The Dutch- Belgian Conflict over this Abandoned Railway in the South of The Netherlands

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Thank you for watching this week's video. I hope you enjoyed learning about this conflict between The Netherlands and Belgium.
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[@TheDutchcountryside]

Hiya! It's been a long time - from now on there will be a new video every week! Your girl has finally created a schedule and routine that is actually managable and not overwhelming. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this video and if there are any questions you can leave them in the comments and I'm more than happy to answer them😌

[@jensschroder8214]

I think a road with lots of trucks would have a greater impact on nature than a railway. I think it is important that Belgians, Dutch and Germans work together peacefully. The world wars didn't help anyone.

[@Tom-Lahaye]

The information is fairly accurate and well researched, I live pretty close to the Ijzeren Rijn, I'm a railway enthusiast and posses a well written book about the history of this rail line. I'm with you that a new route for the Ijzeren Rijn is a better option as the existing track bed isn't the best indeed and part also go trough some suburbs of Roermond and may be a safety concern for accidents especially with hazardous chemicals. But then a route branching off the existing line north of Rooermond, and then following the A73, N 380 highways in the Netherlands and then the A52 Highway in Germany would a viable alternative as the railway would go around the national park, be combined with the already dividing road trough the German Elmpter Wald and avoiding built up areas, only the incline from the border into Germany would pose a bit of a challenge, but with modern powerful electric locomotives less of a concern than it was in the past with steam and diesel. One aspect was not completely accurate, the pine trees were planted mainly because of the depleted soil after the deforestation of leave trees and grazing of the land, and to prevent sand drifts from growing. The wood was used for the growing coal mining industry in the south of Limburg to be used as pit props, and for the paper industry. For firewood and timber it was less useable. The footage seemed somewhat random at moments with American trains etc, I think there is more appropriate footage and photographic material which can be used with consent of the owners, but I realise contacting every copyright owner is a lot more work in preparing the video too.

[@TheDutchcountryside]

Thank you for adding this information! And thank you for the feedback as well, I really appreciate it (you're right when it comes to the footage, but that definitely was a challenge here). I didn't know that the wood was mainly used for the coal mining industry - so interesting (I'm going to do some reading about that!).

[@korelzenga2305]

I can only agree with Tom’s comments, especially where they concern the footage of the moving trains. There is quite a bit of European, or more specifically Dutch, video footage available, but that may require more work for getting consent to use it. I very much like the subject, being a railway enthusiast. However I found the voice over comments not entirely clear from time to time, prompting me to back up the video so I could listen to it again. The transcript was also useful in some instances. Furthermore, in the description of your channel I noticed a few errors. I’d gladly help you correct them if you want. I’m a native Dutch person, but my English knowledge is near native, having worked almost three decades for international companies where English was a common language, as well as having translated numerous documents to and from English (and German). Lastly, my wife is American, so I speak English on a daily basis. Just let me know if I can be of any assistance. There are no obligations whatsoever.

[@addeenen7684]

Limburg (NL) koos om bij Vlaanderen (BE) te horen. De enige reden waarom Nederland daarna Limburg (NL) heeft bezet, is juist om te voorkomen dat Vlaanderen toegang kreeg tot het Roergebied. Dat Nederland vervolgens tot nu toe Limburg stiefmoederlijk heeft behandeld, heeft geleid tot het scheldwoord Hollenjer in Limburg (NL).

[@TheDutchcountryside]

Interessant! Heb je hier toevallig bronnen voor? Want daar zou ik graag meer over willen lezen. In alle bronnen die ik namelijk gelezen heb vertellen ze dat Nederlands Limburg er inderdaad in het begin voor koos om bij België te horen (omdat Limburgers niks met Nederland hadden). Maar, dat vervolgens met de verdragen is bepaald dat Nederland het oostelijke deel van Limburg kreeg en België het westelijke. Dus niet dat het daarna nog bezet was door Nederland. En ik kon ook niks vinden over het voorkomen van de toegang tot het Roergebied. Ik denk trouwens dat Nederland heel NL (buiten de Randstad) stiefmoederlijk behandeld😅

[@SurfinScientist]

@@TheDutchcountryside Ik heb ergens in een wetenschappelijke studie gelezen dat tot de eerste wereldoorlog Nederlands Limburg en Noord-Brabant zich meer Belgisch voelden dan Nederlands, maar dat dit snel veranderde door de verschrikkingen die Belgie moest ondergaan in WO1.

[@willvangaal8412]

Ze hebben daarna nog een referendum gehouden , en de overgrote meerderheid koos voor Nederland , dat van dat stiefmoederlijke is waar , maar dat hebben ze met Brabant ook eeuwen gedaan , maar Brabant is niet met de pakken neer gaan zitten en is nu een van de rijkste provincies van Nederland .

[@TankDogg-bm7es]

I never heard this part of Netherlands history. Very interesting, I agree let the animals thrive peacefully.

[@TheDutchcountryside]

I'm glad you found it interesting! 😀

[@SGtravelsEU]

If you really wanted to explain the IJzeren Rijn well, you should dive into the politics involved. Not a single rail operator is interested in using this line. There are just too many disadvantages. The trains have to adhere dutch rules and there is no affordable place to change crew. Also, it's only useful for trains going up to Duisburg or Dusseldorf, for most other destinations it would simply be a diversion. So train operators really prefer the route via Aachen West (Montzenroute) or Roosendaal and Venlo (Brabantroute). The main 2 reasons why some people want to reopen the line are the following. First of all people want to reopen the Hamont-Weert section for passengers again. There are quite a few people crossing the border by car and some people want to make public transport available again. Especially in the Belgian area, as the region is more or less neglected way to often by national investments. The second reason is simply prestige. Not in The Netherlands, not in Germany either. It's the Belgians who want to create another international freight corridor in order to gain more prestige, EU funding and to keep the freight traffic as much as possible on the region of Vlaanderen rather than the Wallon region or other countries. It's a reason by politicians, but as I said none of the people involved in actual rail transport are actually in favour of the line. Politicians often reason that the IJzeren Rijn is the faster route, even if a connection towards Venlo is made. However rail operators disagree because loco's have to change end. And this, sadly, takes a lot of time and effort of their crews. As such, rail operators prefer to keep the current infrastructure, with perhaps an improved reliability and more honest capacity. Dutch infrastructure manager Prorail keeps removing infrastructure like passing tracks and thus downsizing the capacity for freight trains in favour of passenger trains. At the same time Belgian infrastructure manager Infrabel has reliability and maintenance issues on the Montzen Route between Vise and Aachen-Gemmenich. The IJzeren Rijn is not really the most favourable route, in fact it's generally disliked, but the disused line may create other problems. Freight operators have equal rights to rail usage as passenger operators. There may be a time when freight operators complain about the lack of infrastructure and capacity on the Breda-Eindhoven section of their routes. At which time, Prorail might be forced to scrap NS passenger services in favour of freight traffic. So in all, these days the IJzeren Rijn is the railway line nobody really wants or really needs, however they use it as an excuse or solutions that shouldn't be there in the first place. Oh and btw, the pine trees in the Roermond-Vlodrop area were mostly panted to use for the mining industry in the southern areas of dutch Limburg. Their wood was well suited for the caves of the mining industry there. Pine trees as horrible for things line firewood, but as they area fast growing and perfect for use in the mines, they were grown there. Also because the soil there wasn't suitable for agriculture. In fact, the small village of Vlodrop-Station and the station itself were build specially for the loading of trees onto trains towards the south. This is why the eastern tracks of Roermond station to some are known to older people as the "houtsporen" (translated: wood tracks). The trains were usually put here until a heavier loco would take them south.

[@TheDutchcountryside]

Thank you for adding all that information, I really appreciate it! What I also find interesting is that no matter where you are in the world, the people that have to work with it always seem to be left out of the discussions on these kind of things. There's a reason the operators don't like it, it's not really hard to listen to them (except for politicians it is haha). And yes, I was made aware in another comment that they were indeed used for the mining industry - thank you for correcting me!

[@pauldamen6740]

Wonder if you're a logistic insider or just a train enthusiast with an opinion. How many operators you've really spoken about your mentioned "non interest" for travelling over the proposed reopened route? Any experience with operating/dispatching freight traffic over the Brabant-route or line 24 and it's grade profile (not to mention that the majority of trains also change end at Aachen West and extra mandatory language/braking tests)? Sounds like you state a lot out of your own opinion and pretend it's the opinion of all rail operators...

[@Eurobazz]

Well said. Your comments are more interesting than the video.

[@piotrberman6363]

I visited The Netherlands once, in the hotel they misspelled my name as Bergman (before, I thought that only Swedes do it automatically, there Berman is simple a misspelled Bergman), and then I heard my "new name", OMG! A sound impossible to reproduce! Now, listening to all those town and village names, including Moenchengladbach in Germany is sooo musical...

[@jooproos6559]

And what was the "new name¨?😊

[@TheDutchcountryside]

Hahah, yeah we're not used to surnames like Berman - instead people will think it's Bergman indeed and that turns into a completely different name. With some practise you will be able to get the sound - but I've heard from some people that they got a sore throat for the first few weeks of trying😂

[@charrogate]

As a train enthusiast from near York, when moving in 2002 to 🇩🇪 Wegberg near Monchengladbach, I quickly spotted the active single track running through near the centre of the town (ca. 30,000 inhabitants) with passenger services ending at Dalheim just before the 🇳🇱 border. At the town hall meeting for new residents being welcomed by the town mayor, my question about reopening the disused section beyond Dalheim through Vlodrop to Roermond recreating the "Eisenerrhein" (Iron Rhine) was shotdown in 🔥 flames stating that the proposed 24/7 freight traffic would be too much of a strain on the residents of the town having two level crossings. The sleepers and rails beyond Dalheim into 🇳🇱 are mostly overgrown with vegetation making walking difficult. How about adding a surface to make it a great 🚲 cycle track until the 🇧🇪 🇩🇪 🇳🇱🇪🇺 multi country political issues hampering the railway are resolved?🤔 PS The Meinweg national park reserve is a lovely area for recreational walks, but please let it not be too overrun by visitors potentially spoiling it 🌲🌳 🌲

[@Gelre1542]

Ik stel commentaar in het Nederlands op hoge prijs.

[@rp8028]

I know that Maharshi Mahesh yogi's meditation retreat MERU in the park meinweg close to Vlodrop has been allowed to expand and permission has been given to build apartments and other buildings. So I believe the concern around the railway line could be more about a noise pollution concern rather than an environmental one. You do not want your silent meditatation to be interrupted by a heavy goods train passing by. Do you ?

[@alxo9844]

I dont really know the nature of the soil or the elevation differences there, but would'nt be possible to divert a bit the line to the south (through Wassenberg for instance) ?

[@marcovtjev]

Nowadays that works and trains pass below the Netherlands straight into German, but it is still less efficient. When the contract was signed in 1839, this was not even a technically viable option. There is also a problem with a clause that Belgium must pay the cost. but the problem is what are the cost? Now the old, preferred track runs through a national park, workarounds are costly. Then the discussion becomes what costs are necessary and whatnot. There also has been an offer to reuse the existing roermond-venlo track, make it wider, electrify it, and go straight into the heart of the Ruhr region from Venlo. But Belgium even considered that to costly. So the whole discussion reduces to environmental concerns, workarounds and division of costs.

[@obelic71]

@@marcovtjev The railway line (maaslijn and part of the southern maaslijn) from Nijmegen by Venlo to Roermond should already been upgraded and expanded in 2022. The green light has finaly been given this month to Swietelsky rail (a big rail construction contractor ) by the regional and national goverment to start construction in 2027. The entire line will be electrified upgraded for higher speeds, heavier trains and aslo partly double tracked. Also a part of the ijzerne Rijn (Lommel Belgium - Weert Netherlands ) is being electrified and double tracked. A brandnew Railway connection bypassing Roermond to the north to the maaslijn and further into Germany is still being discussed. New rules would make that a massive infrastructure works where no railway crossings are allowed so alot of bridges and tunnels must be constructed and safety equipment installed for hazerdous materials transported by freighttrains. Thats why the federal German state of North Rhine Westfalia has/is upgrading 3 existing of ist border railway lines in the south of the Netherlands and Belgium. Those are the lines. Venlo-Viersen(2 to 4 tracks) Landgraaf-Herzogenrath (1-2 tracks electrified) and the Montzen route who has been enforced and electrified.

[@Tsass0]

Tunnel it under the park

[@MrSvenovitch]

Een Nederlandse school 'visiten' waar je dictie kan volgen, misschien ook geen slecht idee? Het is echt niet aangenaam om naar je te luisteren.

[@LindaCasey]

💞💞

[@TheDutchcountryside]

🥰

[@Eurobazz]

Bad commentary and irrelevant film inserts. If you're going to include a narrative in English then speak slower and enunciate your words. It was rushed and incoherent in parts.

[@andrewlarkin6260]

Marry me!

[@obelic71]

There is also an absurd political part that prohibits the reopening / new line of the Ijzeren rijn. The same absurd politics also affect that the euregio 3 country train (Maastricht-Aachen-Liege) Since 2016 it can only run between Maastricht - Aachen. The Liege-Aachen and Liege-Maastricht legs are still not running. The 3 national goverments (Netherlands, Germany and Belgium) bought those trains togheter! The regional Walonie (French) part of Belgium is oposed to the Ijzeren Rijn and euregio trains due to fear of joblosses in the Liege area 🤦‍♂ So no direct trains to the TGV station and international airport in Liege from the Netherlands and Germany. Because the Ijzeren rijn would only benefit the Flemish (Dutch speaking) part of Belgium they opose and block federal Belgium funding!

[@TheDutchcountryside]

Thank you for sharing this extra information - I had no idea that was the case! I guess everything is always even more complicated than it seems haha!

[@send2wj]

If you combine it with fact that Belgium would have to pay the bulk of the costs, especially with a new route, then it becomes clear that the IJzeren Rijn is in an impasse. There is some discussion of extending the local train in Belgium from Hamont to Weert, but doesn’t look like happening soon.

[@obelic71]

@@send2wj That part is already being electrified.

[@obelic71]

@@TheDutchcountryside Never underestimate Belgium politics. first class Kafkaesk Red tape. The Netherlands/Belgium municipals Baarle-Hertog/Nassau (yes that town with more borders then citizens) it took 40 years to plan and build a ring road around the town.

[@send2wj]

@@obelic71 yes, you’re right. But the IJzeren Rijn problem is fast approaching 40 years as well with no end in sight. And not much political will to do something about it.

[@yagi3925]

The commercial hypothesis (the port of Antwerp being a direct competitor of Rotterdam) is much more likely than the environmental one, considering how money-minded and greedy the Dutch are. They have been using all kinds of methods for decades to keep Antwerp behind Rotterdam, including refusing to dredge the Scheldt properly on its final strech through NL, as a way to hamper the shipping traffic between the sea and Antwerp. The Dutch are terrible competitors and ready to use any method, fairplay or not, to have the upper hand in commercial matters.

[@willvangaal8412]

He Belgje ga je weer Nederlander bashen , een favoriete sport van jullie , de schelde mogen ze voor mijn part helemaal dicht gooien .

[@DamaxThomas]

Thanks for the episode, it was well researched. Now, you made a planning, I'm waiting for the next video.

[@RAHULSS31]

Nicely explained!