The English Aesthetic Part 2 | It's Only Rock n Roll But I Like It

[@dennismason3740]

I am 70 years old and I have lived what most YT viewers would call "crippling impoverishment" for 7 decades, including 6 years un-housed, eating from trash receptacles and playing mandolin in front of the Safeway Market for 3 bucks a night. 3 bucks would buy a lot in 1980. Many folk worldwide have to decide between rent and food. I am here to represent the odd rocker who doesn't let impoverishment trash the music. The U.S. Federal Gov't sent us checks in 2020, hence the laptop. Thank you Andrew for ACKNOWLEDGING "poor people", who are horribly represented online. That's one reason I'm here. I taught myself to be my favorite guitar player. Yes, it took a long time. Also, thanks for the heads up on Fawlty.

[@Alan-p4i7l]

Brilliant essay Andy and no notes! Gave me llots to think about and I'm 64 years old..

[@onsenkuma1979]

Lovely rant, Andy, and absolutly spot on. When the left abandoned the working class toward the end of the '80s to embrace identity politics, it didn't 'cede' that territory to anyone. In fact, by the mid-'90s NONE of the traditionally left of centre parties - Labour in the UK, the Democrats in the US, the Liberal and NDP parties in Canada - gave a damn about the working class anymore, as neoliberal 'outsourcing' for easy profit under the banner of the 'global economy' put the nails in the coffin of the labour union movement. What we've seen emerge in the West during the last decade or so is the scapegoating of the working class as the root source of all we're now constantly told is illing us: racism, fascism, racism, nazism, racism, addiction, (whatever)phobia, racism, climate change, racism...(did I forget to mention 'racism')? One of the things this channel can serve to remind all who take up your invitation to follow the musical journey is this: if politics is an expression of humanity at it's absolute nadir, then creativity is an expression of humanity at its absolute zenith. Cheers...

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Love this comment!!!!

[@motherlesschild102]

I agree that identity politics has been picked up by the Elites (they didn't invent it) and WEAPONIZED. Revolution from the top down-by a self appointed/anointed "vanguard' Divide and rule. Distract with all this "pronoun-ism" (not to mention the ENDLESS petty distractions of internet "culture") - and somehow there's no time to look at the 1%- or rather, the 100th percent of the 1%. Or the top 10 largest corporations. Interesting that this happened SO MUCH since the Occupy movement/Bernie Sanders having so much success as a Presidential candidate-to give it a US spin.

[@tonyclayton6975]

Was going to post something similar but you saved me the effort. I probably wouldn’t have put it anywhere near a well. I would just push back on a couple of things. It was the middle class, now the professional managerial class that vacated the left, including me for a time. I fell for the New Labour BS. So the left was decimated and replaced by the faux liberal identity politics weaponised by the establishment to keep down the working class, resulting in the extraction of wealth ever upwards. The second thing would be Andy’s assertion that the liberal democratic governments oppose the murder and subjugation of people. It may be the case in their own countries but not in terms of the exploitation of global South countries.

[@0L44R5]

Born 1967 in Sweden, brought up on English culture (music, literatire, TV -- not dance and film, and unfortunately aldo on your boring football); culturally americanized in the mid 80's, then I found French culture, and after that German, and on to bits and pieces of the rest of the European culture. Now I'm very happy you have brought me back to England and made me remember it all. I first saw your thing on Bill Laswell, and really liked as well your take on music and culture, as your way of thinking. Now I try to watch all of your videos. Thank you!

[@imanihekima1659]

Bonzo Dog Band "Rawlinson End" - quirky, complex and child-like simplicity at the same time, and fully embodies the English aesthetic as you've described.

[@progperljungman8218]

Never heard them before. Thanks mate!

[@rockforms]

So glad I found your channel, Andy. You’re able to express ideas many of us believe but don’t know how to articulate, resulting in many “Yes! That’s right!” moments. Cheers

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Welcome aboard!

[@mazieways]

I agree with you Andy and relate to the shift across the world losing touch with true balanced humanity. When I was gifted Colour of Spring by Talk Talk in the 80’s, that passionate creativity and humanist aesthetic saved my life…. I listened to it every evening and it inspired me on every level - the love of nature and questioning of things allowed me to get out of bad job and relationship and recreate my life…

[@JoshAshConceptArt]

I cannot stress enough how fantastic this video was!

[@yinoveryang4246]

Andy I've recently been catching up on some of these older videos. This is one of your best. Agree with everything you're saying in every part this one, with no disagreements. You're like that guy in the pub who natters on a bit, but has a few words of wisdom. This one definitely makes you see things more clearly.

[@iangelling]

Heads , Hands and Feet. Chas’s history is entwined in the the history of English blues rock. God bless him, he was there from the start.

[@MrMaynardWR]

Very thoughtful and appreciate your honesty and willingness to question orthodoxy

[@pkats9093]

Andy Edwards for president! Fascinating stuff, spot on in my opinion. Thank you Andy!

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@richardsutton01]

I used to listen with my Dad to his records in the 1950's and 60's. His favourite jazz musician was Satchmo, as you might expect, but his favourite British jazz combos were Ken Colyer's various jazz bands. These bands included people like Lonnie Donegan and Humphrey Littleton, as you mentioned, but also British stars such as Chris Barber, Acker Bilk, George Melly, etc. You could argue that Ken was one of the founders of the British jazz movement, not least because he learned his chops actually playing with the originals in New Orleans before he was deported, but his name is largely now forgotten. RIP Ken.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I think it was Ken C and Chris B that brought over Muddy Waters to the UK, pretty much starting the UK blues boom

[@robertjoy4846]

Really enjoyed this talk.

[@evernautical]

Wonderful Andy - very insightful.

[@kzustang]

Excellent discussion. Glad you champion this kind of balance. It is also what makes prog great. It's again, this balance. Thank you.

[@michaelfavreau7617]

You are a wise man Andy. This story of the English Aesthetic is wonderfully laid out and very well thought out. The artistic portion is great and the political portion makes me worry about our future. And over the last 10 years or so, all our " leaders " have only given me reason to worry. It`s a good thing John Lennon isn`t around to see all the work he had done wiped away.

[@snirge]

Love this -- really made me think

[@seriousoldman8997]

I'mm 66! ( shouts at clouds) and saw Mahavishnu Orchestra's UK debut at the Crystal Palace Bowl , an all- dayer with Yes at the tender age of 15. Saw Genesis at Charlton FC and Drury Lane circa Foxtrot period. Saw Weather Report, Shakti and the George Duke Billy Chobham ban all together FOR A QUID! Songs for Swingin ' Sellers, The Rebel, Hendrix via Bactrack samplers,The Move, The Kinks,etc ad nauseum. This is like joining The Last of the Summer Proggers. Your rant through to the end is awesome. Before the ravers, don't forget the destruction of the New Age Travellers which was just as politically and culturally axiomatic ( blimey, you' ve got me going off on one now). Avid fan of this channel ( retired woodwind musician taking me into all of the expanded areas that you would have guessed) just expressing my thanks once again as logistics and age have taken me away from the friends ,musicians and passive musicians that have made my life so rewarding. The only stimulants I'm on are tea and Rich Tea biscuits. Love and Jammy Dodgers.

[@mikeb3268]

A bit late, but I enjoyed that read!

[@adrianpaulwynne]

Brilliantly insightful. Thanks for sharing

[@elbib2446]

chas hodges was bass player in country rock band heads,hands and feet,with albert lee on guitar,early 70s,long before chas and dave

[@Alan-p4i7l]

Brilliant essay.Gave me plenty to think about and im 64..

[@tommonk7651]

As an American who has really begun paying attention to what happens in Great Britain since Brexit, I am astounded at how people could be made to think that pulling away from the rest of Europe was a good idea. It's certainly not good for musicians. It seems there is a growing gulf between the classes. Here in the US, huge amounts of money have been taken away from the arts in schools. It has been having and will continue to have a huge impact on the arts. I don't know how anyone could think the right would take care of anyone but themselves.... My idea of the English aesthetic is the ability and willingness to take the piss out of everybody and everything. Nothing is sacred....

[@lyndoncmp5751]

"I am astounded at how people could be made to think that pulling away from the rest of Europe was a good idea." Britain was only with Europe for a few decades. I.e a brief history in time. The status quo has been reestablished. Back to normal now.

[@tommonk7651]

@@lyndoncmp5751 Yep, centuries of warfare and hatred is the history between the rest of Europe and Great Britain. NATO and the EU have done a lot to avoid those kinds of conflicts. It's not much of an argument that Great Britain has returned to the status quo. Change is inevitable. Without geopolitical change, there would be no United States, for example. We would still be part of the British Empire, which also no longer exists. I observe no argument from you as to why it is wise to leave the EU. I pay attention. The British economy is struggling, and has been struggling since 2016. And the Northern Ireland Protocol looks like a step back toward the EU. GB left the strongest trading partnership in the world to go its own way and has been unable to reach the kind of trade agreements it left behind. Yep, things are just going swimmingly.... And what does GB gain by leaving? Some amorphous amount of sovereignty that it already had to begin with....

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@@tommonk7651 Pointless arguing with somebody who hasn't got a clue. Stick to American affairs not British.

[@tommonk7651]

@@lyndoncmp5751 So, you haven't got an argument then. Duly noted. You Brexiteers sound an awful lot like the MAGAts that plague our politics with their idiotic "Make America Great Again" nonsense. They have no reasonable arguments either.

[@imanihekima1659]

I didn't vote in the referendum but I suspect that musicians would have been very low in the priorities of those who voted to leave. That is, if they were considered at all - which wouldn't be new! I can understand people not wanting to be controlled by an outside body where they have little say in the decisions. Whether people voted to stay or leave, one thing that can be agreed upon is that touring Europe is far more challenging for musicians that don't have affluence behind them.

[@dalewalker7368]

Very interesting monologue Andy and I think I get the point your trying to make, especially towards the end when you introduced some political points of view into the converstion. But I think politicswere always a part of English Easthetics. Take the 50's for example, straight after WW2 the old guard said"Well that's it we won the war now let's get back to the way things were" Oh no ssid mister man and women in the street, "We've just fought your bloody war for you, if you the ruling class think we are going to be surfs again, you can go and poke it. Hence the common people bringing in new ideas, adopting and embracing new music forms and kids going to art school, demanding the right think while still embracing our Englishness and our eccentricities and of course when the 60's came and brought with it the cultural revolution (by the way I was mod) this was the first time the young generation was in charge. Let's face it, we are a nation of eccentrics, I think it's part of our island mentality, but you are correct that is being eroded by what I call the woke war and this war is inhibiting our freedom to think, speak and act and if it persists then it will have a devastating effect on our creativity, on our kids creativity and personally I think it comes from certain sections of the left and embraced by the privalidged right who can use it to control. I do hope we are on the same page because I have 3 grandsons and I want them to grow up not afraid to to persue any artistic challenge they feel so inclined to take, I want them to be free thinkers not working at the ministry of silly walks!!!

[@elaineandjohn9599]

Reminds us of The Clash song Something about England. We’ve said it before that the words English and Eccentric just belong together.

[@arnaudb.7669]

Thanks for being so articulate.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I try...I talk fast and jumble my words too....

[@arnaudb.7669]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer it's perfect!

[@douglasanderson8636]

He mentioned the Incredible String Band ! yay.

[@johnclarke851]

This is wonderful. I enjoy the way you lay this out and in a way that’s very kind and approachable. I’m a huge Kinks and XTC fan and I think the Village green album and Skylarking respectively very much are in line with the wonderful bucolic, pastoral aspects of that aesthetic.

[@lupcokotevski2907]

Keith Mansfield music from the 60's has been sampled by US hip hop artists like Madlib. Mansfield's production on Am I the Same Girl (1970) by Salena Jones is my favourite produced single song ever. The mixing and arrangement and vocal are perfect.

[@elaineandjohn9599]

You have obviously given much thought to your thesis. Even though you speak off the cuff we’re sure you have an least an outline you work from. So well presented.

[@dimitrispiobis8234]

Drumming, music,arts, history, social and political thinking,... Very interesting. Bravo!

[@Hartlor_Tayley]

Very thoughtful and insightful. Learned a lot. Thanks

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Hartlor_Tayley]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer people should learn this stuff. It enriches the experience to have understanding.

[@dennismason3740]

To play rock and roll in my neighborhood? It is allowed. Also a bit...dangerous. Let's just say it's good to start with a very strong groove unless it's Sunday sunrise, always the best time! Odd, that. So start with sunrise...step one.... Sandy Denny! Another fab Denny.

[@RobertVeasquez]

Part 2 is just an incredible as part 1. These things need to be said. Which is the problem, the elites have taken control of the media. A comment here suggested you do a part 3 about Balance. I agreee! Isn’t strange how there isn’t money for the arts, when we all know there is more than enough. It’s just diverted for other “interests.” Keep it up Andy. Better to have guilt expressing your mind than regret for keeping silent!

[@nigelelliott4901]

Amen to that (but with cheese & onion crisps). The Greatest Story Ever Told: the one about the Mersey beat boom & every subsequent wave it created...

[@paulcowham2095]

Agreed, although I was going to say salt and vinegar!

[@michelzinger]

Hello Andy ! Thank you for this masterful lesson in English aesthetics, especially among progressive rock. RAIN is an excellent example and I really appreciate Radio Silence which I received last week. But I live in France and thanks to Brexit, I had to pay 12 Euros (!) of customs tax which I would obviously have preferred to give to the musicians with pleasure. Such a waste !

[@TheJohnmb46]

That Peter Sellers track sounds like Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie which obviously came after!

[@lupcokotevski2907]

Peter and Gordon. Lady Godiva, Knight in Rusty Armour, Sunday for Tea. All charted in the USA in the late 1960's. Of course Peter Asher became a huge producer in America.

[@paulcowham2095]

Another great video Andy and not at all offensive (to me at least). I've been on a not dissimilar political journey since brexit, I still think I'm left wing but not in the same way as many on the left. Paul Embery wrote a very interesting book which talks about this called "despised: why the modern left loathes the working class". He is a fan of what he calls "blue labour" i.e. economically progressive and socially minded, but also championing traditionally conservative values such as family and country.

[@johannhauffman323]

Very interesting Andy. I can not believe Fawlty Towers is being edited. My brother gifted me the complete DVD set of all episodes.Wish I still had it, somehow it got away. I guess we must now wrap the population in bubble wrap. I find your views on the evolution of music not just interesting but coming from very informed opinions. Have you considered an angle, that the rise in British Rock is in part due to a vacuum created by a move away from the 50’s style R&R in the early 60’s American Rock? I noticed a rise in many diverse styles in American Music in the years after the heyday of 50’s R&R. Early in the 60’s we still had Jazz….. Louis Armstrong had a hit. We had a lot of Surf Music and vocal bands. (supremes, The Four Seasons, Barbara Streisand). There was also Roy Orbison, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Andy Williams and Dusty Springfield. As well as Ray Charles, Sonny and Cher, The Byrds and Bob Dylan. Oh and not to forget James Brown. My point is that in America the music moved away from the 50’s R&R while the British embraced it. Thankfully…. creating some of the most memorable music ever. Black Sabbath…… Led Zeppelin and so many others. While in the US the trend was towards something away from the visceral 50’s Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley. At the time of the Who and The Cream we had the Doors and the Animals. Then Buffalo Springfield, Jefferson Airplane/Hot Tuna , Grateful Dead , Mothers of Invention, and Jazz did not go away. I loved that you Brits zeroed in on American 50’s Music and refined it with your English Esthetic. I love Sabbath, Deep Purple to Crimson, and Sex Pistols tooo. I am just curious if you have considered the angle that a door was open to English Bands due to the diversity and a drift in the American Music Market in the 1960’s?

[@narosgmbh5916]

@Johann the open door is a good picture and btw. Dusty Springfield was British and also went through this door which was closed to american white singers. A white American soul singer would n ever have been accepted at that time. She was part of the first wave of the "British Invasion" Like the Beatles, which had credits to play R&R music as reminiscense to the american R@ R , which was discredited as a corrupt business late 50s early 60s. Check the 5 Songs they had in 1963 TOP1 - TOP5 in the charts. No english aesthetic in only 1 of the 5. When i think about the American Music Market in the 1960s and in the same time about the musicjournalism. especially the European, is it significant that the the two biggest slices of the music pie (soul and country) have been ignored.

[@johannhauffman323]

@@narosgmbh5916 thanks for your input Neros . Funny I always thought Dusty must have been from the US Midwest.

[@halcyon289]

47 seconds in : "Shall we go back to a little piece of English culture from pre - Rock era" I immediately thought of Lonnie Donegan :) Sellers has Lonnie's speech pattern down to a tee !

[@markspooner1224]

Were thinking of Chris Barber and Ken Colyer?

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

It was...my memory doesn't always kick in. I was alluding to this: www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/muddy-waters-first-uk-tour/

[@psychicdriver4229]

FOLKS! Are there any prog fans here who might like to see the Adrian Belew, Peter Murphy BOWIE tribute show in Atlanta 4/11... maybe get together for a beer before the show in Little Five Points ...just a thought. I suppose it's time I subscribed. Thanks for all your awesome work Andy!

[@deanjonasson6776]

Great job, Andy! It was fantastic to hear vintage Peter Sellers and have that "goon" humour put into context. Since you skillfully merged Part II and Part III of your presentation, perhaps a Coda listing 10 or 20 pieces that best illustrate "the English Aesthetic"?

[@mazieways]

One aspect I wonder about is music education and the place of music in British culture, it seems to me this must be somewhat responsible for so many bands developing their own sound against the odds (working class etc) and being able to do so at very young ages.

[@emiliovaldes1319]

I come from Cuba, living in Amsterdam for the last 30 years, and I could not agree more with you if I would try. I lived thru the days when you could go to jail for listening to the Beatles, or the Stones back home. I fled 30 years ago and never looked back, and could never comprehend the infatuation of a lot of artists with totalitarian regimes that would throw them in jail if they lived in those countries (Like one of my favorite 70's bands Henry Cow). Wokism, Identity Politics, Critical Race Throry and much of the Post Modern garbage, is nothing more than the hardcore marxist from yesteryear, trying to reinvent themselves. When I see the current cancel culture, and the rewriting of Roald Dahl, I am re living what I already went thru in Cuba, the rewriting of history, the destruction of works by musicians, actors, writers for not following the party rule. Cherish and fight for your freedom guys, because you do not want to live in the world I ran from. Next time you find yourself in Amsterdam give us shout! I would love to buy you a beer (or any other beverage) and engage in some conversation.

[@duncandomey8199]

2 very good rants. Englishman in NY... Breakfast in America... And did those feet in ancient time (Jerusalem)... Seven Pillars... SYBIL!!!!!!!!

[@203owen]

Hiya Andy. I've been watching lots of your vids, I really enjoy them. Something is bugging me. There seems to be no mention of the great Roy Harper. Have you got him down as a folkie and not much else? Robert must have told you about Roy. Not a peep about One Of Those Days In England? Please do a vid about Roy showing the full spectrum from Formby esque humour to galaxy spanning epics This guy is a great composer and songwriter with a superb voice. You must know this so why no mention of Roy? Is he not proggy enough?

[@klauswassermann8054]

Just came to thinking whether all that inclusive subversion can only happen in the kind and humourous manner you elaborate on so eloquently if (and only if) the class distinctions that get mocked are actually rock solid to the point that nobody really feels endangered in their social roles and positions.

[@timhewtson6212]

I think what you are getting into here is the English anti-aesthetic, or possibly alternative aesthetic - the 'proud to be working class' version. It isn't viewed as being aspirational, more defiant - we are who we are and we are OK. This has more of a universal theme than a specifically English one. What with the English class system 'n' all, you are meant to climb. So, yes, you get English (well, London, really) working class 60s fashions, and punk, and post-punk greaser stuff, but you will find this mirrored across the world because most of the world is poor-to-starving. In the US, this is the cause Donald Trump voices, country & western celebrates, and shows like 'Duck Dynasty' encapsulate. It's the land of all-over-body tattoos and shaved heads, of hip/hop music, but also of blue collar rock from people like Bruce Springsteen and Kid Rock and John Mellencamp. It is also the land of Americana, dusty roads, trucks and the American flag. In fact, at core, it isn't that English at all. It is what the American working class taught the English working class, from the Black blues players, the Black jazz players, to the 50s rock 'n' rollers. It is what excited that whole generation of late 50s and 60s UK rock musicians - Eric Clapton. Pete Townshend, Jimmy Page, Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, The Beatles etc. A lot of these were not strictly working class, but they felt fairly low down the heap, destined for factory jobs and manual jobs, and wanted something more enjoyable for themselves, which was mostly to live richer lives in a couple of meanings of the word. I.e. the US taught the British classless rebellion. You see all this as being about individualism, but it isn't individualism that creates a majority underclass, although it is individualism that leads to escaping it. That there are a lot of poor people and a minority of better-off people is simply stochastic statistics of the sort Karl Marx popularized. Left to the world's devices, the rich will get inexorably richer and the poor will get poorer. Only governmental intervention or unions can stop this, the sort of checks globalization avoids. What? This is crazy Marxist polemic stuff? Well, maybe, but the fact that 1% of the world owns 50% of its wealth, and 10% owns 90% of its wealth, does sort of argue that Marx was right all along in his economic analysis.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Only correct if you look at the world through a Marxist lens. Many have done so before you. But the question will always be how do you get people like me on board with this Marxist view? I will fight and fight against any society I live in utilising his ideas in any shape or form. So what do you do about me? Regardless of wealth percentages and class issues, which I agree with you about. But what would you do with me? It all depends on how ideologically commited you are to Marx's Utopian future. What you call 'government intervention' sounds very ominous to me. But what has created this wealth divide is actuality is cultural Marxism, Tax the rich and redistribute, and hold the dangers at Marxism by preserving democracy and free speech. This is what we have in the West, and is rooted in the English Aesthetic (which owes in part, as you say, a debt to Christianity) So these values need to be celebrated and protected and we need to stop thinking privilege resides in identity and not in poverty,

[@timhewtson6212]

I don't mind being called a Marxist but I'm not sure that studying him as part of a Social Sciences / Psychology degree is enough to qualify me as being one. It's a bit like saying I'm a hard core Bob Dylan fan. Yes, I like quite a lot of his songs, I think in later years he has 2-3 really interesting new songs per album, and I think he is a sociological phenomenon. But I also think that many of his newer songs are filler, I much prefer Leonard Cohen's lyrics, and I have the same reaction to the statement "Bob Dylan plays the blues" as you have to "government intervention." As for Karl Marx, he was a brilliant analyst, which did not make him a brilliant problem solver. However, as they say, to solve a problem, it helps to have an accurate analysis. And I do like his "from those according to their ability to those according to their need," but that has more to do with my belief in Gnostic Christianity and Franciscan Catholicism than in any faith in communism. Christianity is an individual belief not a structural societal one. Nonetheless, both Gnostics and Franciscans believe in equality between individuals, sharing resources, respect for other species on earth, and a commitment to peace - and I agree with all that. And I think accumulating vast amounts of wealth is sick, not least for the person doing it. (Read Christ's Sermon on the Plain - not his Sermon on the Mount - for that one.) As for what I should do with you, well, I was planning to view lots more of your videos and to bask in the luxuriance of your ideas that matches the luxuriance of your hair. I was also going to bung you some Patreon money at the beginning of next month for all the enjoyment you give me, but I have to buy Ian Hunter's new album that comes out tomorrow first. Is that OK?

[@colsmusic]

Ok I've done the Math "S" double checked it and the result is 42 which of course with the use of a babel fish = "Andy Edwards for Prime Minister" I rest my case Ma Lord.

[@nigelleaney8266]

Excellent 2 parter. Believe it or not the Peter Sellers album has been cancelled! Or at least the album sleeve. I checked it out on Amazon and the dangling legs appear to have disappeared. Presumably it’s happened on the basis that such dark humour may offend someone, somewhere. I have always gone on the principle that if a statement, or the like, doesn’t offend anyone, it probably isn’t worth saying (or producing/creating).

[@halcyon289]

Imagine a world without the influence of Skiffle and Trad Jazz . The Jazz guy's name is Ken Colyer .

[@gregarruda112]

Beaurocrats should never control art. Great insights Andy.

[@garanceadrosehn9691]

Andy: Have you heard the full-length version of the song "Class of '58" by Al Stewart?

[@johnpace5774]

Hi Andy! We’ve definitely lost so much of our soul in this country in the last decade or so. Extremism - both left and right - is taking over everywhere, and polarising us all. Inclusivity is being replaced by exclusivity. Having said that, whilst listening to this The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band popped into my head. I’d love to hear your take on them. They’re definitely English Aesthetic, but are they Prog?

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Definitely very English...like Blur....

[@seriousoldman8997]

That band and its offshoots, The Albert's, Bruce Lacy. Spiral,Spiral...

[@martinjacks5631]

How Mulligan and O'Hare led me to experimental music' 'is a piece I have recently read on the Quietus. It instantly reminded me of part 1 of this sequence, a vlog I was initially sceptical of but became won over by. Is this conceptual continuity? Regards, Martin. '

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I can see how that would. I am trying to describe something that many of us know about, but no one ever discusses....

[@dennismason3740]

L.A. - thickest (in every way) traffic in U.S. - I rode a bicycle for transportation in L.A. from 1958 - 2018 when my bike was in pieces once again and I just started walking. I am so off the hook there is no hook. Plus I'm vegan so I have superpowers.

[@pkats9093]

And that sucks to hear about faulty towers censoring. Blasphemy! WTF! I wonder what John Cleese has to say about it. As an American I’d have to say most of my favorite shows are from across the pond.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

I think people after profit are making a lot of money out of people's rage and the internet, which promotes negative thinking, exacerbates it.

[@patrickselden5747]

You're absolutely right about identity-politics. ☝️😎

[@palacerevolution2000]

It's one of my favorite concepts in all your clips. I always hoped you'd do this kind of essay on it. It's why UK bands have always been better than US bands.

[@rk41gator]

Better? I think you missed the English Aesthetic. Different, yes.

[@MrMaynardWR]

Without US music there would be no British bands

[@MrMrh1958]

Gertcha!

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Classic....

[@MrMrh1958]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer There’s a great live TV show Christmas special of Chas & Dave featuring Eric Clapton and Albert Lee!

[@MrMrh1958]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer You should do a piece on Magma! If you’ve never seen them live you should, incredible!

[@aleksandarfrick2656]

Why England dont have classical composers in a rang of Bach , Mozart , Beethoven , Tchaikovsky , Vivaldi , Rossini ? In the other hand gave so much in second half of XX century in pop -rock realm ?

[@DrOz-007]

There were the early English composers such as Byrd, Tallis and Purcell. And then there were the 20th century composers like Elgar, Holst and Vaughan Williams. These were as good as anyone in Europe at the time, but there is indeed a gap amounting to over two centuries where England was creating very few top ranking composers. My guess is that other art forms were dominating culture in Britain during this period, like literature and in particular the novel.

[@dennismason3740]

The "gay clubs" in the seventies were bloody amazing, as were the cheap rock clubs where the greatest artists loved to play to 200 people in a wooden room. Starwood, 1971-1980, I had long hair and woops...Rodney Bingo used to DJ there once a week. He hated me but as the house dancer he would play one song for me - B-52s, Talking Heads, even Flock of Seagulls -or he preferred the pop shit. It was worth the 9 crap songs for one good one. I played to the room, the spirit - imagine Space Age Love Song - the floor was often cleared and I was terrified and I'd close my eyes and dance. Or Love My Way. Or anything Pretenders. Rodney liked the bubble-gum crap. Sorry, Bing, it's true. Yes, I'm that guy.

[@dennismason3740]

I had to tell SOMEBODY...the Muses inform me that 2023 is Cream's big revival. Don't tell anybody. I am delirious about this. See what happens when you don't die?

[@anthonykishko1711]

Peter SELLERS. A childhood hero along with the Marx Brothers. Look at me, I didn't turn out so bad. 🙃 Dr. Strangelove!

[@stereofidelic67]

What about the time Steve Marriott decided to show the world he didn't have to always sing in his Americanised Rock n Roll voice, and knocked out one or two numbers in pure Cockney?

[@drytool]

Peter Banks was a skiffler.

[@anthonykishko1711]

Andy, thank you for your liberal free thinking anti authoritarian anti pc pro humane expression of the Arts. ⚛️

[@dennismason3740]

You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant.

[@dbarker7794]

👍 ✌️

[@dennismason3740]

Beware Mr. Baker.

[@rk41gator]

Perhaps your Part 3 should be about 'balance'. There are more than a few interesting ideas to explore there. How to get achieve balance and continue this idea of the English Aesthetic 'negotiation' could be fascinating. Personally, I see your point about the rise of tribalism. Leaving Brexit is tribalism unhinged and has been a puzzlement for many in the US. Here we are seeing a right-wing (and to a degree left-wing) elitist, tribality moving to censor free speech and limit education, which dovetails nicely to your concept of keeping the working class down. Using culture wars to stop thinking and throttle free speech. Seeing the forest AND the trees is rather important. Rant on!

[@duringthemeanwhilst]

…and breathe :-)

[@ironrose2672]

I think it would have been best to leave the politics out of this. That's not what I come here for. Plus, I think there are differences between USA and UK. Racial prejudice is in our DNA in a way it doesn't seem to be in UK. Roald Dahl is the least of our worries here. And while it's not unfair to criticize the Left, it's possible to get too fixated on it, which only helps the Right. I'll take the foibles of the Left any day over the schemes of the Right. ETA: I think the biggest threat we face right now is fundamentalism, that is, the constant doubling down that occurs with tribalism.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

As the Left keep reminding us, everything is political! Countries don't have DNA and there is no racist gene anyway. I am left leaning but these'foibles' of which you speak sent people to slave camps and the road of bones. You are correct that we must fight against fundamentalism and that includes the censorious attitudes of the dogmatically ideological left. I sat teach in my class room the other day, acknowleding that there are now a ton of ideas, concepts and facts that I cannot discuss with incase someone is 'triggered' and files a complaint. So it is important what they are doing to books, Didn't the Nazis start by banning books?

[@ironrose2672]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Andy, I don't know anything about UK politics, but that's not how it's happening in USA. The Right in the USA is now a major threat to a functional democracy, and to me that's way beyond any of the issues you raise. But I don't want to talk politics with you here in this context. I like what you say about music and music history, and this may have been a misstep. Can we rewind this conversation? ETA: I used the word "DNA" metaphorically. I thought this was obvious, since we're such a mixed nation. Not being from USA, it's possible you don't have the insights into how those dynamics play out here. And just who is doing what to books? Roald Dahl is being revised by his heirs, is he not? That's not the government. Are you following what's happening in the state of Florida? That IS the government, and it's a right wing government. Nazi's were right wing, and any wannabes who are still extant are right wing.

[@motherlesschild102]

A better name for Punk (at least in England ) is Roundhead.

[@elbib2446]

lol as a youth,even though we liked some prog bands,we saw bands like genesis,yes,caravan etc as posh public schoolboy types,and bands like sabbath,zeppelin as more comprehensive/art school,lower middle class/working class bands.i remember the main prog guy at my school,with his long hair,lennon glasses and blue raf greatcoat,which seem to have been a popular fashion with prog fans in the 70s,he was quite a clever,quiet,swotty guy,with his genesis and yes albums under his arms,while us sabbath/zeppelin guys,were more like street urchins.i think with this brexit bollox,the uk is losing its footing/place,as a place where music movements start,from prog to drum and bass etc as many artists are now cancelling the uk legs of their tours,or bypassing the uk alltogether,due to costs,red tape etc the government arent arts friendly

[@dennismason3740]

No, they don't. I have experienced "crippling impoverishment" Food or rent? - that kind of thing, for 70 years and I am pale-skinned so...was there privilege? Did I miss that?

[@kitcanttat]

A few random thoughts triggered by this one: I saw Chas And Dave at Knebworth (second week, first on, 11am or something); The Damned loved Soft Machine, to the extent of stalking Mike Ratledge and being told to piss off by Elton Dean in the loos at one gig; sensitivities around the Major's racist ranting in Fawlty Towers, although a brilliant parody of attitudes of the time, are probably best judged by the people who might feel affronted, which is possibly why Alf Garnett, Love Thy Neighbour and Mind Your Language are best forgotten. Some at the time saw this as licence to repeat said attitudes (I was there and know this to be true). We've come a long way in the meantime, esp with regards to racism and LGBTQ+ rights.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I take your point but I do not think we should alter what happened in the past to please present attitudes. The past is the past. If the Nazis had won they would have defitely wiped away all memory of the Holocaust. NEVER give a society the power to do this.

[@kitcanttat]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Bit of a stretch from the editing of a TV sitcom to the Holocaust. (What about, for example, Jimmy Savile's TOTP appearances, or old episodes of Jim'll Fix It? Just to play devil's advocate). However, I'm impressed by your depth and breadth of knowledge in putting together your videos, especially as you seem to be talking off the cuff, without notes, and that takes some skill. We also seem to share a similar musical background and tastes, and it's nice to see you advocate for all these great artists that have enriched our lives over the years. So thanks for that! Kit

[@dennismason3740]

John Lydon is my hero. So is Ginger Baker and he's horrible. (and he transited, sure whynot)

[@rk41gator]

But at least Sellers died with his boots on. "I been everywhere, man." sounds familiar. The nerve. How dare an Englishman spoof American culture? Punk.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Glad you get it....

[@dennismason3740]

PiL.

[@timhewtson6212]

Oh, and I think you'll find that the first person to proclaim universal human equality was Jesus - "We are all equal in the eyes of God." God, he was as bad as Karl Marx. But I don't think he was an atheist.

[@mr.bloodvessel260]

Oh dear….

[@danny1959]

I'm not upset, but I do disagree with you on some of your points. Do you honestly think that poor white people are less privileged than poor black people? Also, privilege and disadvantage are relative terms. We are all privileged in some ways compared to others and also disadvantaged. I do agree that censoring Fawlty Towers and Roald Dahl is stupid and counter-productive, but I think those are business decisions, not political ones.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I think the statement 'Do you honestly think that poor white people are less privileged than poor black people?' is fundamentally racist as it falls into the identitarian trap of attaching essentialist moral qualities to a whole race. But according to intersectional theory, a millionaire black person is in some way less privileged than a poor white person (see how I am talking on an individual basis) and I don't buy it. And so once you set that ideology up, the left no longer need to help poor people (whom they seem to hate) and champion the rights of identity groups instead. '

[@MrMaynardWR]

I agree with you that there should be more tolerance for diversity of ideas. I was curious about Roger Waters after listening to your video so I watched some of his videos. I will defend his right to say whatever he wants and in the same spirit of saying what you feel and believe I have to agree with David Gilmour that Roger Waters is an idiot

[@motherlesschild102]

I agree-he's an idiot. Freedom is freedom to make mistakes. Freedom of speech- but for only the most popular and/or "approved" speech- is a lie and meaningless.