Tina has a bug, where her left eye, will lose focus and wander. Developers later opted to make it canon, rather than fix the bug, stating that she has a lazy eye.

[@duffman18]

Surely it's an eye that stays still all the time, that would be the lazy one, and an eye that wanders around loads, like a runner goes running most days, is the opposite?

[@callsignapollo_]

​@duffman18 an eye is considered "lazy" whenever it doesn't focus with the other, because it often has weaker, underdeveloped optic muscles. This is why minor drift can be corrected by using only that eye to train it to focus

[@sarahhenley9808]

@@duffman18 I have a lazy eye and it does take a bit more effort to focus it than my normal eye does. So the drift does feel pretty lazy

[@sarahh08]

hilarious bug mind you, love visiting her and seeing her frog eyes stare at me

[@larsthedude1984]

I find Borderlands’ worldbuilding and characters criminally underrated. I’ve played through 2 and 3 + all their DLCs with my buddy and it makes me sad the whole game series’ writing and setting gets written off because of a few Reddit jokes. ):

[@memyselfishness]

Knowing that Daniel in Honest Hearts was supposed to be the Asian race model but released as Caucasian, it doesn't surprise me that this was missed. One (or a few) of the many writers or designers created this interesting detail, but those who were in the know weren't paying enough attention to realize the mistake. There are other New Vegas bugs where patching it for the hardware at the time was nigh impossible and just had to be left in. It's quite possible that this is the symptom of a larger bug.

[@Rosencreutzzz]

I once spent like 3 hours trying to find it and failed but I *swear* there's a mine somewhere in Skyrim that's an iron mine, and in one of the carts in the mine is a load of irons. Like. Clothing irons. Someone was probably populating the space with stuff and just clicked the first "iron" they saw listed and plopped them down. I refuse to believe this was a fever dream, but I still haven't found it yet. I might have to just manually check them all. Worst case scenario it was sneakily added by a mod and I was bamboozled. Uhh, point being, I can absolutely imagine things get broken somewhere in the vision-to-assets-to-placement pipeline quite a lot.

[@etepeteseat7424]

I haven't played Skyrim in about a decade, but I'm pretty sure I remember that mine, lol.

[@qwopiretyu]

​@@etepeteseat7424 let's go searching

[@yoshilovesyoshi]

Wow wtf, that would completely change the whole vibe for Daniel and the New Canaanites. Like what if I was supposed to be seeing a bunch of Roof Koreans in Colorado, but I got a bunch of guys from Battalion 534? I feel like the vibe would be completely different. But I think Daniel's and Joshua Graham's character contrasts still ring deep, whether they're Mormons or not.

[@shadowsofpain]

​@Yoshi Maeda I think the biggest issue with Daniel being Caucasian has to do with it metatextual narrative. Both of the surviving New Canaanites being white tells you by visual context that New Canaan was likely an all white settlement vs is Daniel was Asian which would imply it as multicultural. That's important because having both sides of the conflict in zion be about white saviors coming to "save the ignorant tribals" is terrible. It turns Honest hearts into "white man's burden" the expansion no matter how you look at it

[@akumu9188]

imo the white fits the chairmen better and it makes them match Benney's suit. If anything they should have had the Omertas wear the all black suits since it fits their mobster aesthetic. Just look at 3:53 and tell me that they don't look like some guys going to "disappear" someone who didn't pay their protection money that month.

[@yoshilovesyoshi]

Oh yeah fr, that sounds kinda right tbh. Especially since the hats of people in the 40's and 50's would generally match colors with their outfit, I always felt like the Omertas outfit was bugged in some way. Like Black hat should equal Black suit right?

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Pretty sure someone is already on some sort of "Omertas wear black" mod. I mean, after someone released a mod that makes the enclave officer gloves smaller and more realistic it took less than a day for someone to do the opposite and make them ridiculously gigantic.

[@turtleman6854]

I agree. However here's a little fun fact about the mafia. They don't make you "disappear" for not paying protection for that month as that not only would bring unnecessary heat but it would also hurt the business in the long run. They would, however, beat the tee total shit out of them.

[@mightystu49]

Not at all. The Chairmen are based off of the Rat Pack who always wore black suits, and mobsters were known for wearing pinstripes like the Omertas do. Mobsters often wore more ostentatious outfits and weren't really classy so much as gaudy, whereas the Rat Pack guys went for more of a "class act" kind of look.

[@AsifIcarebear3]

For 3/4ths of the video I thought the error was that they wore black suits when they were supposed to wear white suits to match Benny.

[@zoltar0205]

I feel like the omertas should be the ones wearing the grimy suits as I feel like the darker outfit suits them a lot more since they have darker plans and have a more grimy casino while the chairman are a lot more light hearted so the lighter suit suits them more

[@GoreGutztheImpaler]

That is true, however if i were making a game I wouldn't have a group of people wear black in a not very well lit dark colored building.

[@VynalDerp]

@@GoreGutztheImpaler When I first played New Vegas I'd honestly agree. I struggled navigating all of the casinos and frankly, having bright white suits in a bright white casino made it difficult to actually see people at terrible resolution. I still recall my surprised pikachu face when I found out the hard way Benny had an escort. But, in hindsight, and with a better PC, I don't think it would be any worse to give Omertas dark suits than it is to give Chairmen white suits. Both color schemes actually match their respective casinos that way, as well as matches the story that plays out in each casino better imo.

[@scorchercast8366]

There supposed to be liers and back stabbers. Why would they dress obviously evil if they need people to trust them so they can later betray them?

[@Kujo999]

Not fallout but in Skyrim, remember how giants can launch you into the sky? Yeah, that's not an added effect, it's actually a bug that was left in because devs found it hilarious.

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Same with the thing where mammoths randomly spawn at sky height and plummet to their death. That one's more obviously a bug, but it's also one they knowingly kept in for humor, and tbh I agree, good call.

[@johnfraire6931]

​@@Rosencreutzzz "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was _Oh no, not again."_

[@chaserseven2886]

Not fallout or Skyrim but gta 4 has a big where a swing set will launch you but the devs fixed but fans complained and they put it back in

[@mixererunio1757]

The game is incredibly detailed and nuanced. But it was also incredibly rushed.

[@2-bit567]

From what I've read, they started full development of FO3 after the release of Shivering Isles. So, it looks like 3 and NV had roughly the same dev time, which is a yikes imo.

[@TheK2rla]

​@@2-bit567full development started after shivering isles yes, but fallout 3 had been in development since 2004.

[@2-bit567]

@@TheK2rla Do you mea Van Burren?

[@TheK2rla]

@@2-bit567 No, Bethesda started working on Fallout 3 in 2004, before that Black Isle Studios was working on Van Buren until the IP was bought.

[@RagingBadger68]

⁠​⁠@@2-bit567the Wikipedia page for Fallout 3 says the game was built from scratch, not using Van Buren’s code, beginning in July 2004 but full development began after Oblivion’s lifecycle completed

[@CharmyTTS]

I remember hearing that the devs never really did patches to address issues like this, similarly to the reason they never implemented DLC content and characters back into the base game, was the fact that users would be forced to re-download the entire games BSM files just to change 1 or 2 things in the base game

[@TheWinjin]

Makes sense! The game was quite big at the time, and iirc after the release they had to fix everything, and Bethesda also cheated them of money by stating that they did worse than expected on launch so they'd get less money. Probably that kind of thing crushes any will to change really small things. After all, there's already a mod for that, what's the point of bothering if some player already fixed it, let him has his moment.

[@skeletonbuyingpealts7134]

​@@TheWinjinThat never happened.

[@Tabako-san]

As far I know too, to push a patch on consoles developers had to pay Sony and Microsoft up to $40,000 per update before 2014. So outside of an actual game breaking bug, you were paying part of a developer's salary to make even a one byte change of data. This is no longer the case but console update prices are a large reason why a lot of games back in the day never got small fixes done as it was never seen as worth it by the time someone caught the mistake.

[@AllyMonsters]

@@skeletonbuyingpealts7134 That did happen, The only reason you think it didn't is because Chris needs to cover his but so he can keep getting work. More workers had come out and said it was totally a jip job and lost a bonus to a narrow score. Chris is the only other one that says otherwise and he is very high up in the chain. So why would the workers under him say they were jipped out of a bonus but not him? Most of the other reasons I can think of don't paint Chris is a very good light more so since in 2012 he also said the same thing as they did only to change his tune over 8 years later. :repost:

[@skeletonbuyingpealts7134]

@@AllyMonsters Source?

[@sinbysin666]

Here's another theory: Maybe they thought the black suit looked too "business", or corporate, and thus went for the more fun looking striped suit (which also goes along with Benny's suit). So they made a last minute change.

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

The white suit fits their "wolf in sheep's clothing" mantra perfectly. Personally, them having black suits would ruin their aesthetic for me.

[@ashotfanged8106]

I also think white suits suit chairmen so much better

[@elio7610]

Maybe the other faction should have black suits.

[@mostdefinitelyahumanandnot2884]

@@bloodmoonangel8925 Wolf in sheep's clothing? Afaik Benny was a Bad Egg, wasn't he?

[@kireta21]

Omertas sport "mafia" look, because they run high-class brothel. Many clients who very much prefer to stay under the radar. Intimidating look and no-nonsense talk is meant to ensure clients behave, and don't cause troubles that could bring outside attention. It makes sense for Chairmen go for more lighthearted and flashy look, because their income is almost entirely gambling, so they want people to feel carefree.

[@Slush_]

I can assure you, it wouldn’t take a crazy convoluted series of events for no one on the team to notice. What often gets underestimated is how isolated teams are in game dev, you work on your section and you often find out what significant chunks of things look like at the same time as the consumers do. That suit was probably written to be black by a designer, and that design document was used by the third party teams who made the comics and playing cards, then another internal team was implementing the suits and either overruled it to use an existing asset or simply missed that detail. Unless the designer who wrote the original document was paying extremely close attention and brought it up, it’s quite possible they were the only person on the dev team who even knew the suits were supposed to be black.

[@zacharycoleman1117]

On top of this, wrongly set but completely functional textures are also the type of thing that shows little evidence and would take a lot of investigation to notice if you didn’t already know. The NCR suit thing would probably only come across as weird to the most die hard fallout 3 fans, and even if one was on the team they might have assumed it was intentional.

[@sponge1234ify]

Indeed it wouldn't, but unfortunately we've been mythologizing Obsidian as the Paragon Of Details and Antithesis Of Bethesda for so long that in that mindset, it makes more sense for that to never happened.

[@madeline6951]

​​@@sponge1234ifywhat? I don't know about other people, but to me being an antithesis to Bethesda doesn't automatically mean being perfect in every way possible. It is generally accepted and well known that the development of NV was rushed and a lot of their vision was left on the cutting room floor. I don't see how one would get a perception that Obsidian are mythologised as game development gods. When people think of Obsidian as the antithesis of Bethesda, they mostly refer to the fact that their games actually have a "soul", an identity of their own with interesting concepts. They're not just compilations of nostalgia bait.

[@sponge1234ify]

@@madeline6951 I suppose most saner fans do think that, but the one I've experienced are those calling me sub-bricks and [science 0] for never playing NV but have played 3. I've never even said 3 is better, they've just jumped to that, and preached on and on on why NV is a perfect game with absolutely nothing wrong and all the problems it had was entirely Those Devils at Bethesda's doing, and I'm a [science 0] for the crime of just _touching_ 3.

[@madeline6951]

@@sponge1234ify You're exaggerating, but yea people do tend to prefer better games over worse ones. NV is also loved in spite of its shortcomings. A lot of limitations come from Bethesda's engine and the tight deadline of just 18 months. It's definitely not perfect, but the context makes NV a monumental achievement. F3 can be fine or even good if you approach it a certain way, but it's definitely not as substantive and doesn't really understand the source material.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

8:21 That's why you need to make this a series, show us all lore breaking or just game breaking bugs that never got fixed. The bugs both subtle enough to be missed but influential enough to complain about

[@htchn]

and so modders can make mods to correct them if possible

[@igorthelight]

@@htchn All textures, 3d models and scripts could be tweaked by modders so 99% of the bugs could be fixed ;-)

[@owendubs]

I think it's a sign that Obsidian did a great job that all we've got left are nitpicks. I think it's charming.

[@CommunistHydra]

Facts. This is like a social justice warrior's tweet

[@ElPolloLoco7689]

pretty sure making the Legion comic book villains is a pretty big criticism

[@rimuru2035]

I wouldn't consider infinite loading screens and the game freezing in such a way that the only way out is to unplug the computer to be nitpicks but severe game breaking bugs.

[@calt7964]

@@rimuru2035 skill issue

[@Breakdafunklooseforever]

​@@rimuru2035 "it just works"

[@topkat2134]

It always bothered me because I knew that there was a grimy and dirty suit which looked exactly the same but I never actually knew which faction was supposed to have which suit. Personally I think since the game is set in Vegas they should’ve maybe made just even 1 or 2 more suits for the different factions and Gamblers to make it feel more varied and give the chairman and ormetas a more distinct look and feel

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Tangential to that, it *really* bugged me when I was a youth and playing on console (and still even a bit now) that the gambler suits are 100% not in any shop inventories or loot tables. So the only way to get them (aside from I think once as a reward for gambling at the atomic wrangler) is murder or reverse pickpocketting.

[@topkat2134]

Yes this annoys me so to obtain them I either play blackjack or just assassinate gamblers in vault 21 because I also play on console

[@yoshilovesyoshi]

@@Rosencreutzzz Damn, if only you could just barter with random NPCs like in Oblivion and the OG Fallout games so that you can get their clothes without resorting to murer-hoboeing. Yea, I think it kinda bothered me too tho, that they didn't just have "Black Pre-War Suit" and "Grey Pre-War Suit" or a "Blue Pre-War Suit" instead of giving them confusing names.

[@yeetusfeetus3059]

@@Rosencreutzzz i think almost every casino gives you gambler clothing as low-mid tier prizes i remember getting them in other casinos as well

[@yourdad6236]

@@Rosencreutzzz there is a dead gambler out in the fiend territory across from where the deleted entrance to the strip is with a Strip Letter on his body, I can't remember the number it is but that's where you can get the suit.

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Hi, thought I'd add in a small addendum: I'm aware that development time for FNV was stunted and that there were some inter-company dynamics at play that likely added further bureaucracy to patching, and also console constraints to consider, but given how there were other small bugs patched out with the addition of certain dlc, I found it interesting the bug remained. That's it really, it's an interesting bug to think about, less so for its inclusion and more so for its impact. I mean, the fallout wiki doesn't even cite it as a bug despite all signs that it is. Second, I just wanted to very quickly say that this isn't a call-out of the devs (or hbomberguy). My intent was mostly to document the bug's existence and point out how it changed people's perceptions.

[@CPorter]

You need to give yourself more credit. You are by no means being pedantic in the slightest with this video. People who say "who cares", "it doesn't matter", or even "bruh, you're literally whining about a tiny bug in a 10+ year old game lmao" are just hopeless causes of people incapable of understanding that Minor Details are incredibly important, especially when they have such an impact as this. And it's exceedingly clear that these people wouldn't know anything of what they say, and clearly don't even want to try to see things in a way that isn't vilifying you for no reason.

[@MrLays123321]

Great job on this video and the editing! I had never heard of this issue before and just assumed it was changed before release for one reason or another. New Vegas did have quite a rushed development, from my understanding. Perhaps development was aware of the bug, but thought it would be better/easier to leave it in? That was my initial thought as I can see management thinking something like, “Ahh, striped suits for the Chairmen since Benny wears a checkered one, that makes sense stylistically.” I have no clue, but it would be a fantastic question to ask one of the development team heads that worked at Obsidian at that time!

[@ShadowmancerLord]

Yeah honestly I feel like the horrible game breaking memory leak was their focus at launch, and a lot of other stuff kind of fell by the wayside. They probably just lost this one as a not very important issue

[@MechaLeo]

My personal take on the distribution of fixes across releases and localization is that new stuff simply kept popping up on the radar and shoved the texture to the back on anyone's mind. Yes, it's an easy adjustment, but when you consider how the team working past its deadline shift members or just move on, and how some versions had to rework assets to censor the game for various reasons, it becomes more of an amenity at that point than a crucial fix. Maybe they were nonchalant about the whole thing. I personally like the black suits more, but I don't hate the white suit. If anything maybe my mind never registered the discrepancy since the suit melded into the Tops' retro motel aesthetic. If we threw the ball in the other court and said the Gommorah's were designed with black suits, would you make this same video with even more gusto that the shady mafia group deserves black suits?

[@leitodamien3835]

I blame Bethesda. Obsidian only got 9 months of developments. And even then the Bethesda tried to cheat out on their bonus which might contribute to their bankruptcy, 94 out of 95 metacritic score. Todd say fuck you losers, I get to keep 5 millions dollars bonus to myself. As if metacritic score is any justifiable metric to go on. You could only need to pay a couple of critics a few hundred bucks and the review sank. Anyone with half of a brain know you set your bonus using sales numbers, not fucking critics. Truth is, the game is rigged from the start.

[@JXEditor]

I’ve noticed this too. I like the Grimy suit in 3. I think at this point they can’t fix it because the white suits are now synonymous with the faction and fixing it would bring the fact it was a “mistake” right to people’s attention.

[@Yorick257]

I'm not sure. I played NV several years ago now, and all I remember about the Strip is there is Ultra Deluxe, there's Gomorrah, and then a (rich) generic casino (as opposed to the poorer casino from the outer part of Vegas). Changing the suits would make them stand out a bit more

[@azeria1]

@@Yorick257 the tops is my favourite casino since besides benny it’s just a nice place no eating people no other weird stuff

[@jakezambas]

See, what’s fascinating to me is- i got the special edition at midnight on launch night, and literally never noticed the suit thing! And when i see the mod you use to make the suits black, it looks so incorrect! Great vid man thank you

[@coldestgerm553]

Fun fact the burned corpses can glitch back to life and attack you lol

[@thaguy69]

Tbh, the chairmen should have white outfits, and the omertas should have the black ones. Black just has more of a mobster vibe. If they do an NV sequel or anything like that, they should change the color of one group and have an npc mention they changed to distinguish themselves.

[@wasd0109]

During software development, we prioritize all bugs due to time constraint and limited resources. The bug you mentioned is highly likely to be ticketed, but just put at the lowest of all priority as, 1. It's not game breaking 2. It's not easy to notice and the most important reason, it's so easy to fix that everyone would say "Well I'll come back to it" and never actually get fixed.

[@leatheryfoot6354]

I always wanted the black suits because they look way more mafioso, but I like the way the white pinstripe kinda look similar to Benny's Checkered suit. It makes them look like Benny's Grunts.

[@obamabiden]

i actually do remember being a little disappointed the omertas just dressed like "chairmen with hats" who would've thought actually the chairmen were stealing their look due to a bug the whole time

[@95Bartlett]

It may be because I already associate the Chairmen with the white suits but the omertas would look better in black imo. It would give them that mobster vibe they're going for.

[@jaisummons2304]

Spiderman meme hey that's my suit

[@TheMrkaro]

I am non-native English speaker and I played through Fallout New Vega fully in English. Now that I think about it, it never occurred to me that the Chairman were different faction. They just seemed as some guys who run New Vegas for Mr. House, but it makes sens to make them more aesthetically distinguished with their own unique uniform. That being said, it is a cool video that gave me a new perspective, I surely subscribe to you in pursuit of more videos!

[@ryanbolson23]

Bomberguy been real quiet since this dropped

[@ydgjoe]

hes deleted his channel because of this BLUNDER, while he was too busy enjoying this game he didnt even realize some of the suits were the wrong color!!!! the game is practically unplayable now!

[@cacokid1489]

While the fact that you can tell most NPC's opinion on the Legion by how they pronounce Caesar's name, it kind of falls apart since Karl's voice actor uses both pronunciations in his dialog when we know he is part of the Legion.

[@tylerchristian3557]

Yours is the channel on KZbin that most shares my niche-as-hell specific combination of interests/politics, and I cherish you for that.

[@tylerchristian3557]

Oh, and this glitch is still better than "Admiral Carth" from KOTOR II just wearing some generic armor. It's not even a Republic faction outfit!! Still bothers me, even though he's there for a few brief cameos, most over holocall.

[@KPdewstar]

Todd said theres something hidden in a terminal in fallout 4......... Its your bug report lol

[@midknightranger71]

This goes on the list of pettiest shit I've ever seen

[@MikefromTexas1]

I just thought they had white suits.🤷 Hardly seems like a "Lore-breaking bug".

[@Gitshiver]

You know, at first it did seem pedantic, but imagine if the ordinators in vivec we're just wearing bonemold armor. These things are important to the World building, the narrative, and the player experience itself. It also highlights some issues on the development side, several people in the chain had to take a "good enough" attitude towards a factions whole aesthetic, even after it is pointed out to them. This might be just a small detail, but it pulls a thread that runs through the heart of the game.

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Yeah that's what really gets me. Like I know it's easy to overlook things on a long project, I do it often. But FNV had a lot of people looking over it, even at glances. And The Tops is a required location in literally every main quest route, so it's not like it's a rarely visited place.

[@drstrangelove307]

@@Rosencreutzzz it’s really not a big issue, but I can’t be surprised that a viewer of Hbomberguy has a tendency to over analyze media

[@Thunderous333]

​@@drstrangelove307 this guy gets it

[@Dawnbreakerr]

It is not a big deal. End of story.

[@itsaUSBline]

Wouldn't it be more like if ordinators were wearing ordinator armor that's a different color?

[@pie8863]

There’s a mod that makes the chairmen suits have variety and resemble the suits from the 1960 Ocean’s 11 movie that looks absolutely great and completes their vibe

[@TheLateLordKardok]

Huh. I never really realized that the Chairmen and the Omertas wore the same suits. Their personalities differ so vastly that I didn't even recognize that they wore the same outfit, except one has hats on. I feel like that's a testament to New Vegas's writing, to be honest.

[@jumpingmoose5554]

So what was the the lore implication? My main take away was that this is a significant detail, but I didn't catch why.

[@Bingbong123swong]

It’s not significant in the slightest lmao, it’s a nitpick

[@codeman409]

I still laugh when I think about that bug with Doc Mitchell that caused him to float and have his head spin

[@codybates5659]

Welp. Thats ten minutes I'll never get back.

[@cream4r]

Factual

[@Scottaxi2001]

It's just time allocation. They could have taken the time and fixed this, but that would have required prioritising a minor visual bug over the game breaking ones and stability related ones. By the time the game launched most of the team had already moved on to Dead Money and the early stages of Honest Hearts. Only a small portion of the team was allocated to bug fixes. Triangle City has some really interesting videos on the topic

[@MannerdDesert7]

The obvious answer is priority, working on a finished game costs money so devs have to justify to the producers that a fix is worth the cost. I doubt Bethesda/Zenimax was willing to pay obsidian to change the colour of a suit especially since there are a shit ton of other small bugs & even some serious ones that never got fixed as well.

[@roosty2266]

Yee. Absolutely wild to call it at best “weak excuses” when Beth gave them very little time to get the game out

[@Cavemanner]

Ugh, seeing all the cards and the All Roads panels brings me real pain. Had a box containing my NV Ultimate Edition get stolen out of our garage while moving several years ago now. Lost quite a few extremely sentimental items in that theft, but that NV set is the thing I constantly pine for. I would sit and shuffle the cards during long loading screens, of which there were many on the 360 version of the game, and loved seeing the concept art on them. 😢

[@Nik930714]

As someone who develops hardware (and sometimes software) for a living, maybe i can give an opinion as to why it was never fixed. Usually programmers are under a lot of pressure to fix EVERYTHING or under pressure to fix just the important stuff, so they can work on the next big thing. The color of a suit is a bug that may not have even reached them in a bug report, being labeled "insignificant" lower down the chain. Also Bethesda games are known for mods that fix small bugs like that. I can just imagine a manager who is under pressure to go "well the fans will fix it, we have 0 time for the 10000 very small bugs". I'm speculating based on my personal experience. There are many past projects that i'd love to go back and finish, fix or add functionality to, but that would not add a lot of perceived value to a product and at the end of the day, that is what a business needs to get more sales.

[@0lionheart]

Game developer here. Typically, at the end of a project, QA are the ones filing the lion's share of bug reports, and this might've just literally been something that no-one knew was wrong. Even if it was filed, it would've been so low priority the only way it would've got fixed is if every other bug was sorted. You'd be surprised how many bugs end up being known, and just marked as we don't have time to fix. Bug waivers are a thing in development; getting the publisher to sign off on X known bugs to prevent a release day (typically bugs that don't occur often, or don't impact gameplay, or are barely noticeable).

[@datcat8451]

Honestly, this opens up a fascinating discussion into the intent in media creation. Is a mistake which enriches a story good? And what does that mean about mistakes which don’t enrich, or even harm a story? How much of New Vegas is player abstraction from mistakes and gaps? There is discussion in some circles the Legion is unfinished due to the shortened dev time of the game; is this shortcoming which is against the original vision of the game different substantially from this texture bug? Sure one is a textural bug and one is cut content, but at is core wouldn’t both be fixed by more time? How does time relate to creative vision? Either way, good discussion starter!

[@Robb1977]

I think your answer is in there: it depends on what it is. A visual glitch/bug doesn't change the chairmen too much, if at all. But cutting out sections that could highlight the better side... or just how much of a facade the legion puts on change lore/speculation. For instance, people assume caravans are safe under the legion, but ignore the desert rangers who probably were likely almost as effective, without slavery. Part of the enduring legacy of new vegas definitely is the death of author, which causes players to argue which faction is best without being told. More legion lore/quests wouldnt break this, but something like say... postgame content could.

[@thelastant8366]

This bug didn't ruin their aesthetic, it improved it.

[@TrustyworthyWorm]

I was just wondering that. It was often mentioned by fans how the concept art showed a different color and was originally meant to be a different color. I had no idea it would have differentiated the factions, which would be nice so all three families are distinct. The Omertas and the Chairmen look practically the same except for Benny’s suit. Small detail though.

[@cipherenigma]

I can't believe Obsidian would destroy their lore like this 😢 smh

[@DovahFett]

I'm still waiting on them to decide whether or not horses exist in Fallout. Chris Avallone and Josh Sawyer still haven't reached a conclusion.

[@joemueller781]

I can imagine this being, not a bug, but a last-minute decision by some producer/executive who thought Benny's suit didn't match the black uniform of his faction.

[@toxiccorgi2108]

Obsidian apparently did not have a proper system for logging bugs for a good chunk of development. Instead, they mostly used post-it notes to mark down bugs. Honestly, it's a miracle they even managed to ship a game that works on consoles, considering Kotor 2 is near unplayable still.

[@Ghostzer0]

I actually noticed that their outfits were the same when I played and that the hat was the difference... thanks for the explanation as to how that happened.

[@electronkaleidoscope5860]

I actually do remember thinking the suit choice was odd back in the day when i first played. The idea of the door guys wearing a shockingly similar *but not the same* white suits always felt kind of off somehow. Now I know why- and it really corroborates what you're saying here that I'd picked up on it

[@sigmascrub]

The comic was sooo good. There's a scene where one of the Khans deduces that Benny is much more rough than his checkered suit suggests because he's the one setting the pace of the group. It paints Benny as much more of a badass than the game gives him credit for.

[@brendanhawkins7526]

RIP Matthew Perry Benny was definitely one of the greatest voice acting performances ever

[@danielsurvivor1372]

7:40 I think ppl might, key word might not care because, well, Chairman got kinda robbed in the game. Sure the main antagonist of first half of the game is a chairman but all the other chairman are kinda insignificant. Gameplay vise they get one unique side quest(I'm not counting main quest), and that side quest is a fetch quest but with humans. Sure Ultra Lux also gets one side quest, but man what a side quest it is! Probably best in the entire series! So I think that quest alone carries Ultra Lux aka White Gloves Society. And the Gomorrah has I think 2 side quests, or 1 side quest and 1 main quest, but the point is that they get more then 1 quest to flesh em out(plus you can get pimp boy 3 billion if you follow the guide on YT) but chairman, despite their cool attitude, get nothing special ;_;

[@ASolidSnack]

The reason it wasn't patched it likely because of practices at the time. This was the first generation where online patches were a common thing on consoles, and the process wasn't as streamlined and simple as it is now. EVERY single patch had to be resubmitted to both Sony and Microsoft for approval before it could be released, and you had to pay them a fee in order for them to retest it. I've heard horror stories where developers would be told that their patch was not approved, but given no reason why, and not issued a refund. For this reason, patches were almost NEVER done unless it was literally game breaking, and a lot of the time even then it wasn't worth the effort for games that didn't sell much to begin with. This is also why Josh Sawyer ended up just making his own mod for the PC version that makes simple fixes they weren't able to do.

[@meskah6858]

I think the most likely of scenarios is that the bug was a combination of being extremely low priority (Like you mentioned, they *had* suits. just technically the wrong ones) and that it'd end up being such a minor thing admittedly most people don't notice or care about. The actual clothing item is the correct one, it's not like the Grimy was misplaced as the Dirty suit in so far as the level/character designers made a mistake, it was an error on whoever had set the texture in the GECK for the suit. It very well could of been, in a pile of bug reports and someone had meant to get to it, but issues like the BOS bunker and the save corruption bug were so much more important. I think an even more offensive bug was the armored V21 suit being accidentally cut, was obviously cut and then never placed back into the game world even with DLC. Considering the DLC, if we use that as a marker of "why was this not fixed" several of the team had changed to other projects or just left at the time. It's very well possible the person responsible for working on the Tops (or just bug fixing) had moved on to other things at the time. I think the fact that this video exists is a monument to just how good New Vegas was, that despite it's troubled development and millions of problems: something as small as a suit texture matters to people.

[@alicealysia]

My guess is that during the early days of the games launch it was seen as a minor texture bug the devs could get back to, but later on the devs realized it was too late, as the average player would now just assume the chairmen were meant to have white suits.

[@mayanightstar]

I honestly live for youtube videos about tiny petty video game things like this

[@culinaryspecialistsam]

i think the white suits are a little jazzier personally, i get the omertas also wear them but they still feel distinct and fit the chairmens vibe pretty well

[@_Ve_98]

I think that by far the thing that makes this bug hurt the most is actually the attention to detail on everything else. We notice things that stand out from the pattern far more and, in cases like this, we find them far more jarring than if mistakes like this were everywhere. Also, Bethesda kinda screwed Obsidian over New Vegas, I can see things like this going unpatched because of Obsidian devs feeling scammed and burned out after making a game like this in less than 2 years.

[@DonnaPinciot]

If it's something as simple as the texture set for the suit being swapped, then it's something which could easily pop up later in development when it _was_ as intended to start with, and when it was reported internally, it was very low on the queue despite the ease of fixing it.

[@KageRyuu6]

Regarding not fixing bugs, many features in the earliest FPS such as Bunny Hopping and Air Strafing were in fact physics bugs which were later transformed into features.

[@pinewolfpresents]

I'll never be able to un-learn this information, thanks

[@David9413]

If nothing else, you've made me a black suit truther, and I will be adding that little fix to my mod setup from now on. Thank you, I never knew, or more precisely noticed it, despite having seen the playing cards and read the comic.

[@Seth22087]

Never had a clue about that one. Which is probably why it never got fixed in the first place. Because when developing games, they always consider how many people will be effected or notice a bug. And because this one was consistent enough they likely thought that most people won't notice or be bothered, so they gave it like pretty much lowest to no priority and those bugs often are left unfixed, because there are usually, especially in buggy game, a lot of bugs that are more noticeable or will effect higher number of people. And with New Vegas, I think they put in the amount of work they were going to put in based on deals and stuff, do bare in mind that they did miss their target score metric by a little, which effected how much they were paid, plus I do think they never had chance to properly take time to fix things, before they had to move to doing DLC. Which meant that plenty of bugs were left on the side. And sure you could say they could fix it in between, if schedule is tight, they likely already were doing overtime and that is doing extra volunteer overtime... to fix bug that probably like 10 people will notice to be bug. So they had to prioritize things. Maybe if they got paid bonus for hitting review score, that would give them more resources to work with, namely money, but time is money, so it would help. Plus with complexity of the game, it is quite possible that a lot of stuff like that were put on to do list somewhere and list got lost. Shame, I do wish they had time to do more or if NV would go way of Baldur's Gate 3 and release in early access, granting them more money so they could continue development... but this is something even modern games miss, like Cyberpunk 2077 or No Man's Sky... though in those cases, they did get enough to actually fix their games.

[@mehranmahdlou4375]

Holy shit, the most Reddit post video ever.

[@sprdy5534]

TRUE

[@kissmekatut]

hey thanks for highlighting the suit mod, coming from FO3 so long ago and not having a black suit in Vegas always confused me the same way you noticed when playing NV at first. Also I never would've known the tops were supposed to be dressed in black either. I did find it odd that nearly every suit was a white striped suit apart from formal wear

[@LukeSky2207]

Weirdly, I had always noticed the suit bug, but never connected it to the Chairmen wearing white too.

[@SteezyMPeezy]

This is some major nitpicking LOL

[@cacadinglenut7866]

Agreed

[@Xerdar36]

Wait, this is a joke… it Has to be a joke

[@yeetusfeetus3059]

yeah i always liked the black suit texture, never knew this was even a bug. need the mod, but its going to be weird to see all the chairmen in black ngl

[@mistertuberculosis6191]

I don't think I've ever seen a chairman with a black suit.

[@GoosieGoos]

I wanted to rib you for this one but i had the same gripe about this bug as a kid too

[@p0nt]

grimycels seething over dirtychad superiority

[@Rosencreutzzz]

gives a whole new meaning to being blackpilled

[@MrDaAsif]

I always thought I was missing brain cells when I struggled to separate the Omertas and the Chairmen in my head in terms of aesthetics when every other faction was distinctive

[@dieselshot9768]

Even dirty, the white suits look better and theme with Benny's, so I can see why they did it.

[@maboilaurence8227]

I find it funny that you focused so much on those suits, but not the fact that Vulpes Inculta's card shows a man with long blonde hair and blue eyes, while his character model has short brown hair and blackish eyes. It's safe to assume that whoever was in charge of making those promotional cards and marketing wasn't part of the development team, Bethesda probably outsourced it, which would explain these inconsistencies.

[@coolness124321]

It's pretty clear that the art on the playing cards is either ripped directly or sourced from concept art, hence the discrepancies between characters on the card art and how they appear in game. Some of that mind you comes down to engine limitations as all character models pull from the same model presets you use at the start of the game. Evidence of this is father Elijah (compare his in game model to how he appears in the fountain) and Ullyses whom they had to break all conventions to give him a unique appearance.

[@zeldie2375]

If you play as a female courier and side with the Legion then Vulpes’ model is actually blonde with blue eyes in the ending slides

[@lore9828]

This reminds me of something that happened with the Halo CE remaster, when Gearbox ported CE to PC it butchered it's graphics, broke many things like lights, transparent objects, reflections, and many other things, the thing is that since that port had netplay added and worked on PC, the remaster was based around that port instead of using the OG xbox version as a reference, as a result the remaster took many mistakes gearbox made (such as Cortana not changing colors based on her mood, Gearbox broke that, or Keyes model being different from the actual model it had in the OG version due to gearbox taking an older and worse looking model for the port than the one the xbox version used) as the way the original game looked, a bug made by gearbox changed the whole vision of the game and probably the canon too (Cortana doesnt change colors after Halo CE).

[@derekmensch3601]

Also in the 343 Guilty Spark Cutscene. Captain Keyes wears his Naval Dress Umiform and not the Combat uniform like in the original

[@PregnantOrc]

The sameness of the suits had me initally dismiss all of the casinos as being the same. Leading me to ignore them completely unless another quest sent me to one, at wich point I focused on that objective and missing out on their stories.

[@TheBucketDealer]

I noticed, but only on my pc version. I have at least 3,000 hours on the xbox 360 port of New Vegas and I have only ever seen them in the White suits. But on my modded PC playthroughs, I come about to see them wearing the black suits from time to time. I thought it was one of my mods that was doing that. Definitely interesting and im sure anyone who knows how to use the G.E.C.K and the Gamebryo Engine could do a deep dive and tell us exactly what causes this to happen.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Most weirdest thing to complain about... *When will you make more of it?* I need to see more videos like that, it's interesting and cool

[@Kydrou]

This is a great video, but sadly 8:06 destroyes it's entire foundation.

[@user-dnf83n0s8sg9u]

Cool little video too but yeah pretty much

[@MB-sq7yn]

Does it? Noticing the suit texture bug can happen entirely just within the game, it's made far more obvious if you seen those same suits in 3 sure, but the puzzle pieces are still there.

[@JustPlainAwfulStreams]

did you not watch the video? He noticed this bug by playing the game and only relied on outside media to CONFIRM that it was an unintentional bug and not a design choice

[@GoodbyeBleed]

It's honestly impressive you manage to make a 10 minute video out of this.

[@chrisgreely5958]

Just in case anyone was curious and didn't want to check their game, the fix is included in YUP as well.

[@amongstus4418]

Tbh I think part of the reason why they didn't fix it is because it'd be jarring on repeat playthroughs to realize. Also probably some console issues to get it as a patch for people playing mid game, could cause save bloat issues. Maybe not but the hassle of getting it approved probably wasn't worth it to the devs. Another thing is that it actually seems to 'fit' the faction more to have white suits especially with Benny who has his checkered suit. He stands out a lot more with the black suits vs seeming to blend in with the rest of the Tops.

[@hedgehog3180]

You also have to remember the logistics of this, this game is 13 years old, shipping out a patch wasn't necessarily that easy or quick. Sure online consoles were becoming the standard now but not everyone had a connection, so getting a patch out would take a while and back then no one expected to have to sit and download patches before getting to play a new game they just picked up. By the time they were able to ship a patch and update the next production run with it, it's extremely likely that many people would already have completed the game once or gotten very far so the change would be jarring and was clearly unnecessary since everyone was fine with the Chairman as they were.

[@Thedefenses]

On the one hand, yes it a bug that breaks the lore of what they have been established to wear in the comic and physical merchandise. On the other, as you said your self, most people won´t even know it exists in the first place, me included before this video, and no matter how much Obsidian loves their games and the world building in them, its a case of what is more useful for the studio, fix a tiny bug most people don´t even know exists, or try to fix many of the ones people do notice and get annoyed by. Companies will make decisions on a different priority style than private developers, that's why New Vegas is still this buggy even in the current day.

[@thanosofthecommunistdruzhi9107]

Yo it’s nautilus

[@SweetShawn999]

Actually remember getting the omertas and charimen confused a lot when I first played. Now that you mention this, I can easily see why when every other building in the city had very different types of characters.

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

To be fair to Obsidian, a lot of the problems and bugs can be attributed to not being given enough time and support, first in the initial development and then in the pressure to create DLC and finally in the almost childish way Obsidian was not allowed to keep patching the game when Bethesda got upset that people started criticizing Fallout 3 when compared to New Vegas. You have to remember the timeline, they had 18 months to make the game it was released oct 2010, by Sept 2011 they had 6 DLCs released and rumors that Bethesda had decided not to allow Obsidian to continue to support or patch the game months prior to the final DLC. That is only 2 and a half years from the start of the project to when all official support ended. Them not getting to a purely cosmetic bug that 99.9% of people didn't notice is understandable.

[@malbornmabll9782]

When fallout new vegas is so good the only gripe about it is a whit suit supposed to be black. I love that game so much

[@sojournertaylor6897]

3:25 A pedantic dork You know, like Hbomberguy

[@Icksnuck]

Fantastic video… also just gotta say thank you for using the best new vegas tracks. Especially the mysterious broadcast jazz

[@Rosencreutzzz]

I'm pretty sure the main reason people don't use FNV music is that it's a minefield for copyright hell. I love the jazz though and it gets through just fine.

[@ThatDangDad]

I have like 300 hours in FNV and I'd never heard of this bug! Very interesting!

[@Bingbong123swong]

This is honestly the definition of a nitpick

[@LuizAlexPhoenix]

I like the white suits in the Tops, the Omertas would suit the black more...

[@one_for_one]

Huh, I never knew that was a bug. I always assumed they were supposed to be wearing gray as a nod to being Benny's underlings. Benny wears a black and white checkered suit, and the chairmen beneath him wear a mix of the 2 colors in gray suits.

[@ALCvideoprofile]

Uh excuse me it's a CREAM colored suit, NOT white.

[@Joov]

This was an awesome video. Never knew about this bug. Never even once noticed that both the Chairmen and the Omertas wore similar suits, but now I have this sudden urge to download the suit fix mod and never look back

[@GamerVB1539]

I remember taking an editing class for video and there was this Murch's rule of six that showed the order of importance for a cut of film. The steps were Emotion, Story, Rhythm, Eye trace, Two- dimensional Plane of Screen, and Three-dimensional Space of Action. If I had to take this concept and put it to what you're saying, I'd say that the inaccuracy of the suits would be part of the 3D space, which is the last of importance that shows the viewer's understanding of the time and space of the film. So, everything else about going to the Tops feels accurate, but you were able to pinpoint one aspect that disrupted the time/space of the area because of the inaccuracy of the suits in-game compared to earlier aspects from the comics/cards. Basically, obsidian made everything feel right for the tops, except for that one detail that changes the identity of the chairmen. Good catch

[@artusclips2912]

I did noticed this bug while playing new vegas after playing 3 since I always liked the "clean" business suit. Thus found a bit odd that the texture wasnt the same as 3. It never bothered me enough to think too much about it, but it felt odd reviving that memory from when I played the game in console a decade ago.

[@DaBigguhOne]

This sounds like an ai generated rant on something super insignificant

[@Rosencreutzzz]

yeah you got me I asked smarterchild to write me a prompt about tears of the kingdom and this is what it gave me instead so I just ran with it