The Drydock - Episode 287 (Part 2)

00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:42 - Various questions about the Battle of Samar
00:09:20 - How were the Hawkins class conducting firecontrol?
00:10:56 - Would you recommend any books for learning about the service histories of USS Albacore and USS England?
00:12:43 - Given that it sometimes took many salvos to hit a target, how many shots did it 'usually' take to hit a test target during armor penetration testing, and was anything special done to improve accuracy during these tests like reduced range, or sighting equipment?
00:17:56 - Why did USS Worcester (CL-144) go back to twin turret?
00:21:42 - Why no mizzen course sail?
00:26:58 - How does a torpedo circular run happen?
00:33:09 - Is the 'Naval Chronicle' referred to in "Six Frigates" by Ian W. Toll, the ancestor of, or similar to the "U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings"?
00:37:14 - Coast defence infrastructure?
00:45:35 - What was the mechanical accuracy of (good) battleship guns?
00:48:53 - How would you design the ultimate US fleet oiler for the Pacific in the run up to WW2 (assuming you have some degree of foresight and full financial/political support)?
00:57:11 - How were coal ashes disposed off on WWI capital ships?
00:59:40 - When were the first and last ram equipped ships commissioned by a major navy and by whom?
01:01:32 - It’s well known that USS Nevada was able to get underway relatively quickly during the attack on Pearl Harbor, but how much of a feat was this for her crew?
01:06:12 - Godzilla Minus One minesweeping?
01:09:14 - Name vs Alphanumeric designation dividing line for ships?
01:13:14 - What in your opinion is the most interesting equipment or room on a ship that seems to be tied to their nations culture?
01:14:57 - Given the repairs, overhauls, refits, etc that a wooden ship would go through during that time, how much of the original ship would remain after 80 years of service?
01:22:26 - I've read Vincent O'Hara's Struggle for the Middle Sea & Six Victories. Can you recommend any more reading on the WWII Mediterranean Naval war or the Regia Marina?
01:25:08 - The development of the propulsion shafts on ships in the steam and steel era?
01:32:47 - How does centralised fire control for AA guns work?
01:40:02 - If Admiral Togo had not died in 1934, what impact would he have had on the IJN leading up to and into WW2?
01:43:10 - Given such evident advantages (especially in range and refuel time and ability) of oil over coal, what would an early conversion of either the High Seas or Grand Fleet have had on WWI? Is it enough to change the balance?
01:48:11 - The location and protection of the avgas storage tanks on the Yorktown class carriers?
01:54:42 - Anson's expedition?
01:59:35 - Western response to post-war Soviet battleships?
02:04:59 - Levels of classification post-1950?
02:13:48 - Industrial capacity of the USA in WW1 vs WW2?
02:18:26 - Did the Washington Naval Treaty limit sea plane tenders?
02:22:47 - Which service would have benefited more by having a snorkel available for subs by mid 1942: the USN or the RN?
02:25:23 - Any advantages to many smaller sails vs a few larger ones?
02:27:58 - Often the lessons of USS Lexington CV-2 are credited with fixing and changing US damage control practices after her loss, What lessons were learned, amd how did they save ships like Bunker Hill, Franklin, and Enterprise?
02:34:13 - Would it be proper to call a warship that burned coal to produce steam and run its engines (HMS Dreadnought for example) "steam powered" or "coal powered"?

[@Trek001]

I thought, Drach, that the last ram put into commission was HMS _Thunder Child_ which took out at least two if not three Martian Walkers

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

Hee-Hee; That was head cannon for me when I read the book. It makes sense that an old ram ship would be a channel crawler.

[@BestAnswer12549]

Imagine a HMS Thunder Child 2 with Martian technology!

[@gilgit6728]

Adult: See, if you read more literature you'll be able to laugh at jokes in the comments section of Drach's Dry Docks. Teen: What's a Drach and why does it need dry doc? Adult: Drach is a KZbin naval historian. He's so good that when other KZbin historians invite him on their show they have to force themselves to act naturally instead of like fanboys. Teen: Is he on TikTok? Adult: Ur... sure. He's the guy with all the dancing warships. #*@! kids today.

[@timwilliamanderson]

1:31:45 I’m surprised that the hollow shafts were not for another reason On automotive drivelines often they are hollow (unless you go to something very early like 1940s jeeps) this is because the hollow shaft saves you a bunch of weight which is both rotating mass which is bad, and also increases the critical speed of the shaft because it has less mass to cause the whip. Also, because of something we call the Radius diameter rule is basically the same thing as the square cube law. But for spinning metal shafts. The inside of the shaft really gives you very little strength compared to that outermost skin. If you do the math sometime look at the strength you get going From say 5/16 or 8 mm bolt to a 3/8 or 10 mm bolt. You will find that, even though you’ve only increased the diameter by a small amount, you have a lot more strength increase, which is because the amount of material you’re adding on the outside is held by the fact that it’s radius squared.

[@nathanbattles3958]

@@gilgit6728I see you have met my kids.

[@bjarkih1977]

When the question about whether it is the same ship is the same ship is the same ship one has to quote Terry Pratcjett: “This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good.” ― Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant

[@Shadooe]

haha or "reunion" rock bands.

[@wierdalien1]

Or Trigger's Broom

[@robertmcgann5881]

Or The Ship of Theseus especially when talking about naval vessels

[@Philip271828]

Or the Scone upon which Dwarf kings are crowned.

[@myparceltape1169]

Excellently well put, sounds rather like a few words from the eighteenth Earl of Huntingshire.

[@Eboreg2]

I was talking about the Gato-class Albacore. In completely unrelated news, I just ordered "Anti-Submarine Warrior in the Pacific" off of Walmart.

[@mbryson2899]

I'd also like to hear Uncle Drach address the _Gato_ class _USS Albacore._

[@scooterdescooter4018]

Takao did her best against Godzilla. unfortunately, she was in a scrap with GODZILLA. the fact she got as many salvos off as she did before Godzilla said "Ok, sod this, its plasma time." was pretty heroic.

[@Wolfeson28]

HMS Thunder Child vs. Godzilla. Place your bets.

[@UthurRytan]

@@Wolfeson28 Yukikaze won, so Thuunderchild probably would too

[@ottovonbismarck2443]

It's apparently a German tradition to classify torpedo BOATS as boats. The tradition was kept when torpedo boats became destroyers by the end of WW1. Since the Kriegsmarine was probably the closest to any imperial traditions, they still referred to the large German DDs as boats. And again, post WW2 German authors - usually veterans - kept it alive. Btw, the letter prefix on large German WW1 torpedo boats/destroyers tells you which shipyard built the thing: V Vulcan/Bremen & Stettin S Schichau/Elbing B Blohm&Voss/Hamburg G Germaniawerft/Kiel (IIRC this was either owned or run by Krupp) T Imperial Shipyard (owned by the navy/state)/Wilhelmshaven, the T really stood for Torpedo boat

[@michaelkovacic2608]

Another interesting thing in this context is that in a German navy, a ship is only called a ship if it has a first officer. The XO of a "boat" is referred to as 1st watch officer.

[@bholdr----0]

Y'know, that reminds me- did the name/class/title 'Torpedo Boat Destroyer', which, as far as I know, evolved into the more modern designation 'Destroyer' originally mean 'A ship intended to 'destroy' torpedo boats, or, rather 'a boat primarily armed with torpedos' intended to destroy (other ships)?

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

@@bholdr----0 A torpedo boat destroyer was indeed originally intended to destroy torpedo boats. As they got larger over time it became possible to equip them with torpedoes as well as guns so they essentially became dual purpose, the torpedo boat destroyer could also act as a torpedo boat, resulting over time in the name being shortened to destroyer.

[@bholdr----0]

@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 Yeah, that was what I thought... Thanks... But... the name can be a bit ambiguous (what's in a name? A ship hit by any other weapon would sink as sweet), especially as some nuance was often lost in translations from non-english language navies..., 'Attack', 'Patrol', etc, were added to the 'torpedo boat' designation ...and it is interesting how, in (proper) destroyers, torpedos were sometimes their primary weapons (or at least their most dangerous), and so on. Cheers!

[@bholdr----0]

@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 Vis: 'Torpedo Boat Destroyer': I'm reminded of a Homer Simpson quote: 'Beer, now there's a temporary solution.'. Depending on where one puts the emohasis, it can mean all sorts of different things (all of them appropriate to Homer!). 'Beer, now THERE is A temporary solution', 'Beer, NOW there's a temporary solution' 'Beer, now there's a TEMPORARY solution!, Etc...

[@markcolorado240]

Nevada's sortie at Pearl Harbor was under the command of Lt. Cmdr. Francis J. Thomas, who were he alive today might be dismayed that you demoted him to Ensign. It seems you are thinking of Ensign Joseph Taussig, who was indeed Officer of the Deck when the attack began and lost his leg during the attack. Taussig had earlier ordered the 2nd boiler to be lit and raised the alarm very quickly -- and unquestionably deserves great credit -- but he was soon replaced as officer in charge on the bridge by Lt. Cmdr. Francis, who nominally was the damage control officer. In any event, it seems clear that the helmsman, Chief Quartermaster Robert Sedberry, was the man who single-handedly took the Nevada away from its berth and steered down the channel. Francis realized that Sedberry could handle the ship and wisely refrained from micro-managing the situation.

[@Driver-ur9mf]

So many named persons and so much detail. I might tend to think you have a personal interest in that one.

[@markcolorado240]

@@Driver-ur9mf None. I just like things to be correct.

[@gagamba9198]

@@markcolorado240 Thank you for posting your first comment. After hearing of the account of Ensign Taussig, I wanted to learn more. Then I learned about Lt. Cmdr. Thomas, Chief Quartermaster Sedberry, Chief Boatswain Hill, and others. I mention Hill because at the height of the attack he led his line handling details to the quays, cast off the lines under fire, and then _swam back to the ship_ . Once aboard he began to let go the anchors when bomb blasts blew him overboard, killing him. Nevada wasn't going anywhere if it was still tied up. The US Navy's 'USS Nevada, Report of Pearl Harbor Attack' documents the events and the actions of its crew members very well.

[@Dave1982]

Drach, you got the pronunciation of “Worcester” right on your first try. That’s how it’s pronounced here. True story. When I was in 8th grade we took a class trip to Washington DC that included a tour of DS Barry. The sailor assigned to our group, upon learning we were from Massachusetts, asked if we were from Worcester, taking great care to pronounce it correctly. It seems he once made the mistake of pronouncing it “warchester” in front of a group from Worcester Public Schools, and they left a lasting impression when correcting him!

[@danasmith3288]

Ah, . . . I can only imagine . . .

[@j_taylor]

So many struggle with that. My favorite mispronunciation was "Worst Chester." It didn't help to tell people to say Worcestershire sauce and just stop early. Turns out, lots of Americans have never heard that word aloud. 😛 As you say, it's just like the English town.

[@adamemmrich283]

You mean Wooster

[@j_taylor]

@@adamemmrich283 I actually don't know how the city of Wooster, Ohio is pronounced. Does it rhyme with rooster?

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

The one attempt to build warships on a production line (literally) in the Kaiser War was Henry Ford's "Eagle Boats" (PE) which are remembered as a production disaster. "Ford's plan for building the ships was revolutionary. Establishing a new plant on the River Rouge on the outskirts of Detroit, he proposed to turn them out as factory products, using mass production techniques, and employing factory workers. He would then send the boats by the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence River to the Atlantic coast. However, Ford had little part in the design of the boats. Except for his insistence upon simple plans and the use of steam turbines, he contributed little of a fundamental nature to the design concept. First, Ford engineers built a full-scale pattern at the company's Highland Park facility, giving both the Ford team and the Naval officers an opportunity to correct flaws in the rough initial design and decide on the placement of all rivet holes in the craft, as well as allowing the carmaker's production experts the chance to compose specifications for the manufacturing and assembly processes. The assembly plant was completed in five months, and the first keel was laid in May 1918. The machinery and fittings were largely built at Ford's Highland Park plant in Detroit, although the new River Rouge plant, given impetus by the war, saw a good deal of the steel sheets and other parts formed and fabricated there in the A-Building, or fabricating building. At first, Ford believed that boats could be sent down a continuously moving assembly line like automobiles. The size of the craft made this too difficult, however, and a "step-by-step" movement was instituted on the 1,700-foot (520 m) line, entailing seven separate assembly areas, followed by the addition of a 200-foot (61 m) extension to the assembly facility, or B-Building, to support a pre-assembly stage. Unfortunately, the Eagles suffered from various issues due to Ford's institutional inexperience with shipbuilding: for instance, the Model T did not use electric arc welding, and the resulting workmanship on the Eagle boats was so poor that the superintending constructor requested that Ford workers do as little welding as possible on water-tight and oil-tight bulkheads. Additionally, the use of ladders instead of scaffolds caused major difficulties-the attempted bolting of plates, carried out by workers wielding short-handled wrenches on ladders meant that the bolters were unable to apply sufficient force to bring the plates together tightly.[4] Metal shavings between plates then made the riveters' task of pulling the plates together for a seal practically impossible. The first Eagle boat was launched on 11 July. The launching of these 200-foot (61 m) craft was a formidable operation. Not built on slipways from which they could slide into the water, the hulls moved slowly from the assembly line on enormous, tractor-drawn flatcars. They were then placed on a 225-foot (69 m) steel trestle alongside the water's edge which could be sunk 20 feet (6.1 m) into the water by hydraulic action. The plan was to fit the Eagles out with all the basic equipment of a warship-turbines, weaponry, wiring, etc.--after launch, but this quickly became a choke point due to the cramped spaces on the boats themselves, and violated Ford's own mass production ethos. The original expectation, set out in a contract between Ford and the Navy on 1 March 1918, was for delivery of 100 ships: "one by mid-July, ten by mid-August, twenty by mid-September, and twenty-five each month thereafter," or approximately one new Eagle boat completed each working day of the month. The first seven boats were not completed until the end of 1918, and succeeding boats were plagued by issues such as leaky fuel oil compartments. This state of affairs continued, even though the labor force reached 4,380 by July and later peaked at 8,000. The chief reasons were Ford's excessive initial optimism and the inexperience of labor and supervisory personnel in shipbuilding. Upon the signing of the Armistice in November 1918, the number under contract, previously raised from 100 to 112, was cut to 60. Of these, seven were commissioned in 1918, and the remaining 53 were commissioned in 1919.

[@dimasgirl2749]

"Schrodinger's Admiral." I love it.

[@donmeyering5367]

1:40:23 The coffee ALMOST came out my nose...

[@BleedingUranium]

Yay another Minus One question! Here's a handy list of all the ships (plus other military vehicles) which appear in the film: * Takao, Takao-class heavy cruiser * Yukikaze, Kagerou-class destroyer * Hibiki, Akatsuki-class destroyer * Yuukaze, Minekaze-class destroyer * Keyaki, Matsu-class destroyer * Ikuno, Ukuru-class frigate (named in novelization, written by the director himself) * Katashima, Sokuten-class minelayer * several unnamed No.13-class subchasers * unnamed No.101-class landing ship * USS Redfish, Balao-class submarine (depicted using the real damage report from USS Tang) * USS Lancaster (described as a destroyer, but in reality was a cargo ship) * unnamed Liberty-class cargo ship * A6M5a Reisen fighter * J7W1 Shinden interceptor * several Chi-To medium tanks

[@arkdeniz]

The dubbing over the original film of you talking at the Olympia’s ash system is comparable to the best of 1960s Italian cinema. Well done!

[@davidlewis9068]

Another very good Dry Dock and coffee morning here

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

Ref Pearl Harbor, one DD put to sea with three officers, all ensigns, her skipper and exec watching from a pier as her fantail disappeared around a bend in the channel. The acting skipper was a regular as he was naval academy grad and therefore was senior by date of commission to his two reservist shipmates, who became the acting exec/gunnery officer and the engineering officer. The "skipper" became the navigation/communication officer as well.

[@linnharamis1496]

Wow, A half million viewers! Amazing, but also amazing is The continuing excellence of the content you produce in abundance for this channel. Thank you and keep up the good work.👍

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

Don't worry, us Americans pronounce Worcester the same way you do! (speaking as an American born and raised in Worcester, Massachusetts)

[@kkupsky6321]

I love the dry dock drinking game. Drink every time Drach says *et cetera* You never lose.

[@gerardlabelle9626]

Growing up in Massachusetts in the 1970s - 80s, we pronounced Worcester, MA as “WISS-ter”. The “townies”, ie folks with strong Boston accents, called it “WISS-ta”.

[@bebo4807]

Forest Grove and Doherty. You are correct though I did not have that hideous accent.

[@AnimeSunglasses]

"Ah yah frahm Wusstah?"

[@73Trident]

Great DD as per usual. What I found the most interesting was the development of propulsion shafts. I had never thought of the screws pushing the the shafts into the ship. You learn something new everyday and that was the top of my list. Thanks Drach.

[@onenote6619]

Given that the gyroscope is a substantial lump of dense metal spinning at very high speeds, it has to be finely balanced and on low-friction bearings. Such constructs have limited tolerance for wear, shock and corrosion - and when they do fail, they tend to fail with extreme force. That also applies to the engines and propellers, but failure of the latter results in a dud torpedo, while failure of the former results in the controls doing something unexpected.

[@Vinnigecent]

In regards to advantages of a greater number of smaller sails I would like to mention that it is much easier to reduce sail (in higher winds) by furling a couple of small sails completely than by having to put reefs in all the bigger sails of a warship, if you want to maintain the balance of the ship (meaning preventing the vessel from veering up or downwind due to displacement of the point of effort of the rig forward or aft). As for your idea, sir Drach, that fewer bigger sails are more efficient, with all due respect I think that the skippers of, say Cutty Sark, Thermopylae and Flying Cloud might have other thoughts about this. Lets not forget that the different sails in a rig, even without overlapping, can improve airflow over one another, giving higher lift from the rig. I respect your work, and enjoy watching it, but every time you talk about sails I get the feeling you do not have much practical experience sailing boats (with sails, that is) nor really familiar with the different theories about generating lift in sail-rigs (Bernoulli, Vortex-theory and such. Just my thoughts, not wanting to offend anyone.🤥

[@frankbodenschatz173]

Thanks Drach for all you do! Again looking forward to meeting you in Sept!

[@kazeshi2]

as someone from Oregon, i very much appreciate the Oregon always being there.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

USS Albacore - 1950's version - wasn't a nuke. Despite her hull form, she was conventionally powered.

[@Drachinifel]

I was thinking of Nautilus! 😀

[@markhensel1843]

@@Drachinifel hope you got a chance to go aboard her on your visit here - she's been 'opened' a bit so not the same squeeze as being on an active sub but gives you some idea of what its' like.

[@rcwagon]

Regarding the Nevada - if of interest, a novel titled BATTLESHIP by Wallace Louis Exum is an interesting read including fleet operations before Pearl Harbor attack and one ship that gets underway. I understand it may have been titled BATTLEWAGON in a previous version. In 1983, he was my Company Officer at OCS (Officer Candidate School). His rank CWO4. He was not salty. He was crusty. He lied about his age to join the US Navy in WWII. When my field day assignment rotated to the area that included his office, I was astounded. Under glass on his desk were letters from Halsey, Spruance, and others arranged in order of stars. Most of them started out "Dear Wally, How are your wife and kids" or similar. I wish I had a camera but I wasn't willing to lift that glass. Many bad things could have happened.

[@danasmith3288]

navycaptain-therealnavy.blogspot.com/2018/06/cwo4-wallace-louis-exum-navigating-life.html?m=1 I added this in appreciation of what you noted. Definitely a person I will read more about. Thank you. (My Dad was born in '26. LST-654).

[@Shadooe]

Just an aside on the coal VS oil fueled fleets question. I glanced through a book a little while ago (Breaking Rockefeller by Peter Doran) and one of the chapters talks about how it took major eco-political backroom shenanigans to convince the Royal Navy to convert from coal to oil (pic of HMS Queen Elizabeth in there and everything). Supplying a fleet was a big thing for the established coal companies... so swooping in and taking that over was a major, major, coup for the rising Oil Barons.

[@jbepsilon]

For an in-depth look at this topic, see the PhD thesis by Warwick Michael Brown, The Royal Navy's fuel supplies 1898-1939 : the transition from coal to oil, kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/2932258/408161.pdf

[@jbepsilon]

For more details see the PhD thesis Warwick Michael Brown: THE ROYAL NAVY'S FUEL SUPPLIES, 1898-1939; THE TRANSITION FROM COAL TO OIL. (trying again as comments with links seem to be blocked, but if you google the above you can find the thesis online as PDF)

[@myparceltape1169]

Winston Churchill as First Lord of the Admiralty wanted the Royal Navy to change to oil fuel when the firm BP had stocks of oil in Persia.

[@williamerickson1238]

Sir, Minor correction. USS Albacore (SS/AGSS-569) was not nuclear powered. She was a diesel electric boat. Her claim to fame was her 'fish' shaped, (teardrop) hull form. The first of its kind and the model for U.S nuclear submarines from the SKIPJACK class forward. W. Erickson STSC(SS) Ret

[@johnshepherd9676]

The post war Albacore was not nuclear powered. It was the prototype for the 580 Class diesel-electric subs. It just so happened that nuclear power came along at the sane time and the Albacore hull was applied to the 580's fraternal twin the 585 class.

[@tombogan03884]

1:20:23 "ship of Theseus" I think it's more like an Army unit. Some of the components of that unit, the Regimental colors for example, but it is the same unit.

[@chrissouthgate4554]

Or units with in excess of 100% casualties but still in combat

[@bebo4807]

I grew up in Worcester in the US. We pronounce it correctly as Drach does. However since much of the US has problems speaking English and and have no idea how to pronounce Worcester or Leicester or similar names, it’s often pronounced as Wor-chester. ( See a certain battleship curator in Camden NJ )

[@spikespa5208]

As to damage control/fire fighting, have heard that it was realized early on in WWII that multiple layers of old paint was a real fire hazard. Other than chipping/scraping off many old thick layers and having one thin new layer, were other changes made, such as changing the chemistry of the paint used?

[@johnfisher9692]

Regarding the bit on Battleship guns, it would be interesting to have a Wednesday video on their construction and just how difficult it is to cut rifling into such massive weapons Perhaps describe just what rifling means beyond the bland "making the shell spin" and how the driving bands of a heavy naval shell engage the rifling.

[@Yandarval]

These will tide you over until Drach covers them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIu0q4uAbZqWmq8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqDaipeeo510m6s kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnrKeaqPoL9sZ9U

[@edwardloomis887]

Besides observation work for coastal artillery at New Bedford, Massachusetts, the Westport towers at 37:14 could have also monitored potential threats to Cape Cod Canal's southern entrance across Buzzards Bay. The federal government bought the canal after World War I U-boat activity so that ships wouldn't have to go all the way around Cape Cod.

[@jetdriver]

Re the ultimate WWII fleet oiler it was sort of built. The Sacramento Class fast combat support ships. As I suspect people are aware they used 1/2 an Iowa class engine plant to run at 26 knots and were a direct result of war experience supporting fast carrier fast forces. If your going to build them early you just lose the hangars and I’d equip them with a single 5” fore and aft just to keep a sub honest and 4-6 quad 40mm mounts for AA. But these are basically WWII technology ships and there is nothing about them that couldn’t have been done in WWII. An intersting side note. The existence of these ships had a lot to do with the Navy’s ability to reactivate the Iowas in the 80s and 90s. Because they were in operation that meant that supply chains, operational knowledge, support, training, were all there for these ships engineering plant. So you weren’t dependent on trying to stand all of this from scratch to get the ships underway. That this is all gone now is one of the big reasons why activating them again would be a nearly insurmountable challenge today.

[@mbryson2899]

Uncle Drach, I would _very much_ enjoy you talking about the naval scenes in "Godzilla -1."

[@marklamoreaux6932]

On the "Coastal Defense Infrastructure" section, apparently Scapa Flow had a similar system of remote-detonated mines and underwater hydrophones, as early as World War I, which was successful in sinking UB-116 in October 1918 (per Robert Massie's "Castles of Steel"). This system was one of the reasons why the British were overconfident in WW2 and Prien was able to sneak U-47 in by a different route.

[@TheThunderChilde]

Thanks!

[@robertmcgann5881]

(Coast defence infrastructure) Military capability planning documents would be classified/restricted because while such actions like those you mentioned never occurred, the potential exists that a hostile agency could derive other classified information from the documents. Now why some of the WW2 documents are remaining as classified is hard to say unless there are some other ongoing design efforts to employ nuclear weapons from surface ships.

[@spikespa5208]

Could be possible that an updated system like SOSUS exists now, closer in. And like all sonar info, the Navy ain't gonna say s___.

[@GrahamWKidd]

As always, Saturday Night and everything is alright. 1 x closer to 300 ...

[@Trek001]

Will the 300th be a Patreon drydock? If so, I could see a few questions about HMS Spartan

[@Perfusionist01]

re: Soviet Battleships post WW2. No, the USN wouldn't bother with BB65 and 66 onwards. The actions against Yamato and Musashi showed that big ships without air cover were just big targets. The Soviet threat might have prevented cancellation of the USS United States and/or building more CVB types. The real arms race would be between the fly boys and the submariners to see who got them first! The British might have kept a couple more fleet carriers in commission longer. Both Britain and the US might have been looking at the newer generations of attack aircraft that were canceled by the end of the war. In the 1940s into the 50s the USSR wasn't operating a "blue water" navy. They might have used a BB for political showmanship, but not much else. The Soviet battleship crews would be operating under the saying "we have found the American fleet, Good Bye Motherland!"

[@user-hw1qo2mu9e]

Thanks Drach.

[@davidmeek8017]

Aloha; well done sir!

[@robertthweatt1900]

What did USN use for inert gas? Oil tankers use boiler exhaust through a water (hookah) seal, monitored to ensure less than 8% oxygen ( it took two days to inert the empty cargo tanks on the VLCC I was on).

[@quietman1972]

Regarding classification, at least in the case of intelligence gathering, please keep in mind that some things remain classified because the source/ collection method is still alive/ viable/ in use. Even redacting documents can't always solve this issue. If pierce of information A could ONLY have come from office B, and office B only has 6 people,1 phone line and a fully isolated computer system, but your opposition has it... Not that things DON'T remain classified for no good reason, but information being absurdly obsolete isn't always the only factor.

[@indplt1595]

The closest U.S. fast carriers to Samar on 25 October 1944 were TG 38.1... "At 0940, in response to Kinkaid’s calls for help, Rear Admiral John McCain (Task Group 38.1) re-directed a carrier air strike being prepared for launch and intended for Ozawa’s carriers to head toward Samar instead. Halsey confirmed the change at 1000. The result was one of the longest carrier strikes of the war. At 1030, Hancock, Hornet, and Wasp commenced launching a 98-plane strike that would fly an extreme range of 330 miles to attack Kurita’s force as it was returning to San Bernardino Strait. The strike hit battleship Yamato with two bombs with minimal damage, straddled battleships Haruna and Kongo with multiple near misses and then eventually hitting Kongo, hit the already critically damaged heavy cruiser Suzuya, and strafed every ship in Kurita’s force. However, only Suzuya was unable to make a getaway. McCain’s carriers had to race at high speed to close the gap so that the planes could get back to the ships before they ran out of fuel. About a dozen U.S. aircraft were shot down or forced to ditch. Although the results were meager compared to the cost, this was truly an epic mission." www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-038/h-038-2.html ...which oddly wasn't included by many historians in quite a few orders of battle concerning the Battle of Leyte Gulf, despite the fact that McCain's task group was by far the most powerful carrier force in the Third Fleet, consisting of the three aforementioned Essex-class fleet carriers accompanied by the light carriers Cowpens and Monterey. More oddly, even official U.S. Navy sources often describe John S. McCain as a rear admiral, despite the fact he had been promoted to the rank of vice admiral more than a year prior to the events off Samar. But perhaps this was understandable, as task group commanders up to this point had been uniformly commanded by two-star flag officers (i.e., commanded by rear admirals; the one-star rank of Rear Admiral lower half not being created until 1985). But even more strangely, this meant McCain outranked Vice Admiral Mitscher, as the TF 38 commander had been promoted to three-star rank almost six months after McCain. The answer that McCain's carriers were the closest Third Fleet units to Taffy 3 is obvious when one consider TG 38.1 was the first fast carrier strike to hit Kurita after his flagship Yamato had sunk USS Gambier Bay and USS Johnston, but Third Fleet was decidedly not the closest potent U.S. carrier striking force to Kurita's warships: "The contributions of the aircraft from the six escort carriers of Taffy 2 (Task Unit 77.4.2, commanded by Rear Admiral Felix B. Stump) are often overlooked in accounts of the battle. With more time to re-arm with torpedoes than Taffy 3, Taffy 2’s aircraft inflicted much of the severe damage on Kurita’s force and was a significant part of the reason why he turned away. Planes from Natoma Bay (CVE-62), Manila Bay (CVE-61), Marcus Island (CVE-77), Kadashan Bay (CVE-76), Savo Island (CVE-78), and Ommaney Bay (CVE-79) conducted multiple attacks on Kurita’s force and deserve a significant share of the credit for leaving heavy cruisers Chokai, Chikuma, and Suzuya in sinking condition, and damaging heavy cruisers Tone and Haguro." www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-038/h-038-2.html Often lost in the narratives of the Battle off Samar was the fact that Taffys 2 and 3 MAULED Kurita's cruisers, winning a decisive tactical as well as strategic victory. The eighteen escort carriers in TG 77.4 under Rear Admiral Thomas L. Sprague's command had more than 400 aircraft embarked, with more than 200 of those consisting of Avenger torpedo bombers that were just as deadly as TF 38's TBFs once the CVEs had rearmed their bombers with Mark 13 torpedoes in place of the depth charges and land-attack munitions the Avengers were hauling when Kurita sailed over the horizon. Twelve of Sprague's CVEs were untouched, havung not been engaged by Kurita’s guns and torpedoes, and four more from Taffy 3 were still afloat...plus McCain's five fast carriers were clearly in range, embarking over 350 more angry American aircraft. Then there was the matter of Halsey himself, aboard his flagship USS New Jersey: "As Halsey expected, the subset of TF 34, designated TG 34.5 under Rear Admiral Oscar C. Badger II and consisting of the two fastest battleships (Iowa and New Jersey), three cruisers, and eight destroyers did not reach San Bernardino Strait before Kurita had already entered it westbound. The U.S. ships were ordered not to pursue through the strait for fear it had been mined. They did catch the destroyer Nowaki, which had stayed behind to rescue survivors of the heavy cruiser Chikuma; Nowaki was sunk with her entire crew and the survivors of Chikuma, a total of about 1,400 men." www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-038/h-038-2.html TF 34, like TF 38, was divided into task groups once activated. TG 34.5, with USS New Jersey in the lead, was speed constrained, but only by the 32.5-knot maximum of the Cleveland-class cruisers Biloxi, Miami and Vincennes (TG 34.5's escorts were CruDiv 14 and DesRon 52). The U.S. was also out for blood after Halsey realized Ozawa had duped him, as in addition to Nowaki the carrier Chiyoda was lost with all hands (1470 dead) despite being sunk by the gunfire from four U.S. cruisers escorted by nine destroyers. Kurita claimed to Jiro Ooka in the 1970s that he turned away because he did not believe in throwing away more Japanese lives in a futile conflict. This often was and continues to be interpreted as Kurita believed the war was already lost...however might the events of 25 October 1944 demonstrate that the airstrikes from Stump's TG 77.4.2 made it clear to Kurita that advancing further into the Leyte Gulf was suicidal against American air supremecy, cemented by McCain's TG 38.1 strike and Halsey's TG 34.5 sinking Nowaki?

[@wesleyfoster1967]

notification,set to ALL received , subscribed, given 👍, Audio, Video is Good.

[@jackgee3200]

FCS for AA. The USN centralised 5" gun system operated very similarly for surface & AA except mostly for the '3D' ballistics calculation in the Mk1 'computer'. OTOH, the later WWII localised director FC for 20/40mm & 5in AA against closer-in threats used a different principle - 'relative rate' sighting for continuous lead-computation.

[@DaremoKamen]

Torpedo protection for fleet oilers: Could you arrange some of the oil tanks and passage ways to serve as tds? So that you sacrifice some of the oil you are carrying to save the ship in the event of a hit without sacrificing much carrying capacity or tonnage if there isn't any hits.

[@philiphumphrey1548]

On the sailing ship, putting an extra square at the bottom of the mizzen mast would also mess up the function of the gaff rigged (fore and aft) sail on the same mast. A gaff rigged sail is much better than a square sale for sailing against the wind and much easier to change tack with going into the wind. Also it could help with steering. Letting it fully out to nearly 90 degrees would help the ship to bear away from the wind, pulling it tight to a much smaller angle would cause the ship to turn into the wind.

[@spikespa5208]

Noticed in the painting of Chesapeake, the studding sails are set only on the port side. For avoiding the same wind shadowing effect on the starboard side when having the wind over the port quarter?

[@davidvik1451]

Ultimate Oiler: The WW2 Cimarron and Ashtabula class oilers shared the same hull , both having a 146000 bbl capacity. They were both twin screw geared steam turbine powered with the Cimarrons having around 13000 hp for a top speed of 18 kts , while the Ashtabulas with 30000 hp had a top speed of 18.3 kts, only a .3 kt gain. The USN in WW2 operated Service Squadrons or SERVRONS for the fleet replenishment. The SERVRONS operated independently with their on escorts, and did not run with the fleet, but rendezvoused at a predetermined "safer" location. During WW2 the USN lost only five oilers, all to enemy action in the Pacific.

[@alt5494]

On oiler question would be interesting to up size a Alaska hull with minimal super structure & armor. A oiler cruising above 35 knots would be difficult to find or catch.

[@bartonstano9327]

Drachinifel please do a review of Godzillia Minus One from a naval viewpoint!

[@TheDude-ko8to]

On the Ship of Theseus problem, It is still the same ship, unless someone else has the pieces that were replaced and makes the ship again.

[@uristmcary]

Was there ever any attempt at outfitting a ship with flash hiders or some sort of compensating muzzle device? Muzzle brakes for land based artillery were contemporaneous with the period the channel covers, though ships of the same period never bothered with such things. Supposedly this is because recoil wasn't as big an issue for naval guns, but wouldn't other benefits (hiding muzzle flashes and making it safer for crew to run around on deck) encourage some sort of investigations of naval muzzle devices? Was it simply outside everyone's headspace at the time?

[@leotoro51]

I don't care about this picture, or that music ect. What I like to see is simple text line under each picture You show on the screen. I presume You are an expect that recognize each ship / place / gun / piece of equipment etc. And I do know that there are people that have that knowledge too. But that's 1 % of people that watch / listen to Your channel, so If You don't mind could You please put a few words of description to the shown picture, for us, the other 99 % of audience ? And by the Merlins Bird - they can even be pink colour. That's a think I like to change when You achieve those 500k souls gathered for the content You provide. Gratz mate ! and Thank You.

[@felonyx5123]

People in and around Worcester, MA pronounce it more or less the British way, (thick Boston accents turning it into "Woostah" aside) that goes for most but not all places named after British places in New England. People from the rest of the country it's anyone's guess.

[@gerardlabelle9626]

Regarding the “ship of Theseus” discussion, and the expectation that a ship’s masts, decks, exterior planking would probably need replacement eventually. Buildings are like that. You expect your house roof to need major maintenance after a few decades, after bearing the brunt of the weather.

[@johnshepherd9676]

As losses mounted in mid war the US Navy did consider incorporating a snorkel into new production but concluded it would interfere with output and the losses were still acceptable. We know what a US Navy snorkel equipped submarine would like from both the GUPPY and fleet snorkel mods. They were not going to jury rig a snorkel, they were going to incorporate it into the air induction system via a mast on the sail/conning tower

[@acidtreat101]

I'd love to see a video on Godzilla minus one! One thing that seemed to really stand out to me is just how CLOSE Takao was when she opened fire on Godzilla. Seemed WAY too close. But otherwise it was an amazing scene.

[@davidvik1451]

US industrial capacity WW1: By the armistice in 1918, 323 Ferris type wooden cargo vessels had been completed in yards throughout country, and the fifty way Hog Island ship yard (the largest in the world) had completed 122 ugly, but well built steal "Hog Islanders" . Had the war gone on for another year these ships would have made a significant contribution, but as it was non of them saw WW1 service. Several of the Hog Islanders went on to serve in WW2, but many were sold to shipping companies and others scrapped in the ways. I frequently drive by the partially complete remains of a Ferris Steamer, that was launched to clear the ways after contracts were canceled, now beached in Knappton Cove on the north bank of the Columbia River with nature slowly reclaiming it. I've seen a picture of several of this type of ships anchored in a row in Lake Union, Seattle WA titled "Wilson's Wood Row"! i

[@DubGathoni]

Question: what was the limit of overage on tonnage in the Wahington Naval Treaty? For example, could I say "design" a 35000-ton battleship or a 10000-ton curser and go well we designed a X tonnage ship and having built it ended up with a Y tonnage ship where Y is significantly greater than X and get away with it?

[@bkjeong4302]

It's worth noting that one of Halsey's carriers (Hancock IIRC) turned around and managed to hit Centre Force during Kurita's flight back west with an air attack. Though obviously not all the fleet carriers would be able to go after Kurita as quickly, they might be able to get later chances to do so if Kurita keeps heading towards the landing zone.

[@tomdolan9761]

Wasn’t Hancock with a detached Task Group refueling to the east and hastily recalled?

[@craigfazekas3923]

Godzilla answers, eh ? So, concerning his son, Godzuki, can you tell me.....🙄 Man, just when I thought the Star Trek/Star Wars/dorks contingent was laying low lately. Just sayin', it draws out my inner snarkiness- apologies in advance.... 🚬😎👍

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

Dork here. Apology accepted.

[@MrMont-ue8kh]

Wirth regard to the classification of Ultra... it was my understanding that the British gave their former colonies the Enigma machines, telling them that they were unbreakable code machines, full-well knowing that that would enable them to read their communications. Naturally, they therefore kept Ultra classified. When F.W. Winterbotham published his book "The Ultra Secret" in the 70s, it was apparently quite an embarrassment.

[@stevehofer3482]

How far was oldendorf’s forces from the Leyte landing area when Taffy 1 was attacked by Kurita’s force. Even if the slow battleships couldn’t make it on time, maybe the cruisers snd destroyers could. Also, did Halsey or Lee consider separating the Iowa class ships from the North Carolina and South Dakota ships. The Iowas were six knots, over 20%, faster. Finally, it seems to me that even if Halsey s force was 500 miles away from the Samar battle, he could have launched a small air strike and order the pilots to land on any escort carrier that could take them or on Leyte.

[@bholdr----0]

Quick question- Did the designation/class/name 'Torpedo Boat Destroyer' (which, as far as I know, evolved into the modern 'Destroyer') originally mean 'A ship intended to 'destroy' torpedo boats', or, rather 'a boat primarily armed with torpedos' (intended to destroy other ships)? Or was it, maybe, just a fluid, perhaps colloquial term? I feel like that this is one of those things which is/ ought to be obvious, but I do not get for whatever reason. Cheers?

[@notshapedforsportivetricks2912]

As far as tbe last ram commissioned goes, did you leave out the Zumwalt because it's outside the channel's time range?

[@DaremoKamen]

Togo surviving into WW2: Pershing was still alive when the US entered WW2, in a nursing home I believe.

[@henryboyter3670]

On the last topic, we use diesel/electric for locomotives, so why not coal/steam and oil/steam for ships, other than hard headedness.

[@thevictoryoverhimself7298]

American pronunciation of “Worcester” to answer your question is radically different, some would say “wrong” Wus-Tes-shure (my personal pronunciation I have what’s called a “Mid Atlantic” dialect/accent which is considered to be very generic. Common in newsreaders basically USA RP) Or even sometimes War-Test-Ter-Shure

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

I think you're conflicting the pronunciations of Worcester, "Wuster" the town, with Worcestershire, "Wustershire", the county in which it sits.

[@thevictoryoverhimself7298]

@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 I think you are right.

[@henrikoldcorn]

Drach: propeller shafts were figured out ages ago. The Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers: hold my beer.

[@CharlesStearman]

Regarding document classifications, I read recently that a number of documents in the UK Royal Archives that were previously open to the public have now been withdrawn from public access. The reason given is that a lot of the information relating to the Royal family is explicitly excluded from Freedom of Information requests, and therefore documents that may potentially contain such information *ought* to be kept secret.

[@paulholmes672]

Slight possible correction in pronunciation. I believe the USS Cabot (CVL-28) was pronounced with a hard T, as John Cabot was Italian (Genoese?) but exploring under the flag of England. One other curiosity question, with these marathon Dry Docks, when do you find time to eat among other things. 🙂

[@GrantWaller.-hf6jn]

The Nautilus sub at Midway was only declassified a few years ago

[@kidmohair8151]

2:30:47 at the time, asbestos was not yet widely known to be the carcinogen that we know it to be today. I am old enough to remember asbestos being handed to children in school to be used as a modelling substance in combination with some form of mucilage...

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

Given that the question asked about the Destroyer Escort USS England, which sank those subs around the time of the Battle of the Philippine Sea, the questioner probably meant the WW2 submarine Albacore.

[@fezparker2401]

just got back from japan and visited togo's flagship mikasa.well worth it

[@Crosshair84]

30:40 Drach, you've made this mistake a couple of times when talking about setting the torpedo gyro angle. (Please correct me if I am misunderstanding how you are explaining it.) As far as I am aware of, no torpedo from the first half of the 20th century used a timer of any sort. When a torpedo of that period it launched, the gyro will be spun up and attempt to keep the torpedo at that same course it was launched at. To get the torpedo to take a different course from the direction it was launched at, the "Gyro Angle" would be set before launch. Like the name suggests, this involves setting the gyroscope itself to be off course from the launch angle. (There are a couple ways this was accomplished historically.) In this case, lets say 20 degrees to port. So when the torpedo starts and the gyro spins up, it immediately thinks it is 20 degrees off course to port. So the gyro will hold the rudder to starboard until that 20 degree offset becomes 0. The gyro will then operate as normal to hold the torpedo on course. (The German G7e has some extra shenanigans going on inside it.) If you want to see an example of what this looks like, go to 4:46 on the video "RNTF 21 inch Mark 2 torpedo, 1915" made by "vbbsmyt". Thanks for your quality content.

[@Geoff31818]

@drachinife the last USS albacore you mention wasn’t nuclear but a test sun for using a teardrop hull she was a diesel sub

[@longrider188]

Kinkaid has expended most of their armor piercing shells during the battle of Surigao strait the day before, so those old battleships wouldn't have had much to fight Kurita with. They may have done no better than Taffy 3 when fighting Center Force.

[@tombogan03884]

20:12 I live near there and we also call it "Wooster".

[@jaredcolon4535]

Drach what's the real difference in ships if any between the US navy ship classification of BB, CA and CB

[@keithskelhorne3993]

Ref the last question, I'm probaly late to the ball here , but would "oil fired or coal fired steam plant" be more appropriate?

[@speed150mph]

I will say drach, 1:13:26, the wine cellars are interesting, but I feel your selling the US short. The Italians and French may have designed and dedicated a room on their ships specifically for wine, but they didn’t spend a million dollars refitting an entire ship for the sole purpose of making wine….. but the US definitely built an Ice cream barge for no other purpose or reason than to pump out ice cream at a massive scale.

[@Jman7133]

Drach - quick question - if we don't see our question here, is it going to be in the livestream/bumped to March?

[@Drachinifel]

If its not in Part 1 or 2 it should be booked in for the livestream

[@chrisangus7078]

Why when you you talking of what part of the wooden ship replaced make it a different ship. I was thinking of triggers broom .

[@georgehughes8698]

The Godzilla movie hired actual Naval officers to get things as correct as they could. This is extremely unusual for most movie's now days unfortunately.

[@tcpratt1660]

Is it the same ship? I defer to the Japanese concept of a ship having a soul - whether it be a religious connotation, or an inculcation of the traditions, historical experiences of both the navy and the ship itself (hence the term "plankowner")... ...as long as there is a continuous chain of time progression of the same ship being refitted, modded, and cared for, I would say yes, HMS Essex and HMS Victory were the same ships at their end of service as they were when originally launched.

[@jaysonlima7196]

Regarding CL 144, and the pronunciation of her name, you got it right at least by the pronunciation in use in New England.

[@colinlove5062]

Wooster, MA nationally is pronounced the UK English way though in some cases with the local hard New England accent pronounce it “wosta”. The generic American English dialect the Lingua Franca if you will is dialect spoken in and around the urban centers of the Great Lakes region the focal point being Chicago & Detroit. During the rise of mass media anchors with regional dialects were trained to speak that way because it shares many commonalities with the rest of the country except traditional southern twang. I’m broad brushing a bit Boston, NY & Philly have their own local quirks and southern suburbia despite the influx of northerns still has the southern twang albeit much lessened as a percentage of the total population. Then there’s the regional dialects of the upper Midwest Wisconsin, Minnesota & the odd one spoken in the upper peninsula of Michigan. That being a mix of Scandinavian & Canadian, “say ya to da U.P., eh?” translates to “say yes to the upper peninsula, isn’t that right”. That dialect is known as Yooper though it’s not spoken so stereotypically nor is it universal up there. As I’m saying it’s complicated there’s no right way to say anything in American English po-tay-to, po-ta-to. I would go with generic upper midwestern, it’s generally accepted as proper by most. If you really to get lost in the weeds though, Cairo Illinois now that’s a head scratcher. Southern Illinois being separate from Chicagoland but not quite southern though next to the Mason-Dixon has inherited some southern traits. Nationally “Kay-row” is how Cairo is pronounced the local dialect for the name just stuck don’t ask me why it just is.

[@rinkevichjm]

Yamato is carrying many tons of water because he’d taken torpedos the day before. he may have had few new punctures slowing him to 23-24 knots plus he had other injured ships that,AU have been reduced in speed more.

[@cpcw06]

When do we get the next ironclad series installment?

[@BlackCoinCrypto]

I'm thinking steam ship being "coal fired" or "oil fired" being a better description.

[@Josway37]

Screaming "287" on a mother effing dock!

[@ralphtacoma9468]

If made of the same homogenous isotopic material, for shafts of the same outside diameter, the hollow shaft is NEVER stronger than the solid shaft. The hollow shaft will have more strength per pound, but NOT more total strength.

[@subashbose3827]

Worcester. Rhymes with “mister”. Also, you can visit the “Albacore” (2) in Portsmouth NH.

[@bebo4807]

No it doesn’t. I grew up in Worcester. Only idiot townies say “ Wister”.

[@subashbose3827]

Ok Boss Wusta.

[@seanmaier4941]

Hey Drach, why did you choose the year 1950 as the cap for your channels coverage? Security reasons with your navel background?

[@tomdolan9761]

Halsey was asleep when the initial reports started coming in but his staff didn’t wake him because they weren’t alarmed initially. Not until Nimitz’s message from Pearl which was padded with the famous ‘the world wonders..?’ before an angry Halsey begins to become aware of the ire at his dispositions.

[@anatolib.suvarov6621]

Worcester is pronounced the same in New England as it is in the U.K.

[@xavierisrael3320]

OI MATEYS GET THE RUM, NEW PATREON DRYDOCK DROPPED

[@scottyfox6376]

A few mugs of grog will cheer the lads.

[@w.osterberg9385]

If the Soviet ships were finished would the United States have finished the other two Iowa class and sold them to Britain, perhaps on a trade for bases in the Suez area type of deal?