The Elizabeth Line, 1.5 Years on: What We Can Learn

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The Elizabeth line is great, but it might be too great for its own good. In today's video, we talk about how to bring the Tube to the Liz Line's standards.
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Ever wondered why your city's transit just doesn't seem quite up to snuff? RMTransit is here to answer that, and help you open your eyes to all of the different public transportation systems around the world!
Reece (the RM in RMTransit) is an urbanist and public transport critic residing in Toronto, Canada, with the goal of helping the world become more connected through metros, trams, buses, high-speed trains, and all other transport modes.

[@GojiMet86]

The Elizabeth Line showing how new, yet desperately needed infrastructure can be successful. All the more reason to go ahead with Crossrail 2 and undo the cancellation of HS2.

[@berkhofduvedec]

Billions of pounds and years of waiting and construction..

[@christopherlloyd-roberts2205]

@@berkhofduvedec well yes, naturally, nothing gets built for free and overnight when it comes to infrastructure. Do you have a better ideas that relieve the congestion in London and the North south rail routes?

[@iliketrains3546]

@@christopherlloyd-roberts2205well said

[@garethking5322]

Crossrail 2 is needed. But anything agreed on that before spades are in the ground for any Transpennine route just isn't politically possible.

[@MrPsychomonkey]

@@garethking5322 Crossrail 2 is not really need. We already have thameslink. HS2 is needed

[@gregs2284]

Imagine if Reece saw the Underground before the Metronet projects 15 years ago. It included massive tunnel renovations and 50 station renovations.

[@RMTransit]

Oh absolutely no doubt things have improved a lot! But I think we need to continue in that direction

[@ijmad]

The tube of the early 1990s was truly grimy. Dilapidated stations, dirt and dust everywhere, the smell of poorly maintained brakes and ozone, old unpainted metal trains that broke down frequently. It's a wonder it survived!

[@charleswhitney3235]

There's a nice set of videos on YT from Citytransportinfo contrasting Bank station in 1990 and 2010. Search for Bank Station London 1990-2010 Contrasts Part 1

[@Chanemus]

Its worth mentioning that station upgrade works, specifically the bank upgrade, actually made noise issues worse. The increased speed on new rail alignments and concrete lined tunnels makes for some of the most horrendous screeching sounds on the network. Counter intuitively newer sections tend to be the loudest on the tube.

[@ralphzechendorf1644]

We had the same in Brussels. When they opened a new section (Bizet-Erasmus) in 2003, I immediately noticed that the noise was a lot higher in there.

[@RMTransit]

That’s fascinating, but then they should probably rethink how they do things, perhaps lining the concrete with some sort of sound absorbent material?

[@mischiefmayhemsoap]

@@ralphzechendorf1644 I generally found the Brussels Metro very loud, and the underground going trams too. But tbf, I only took old metro trains

[@quoniam426]

Changing tunnel alignment over longer distances to widen the curves would be very expansive... As for concrete tracks making more noise, that is also the fact in Paris metro newer (non rubber tyre lines) sections, especially on lines 12 and 13. Line 12 extension to Aubervilliers features a very winding tunnel built with a TBM and with concrete sealed tracks. The noise in the sharp curve where trains go super fast makes a lot a noise, considering those old trains don't have any sound insulation at all nor do they have airtight ventilation systems and frequently have windows open, the noise must be excrutiating for the daily commuters. Newer trains have such insulations and it is night and day.

[@camjkerman]

I believe the noise around Bank isn't due to increased speed, nor concrete tunnels. There seems to be different types of loud noises on the underground, the ones that come from tight curves- like the Northern line between London Bridge and Stockwell- the ones that come from high speed, like the Victoria line between Finsbury Park and Highbury and Islington, and a third, that seems to come from the type of rail fixtures used, and can be found in small sections all over the system, like on the Northern line between Euston (Bank Branch) and Kentish Town, or on the Victoria line between Kings Cross St Pancras and Euston, or on the Central line between Stratford and Leyton, and more. I believe it comes from complaints from people living above the lines of noise and vibrations from the tube, so new rail fittings were installed that isolated everything, the problem is, all those vibrations had to go somewhere and they became noise in the tunnels.

[@edwardabercrombie1961]

Pretty spot on points 👌. As a semi-regular user of the Liz line the quieter and generally more comfortable ride is definitely one of the things I appreciate most. Also the Bank upgrade has genuinely made it much more appealing to interchange there.

[@RMTransit]

Thanks! Good to know I’m not dreaming

[@SteveChambers]

I now take bus + Crossrail trips where I would complete the journey entirely by the Tube previously. There isn't much of a time difference but the ride quality is better. TfL put out some ridership data that showed this is a trend.

[@RMTransit]

I feel very validated

[@HJ-br3lt]

@@RMTransit This has also made the Central Line noticeably quieter at peak times. Everyone's a winner

[@asayed8051]

I've got family in the UK, so I was in London for about a month this summer, and truly the Elizabeth Line has completely changed the way I get around there. It's true that while Elizabeth Line is new and great to use, the Tube genuinely seems to have deteriorated a lot in the last few years. You've done a great job at highlighting that both factors play into why riders are not just choosing the Liz line, but actively avoiding the Tube when possible.

[@RMTransit]

It does feel like the tube has gotten rougher, very unfortunate because it’s so extensive

[@Zveebo]

I really do think most of any perception of the Tube getting worse is just the brain playing tricks when also travelling on the Elizabeth Line for comparison - it’s so much better in so many ways that the rest of the network can’t help but feel a little lesser in comparison. I think if you were only travelling on the Tube now and, say, back in 2018, you really wouldn’t notice much difference either way.

[@mattpotter8725]

@@Zveebo I used to live in North London and work in Central London, before the Elizabeth Line was finished, and anyone saying they avoid using the tube, which I'm sure is possible for some, just isn't possible if you need to go fairly long distances and there isn't really an alternative. When I heard RMTransit say this my thought was that he must be staying in Central London or reasonably close to the Elizabeth Line because if you don't have this option and it's either a 20 minute journey on the underground or an hour on a bus then you won't be avoiding the bus, I can tell you this for free, because I remember when the Underground line I had to use on a daily basis had issues it was a nightmare getting to work. The Underground is an aging system, a lot so doesn't have modern signalling, mainly because it is very difficult and costly to upgrade so whilst it's far from perfect it's pretty damn good for its age and I'm sure those running it would love to upgrade the lines that get the hottest or have terrible air quality the amount the Elizabeth Line over ran in costs, plus the effects of the pandemic and loss of revenue because of it means that there are other bigger priorities right now that need funding first.

[@ballyhigh11]

i agree with Zveebo. I think it's definitely because you compare it with the Liz Line. Which goes to Reece's point in the video about people literally going out of their way to use it because it feels so modern, bright, clean and comfortable in comparison to the tube network. When you leave a Liz Line platform and go into a legacy section of the tube it literally feels like you're going back in time!

[@AB-zl4nh]

I think this is because the Overground & Elizabeth Line make the other lines look worse in comparison & they haven't had major upgrades so the Inequality gap has grown.

[@haisheauspforte1632]

Hamburg has retrofitted lifts and level boarding to about 50% of their U-Bahn stations in just the past 10 years alone, going from about 40% of stations step free in 2010 to more than 95% today. It was basically the mayor (Olaf Scholz) making a promise in 2011 to get all stations accessible within a decade, and even though they could not finish the effort in time, it shows what can be possible when you're investing in your stations. London absolutely could make all TfL stations accessible (including level boarding!) within two decades if this was a goal.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

Does the U-Bahn have trains of multiple heights running on it? Unless it does TfL has some significant obstacles Hamburg doesn't have to worry about. Having the oldest underground metro system in the world means having a lot of legacy issues that stack up and are very difficult to fix

[@weifengjiang7579]

Retrofitting lifts on London’s deep level system would be far harder and more expensive. With some stations the ticket hall is nowhere near the platforms.

[@haisheauspforte1632]

@@weifengjiang7579 of course, but this is definitely worth it. Also, you don't have to build the lift to the ticket hall. The lift can just go to street level directly if there are streets over the station

[@_JohnDoe]

@@haisheauspforte1632, the ticket hall is where the traveller touches in and out. How can you bypass it and go directly from street to platform or vice versa?

[@haisheauspforte1632]

@@_JohnDoe well you could tap in and out in the lift cabin. No lift ride without tapping your card, actually not too difficult to implement compared to building all lifts to the ticket halls

[@1nbp]

For the S-stock (I’m on one right now haha) TfL does see the early wearing moquette for the seats as an issue and they are replacing it too. They are due for a refurbishment soon, but it won’t be very comprehensive. In respect to the non-level boarding at stations outside of the core, it mainly comes down to train manufacturing. They chose a non standard train height which was a massive oversight. For platform screen/edge doors, there realistically won’t be any installations in the foreseeable future. TfL is already strapped for money, so they won’t install them until old trains are replaced and they have a common door alignment.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

The trains are a standard height, within a couple millimeters of what nearly all trains in the UK are. The issue is that’s not the same as the standard platform height. Another issue on top of that, though not really relevant for this line, is that many platforms are still lower than the standard platform height

[@Nick-kz6dg]

@@andrewreynolds4949 They spent all that money upgrading and beautifying the existing stations that the Liz Line took over, but they couldn't spend a little bit more to raise the platform heights?

[@andrewreynolds4949]

@@Nick-kz6dg They are the national standard platform height. The Elizabeth Line core stations are actually a non-standard height to get the level boarding, though that is the normal train height...

[@m.howarth47]

When I moved to London I lived for three years on the Piccadilly line and thought it was the best thing ever. However, now that I live on the District line I can't bear to go down to the lower lines, they feel so cramped and hot and noisy in comparison and will avoid at all costs if I can, even if it means a longer walk at the end. Similarly I need to travel via Gatwick a lot and will often find myself choosing a longer tube ride to go to Blackfriars rather than the closer Victoria just for the option of the escalators and elevators at the station. So yeah I do agree with you about people especially locals choosing the nicer experience over convenience, still yet to have tried the Elizabeth line though 😅

[@RMTransit]

I mean, I think it just goes to show that speed while important is not everything

[@ayindestevens6152]

@@RMTransitthis is why I always say people will pick convenience/comfort over speed any day

[@cozzie49]

Londoner here - honestly the Lizzy Line is my go to for everything whenever I go into the city. In most cases you can get places quicker but even if not I'd rather go on that into central and walk a bit further from Tottenham court road instead of having to make changes between underground stations or go without aircon. It also makes getting to Heathrow a lot less shite!

[@danielsimpson607]

Is an amazing line with some great new stations and was suprised how much I used it in my routes while visiting London. Dont forgot the job its doing to save riders hearing compared to other lines 😂

[@RMTransit]

Oh, I didn’t make sure to watch till the end of the video!

[@JevHaagus]

I feel like the opening was yesterday! Time flies😅

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

2:20 to 2:22 You're knocking the S Stock Underground trains, but they must be pretty awesome because even the pigeons prefer riding them compared to flying.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

P.S. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, look in the center aisle of the train at the pigeons walking on the floor.

[@robertcartwright4374]

They caught my eye immediately. The urbanized street-smarts of wildlife in a city like London is something to marvel at!@@theultimatereductionist7592

[@cocazade7703]

I 100% agree with the noise issue. I find the Central and Northern lines in particular to be ear-piercing loud and screechy when turning. Its especially loud with the windows open. When I was visiting London I always tried avoid the Central line and take the Elizabeth line instead to my hotel in the East end

[@ishaqmo7200]

Just traveled on the jubilee line, my ears can agree

[@tungro]

I live on one of the commuter rail lines into Waterloo and thought the Elizabeth Line wouldn't be useful to me. How wrong I was. I found it more convenient to drive to a Liz Line station and get that into London, than driving to my local train station. Most places I go to are walking distance from a central Liz Line station. And those that aren't, are only an easy interchange away. The trains definitely help with that! Really surprised at how it actually changed how I travel.

[@Tobberz]

I have a choice where I am, to commute via Bakerloo/Elizabeth or Bakerloo/Central. They take *identical* times, to the minute. Although the Elizabeth option has about 5 minutes more walking time, I go for it every time for basically the reasons you outlined here.

[@isaacramsay7889]

My favourite thing about Crossrail is how so many stations are basically two stations connected together by a new platform. EG Liverpool Street - Moorgate, Bond Street - Oxford Circus

[@user-lp5wb2rb3v]

I wish the overground did this at Whitechapel to Canadawater, it would have one stop at Shadwell/ Wapping and another at Canadawater/ Surrey Quay

[@henreereeman8529]

100% agree with the points made in this vid. It's a real shame our current government doesn't recognise the potential the tube has with some strategic investments (or a lot of big investments lol). I also think that lots of tube stations could do with more bike parking, especially in outer london where the tube is less dense.

[@enemyofthestatewearein7945]

The Mayor of London is of the opposition party to the government so TfL funding gets used as a point scoring political football. This will likely change (with a new government) next year but it will still be difficult to raise TfL's budget because lack of transit funding in the rest of the UK (vs London) is another big political issue, and UK government is very cash strapped full stop. Albeit UK rail funding has increased significantly over the last couple of decades, the money has not always been utilized efficiently due to our shambolic and fragmented franchising system.

[@RMTransit]

Feels crazy to starve the countries most important city that way

[@gymnasiast90]

@@RMTransit That’s the current government for you. They have removed funding from just about everything and made their friends and family very wealthy in the process. If it happened in Africa, we’d call them "fantastically corrupt", but since they are friends with Murdoch’s "newspapers", nothing gets reported.

[@garethking5322]

​@RMTransit problem is say, in Canada all the major cities are getting nice big projects. London for the past 20 years has really been the only place that has received investment. So we have big cities like Leeds and its West yorkshire urban area, basically similar sized Vancouver, with no metro system. It's unbalanced and puts too much pressure on London. (We still need to build Crossrail 2 etc) but much cheaper Metros to be built in Glasgow, Birmingham, and Leeds-Bradford would have bigger bang for buck.

[@railotaku]

@@RMTransit Back in the early 2010s the then Mayor Johnson (Conservative) proposed a massive overground expansion taking over some of the National Rail lines in South London - it was blocked by Central Government and the leaked letter basically said "with an imminent election, It is more important to keep these lines out of the hands of a future Labour mayor" - if they can screw over their opponents they will. HS2 is another example with there being urgent efforts to sell off the land in a fire sale before the next election so if Labour win they can't undo the cancellation without having to restart the purchase process over again (at massively inflated costs)

[@enemyofthestatewearein7945]

@@garethking5322 A big part of the problem is that the Uk's economy is too focused on London, something that HS2 was supposed to address by pushing investment into the regions. The results of this can already be seen in the rapid development of Birmingham (and even Manchester) but unfortunately, the HS2 project too was trashed due to petty short term party politics. Regional cities do need a step change in transit investment (and Liverpool is a good example of what's possible even within limited budgets) but this shouldn't be a reason to curb investment in London too.

[@RoboJules]

2:15 I love how there are just a couple of pigeons catching a ride on the train.

[@caseyfalconer7347]

The pigeons love a free ride on the tubes. Seen plenty hop on for a stop on the district 😂

[@vintagestuffguy1998]

I hope you can travel more for future videos, the quality of these London videos now you’ve been a couple times is really high, you can really tell you’ve used it and have both detailed knowledge and a good feel for how the system works. Seeing your take on the Paris metro on location or anywhere else would be amazing! Make a patreon fundraiser for it or something

[@Fan652w]

Thanks Reece for an excellent video. I entirely agree with your favourable comments regarding the Liz line. However I have one criticism. The information screens inside the Liz line trains are not nearly as good as those on Thameslink trains.

[@ChannelHypermach]

How did you comment 3 hours before when video just release 2 minute?

[@tipszmikszcsabi8854]

​@@ChannelHypermachbro came from the future💀, actually I assume he is a channel member and was able to see it earlier

[@caw25sha]

It's just software so can be improved easily. If you have any specific suggestions maybe you could contact TfL, or I think there's an organisation called Rail User's Group or something like that.

[@Taalul]

@@tipszmikszcsabi8854I don’t think there’s a channel membership, there’s a patreon and nebula.

[@tipszmikszcsabi8854]

@@Taalul well then bro really was here before the video came out haha

[@TheIronArmenianakaGIHaigs]

I go out of my way to use it :D Elizabeth flying reminds me that public transport can actually be comfortable and fast. The deep level lines are hell compared to the Elizabeth line. I only have two complaints. For some reasons the Elizabeth line trains take quite a while in each station. Tube trains are barely in the station for few seconds but the Elizabeth takes its time before it leaves. The seats are a little bit more harder than the regular tube lines.

[@holnrew]

Finally used it in September, it really is lovely. Even the S stock felt awful after.

[@RMTransit]

The s stock definitely feels a little more dated than you’d expect given its age

[@mgml]

Noise on the Jubilee line! OMG! Earplugs are definitely required especially from Baker St' going south. I love the looks on what are obviously tourists faces when come into Bond St'

[@MaidaValeTom]

Whereas I normally feel your points are very well thought out and put across, With this video, it's just not frankly possible. Funding issues aside, There simply wouldn't be the staffing resources or operational leeway to be able to implement most of these things. A huge project like bank would (as it did with the Northern line) result in a large-scale line closure for multiple months, which significantly decreases passenger satisfaction. Most of these things would also require a complete rebuild of most of the current infrastructure rather than just an upgrade or a retrofit as you put it. With the stations outside of Central London on the Elizabeth line not being level boarding, This simply wouldn't have been physically possible either (again, even with funding aside). A huge percentage of platforms outside Zone 1 are shared with other rail services, with GWR operating a stopping service covering the entire Western section between Paddington and Reading with their mainline stock hourly throughout the night. Level boarding upgrades for Elizabeth line stock would just worsen the situation for other stock.

[@Calum_S]

I'd never really noticed how bad the air quality is on the tube until I was went back to London this summer. It looked like the stations had ben filled with smoke.

[@jimbrankin9874]

Working from home changed everything. We will have to wait for things to settle down before we decide whether to invest in transit, in London and in other cities.

[@ralphzechendorf1644]

Just came back from London, and we used the EL very often indeed, but also all kinds of other trains (tube, circle, jubilee, DLR, Thameslink). It's absolutely true that we could actually SEE the air in the Central Line... horrible :s EL is awesome, but of course only if you're supposed to be close to a station :) Unfortunately, we experienced delays and irregular services at times.

[@RMTransit]

Being able to see the air is concerning😅

[@Tobberz]

@@RMTransit Some stations on the Central Line are *really* bad for the haze.

[@fbiopenup6534]

Yeah as a Londoner I despise the Central line from the bottom of my heart. I usually used it for the Stratford-Whitechapel trek, every single trip I progressively became more deaf💀

[@timw.8452]

Agreed, the Victoria line ticks all boxes for being very noisy, hot and crowded, but the Central line Line is the only one I'll actively try to avoid. Thankfully the Liz line usually makes it easy. @@fbiopenup6534

[@RendererEP]

​​@@fbiopenup6534Central line has nothing on the Jubilee line between canning town and canada water. It made my mother's tinitus worse

[@NeoCawte]

I live in near the end of the northern line and sadly almost never get to use the Elizabeth line, I only really use it to go to Heathrow or Canary Wharf.

[@RMTransit]

Ah, thems the brakes

[@RAILEXCELLENCE2011]

Nice video as always.😊

[@RMTransit]

Thank you! 😃

[@fuzzynutter8344]

The Underground's infrastructure could, and should, be at a standard that is close to the Elizabeth Line's. But the cost in doing so would be astronomical. For example, the screeching noises on some sections of the network are due to tight curves; only realligning the track will almost completely eliminate that problem. TfL continues to upgrade and improve the Underground, but it'll take years to get the whole network to a standard that will be considered acceptable, unless a huge amount of ring fenced funding becomes available to shorten lead times. But yes, upgrades are needed.

[@DavidKnowles0]

more sound proofing inside the trains themselves may be a cheaper alternatives to track realignment.

[@Alexander_C69]

@@DavidKnowles0 There is not a lot of space to put sound proofing in the body of the train and making the windows thicker is a no-go due to how much they would weigh.

[@TamilLad24]

I’ve been on the Elizabeth Line from Ealing Broadway to Stratford direct service and it took about 30 mins and it’s quicker than central line. Wow

[@christopherwaller2798]

One factor is that the Elizabeth line offers step free access (albeit not level boarding everywhere due to different platform heights outside the core section), whereas the Tube overall is pretty woeful for wheelchair access - and this poor access also affects ambulant people with mobility problems, parents with pushchairs, tourists with luggage, etc. So many tube stations with escalators or even with lifts still require further stairs to reach platform level!

[@randomchannelrandomvideos]

The Northern line, (southbound), brings a lot of noise I enjoy hearing, and definitely cancels out my noise cancelling mode on my noise cancelling headphones. The tunnels for southbound trains between Moorgate and Borough are extremely loud, making it the most loudest part of the Underground I think.

[@caramelldansen2204]

Would you ever consider visiting smaller, more flawed (underfunded) metro systems in Britain? That would be interesting I think, not only getting more eyes on them (hopefully the attention will help even a little for advocacy) but also a sorely-needed _critical_ eye, both of which I find almost always get directed at London - for better and for worse... My local is Merseyrail, so I'm obviously very biased as to which you should consider visiting! :D

[@holnrew]

Just videos looking at Merseyrail and the Tyne and Wear Metro would be nice. I think he's getting round to those though.

[@caramelldansen2204]

@@holnrew Fingers crossed!! Merseyrail has a lot to learn from T&W! People seem to hyper-focus on what the network _has,_ but seemingly never what it _doesn't have._ Merseyrail's suburban coverage in Liverpool sucks, especially in the east and south of the city _(reinstate the bloody Extension line!!!!),_ its intercity connections suck too (except Southport and Chester, of course), it has an OLE electrified track right through the south of the city but refuses to use it, and its refusal to build the BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS rail connection from that southern track directly into the airport (between the airport and Hale). I have a Google maps doodle describing what I mean, but comments with links in them almost always get destroyed so idk how to share it.

[@RMTransit]

@@holnrew precisely I will get there eventually I just need more footage etc.

[@bwhugul]

​@@RMTransitboth Merseyrail and Tyne & Wear Metro are (or will very soon be) all level boarding. You might just get to see the old Class 507s and 508s on Merseyrail before they're withdrawn. Both networks old trains date from the same period, 1978-81. Tyne & Wear use City Train type stock, so were level boarding from the beginning. Merseyrail are main line. I now view Merseyrail as superior, because its infrastructure means its trains can be main line capable for at least 75 mph. Level boarding could have been achieved on the main line almost 50 years ago if the short coaches and 915 mm floor height had been adopted. The S Stock in London does this, without Jacobs bogies!

[@Nico_M.]

I love the part around 7:35 where a kid touches every armrest of the bench, and a few seconds later another kid does the same.

[@Mr_Face_Smoke]

I am quite fond of the loud noises! They are some of my favourite things about the underground, I feel like it's an essential part!

[@henrybn14ar]

London needs a land value tax to fund its infrastructure.

[@hublanderuk]

You talked about signal upgrades and on Saturday 11th November 2023 Jubilee Line and all subsurface lines were closed for signal upgrade testing. So the signals I guess are now there for further upgrades on the system. Also on the Jubilee line between Westminster and Canning Town you can use your phone underground so I hope they expand this so no Free WIFI needed.

[@Gideonsmythe]

Reece, if you get time during this or the next visit to the UK I can recommend a ride out to rural East Anglia on one of Greater Anglia's brilliant low-floor Class 745s and the rural version, the bi-mode Class 755s. The Stadler Flirts have transformed the passenger experience. Greater Anglia replaced its entire fleet with commuter duties going to Class 720s which are long-distance, high capacity versions of the Crossrail trains.

[@vjaska]

One of the issues with the new Bank southbound platform is the new sections of tunnel either side are actually much louder than the older tunnels so whilst the obvious capacity benefit has been provided, the noise issue isn't been taken seriously. I believe, though unsure, that it's actualyl certain sections of tunnel/track rather than the trains that are the issue as almost every line has a particular section of straightish track that's far louder than should be. The UK has always been cheap skates when it comes to transport so sadly, your well thought out ideas won't probably happen for decades, if at all

[@JagoHazzard]

Many thanks for the shout-out!

[@andrewreynolds4949]

Something of note, there is an active project to resignal the majority of the subsurface system, called the 4LM Project. Modern CBTC is being installed. The reliability of the Elizabeth Line itself should improve once the extension of the core is completed to the new Old Oak Common station. If I understand correctly, the turnback sidings that will be built as part of the stations will mean the (rather problematic) auto-reverse function will no longer be needed at Paddington, as all trains will run through to OOC. One of the things that makes implementing level boarding difficult is the discrepancy in heights between deep level, subsurface, and mainline trains. They share platforms in a number of places, which can leave large steps for each of them. They did, as part of the 4LM Project, recently segregate part of the District and Piccadilly lines to reduce that problem, but that can’t always be done.

[@RMTransit]

4LM is running slow!

[@andrewreynolds4949]

@@RMTransit They have had problems with integration, but last I heard work is going well on the Metropolitan Line sections now. Apparently the biggest problem at the moment is where it interfaces with the Jubilee Line system

[@Rocksock531]

Great video

[@dps140]

Glad you mentioned the horrible noise. In addition to an assembly-line updating of the stations, also replacing the tracks and wheels is necessary to deal with the noise on those few old lines. I rode it once and literally had to stop the conversation I was having because despite yelling, we couldn't hear each other.

[@lik7953]

unfortunately, TfL has a ton of financial issues (not helped by politics and the economy), and Im concerned that not enough will be done to improve the system

[@thetransporthub]

regarding level boarding, the national standard platform height is 915mm above railhead. Stadler have made several trains that have a floor height of 915mm so level boarding is possible at the vast majority of stations without any station infrastructure works. The Lizzy line core platforms are higher than 915mm, so non standard (crazy!). This means the above ground sections can never have level boarding as platforms shared with 'regular' trains can't be above 915mm for loading gauging issues. The 345s should have been built like the Stadler trains and the core platforms at the standard height, then the whole line would be fully step free from street to train!

[@bwhugul]

I think the solution is to insert shorter Jacobs bogie vehicles to cover the middle group of 9 doorways. On the central section the 9 PSDs would need replacing with lower level ones, but the vast bulk of the Class 345 vehicles and PSDs could remain untouched whilst everyone who needs it gets to have a seamless journey if they use the middle portion.

[@ricktownend9144]

That's really thought-provoking: I hadn't seen the existing underground lines as having problems which have been solved on the Elizabeth line - but you are right: they do! Practically, until the politicians - and in particular, the Treasury - can see the 'business case' for spending money, they won't spend it. After all, they haven't spent it during the last few years since it's been obvious that a massive transfer of travel from cars to transit has been an urgent element of the fight against global warming (though they did come up with funding for 'essential services' during the first wave or so of covid). But actually now that there are some actual figures for transfer of passengers from the Underground to the Elizabeth line, the investments that you highlight should clearly rebalance the whole picture.

[@Wrociem]

The Elizabeth line was a big improvement to my commute, with a faster commute and more comfortable ride but considering how much was spent on it and the delays on opening it it still has problems and delays. There have been too many times when the line is cancelled or there are massive delays due to signalling failures. I expect better performance. Some of their scheduling is also annoying.

[@BadByte]

Regarding wifi on the metro just copy Oslo. For fire safety reasons all of Oslo metro got cellphone coverage, Oslo Fire department demanded back in 2001 after a power outage that train drivers must be able to use their cellphones as a backup communications device in case of emergencies to get in touch with traffic dispatch.

[@RMTransit]

Wifi and cell service are different!

[@BadByte]

@@RMTransitMaybe so but we got data coverage as a result, first 3G then LTE and now 5G so in effect uninterrupted streaming (podcasts/KZbin/Insta/TikToc/etc) from point A to point B

[@ricequackers]

1. Yes, the S stock are due for a proper refurb. The trains are good and still quite new, but the upholstery is tired, the lighting is a rather dim yellow rather than bright white LEDs on more modern trains, and the air conditioning is nowhere near as good as that on the Class 700 Thameslink or Class 345 Elizabeth trains. 2. I think TfL have been rolling out CBTC signalling over the last few years on many of the lines, so they're already on top of that. 3. I'm not sure why, but TfL have been very reluctant to retrofit platform screen doors (in fact, I don't think they've ever retrofitted). I was expecting it on the newly built Battersea extension but was surprised to find no PSDs despite space being left for them and the Northern line already having CBTC.

[@sihollett]

There's no PSDs on the Northern line extension (nor the new platform at Bank) because the trains are not compatible with them. They have made provision for PSDs to be easily installed when new trains come along.

[@RMTransit]

The stock could be really nice if they were retrofitted

[@ricequackers]

@@sihollett Any idea what the incompatibility is? It's surprising to me as the trains are newer and a bit more advanced than the Jubilee line trains (better motors+inverters and air suspension).

[@sihollett]

@@ricequackers The '95 stock on the Northern line is not newer than the '96 stock on the Jubilee line. They were designed in parallel and entered service about the same time. Presumably, just as some things like suspension are more advanced on the '95 due to the slightly different brief (twistier line), it's the same with the '96 - certainly PSD compatibility was something part of the '96 stock's brief, but not in the '95 stock's. PS: The motors are identical - the difference is the inverters, with the '95 stock's being a newer method of converting DC into AC.

[@darynvoss7883]

TBH I didn't know the Elizabeth Line was not part of the Underground until you mentioned it.

[@sihollett]

And that is as it should be. Despite the best efforts of railfans to make the petty distinctions clear (creating more confusion), for almost everyone there is almost no difference people merely travelling, rather than running the railway, actually need to know. There's a few fare anomalies - but the much higher single fares to'/from Heathrow vs the tube and Oyster not being valid on the western part of the line, are the only ones that aren't really niche.

[@RMTransit]

That’s to be expected, it’s fully integrated into the system

[@arwelp]

Nope, it’s part of National Rail. As a retired former management-grade staff (actually I was a programmer in the BR IT department, but they had to grade us as management in order to pay a competitive salary - I remember the National Payroll System had to be modified in 1980 so the highest-graded managers could be paid more than £9999 a year! (I was on about £4000 a year then)) on BR (1979-made redundant in 2002) I still have a regional status (free) pass for the old London Midland Region, which is also valid between Paddington and Whitechapel on the EL.

[@sihollett]

@@arwelp no it's not part of NR, just as it isn't part of the tube. It's way more complex than that. Legally, parts are NR, parts are de facto tube (though it's technically something different). Functionally, it tries to straddle both and there's some odd (and niche) fare stuff due to that. Most passenger confusion, however, is about whether or not they can treat it as a tube line or not - and more specifically North Americans wondering whether they are charged extra like they would be for the LIRR/similar back home. The answer is that they can, and should, for the most part (Heathrow is the exception thanks to HAL's access fees), treat it like it's part of the tube as they won't be charged extra.

[@Alexander_C69]

​@@sihollett The Elizabeth Line has nothing to do with the Tube other than some Elizabeth Line stations also serve Underground lines, the Elizabeth Line infrastructure that is not owned by Network Rail is owned by Rail for London (Infrastructure) Limited which is a TFL subsidiary that is completely unrelated to London Underground Limited, Oyster card (Cubic Corporation) and the Elizabeth line trains (MTR) are operated by transportation corporations not owned by TFL. Ticketing on the Elizabeth Line works in similar ways as Overground and National Rail trains, within TfL fare zones mode specific rules and fares apply, outside the fare zones you have to buy a ticket for that part of the journey.

[@mdhazeldine]

I literally just came home from a day at work in London where I used the Northern Line. I 200% agree with all your complaints, wishes and ideas. The sound and heat are ridiculous. I actively avoid the Central Line because of the heat and sometimes go out of my way to take the Liz line instead. It's so smooth, quiet and cool in comparison. Sadly we have a government that thinks we are a nation of drivers, and as such, we should fund road projects and make trains pay for themselves. Until we have a general election and kick them out, I don't think any of your ideas will happen. Even if (or probably when) Labour win, I'm not currently convinced they'll make big scale changes. I hope I'm wrong.

[@conquistadorito]

4:26 "New New Tube for London Tube Trains" Yeah, a bit of a mouthful.

[@RMTransit]

Tube tube new new train London train train

[@jack2453]

For lots of Londoners the E line is irrelevant. I live on the Victoria line and it is two changes just to get on - and it doesn't really go anywhere I want to go.

[@brianparker663]

Spot on! I've just made much the same point from a NW London point-of-view. Lovely for those in the east no doubt.

[@AndrewG1989]

I have been on the Elizabeth Line after it first opened last year and the Class 345 trains are very nice. Very easy convenient journey if you are coming from East Anglia via changing at Shenfield or from the West of England via changing at Reading.

[@brightondude9327]

Although I go up to London a lot from Brighton where I live in fact I have yet to use the Liz line. My overland train arrives at Victoria then depending where I'm going I'm using the tube for a few stops in some direction or other, but that's it. When I go to Heathrow I use the District and Piccadilly lines as I always have done. However I think I do benefit from the Liz Line because it reduces traffic on the tube system.

[@ghamerons6287]

Like your points though for sound, this is probably the last thing to be fixed, as the problem lies in how sharp some corners are in the tube as they had to follow the road. So noise will probably always be a problem on old line unless a complete overhaul happens to these lines

[@thenerd6192]

Wait, Bank’s been almost unusable for the better part of a decade, and you want to do 20 such projects simultaneously!?

[@WhatColourIsYourBugatti_]

Never heard of anyone connecting to WiFi on the Elizabeth line successfully

[@dalek3086]

read a book instead

[@xander1052]

In fairness, there are obvious cases where the Underground is more convenient. For my commute to Heathrow, the additional £5 charge on the Liz line is cost prohibitive for day to day workers, while taking the picadilly line for me is £1.25 each way and gets me closer to my home. For transfer between terminals though it really depends on whether if I am airside or landside, with Liz being best landside and the transfer buses being best for airside. Definitely do agree to upgrading stations. holy hell does my local station need a renovation (the canopy has paint flaking off and rust is everywhere, it's also one of the least accessible above ground stations in West London)

[@ballyhigh11]

Do you work directly for HA? If so I believe they are going to waive the 5 pound surcharge for their employees

[@turboguy99]

Big up ealing 🤩

[@nicolasblume1046]

The biggest mistake for the Elisabeth Line was the number of doors: with such long train cars there should have been 4 doors per side instead of 3. Even the S-Bahn class 420 from the 70s has 4 per side for comparison. And the newest S-Bahn trains have a similar door spacing (3 per side, but with shorter cars)

[@corinheathcote9868]

I love the sound of the Underground, it's the heart and sound of London

[@DynamicalisBlue]

Love the Elizabeth Line but it took far too many decades for something that was a rather small underground extension to an already existing rail network. The government just takes the piss.

[@mst4309]

I’ve constantly found myself back on the Elizabeth line on various journeys. It’s very busy. Very useful. But very long walks to transfer and even just to get to the station - understandable but annoying. The line does significantly boost connectivity across London, but given it’s complicated service patterns the wayfinding information is just inadequate for all the tourists in London. A chronic problem across TfL as if they don’t know London gets a lot of visitors. My biggest problem with it is that Reading to Paddington takes a long time but the GWR stopping services no longer stop at Hayes & Harlington or Ealing Broadway so to make these important connections from the west you can only sit for an hour on the purple train, while the GWR services are very quiet

[@sihollett]

It's service patterns aren't that complex - a few stations (that tourists are unlikely to go to - not least because not many people are likely to go to them) are skipped by trains to certain destinations. The wayfinding tells you what stations the trains will stop at and what ones are missed, ditto the announcements - while it could be better, it's not inadequate.

[@RMTransit]

@@sihollett I don’t know about that, more than once travelling on the line I’ve seen a Londoner confused about what stations a train is stopping at.

[@sihollett]

@@RMTransit I've seen people get on trains going to the wrong branch panic a little later when the train takes the branch they didn't want, despite it being clearly displayed and announced where the train is going, and yet they did it. It's a user problem, not a signage problem. See also the 'passenger arrives in London at Kings Cross/St Pancras, gets on the wrong Victoria line platform because of the right-hand-running, crosses over at the next station (Highbury & Islington) to the other side of the island ends up going even further away from where they wanted'. That Geoff talked about in the Northern City Line video you two did. Everything there is well signed, and the second train is very noticeably different to the first so should also alert people to the fact they aren't u-turning. But somehow it's a thing!

[@john_smith1471]

I think the Bakerloo line tube stock has the oldest most retro looking interior, but I like it, the subdued period moquette upholstery and some traditional transverse seating, also the round mechanical vents in the ceiling although the cars are still stifling hot in heatwave weather.

[@matthewgoodsell480]

As a powerchair user, I just think that at least so much of the Lizzie line is step free compared to the rest of the tube. As correctly pointed out in thee video, it's not perfect especially outside of central London, but it's far better than many older lines. Before it does anything else, TFL's next project should be to make all the tube system accessible.

[@joeford2717]

They are doing, Step Free Access is a major programme for TfL across the network. Unfortunately though designing and building a programme of works around a fully operational station takes a lot of time

[@a1white]

Earplugs are needed on the Jubilee line. I use it quite regularly and there are some sections where the screeching volume is insanely loud

[@ivyl3146]

California drone here, can we appreciate the AMAZING wayfinding screens on the BART system? I mean, its not the best service but hey, our new trains literally screens that show the entire system and what train you are on. Gotta love it even if its small, and as a near daily user of BART, this helps me out a TON at night when im tired and get on the wrong train. Also, recently the BART lines got color names! Just reply to me for pics or videos, im happy to provide some with my (shitty S9) camera.

[@fuzzynutter8344]

In a way, Thameslink predated the Elizabeth Line as a concept with both services being similar; a combination of commuter and surburban services, RER style.

[@c0wqu3u31at3r]

The issue I have with Thameslink is off peak services. From where I am in Catford we get 2 tph off peak and they terminate at Blackfriars. 4 tph through trains would be so much more convenient

[@user-lp5wb2rb3v]

London Bridge to St pancras is 14minutes, thats incredibly slow imo, it should be 10m, and more frequent maybe 24tph/12 tph @@c0wqu3u31at3r

[@uhhhmm1]

It would be nice to see some of the zoning development along the lines as well. Especially in London! It's an extremely populated city so seeing who/where/what are provided services would be fun and interesting

[@sihollett]

Zoning isn't a concept in the UK.

[@RMTransit]

Seems to be a lot of new development around London!

[@rogersexton7857]

Unfortunately a lot of land near stations at the western end of Elizabeth line has been designated Green Belt. That means the land cannot be developed,

[@christopherwaller2798]

The UK doesn't have zoning - we have a 'discretionary' planning system where decisions are based on a policy framework. However, the Elizabeth line has growth corridors designated in the London Plan and in individual borough's Local Plans. Therefore most of the stations are seeing some kind of growth around them, especially where they are in existing town centres.

[@DavidKnowles0]

or on the whims of councillors who will ignore the framework because most can't afford the cost of a legal challenge. @@christopherwaller2798

[@moshedayl3064]

Wait, does Reece live in London now? I thought he was still in Toronto

[@Mgameing123]

Not gonna lie. I like how loud and screechy the tube is. It makes you feel like your going VERY fast!

[@KittyLovesFerries]

I think the Elizabeth Line is incredibly useful. I've been on it just at the beginning of rush hour and the train was busy, no seats wjere available but it wasn't packed because of the space. I think it's perfect.

[@benjibatch]

As someone that lives in south London, we need more tubes in south London, when it comes to unbearable screeching, you clearly haven’t been on the Victoria if you think the jubilee is bad, insulation and the open windows at the end of the carriages are the reason the screeching is so loud

[@andrewwoodgate3769]

Your comments are fair. Regarding funding, it may be worth pointing out that TfL was hard-hit both by the pandemic, but also by unnecessary, ideological attacks from the UK Tory Government on a Labour-run city council.

[@ralphzechendorf1644]

Haha, reading comments here makes me realize how crappy Brussels is :(:(:( When we were in London last week, I was amazed by how little noise all these underground trains make (piccadilly, central, circle, jubiliee, elizabeth) and how smooth the ride is. And now I realize some people here find the old lines "noisy" or even "bad for hearing" ???? Come to Brussels, you'll hear and feel what "bad" really is then :D

[@RMTransit]

It wasn’t my experience that Brussels was louder than London!

[@LeZylox]

Most of these Problems wouldn't exist if the trains were above ground monorails.

[@simonbennett9687]

Thank you for using Crossrail as a mode name. If we all keep at it TfL will realise that’s what it should be.

[@isaacramsay7889]

Elizabeth Line is probably the worst name I've ever seen for a transport link

[@willx9352]

My mother had a question for people who complain about what is already a pretty good situation: do you want portholes in your coffin?

[@cameronallan5624]

In reference to the lack of level boarding on non-core Elizabeth line stations there is a story. In 2011 the UK gov we’re looking for a train manufacturer for the Thameslink program. They selected Siemens (not Bombardier) despite bombardier having a factory in Derby. As a result of the Siemens decision the trains were built in Germany. This became very political as the UK government were seen to not be supporting UK industry. So fast forward to the Crossrail project. The UK gov wanted to select Bombardier but at the time Bombardier did not have a low boarding train design. This is in contrast to the Swiss manufacturer Stadler - see 777 and 745 trains. As a result Crossrail core platforms were built to provide level boarding to the Bombardier (now Alston) train height. The only way to fix it is either raise the track (at massive expense) in the core and then use low boarding trains. You can’t raise the platforms on the non-core stations because then other trains won’t fit.

[@butler1233]

If Reece wants ear shattering pain, he should try northern line central branches or the shakerloo line

[@user-lp5wb2rb3v]

north greenwixh enters the chat

[@tlantis]

My in-town commute from Marylebone to Moorgate can either be walk to Baker Street to pick up a direct Hammercircopolitan OR two stops on the Bakerloo to Paddington and then on the Liz to the Liverpool Street/Moorgate complex. It’s actually fairly even which I use. With the latter, the heat and screeching 90° bend into Paddington on the decrepit Bakerloo stock is at least only for 3 minutes, and the air quality and smooth ride on the 345s makes up for it. And you avoid any inclement weather. But the walks and journey time are longer overall by about 4-5 minutes, and you do start to notice that on a regular commute. The S stock is noisier than the Liz but nothing like the deep tubes, and if you’re only on for 12-15 minutes, the equation feels closer.

[@Peter-mj6lz]

The problem with door layouts is that the Elizabeth line has much longer carriages than the tube due to the higher speeds and straighter tracks it uses. I would say for future Crossrail and Overground stock they need to make them similar to the tube in terms of providing more user friendly wayfinding ways yet they can make London underground trains look a bit more higher quality like the Elizabeth Line. More doors per carriage on future overground stock as well.

[@MervynPartin]

Regarding level boarding, the standard platform height above rail level in the UK is 915mm. Regrettably, somebody decided to make the train floors and platform heights on Crossrail at 1100mm so level boarding beyond the central section was doomed at the drawing board, but the whole organisation was a shambles, anyway, so I'm not surprised.

[@rosiefay7283]

As someone who since the 1980s has needed to travel into and through London, the Elizabeth Line is the best thing to happen to travel within London in that time. There is good signage in both the Elizabeth Line stations and the stations they interchange with. And the Elizabeth Line is a good compromise: fewer stops than the Tube (and thus faster), but stops at useful interchange stations such as Stratford, Liverpool St, Farringdon and Paddington.

[@DamianLloveda]

Learnings is not a word. 'Lessons'

[@photoisca7386]

One reason I have for avoiding the Underground, especially the deep-level trains, is the noise. I'm sure the rail noise is greater now than it was in the 1960's.

[@Mat-eq8mk]

I commute on national rail into Paddington and work next to Tottenham Court Road station so for me, the Elizabeth Line is superb. The only thing that baffles me slightly is why the doors stay open for so long at Paddington. It's frustrating to board and sit there for what feels like minutes.

[@ashleyhamman]

The point about shrieking on the underground is something I had entirely forgotten. When I was over there for a month some years back Finsbury Park was the closest station, which meant I used the Victoria Line a lot, which gets incredibly loud at speed either side of Highbury and Islington. Thus after a few trips my go-to was the Picadilly when reasonable.

[@DavidIwanow]

Yep you are right the noise levels on some lines like the Central line is insane vs Elizabeth or even Overground

[@ClaudiaOfTheWorld]

we live on the rail network and usually would commute with train + tube. as soon as we tried the lizzy line we started taking the train to farringdon (further east than where we live) and using it to head west, walking to work from the nearest convenient stop. i would love to know if farringdon passenger numbers have increased, it always seems packed there now, but i didn’t spend much time there before the pandemic so it’s hard to compare with what’s a _return to “normal”_ and also this is coupled with frequent industrial action

[@SalmanMKC]

Elizabeth line is my favourite line now, way faster than the central :))

[@cliffwoodbury5319]

So after riding this what are your thoughts on a/the future project to build a simular line going north and south through London!

[@douglasgriffin694]

Hey Reese! Have you seen the new platform screen door (kind of) retrofits on the Sofia Metro in Bulgaria? It seems to be a really cheep and easy technology, although it’s probably missing some of the benefits you discussed

[@stavrosnanos1135]

What is the best method of train travel to get to the heavy metal festivals in the UK

[@johnmannion471]

The Central Line could definitely use some more stations in the east - Shoreditch or the Bow/Pudding Mill Lane area seem like obvious candidates

[@JCO1406]

A station was proposed in Shoreditch, but it would be too close to the Liverpool Street sidings, which is why they haven't gone ahead with it

[@Kris_96]

Air ventilation has always been on the table for TFL, it's not the money that's the problem, it's logistics. The underground is built over the city, meaning massive buildings aboveground that don't allow for easy access to big space for ventilation, so you have to do that through the building or find another way. 4G/5G is being implemented but it's slow due to how tiny the tunnels actually are, and lack of space for masts etc.

[@rogink]

I must confess I'd assumed the platform screens were there for safety, but yeah, I get the point about noise. That said, they do add a rather anodyne feature to Tube stations. Waiting for the next train I tend to scan the billboards opposite, and even the line route maps if I'm unfamiliar with the station/destination. Smoked glass doesn't do it for me!