The Electric Motor Test Stand / Dyno - Test Runs and Motor-Experiments

[@ThePostApocalypticInventor]

Hey guys, a few things: 1.)Please visit PROTECTOR 101 and check out his amazing music that I used in the beginning of this video. protector101.bandcamp.com/album/dream kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJK3lKCIrpmfpqM 2.) At 25:08 I marked the power value at the wrong spot. The red line has to be drawn all the way to the powe-scale on the right. The output power is at around 60W

[@douro20]

The Post Apocalyptic Inventor Tell me, does he have a Fairlight CMI? It sounds very much like one.

[@ThePostApocalypticInventor]

I don're really know :D But I guess you can just ask him yourself. Jake is a really nice guy.

[@dianal3474]

I had to test a 10,000 HP 115,000 Vac 3 phase motor that was used to pump cooling water in power plants. We closed a seven foot diameter valve to load the motor like a dynamometer test until the motor stalled. Back in the late 1990s to record the data we used a Honeywell Viscorder Oscillograph. Where I worked (ABB Power Systems) we made the speed sensors for the motor and also a detector to measure the shaft wobble.

[@visvivacnckenya1620]

Motors were my first toys.. Brother I love how you can simplify to this level.. Give us some more..

[@noweare1]

I was always curious about the why there are so many different types of motors and configuration shunt wound, series wound, shaded pole etc.. etc.. and how they worked. I think the motor is one of the top 5 inventions ever. It made our lives much easier. I plan to follow your series and read up on motor in addition. Thank you, great series

[@gordo4055]

This test bed could be a great opportunity to discuss and demonstrate power factor correction. Great work, keep it up!

[@Debraj1978]

Super like and thumbs up. I work for a company and we test motor on dynamometer for testing algorithms. They dynamometer is new model and has all sort of control to simulate a mechanical load which behaves as constant torque, constant power, variable etc. What you showed is pure electrical engineering and behaviour of each motor (physics in them). But we work on algorithm (running on DSP), which makes the motor behave extremely stable speed (using closed loop speed and current control, PID). Dynamometer always fascinates me. You tested different motor with one brake and i guess, the brake would have been super hot at the end of testing. In Germany, the cold climate may help, but in my country, brake needs extra cooling blower. Otherwise, the coil inside will fry in no time.

[@bobvincent5921]

Very interesting for different wound motors and torque output. I like the graph reading of power etc.

[@the_real_foamidable]

This was interesting. I really had to watch it twice. Looking forward to see more of it and your setup.

[@mathuetax]

THIS is what I watch KZbin for!

[@esnam6557]

Very interesting, I never looked at the electric motors in such details and glad to ‎learn more about the differences. Thank you very much for the video and looking ‎forward the next ones.‎

[@WaltonPete]

Great to see the equipment up and running! I hope you enjoyed your time in Berlin. It's interesting to see how very different the various motor types behave under load and your video goes a long way to explain why manufacturers choose the specific types of motors that they do. It seems that I have a lot to learn about motors in general!

[@noweare1]

You've been busy. Everything looks great & professional.

[@bjem2287]

One thing to note is that maximum power transfer is not everything. The efficiency curve is used to determine whether the motor is being overloaded or not. Generally you want to select a motor that operates at peak efficiency on a given load. This is because a motor that is too small will suffer excessive I^2 R losses, and a motor that is too large is just too big and will suffer excessive magnetisation and windage losses.

[@stevereed2788]

Thank you TPAI! The video was well worth the wait! Greetings from Krefeld.

[@isidoromaich7226]

That lab equipment seems like a lot of fun. Unfortunately after this video, these things will increase their value on eBay. I'm glad you was able to got the whole package so you can give us a good show.

[@geef6770]

I liked this video, especially 'Dehnungsmeßstreifenbrückenvorrichtung' - what a cute old German word..

[@mechguy83]

This is Amazing, I really want to hang out with this gentleman and pick his brain....

[@catt87]

You finally got that thing up and running. That's so cool. Real nice video. Thank you :D

[@nomadic_rider42]

I wish I could have been as patient as you are. Nice work. 👍

[@VeraTR909]

The vintage setup looks awesome, nice video!

[@OvertravelX]

This is seriously awesome! You should get Stefan Gotteswinter to make you some extra motor adapters to mate with the brake.

[@markavis7232]

What a great test rig! The university where I used to lecture in engineering throws things like this away quite a lot - it is rather depressing. Your presentation is excellent, really clear - if you were doing this for an undergrad audience and could spend a little more time where I can see you know you need to, you'd be a great success as a lecturer. Maybe in this time of Covid and distance education, here is another income stream for you! All the best from Manchester UK Mark

[@yosuhara]

you're the best, you videos should be shown in schools as proper educational material :) I didn't know half of that motors even existed. Thanks

[@sheep1ewe]

This video was realy well made and wery intreresting content too. (I love them all wery much, but this one was another highlight).

[@wiktorm5839]

TPAI I'm very curious about practical uses of your setup. Congratulations for your results and efforts you made.

[@allesklarklaus147]

Very cool setup! I'm sure everyone would like to see all the motor tests.. or is it just me

[@semidemiurge]

great set up and looking forward to further experiments

[@John_Smith__]

Very nice video to culminate the for sure hard work of putting all that test equipment to good work :) Keep it up !

[@monsternovideo2659]

i really enjoy watching dr strangelove explain his projects and basic science.

[@DonMillerNC]

Where does all the heat go that the brake generates? The brake did not seem to have any vanes to move air, and it didn't appear to have a large surface area.

[@station240]

One question, is this magnetic powder brake something that could be built from scratch ? I'd also be interested in seeing how the 3 phase variable dummy loads are constructed.

[@Seegalgalguntijak]

Great to see you made it home to Cologne! :)

[@Debraj1978]

22:33 = The exact straight line also signifies that the torque is exactly proportional to the current drawn by motor. If you measure the current in motor, you get the torque generated by motor in a certain scale. T = Kt * I; where, Kt = torque constant (in Nm/A), which is surprisingly the same as back emf constant, if measured in V/(rad/sec)

[@TheNARF86]

Hats off . this was really informative and entertaining . more about it please 👍

[@morkovija]

Yass! Our quality content delivery!

[@victoryfirst2878]

Can you please tell me what is the most efficient electric motor that is reasonably priced ??? Thanks

[@estebanpa7923]

Excelent video

[@totolastico]

It seems more interesting to me that the training i've had in school 20 years ago !!! ;-) thanks

[@edgeeffect]

I know you say your code is "temporary at best" but it would be good to see it anyway... ... it's what I always say "oh let's have a look at your code"

[@iainwade]

Awesome work. Would love to see some analysis of small hobby bldc motors and stepper motors.

[@paulrautenbach]

This was very informative. I look forward to future videos. Thanks.

[@alecjahn]

Incredible work!

[@nielssterrenburg]

Learning a lot, great video, great work saving the educational added value of the setup and turning it into this class :D

[@Debraj1978]

Very well explained in SI units. I am sure, you are not from USA, where people uses weird units.

[@adrianschneider4441]

Great stuff. Looking forward to more of that. Cool intro.

[@bostedtap8399]

Excellent channel, great experiment, and very interesting. Thanks.

[@oestrek]

great video very interesting. I am very interested in seeing more on this subject.

[@mr.amp0076]

Epic intro.... Wooo...

[@andrewnambudripad762]

Awesome man. What actually determines the value of (mech output power/electrical input power). Magnetic saturation of the windings? In a production environment, it seems like you'd have to overspec your motor for like 5x actual load in order to hit the efficiency peak point.. Can you alter the electrical profile of the input power to prevent this? On the ELWE console, how does the 'regulation' function operate?

[@ufohunter3688]

I am hoping that you will consider doing a DIY series on how to make an electronic break for the hobbyist. It can be a car alternator coupled with an Arduino or alike and a small program to chart and display the graph of the characteristic of small DC motors. Also, have you ever come across a variable inductance pulse motor? I have only heard of some being used on the Shuttle with efficiencies > 85%. Very rare.

[@everydayirace]

very cool video, thank you.

[@bgdwiepp]

Are you sure n/min^-1 is correct? because that would be n/(1/min) or n*min? no?

[@thelastofthemartians]

Hmmm the intro sounds a bit like Kraftwerk ... I love it :)

[@JohnRaschedian]

Thank you! Great video!

[@cdsisf]

Hi, sorry to bother you, but I needed your opinion on a type of electric motor. I needed to find an electric motor that will move a load of 15 kg (window that goes up and down) with a counterweight at a relatively low speed. This movement will be triggered by a controller board of the Arduino genre. The problem is that I need to move the window up or down manually at any time (whether the window is moving or not). I fear that a normal electric motor will not let me do that. Can you steer me to the right kind of engine I have to look for? Thank you very much in advance.

[@edgeeffect]

Excellent music at the start... I love the TPAI theme tune (show us how to play it one day) but it's good to hear something different sometimes too. (Oh! It's not your music. :O ) "revolutions per minute" :P after you spent all that time teaching us about frequency of revolution. (I even converted my lathe's speed chart from RPM to frequency of revolution) It all reminds me of a higher-tech electrical version of Torquestructomatic.

[@alexj0101]

Your content is amazing

[@douro20]

I had no idea they made such large shaded-pole motors.

[@Basement-Science]

I think it´s just to show how horrible they would be to a class. Noone in their right mind would actually use one this big in a real application.

[@duncpol]

I was really hoping for you to do synchronous servo motor test.

[@MrKitesurfercharlie]

Your capital N on the graph is meant to represent number of rotations and not Newtons, right?

[@DougHanchard]

Are you sure of the Newton Meter torque figures? All seem very low for motors of this size.

[@Reparaturkanal]

Hallo TPAI, ich habe einen Kompressor aus dem Altmetall gerettet, und nach einer ersten Reinigung sieht er schon wieder ganz ok aus. Ich habe dieses Modell früher verkauft, als ich noch in einem Werkzeug-Geschäft angestellt war. Leider sind alle Anschlusskabel vom Pressostat her angeschnitten, und müssen direkt an der Wicklung angelötet werden. Dafür muss ich die Schnüre, die die Wicklungen zusammen halten aufschneiden. Ich habe keine solchen Schnüre, wie heissen die, und wer verkauft die? Ich habe gesehen, wie Du in deinem Intro-Video eine Wicklung zusammen bindest, deshalb frage ich dich. Gruss Dominik

[@gaspuu]

Have you ever rewound an electric motor rotor and/or stator? Would that be part of your "how to fix" things thinking? Or is it maybe too much "core repair" and you have plenty of salvaged parts anyhow...

[@wartoc3708]

Very informative. Thank You.

[@davids381]

good video

[@kayjay8254]

Nice Video!

[@anchorbait6662]

So if you want to operate at the point of maximum efficiency then to do 3/4hp of work you should buy a motor that is rated at a maximum of 1hp?? Assuming 75% of max will be near the range of best efficiency. Does that sound about right? Basically get a motor that's rated max hp at 25% above your desired normal operating hp?

[@Debraj1978]

In a permanent magnet DC motor, the torque output is decided by the PRODUCT (multiplication) of strength of the permanent magnet and current through the winding. In cheaper motors, the magnets are made smaller and you need to push more current into the winding to generate certain torque. This higher current causes higher losses. Note that, in permanent magnet motor, most losses are I^2R losses. The motor data sheet that was shown must had been a low cost motor and was meant to run at 3/4th of full load and occasionally run at full load. Hence, the cost and performance make complete sense. On the other hand, if you want to buy expensive motor, it will have peak efficiency closer to its full load, and I bet such motor will have neodymium magnets, which have higher flux and are more expensive than ferrite magnets.

[@anchorbait6662]

Debraj Deb that makes total sense. Thanks for the rundown. I appreciate it.

[@PeterMilanovski]

Okay, so the series would shaded pole motor would make a good generator if it's rotor is modified to accept magnet's and it should be able to supply power to the parallel wound shaded pole motor while it drives the series wound shaded pole motor mechanically! It works with the shaded pole motors that are used as fan's in microwaves... There's a good Video demonstration by someone who really sounds like the guy from Diodes Gone Wild... He used that soft magnetic material that is used in PC cooler fans, machined out the rotor to wrap that soft magnet around it and was able to power what looked like a 40W 220v incandescent light globe!.. I think that the channel is called FreeEnergy4All... There's two videos that look exactly the same but on is from someone else, in his Video, he shows a picture of how it needs to be and then a picture of the motor in pieces including the flexible soft split ring magnet... It looks like one of those free energy scams but this one might actually work! Besides, everyone loves a Scam Busting Video! But like I said earlier, I have seen all the scams but this one actually looks like it works!

[@fredlllll]

shunt wound motors are awesome :D

[@shuumai]

What model is that multimeter? I have one that looks like it.

[@joeydollars3149]

1st question- did u use a known motor and data to test the accuracy/inaccuracy of your measuring device???

[@whatthefunction9140]

I would like to see you convert a truck alternator into a motor.

[@policedog4030]

Wonderful thought provoking video as usual - no one but the PAI is making videos like this and a consequential topic.I will ponder this demo while spinning up my 130 watt Mr. Coffee grinder every morning and also when I fire up my 10,000 RPM Shop-Vac vacuum cleaner and when I ride the Siemens Elevator up to the 10th floor.I'm thinking the most commonly used motor in terms of total elapsed hours in the world might be the one on everyone's computer power supply and processor cooler?If I may suggest adding a thermocouple to show the gradient temperature rise in the windings during your tests.. Even if we could see that some of us older folks in America will still have to type into to Google to translate the degrees from C to F so we can understand.. 40 degrees C = 104 F

[@allesklarklaus147]

Police Dog I think to get Fahrenheit it is 1.8 (or 1.6?) times the value in celsius and than substract 32. The Motor you talk about is weird indeed. It is a permanent magnet DC motor but electronically commutated. Very simple electronics setup with just 2 transistors and a few passives.

[@Xxvid12]

Can you explain the value of torque? The unit does not make any sense to me.

[@ThePostApocalypticInventor]

I have been thinking about making a video about the basic physics of rotating systems for a while. It's of course not easy to explain this in short in the comments, but just imagine that there are basic physical quantities both for linear movements, as well as for rotating movements. For linear movements we use the quantity "Force" measured in "Newton" to express a physical force applied to any given point or object. Like for example the force that is pulling your body down to the ground. This force is pointing down to the center of gravity of the Earth in a linear way. But some forces are not really linear, but they are applied to a point that is rotating around another point. And for those cases you can use a "torque". In German it is called "Drehmoment" which means "rotating momentum". A classic example to explain torque is a wrench that is used to tighten a nut, that is sitting on a bolt. You press against the wrench, which is then rotating around the nut. That force can then also be expressed as a "torque" in "Newtons times Meters" or Newtonmeters (Nm). And in this example the actual numerical value of the torque could be calculated by multiplying the force applied by your hand times the length of the "lever" that is represented by the distance from the center of the nut to the end of wrench. Applying a higher force, or making the lever longer will both increase the torque applied to the nut. But it's really hard to explain it with a text. You should check out some videos about that. I'm sure there are some good explanations on KZbin.

[@Xxvid12]

I'm sorry I should have been more specific. In the video, the motor's torque is given as about 635 M/mN*m. My question is. What does this value equate to. It does not make any sense, since torque is normally given in N*m. It's the big M (maybe Mega?), and why do they divide by the unit of torque?

[@Xxvid12]

So yeah... I got confused between the symbol of torque (M) and the unit (mN*m). Bad way of illustrating both symbol and unit in my perspective. Anyway great video. We have sort of the same dynamometer on our school up here in Denmark. We used in to demonstrate torque curves for 3 phase motors. I'm studying to become a marine engineer at Martec in frederikshavn

[@ThePostApocalypticInventor]

Well. It's the way it's taught at some German universities. There is a mathematical reason for that. The graph itself only contains numbers and not the units themselves. But an actual measurement consists of the product of a number and a unit of measurement. If you now solve for the number you get this: M=12 mNm 12= M/mNm. So the "M/mNm" is actually a description of what the numbers on that axis represent, and not a value that is supposed to be multiplied with the number. That's why I did that. The M is also printed in "italic" so that it can not be confused with a unit of measurement. But I understand that it must seem confusing when you are used to something else. Best regards, Gerolf

[@JN.0_o]

Those test stands look a bit like the Lucas-Nülle equipment that my university use.

[@JN.0_o]

www.lucas-nuelle.com/316/apg/4683/EEM-3-3-AC-machines-300W.htm

[@ThePostApocalypticInventor]

Lucas-Nülle, Leybold (former Leybold-Heraeus) and Elwe (Now owned by Leybold or LD-Eductaion) seem to be the three companies who make these, or used to make these test-stands. They are all of exceptional quality. I don't know of any manufacturerers from other countries though. When I was still looking for these parts, I was also considering buying a Lucas-Nülle-System, but I got lucky with this ELWE-system on Ebay :)

[@JN.0_o]

The ones that I've seen have seemed to been built to a high standard, and their modular, plug-and-play approach to all of their mechanical, electrical and electronic components is excellent. The only complaints that I've had over the last few years are about slightly buggy software, poor documentation (English) and weak, oversimplified lab tutorials that don't really explain what's actually going on very well. I had heard that they were tremendously expensive too, from memory I think we spent over a million euros furnishing half of one of the labs. I think there was an open line of communication with LN for improvements though.

[@ThePostApocalypticInventor]

I actually always loved the equipment they used in school and university. They all were of very high quality and I can understand why there are actually people who "hunt" and collect this stuff. But I also always wondered if there wasn't a way to make these things WAY cheaper. Especially for schools in less-developed countries. Developing and producing something like that is a line of work, that I could see myself in.

[@WaltonPete]

The Post Apocalyptic Inventor I suspect one reason for the high cost, other than the built-to-last quality, is the limited quantities manufactured. If, perhaps, one could somehow use many existing components to build such a system it could potentially be done for less. Possibly the use of digital technology and additive manufacturing could enable such an idea to become a reality.

[@MiggyManMike]

Is it wrong that I misheard "rotation speed" as "potato speed" ?

[@Darieee]

Awesome - if you want more precise analog readings, there's a 16b ADC module floating around aliexpress (and probably ebay) for

[@brotschuh]

yeah, my brain just kinda exploded :D

[@Henchman1977]

You're alive!?!

[@lgianaro]

You should get a job with Tesla designing new motors. I'm sure Elon Musk would hire you in a minute!

[@custos3249]

So what you're saying is, if we want to get data sheets for motors out of devices manufacturers fail to put online, we should mail them to you. I smell a whole new, well, spinoff! Or maybe that's just cooking wire insulation. Hard to say.

[@balramgurung6125]

He wants to build these cheap and sell to schools.

[@munembre7526]

3 phase motor with PWM will beat them all :)

[@Basement-Science]

pretty much. Except in terms of cost, complexity and robustness(depends).

[@km5405]

inception got nothing on that intro.

[@VGScreens]

so dramatic haha

[@MrKitesurfercharlie]

n/min^-1=n*min

[@Udavvf]

13:36 kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5WuZ3-Mea5mock same intonation

[@hrxy1]

boreing