The disastrous redesign of Pakistan’s rivers

[@juusan8078]

As a hydrologist and water resource engineer, this really hits close to me. Most of the time, we engineers understand the problem/s and can always produce holistic solutions to water resource management. But unfortunately, we always hit the wall of politics, bureaucracy, corruption, and uninformed decision-makers. I really wish we experts can really have the final say on matters of water resource management. I wish everyone especially politicians can understand that water doesn't care about your politics, religion, or affiliation. We must always remember that "we all live downstream".

[@theastuteangler]

You keep using this word "always". I dont think it means what you think it means.

[@puraLusa]

@Zaydan Alfariz u have a point. But I think he is referring more to efficiency and improvement of the sistem, plus more safety and regulation (technical stuff) as opposed to more of the same sistem. Meaning, maintenance and improvement as opposed of adding on.

[@puraLusa]

@Zaydan Alfariz ya, having a bit more control in family planing would help, but I don't think pak is ready for that due to religious leaders position about that.

[@puraLusa]

@Zaydan Alfariz I know, it's why I think it would only be possible as something thru the state and for free. But not all societies are open for it, it ends up as a political discussion of back and forward with name calling and emotions running high as opposed of a national projects for the future. Very difficult situation. And other places the demographics are going the opposite direction 🤷‍♀️

[@huhulalammm]

sometimes you "experts" are the ones who commit the most corruption. you keep talking about engineers wanting to take holistic approach but when it comes to data collection, talking to the root level people, engineer supervisors just overlook them, play favorite, either prolong the projects or shorten the projects unnecessarily. at least i have been on enough projects to know this. sometimes experts just transfer the blame on decision makers or politicians and play victim. it is getting annoying really.

[@ymi_yugy3133]

The criticism of British colonialism are of course valid, but relying on 150 year old traditional knowledge and trying to turn back to a "natural" state of things is unlikely to yield satisfactory results. Water-engineering drastically increased the amount of farmable land, that is now needed to feed Pakistan's vastly larger population. The struggle over grain exports from Ukraine and Russia have shown how dangerous an over reliance on food imports can be particularly for poorer countries. With Pakistan's economy reliant on agriculture, there is also the risk of an economic crisis, that could have similarly severe impacts as some of these natural disasters. Building a water management system with the modest means of a developing economy that equitably provides enough water to irrigate enough land to feed people in a world that is plagued by ever more extreme weather events, seems like a task with impossible constraints. With no clear solution in sight, arguments against the proposed solution need to be more substantial than "it's unnatural and the British came up with it".

[@tubester4567]

I agree. Its kind of funny how they pretend pre-colonial Pakistanis(Indians) had it all figured out when millions of people regularly died from famine and floods before the British arrived. .

[@crackedemerald4930]

I'd like to believe we went a long way since then, and the British weren't building the irrigation system to be equitable in the first place.

[@anandisrocking007]

I am also indian and ya the British did bad thing it's about time people and politicians stop use them as an excuse of their incompitance and also this is not colonial mindset but industrial mindset and the first industrial countries just happened to be the colonial countries.

[@St3v3NWL]

No it is invalid. They are already on their own for almost 100 years, the fault is on them

[@kkkk25yearsago79]

this Isn't Britsh fault She proposed indigenous solution What indigenous 😂

[@baggern]

but wouldn't rolling back the "modern" irrigation systems mean also going back to subsistence farming + fewer people being able to be sustained by pakistans acres?

[@uncertaintyunravelled8273]

The issue is that the modern method is short sighted.

[@RK-cj4oc]

Yes. but Pakistans area simply is not capable of sustaining over 200 million people. Pakistani's simply should have less childeren.

[@Aoderic]

Yes, so they shouldn't go from one extreme to the opposite extreme.

[@kiruthikpranav5047]

And that is really scary. The choice of what to sacrifice always deters people from making the choice.

[@ydid687]

hydroponics (if there's a political will there is a way)

[@harisasif2]

As a Pakistan citizen living in Lahore, this really is very concerning but our army, corrupt govt officers and politicians don't even care a bit about the future generations, they have created a negative economic and political environment on purpose so that there power remains intact, while the major issues like climate change, water scarcity and economic growth and development are getting neglected

[@samindherreddy]

Abhee ambend karne me kuch nahi atha ladna hoga Pakistan future ki bath he

[@factoshala1487]

what army has to do with this?

[@kaustubhraizada]

@@factoshala1487 army destabilize every pak gov in history no democratic gov in Pakistan has ever completed its term 🤣

[@shaheer_04]

@@kaustubhraizada Democratic governments have, indeed, completed their terms. Check again. You're talking about Prime Ministers.

[@Aryanthakur-yt9bc]

@@shaheer_04 Pakistan democracy you're joking right?

[@Moosa_Says]

I'm Pakistani and I'm telling you, The canals and Dams aren't the issues, the issue is mismanagement and actually not modernizing this almost century-old irrigation system!!

[@ACreative_name]

It was less miss management and more of climate change

[@ArbazAbid]

@@ACreative_name exactly. we can't run out nature

[@naintarabatool1150]

That's not true. It's the Force of the nature

[@afrazamjad1644]

@@naintarabatool1150 Yes an Unprepared Country because of Corrupt Rulers, Generals for an otherwise almost always Vulnerable to Climatic Changes

[@phylicia595]

You're right Goat herders run Pakistan

[@moritzl7065]

If I understand this video correctly, the population explosion of Pakistan is directly related to the engineering of the Indus (makes sense, more agriculture = more food = more people). But that means you can't revert to "indigenous knowledge" as their engineering was designed for a much smaller population. The thing I took away from this video is that just like with the world as a whole, the country over-engineered its way to an unsustainable state, and cannot reverse it now.

[@ano_nym]

Yeah, they always do these things. Celebrate the old indigenous ways, then ignoring the current population numbers. Sure it works if you want the old Ted route, but these people often doesn't want that either.

[@sarahwatts7152]

I agree; however the system could be engineered to benefit the environment and the people who depend on it, it would first have to figure out how to feed all the people who are reliant on the land. I'm just not sure how you would do that 'old school,' while acknowledging that the 'new school' should have been sitting at the back of the class the whole time

[@siddharthkhandelwal3161]

Spot on. It’s very easy to stay “stick to indigenous systems”. In India, we have our own issue of poorly developed towns and cities on the Himalayas which will bite back sooner than later The solution was to either control population or incentivise mass migration to the plains in order to maintain ecological balance In this case, Pakistan has 0 option but to rely on engineering to feed a dramatic rise in population across the nation The bigger mistake was the approval of wrong projects designed by corrupt and incompetent stakeholders

[@mohammedkhaliq1475]

It’s not that simple, you can’t learn everything about everything about such a complicated problem in a short video. One major factor they didn’t even mention in the video is the problem with India. The Indus River originates from the Himalayan mountains and India who also has a massive population wants the water for their own needs. They’ve built dams and have diverted the flow of water to their territory which means less water for the people of Pakistan. Population growth + less water for farming = disaster.

[@dundundun7215]

It will not be impossible to mend our infrastructure and economics in a way that can revert us back to a sustainable way of living. As such the solutions given in the video are not saying to go back to the old way of living rather integrate the historical and environmental knowledge about the region into our social and infrastructure policy as well. You know, don't just give space to the upper class and elites to speak, let other folks speak as well that are not bringing a coloialist mindset, rather a more indiginous one. And it is also important to note that the population boom in the region is also socially engineered. Contraceptives and birth control and managment are vehemently opposed by the religiously extremist factions within the region. Islam, another foreign gift to the land makes its marks on the country and make certain changes and development in the country almost impossible

[@rikulappi9664]

The problem seems to be bad engineering rather than over-engineering. Good governance could fix past mistakes if there were the political will to keep selfish interest groups in check.

[@mankytoes]

Agreed, the final argument seems to follow the "appeal to nature" fallacy. Of course all groups should be consulted and listened to, but you shouldn't just discard the idea of engineering solutions.

[@Lucas-vd2gx]

I don't beleive it is bad engineering, it is a project almost 100 years old still standing and working fully. The problem here is corruption and decision-makers that do not care about who live there. Not to mention Politics and Bureaucracy. It is the government's fault what is happening.

[@kukulroukul4698]

monsoons are no joke either!

[@hoos3014]

In this case, over-engineering seems to be an accurate description of the problem. Not unlike what the US has done to the bayou in Louisiana.

[@abhijitpanda524]

Pakistani politics is really unstable No cilivian govt. has completed their full term yet in their 75yrs of history, Military is too powerful who can throw civil govt. out whenever they want.

[@poni3367]

The first 6 minutes were focussed on colonialists deteriorating the land for money/power and the fact that an independent Pakistan significantly ramped up the canal system over 30-40 years was glossed over in 20 seconds

[@tsundoku1682]

That’s VOX for you, my friend

[@Vatsalya17]

Point being?

[@poni3367]

@@Vatsalya17 just a comment on what I saw

[@keferwtf]

Although they are right on a number of issues they do love blaming the west for everything 😂

[@JamEngulfer]

Someone made a good point that it’s not necessarily a colonialist mindset, but an industrialist one. Which explains to an extent why it’s continued long after the era of active colonialism.

[@adamradford3480]

When the British Raj established direct British rule, the area that is now Pakistan had a population of 15 million. By 1947, it was 34 million. Now, it's 230 million By 2100, it will be 475 million. Natural water management strategies that worked for 15 million (with a life expectancy of less than 26 years) will not work for a population of nearly half a billion people with a life expectancy 3 times as long. Not to mention the fact that hydro power currently provides 25% of Pakistan's electricity. It is easy for these academics (comfortably sat in London) to label Pakistan's wish to use hard engineering solutions to try and meet this challenge as 'continuing the colonial mindset' rather than offering viable alternatives, or telling us what the human cost would be to dismantling the infrastructure. From where I'm sat, it isn't simply a case of 'continuing the colonial mindset', but it is about meeting the needs of hundreds of millions of people who deserve water, electricity, and prosperity. The issue (imo) is how any infrastructure can increase inequalities or lead to direct suffering of some, and that these should be managed to maximimse the benefits for all Pakistanis.

[@dontlaughtoomuch11]

That's a very well thought out comment Adam! The first minute of this video already explained perfectly WHY Pakistan did what it had to do. The problem was they didn't take in account irregular monsoon rains nor was there flood zones set up to absorb additional water, like in certain areas of China where they created "sponge cities". Setting up large communities at river banks is a recipe for disaster though...

[@simond633]

Gimme a break with blaming "colonialism". PAK has been an independent country for 75 years and has the autonomy to fix or break their own country. Surely bringing loads of land under cultivation is a good thing, but obv more could be done to build resilience and tackly inequality

[@KenMathis1]

This videos appears to be conflating two separate issues, inequality of water access and engineering water pathways to capture more water. While the two have been historically linked, they don't have to be. You could still engineer the water pathways, and be more equitable with water distribution and access. The problem is that it appears that the engineering is necessary to support Pakistan's population. They can't just go back letting the rivers flow wherever nature takes them. Also while damming up the rivers has reduced flow and allowed salt water to destroy previously farmable land, that has to be put into the context of how much more land was created that could support agriculture. My guess is that the latter is a lot more than the former. Again, there is the inequality issue of who gets the new land and who gets their land destroyed, but that's a separate issue that can be remedied while keeping the engineering.

[@VivekPatel-ze6jy]

I get your point, and it's a video that should be 25 minutes instead of 10, to fully convey this

[@as0482]

@@VivekPatel-ze6jy Seriously, these people should have primarily consulted experienced water resource engineers and given secondary priority to environmental experts for this topic. The primary issue that caused the greatest amount of harm here is wrongful engineering meant to promote inequality started by a colonial government and then continued by the independent nation for the benefit of the Punjab region's ruling class to the detriment of overall economic prosperity and the wealth of the other provinces of Pakistan. There is a common thread of short-sighted disregard for the other regions of that nation for the benefit of Punjab by the ruling class, which, absolutely coincidentally, is dominated by wealthy politicians from Punjab. They could have made that a real point rather than a focus on "indigenous knowledge" that is already moot and largely lost due to the, as mentioned in the video, 150 year old legacy of Western water systems. The independent nation inherited very expensive and massively successful infrastructure from British rule which they could have easily redesigned to be far more resistant to floods, prevented ecological erosion, and reduce inequality. This could have been rather easily funded by the massive amounts of money that they gained from selling the cash crops that this system enables, if they hadn't squandered that money on corruption, terrorism and wars.

[@ibrahim-sj2cr]

the video talks about historical usage and current problems and the bad colonial mindset of pakistan but offer zero solutions. this is the type of conversation id expect from a tea stand or a paan shop not cambridge university proffessor.

[@KenMathis1]

@@ibrahim-sj2cr There is no issue with pointing out a problem. The first step in solving a problem is identifying it. You don't have to know how to fix something to know something is wrong. The real issue is that by conflating engineering and inequality, they don't correctly identify the problem. The engineering might have some negative side effects, but was necessary. Either the dams were built or millions would have died. Complaining about the dams is like complaining about the invention of cars because of car crashes. Btw the video does propose solutions. Specifically it says "preventing more development in floodplains" and "clearing out obstructions to drainage pathways" should be done. This is sound advice for the flooding issue, whose main cause is people living where it floods. Inequality on the other hand is a separate political issue. The dams magnified that problem, but are not the root cause of it. This video incorrectly makes it seem like they are the problem and were some kind of evil imposed on Pakistan. However the country couldn't support the 200+ million people today without them.

[@majlada]

@@ibrahim-sj2cr This is a short-form video with stop-motion visuals to accompany what is being said. If you wanted a comprehensive overview of more potential solution, it'd be a lecture or an interview with a panel of experts that would be at least an hour long. Not to mention, if you wanted "the type of conversetion one expects from a Cambridge professor", you'd probably have to have at least some background in water resource engineering.

[@aatirehrarsiddiqui8894]

What does not seem to be clear is that if this "colonial" irrigation system was to be dismantled, would it not have severe repercussions of its own? I think this it is too simplistic to say it's the fault of colonial mindset or colonial practice or over-engineering. The solution probably lies somewhere between sustainable engineering solutions, enforcing flood management related plans and in my humble opinion most importantly arresting the mind-boggling growth of population in Pakistan.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I don’t think the video is proposing instant wholesale dismantling, but rather a slow reworking of the entire system. That doesn’t necessarily mean no canals, but it means having a different methodology

[@aatirehrarsiddiqui8894]

@@kaitlyn__L and what is that different methodology? Care to elaborate? I just heard alot of sound bites. Nothing concrete.

[@oteragard8077]

​@@aatirehrarsiddiqui8894 I was staring at this like... "don't engineer the river" ...surely now is when we actually need to engineer the river

[@guptaamey]

Isn't the problem just corruption and poor water cycle management? If artificial lanes are constructed to guide water back into the Indus River and wealthy landowners are restricted from cutting embankments, that should reduce downstream floods and level out water flow. Of course there are external factors (I.e. shifting climate patterns due to climate change) so droughts may still increase, but this seems like the most straightforward solution to reduce their intensity. Also Population Control sounds like a bad idea - I can't think of a single successful example that didn't involve catastrophic violence.

[@thanhavictus]

The answer is yeoman farming

[@griffincontracting]

Framing this as a problem of colonialism, that can only be solved with local/indigenous answers is a bit...odd. Engineering and science are absolutely what is needed. Evidence-based solutions.

[@kylefisher1458]

local/indigenous answers won't feed and employ 120 million people

[@beerenmusli8220]

Except the implication does really say that? It says water should be manage *like* with indigenous techniques, divereting floodwater rather than perenial water. Not that 100% indigeenous solutions should be used.

[@jihadahmed9568]

i laughed and then cried when i read evidence based solutions. Trust me, there is no person competent enough in our government to make up evidence-based solutions, they're too busy in doing their own politics and corrupting the system. We're just going by. Only just and i dont know how

[@veggiedisease123]

@@beerenmusli8220 Even that would drastically reduce agricultural productivity and lead to an over-dependence on food imports or regular famines.

[@beerenmusli8220]

@@veggiedisease123 And you say that based on which Data, exactly?

[@syedmohammadaanasfarukh890]

4:39 blaming the british despite the fact that Pakistan's water availability was highest in 1950 (just 3 years after independence). Water was better managed during colonial times. These issues have been created by the local government, and yet you're blindly blaming the british. Been 75 year since independence. If 75 years aint enough, 750 aint either.

[@TasmeerAdnan]

what kind of issues? Plz do explain

[@62056747]

Being a Pakistani and also part of Govt. Irrigation department I think this video covers only half a truth. The land irrigated by this system is livelihood of hundreds of millions of people ,apart from politics and governance issues this system needed upgradation which is not possible due to lack of funds,the floods are result of unusual climate change and encroachments along river basins, and at some places due to inadequate drainage facilities.

[@KurulushOsmanSeriesUrduLIVE442]

Funds 😂 ایریگیشن والوں کے کارنامے مشہور ہیں جناب اگر کہیں سے کینال کر بریچ لگ گیا تو اسے وھاں کے باشندے ہی بند کر دیتے ہیں اور بل ایریگیشن والے بناتے ہیں 😂😂😂

[@goata007]

As a Pakistani, who understands this issue and the politics involved, I find this documentary mostly wrong. Don't have time to correct all the info but for a start, the key reason for building Dams and Barrages is that Indus river gets its water from Glacier ice melting. This happens in late spring, summer and early autumn, so Dams and barrages help store massive amount of fresh water that is needed for agriculture and people, throughout the year. If it weren't for the dams/barrages then Indus river would be dry during periods of no glacier ice melting (i.e. many months)

[@daviga1]

Thank you for sharing this!

[@Hastdupech8509]

Pfff, as if they're gonna listen to you. In their minds, anything that came out of countries that have been at some point in history colonial powers is wrong. So, while they live in Europe or houses with very Western-commodities, the rest of the Pakistani, the Indians, the Kenyans, the Indonesians, the Peruvians... can easily starve waiting for their scifi solutions. Anticolonialism yay, but for them? Nay

[@죽은_시민의_사회]

That was alll mentioned in the video. It explained that the dams and barrages allowed people to access water more easily, but created problems that were described in the video.

[@Alusnovalotus]

Then why is the country suffering so much more with the man made dams than before? We can argue about the causes here all day yet the results are still happening and will continue to ruin Pakistan. 😞

[@dundundun7215]

You're getting the problem wrong as well, while barrages and dams help irrigate the upper regions of the country. The blockage of the free flow of the water means that the indus river delta is drying up and saltwater is moving upwards in the country and the lower areas are drying/turning saline basically. We also need to start thinking about proper drainage and water flow that doesn't affect the ground water chemistry. Basically you can't be greedy and store all the water

[@haris-y2q]

It's sad to see the once so-called "largest canal irrigation system" go down the drain all due to lack of long term planning by the government.

[@pingshien91]

i see what you did there

[@threethrushes]

Throwing the baby out with the bath water, I may add.

[@qurratulainzehra8760]

Endian ☕

[@sudhanshusharma-ns5on]

@@qurratulainzehra8760 what that really is a issue pakistan need to evolve

[@untitled6391]

@@qurratulainzehra8760 P3doworshipper 🛐🛐🤲🤲

[@szymonpifczyk]

What a strange video! Super interesting on the history and hydrology part but so visibly wrong on the social commentary. From what I gather, the British started to build a canal system in the early 1900s and independent Pakistan continued similar projects to make a desert fertile. Then a hundred years later a number of unfortunate events at the same time culminate in a massive flood with 1,600 casualties. Tragic indeed. But the proposed alternative, which seems to be "dismantle the colonial canal system and go back to indigenous methods of managing water", basically means to go back to a state in which Pakistan is able to sustain maybe 10 or 20 millions of people tops - not the 230 million it has today. So instead of 1600 casualties over 100 years, you'll have more than 200 million casualties and constant hunger (because an average woman in Pakistan has a few children).

[@masoodjalal1152]

You summed it up briefly and perfectly.

[@jensholm5759]

People often forget there are more Pakistanis then ever. So more food might be one of the reaosns.

[@liamdavis2387]

Exactly. The British canals seem to have been very effective and beneficial. It was only after Pakistan became independent and pushed the system beyond its limits by trying to make it support 5x as many people

[@jensholm5759]

Thats tight.But we also dont know if the britts had that building out plans too.

[@shoppedout]

Exactly ! I am not sure what the "purpose" of this video is... it poses a problem and no real solution... and leaves the viewer to imply that Pakistan should not build more dams... so really a strange video

[@williamthebonquerer9181]

I love how the thesis for this video is Pakistans water policies are a continuation of colonialism and the experts you interview on this reside in the uk

[@fairylesbyaintdve6536]

Ever heard of brain drain?

[@barrirashakeel9555]

It's also has to do with colonialism that they are in uk

[@kangtheconqueror7212]

Agreed from India

[@terramater]

The water crisis is definitely a critical topic. Our crew analysed the current situation at the River Nile. Egyptian farmers along the River Nile banks have long relied on this legendary water source for their way of life. But now the river is drying up, turning the traditional way of life into a struggle. While more efficient irrigation and planting systems might be one solution, wider geopolitical issues are also affecting livelihoods all along the river. We're hoping to see positive solutions to the problematic water conflicts we're seeing nowadays.

[@Just_A_Guy_Here.]

I'm your 100th liker here & bye.

[@nikulvyas4987]

As one wise man said, "Pakistan is not a poor country, it's a highly mismanaged country.."

[@lawrenceweston922]

True

[@thefourcookies123]

Srrsly underrated comment

[@InvincibleJB_69]

As an Indian i agree with this statement. When we both got independence, Pakistan had higher GDP , higher literacy rate , greater agricultural productivity.... But the path of military rule , communalism, radicalisation destroyed your bright future. I agree democracy has numerous flaws but in the end we are able to change governments that we like.

[@lawrenceweston922]

@@InvincibleJB_69 Communalism is more rampant under Modi, we’re headed in the right direction in that regard … India isn’t.

[@mmehta7767]

I won't say mismanaged, but it runs on sentiments rather than logic, and sentiments don't have synergy in them.This is the main reason why the general public got played every time by their leaders. 90% pakistani thinks kashmir as their primary issue rather than their internal turmoils. They have wasted every global platform presence until now, in the name of kashmir, instead of highlighting the crisis the country is facing. In davos Economic forumn where every country reps were highlighting the growth opportunities in their country and seeking for investments , pak fm's main objective was still kashmir. By this, who will take them seriously .

[@Doping1234]

If VOX thinks the traditional water management solutions are so awesome they should also provide some analysis on how this would affect total agricultural output. I'd guess it would lower, otherwise the british wouldn't have bothered with the canals. But it's easy to advertise traditionalist agricultural practices if you are not the one having to live with the results.

[@rhysduncan8676]

Why do you think the British got it right? They got quite a long wrong in a lot of places (e.g. country borders) so why couldn't this be wrong?

[@Mer1912]

@@rhysduncan8676ritish had good technology, and helped improve agriculture. They messed with borders, but that’s different. The borders turned out bad because they grouped people together who didn’t like each other, spoke different languages, or practiced different religions. These weren’t always the cases, but that’s pretty much what happened to Africa. India and Pakistan are a different story

[@lordofthepies]

@@rhysduncan8676 that's a false dichotomy. You can be good at building irrigation and be pisspoor at dividing land at the same time. And we know the irrigation worked because Britain turned the area into a cash cow while being a detriment to the local populace

[@DavidRGD]

@@lordofthepies there are a lot of things the British had done over the years and centuries. It had both positive and negative impacts on their colonies and across the world (in some extent), despite all the controversies and the colonial past (sadly, given how the reputation on the British government just went down, they just seen those as a joke these days).

[@DevKulkarni]

​@@rhysduncan8676 You are right Brits might not have gotten it right. Because in another video another colonial power also tried to build the Panama canal by digging Panamanian hills to sea level. But the more significant point he/she's trying to make is there are modern and nonintrusive methods now to solve this vs. building massive dams, which need not be traditional. because if "traditional" methods were so good why would anyone have attempted to change them?

[@animalamu]

framing this as a "colonialist mindset" problem is the absolute worst take possible

[@somebloodybrit8067]

It's Vox, do you expect them to actually have decent takes?

[@faheemahmad3957]

they have proofs!

[@Eli-pj8xm]

Easier to point fingers rather than admit you are the problem.

[@WS12658]

It's so weird, right? The "colonial mindset" allowed Pakistan to grow massively and feed millions and millions more people. And then post-colonial mismanagement and bad engineer is somehow the ex-colonists fault?

[@randomname4411]

They essentially inherited infrastructure that otherwise would not have existed for at least another 50 years.

[@roland9367]

In 2012, like many years, there were also massive floods. We were driving through the area. The roads are embankments, they are the high point. So lots of poor people who lost everything were just sitting there on the roads. It was heart-wrenching to see. As far as you could look there was water.

[@idkatthispoint-s9s]

Can we appreciate how beautiful the stop motion throughout this video is? 👏👏

[@Achill101]

I did appreciate it. But video spend too much time on blaming the British past and too little time on engineering trade-offs.

[@abhishekrath3931]

AA thooo..

[@ВладимирКруглов-к9о]

Yes we can!

[@Zveebo]

This is rather one-sided video. Prior to the canal system, massive famines killing many hundreds of thousands, even millions, happened routinely for centuries. Yes, there are some negatives, but the canal system both saved millions of lives and played a huge part in enabling Pakistan to become the huge and relatively prosperous country it is today. Ignoring that side of things is less than I expect from quality journalism like Vox.

[@seedhasaadabhartiya3312]

What did you say? Pakistan is a relatively prosperous country 😂😂😂😂

[@patrickfitzgerald2861]

@@seedhasaadabhartiya3312 Relative to their good friends over the border in Afghanistan, yes.

[@gregry-boyd]

Didn't you watch the video? Colonialism is THE cause for all these problems. Why have a serious discussion when there's a cheap and easy target on the table.

[@tahmasp6624]

@@seedhasaadabhartiya3312 yes Pakistan has developed lot over the years.

[@TopeRopeTom]

What’s funny is the show a graph of massive population increases and then never address the issue that there would not have been this population if the water infrastructure was not there. Everyone just eats up oh it’s colonialism and the lady tries to make it like she knows there’s ancient secret knowledge that we refuse to look at…. Perhaps make better drainage so pakistan can maintain its population? Unless what’s she’s saying is she was Pakistan to go back to its population 150 years ago…

[@jasonquigley2633]

The video implies that the solution to Pakistan's water problems is to revert to pre-industrial agricultural and water control methods. This is all well and good if you're willing to accept a pre-industrial standard of living and population (as the video notes, pre-industrial pakistan's population was a 5th what it is today). Switching to subsistence farming is not the only solution, They could instead invest in better and less corrupt water engineering. Most countries around the world have professional civil and hydro engineers who spend great effort to manage the water systems to prevent flooding and provide further irrigation, and in the vast majority of cases they are successful. The solution for Pakistan is to better manage their water resources and establish an apolitical body to maintain them. This has been the job of governments for millennia. I believe the scale of the damage Pakistan's floods have caused will provide sufficient political will to establish proper, professional, apolitical and holistic management of the country's rivers.

[@MrBoliao98]

The woman is cheap to not recognise how those very canals is the reason Pakistan has 200 Million people.

[@xianxiaemperor1438]

'Exactly, ''b-b-but degrowth hurr durr'' this can only work for already wealthy global north countries, not for relatively poor/struggling global south countries...

[@clmBerserker]

@@xianxiaemperor1438 It would still be the same problem in any rich nation. But acusing industrialism as the problem and saying that going back to indiginous solution would help is magical thinking. The problem would persist. The method she wants wouldent stop the tragedy of the commons to occur. In rich nations as far as I know the only salution, has been either limit access and/or more common selling the access, neither of these solutions would favour the people who are poor.

[@xianxiaemperor1438]

@@clmBerserker yeah

[@umairusman]

I agree. The video makes a horrible point, implying that the irrigation system itself was the problem. What does VOX expect us to do? Do away with irrigation and water management systems? Also the cause of the flooding becoming worse was also due to not enough water management, not the other way round. VOX doesn't even discuss the lack of rainwater reservoirs which have become a big issue here . I don't understand the point of the video

[@emani2704]

Bangladesh has worst case river related scenario than Pakistan. But Bangladesh took the matter in it's own hand and started fixing it's problem one by one instead of blaming British for something which happened 70 to 150 years ago. For how long Pakistan going to blame their colonial past?

[@JorkinDaily247]

You need a stable government,freedom and money pakistan doesnt have any and this flood is certainly not helping

[@cometmoon4485]

Can you explain how Bangladesh fixed the problem?

[@umaryusuf537]

The average Pakistani doesn’t blame the British for this but corruption and mismanagement. Vox is blaming the British

[@realcyberpirate]

The thing is, punjab controls pakistan, it doesn't care for other provinces, be it get flooded or drain their water ways, if its happy, that's about it. Good thing you guys got out when you could.

[@NarasimhaDiyasena]

@@cometmoon4485 UN intervention. I remember a decade or so ago Bangladesh and Maldives were always being mentioned in need of funding and projects to correct the situation. Bangladesh is being flooded! Maldives will sink in 10 years! Catchy slogans diverted US taxpayer dollars into subsidizing NGO’s to fix the issue, but in reality ‘fixing’ had lest to do with correcting the problem and more to do with gaining leverage over government. Read ‘Confessions of an Economic Hitman’ for reference.

[@scottwisseman8629]

Y'all continue to amaze with these physical diagrams and illustrations. They are spectacular!

[@goatmeal5241]

I wish there were some hydro-engineers interviewed, not just professors of "critical geography" and "human geography". The calls to "listen to indigenous people" and "have a more democratic process" sounds great but show an alarming lack of a *practical solution*---unless the indigenous people (whose old hands-off approach would starve hundreds of millions if implemented today) have a lot of hydroengineers in their midst? Engineering allowed the population to grow---isn't that a good thing? Hundreds of millions of people alive because of sufficient food?

[@djm2189]

Exactly this! Overpopulation is a huge issue there with hardly any birth control. They benefit from the canals and then complain when it has some issues. Like you couldn't plan for a disaster? Be proactive vs reactive...

[@teoengchin]

If VOX really wanted to understand the issues, they would have interviewed a Hydrologist. You wouldn't do a story about heart attacks without interviewing a cardiologist right?

[@Rialagma]

The conclusion being "you need to listen to indigenous ways of management" is a bit intellectually insulting. All those people still need farmland to grow food and sustain a population, you can't just "go back".

[@thedamnedatheist]

@Zaydan Alfariz aren you sure you have the right video?

[@SJokes]

@Zaydan Alfariz You just had to find a way to talk about indonesia hmm

[@chingfool-no-matter]

@Richard Agreed. British gov only started to build a few. Then the independent Pakistan gov kept building more like carzy. 6:02 Whatever measure, indigenious or modern, will break when it is taken to the extreme..

[@0deepak]

@Zaydan Alfariz I mean Pak unis discredit themselves. UK unis are world class, let's not compare them.

[@umaryusuf537]

I’m Pakistani and when it comes to this the main issue is corruption, mismanagement, discrimination and a load of other issues blaming the British isn’t the solution. Yeah the British are responsible for several issues Pakistan faces like the Kashmir dispute and modern day western intervention in Pakistan like the US meddling in Pakistani affairs is a issue. The old irrigation systems won’t be able to feed Pakistans 220 million people. With better management this issue can become a lesser risk. Many areas face issue with water like the western US just recently in California lots of storms caused flooding in a usually dry area but due to better management the impact wasn’t as bad as the floods in Pakistan.

[@dundundun7215]

No one's blaming the British, but not acknowledging the problem from where its coming from is also an issue. The dams are a british legacy, we personally don't know at all what else to do with the water. This is the same problem we keep facing with other countless issues we're trying to resolve. We don't like acknowledging that we were colonised for a long time and our personal relationship with the system that we're living in is that of a aaqa vs ghulam. We need to acknowledge that the mindset of our ruling class is conquering our own homeland rather learning to live with it. And the fact we still have a ruling class, our growth is stunted, we need to start acknowledging that we were colonised and conquered countless and learn to start the ways it affected our social policies and environment in a different way than ours. We can't a set a direction for ourselves if we don't know which way we're facing

[@umaryusuf537]

@@dundundun7215 I agree with you brother Pakistan had lots of problems and it’s mainly due to the corruption, but I think even worse is the discrimination based on ethnic lines the quota system in Pakistan only benefits those in the majority in Punjab that’s Punjabi, in Sindh it’s Sindhi in KPK it’s Pathans. There’s a reason the Bangali left Pakistan and it was due to racism. Pakistan is able to feed its 220 million people due to conquering the Indus. So the current system of dams and canals is really important. To better this issue we need better infrastructure, better management and so much more can’t go back to the pre colonial agricultural system

[@hardcoregamer7640]

Kashmir is in their DNA 😂

[@riderchallenge4250]

@@umaryusuf537 able to feed seriously there is no food in Pakistan

[@atish3024]

Priority is to convert hindu and sikh in pak that is V imp water is boon of Allah [pubh] after few years it will come back.

[@murtazazaidi95]

I own around 92 acres of agricultural land in Sindh, 32 acres in the thatha district which is where the Indus flows to the sea. We have some very serious problems and majority is related to water. There is a canal that is right next to 22 acres of my land but I feel a big issue there is sharing water. Because my land is downstream by the time it reaches my land there isnt any left and every year a portion of my crops are destroyed. If the upstream farmers dont waste as much as they do we could all have enough water. The ground water is incredibly saltish as sea water seeps (usually around 7500 DTS, crops can not grow in DTS above a 1000) so thats pretty useless for me. Ive tried my best to negotiate with the irrigation department and have them divert more water towards my land but all theyre interested in is bribes... Its nothing less than a disaster

[@fabrilabcommunications4305]

A fairly bizarre take. The lack of gratitude toward the hard working souls that created these systems is Jarring. Hopefully this type of story telling has an expiry date, and we can get back to appreciating progress for the blessing that it actually is.

[@ankitraj7365]

Recently Indian govt has sent letter to Islamabad to talk about the Indus water treaty 1960. A lot of major development will be seen on this topic.

[@JohnAdams-vd5dc]

Yes. Pakistan is about to lose on that front too.

[@ankitraj7365]

@@JohnAdams-vd5dc today a bomb blast in Peshawar Pakistan killed around 50 people.

[@ammarmateen3184]

Hahaha

[@aiwwakk7152]

Keep dreaming endia.. only if Pakistan accepts it. 🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰

[@Satyamev_Jayate100]

Yes , because they are preventing making of dams in Kashmir

[@batman_2004]

Pakistan mentioned. Indians : Allow us to introduce ourselves.

[@itachiofthesharingan67]

Afterall those are our children....They are part of us😂

[@vishal-ys7pk]

we care for our son , even if it is unwanted.

[@sasmalprasanjit2764]

We love our bast*** child too ( conve**** out of hindu to become a Muslim nAtion)

[@gauravdas6741]

Father never forget his child even though his child is notorious.

[@anaesthete5592]

Indus flows through India first then it's reaches pakistan

[@mayanksingh0044]

It's the fault of government of pakistan. British did what any other colonial power would have done. It's the government of pakistan who still gives land to powerful govt servants by giving them prime land like patronage. What colonial power gave away was about 1/3rd of total hence most of is given by the Pakistani government

[@Rishi6901]

Bro in India we are also doing the same thing in Punjab, Haryana and U.P. You can see the impact of that in Punjab they are now facing droughts.

[@kartik_adhia]

I'm Indian and I find the blaming of all the problems on "The colonial past" very egregious. (This happens in India all the time as well). A simple question that you could ask is : would things have been different if not colonialism? And the answer is, most likely not. Problems like corruption, discrimination and nepotism are rife in all communities across the world, and didn't spread because of colonialism. What you could argue in favor of what the British did was they caused economic development of the region. In fact, mega projects are quite literally still very much touted celebrated in India and Pakistan. So how do they become crimes when done by the British lol? In this particular case, one could argue that the astronomical rise in arable land fueled population growth in the Country. How is this a bad thing again? :D Now imagine a reverse case scenario : The British rule a country and do not support development in the region. People will blame them for hindering economic development of the region! In fact some Indian politicians demand reparations from the British government for "not causing enough economic development" during their rule. This is not to say that the British rule was in any way rosy or that I support it in any way. But Criticism should be logical and done at appropriate places ;)

[@earth2k66]

Colonial irrigation systems were one thing, India has improved them to reach modern standards by investing in repair and expansion. While Pakistan has spent everything on Nukes, corrupt Army officials, and luxury cars.

[@mlg1279]

U do realise that the British developed these regions to increase their profits, right?

[@earth2k66]

@@mlg1279 On top, British-made irrigation systems are not for wheat or rice. They were made for Jut and other textile products which would be exported to Britain. Pakistan didn't bother to improve them like India.

[@VaishnavENK]

The institutions which India inherited from its former colonial self were deliberately built to be weak by the British, who just wanted to use its colony for profits. That is why our police and administration suffer from corruption and nepotism while other former British dominions like Canada and New Zealand don't. The institutions were there to just make the process of exploitation more organised and trackable and was designed so that rich and influential Indians and British officials could bypass it if they wanted to. This was the Indian State we inherited in 1947. India has stayed together as single nation state not because of the State but because of its society. Of course, things are better now but we are still fixing these colonial era institutions to this day.

[@jensholm5759]

You are so wrong. Britts didnt invent any of that and its all over the world. Yu should be impressed. Thats few britts were able to rule from Afghanistan and east of Burma.

[@walhalla8217]

These engineering project certainly helped the communities grow... there was certainly greater benefit in them. These projects certainly come with risk involved, we see the effect today. What seems to be overlooked was the constant monitoring of these rivers, to see if they may cause problems ahead, and could be rectified easily.

[@MrDylsha]

Colonial mindset? The british only built one or two barrages, it was the Pakistani's who built over 50+...

[@channelclark7121]

Ok and they started it

[@petergray7576]

Except that the colonial mindset is still thriving. The modern India and Pakistani legal codes were compiled decades before either was a separate or independent nation. And when independence did come the new ruling elites were content with the economic status quo the British had built, and simply promoted themselves into the commercial and government jobs and roles that had depended upon or built that status quo. In economics this is called Path Dependence, which is built upon the theory that it is far easier to maintain existing economic and sociological infrastructure- in spite of their glaring shortcomings or limitations- than to switch to a newer and improved system that has to be built from scratch. In most cases of modern countries that emerged from European colonialism, the previous colonial rulers had built most of their physical existence from borders to the ruling social structure to government administration to the main export industries prior to independence. And since path dependence is very difficult even for prosperous developed countries to break, there was little chance that poorer former colonies would deviate from these established systems. And this included patterns of neglect, corruption and social cupidity usually traceable to the former colonists themselves, passed down to the new rulers.

[@giovannicaboto6322]

At what point does Pakistan get blamed for its own problems and not the British. Pakistan has had independence for quite a while now and you're making this video telling me that it's Britain's fault that Pakistan can't control it's irrigation? How about they take responsibility and stop blaming others for their problems

[@msruag]

do you really think corrupt government officials living in their mansions with expensive shoes are actually going to blame themselves for anything in pakistan lol? come to pakistan everyone is suffering bc of these excuses of "leaders"

[@meet_jagtap]

Yes. It IS Britain’s fault no matter whatever you say! The point is Britain left the subcontinent decades ago, and now fixing it is Pakistan’s responsibility, something that Pakistan is doing incompetently and inefficiently.

[@manoj4730]

Without talking about Indus water treaty this video is incomplete

[@KurulushOsmanSeriesUrduLIVE442]

Treaty was not the favour of Pakistan

[@imranhoosenally8628]

It is important to note that there were no flooding issues during British rule with the fist major floods being in 1950, today's issue comes from Pakistan's mismanagement and poorly thought through expansion of the system.

[@bazmira3283]

Let’s ignore the effect of global warming shall we

[@bazmira3283]

@KingMinos316 LOL stay in school

[@StreetDrilla]

1950 is literally after British rule.. Did Pakistan cause it in 2-3 years instantly?

[@doctorshawzy6477]

...yes.. blame the colonials... they have been independent for 80 years..listening to locals wont help... overpopulation!!!

[@DesertRox]

So the British left in 1947 and the main canal was finished in 1987...the British have been gone for 76 years. Sounds like the Pakistani people and by extension it's government are happy with the system or they would have removed it. I'm not sure anyone can blame British engineers for this 76 years later and also many canal projects later.

[@mudra5114]

I know Indians blaming the British for railways riding British built lines and then getting down on British built railway stations.

[@prism560]

vox: let talk about the issue me: oh okay let hear it vox: it all change when the British attacked me: oh god not again...

[@cenci4913]

You literally can't talk about modern Indian history without talking about the British. They ruled the area for 100 years, and more importantly for the 100 years in which the industrial revolution took place

[@lolatiffhur]

@@cenci4913 sure it may have ruled for 100 yrs but already 75 years have passed. That’s 3 generations. That’s enough time to work things through

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@lolatiffhur not how history works. Ramifications usually are felt for a few centuries for any major event. See, WW1, or the American and French Revolutions. 75 years is actually a remarkably short time for the fabric of power to change

[@BeE_AriyaN]

@@lolatiffhur there's a catch. When British ruled, it was more or less a single entity under the name British India, but now it's India & Pakistan (while Indus is concerned) & last 75 years of history is full of 1947, 65, 71, 99 etc.

[@navinvent]

@@cenci4913 Yeah, but the conveniently ignored that Pakistan opposes India building more dams, which could reduce flooding because that would help Indians.

[@therealergo]

Interesting, beautiful video completely ruined by some weird fetishization of traditional knowledge and blame shifting. You should've interviewed a hydrologist.

[@Monaleenian]

Yeah, the massive child mortality and regular famines that were brought about before colonisation by folowing traditional knowledge don't seem to be an issue for them. Tells you a lot about their extremely lacking knowledge of that period or their view of humans. I hope it's just ignorance but I wouldn't be so sure that someone could do the research that was required for this video without being(or becoming) aware of the results that were obtained by following traditional knowledge. Concerning.

[@NaSaSh1087]

@@Monaleenian 🤣yet the regular famines were more frequent during the British rule than any other pre colonial rule.

[@NepaliSportsClick]

Nepal can sell water to whole world but India is getting it free and still stealing border area of Nepal and former area like sikkim Tista Darjeeling etc....one day India will have to payback.

[@samuela-aegisdottir]

The fact that the population of Pakistan is now several times bigger than it was prior the river's redesign probably means that the country can't go back to its previous system of agriculture.

[@anandisrocking007]

I am also indian and ya the British did bad thing it's about time people and politicians stop use them as an excuse of their incompitance and also this is not colonial mindset but industrial mindset and the first industrial countries just happened to be the colonial countries.. ...... 🧐😒😒

[@aksmex2576]

Exactly! The Brits have been gone for 75 years yet they are blamed for everything.

[@WS12658]

I thought it was interesting that large infrastructure projects were framed as a "western" concept, rather than just a "developed industrial nation" concept. Seemed very condescending.

[@ameerabdullah1129]

its vox mindset pakistan not blaming british for it

[@anandisrocking007]

@@ameerabdullah1129 Mabe but post colonial politicians do that

[@boarbot7829]

Thank you so so much for this extremely reasonable comment- I agree that the British did some terrible things, but it is definitely time to at least slightly move on and stop using it as an excuse for current incompetence.

[@gudmundursteinar]

The mission point here is that if you are going to un-over engineer the river first you must find something else for 100,000,000 people lto do for a living and find food for them on the international market.

[@dhirenkhatri4810]

I laughed so hard at 'post colonial Pakistan' Was there a 'pre colonial' one?😂😂

[@FahadFSA]

was there a pre-colonial "hInDuStAn"? xDDDDDDDDDDD

[@akhandbharat1593]

@@FahadFSA maratha Empire was called hindvi swaraj

[@03.achyuthans39]

@@FahadFSA What did Mughal emperors call themselves in the title? Padishah of Hindustan right? Didn’t even Timur want to invade Hindustan? So yeah pre colonial Hindustan existed, named that way by Muslims in fact

[@FahadFSA]

@@03.achyuthans39 says the people who changing names of Mughal Parks xDDDD

[@Niman795]

@@FahadFSA Haan humne name change kiye tuje Kia tu apne liye aata aur electricity ka intezam kar gawar

[@darthnatas953]

One sided reporting. 1,600 people died in 2022 during "an unusually heavy monsoon season." Versus tens of thousands of people dying from starvation without the irrigation.

[@ajtmodelmaking]

Get an actual Modelmaker next time

[@Nexus-Technology]

Very informative but the opinions of the professors highlighted in this are very ignorant. The conditions of the modern world make it literally impossible to "just listen to indigenous knowledge instead of fixing the problem with modern engineering". Did they miss the part where agriculture employs 50% of the country? Or maybe the part about how the population of Pakistan has boomed exponentially since these changes were made, and this increase in agriculture is helping prevent starvation? If anything the recent global pandemic has shown how fragile international food supply lines can be and how nations should be encouraging domestic food production, not looking for ways to reduce it.

[@_kikyu]

i think what they mean is that pakistan should consider adapting some of the techniques of their indigenous into their modern system. it doesnt mean going from one extreme to another. it means being able to find a balance so that the people who rely on the indus river can have a long term solution for their water needs as the indigenous found out how to do it hundreds of years before the british came. the point is, is that their industrialist mindset is informed by people who either dont know, or care about the issue at hand and how to solve them. thats why they want to turn to indigenous methods for ideas as they have managed their water well for a logn time before.

[@nb8947]

Exactly, and blame 150 year old infrastructure instead of over population and the current corrupt government. Meanwhile South Korea got their independence only 50 years ago and are a first world nation. The whole rhetoric of blaming everything in south Asia on the British is really counter productive and gives a scapegoat to current governments.

[@Cumulo9]

and to think those 2 useless eaters are some "professors" earning probably 6 figure salary in some university in the west. puke

[@kkkk25yearsago79]

Pakistan can't manage their country 220M+ can't manage their country It must be Britsh fault

[@anemoxxa]

yeah Pakistan has a incompetent government, but that's a bad take. with low literacy rates, rising geographical and economic difficulties, ignorant government etc, its the same logic as saying "the extremely poor can help themselves". if you're so keen on saying that this is on the Pakistani population and the British have no accountability here, then tell me the solution.

[@Rishi6901]

Well they also blamed India for the floods they said India released water from their side dams that's why they are getting floods in the river.

[@anemoxxa]

@@Rishi6901 really..? why do you lot confuse people with political leaders? and who ever said that in the video?

[@hahidalgo21]

I mean if the population of a country grows fivefold and the water supply remains the same it makes sense that the water availability per capita will drop proportionately, it is simple math.

[@FahadFSA]

No, Pakistan could have made hundreds of dams and reservoirs to increase its per capita water availability.....

[@markusgorelli5278]

@@FahadFSA So x-amount of rain falls a year and you think all of it should be locked up in dams?

[@FahadFSA]

@@markusgorelli5278 look up videos of the August 2022 flood, that's the "x-amount" that needs to be locked by so it doesn't destroy the country.....

[@hahidalgo21]

@@FahadFSA Yes this is a solution, but if not implemented, as is in this case, then the per capita value will drop. Also, I hate it how the video focuses too much on the British colonizers. Pakistan has been an independent country for more than 50 years, so it is their fault that this problem exists.

[@riderchallenge4250]

They are breeding like animals.

[@glazzinfo6031]

their argument is base less 1. Dams increase storage capcity which is also necessary for sindh and balochistan. Pakistan have 30 days of water storage and india have 165 days. we need more dams. 2. Drip irrigation can be used to safe water to send extara water to delta region. 3. upper side of canal and lower side of canal can get same water with paved canals. we need to upgrade system not to blame it. 4. upstream people controlling water is a political issue not an engineering issue. 5. Pakistan get its most of rain in monsoon. All other months are mostly dry. so we have to rely on that system. we don't have rain all year so we need rivers and canals. 6. being an agricultural economy is not a bad thing. it makes us self sufficient in every hard time including war. like Ukraine. 7. agricultural villages can decrease population pressure on cities and provide jobs across wide land area. urbanization is not a good thing. it creates new challenges which cant be solved without so much money and also village life is always a dream for people like us in cities.

[@prathameshrathi3866]

Please note that in 1947, Brits divided India into India and Pakistan with their Two Nation Theory and not what you said that Pakistan gained independence.

[@Fireclaws10]

It doesn’t sound like the canals are the problem here. It sounds like climate change causing massive monsoons are causing these floods. On the contrary, the canals seem like a massive benefit.

[@Char444]

Exactly, Vox didn't give much proof.

[@thedamnedatheist]

But Vox couldn't figure out a way to blame the monsoons on the Brits.

[@twosinister]

I'm Pakistani Canadian but I feel like you should stop blaming British Colonialism for all the problems smh

[@shivamvishnu5539]

The canal building transformed the demographics and politics of this region. West Pakistan and now Pakistan may not even exist without these canals. The dominance of the feudal land owners and army elite who enjoyed British patronage made sure that democracy does not take a deep roots here. Indus river basin went from supporting a thin population to over 230Mil today. And now the cumulative ecological, economic and political consequences are showing. Thanks for an excellent explanation.

[@MaZe741]

stop ignoring the elephant in the room if you wanna go to pre-industrial traditions, the population must also be reduced to pre-industrial numbers

[@gauravbhatnagar6219]

Pakistan did not win INDEPENDANCE, Pakistan came into existence after the PARTITION OF INDIA. Keep your basics clear.

[@hke.4475]

Pakistan was always different from india

[@AtheistNationalist]

​@@hke.4475 the word "pakistan" itself was first used in 1920s. The word "India" was first used in 300 BCE by the Greeks

[@criscrosxxx]

@@hke.4475 in what ways ? Bengalis are bengalis punjabis are punjabis sindhis are sindhis pathans are pathans.

[@wretfsfvd]

in feb1947 British declare to give independence to India in June 1947 , it was decided to partition india into two part on 15 august 1947 , British sign the independence documents

[@Rockyrock511]

@@AtheistNationalist the word india comes from indus river which in pakistan. name your self gangia after ganges river not indus river.

[@sangy423]

Though Indus is in Pakistan..But it's very pious for us Indians and the mother river has blessed our civilization..Our culture, our heritage Indus❤️🙏

[@adiraj9198]

Aka Sindhu

[@mysterious7215]

@themastermind8847 kashmir is Indian you focus on Balochistan

[@03.achyuthans39]

@The Master mind it starts in the Himalayas which are the traditional northern limit of the “Indian” subcontinent… formed by the “Indian” Plate. Guess your people should focus more on electing proper representatives who don’t cause floods in the neighbouring province rather than focusing on terminology. It’s not enough if you get independence. Atleast try to make it work

[@sahilsingh6048]

@The Master mind u don't even know about history ever heard of Dravidian-indus civilization

[@Tsug2803]

@@rafaykhanyousefzai 1 Indian rupees to 3.30 pakistani rupees is your reality 😂

[@hassaanbukhari517]

if only Pakistani authorities were smart enough themselves and really cared about the public the floods would not have been so disastrous

[@JohnAdams-vd5dc]

Bro, you're spitting facts.

[@quiasnoorzad]

They only care for Punjab province

[@naintarabatool1150]

Yeah and u would stop climate change right?

[@fly463]

@@naintarabatool1150 Your mom will do it

[@TBH_Inc]

Why does it sound like she want to get rid of the modern engineering? Sure the flooding wouldn’t be as bad then, but there would also be a lot less farmland right? Shouldn’t they instead engineer it better?

[@cobragaming1186]

Now recently, india give notice to pak for modification of indus water treaty. Now, i think they will not need canal to distribute excess water....😂😂😂

[@jayakrishnannair3287]

Doesn't make sense. Blaming the "colonial mindset" and advocating to go back to indigenous solutions, while sitting in the country that did the colonization. If you go back to "indigenous solutions" as in destroying all then modern solutions. Millions will only starve to death

[@Yogi_YogendraChauhan]

great video ..very old fan since 2016 ..India

[@gregcollins3404]

I'm sorry, you can't say that this colonial mindset created this water system and increased the population fivefold is bad because the resulting population increase is overburdening the ecosystem.

[@yellow4563]

So… over all the effect was positive. Boosted the population many times over. Inequality in water management isn’t good, but still, they benefited from it.

[@amosjsoma]

Control rivers, irrigate land, grow crops and feed people. That sound terrible, we should let the people starve.

[@maqsoodahmadawan9065]

exactly my point.....I am Pakistani we are 5th largest population .....what we do stave?

[@ladhkay]

@@maqsoodahmadawan9065 You need sustainable growth, not uncontrolled because it is not practical long term. Your ppl have a very short sighted view which is why you suffer and will continue to do so.

[@riderchallenge4250]

@Zaydan Alfariz California has money pak dosen't

[@hitendrarocks]

First of all Pakistan doesn’t win independence…india won it…2nd due to British policy of divide and rule india was divided into 3 parts😞

[@mirfjc]

How many parts was it in before Britain arrived? I'll give you a hint, many more than 3. And it's just lazy in the extreme after 75 years to conclude the divisions were caused rather than used.

[@shayanraj7840]

@@mirfjc just one major part , see the map of Maratha empire

[@techaddictdude]

Do not listen to these individuals claiming to be experts. I am from Pakistan, and I can assure you that the real issue is not related to engineering or building canals and dams. Instead, it is political corruption that is the root cause of many problems. Some farm owners and landlords have intentionally located their farms near river basins and forced their workers to live in those areas, resulting in damage to their homes during floods. Contrary to the claims made by the experts in the video, the real problem is not solely with engineering. If engineering was a major issue, the earthquakes in Japan would have caused the skyscrapers to collapse(update: See what happened in Turkey). However, they remain standing and unharmed. Dams can help address the energy crisis in our country by storing water for power generation and agriculture. LOL Overseas Pakistani experts

[@Hugh.Manatee]

Maybe the old ways were better, definitely more sustainable, however, you can't turn back time. There are now 230 million people living in Pakistan. Going back to agropastoral farming can't sustain that population. I don't have a solution and I assume the people advocating for "indigenous knowledge systems" are aware of this. Pakistan is in need of a robust long-term water management plan, but I'm really afraid ideologies and politics are going to get in the way of a sensible solution.

[@kalpadhwaryu7929]

One of the very few videos about Pakistan without having the word India in it.

[@Warlock786]

There are many such videos. Issue with INdians is they think they have to involve themselves wherever Pakistan is mentioned,

[@anaesthete5592]

@@Warlock786 actually the vast majority of the videos about Pakistan mentions India and that's the issue with Pakistanis for them everything about Pakistan starts and end with India the existence of pakistan is depended on it

[@kalpadhwaryu7929]

​@@anaesthete5592 True.

[@JohnAdams-vd5dc]

@Zaydan Alfariz Lies. Vox wrongly sides with Pakistan over Kashmir.

[@JohnAdams-vd5dc]

@@Warlock786 Oh really? Kashmir belongs to India and it seems all Pakistanis ever do is cry about it. So who is involved when who is mentioned? Maybe focus on fixing the terrorism issue in your country before it destroys Pakistan from the inside out.

[@Naveen-tq7cg]

A large channel like Vox couldn't interview or even consult a hydrologist when making a video about canals?

[@dudebro755]

the british were the greatest blessing to the subcontinent, im from pk and i thankgod our region was colonized, if it were to be left to the mughal mfs wed have invented different types of biryanis and palaces

[@YouTubappreciater]

First of all, Thank You the team which created this video. Really we are indebted to you. Here in Pakistan institutions and responsible authorities and people don't pay attention to real problems. I'm glad that your channel highlighted this issue. Secondly, Kindly make a video about possible solutions. Pakistan's population is growing exponentially. Really it's a mess. The rivers are our lifeline. Dams create cheap electricity. By the way currently the rate of electric current is too expensive for middle class. Thus there is greater focus on building new dams so cheap electricity can be produced. Water scarcity is scary. I'm sad to inform that authorities are not paying attention.

[@yashkale5639]

India has always followed the treaty and never blocked water supply to Pakistan even during 4 wars

[@kamalsidhu7454]

So what? indus river is there in modern day Pakistan for centuries. Also how can you stop and divert such a huge amount of river water through highly mountainous region?

[@Dr.abhinavkaushik]

@@kamalsidhu7454 we will divert it

[@umaryusuf537]

@@Dr.abhinavkaushik diverting the Indus is not possible by India

[@سلامہريکے]

@@Dr.abhinavkaushik not possible baljeet and the indus river starts from china

[@jarjarbinks3193]

@@سلامہريکے You Wumao ought to know the fact that there isn't much that can be done at the point of origin. The river flow THRU India before reaching Pakistan.

[@Dudenier]

The British actually created alot of farmlands for the pakistanis with their canals…

[@Chloe0418]

Yes they did. And when Pakistan took it over, they ruined it. What a shame.

[@Char444]

@@Chloe0418 Nope, Pakistan inherited this british way of building canals and so it did build more canals, barrages and dams during 60's to 90's. The problem here isn't the water infrastructure but global warming

[@breezemont1161]

Well to make it more simple, british created Pakistan itself in the first place.

[@kajekaiori]

Expertly outlined the problem, weakly defended the solution to it.

[@124akshat]

What the vox does not realise is that if the British had not built the Canal system that region would not be able to support even half the population that it can today. Which means mass starvation. Building sophisticated canal systems is actually one of the more positive legacies of British rule

[@vaibhavbhore]

6:00 Pakistan didn't win independence, it was India who won then Pakistan created, how can it win if it didn't even exist before

[@hellmaker6661]

The issue is not only the canal system but how much water goes to waste using this system. Process is known to be incredibly inefficient and due to that, almost 80% of all farming in Pakistan is done by ground water instead of the rivers. At independence (1947), ground water use for farming was less than 10%. This has put an enormous pressure on ground water supplies in the country.

[@WinTeRzZ47]

???

[@tonymarik1649]

@Zaydan Alfariz Im pretty sure he means that using groundwater tends to be unsustainable, since it replenishes slowly. But it depends on how deep do you dig for the water..

[@krealyesitisbeta5642]

A wise man once said: “Water, water, everywhere... but not a drop to drink.”

[@DoctorSkillz]

Wayne Gretzky

[@rajpoot99]

Solution lies in Regenerative/ paradoxical agriculture which will save 80 percent water used in agriculture. There is no need for dams and mega structures risking environment and money. We need new agricultural practices. PQNK agriculture method by Dr Asif sharif of Pakistan could be an inclusive and conclusive example in this regard.

[@doctorshawzy6477]

Unrestricted population growth is the only problem....

[@SOUVIK_RAY_]

*International & Pakistani media:* "India and Pakistan got independence from British in 1947" *Correction:* India got independence from British in 1947 and Pakistan was created. The piece of land called Pakistan today always belonged to India (called Bharat varsha in ancient times) since thousands of years with its fair share of rich history.

[@Ankit-d9f4u]

India was aldo created kid There was no india It was all Marathas, mughals etc

[@MrBoliao98]

I think its a cheap to blame everything on the colonisers. They left two generations ago, more than 70 years ago. The overbred 5 fold, and did not resolve their irrigation issue. You are independent, and you're responsible for it. As for the Barrage that irrigate Sindh, its very rich of Siddiqi to criticise the mentality and thinking when it is responsible for the date industry in Sindh and exports for Pakistan, something essential when the country constantly runs out of foreign exchange. You lot are the ones spending beyond your means and now so dependent on Date Exports for foreign exchange. And well, precisely it's your own corruption and squabbling. Punjab bullying Sindh, and your own quarreling and removal of levees.

[@offred6013]

Yeah just return all the looted wealth first then bark.

[@isuzu343]

Exactly! At what point will they ever take responsibility for their actions? The British never asked Pakistan to become a de facto military dictatorship and spend every available penny on the military for them to wage pointless wars.

[@MrBoliao98]

@@offred6013Pakistan is the one still under colonialism with that mindset. Out earn the British and live your own life. I'm from a colony too, and you know what we are too busy living our own prosperous lives than have time to find fault and blame others for our own inept.

[@MrBoliao98]

@@isuzu343 how much they must have spent on nuclear weapons, and now they run out of foreign exchange to the point they borrow from India. Why point rockets when India can simply cut foreign currency and bankrupt Pakistan.

[@alhesiad]

Why so much focus on the british, who built 1 barrage, instead of the Pakistan government that built 18 of them?

[@Monaleenian]

It's the soft bigotry of low expectations.

[@heehaw69000]

I have mad resect to the person who made the model and stop motion animation!

[@badassadlusifer820]

So whats the solution then?

[@bhavyesheshma2067]

Pakistan won independence????? It basically separated itself from India to get a separate 'pure' Muslim nation!!!

[@FahadFSA]

jali na?

[@bhavyesheshma2067]

@@FahadFSA nope...just corrected their statement!

[@bhavyesheshma2067]

@@FahadFSA why would anyone be jealous of Pakistan?

[@bhavyesheshma2067]

@@rafaykhanyousefzai nope...that's what really happened...everyone knows that!

[@bhavyesheshma2067]

@@rafaykhanyousefzai so?

[@bhaskarmandavilli8501]

What about irrigation? and taking everyone along with you? As if it is something that is possible in a big country. Yes human engineering has caused floods and calamities sometimes, but it also enabled more people to live on this planet.

[@KJSvitko]

Education and birth control are key to reducing poverty and hunger. Wasting energy, water or money is just not acceptable. We can do better. Every home and business should install rain water collection and storage systems along with solar panels and battery storage. Countries need to do more to become self sufficient.

[@arijitchoudhury3876]

India should immediately scrap Indus Water Treaty until POK is given back to us.

[@ooppww1923]

All fun and games until India built dam on Indus and stop its flow altogether to Pakistan flood solved BTW Indus originates from india

[@SATWIKRAJ-x3b]

Your pridiction comes true

[@wretfsfvd]

not now , also it is against treaty and even we stop it dam it will damage large part of ecosystem in Kashmir

[@SATWIKRAJ-x3b]

@@wretfsfvd have you seen news that water is getting moved towards Kashmir only Ravi water and other 3 water will also have ram for electricity generation in Jammu dam will not effect kashmiri as it will based on storage purpose and if you are talking about lakes so no lakes doesn't get those water from 3 rivers

[@hariskhan-xj4wk]

indus originate in tibet china...google before u comment u mandarchap pajeet

[@SATWIKRAJ-x3b]

@@hariskhan-xj4wk punchur abdul check your country literacy rate 😂😂

[@globalislamicreminders]

Tbh as a Pakistani the problem is not the irrigation system which is vast and the best in the world. The problem is climate change and extreme weather which causes alot of rain. So it's countries that contribute most to pollution that need to be held accountable

[@quiasnoorzad]

Nah Pakistan is still suffering from colonialism mindset unfortunately

[@mudra5114]

@@quiasnoorzad Nah, the behaviour of the Pakistani elite is classic anti colonial, corrupt and indisciplined. While the colonial British Government was clean and disciplined. Corruption in both India and Pakistan increased exponentially as it moves more and more away from the British Empire era.