The DEADLIEST 'Mech: Warhawk Prime Battlytics Mech Review

Is the Warhawk Prime the deadliest 'mech? Packing four erPPCs, gobs of heat sinks, and a targeting computer - this thing is tough to beat... check out this 'mech review and see if Battlytics will crown the Warhawk king.
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[@BattleBound]

The Warhawk is just an insane show of force projection anytime it is fielded on almost any battlefield in any engagement. If the Dire Wolf is the Baconator of the Clan assault 'mech stable, the Warhawk is easily its Ultimate Cheeseburger. Whatever kind of cheese is your favorite, the Warhawk has you covered in it. The armor doesn't get any better for its weight class, it covers top speeds for its size, and still manages to pack enough wallop to swing above its weight class (which, at 85 tons, there ain't much to swing) and send the opposing pilot's ride to the scrap heap. 4x ER PPCs on the PRIME configuration leave you able to comfortably cycle through firing three and two of them every other turn without massive overheating, and the LRM-10 is there for when you open up a fistful of smoking holes in your opponent's armor to find those critical hits and ammo bins. If you really like to spread your damage around, the Alpha configuration is like skeet shooting on legs. An LRM-15, Streak SRM-6, and an LB10-X AC allow you fling stuff all over the place while its 2 ER Large Lasers back up the carnage. When you're talking about Large Lasers as "back up weapons", you must be talking about Clan tech. The Beta configuration is a weird amalgamation of stuff that feels more like a test drive to see what kind of bang bang makes you feel happiest. 2 regular SRM-6s with, of all things, a Narc Missile Beacon, a Gauss Rifle, 3 ER Medium Lasers and an ER Small Laser for funsies is a little something for everyone. Though, when you absolutely, positively have to kill every last breathing mother's son in the room, you choose the Charlie configuration with 2 ER PPCs and 2 Large Pulse lasers and an extra six double heat sinks, which allow you to comfortably dump it all into someone's gaping maw every other 30 seconds without massive overheating issues, and a Flamer lets you set anthing living or not on fire if this ridiculous weapon combo isn't enough for you to watch the world burn. There are others, but those fall outside of the "Invasion-Era" models, with Advanced Tactical Missiles and the like. The point is, you can take a Warhawk in any configuration and go toe-to-toe with almost anything and have a reasonable shot at winning the engagement. It is an absolutely perfect example of the Clans' ethos and combat strategies. There are other 'mechs of the era that are bigger than the Warhawk, but none of them can reasonably say they are, strictly speaking, BETTER than the Warhawk, at least in a one-on-one engagement. It will go through a comparably sized Inner Sphere lance like a blowtorch through tree bark. The Warhawk is content to be the bouncer in the club; sure, the Timber Wolf is the diva that gets all the attention and the Dire Wolf is the star bartender, but the Warhawk will gladly throw you out on your ass if you're out of line and is perfectly okay with the job of wrecking anyone's face who steps even slightly out of line.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

LOL you need to commentate on every mech review. This was great to read!!

[@BattleBound]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Well, I'm subbed... so when I see them, I'm sure I'll be able to figure out something interesting to say. 😉

[@jakeapplegate6642]

The reason why the LRM is in the arm is because it’s an OmniMech. They tend to jam a lot of guns into the arms on paper because they are built to carry elementals that block torso mounted weapons.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Ah makes sense!

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

So expensive. We played a 20k game and it was a Clan heavy Star vs 1 heavy and 1 assault IS lance. It wasn't even fair. The IS has such a massive tonnage and fire advantage they stomped. Though there was no Masakari on the field.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

This is a bigger convo - and youre 100% correct. It is in my opinion very disadvantageous to play the clans with how much they cost (in Alpha Strike too). There is a “force multiplier” option somewhere for unequal forces but that doesnt quite work out either.

[@negajoule]

Warhawk is a brutal mech to face, even as a clanner. My BT mentor used the Prime as his command mech and it is letal as hell, especially in Trials of Position/Circle of Equals. I always preferred the Warhawk A because of the better versatility and crit seeking of the loadout (and lower BV). Would love to see Warhawk A in battlytics.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Yah - seeing one of these across the table is never a good thing 😁

[@roguerifter9724]

I never understood why they went with an LRM-10 as the backup weapon. IMO medium pulse lasers or SRMs would make more sense. Edit: Out of curiosity I checked to see how the Warhawk Prime compared to the Spirit Walker Prime on the ability to cook itself and its pilot front. A standing Warhawk Prime generates 24 excess heat but the Spirit Walker still wins easily. A Spirt Walker Alpha Strike while standing still generates 34 excess heat. If memory serves that's almost instant self destruct heat levels despite the utter lack of ammunition to blow.

[@WoWoverlord]

Warhawk Prime with the LRMS converted into extra heatsinks is one of my favorite mechs to play in MWO. Thing can shut down entire corridors with good positioning and have people cowering in cover.

[@NemFX]

I have one for my Diamond Sharks. Normally I dont use obviously cheap tactics. But in this case, I'm pretty sure they dont mind.

[@jakeapplegate6642]

Wonder how this stacks up next to the hellstar.

[@DarkKnightCuron]

Honestly, it might be more worth it to drop the LRM launcher in favor of more heat sinks, maybe some auxiliary weapons to protect it against infantry, like a pair of flamers or something. Not that the LRM launcher is a bad addition, it just feels like the main course of this 'mech would be better served by having a more focused backup weapon for specific foes and capitalizing on its massive payload of PPC death.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Yeah but that's really munchkiny

[@DarkKnightCuron]

@@DIEGhostfish War is war. You fight to win.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@DarkKnightCuron Yes but the !actual game designers make everyone a bit stupod for balance reasons. Also in lore heat neutrality is less possible than ik tabletop. A mech merely RUNNING can heat up the cockpit noticably. That's nore than enough to justify "yeah there's some diminishing returns in heatsinkage that the in universe designers need to account for but the tabletop doesn't track"

[@matthewbirdsall9518]

Fun mech to run through Battlytics. Interesting conundrum about the expense. Did a Clan vs IS game, something lke 3 mechs versus 8.

[@WhabandSheeb]

Where might we look at your Battlytics Database?

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

You can find a ton of mechs on battlytics.com.

[@BazztheBazz]

Clan Mechs are amazing....unless you have to pay for them.

[@BattleBound]

The Black Thorns knew it

[@mam162]

Fun fact--the Warhawk is the only assault Mech that appears in every Clan's Random Mech Assignment Table in the Crusader and Warden Clan Field Manuals. In fact, the Warhawk is the ONLY assault Mech that can be fielded by Clan Fire Mandrill's Kindraa Kline. Luckily, if there's one assault Mech worth using it's this one.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

This is indeed a fun fact!

[@daduronronron3955]

The Warhawk was THE very first mech I played in Battletech. Once I understood heat I switched the ER PPC's out for Large Pulse Lasers and peeled mechs like bananas. Shortly thereafter I broadened my experience by embracing the Succession War era tech (clan tech was JUST too easy), but I never stopped pursuing that damage potential. After many years I came up with the bastard cousin of the MAD-4A Marauder II, The RFL-2A the Rifleman II which had a PPC's and an AC 10 on each arm. It's the closest I was able to get to the Warhawk.

[@donnerrob6615]

Given that I will have to fight my first battle versus clanners soon and am quite new to the game, I tried to come up with something that can compete against clan mechs on the IS site of things...best mech I've come up with is a King Crab with two gauss rifles, two PPCs and an Artemis LRM15. It can only shoot 1.5 of those PPCs on average but then it can walk and is heat neutral. It does have an XL engine though but I'm hoping long range, 19tons of armor and an AMS are enough protection ._. Tldr, clan stuff is super scary, send help XD

[@subtlewhatssubtle]

"You could really put this 'Mech in any role." Will the Clan equivalent of a Lyran strategic planner please stand up, I need to see one of these in a Recon Star.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Don’t need to worry about recon when you can vaporize any opposing ‘mech at 21 hexes. They won’t know you were there if there is no one left alive to talk about it. 😁

[@thorveim1174]

Pretty sure Ghost Bear would be the one to scout with assault mechs

[@daduronronron3955]

I noticed it's been touched on but I am going to relate my Masakari (I've always preferred the IS names for Clan mechs) experience. My first time playing Battletech I was assigned a Masakari with Large Pulse Lasers in place of the ER PPC's. As a new player I didn't understand all of the nuances of Targetimg Computer use, all I knew is that I was taking out my opponents in 2 to 4 salvos and their responses were for all intents and purposes just bouncing off my armor. I liken the experience to somebody teaching you to play chess and then letting you win the first few times. As time went by I moved on to IS mechs because I like challenges and thinking my way out of difficult situations but the sheer butt-kicking potential of the Masakari never left me and spurred me on to make an assault version of the Rifleman along the lines of the Marauder 2 capable of 40 points of damage just not as accurately as the Masakari.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Hah love it - and you will definitely get more people to like the game when you put them behind the wheel of this killing machine. ..... but, Marauder IIC - is it better?! I’ll do that one soon.

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

LPL plus targeting computer combo is an I WIN button. Even a bad gunner will be able to make shots with that thing. Expensive but good build. You could face 3 or 4 IS mechs to the one Warhawk and probably come out on top. And that would be balanced for BV as well.

[@KevinPeterstheRyan]

I've always considered this guy the Death Star of BattleMechs, but prefer the C variant at a much needed cost savings.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Powergamer.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

😁

[@Apollo-js8rn]

I could drop a Timberwolf and none of my buddies will bat an eye. I can drop a Direwolf on my next game and my buddy says "meh." But as soon as I break out my Warhawk, they all say "You motherfucker!"

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Ahaha accurate.

[@Bandit213]

My favourite variant is the C with 2 ERPPC and 2Lplas and TC for 2999 base BV. Thing is a killerrrrrrr.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Haha clan LPLas are a great way of telling your opponent you hate them 😆

[@workshoptelescope]

My one piece of unsolicited advice for these incredible videos: include at least one image of the actual mech (painted mini or otherwise) to help reinforce any newer players' or non-initiates' connection to the mech in question. Amazing videos as always.

[@Ichaerus]

I may be somewhat late to this dance, but here to clarify things regarding called shots and aimed shots. You can use a targeting computer for aimed shots w/ the Clan ER PPCs, but not with the LRM-10, nor with cluster, multi-shot, or pulse weaponry. Because you're trying to go for a specific location(component) such as left torso, or right leg. The called shot on the other hand, is when you...call your shot at a region. Left, right, high, or low. Since it is not for a specific location(component), but instead a region, you can use the targeting computer, combined with missile, cluster, pulse, or multi-shot weapons. High on called shot means you roll on the punch table, low means you roll on the kick table. Yes, that means you can use a Clan Large Pulse Laser, Clan RAC-5, Clan LBX-20/Ultra AC-20 or Clan HAG-40 to called shot high, at range, on a moving target, for a 1 in 6 chance to hit the cockpit.

[@brianhenry152]

I remember reading about this bad boy in the battletech novel D.R.T. The main character Jeremiah Rose (former ComGuard) managed to get his hands on one and took his own personal war against the Clans against them. Pretty satisfying to read about clanners getting a taste of their own medicine! If you haven't read them, the exploits of his unit, the Black Thorns are a pretty fun read! Jeremiah Rose even manages to kick butt in a Charger! Lol.

[@yoloman3607]

But that cover art though....that black thorns series have some of the weirdest cover art in my paperback collection

[@Abb0able]

@@yoloman3607 Heh i wanted to mention the cover art too.

[@juangonzalez9848]

I always dropped the Lrm 10 and ammo for more heat sinks and armor. Sure, you are losing some damage, but the extra heat sinks really help. In MWO for a time it was just fun to volley fire the 4 ppcs so the enemy kept getting splashed repeatedly.

[@thorveim1174]

the answer to te warhawk (and most clan assaults really) isnt to try and make it face an equal.. but to swarm it For its cost, the IS can HEAVILY out-armor it and out-number it. And if it blows up/loses one arm.. man thats a lot of value gone in smoke in one fell swoop.

[@vensersrevenge8739]

Great video! The Warhawk is one of the scariest things to use to introduce players to the Clan Invasion. If they have only played introtech, there is no 'Mech that mounts more than one headcapper, and it is a short range AC/20. So then they play a 3050 game and fight a 'Mech with four headcappers, with a very long range, with no ammo to run through. It's horrifying, so of course the Hells Horses built the Hellstar to make an even crazier unit.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

lol yah I mean the reality is, with the right pilot, anything that can spew that kind of damage at that kind of range is just a winner. BV is certainly high, but from a “min/max” perspective I have a hard time imagining anything legitimately more competitive (notably for the sheet headcapping probability that you pointed out). 60 heat sinks on the hellstar is lol. Similarly in the 3020 era the Annihilator 1E (4 PPCs, 40 sinks) also hilarious. But that clan erPPC. 15 damage is the worst (aka the best).

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

Bring a Punisher or Thunder Hawk and you might be able to compete with this thing.

[@99zxk]

If we're doing customs, I take out the LRM 10 and add three more heat sinks. It allows it to cool 46, letting it fire three ERPPCs and run for +1 heat per round. The LRMs add nothing that an extra CERPPC can't cover.

[@MadmanMcNabb]

My recollection is this was the 'mech that pretty much taught me all Assault 'Mechs should pack at least one weapon capable of dealing 15 + damage. Against something like a Dire Wolf, it's gonna be slugfest, and sooner or later those boxcars are gonna come up.

[@alphawolf2993]

For campaign game I want to give someone a warhawk prime with 4 LPL instead of erppc and see how far they can go.

[@matthewpena3932]

If you ever get time to run the C config through Battlytics that would be great. I noticed it came out in the alpha strike box set and after looking it over I was curious if it would beat the prime in efficiency.

[@Dreadwolf3155]

Am I crazy or did the original TRO not show this mech with 2 ERPPC and 2 LPL in primary config?

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

I think it always had 4 erPPC! But who knows for sure - maybe first printing had an error, etc 🙂

[@Aleksandrgrc]

With an amazing gunnery and a targeting computer u can red line your heat a little then called shots on cool downs.

[@billwebb1320]

The commander of the Black Thorns describes the LRM as firing directly over his head as: Alarming!!!!

[@magni697]

There is another Clan mech out there that gives the Warhawk a run for it money and that is the Hellstar. I usually don't play mods, because people will default to long range energy weapons and get rid anything missile of ballistic.That being said, the Hellstar runs 4 Clan erPPCs with the heat sinks to handle firing all four weapons. It get really ugly fast!

[@DIEGhostfish]

Warstar was designed specifically to NOT be as OP as the Hellstar

[@BlitkriegsAndCoffee]

I really wish the game pushed for more in the way of combined arms. The raw mech killing power of massed PPCs doesn't look so hot against infantry and BAs dropped on top of them, but they are on so few tabletops that things like the Warhawk and Hellstar retain cheesy reputations.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Well. I have two reactions there 😁 1. I agree, and this is why we moved to try Alpha Strike which does a great job of supporting combined arms and really scrubs off a lot of the cheese - maybe at the price of detail. 2. The infantry rules in Total Warfare/Classic are awful. And imo a giant blast of irradiated particles that can melt a ton of armor would probably melt an entire platoon of men - but the rules in Classic seem to think otherwise. Or assume your platoon is spread out over a 30 meter area? Idk. Either way, I think PPCs aren’t nearly deadly enough against infantry and BA. But that is just me 🙂

[@BlitkriegsAndCoffee]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I think Infantry being someone what more resilient to heavy anti vehicle weapons makes some degree of sense. While a modern anti tank weapon can certainly kill a man, its not optimized to hunt them. Especially compared to what dedicated HE round from a similarly sized weapon can do. More importantly, diversification of weapon roles helps justify why everyone isn't just running around in PPC or Guass boats. If things like Infantry and Helos are nearly impossible to efficiently kill with those weapons, then the more uh...eclectic configs make at least some degree of sense. I do agree that Alpha Strike did a lot to clean up the play of the board game, but I also agree there is a legitimate criticism that the uniqueness of the weapons gets lost in there. (Which is a major selling point of the game) I'd love to see something that moved at a similar pace but made different weapons give mechs a more unique feel to them.

[@jaguargrenadier1111]

“This thing is just nasty!” *laughs in Smoke Jaguar

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

😆

[@DrDetroit941]

These are great hope you guys can get all of them done eventually.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Thanks! Also check out the website www.battlytics.com for some more designs!

[@CMDRFandragon]

While I never played it in TT< in MWO, I dropped its LRM for more heatsinks and armor.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

I think that would hold up as a smart move on the table too!

[@Camboprime]

All the warhawk factories were supposedly destroyed in the War of Reaving book, there might have been a mobile factory that survived with the Raven's but given the CSV Perigard Zalman that's unlikely.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Interesting fact!! This is definitely not reflected in MUL. Conspiracy. The Capellans are behind it.

[@DIEGhostfish]

The Scorpions apparently have a factory in their Space Iberian empire. They don't use the targeting computer's passive bonus, JUST the headshot function

[@rooneg]

I love the Warhawk, but at the price it feels like the place you’re more likely to field it is an Alpha Strike game. Sadly the Alpha Strike rules don’t replicate it’s affinity for headshots.

[@malusignatius]

The Tower of Power.

[@Archiemonty]

To the DFA gents, which of the variants would you two have to pick as a close second?

[@revenvrake7412]

The Warhawk is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to ER PPC boats until Clan Wolf-In-Exile and Clan Hell's Horses come up with the sheer terror that is the Hellstar and its thirty freezers to cool 60 heat a round. With the Warhawk I've always wanted to drop one ER PPC to slap on a Large Pulse Laser for that nice -3 to shooting for when a bug mech tries to dodge into close range. Works nicely with 2 ER PPCs for a total of 40 heat which the cooling system can handle. As for fitting it into a Star, that's actually pretty easy. You gotta use Battle Armor for the really low value stuff. Believe me, people do not like the idea of tackling a Warhawk with BA support around it (Especially if that BA is Salamanders with their dual flamethrowers to cause even more heat to the target).

[@Boseeinsteinshake]

I totally agree. I also think the Hellstar II is hands down the worst canon 'Mech to face in the game, aside from nuke lobbing WoB Urbie's maybe.

[@Bandit213]

Is that -3 to shooting the pulse lasers from the targeting computer? I think they errata'd TC's to not benefit pulse lasers.

[@revenvrake7412]

@@Bandit213 The Pulse Laser can't benefit from the secondary ability to aim all your shots at one location on the enemy but it still gets the -1 to shooting (which is why most folks want a TC in the first place)

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

That was my understanding as well! Thanks Reven.

[@TheArtofFencing]

I really love these analytics, but one question, do you sim these at your own distance mods or the original +2 per category?

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

This is based on RAW, so 0/2/4 for range.

[@JosephMitchell-zw3db]

Need a large pulls laser version please

[@ebonycat1985]

In classic its not worth it In alpha it is.

[@Bafimar01]

I cannot remeber but if the pulse laser bonus stacks with targetting computer. I would drop 3 er ppcs and put Lg Pulse lasers in for starters I love pulse lasers. Then play it with gunnery 3 or 4 . To help lower cost.

[@NRSGuardian]

The pulse laser bonus does stack with TC, and the C config swaps out 2 ER PPCs for 2 LPLs, so you could always use that one.

[@spotH3D]

I'd rather drop the LRMs and ammo for more heat sinks, but I can appreciate pure evil the Prime Variant is packing. Not a fan of TC and Pulse cheese, but the C variant is probably superior to the Prime.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

lol 100% agree - cheese is a good description... like, you can’t aim with them but who cares. What is it a net -3 modifier to hit? That is essentially the difference between a gunnery score of 3 vs 0. Do that math in terms of BV. Nuts

[@NRSGuardian]

There is a canon variant that does that exact thing. It was fielded by the Wolf's Dragoons, and piloted by Tara Lucas, the commander of Zeta Battalion during the Jihad.

[@Bandit213]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Aren't pulse lasers exempt from benefiting from targeting computers? Could have sworn I read that on Sarna.

[@kaibechtloff5674]

my main timeline is 3145+ ... but in my comunity u don‘t find players for it... the most time‘s i face clan mech‘s like this monster... because they don‘t know the timeline they bring the strongest Mech’s ... and if u don‘t use map‘s with alot of blocking terrain ...it will be a short boring game. they are surprise how strong they are even vs 3145+ mech... my favorited lance 12k~ BV(Ares-hera ,lament and two Triskelion) can‘t stand there ground vs mech‘s like the „warhwak“ but hey, that‘s like in the lore 😎 thx for the video and stay healthy Sry, for my eng... 😰

[@Dmorris556]

One of the dirty things I've done and had done with this guy is, pay for that =

[@Mortvent]

I modded one a long time ago using ER Large Lasers and upgrading the LRM to a larger pack with a few other tweaks(extra heat sinks and ammo iirc). It was a ton more lethal to me, since I was able to run and fire everything easily so the damage curve was flat from go.

[@lexington476]

The Warhawk is a killing machine, i think it is even better then the Dire Wolf.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Agreed. The sheer head-chopping power of this ‘mech is absurd.

[@Archiemonty]

Dire Worf? 😊

[@lexington476]

@@Archiemonty typed it wrong 🙂, or I must have had Star Trek on my mind as well 😀.

[@Archiemonty]

@@lexington476 obviously ST..

[@Dmorris556]

"Toddler's with shot guns" -Term used to describe Clan PPCs.

[@joshpontius8120]

The supernova comes to mind as a competitor, in a way right?

[@joshkellemen5931]

I know it's min/max but why wouldn't one just remove the 4th ppc and add more movement, heat sinks, etc?

[@Archiemonty]

Why?, just keep the fourth one in reserve if you lose any one of them early you still have accesses to three

[@GonnaDieNever]

The Omega beats it for firepower as well. 3 Gauss Rifles and 2 LBX 10's. It doesn't even need double heat sinks.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

And it’s only 75 tons heavier 😁 But from a BV perspective these mechs are not far off.

[@GonnaDieNever]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Omega is about a hundred BV cheaper I believe.