The Development of the North Carolina class - The Nelson that never was

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@jasonbrannock1698]

How did the American navy get the 12in/50 to work ,when the British couldn't.?J 🐺🐺🐺🐺

[@jamesredding7085]

Apologies if you covered this but it would be good to hear about British war plans to fight Japan, if Europe remained peaceful.

[@kiel_3222]

Are there any books where I can read about Kriegsmarine surface ships like Leipzig, Koln or the earlier Z destroyers?

[@brendonbewersdorf986]

Any chance we could see a video on the Imperial German FK light cruiser proposals? You already did a video on the l20e battleships so I figured their cruise design counterparts would be interesting to hear about plus the FK cruisers don't have alot of general information about them

[@Tuning3434]

​@jamesredding7085 Dr Alex. Clarke has some videos covering this topic. Few points he brought into attention: HMS Unicorn to support carrier operations in the East and a large role for the Town class cruisers as trade raiders. In his view he considers the RN to have been building for War in the East as the largest threat, than the Med 2nd and fighting the Kriegsmarine was a low 3rd priority.

[@TomFynn]

US: "What exactly are the British doing with the Nelson class?" UK: "What exactly are we doing with the Nelson class?"

[@treyhelms5282]

Observers: "Obviously, the British are keeping the back halves of those Nelsons in hiding somewhere, in anticipation of the treaty system breaking down."

[@TomFynn]

@@treyhelms5282So they are Half-Nelsons?

[@treyhelms5282]

@@TomFynn "Half nelsons". lol. You win.

[@dianedougwhale7260]

@@TomFynn full Nelson for you -

[@jimtalbott9535]

And then “(ahem!) I….I mean, what AREN’T we doing with the Nelson class!?”

[@syvarris467]

Just imagining US naval architects attempting to figure out what 5D chess the British were playing with the Nelsons is sending me.

[@AnonNomad]

"Write that down! WRITE THAT DOWN!"

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Hmm, these Nelson ships look like oil tankers...perhaps it's an advanced form of camouflage.

[@dianedougwhale7260]

@@Edax_Royeaux don't be silly !

[@sorover111]

It's like .. '"A 'battlecarrier' ?? .. dude it's just a non-conventional 16" gunned battleship ... relax!' lol

[@Holland41]

@@Edax_Royeaux British sailors thought so too. They nicknamed them "Nelsol" and "Rodnol" as British fleet tankers had names ending in "-ol"

[@thenorthernlegionnaire1848]

"The Nelsons must be battlecarriers" - in a blinding flash of understanding, I now know how WoWs ended up with the USN Hybrid abominations.

[@CorePathway]

A fast ‘battle carrier’ sporting an angled aft flight deck with a dozen SBDs and a dozen Wildcats, and pair of 14” turrets forward would have made one helluva commerce raider.

[@Straswa]

@@CorePathway Take that, Tokyo Express!

[@observationsfromthebunker9639]

Suddenly the Kearsarge thingamabob gains comprehension from a design point of view.

[@xsu-is7vq]

Before aircrafts became large enough to carry heavy weapons, carrying heavy guns to supplement offensive capability was a very sensible idea.

[@CorePathway]

@@xsu-is7vq the original Lexington initially sailed with 4 twin 8” turrets. Maybe for that reason.

[@jazzcranston3563]

"The Nelsons must be battlecarriers" Had me laughing more than it should

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

Hey, makes sense based on their cultural mindset.

[@kentlindal5422]

If I remember correctly, it was one potential design option until admiralty in a fit of sanity said no.

[@gp01zephyranthes]

I want to see a theoretical nelson battlecarrier for world of warships now 😂

[@therealuncleowen2588]

When you think you're smarter than everyone else but actually aren't.

[@vic5015]

"Heavy aircraft-carrying battleships".

[@VintageCarHistory]

My gift to you, my friend, for all you do and all you've done to help other KZbinrs. The music, 'Admiral Drach Arriving' is an original work, registered and copyrighted under US law. It is yours, Sir.

[@slytlygufy]

We all thank you. Drach's posts are a university history class, and that is a great piece of music.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Nice!

[@johnaustin704]

Very Nice Indeed! I thank You for your generosity to Drach!!

[@alexandermonro6768]

It's a really good intro theme, and suits the content perfectly. I like it even better than the original theme that suffered from the troll. Thanks for your great contribution to the channel!

[@cameronscanlan1620]

Thanks Mr Wild Bill

[@robertf3479]

I know it's been said before many times by better authorities than myself, but the North Carolina class were a game changer in the Pacific war. Firepower that rivaled anything Japan could put to sea with the exception of the Yamato class, fast enough to stay with the fleet carriers on all but the speed runs that Halsey preferred for his raids and armored to stand up to newer USN 14" shells, perhaps even Nagato's older 16" weapons. When she first appeared I don't think the Japanese realized just how heavy NC's AA armament was until the first time she opened up in defense of USS Enterprise with the Japanese aviators quickly learning the meaning of "no fly zone." I'm a sailor of the 1980s and 90s and I was absolutely infatuated during my all to brief visit to this ship. In comparison to most modern ships she is cramped but well laid out. In a word I would describe her design as "elegant." She is truly worth a visit.

[@Ron52G]

The speed run on the approach towards Japan on the Doolittle raid was 23 knots. The run back out was at 25 knots.

[@robertf3479]

@@Ron52G True, the speeds during both legs of the raid were restricted due to the pounding from weather the lighter escorts had to endure. Perhaps if NC and WA were available some of the lighter ships could have been left behind (but not bloody likely.) But it wasn't to be, both new battlewagons were still in the Atlantic either in final fitting out (WA) or in trials and shakedown (NC.)

[@robertelder164]

16"/45 and the fire control better then the Yamato class

[@videogameranime]

That's the "Showboat" for you.

[@tyree9055]

​@robertelder164 Please explain? Japanese spotters, binoculars, and training were pretty good early on in the war as exemplified at the general maulings the U.S. Navy suffered at Guadalcanal. Now, while the Yamato's crew was probably not as experienced (overall) as their other Japanese counterparts early on in the war (though I've no serious information as to exactly what the crew's quality was as a new ship), I'm curious to know why you think their fire control was inferior?

[@therealuncleowen2588]

In about 1990, as a 19 year old with more than a little interest in WW2, I had the pleasure of meeting a friend of a friend's grandpa at his home in Eastern Pennsylvania. Grandpa was very welcoming, he pulled out his photo album to reveal that he had served aboard the USS North Carolina during WW2. I recall being very interested but having little idea what to ask him. Can't recall his name or what his job was, except that he'd been young and an enlisted man during his service. Things he told me that I hadn't been previously aware of were that only part of the ship was armored and that when at general quarters, every man's post was within this armored citadel. When the main guns fired, every man had better be at their post because the concussion was likely to throw anyone outside, overboard. Every crewman knew this and the guns never just fired randomly, of course. (News to me at the time, I had pictured the guns just going off at all times of day, I suppose). I also recall asking if he was ever in a battle against other ships and feeling very disappointed when he said he hadn't. I hope I wasn't rude about it, like "oh dude, you never did anything cool." I recall a similar silly thought during my teen years when someone said they'd had occasion to meet astronaut Charlie Duke, 10th man on the moon. I vividly recall snorting and saying, "if it wasn't Neil Armstrong, it didn't matter." Ah, foolish youth.

[@JoramTriesGaming]

Mr Duke was a cool dude, I have to say - it's rare to shake hands with someone and have literally no words to say to him.

[@dianedougwhale7260]

@@JoramTriesGaming I screamed and then fainted -

[@AdmiralYeti8042]

Charlie Duke was awesome. I was lucky enough to grow up down the road from him and his stories from when I was a kid stick with me to this day.

[@reginajohansson9364]

North Carolina did sink a Japanese transport ship.

[@mkay1957]

Although not involved in any direct action against other capital ships, North Carolina saw plenty of action and ended up with more battle stars than any other US battleship.

[@mitchelloates9406]

I grew up getting to wander around on the North Carolina almost every summer whilst growing up in the late 60's. My family lived in central North Carolina, and we would always spend my parent's annual two week vacation heading down to Carolina Beach just below Wilmington. The first ever model I put together on my own, was of the North Carolina, that my parents purchased for me at the Memorial gift shop itself. It lead to a lifelong love affair with ships and all things naval, a 20 year career in the USN, and many good memories and good friends along the way.

[@baalzeebub4230]

Anchors A- weigh! OSSN aboard CVN 71 during the Cold War.

[@jackthorton10]

Thank you for your service good sir, hail to the foam!

[@kingblondie7075]

@mitchelloates9406 I've been on the NC several times visiting my parents in Wilmington. I met a tour guide for the battleship Iowa (in LA) who served on the NC in WWII.

[@ethanmcfarland8240]

And she’s still there too!

[@MM22966]

I found the pictures of the slipway being built as fascinating as the ship! From a mudbank to a full-scale contruction dock! Kudos for including/finding those!

[@dwightlooi]

The funny thing is that neither the US nor the British designed ships with the FULL INTENT on CHEATING the treaty system, whereas all the Japanese designs were intended to do exactly that. It is not hard to do... You can easily make a 50000 ton battleship a 35000 ton vessel if you do not install 2 or the three turrets and remove all the secondaries while replacing accessible deck replacing armor with plywood. The intent is to have all the stuff dockside and ready to be installed within 1 month when war breaks out. Not violating the terms of the treaty but the spirit of the treaty.

[@alphax4785]

That and looking at the Vasa and HMS Captain and going 'we could do that, but BETTER!'... and then either the ship mysteriously disappearing with all hands in a storm or being so ruthlessly cut down to remove top weight after reality reared its head it would've been far better just designing a ship that fit in its stated tonnage to begin with.

[@bluemarlin8138]

It’s arguable that Britain did this with the County Class cruisers. They had reasonably thick armor, but only had that armor over the engines and magazines, and the ships rode very high in the water, almost as if they were designed to have enough reserve buoyancy to add a couple thousand tons of extra weight. Then in WWII the British magically found some armor that happened to fit the unarmored sections of the County Class, and the ships had no stability issues. Hmm.... The NC and SoDak classes also used some “creative accounting” in order to get under 35,000 tons standard. They were definitely built to be at least a few thousand tons over this with a combat loadout. Although they definitely weren’t designed to be 9,000 tons heavier, as they were with all their wartime additions. But yes, for the most part, the US and Britain made a good faith attempt to comply with the treaty, or at least the spirit of it. Germany, Italy, and especially Japan just said “screw it.” I suspect the Soviets would have cheated massively too if they could actually build warships.

[@dwightlooi]

@@bluemarlin8138 Well, nothing like commissioning with 6" guns with 8" turrets dockside ready to be swapped and the said 6" turrets magically dropping into battleships as secondaries.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

And result was Japan and build some dangerously overweight and top heavy cruisers.

[@treyhelms5282]

@@Edax_Royeaux TBF, US cruisers were notorious for being top-heavy too.

[@scottdunn2178]

Dad was on the North Carolina from her commission in April 1941. He would have turned 100 on Sept. 8th. Dad would have loved these videos ⚓️

[@jackthorton10]

Thank him for his service… Fair Sailing and Weather good sir

[@cobbeaver]

Funny enough, I was there a few weeks ago and found an answer to an open question from your tour video of USS North Carolina - the origin of its Kingfisher. It is not the ship’s original, but it is AN original. This plane was separated in fog in a flight in Alberta, Canada in August of 1942. Crash landed. Was recovered in 1963 by the Canadian government, who turned it over to the USS North Carolina for a permanent home. Tookuntil 1971 to finish the restoration and it has been in Wilmington since!

[@johnpreusser6740]

Its a beautiful plane

[@bmouch1018]

I'll miss the old music, but I'll live as long as the cannon fire never goes away

[@pdunderhill]

Think its Drach's pragmatic response to attempted blackmail.

[@IamOutOfNames]

@@pdunderhill I would have preferred less pragmatic but more effective cannon fire as response.

[@rogersmith7396]

He could use the Bikini atol explosion over the fleet with the Dr. Stangelove finale.

[@Julius_Hardware]

Whenever the gunfire starts I apologize to my family as if I'm having severe intestinal issues. They think its highly amusing - well I'm sure they will eventually find it highly amusing, and I intend to persist until they do.

[@bmouch1018]

@@pdunderhill blackmail? What happened?

[@Rikevis10]

What a great way to start the day. A design history of my home state battleship. It’s an amazing design story. I’ve been accustomed to her look, as well as the following classes, for so long - I’d never have imagined so many odd layouts were considered. Thanks Drach.

[@fredbadgett7962]

The 1960 era school children of N.C. saved the ship. They collected and donated pennies, nickles and dimes until enough funds were on hand to create the museum in place now.

[@stephenandersen4625]

I recall asking my Dad why the New York wasn’t saved. He did “people just don’t care any more “ Rather than. “ the hull was dangerously radioactive hulk that would have killed tourist”.

[@bryanstephens4800]

Just visited the NC the weekends of Neebs Live last month. A Docent spoke highly of you Drac.

[@cleverusername9369]

Proud North Carolinian here, thank you for this video. We're very proud of our Showboat here.

[@gj1234567899999]

I would like to see an engine breakdown on the pros and cons of different engines types. It’s crazy to me that they used turbo electric drives on ships way back then when this technology is today considered “new”.

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

Oh, it isn’t only them. I’ve seen diesel electric forklifts built in the Fifties. Worked beautifully, but the costs were too high for it to be a competitive drive train.

[@rogersmith7396]

Porshe wanted to use it in tanks but they had no copper. The US built prototypes.

[@mbr5742]

@@rogersmith7396 Crazy Ferdy DID use it in tanks (Ferdinant/Elefant, 90 build and in service, Maus with 2 build and E100 with one started)

[@grantmonsma3569]

I think turbine-electric powerplants come across as something very new because they slot nicely into modern requirements and benefit a lot from modern technologies. Using an electric transmission to allow both ends of your system to turn at their optimal speed has always been a desirable feature, but the advantages of such a system have to overcome the drawbacks of conversion losses and, as Drach mentions as being the killer factor here, weight and bulk. Predictably, power to weight ratios and reliability are better after eighty years, and there's more reason than ever to be hauling around gargantuan amounts of electrical power generation capacity, so it makes sense that more and more naval projects are looking at turbine- and diesel-electric powerplants.

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

I'm a bit surprised the extra weight of the turboelectric drive was a killer for it; wouldn't that've been more than made up for by the fuel weight saved by its ability to keep the turbines in their narrow power band at both battle _and_ cruising speeds (whereas geared turbines, with their single gear ratio, have to accept being well outside the power band at cruising speed - where even a battleship spends the vast majority of its time - in order to give max performance at battle speed)?

[@kemarisite]

18:44 "twenty main battery guns of the 12-inch type". This is getting down to the old hail of fire concept from the pre-dreadnought era, but without the rapidity of fire associated with 6-inch to 8-inch guns.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

You'd need to fire them in groups if you didn't want to mess up the hull, I think

[@lukahierl9857]

Enough guns to make Agincourt jelaous

[@Ael_Yu]

I absolutely love it when Adm Lee said "Stand aside, I'm coming through. This is Ching Lee" and Ching Lee'd all over the place

[@Marin3r101]

2022 called they want their joke back.

[@bohba13]

a fellow conisuier of all things fat and electric I see.

[@williamwallace9427]

There are a few truly master storytellers on KZbin ... drachinifel is one of them

[@rupertboleyn3885]

Of the three US fast battleship designs these are my favourites. The Iowas look too thin at the bow, and the South Dakotas look dumpy with their short hulls. It's a pity that they had such vibration problems.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

I like the South Dakotas because they look balanced. Less deck space means proportionally their guns look bigger and the funnel is almost dead center with the ship, while the NC's have their funnels stuck in the back.

[@johngregory4801]

You want vibration problems? Consider the vibrations USS Washington graced Kirishima with, full 16" salvo after full 16" salvo, all under the direction the The Sniper Admiral. "Beat up on my little brother, eh? EAT LEAD!"

[@scottwyatt2614]

My favorites as well. Having been born and raised in Washington State I am heavily biased in this, but that doesn't really matter. The North Carolina class were sleek and sexy; not short, fat, and dumpy looking like the South Dakota's and Iowa's. Very pretty grey ladies.

[@mrz80]

@@Edax_Royeaux When the Tennesees, and their half-sister West Virginia, were finally taken in hand for full on rebuilds mid-war, their appearance became very South-Dakota-esque, with the forward tower faired into a single funnel and the twin 5"-38 mounts. Big problem with the shorter hull on the South Dakotas was that, with the USN's fetish for anti-aircraft armament that sprouted like moss all over the place, and the crews to man all those new guns, and the magazine space to feed them, habitability went right overboard. The SDs were VERY crowded ships.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@mrz80 I was speaking of aesthetics only. If we go into design, the NCs weren't even armored against their own guns.

[@petestorz172]

It's interesting that the capabilities of the Kongo class were considered during the multi-iterative design process (or sausage-making) of the North Carolina class, since USS Washington did face and cause Kirishima to sink.

[@Pudentame]

I was in grade school when the North Carolina was to be scrapped and the campaign to save her was mounted. I remember contributing my meager allowance to the effort.

[@kirktierney]

Drach, how did you not go mad when researching this epic? The US serial considerations remind me of a little dog spinning round and round because of an overhead dog biscuit. I would, one day, like to understand the concept of sloped armour implementations so that I can imagine how the hosting ships were actually built. The idea of sloping makes sense, but not how it would appear in real life. Always a fan, TKT.

[@fancymclad1187]

I practically grew up on the north carolina. its always nice learning more about her.

[@khaelamensha3624]

Add the sound of a glass of rum being filled and the new intro is perfect. Love the whistle❤️ As usual great video. As always on Wednesdays I do not accept meeting until 4pm. Drachinifel rendez vous is prioritized! 😇😁

[@michaelsnyder3871]

In the answer about inclined armor, I recommend the pictures on Pg.128 of Sumrall's "Iowa Class Battleships". There are two good pictures that show how the transverse bulkhead to which the internal armor is to be attached are formed with angled edges. The Class A armor was rivetted to a Special Treatment Steel backing plate. The STS was then welded to the transverse bulkheads. The upper and lower belts also sat on a shelf to give them support. The exterior hull shell was then built on the outside of the armor plating. The hull plating outboard of the belt was also made of STS, 1.5" thick which could serve as a de-capping plate. STS could be welded without destroying the temper of the plate. Cement was pored between the two plates where the manufacturing tolerances in the cemented armor plates left gaps between them.

[@sethmerrell8888]

Hello, I live in Wilmington and I have picnics with the battleship all the time. I'm in love with the ship. I have so many darn pictures of it. I enjoyed listening to your discussion about the North Carolina class.😅

[@NoewerrATall]

I miss the old intro. . . 😢 Yes, I am aware of the copyright/IP issues going on behind the scenes. I think that it's terribly unfair that Drachinifel is having to deal with that, but I'm still going to be sad about the old intro. One of the best on KZbin.

[@TheJazsa80]

You are getting very good at these videos Mr Inifel. 5 Stars.

[@walterfaherty1678]

I have been amazed at the level.of detail and the interesting stories of each ship you have talked about. I have enjoyed your series as it is stays on point and does not get lost in the details about the ships,it gives me as a wargamer(Jutland by avalon hill at 11yo) a better appreciation of the ships and how they were designed and operated

[@StephenCole1916]

North Carolina is a favorite of mine, it was the first museum battleship I ever toured. I got there at the end of the day and was able to go from one end to the other by myself. Just taking it all in. One day I will return to get a more thorough experience.

[@ronhenderson4164]

Another great job Drach. I will incorporate this discussion in our Docent training. Thanks very much!

[@LazerWolf21]

My home state battleship, I always loved going out to see it with my Grandpa when I was younger.

[@gerardlabelle9626]

Well, this video certainly illustrates the famous Firepower-Protection-Mobility triangle. It feels like the US Navy explored every permutation, for every hull size between 25k and 40k tons.

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

11:50 - Pity about anyone who's manning the secondary battery when B or C turret fires back along the length of the ship, though.

[@toomanyuserids]

Parking a VW Beetle next to your mega gun apparent works whether you're talking a 16in barrel or the A-10s tank trimmer

[@McBruch]

Love that new Intro 🙏 cant wait for the others you wanna try

[@BishopStars]

Great museum ship. Tip top shape and knowledgeable staff. Wilmington, NC.

[@Dreadnought33]

All of this design's changes reminds me of myself playing Ultimate Admirals Dreadnoughts and trying to create a ship who doesn't exceed certain weight limitation

[@morganhale3434]

Watching this video reminded me of what it is to watch sausage being made. Battleships are an amazing breed of vessel, but the design process is slightly horrific in comparison to cruiser, carrier, and destroyer designs. The number of sea-going monstrosities proposed is amazing.

[@stephenandersen4625]

One man’s monstrosity is another’s sea queen. Except for the French Pre-dreadnoughts. Those were monstrosities

[@cavalierliberty6838]

All things considered, North Carolina is a beautiful ship.

[@johndeboyace7943]

All these gyrations by the bureau of ordnance came down to really one night in 1942 when a Japanese battleship/battlecruiser was found lacking. Maybe they should have paid more attention to torpedoes. Well hindsight is always 20/20.

[@wyattroncin941]

A battleship with three forward tripple turrets, with A underimposed, B wing mounted, and C superimposed and wing mounted, would have been WILD to see

[@dorn0531]

I wonder if it would have actually worked. I can imagine ammo hoists, blast damage & stability could have been issues

[@wyattroncin941]

@@dorn0531 they could have figured it out. I don't think it would be an Iowa beating design, but it's certainly an idea

[@dorn0531]

@@wyattroncin941 I agree that it could be made to work. I just wonder if it would be so awkward that it wouldn't be worth it. North Carolina, Iowa and HMS Vanguard were definitely much better designs for sure.

[@TerryCheever]

That was a brutal development process, well done in your presentation of it in an understandable yet lengthy manner.

[@RM-au9mm]

You have excelled yourself Drach !

[@princeoftonga]

Oh really liked that intro music for the Rum Ration👍👍

[@JamesSavik]

A huge factor affecting everyone's naval spending was the Great Depression. This factor alone would make an entire video. Another huge factor was the American Two Ocean Navy Act of 1940, which was signed into law and built the modern naval units necessary to fight the war.

[@mattwalker5289]

Sense she’s moored only 3 hours from me, I drove over to Wilmington last year to see her, too. If anyone ever has the opportunity to visit the North Carolina, I highly recommend it! Very informative, and it’s good to see that she’s taken care of. Also, not too terribly far south, you could go to Charleston and visit the CV-10 USS Yorktown. As of the last time I visited her, which was quite a while now and it may have since changed, she was not quite as well preserved, unfortunately, but absolutely still worth a visit!

[@bixby9797]

This is one of the best history of battle ships I've seen online.

[@johndriscoll3933]

The new intro music is an improvement over its predecessor

[@B1ENTERTAINMENT30]

they straight up said "never let them know your next move" and created one of my top favorite battleship designs

[@Aelxi]

WASHINGTON FOR THE SNIPE BABYYYYYYYYY

[@ph89787]

No body bullies South Dakota except her.

[@thcdreams654]

I like the music man. I dont care what anybody says. Keep up the good work brodie.

[@johnpreusser6740]

Fantastic video Drach! This development of BBs during the Roaring Twenties and Great Depression, along with the Treaty, hampered options The Nelson style I understand- but- 40 degrees of blind spot at the stern is a significant liability. Some of the other designs were amazing- that battleship on top and carrier in the middle? Only in Star Wars do we see it- FDRs first reelection campaign gave us the triple 50 16in rifles. BB 55 is a great monument, and it was a pleasure to hang out with your fans on that mess deck.

[@Brendan200]

On the way to Florida we went through Texas then Alabama i got to see uss Alabama in mobile the first big WW2 I've ever seen

[@timandellenmoran1213]

Awesome, this was great Drach! Thanks!!

[@Cbabilon675]

Now that's what you call an opening ovation😊😊❤

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

4:30 - Nobody having yet realized at this point that capital-ship-deck-armor penetration only really comes into play at ranges long enough for the enemy to see you firing and get out of the way.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

It was more designed as protection against bombs

[@bluemarlin8138]

I guess HMS Glorious didn’t get the memo.

[@Ah01]

You can tell that to uss Arizona, penetrated by a 16inch projectile converted into an aerial bomb

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

​@@Ah01 Which would've been a complete nonissue if she'd be underway and able to evade. You don't need particularly-thick deck armor to stop bombs dropped from low enough to actually _hit_ a maneuvering capital ship.

[@bkjeong4302]

This is why the 16”/50 gun actually takes away from the deck penetration potential of the superheavy shell.

[@reaperking2121]

For all the design hell that these ships went through the end product was something truly exceptional. Sure they weren’t an Iowa or South Dakota Class but they could escort Carriers , duke it out with other battleships and had a phenomenal as armament

[@SRR-5657]

Dude im currently working on a video thays a general guide to American Fast Battleships and i was looking for more info on NCs than the standard factoids about how they ended up under armored and with 16" guns and then you go and drop this, thanks!

[@thebluntrappa]

imagine designing a whole massive ship. a whole team of people doing all that math and those drawings by hand. then somebody is just like "nah we chose a different one" or " "jk we actually aren't building ship" . that must have been a rough day at work.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

The Nelsons as battlecarriers seems hella cursed

[@nbn461]

The Nelsons in general were cursed design wise as it is.

[@silverhost9782]

​@@nbn461Cursed? That's a strange way of spelling 'blessed'

[@toawing]

​@@silverhost9782I don't think the navy would agree in the early thirties. Course by ww2 everything was sorted

[@madkoala2130]

@@nbn461 more like entire concept form what Nelson's came from is cursed. Those planed N3/G3 battlecrusiers had layout of early battleships with everything that are not main armament is on the back and conning tower between turrets 3 and 2.

[@bluemarlin8138]

@@madkoala2130In ship-on-ship actions, the layout really isn’t that bad. It was pretty unlikely that the RN (especially the RN with G3s and N3s) was going to be running away from anyone for the foreseeable future, and therefore they didn’t have much of a need to fire the main armament directly astern. It would have only been a potential problem in a melee action like the ones off Guadalcanal. The only other real issue going into WWII would have been the lack of a forward arc for heavy AA guns, but this was true for most battleships to a lesser extent.

[@robertbertagna1672]

Thanks!

[@terrygardner3031]

Please please have an episode on why they had the vibration problems.

[@scale_model_apprentice]

One day, I'd like to build a 1/350 scale model of the original North Carolina design, with quadruple 14" turrets, like what appears in World of Warships as USS Florida.

[@williamgironda4456]

Design 16, USS Florida, my favorite Tier 7 BB in WoW Blitz

[@gavinrewell9703]

This is incredible. The amount of designs is astounding.

[@lancethompson6839]

Once again, thorough and fascinating research. Thanks for posting!

[@jeffholloway3882]

Great video. Interesting on how the ships came to be.

[@mitchm4992]

29:35 wave troughs exposing the magazines? Naaaahhhhh, that could never be a real problem

[@robertstone9988]

I miss the old intro but im sure ill get used to this😢

[@PointyHairedJedi]

That staggered turret Nelson style design... I'm suddenly having inspiration for UA Dreadnoughts.

[@olinzuercher6344]

I found it amusing to see that VW Bug beside that collection of big guns, certainly a dramatic demonstration of scale

[@NoewerrATall]

Yes, that was an excellent picture!

[@notshapedforsportivetricks2912]

The VeeDub is trolling the guns ... "I can see your future, brother "

[@vipondiu]

19:28 are those pop-up main battery turrets with a pop-up superstructure in the middle of the carrier deck? I love this idea. Bonkers, but lovely. I would like to know more about it

[@charleslarrivee2908]

I think I facepalmed three or four times in this video. That's one facepalm for every time you said "battlecarrier" plus one for how you mentioned a "last despairing attempt to return to 20 knots"

[@brianbooth4435]

An excellent analysis, as usual.

[@gatorg1]

I have been considering going back to re-visit this ship. I was very sad to find out that they no longer do the fireworks/light show at night.

[@johnpreusser6740]

I'd recommend checking it out on the 4th of July- go early

[@davidsmcwilliams]

I would love to watch a video on how the designers were calculating the theoretical weights of these different proposed designs.

[@paulbade3566]

It would be interesting to compare modern computer modeling results on these designs with the paper and slide rule work done then, particularly calculations of speed and stability.

[@michaelsnyder3871]

It should be noted that if the BB55 had been armed with a 14" gun, it would have been an L/50 modern design equivalent to the 16" Mk.6 and Mk.7 guns. It also would have been given a "super-heavy shell" of between 1,800 and 1,850 lbs fired at a new gun velocity of 2,500 fps. Long range penetration by this gun would have been sufficient to counter all then known Japanese capital ships, including the "Nagato" class. If she had carried such guns into the Battle of Second Guadalcanal, given the exact same fire control system, she would have fired around 33% more shells, which meant that she would have put at least 27 shells into IJNS Kirishima, more than sufficient to inflict similar damage. This 14" gun would have been superior to all extant 14" guns and all 15"/38cm guns except the high performance Italian Mod.34.

[@RemcovandeLangenberg]

Thank you for, again, a great enlightening documentary...

[@jeffbybee5207]

Like the quieter intro music. Thankyou drach for your great work

[@mastermariner7813]

One wonders how many naval architects working on the class committed suicide with all the changes...

[@rupertboleyn3885]

Given the times, and the lack of work in general, and especially in naval design and construction, I suspect they were quite happy to keep producing design studies ad infinitum.

[@benjamin4673]

I know it means "plotting room" but the armor layout with "plot" on it makes me think they are going to rely on plot armor .... woe be the sailors under that plan.

[@GeordieSwordsman]

Seems to have worked out alright for Warspite.

[@davidwright7193]

Worked fine for HMS New Zealand though Invincible and Queen Mary pointed up the weaknesses of the concept

[@donmarfil9986]

I like that intro.

[@DB-pr4rc]

Whatever the circumstances these new opening themes are bangers

[@carolecarr5210]

I had a tour of the USS North Carolina at Wilmington by a sailor who spent 2 1/2 years on it during WW 2.

[@notshapedforsportivetricks2912]

The design at 22:49 reminds me of something, but I can't think what. The designer had definitely been staying in a block of flats named after an English queen however. Queen Mary's Mansions?

[@kommandantgalileo]

someone should draw a Nelson class as the USN thought they would be.

[@libraeotequever3pointoh95]

Interesting video subject. Looking forward to the next video.

[@wildancrazy159]

Great video as usual! Have a question, can anyone say what ship design is the model at 21:28 the two gentlemen discussing? It's very strange and strangely pretty, but seems deck space is virtually empty.

[@mlmmt]

Ok, note to somebody in WOWS, *PUT THAT TRIPLE SUPERFIRING SHIP IN!!!*

[@AlbertD711]

Outstanding video. Thank you

[@pjg43]

Drach! Please do an episode on the drivetrain Vibrations. Freedman’s book mentions it but I’m sure your presentation would surpass that.

[@hoppish088]

Please tell the story of vibration nightmare of the North Carolina class. Also include a theoretical earlier deployment to the Pacific and what it might have meant at Coral Sea or Midway and the early battles at Guadalcanal, if the ships had been properly designed without the problem and entered service as planned. And you are right USS North Carolina is wonderful way to spend a day. She is superbly maintained.

[@patrickpetsinger2439]

I visited that ship on an off day during my time in service. I'm glad I did it.

[@patrickpetsinger2439]

This was about 10 years ago

[@jmiller475]

Excellent explanation thanks

[@eskimo05w]

@3:15 I like the German made Volkswagen Beetle in the left hand corner. Must be a post-war image.

[@spiffywolf2850]

I love how confused they were by the Nelsons lol.

[@cupajoe7258]

Thanks Drach, enjoyed the video as usual! Still getting used to new music