The Drydock - Episode 066

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@robinvanrossum4522]

Do you have any tips for using springsharp? Or did you already have a video about that can I get a link?

[@justacomment1657]

Hi Drachinifel, i woke up today and wondered. During ww2.... Turbines were widely used on warships, From my understanding one needs to boil something that can evaporate to generate steampressure to, that presszre then gets the turbine blades going....i do know the boilers were fired with oil - but what water did they use to generate steam? Salt/Seawater? If so - how did it getin there? Did they just pump it in on demand or were there some kind of water bunkers? Alsow wouldnt saltwater leave salt behind? degenerating the efficiancy of anything coming in touch with it? Even accelerate corroding of things? Alsow have there been different types of turbine engines around? Might leading ship A to accelerate faster while ship B could go faster because of that? I realy wonder....all we seem to look at when comparing ships speeds is weight, hydrodynamics and general Shaft Horsepower.... not nuch goes into the Drivetrain itself. I'd realy wonder if you can go in a little more detail about this? For instance the engine of Prinz Eugen seemd to be a nightmare for the us-crewmen to keep running... best regards

[@alexbush2183]

Please do wargame the allied navy Vs the Japanese navy in the scenario at the 1hour 40 mark I think it would be very interesting, maybe allow the Japanese to have all possible available carriers and battleships in service to even up the odds

[@Jodonho]

@@justacomment1657 Desalinated water. Salt water will corrode everything in the steam cycle. (Steam is also used to produce fresh water. ) Boilers and condensers have special chemical controls to prevent corrosion and minimize salt damage.

[@justacomment1657]

@@Jodonho so did they bunk it like oil? or could they make it onderway?

[@Kevin_Kennelly]

Drachisms of the Day: 11:03 "I think you could probably best describe Halsey as an effective admiral in the same way as a man charging into a knife-fight, wielding a sledge-hammer is effective." 11:44 (on Yamamoto) "He was also the one who ran and organized the battle of Midway from the Japanese side and, well, that didn't go particularly well for them. Did it?" 16:07 "It became a 'Sail closer, I literally want to hit them with my sword.' Drop the corvus. Pin the enemy in place so it can't use it's superior seafaring skills against you. And then pour legionaries across. And then cut everyone to pieces. And that worked fairly well for them." 16:45 "The Roman Navy went from 'We're really an army, only we float.' stage." 21:50 "And I'm sorry to say, but, sitting around Scapa Flow, and looking out at various views of the North Sea, in it's multiple stages of gray...is not ESPECIALLY attractive." 1:29:54 "The greater Chilean economic prosperity sphere."

[@stevehomeier8368]

One can't overlook the morale effect that Halsey had on the USN after Pearl Harbor. The reckless aggressiveness that was his nature buoyed a demoralized fleet. As far as his actual leadership, yeah not so great.

[@russell7489]

So you figure Japan never had a chance to cower US into a deal? What if Japan had had US quality at sea supplying, kept 2 air fleets at Hawaii until every ship was sunk, lured back carriers, added in, had guts to use battle ship fleet to sink them with direct charge if need be then terror shell Hawaiian cities and every fuel storage facility and power plant all close to shores using planes to wipe out every air field and bridge reducing Hawaii's use as a base, then move on, wipe Anchorage off the map and every other Alaskan and Canadian coastal city out of dive bomber range of major air fields, ie, Seattle, conduct hit and run long distance bombing on west coast targeting fragile oil industry, CA was major source of US oil and it was all right at the coast, targeting Hollywood whose PR role cannot be under estimated. Very few bombs followed by easily carried fire bombs would have reduced both to cinders fairly easily. Japanese Kamikaze tech would have worked wonders letting pilots whose only skill was most easily learned navigation launch from double distance off shore making detection much harder come in bomb at 'suicidal' low altitudes ensuring hits, and then if they managed to land / bail out there was still a very good chance they'd just be locked up for rest of war. Oh, and then there was the Panama canals Pacific locks, power plants, hard to get from air, but easy meat for 2 ton shells fired 20 miles out to sea save under fighter cover after stuffing carriers with ONLY fighters for a one or two day attack on the locks. The US would have needed to devote 10,000 fighter dive bombers and 10,000 4 engine search planes to defend the west coast from Alaska To Mexico or even the entire Pacific Coast of Americas if Japan choose to terror attack say Chilean cities to either force country to surrender allow Japanese bases, mine and build planes ships, even conscript 'allied' divisions to hold flanks ala Germany or just defend country from US sea borne invasion / bombing etc. Japan could have rolled up S Pacific coast doing that if US didn't defend each country as hard as it did itself. This would have delayed US efforts in defeating Germany, and Russia seeing US wasn't going to help anytime soon might have negotiated another 'deal' with Hitler as they did in starting WWII by splitting Poland with Germany - say Germany gets Ukraine and everything S of Stalingrad inc all the oil and 200 miles of land from Polish border and another 500 mile demilitarized zone along with 1 million tons of grain and steel a year, Russia limits war production subject to German inspection - which would have let Germany poach Russia's winning tank tech. Yes this would have required that we never had broken Japanese codes, but, if Japan (and everyone else) had not been so egotistical to believe in unbreakable codes to begin with, and with high speed planes to move messages within a day almost anywhere (in incendiary equipped safes to prevent falling into enemy hands) for strategic planning and use of one time codes, book codes for prearranged messaging there would have been so little coded intercepts breaking them would have been actually impossible. Thanks for the mental flossing today, always good to exercise the brain.

[@MrArtbv]

@@russell7489 EXCEPT.. Japan DID NOT EVER DEVELOP A "Fleet Train". It took the USN until the end of 43, early 44 to build and deploy one. The Japanese didn't have the military resources to carry out a sustained campaign against Hawaii, much less even a single sortie against the West coast. They possessed a handful, literally, of Fleet Oilers. That. Was. It. AND, AND.. What assets they did have couldn't be in two places FIVE THOUSAND MILES APART, ie conquering the Dutch oil fields of Indonesia and the Brits in Malaysia AND simultaneously leveling Hawaii. PERIOD. FULL STOP. The idea they could manage to bomb the length and breadth of Washington, Oregon, and California and then all the way down to Panama is laughable. THEY LITERALLY COULD NOT HAVE SUPPLIED THE FUEL FOR THE ROUND TRIP. Much less provided the necessary avgas, lubricants, munition resupply, food.. ALL OF IT.. for sustained operations. Your whole scenario is beyond hopeless for a nation with 20% of the American PRE-WAR industrial capacity. They didn't "Have it"; because it was beyond their capacity to build it. The. End.

[@nickboy3024]

1:41:30 the Japanese may get their decisive battle you never know!

[@RobinTheBot]

@@MrArtbv thanks for taking on that wild ride of a wall of text

[@thomas316]

Would love a 5 minute guide to Liberty ships. The most numerous ships built in WW2, where they all alike or did the design evolve? What where the typical configurations for those that where armed? What lessons where learned? Did they really crack and sink in cold water due to shoddy welding or is that urban myth/isolated incidents? 🤔

[@locomotiveAlex1996]

a channel called Mustard has a fantastic video on the liberty ships, that may also be worth your time.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

were*

[@CharlesStearman]

The cracking was at least partly due to the hatches having square corners which led to a 'stress concentration' at those points, something that wasn't understood at the time.

[@Wolfeson28]

@@CharlesStearman So, essentially the same issue as the De Havilland Comet's windows?

[@Bird_Dog00]

I think there were several issues. Having rectangular hatches certainly creates weak points. Given the "we need as many hulls as possible as fast as possible" nature of the construction program, bad welding due to rushed work and newly trained, inexperienced welders were probably a thing too. Add to this the fact that steel - along with any other material - gets more brittle in cold temprature, and that due to cost and simple availability they probably didn't use the highest quality of steel in the first place, and you get what is sometimes refered to as a "murder in the orient express"-szenario (spoiler allert: more than one culprit).

[@thepolishnz]

Roman navy doctrine sounds like how navies are explained on the goons. What is a navy? A navy my Lord, is an army, entirely surrounded by water.

[@klobiforpresident2254]

I don't know if there's any motorways next to the coast in England. However, for the sake of the mental image I'll assume there are. If you, Drach, had a re-engines Hood as your personal yacht and didn't have to be anywhere near the bow, would you go at full speed next to a motorway, just to see if (1) you'll overtake people and (2) your bow wave will wash small cars off the road? Furthermore, what do you think would happen to anyone standing on the fo'c'sle of this ship? What if someone, Titanic style, stood right at the very front (and somehow could hold on instead of flying off at the very first wave)?

[@myparceltape1169]

There used to be a stretch of railway line close to the coast. Hood actually could have charged alongside it once or twice if it could miss the rocks. We know where Hood is now. The railway line was washed away in a storm.

[@klobiforpresident2254]

@@myparceltape1169 Sure, a "storm" washed the railway lines away. Your secret is safe with us, time traveller.

[@myparceltape1169]

@@klobiforpresident2254 I thought everyone knew that. OK

[@Thumpalumpacus]

Regarding admirals who excelled outside their specialties, I think Adm Spruance is a splendid example; he went from good cruiser admiral to good carrier admiral.

[@bigblue6917]

They did build a large clinker built ship. They took it out on a sea trial and it flexed so much that everyone on board was terrified it would fall apart and sink. They got it back to port where it never sailed again.

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Always love these extra long Drydocks, thank you for the work you do Drach. Firstly, the 6 figures you listed for my question, that would be an interesting meeting and the results would be.....explosive for sure. I especially love the selection of Barbossa. Secondly, the USS United States was considered a fast sailing ship but was extremely clumsy, she was called "The old wagon." Whereas the Constitution and President were considered slower but more agile and easier to handle. All 3 ships were essentially the same class but were built in different yards. Lastly, Halsey was massively overrated and I'm so glad people are finally acknowledging that. Spruance was much better and had a much better temperament. And Ozawa was massively underrated. He was extremely smart and compassionate to his men. He also was nicknamed the Gargoyle and stood at 6.7 tall.

[@sarjim4381]

Halsey was a great public relations guy. He was never involved in a battle that he didn't win. and he won it because he was in command. He got the nickname "Bull" not only because of his imposing bulk but also because he was like the bull in the china shop. Up until his death, he never really took responsibility for the Battle off Samar or his predilection to sail into typhoons. He was a prefect admiral for 1942, when a no fear attack was the only way to survive. By 1944, he was one of the worst admirals the USN could have in charge.

[@John-ru5ud]

Halsey was the right admiral for Guadalcanal. The demoralization under Ghormley was so extensive it jeopardized the entire campaign. However, Halsey found himself promoted beyond his level of competence by reason of his PR. Leyte Gulf and two typhoons should have beached him.

[@leops1984]

Halsey was the perfect admiral if you had a command that was demoralized, down in the dumps, and needed to get back in the fight. He made perfect sense for SOPAC, especially replacing the ineffectual Ghormley. If anything, you can argue that his work there was his best work of the war. The problem was when Halsey got *in* a fight, well... "Bull" Halsey was aptly named. (Even if he hated the nickname.) Good quasi-theater commander in the South Pacific, but a mixed bag as a tactical commander. In the latter capacity I think Spruance was far superior, and the unjustly maligned Fletcher would also have fared better as well.

[@sarjim4381]

@@leops1984 Yes, when I'm asked about Halsey I reply "1942 Halsey or the 1944 version of Halsey?". They were different enough a casual observer could be forgiven for thinking they were two different persons. The 1942 model was was able to spin bilge water into gold, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, and stopping what seemed to be the inexorable advance of Japan by late 1942. He ran over or irritated anyone who got in his way to get to the goal of saving the allies. Every second counted, so there was no time for elaborate planning or getting permission from those far away in Pearl or Washington. Unfortunately for Halsey, he continued to operate the same way into mid-1944, when the allies were no longer on the knife's edge of defeat, and time was no longer as important as it was two years previously. This was also the time when the bills came due from all the officers run roughshod over in 1942. Halsey continued to make mistakes, and it took higher and higher level; of brass to get his butt out of his scrapes. The end of the war came none too soon to save what remained of Halsey's battered reputation.

[@glennricafrente58]

@@leops1984 Glad you mentioned the much maligned Fletcher. It always saddened me how the CO in Coral Sea and Midway could be so unsung in posterity.

[@andrewfanner2245]

Last week I toured round George Averoff, the last armoured cruiser, still a warship of the Hellenic Navy. Strongly recommend you do so if you have not visited. As a bonus, Olympias lies nearby, the reproduction trireme. They do rowing days...:-)

[@briannicholas2757]

At 19:10 , that picture of Soviet Admiral Gorshkov is the perfect example of the expression we used in the 1980s US army: "He's got more medals than a Russian Admiral." In all fairness to the navy types out there, the Soviet Generals weren't far behind when it came to decorating their chests.

[@MrArtbv]

Re: Ozawa "Doing better" .. NO Japanese admiral is going to signficantly affect the outcome of WW2 without completely reordering the ENTIRE Japanese approach to naval aviation training, deployment, and replacement basically all the way back to inception. As that system was a reflection of cultural values baked into the DNA of the institution... Not. Gonna. Happen. Japanese Naval Aviators were seen as modern aerial "Samurai"; an incredibly elite and select, and correspondingly TINY group. The IJN couldn't even replace the minor attritional losses suffered supporting land operations against China AND provide pilots for new additional carriers entering service. Once the wider war started in 41 it was literally just a matter of time before they ran out of trained pilots. By the middle of 43 the IJN fleet air arm was crippled, at the start of 44 they were a spent force. "Implacable Foes; The Pacific War 1944-45" goes into great detail outlining this problem all the way back to the early 30s. Think about this; the Zuikaku missed Midway because the IJN literally couldn't come up with aircrews to replace her losses during Coral Sea. While there were plenty of available Zeroes and pilots to theoretically deploy her as a "CAP" carrier if nothing else.. Rigid IJN doctrine precluded that as even a concept. By contrast the USN sailed Yorktown with scratch airgroups assembled in a matter of hours. "Shattered Sword" also examines the short falls of the IJN deployment doctrines, with an emphasis on how the uniqeness of each individual IJN carrier prevented them from transferring squadrons from carrier to carrier or even to a degree individual pilots.

[@MrArtbv]

@@stanleyrogouski Heh..

[@bkjeong4302]

@@stanleyrogouski Actually most Japanese pilot losses took place in the Solomons. Midway was surprisingly light on pilot losses.

[@bkjeong4302]

Stanley Rogouski But that was the only Japanese carrier at Midway to suffer pilot losses greater than 50%: the three that were lost earlier in the battle had most of their pilots saved by other Japanese warships.

[@lukedogwalker]

Sailing characteristics and build quality differences between ships of the same class are not limited to age of sail vessels, but include everything in the modern era, right up to the present day. The RN's current Type 23 frigates are basically divided into two groups from a build quality perspective, with those constructed at Yarrow considered better built than those built at Swan Hunters. Swan have since gone bust as a ship builder... they're now just a consultancy, i.e. an office with a few desks in it and BMWs parked outside.

[@billbolton]

'floaty log' would make a good museum ship.

[@voiceofraisin3778]

The Captains log of the HMS FLoaty log would be interesting, would it be log squared or the 2x4?

[@raygiordano1045]

"Floaty Log" would also be a good name for a band.

[@imouse3246]

I might have picked the Titanic, or the Lusitania, instead. Subjective.

[@bigblue6917]

Actually my archaeology tutor did find such a boat and it now resides in our local museum.

[@billbolton]

@@bigblue6917 fascinating. The floaty log references an April fools day special from Drach.

[@dernwine]

So there is some interesting work being done in terms of very early roman military history (read pre punic wars), that's over turning a lot of previous thought on things like Roman Naval doctrine. Archaeological evidence, as opposed to historical, is now indicating that Roman Naval Policy in the 4th and 3rd century BCE may have resembled English Tudor Naval doctrine. According to War and Society in Ancient Rome, yes there wasnt a state fleet in Rome (but that's not a surprise in the 300s a state army was still a new fangled thing), instead Roman Naval policy was a privately operated thing, with Naval minded Paterfamilias pursuing naval expeditions for their own personal gains, which in turn would translate to gains for Rome. Effectively the continuation of the Patrician method of war but on the seas rather than on land, where it was being replaced by the legions.

[@dernwine]

Now whether you consider this a doctrine or simply an absence of doctrine is of course a matter of personal interpretation. Personally I'd avoid the word doctrine because it implies a degree of centralisation that was likely absent from rome prior to circa 350BCE. But that's just me.

[@VintageCarHistory]

When you showed the photo of Beatty and then said you had picked three, I immediately thought, "Halsey BETTER be on this list!"

[@RedXlV]

Halsey was the US Navy answer to MacArthur. Well, not *as* bad as MacArthur, but they had the same propensity for successfully covering up their failures via self-promotion.

[@VintageCarHistory]

@@RedXlV I'd say the main difference between these two is that Halsey didn't burn his political bridges. MacArthur didn't know how to shut up when he needed to- which is important for any flag officer to know how to do.

[@dougjb7848]

It is humorous that in _Hunt for Red October,_ Ramius dismisses Halsey. The line may have been mostly intended to demonstrate that Ramius was both well read and blunt, but today a lot of naval historians are saying “da, tovarisch, Halsey acted shtupidly.”

[@lionheartx-ray4135]

(British plans to defend Singapore and the Far East) This brings a good point of how important that Italy was in the Axis. The amount of resources used in the Mediterranean sea is often over looked in general WW2 History.

[@RedXlV]

Also how unfortunate it was that the French fleet was removed from the war. Imagine if Paul Reynaud 's proposal to merge France and the UK into a single nation had gone through instead of Petain's takeover and surrender. Granted, the only way that could've actually gotten approved would've been if Petain and at least half of the French cabinet had been assassinated in advance. (Which wouldn't have been such a bad thing anyway.)

[@chrisgott3456]

But how even with a huge fleet do you defend Singapore by land without a lot of British troops? Isn't this the core of the defense problem? Guess the reinforced fleet could shell the crap out of them and put balance of air fight but not sure how it would go. Certainly better I guess.

[@Wolf-Rayet_Arthur]

1:05:16 I gave you a little round of applause on the bus. You did very well in deducing which ship the album cover guns were from and it deserves a short disregard for social norms. People on the bus are looking at me in surprise. I interpret this as further honour of your knowledge

[@lebverderben]

Not picking HMS Warspite for your yacht? Who are you and what have you done with Drach?

[@Mishn0]

Just did a little searching on the USS Massachusetts BB-2. The statue off of the forward turret still exists. It's in Dalghren Hall at the USNA.

[@m35benvids87]

Thank you to Drachinifel for answering these questions and also thanks to everyone asking the questions. I have learned things I never knew I needed to learn.

[@JessWLStuart]

I see your points concerning the overrated admirals and would add these reasons: Beaty - an ambiguous communicator who wasted opportunities by not directing his fleet effectively. Halsey - the Japanese played his expectations during the Philippines battles to get him to leave his invasion fleet nearly unprotected. Yamamoto - the most effective thing he could have done was keep Japan out of the war entirely. He knew the potential of the USA to overwhelm Japan. Didn't 2 lieutenants beat the Japanese naval strategy for WWII before Japan was involved in the war?

[@cvproj]

Part of Yamamoto's ineffectiveness was psychological - he knew he was fighting an unwinnable war. That has a tendency to wear on a person and negatively affect their command style. "In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success." - en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto Halsey was an arrogant a**. Typhoon Cobra would have beached him in any other circumstances, but higher authority worried about the effect on morale if he was relieved of command. The less said about Beatty (and Seymour), the better.

[@bkjeong4302]

Re: Halsey, do note that with the timetable of the invasion the Japanese couldn't have attacked the transports anyways.

[@comunistubula4424]

1:08 "In the age of sails,there were no production lines,there were no standardized parts..." Enter the Venetian Arsenal....

[@mitchelloates9406]

You will be quite pleased to know, that your 3 armored cruisers from Rule The Waves, will fit in nicely with Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts. One of the currently available scenarios is to attack an undefended convoy, and you have 20 minutes to close the range and sink 10 transports. My solution was to build a 28 knot "battlecruiser" in the SMS Blucher vein, with triple 9 inch turrets superfiring fore and aft, and another triple 9 inch on either side as a wing turret - no secondarys or torpedo tubes - optimized for long range gunnery and reload speed, firing heavy shells filled with Lyddite for maximum blast and fire damage. The same design also worked surprisingly well in another scenario attacking a defended convoy, where the guard force is three old armored cruisers and a pair of pre-dreadnought battleships.

[@ogscarl3t375]

I believe one of my family members served on HMS Exeter during the war from what my Nanna said her uncle always said it was the most beautiful ship he'd ever gotten the privilege to serve on.

[@bsdetecter2556]

Every once in a while, you unleash the malignant side of your sense of humour. I appreciate that.

[@seanmccann8368]

Fascinating collection of the eclectic, absurd, intriguing and informative as always, thank you.

[@Raptorrat]

As for the list of raised ships, I would've included RMS Brittanic; sunk as a hospital ship, so it counts. So your museum also has some hotel facilities, next to the gift shop.

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

22:30 6 person round table, may I suggest what worked for MacGyver rrr, Richard Dean Anderson, rrrr, Jack O'neill. "D'you think they liked the fruit basket?" lol.

[@diltzm]

Underrated comment

[@forgivenbyg]

During the question about the survivability of the Warspite vs the Malaya during Jutland you have a picture of a great print. Just wondering the name of it. That would be perfect hanging on my wall...

[@mrpagrant]

When you talked about the U.S. Space Shuttles, you forgot the Shuttle Enterprise! It may never have gone into space, but it was shuttle #OV-101, and was the first orbiter of the Space Shuttle system. Then again, it wasn't named after a sailing ship, but was named after NCC-1701 The Starship Enterprise! :)

[@agesteiro7326]

With rosisvensky in the room hide all binoculars.

[@samsignorelli]

And if you want to stop him mid-sentence, just say "Kamchatka."

[@agesteiro7326]

@@samsignorelli then i also purpose bring a bottle of nerve medicine for him so he don’t blow his safetyvalve.

[@samsignorelli]

@@agesteiro7326 I'd say a whole CASE of said medicine!!

[@michaelpfister1283]

Kudos for the "Starblazers" reference of fitting a wave-motion gun on the Yamato. :-) And for your consideration on historical ships ... Noah's Ark? Anyone?

[@dariuszrutkowski420]

It didn't sink so technically disqualified - sorry.

[@slightlyshabby9226]

Was sad I could not “double like” this vid after the wave motion gun reference.

[@knusern666]

If i could preserve any ship real or not i would get the native on a log from civ 1 that sunk my brand new (and only) ironclad.. #ragequit

[@knight-ot3ji]

I am so happy to get off work an see a new Drachinifel video posted

[@Tuning3434]

1:20:00 Nice photo, you can actually see in the progression of the fire that the center gun fires a tiny bit sooner as the outside guns, in order to reduce interference of a triple turret guns.

[@seafodder6129]

I was looking at that one hard as well. It actually looks like the center gun fires first, the starboard gun second and the port gun last. But the difference in time between the shots appears to be _very_ small such that in real time I think the human eye/ear/brain would be hard pressed to say they didn't all fire at the same moment. Wondering if anyone knows what the actual time delay was between the shots? Milliseconds? Microseconds?

[@kemarisite]

@@seafodder6129 navweaps says 60 milliseconds. These were increased to full second delays from gun to gun to address a whipping problem in the 80s.

[@seafodder6129]

@@kemarisite Thanks. That makes sense, barrel droop is a Thing ('cause metal fatigue is a Thing) and even back in the 80's those things were old. I'm old I have have the same problem... ;-) Though given the quality and color of the picture in the video, that sure looks like it was taken in the 80s as opposed to the 40s and the spacing between the bursts looks a lot shorter than a full second...

[@kemarisite]

@@seafodder6129 when I looked at the photo, I thought that looked like the order was center-right-left, but according to navweaps that order was left-right-center. I guess that just says I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at.

[@seafodder6129]

@@kemarisite Same. Maybe the camera angle? I dunno but I agree with center-right-left from the photo as well. Be nice if a GM that was aboard one of the Iowas in the 80s would chime in...

[@bushyfromoz8834]

Warspite also has the advantage of plot armor over Malaya as well ;)

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I'm suprised you wouldn't want to refloat HMS Captain, well I mean It's probably try sink itself again wouldn't it.

[@barryjones8842]

Another great Drydock. Follow up comment of Age of Sail class sailing differences - the captains of each ship had a fair amount of discretion on a number of things that could effect the overall ship's performance - armament for instance - Carronades, when first introduced were quite often optional, not required, often times the ships of the same class would have different cannon, based on availability (there were two types of 18 pdr cannon for the RN's 18pdr Frigates with different weights for example). Captains and Masters had a great deal of leeway in how they trimmed their ship and the trim would change thru out the voyage as stores were consumed and trim significantly affects sailing qualities. Often, Captains would a significant influence on the ship's rig, as well. Also, it seems that the "knot log" used to calculate speed was not uniform. Frequently the Knot log was set up to show slightly faster speeds thru the water as this made dead reckoning navigation safer (ships crossing the Atlantic would sail along a line of latitude that would take them to a well known landfall and in that case it is better to be a little short of landfall than a little late!).

[@johnnyscott3698]

Sovereign of the Seas (Golden Devil edition) definitely a strong runner up here for the museum!

[@SurfTrekTonics]

Wow good sir I am impressed, you were able to accurately research a battleship from the Clutch Album cover of a turret pic. You are the King of naval historians....

[@scipioafricanus6417]

Caesar did not lead a massive campaign to erradicate the pirates, he just killed the band which had captured him, it was Pompey, his later rival, who led this campaign. And one of the very reasons for the rampaging piracy was the fact that this was the "hight of the roamn republic" (rather fall of the republic) and the political situation was so fragile that no one cared about the pirates or had the means to prosecute them, until Pompey that is.

[@NotAJollyPotato]

Ohh boy. Ginna have to watch this when I set my laptop up. 2 hour special edition. Thank you for your work Drach

[@aebirkbeck2693]

the Japanese navy did have a habit of very overly complicated plans that relied on the enemy following your expectations, they never picked up on Moltke the Elder's "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy"

[@bkjeong4302]

This so much.

[@sundiver137]

I thought that was Clausewitz's quote, but you're dead right regarding the Japanese military. Parshall and Tully in "Shattered Sword" remark that the idea never met with a less receptive audience than the Imperial Navy. Throw in their reluctance to use ANY combat aircraft in a scouting role at Midway and their inability to properly gauge Hiryu's air strength by early afternoon of 4 June and you have all the ingredients that guarantee a total defeat.

[@aebirkbeck2693]

I agree, being an ex serviceman you must have a plan because a bad plan if far better than no plan at all. also you trained over and over that when the plan failed because of your training would kick in and you make a new plan and when that fails you make another plan etc until you accomplish the end you were looking for.

[@lcook82]

Question for drydock. What do you think would have been the effect of the Tillman class battleships had they gone into production? Would it result in a ridiculous arms race? Did any other navies have plans for anything similar?

[@MGBait]

Just a note about your answer on Roman navies, their naval inexperience was relatively brief. They only used the corvus during the First Punic War and quickly dropped it once they got their sea legs (it raised the centre of gravity of the galley too high). By the Second Punic War, the Romans had the technical sophistication that they owned the western Mediterranean. It also meant they could utilize both boarding and ramming tactics.

[@pdunderhill]

Settles in for nearly two hours of the good stuff!, Thanks Drach:)

[@michaeljones9861]

Thanks for answering my question Drach. It is a wise man who picks warm weather over raw power.

[@soupordave]

With regards the question at 00:56:24, I would argue that Yamamoto had a tougher time adjusting to the aircraft paradigm than many think. Despite the potential of air power he still thought his decisive battle would come down to the battleships slugging it out. The Pearl Harbor raid was specifically targeted at Battleship Row in keeping with the Big Gun mentality he and the IJN still clung to. Throughout the war Japanese battleships were kept largely in reserve for the "Decisive Battle" while their carriers were sent out to draw out the US Navy. The result of course was they wasted away their carrier strength at Coral Sea, Midway, and the Marianas Turkey Shoot. IJN and USN Battleships only directly fought each other twice in the war and Japan lost both fights badly. If you want a real example of admirals being thrust in to new roles look at Spruance and Fletcher. Fletcher had no experience with air operations but was given command of the Yorktown carrier task force over other officers with more experience. Spruance was the escort commander of Halsey's carrier task force and had to take over command for the Battle of Midway when Halsey was hospitalized. Both admirals performed superbly and Spruance is widely regarded as one of the best fleet commanders of WWII.

[@bkjeong4302]

If you actually study the Decisive Battle doctrine you will find that the Japanese intended to use their carriers to sink enemy carriers rather than as bait; the problem the Japanese had was not that they failed to realize their battleships were vulnerable to aircraft, but that they failed to realize that their own carriers also also posed also posed a serious threat to the enemy battleline. And by the time of the Marianas Turkey Shoot there really was no expectation of a capital ship surface engagement in the IJN. And given that literally everyone built and tried tried to use pointless battleships in WWII (in some cases even after Japan gave up on that idea post-Midway), I have to argue that nobody really understood what naval airpower meant in WWII until after they wasted vast amounts of resources. As for Spruance, his actions during Operation Hailstone makes me question if he actually recognized carriers as being superior to battleships. I mean, calling off the carrier attacks just when they are about to sink everything simply so the Iowas could say they fired at two destroyers and a damaged training vessel? And having one of the destroyers escape as a result of that?

[@joweeqc98]

Im over here feeling giddy knowing that Uncle Drach referenced space battleship yamato 2199!!

[@williameddlewis4625]

ladies and gentlemen we now require a roman "sail closer i want to hit them with my sword" meme

[@sarjim4381]

Hooray. This time the episode hit on time change Sunday. That means it now "only" 3:45 instead of 4:45. I feel so much more awake than I would have without that extra hour. :-)

[@oldschoolking100]

Does HMS Warspite technically count as been sunk because she broke free and beached than sunk instead of been salvaged.

[@joshuapeters5763]

Thanks for the consistently great content. One favor to ask: when you reference one of your previous videos, would you be willing to drop a link to it?

[@robv1139]

I love the way Drac can combine his excellent technical and historical knowledge together with a bit of fantasy role play.! (time travel machine etc) Nothing better than being able to let your hair down a just be daft for a while :)

[@xgford94]

So Markó Ramius was right about Halsey (Tom Clancy did his homework )

[@seafodder6129]

"I know this book. Your conclusions were all wrong, Ryan. Halsey acted stupidly."

[@AtomicBabel]

@@seafodder6129 turns toward in coming torpedo

[@seafodder6129]

@@AtomicBabel "Combat tactics, Mr. Ryan..." My wife has to have the TV on to go to sleep. When nothing else was on, she'd fire up The Hunt for Red October (could be worse, it could have been Fried Green Tomatoes or something like that). She'd fall asleep and I'd end up watching the whole move again. I think I've got the vast majority of the script memorized... :)

[@davemacnicol8404]

Lol 151.39 "The French may have stuck in the fight. . Or. " Hahahahahah I'm so dead I can't...that is comedic perfection. 😭

[@briancox2721]

Iowa arms and armor: showing why quantity has a quality all of its own.

[@Depipro]

The answer to the first question, especially the part about tool accuracy, reminds me of what Anton Sipman wrote about Dutch millwrights. Windmills and sailing ships have in common that they involve lots of wood in all shapes and sizes and intricate connections between the pieces to make a tight fit that can stand some jostling (either by a combination of wind and sea or a combination of wind and the motions of its own machinery). Millwrights would cut their heavy beams exclusively using axes rather than saws, since they had learned to achieve more precision that way. Which I think is worth visualizing and letting sink in for a bit.

[@tommasobalconi]

Is it just me or while Drach was happily laughing about the MTB boat someone else also imagined Jingles at the helm of the ship, pronouncing with an evil laugh: 'Ramming speed!' ? :'D

[@ditzydoo4378]

The Drydock at 1 hour 51 minutes, hmmmm…. now I know were that "Daylight Saving" hour went... 0_o great use of time Drachinifel, aces... >_

[@malusignatius]

I'd love to see the wargame results for that US/UK vs Japan 'Decisive battle'.

[@themadhammer3305]

Yeah as a 'battle of texel' style special episode it would be a really interesting thing to see a potential outcome for

[@USS_ESSEX_CV-9]

It would be interesting my money's on the Americans and British winning. Also my favourite line in this entire video is Will Hermes will be there for moral support

[@TheAwnman]

With saving ships, I would pick among the others you mentioned USS Monitor, given that she not only helped pioneer various technologies but also because she is in that very exclusive club along with Dreadnaught and Destructor of giving her name not to a class but an entire type of ship

[@jimtalbott9535]

Honorable mention for your "magical naval museum" suggestion: Sercouf! How can you NOT love a submarine with Big Guns??

[@billbrockman779]

Didn’t the officers of an age of sail ship effect - for good or bad - sailing characteristics? They could move ballast and stores to affect the trim; change the masts’s rake angle to some extent; learn how to set sails for best speed, etc.

[@Drachinifel]

Very true, but as those could be changed by swapping crew or commanders, I wanted to focus on things that, once built, were difficult or impossible to change.

[@TheCsel]

A bit of related trivia, at the Royal Ontario Museum, there are many old ship models. Quite a few of these models were made by French POWs during Napoleonic era. They were able to make these models to sell as gifts while waiting in prison.

[@bobhealy3519]

There is only 1 rope on a ship. It is the one you ring it's bell. Everything else is a line,sheet,halyard,spring etc.

[@MrFixIt74Fun]

Why are anchors not required on modern war ships any more? What was the weight ratio of the anchors, chain, and lifting equipment to the total weight of the ship??

[@samstewart4807]

Hi @ 128.00 I have never heard the reason for his choice- thanks- Has anyone ever posted all the communications between the Graf Spee and German HQ??

[@timberwolf1575]

The sheer mass of the armor in the Iowa turrets probably improved the harmonics of the turrets during firing. That would be an interesting aspect of turret design for a deeper dive.

[@vasilysz3004]

I don't know if it's in the guide list yet, but i suggest checking the destroyer "Adrias". It's quite interesting since as far as I know, it sailed from Crete to the port of Alexandria with her bow missing by an explosion.

[@Benepene]

my Top ten ships:1 Graf Spee cause why not 2 fuso since its just funny looking and ive always wanted to have a skyscraper 3 either gneisenau or Scharnhorst 4 indefatigable 5 HMS Captain cause you need to show the future how not to design a ship 6 one of those floaty russia n UFOs 7 Roma because she was a real beauty 8 Kleopatras flagship 9 shinano 10 either hood or bismarck

[@juliet_whiskey6625]

I would think HMS Implacable would be one to recover. She deserved so much better than being scuttled in the name of budget cuts after having survived for well over a century

[@murderouskitten2577]

A general question to anyone - why is Litorio class is sometimes called vitorio venetoclass?

[@glennricafrente58]

They were laid down the same day, so by convention, either ship could have been used as the class name.

[@murderouskitten2577]

@@glennricafrente58 and Italienas could not pick one ? ..... :( This actually made funy situation , when i was arguing with my friend about Roma - i said Litorio , he said Vitorio Veneto class . at that moment both of us ( university history students at the time ) where looking at each other as stupid :D

[@glennricafrente58]

@@murderouskitten2577 Hey, ask them, not me. :-)

[@murderouskitten2577]

@@glennricafrente58 aorry , still thanks for info :)

[@sophiepaterson7444]

Of the ships I'd love to see brought back, I'd have a similar list, but I'd love to add one of Admiral Zheng He's huge wooden ships, and because I have an affinity with Hungary, I'd love to have the St Istvan, Teggethoff battleship.

[@jamesl6365]

Don't think those would qualify, as I believe they were broken up, not sunk.

[@sophiepaterson7444]

@@jamesl6365 yeah. Zheng He's fleet was burned so I guess that's out, but I did think St Istvan was sunk.

[@karldzioba6963]

Hey Drach- Any chance you can do a mini-drydock with a gallery of the various contest submissions? (Maybe the winners, honorable mentions, most ridiculous, etc, etc...) I mean, one can design a warship using math... but putting it into an elegant (or prickly) form is part of the art!

[@Locochris1956]

Admiral King told the US navy to not provide any assistance to he Royal Navy when we had a significant fleet in the Pacific fortunately he was ignored, he also removed the LST's after D day leaving nothing left to bring tanks , King hated the Royal Navy more than the Japanese or the Germans .

[@drewdederer8965]

The whole Singapore Scenario reminds me of the old Avlon Hill "Victory in the Pacific". While the game warped history in Japan's favor in the name of being balanced and interesting, one thing was noted. If the Japanese got TOO adventurous Singapore wouldn't fall on turn 2. With the Royal Navy Reinforcements (normally mostly trapped in the Indian Ocean), now based in Singapore, the Japanese Strategic position was generally untenable since they couldn't form a "barrier" to block off home waters.

[@johngregory4801]

Even Marko Ramius knew that Halsey acted stupidly.

[@whiskeytangosierra6]

Nice to see someone else is rather under-impressed with Halsey. I would rate him as a bad Admiral, very similar to Beatty. Heretic that I am, I would also rate MacArthur and Montgomery as bad Generals. North Sea in various shades of grey. Similar to watch grass grow.

[@johnshepherd8687]

You are a bit late on Monty. Corelli Barnett debunked the Montgomery myth 50+ years ago. MacArthur was an inconsistent mix of brilliant and dull.

[@whiskeytangosierra6]

@@johnshepherd8687 I debunked Monty myself around 1969, to my satisfaction at least, although I learned quickly not to discuss this with such academics as "history" teachers. My research has shown me that most, if not all, of Dugout Dougs' brilliance was confined to stealing the ideas of others and manipulating the data to show it as his ideas. His greatest theft was managing to convince most everyone that Chester Nimitz's Island Hopping strategy was really MacArthur's. It was not, he was firmly locked in the WWI mindset of take each and every inch (island) back in a continuous line. Then, he noticed that FDR liked Chesters' idea better and magically launched the MacArthur Island Hopping Campaign strategy myth. If he possessed genius, it was at self promotion. Just my $.02.

[@johnshepherd8687]

Barnett published in 1961. He beat you by 8 years.

[@nnoddy8161]

Did the RN ever consider modernising the Revenge Class battleships to oil in order to improve their speed (and overall usefulness)?

[@JevansUK]

Though designed to use coal they went over to oil during construction. You would ideally convert them to small tube boilers and new turbines but the same problem remains they're smaller ships so there's less space for AA batteries and importantly less displacement to add RADAR and HACS. If you have the funds to modernise an R class then you should have already modernised Repulse, Hood, Barham and Malaya. At best you could them back to a speed of 23 knots but they're unlikely to much more useful than IRL

[@alecblunden8615]

@@JevansUK The R class were far from useless. They were better armoured than the QEs and constantly employed throughout the war. They were also 2 knots faster than the US standard battleships.

[@JevansUK]

I didn't say they were useless just that it would have been very hard to make them more use. They may have been designed for 23 knots but none ever made more than 22 and bulging them cost at least half a knot. Nothing is going give them the speed to catch a panzerschiff or a scharnhorst or the strength to take on a Bismarck.

[@alecblunden8615]

@@JevansUK I suspect they were quite strong enough to take on Bismark or Tirpitz, which were flawed to say the least- and certainly the lesser ships of the Kriegsmarine in terms of fighting power and protection. However, the German ships could certainly dictate the terms of engagement by virtue of their speed. However, that is largely the point. No German ship or historical combination would challenge an R class with any assurance of victory, so convoys etc under their care were safe from surface raiders. They all had a full and useful war, serving in critical sectors like the Med and Indian Ocean. Their speed may have been capable of being boosted by new boilers and machinery, but the priority was always escorts, escorts and more escorts. The possible is always the enemy of the desirable. Theorising serves no useful purpose. The R's did their job.

[@Xander_Zimmermann]

Gorshkov has 4 orders of the red banner, what did he do to get them? ( 19:35 )

[@Odin029]

"otherwise your ship would roll over and sink... which is apparently a bad thing"

[@kemarisite]

Ah yes, the gallant young men in light forces, who live fast, fight hard, and die in heaps.

[@michaelkaylor6770]

by 1 hour and 30 minutes I am thinking, the Argentinians did jump in against the British... just 40 years late and without consulting the Axis-ish powers!

[@athopi]

I would have put a Tegetthoff on the museum ship list. And maybe Derflinger. I like the looks of both. The Hippers were quite eye-catching as well, but I'd use one for my yacht... : )

[@TurbineOutboard]

Could you review the only paddle wheel aircraft carrier the USS Sable?

[@TheSgruby]

Before the Punic War, the Roman Republic had a navy (an attack on Roman warships provoked the intervention of Pyrrhus in Italy), also cities allied with the Roma, Naples, Tarentum, etc., had maritime traditions.

[@whyjnot420]

"Technical considerations aside." Doesn't this mean we could travel into the future of an alternate timeline and get BBY-01 and then have 2 Yamatos?

[@LazyTestudines]

That would make you an actual god. Though I wonder if repair due to rust is counted in technical issues aside.

[@RonJohn63]

01:24:24 Wasn't the Argentine Navy predisposed towards the English, while it was only the *Army* that leaned towards Germany?

[@sarjim4381]

Yes, the Argentine Navy always patterned itself on the RN, trained with the RN, and had a modern fleet heavily tilted toward British ships. This split in tactics between how Germany or Britain would conduct a battle was one of the predisposing causes for the loss of the Falklands War.

[@RonJohn63]

@@sarjim4381 the last sentence confuses me. Did the Argentine Army & Navy still follow old doctrines in 1982?

[@sarjim4381]

@@RonJohn63 Not old doctrines, just their philosophy of organization, equipment, and battle tactics. The army and navy pretty much ran their own shows with almost no coordination, and the air force didn't much care for either of them. For example, the navy had more of a traditional RN style of conservatism when it came to battles while the army was more of a blitzkrieg force. Put those two different ideas together along with an almost complete lack of coordination and cooperation and you stand a good chance of losing a war.

[@alecblunden8615]

@@sarjim4381 I would love to hear more about this supposed "conservatism" of the RN - strikes me as somewhat inconsistent with its aggressive tactics and technological innovation.

[@sarjim4381]

@@alecblunden8615 RN conservatism has nothing to do with the occasional aggressive commander. RN technological innovations are now few and far between. Read www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/the-decline-of-the-royal-navy for a perspective on the modern RN and journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0968344515580492 for some perspective on turn of the 20th century problems and issues.

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

I'm a little surprised that HMS _Royal Oak_ didn't make the cut for Drach's Time-Travelling Sunken Ship Museum, given your personal history regarding said ship.

[@alanmcclenaghan7548]

Drach, how can you not select Yorktown (CV-5)? Also, HMS Barham would also give you an example of the Queen Elizabeth class!

[@michaelkaylor6770]

@1:40:00, just imagine the British hop scotching up the coast through China and the Combined US, AUS, NZ, Dutch Island hopping as they did! Churchill to Roosevelt "Dinner on Kyosho?"

[@s.31.l50]

Definitely would bring back Kamchatka personally 😂😂😂😂😂

[@bkjeong4302]

WHY?

[@SuperRockyMountainSRM]

You have done a capital effort in your documentaries. Outstanding information and wide time line of both wars...including modern and future designe. How ever I found your channel while researching the submarine my grandfather served on. USS Scaberfish in the pacific theater. Solomon island, Gilbert islands, Marshall islands and the sea of Japan and so much more. I was wondering if you could shed more light on the boat or class. It is silent service for a reason, obtaining info is limited to novice researcher like myself. Could you do another video on the subject. Specifically on the USS PLUNGER and USS SCSABERFISH? Thank and look forward to future videos. You may contact me for more documetaion and images. Best regards and god bless thoselost and at sea.

[@joeblow9657]

1:05:19 I didn't know Drach was really Detective Sergent Drachinifel!!!

[@johnfisher9692]

One question I have to ask is: Looking at the picture of the Russian Admiral, why is his uniform so heavily loaded with medals that it appears to almost be armour plate and weigh so much it would take several people to help him put it on. Surely he cannot have been in that many battles to have earned that many medals and awards.

[@Warriorcat49]

For a good idea on just how different vaguely similar-looking wooden ships can be, take a look at channels like Acorn to Arabella or Sampson Boat Co. The absolute range of options they've had to ponder in their endeavors to rebuild/repair their respective boats is, quite frankly, ridiculous. And they even have good, modern plans for their boats.

[@sarjim4381]

Assuming I really one the big money, I'd reproduce a somewhat smaller version of the USS Erie. She was handsome with her raked bow and cruiser stern, yet still modern looking. Much of the internal space was devoted to large admiral's and captain's cabin as well as staterooms for visiting dignitaries to complement her role as a floating embassy. That would make her a comfortable vessel for almost any reasonable size party. She was also built to allow canvas to be spread over the entire length of the ship, a necessity for comfort while sailing the tropics, and that's sure where I'd be. Maybe reduce her to about 200 feet from 327 feet since the need for armament is, unfortunately, obviated, but still have space astern for a helicopter deck and hanger. What kind of proper megayacht today doesn't have a helicopter?

[@gamarus0kragh]

My choice would be a 3rd rate from the Napoleonic era. I would have to incorporate hidden modern machinery and tech to free up space for comfort for a much smaller crew. I wonder what nation might let me carry sufficient black powder to give a credible salute/broadside..?

[@xJavelin1]

Damn, I thought you were going to make your last pick the Kamchatka just for the hell of it.

[@bkjeong4302]

Too terrible to be worth bringing back.