The Development of US Navy Tactics (1895-1939) - From Small Beginnings...

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

Steak & kidney pie premade or homemade?

[@piritskenyer]

Hello Drach, I have a what-if question for you, regarding guns. Suppose in 1940, after Mers-el-Kebir a patriotic but disgruntled French naval officer decides that he is going to go to the US Navy instead of the RN, delivering them the plans for the 330mm/52 Mle 31 guns. These have stupidly high penetration, a fairly powerful explosive charge, are mechanically speaking rather accurate (when muzzleblast interference isn't a thing) and are relatively light. Could the USN have decided to put the weapons on the Alaskas instead of the 12"/50 Mk 8's? Supposing they would have done so, how would the Alaskas have been different? Would the opportunity have sped up their building program (seeing that the 12" only started development in 1939, and the 330mm would be ready to go)?

[@fguocokgyloeu4817]

I have heard that 6 inch guns even in DP mounts are substantially less effective at the anti-aircraft role than 5 inch due to the slower tracking and reloading for a shell that is most likely not going to explode anywhere near its target anyway. Is this true? If so, with hindsight, would vessels armed with 6 inch DP guns have been better off with 5 inch DP guns in WW2, sacrificing surface/bombardment firepower for anti-aircraft firepower?

[@Foxttellio]

Verry important question! If kamchatka somehow would be correct about torpedo boats, what would that mean for the second pacific squadron?

[@OrbitalAstronaut]

Could you spare a world for Philo McGiffin? He was a naval advisor during the first Sino-Japanese war. Do you think the beiyang fleet could have achieved victory over the combined fleet if they had support from the other qing fleets and were given proper training and funding prior to the conflict? How bad was the problem with corruption? I’ve heard about the naval budget going to pleasure craft and problems with ammo quality control…

[@seafodder6129]

Good job on letting your guest complete his thoughts without pointless interruptions or time constraints! If only more interviewers would do the same...

[@jeebus6263]

Scott Kesterson, Dave Ruben, ...

[@1_2_die2]

And if only people would finally use a proper headset -.- sound quality of a trash bin.

[@serban031]

@@1_2_die2 nooot quite sure what you’re on about. Both sound fine and are easy to follow and understand

[@deathhog]

@@serban031 Right, he's complaining about a lack of proper audio on other people's interviews, I think.

[@falloutghoul1]

If the sequel isn't titled "...to Big Sticks", I swear...

[@SoloRenegade]

I second that

[@Pain-pr4rw]

Thirded

[@5peciesunkn0wn]

Fourthed!

[@Captain11890]

A vote will now be taken. All in favor say “USA”.

[@EricDKaufman]

agreed

[@George_M_]

It's great that the old style historians are finally getting on board with the modern style of informing the masses. Well done getting so many on board, Drach.

[@TchaikovskyFDR]

@kevin barker P u b l i s h or P e r i s h

[@robertmills8640]

It's good to see that the stature of ur channel has reached the point that important navel historians are happy to appear on it😁🎉

[@watchface6836]

@kevin barker Which video is that?

[@Klajnepojken]

Lots of stuff to dig from navels, not only lint!

[@bobsled3000]

@@watchface6836 kzbin.info/www/bejne/enaqo51ni8xkb7c this one

[@rolfs2165]

For _navel_ historians this feels like the wrong channel, though. You'd rather expect those with one of the medical youtubers. :P

[@vaclav_fejt]

@@Klajnepojken Fun fact: If you shave your belly, a lot less fluff from shirts gets caught in your belly button.

[@amerigo88]

A software consultant takes his "rapid obsolescence era" perspective from 2021 to the naval arms race of the 1890s to 1910s. He is right at home.

[@narobii9815]

Its amazing how many ships even from the 1850s didnt last in service for more than 2 decades before being pulled from service to be scrapped.

[@Legitpenguins99]

Not to mention small arms as well. From the 1880s-1900s rifle and small arm technology advanced so quickly that the super modern and advanced French 1886 Lebel was made obsolescent after 2 years by the German 1888 Commission Rifle

[@michaelsheal4015]

@@Legitpenguins99 Or How the Portuguese go from having adopted the most advance black powder rifle in the world just for the French to do every thing they did and just added smokeless powder making what they did obsolescent in less then year

[@jamesharding3459]

Every time one of these guests comes on, the stack of books I’m working my way through grows. I see this as an absolute win.

[@stefanlaskowski6660]

I read Learning War last month. Terrific book. I expected it to be a dry, difficult read, but it was highly readable.

[@jamesharding3459]

@kevin barker There’s even a slight resemblance :)

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Drach has truly become a force within the world of Naval history. Bravo!!!!

[@73Trident]

IMO the best there is.

[@admiraltiberius1989]

@@73Trident while I've loved all his guests so far, its a shame he never got that interview with Hornfischer.

[@stevewindisch7400]

"A rising tide raises all ships" ;) I would bet that naval historians everywhere are very glad to see Drach's successes.

[@ovk-ih1zp]

Congrats on achieving a status on this rather crappy platform to draw the attention of some of the best naval historians around. It's a great lose to the naval enthusiasts at large that Mr. Hornfisher passed before you were able to set up an interview with him as well, but he left us more than a few great books to remember him by. They say that the Internet remembers everything, Your ability to get such skilled people like Mr. Hone & John Parshall is just flat out a gift to both your audience & humanity a a whole. Congratulations, Well done, & carry on.

[@TheopolisQSmith]

“Rather crappy platform” ?

[@JazzWithJakeInSF]

@@TheopolisQSmith Have you looked around the rest of the place? Most comment sections are a horror show.

[@tominiowa2513]

@kevin barker - Wait until Drach finally Comes to America and takes pictures of all the Iowa Class's "naughty bits".

[@tominiowa2513]

@@TheopolisQSmith - When you know what G😬😬gle really is...

[@barrydysert2974]

AGREED!:-) 🖖

[@HEDGE1011]

Great job with this interview, Drach. I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to hear a knowledgeable interviewer actually allow an expert guest to fully answer the questions posed and make his points. Thank you!

[@robinstevenson6690]

Thank you for putting the photographs on the screen so that we're not just watching two "talking heads." You have a wonderful gift for finding the perfect photos to show during your videos, and this helps to make some of these "talking heads" videos a lot more watchable!

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

Navy: A battleship for every state Congress: Aight, Imma stop you right there

[@joubertblos1]

The Sufjan Stevens School of Naval Budgeting

[@seanarano4754]

poor montana...

[@MsTokyoBlue]

Every state except Montana. Granted they got a Frank Zappa song as a consolation prize but it took a few decades.

[@amerigo88]

"Yeah Congress, but we expect to be at war with Germany, Japan, and the British Empire in the 1920s. You know what, not 48 battleships, make it 84."

[@bkjeong4302]

@@MsTokyoBlue Montana not being built was a GOOD thing. Otherwise they would have the dishonour of being associated with a pointless, obsolete-upon-launch and wasteful ship. The same applies to the state of Iowa except in that case the ship did get built when it really shouldn’t have been (since there really was nothing the Iowas could do, INCLUDING carrier escort, that other ships couldn’t have done better).

[@donsambo5488]

This format of video is quickly becoming a favorite of mine from you. I think it's an excellent compliment to your wonderful mainstay solo lectures that I love so much. Thanks to Trent for his time and knowledge.

[@middleway5271]

These interviews are really the best.

[@RadioactiveSherbet]

30:19 Congress going "Here's a ton of money. Go to town on it." is like all the stars aligning, getting a triple rainbow, then the Aurora Borealis at the same time.

[@timandsuzidickey9358]

Trent Hone on the development of the USN's tactics and planning from its rebirth to the start of WW2....Great show !!!

[@jayadkisson2075]

Trent's book was quite insightful and worthwhile, and greatly enjoyed his interview.

[@timothyboles6457]

Excellent discussion. I can't wait until part 2. It's incredible to think about the shear growth of the United States Navy in this time frame. And what had to be built, and more importantly what had to be learned. And how these lessons became acutely important in December of 1941.

[@mindsharp44]

Really love the interview videos. Glad to see the channel bringing in more and more authorities with great insight and information.

[@emmgeevideo]

I love to watch KZbin videos with real experts that you can learn from and also be entertained by. Thank you.

[@bigsarge2085]

Your guest "lectures" are very informative. As a student of history and a veteran, I truly enjoy these. You are already a great host, getting better each time! Keep up the good work.

[@ironteacup2569]

On a bus for a few hours this is a major morale booster! Thank you

[@tominiowa2513]

Drach of course started the channel to provide content to listen to while using mass transit.

[@ironteacup2569]

@@tominiowa2513 I use it all the time like an audiobook/podcast. He has been successful in doing this

[@kpdubbs7117]

Good, I was wondering what I would do tonight after work. Thanks Drach!

[@thomasknobbe2108]

Human memory is facilitated through meaning and organization, and storytelling has been the way to do it since time immemorial. Thanks for this wonderful overview of how the US Navy grew from the curious flotilla of boats that beat the Spanish at Manilla Bay to Pearl Harbor. Having been trying to understand WWII as it was fought in New Guinea and the Solomon Islands, that picture of the Navy on the friendly visit to Australia gives me an extra bit of understanding as how the Australians and the Americans came to work together so well and so quickly.

[@GlorfindelofGondolin]

This is where the fun begins.

[@cigbhungus3359]

Wow Glorfindel, I never knew you liked naval history

[@GlorfindelofGondolin]

@@cigbhungus3359 😉

[@tominiowa2513]

@@cigbhungus3359 - More fun than base jumping without a parachute in company with a Balrog.

[@gordonbutler5142]

These discussions with historians are wonderful. I have bought more than a few books of your interviewees based on them.

[@vridiantoast7096]

Life simple: Drach shows book I require to read, I buy, and enjoy!

[@timandsuzidickey9358]

Drach.... Trent Hone on the development of the USN's tactics and planning from its rebirth to the start of WW2....Great show !!!

[@robbiealixsantos]

Thanks for the upload! Whenever your videos pop up on my feed I know there is going to be at least an hour of my day where I feel like a sophisticated intellectual

[@jonljacobi]

It’s fun watching two guys who really know their stuff.

[@VersusARCH]

"Use a gun... And if that doesn't work - use more gun... And damn the torpedoes!"

[@Vagabond820]

I can hear the kill counter ticking as it counts upward.

[@mayorgeneralramirez1997]

- Capt. Dell Conagher, USS Teufort

[@f1b0nacc1sequence7]

This is one of the more valuable histories I have read, I cannot recommend it strongly enough...

[@Jon.A.Scholt]

Another Keg-sized 'Rum Ration' episode?Yes, please! To follow this analogy further; Drach would have made us all alcoholics who died of alcohol poising as a result of these monster 'Rum Ration' eps.

[@tominiowa2513]

Imagine if Drach had a full keg of Irn Bru at the start of a live Drydock session. 😮

[@dh1040]

I am hanging in there, barely. My liver hates Drach. Cheers to the Rum Ration.

[@robertslugg8361]

@@dh1040 My rum ration stopped 13,655 days ago, but I'm still here for the show. Still amazing how so much of the Pacific war was decided by two torpedoes, one that worked really well and one that didn't work at all.

[@richardsaunders143]

I read his book because the historian interviewed for the Battle of Midway mentioned him. Great book and very interesting interview. Thanks for doing this.

[@GrumpyGrobbyGamer]

Absolutely fascinating conversation! I really enjoyed this topic. Thanks both of you.

[@benjaminlanden7425]

Thank you. Naval history is so interesting!

[@tominiowa2513]

@kevin barker - A local grocery store once advertised "naval oranges" - fighting off floating oranges armed with cannons must have been the "orange" fleet problem. 😜

[@potatosinnato1767]

A suprise to be sure, but a welcome one

[@Dirt1061]

Hope there is one for WWII. Really interested in how quickly things evolve whats the shooting starts.

[@leonpeters-malone3054]

Well, damn, I've got two of Wayne Hughes books. Fleet Tactics and Coastal Combat and Fleet Tactics and Naval Operations. Sorry to hear of his passing. My thoughts to his friends and family. Fair winds to man himself, whatever's on the other side.

[@jonathanstrong4812]

a shame about that he was pretty-well knew his stuff

[@pauldamm3345]

Drachinifel, I love your channel. You make me want to renew my studies. I feel as if I'm getting an education that is better on your channel than i could from an American university. Certainly better than csu-pueblo and Arizona state university. I love hearing from you.

[@ewetoo]

This was a really interesting and thought-provoking conversation, much enjoyed!

[@davemehelas5053]

Drach just throws him a question and he lays it all out in detail

[@HEDGE1011]

Which is a good thing; I’m thrilled Drach actually lets him answer the question.

[@cavscout888]

Great guest, thanks!!!

[@mastermariner7813]

These interviews are excellent. Thank to both of you.

[@purpleunicornmedia]

Excellent video! Great questions and really detailed answers.

[@rudywoodcraft9553]

Very enjoyable interview thanks to you both!

[@lumpusmaximus8257]

Wonderful book! I bought it about two months based on Drac's recommendation :)

[@lumpusmaximus8257]

Same - well worth the read

[@Pos3id0n.]

Absolute bangers drach, as always

[@agesflow6815]

Thank you, Drachinifel.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

US Naval Policy from 1776 to 1895: "Start from scratch each time because navies are expensive." US Naval Policy from 1895 onwards: "Huh this empire thing is kinda fun..."

[@navi8141]

Top rate content. This guest was more articulate than most.

[@michaelsommers2356]

It's interesting how many influential books on naval topics recently have been written by amateurs. There was Miller, Parshall and Tully, and others I can't think of right now, and now Hone.

[@alexrennison8070]

Really learned a lot from this series! Amazing!

[@tremor3258]

Excellent discussion. Politics, world and otherwise always such a factor on top of material constraints, easy to ignore in hindsight.

[@D1Necromancer]

A very informative documentary. I learned quite a bit from this. Hope you have more experts on your channel soon.

[@KB9813]

Trent comment on the US introducing a range keeper in 1916 makes me want a video with a in depth dive into central fire control development of the major powers from like 1900 to 1945 including radar guided gunnery and how they compare in performance. It's something I've always wondered.

[@ajahrdurlan655]

Dam son I am geeking out already! I am a history buff and thoroughly enjoy what you bring to the table. outstanding!

[@TerryDowne]

I've been reading Friedman's "British Battleships," and he reports that in the early years of WWII many of the older RN battleships were also in mediocre physical condition. Most of the "R's" never got full modernization, and even the younger Rodney and Nelson had leaks and so on. Deferred maintenance and modernization was a problem for the battle lines of both the USN and the RN.

[@Flinke_Fink]

I really like listening to your longer vids:)

[@davedeford9865]

Gotta love authors who are actually good at speaking.

[@wolfetwain]

Very interesting discussion. Thank you!

[@victorydaydeepstate]

You have a top notch guests

[@paulwallis7586]

Genealogy of US Navy acquisitions, design, and other drivers, and pretty similar to this day. Fascinating stuff.

[@derhesligebonsaibaum]

Very nice guest!

[@jamestoomer1330]

I see that hammerhead class corvette on the shelf behind you drach. Nice.

[@jefferynelson]

Good guest Drach.

[@S_M_360]

Great one, Drach!

[@mahbriggs]

The late Robert Conroy wrote two alternative history books, 1901, about a German Invasion of New England for territorial gains from the USA elsewhere, and 1920: America's Great War. Both quite enjoyable, and (in my opinion) a quite informative blending of fact and fiction. 1901 was the first I had heard that a German War around that time period was considered a serious possibility by both sides. And yes, I now have a new book to buy and add to my stack that unfortunately seems to be getting taller! Fortunately I now have about six weeks of recuperation time to catch up!

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

15:02 *INVADE.... Profit?* _To be fair, that's always been Germany's default war plan for most wars_

[@rictusmetallicus]

Who else's plan is this not?

[@ovk-ih1zp]

To be fair that's EVERYONE'S default war plan boiled down to the most basic level. The hard part is how well you handle the chaos that occurs once the friction of to opposing ideologies, philosophies' & national structure start grinding against each other. War is a game no one succeeds at, they just survive it. The only way to win this game is to not play, but the other guy gets a vote in that as well.

[@cartmann94]

Ah, yes. operational plan 3 of 1903. Bomb Manhattan and ocupy Boston. And Assuming that the Royal Navy would be friendly letting 60 ships and 100k germans pass through.

[@tominiowa2513]

@A Fels - Much more could be said on Germany's alleged aggression, but it would fall on deaf ears due to cognitive dissonance so why bother. (Short version - let's you and him fight).

[@richardanderson2742]

@A Fels Yes we know that Otto von Bismarck was a poor innocent that was picked on by his neighbors (NOT). His long, long string of wars were focused on building alliances with other German states leading to establishing a united Germany with Prussia led by him at the helm. I should be grateful to him, since my mother's family was from Lorraine and after being burned out yet again by the Prussians they moved to the USA.

[@davidbrennan660]

No fair weather gunnery on this video. I hope Congress gives enough funding for this Video. I am mindful of a surprise Japanese Air Attack.

[@johnshepherd8687]

I have started reading Mr. Hone's book and I see that a key element of dynamic systems is not explicitly discussed in Chapter one. Dynamical systems exhibit chaotic behavior. It is my understanding that chaotic behavior may result in emergent behavior but it is not limited to that. Chaos means that a system may be pushed from one state to another by random events. The old butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil that ends up destroying Galveston in the great hurricane of 1900 thing. Chaos leads to unpredictability which undermines heuristic decision making. There is no safe to fail system only more or less robust systems.

Very interesting Video. As far as I know the split between engenering officers and line officers persisted in the geraman imperial navy all the way through WW1. Looking forward to the second Video and reading the book

[@patricklenigan4309]

Drachinifel, at some point, you NEED to consider playing Rule the Waves 2. With your knowledge of 18th century naval history and development, you would enjoy it!

[@bobjk3455]

well in 1895 they were trying to incorporate tactics for dynamite guns on the USS Vesuvius.

[@stevevalley7835]

Very interesting interview. Thanks for offering it. A couple observations: no-one is ever fully prepared for war. I have yet to hear a General or Admiral *not* say "if we had had another year (or two), to prepare, we would have been in a better position". As a wise man once said "no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy". wrt the USN figuring out that a thrust across the Pacific to defend the Philippines or Guam would run a gauntlet of Japanese held islands: the Marianas and Carolines had been Spanish colonies prior to 1899. With the US having paid Spain to give up it's claims to the Philippines and Guam for payment of some $12M, Spain sold the Marianas and Carolines to Germany for about $4M. Japan, as an ally of the UK, rolled up these German colonies in WWI, and continued to hold them under a League of Nations mandate. The US could have avoided that situation by buying all the Spanish colonies in 1899, rather than cherry picking the two properties they did, thus preventing any potential enemy sitting astride the supply lines to the Philippines. wrt the US having bases in the Caribbean: I did some back of the envelope calculations of the value of all the UK held islands, plus British Honduras, by extrapolating what the US paid Denmark for the Virgin Islands in 1917. As it turned out, the total value of the West Indies colonies was just about equal to the debt the UK owed the US after WWI. At the same time, Arthur Balfour wrote a note to the French ambassador to the UK saying that, if it was up to the UK, it would forgive France's debt to the UK, and forego reparations from Germany, but, as the US was demanding repayment in full, with interest, in cash, the UK needed the cash from France. If the UK had signed over the colonies to the US, it would wash out the UK's debt to the US. Then the UK could follow through on Balfour's proposal and cancel all the debts owed it by it's allies, because, again, allied debts to the UK were almost exactly what the UK owed the US, so, again, the debts wash out. Then the Caribbean becomes essentially a US lake. This colony for debt swap was widely discussed in the press at the time, but Lloyd-George and President Harding both said "no". On the USN's severe shortage of scouts: this became glaringly evident in a pair of exercises in early 1916, when the weather was less than ideal. The DDs that were supposed to do the scouting were forced back to port, while the BBs plowed ahead, with no idea what lay over the horizon. It did not go well for the "attacking" force. Shortly after the US entered WWI, capital ship construction was given much lower priority, so that resources could be focused on addressing the US' deficiency in scouting and ASW forces. Three of the Colorado class, which had not been laid down, were postponed until after the war, and work on Maryland, Tennessee and California was slowed to a crawl. Maryland and Tennessee were laid down in April and May, respectively, of 1917, days or weeks after the US' declaration of war, escaping the postponement that delayed the other three Coloradoes. Germany had resumed unrestricted submarine warfare Feb 1, announcing it's intention to sink without warning neutral flagged ships, including those from the US, in the designated war zone, reneging on a promise made in 1915. As if that was not enough of a defacto declaration of war on the US, the Zimmerman telegram was a further provocation. Bottom line, unlike 1941, the US' declaration of war in April was not a response to a surprise, but a culmination of a long series of provocations that afforded the US plenty of time for planning prior to making the declaration. I can't help but wonder if there was discussion in the Wilson administration and the Navy Department to take a page from the Admiralty's book of 1914 and cancel the Tennessees and Coloradoes outright, for the same reasons, before Tennessee and Maryland were laid down, and scrapping California on the slipway (a photo from March of 17 shows all that had been assembled of California was the keel and bottom of the hull), so that three more slipways, steel and manpower would be available to address the USN's critical shortage of smaller ships.

[@johnshepherd8687]

"You go to war with the forces you have not the forces you wish you had." Donald Rumsfeld

[@stevevalley7835]

@@johnshepherd8687 yes. That's what I keep telling my Canadian friend when he cries about how old and decrepit the four pipers were that FDR gave the UK. My point about the Marianas and Carolines, for instance, is that the US could have scooped them all up in 98, because Spain did not have the wherewithal to say "no", but left the supply lines to the Philippines open to being cut by another power holding those islands.

[@josephshines3427]

Very good, thank you.

[@5kehhn]

Quite well done!

[@arneldobumatay3702]

I hope there will be a Part 2 covering Pearl to V-J Day.

[@ajahrdurlan655]

Oh dam son this is awesome! I am a history geek and your channel is awesome, sir!

[@6thsavage]

Just moved to Newport Rhode Island. Suddenly, these videos feel more…adjacent somehow. Always enjoyed them though

[@matismf]

Then there is the David Taylor Naval Ship R&D Center in Carderock, MD...

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

As always, we'll done sir.

[@Humorism1]

I really hope this books winds up on audible, I'll get through it much faster if I can listen to it while commuting.

[@davidtrail4731]

It would be interesting to hear what plans the Royal Navy had for the Anglo American war of the 20s

[@OkaNieba]

Really Interesting Stuff

[@jackray1337]

Thank you.

[@Thumpalumpacus]

Excellent!

[@cartmann94]

Good to watch this video. You would have think that the only US Navy strategy was to rush in and shoot wildly with their big guns, Yosemite Sam style.

[@JazzWithJakeInSF]

That would be Bill Halsey, but with carriers.

[@andysatrioajie7886]

just the first 5 minutes and i already learn something.

[@sanitarycockroach9038]

Big Stick Energy in this stream. BULLY!!!

[@whya2ndaccount]

USN vs RN would be an application of Train hard, Fight easy. Having a "near peer" OPFOR forces you to be serious. If the USN planned to fight say Iceland it would not have proved beneficial against the IJN. This continues today with say the Large Scale Global Exercise, Ex Talisman Sabre, etc.

[@Kuristina_M]

Dinner time watch. Dinner will be awesome

[@alexgorski1806]

Akron and Macon, short lived and doomed by poor Officer Choices, could have been some of the most powerful scouting assets in the start of WW2

[@merafirewing6591]

And also for axing the new and improved version.

[@zachbieber9582]

I think “fifty battleship fleet” has a nice ring to it.

[@mpetersen6]

Better 50 Starships.

[@michelangelobuonarroti4958]

56:19 absolutely blessed frame freeze

[@mikeslattery8715]

Platforms matter back then and most definitely today also!

[@malkomalkavian]

I like a nice five minute guide :)

[@issacfoster1113]

I haven't finish watching but I know the last tactic. "Swarm like a bee". ft. Yamato

[@isaaclao2380]

Both the Air combat side and surface engagment XD

[@tominiowa2513]

I have watched conflicting documentaries on Yamato. In one she was used to build a spaceship in secret to fight off an alien invasion, while in the other she was still in use this century as a training ship for high school girls who wish to become Blue Mermaids in the future.

[@Colonel_Overkill]

I think the admirals at Guadalcanal didnt get or intentionally lost/burned the memo about common cause and working together without prior relationship....