The entire History of the London GO Train

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

On May 12, 2022, the Conservative Party of Ontario promised that if they were reelected, they would "invest an additional $160 million to improve the speed and frequency of GO train service between London and Toronto". This would presumably address the main issue with the train, which is that it is ridiculously slow between Kitchener and London due to the 30mph (50 km/h) speed restrictions on what was historically a 70 mph (112 km/h) railway. The Conservative party won the election with majority, so they had all the power necessary to upgrade the railway, but once they were elected they conveniently forgot about their promise to make the London GO train an actually useful service.

[@GamingRailfanner]

That sounds like typical politics, promises end up being kicked to the curb

[@michaelritchie5303]

It was a doomed concept from day 1. Via rail is 2 hours. Driving is 2 hours. 4 hours on a Go train was never going to be viable. Flix bus is 2.5 hours. Greyhound is 2.5 hours.

[@GamingRailfanner]

Precisely, however it gave us a unique train set for the time being

[@clydedonaldson7369]

You're absolutely right about the initial concept being non viable for all practical purposes. I'm a former locomotive engineer and instructor with Canadian National Railways and one of the first such crewmembers on the GO train. If for instance, during the later years of operations, they had of made stops leaving London to Ingersoll, Woodstock, Brantford and then express train to Toronto, the concept may have been practical, assuming favorable load factors after the initial period of operations. Part of the problem was "do we run the equipment train early each weekday morning to London or require the crews to effectively work out of London?

[@jayvonnoelsmith8445]

Thats right

[@TracksideKitchener]

I will miss GO Trains to London

[@pokechimp88]

Same

[@TheSouthernOntarioRailfannner]

Same with me (Even if I Didn't see it and Saw the F59PH Double Header on the Niagara Express that went on for a few Months)

[@jayvonnoelsmith8445]

Me to

[@GamingRailfanner]

Fact: Im pretty sure its not called the "Bramalea Local" however I call it that because its a Union Station - Bramalea train so yea.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

I call it the Bramalea Local as well. The name makes sense.

[@Mystro256]

It would have been nice if they actual ran service back to Kitchener when it left London. I would have been able to catch an evening Stratford show and be back home same day.

[@mile290productions3]

Actually they did, same night. i have a video showing him departing back east after he stopped at london via.

[@Edwards-Videos]

Frankly, the service had too many drawbacks: - there were multiple VIA trains a day between Toronto and London (4, now 5, via Brantford plus the one via Kitchener) - You had to use an e-ticket for travel to our from any station west of Kitchener - it was too slow (around 4 hours) - no option to buy (or receive) food onboard, unlike on the VIA train

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

The service was never intended for travel from Toronto to London. It was intended for travel from London to Kitchener, Stratford to Toronto , etc. The Via service via Brantford does nothing to serve that demand. Prior to the pandemic there were two Via trains per day from Kitchener to London, but that has now decreased to one. The GO train restored a second daily departure, but now that has been lost again. The service as introduce never made any sense because the tracks were never upgraded enough to make the travel competitive. If they were fixed up to their original standard, the train would be an hour shorter between Kitchener and London. In the 1980's that trip only took 1h14, but nowadays it takes over two hours. The "pilot" GO service was never testing anything, it was just a political tool so the Conservative party could get votes in London, Stratford and St. Marys. Once the election was over they no longer needed to renew the contract for the train since they were already re-elected.

[@Edwards-Videos]

@@OntarioTrafficMan The problem was that people were not travelling London-Kitchener or Stratford-Toronto. With the slow travel times this never helped. Plus, the departure times were not convenient either as it operated like a commuter train, but due to the overall travel times, it wasn't necessarily an option for commuters from Stratford who were coming into Toronto. I agree that it was a very political toy to get votes. Like I said, the VIA trains offered better options (more comfortable service, onboard catering, etc.) as well.

[@GamingRailfanner]

@@Edwards-Videos There was definitely demand of people traveling from Stratford to Toronto, it was the highest ranking for ridership demand of the 3 new stops. Arguably if they get the tracks up to good maintenance between Kitchener and Stratford and have some layover yard somewhere in Stratford, we could have a few trains run to and from Stratford.

[@Edwards-Videos]

@@GamingRailfanner They could extend one (or two) Kitchener trains to Stratford, perhaps with bus connections for the other Kitchener trains. There is a second track at Stratford station that perhaps could be converted for storing the train(s). But if the track was upgraded, the trains could always be stored back in Kitchener possibly too.

[@wtspman]

The TO-bound commuter focus denies the potential of this part of the line. Metrolinx could easily run a GO shuttle service between Stratford and Guelph that could offer a good downtown to downtown option for both peak and mid-day travel.

[@mile290productions3]

to add my own bit of information about the Service to london. near the end they started kicking the GO out of the station and making it sit in the CN london east yard until morning, where it would scooch out and resume morning service. which was a very funny occurance to see considering it came by complete surprise.

[@asmi06]

GO is a commuter service, and nobody in their right mind would commute 4hrs in one direction. For this service to be viable, the travel time has to be cut by half if not more, but existing infrastructure and rolling stock just can't support that.

[@GamingRailfanner]

In this case, an extension to Stratford only could work, there's ridership there though track work needs to happen. GO transit is definitely not gonna work on that and instead is going to work on enhancing existing services first before thinking of an extension.

[@asmi06]

@GamingRailfanner We're still waiting for a full service to Kitchener, which was promised many years ago (I live in Kitchener), so until that happens I doubt they would even consider extending it further.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

Did you know that people work in places other than downtown Toronto? Like for example in Guelph, Kitchener and London?

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

And besides, GO is not just a commuter service anymore. It is a regional train/bus service, so it accommodates anyone who might want to travel from one city to another. Very few people are commuting from Bramalea to Toronto at 10pm for example but we still run trains because people do want to travel for other reasons than just going to work.

[@asmi06]

@@OntarioTrafficMan Nowhere near enough to justify the train route.

[@KawarthaTransiteer]

8:38 Oh hey, the train left London not too late that evening, a bit after 8:30 PM. I actually got a video of it on its way back to Kitchener in London.

[@mesh1248]

I still see go train going into Stratford tho

[@mitchl4456]

We need a go train running from London to windsor and they need to add small stations in all the small towns along the via/cn tracks and connect to tecumseh mall, Windsor Airport and Devonshire Mall. I live in essex county so I know all the small towns around here. but to start from windsor it could start at Windsor via, take the etr tracks to the cn tracks, then the first stop would be howard ave & etr tracks, 2nd stop would be dougall ave & etr tracks, the 3rd stop would be Devonshire Mall, 4th stop would be windsor Airport, 5th stop would be between Jefferson and Queen Elizabeth, 6th stop tecumseh mall (also a bus station), 7th stop in the town of Tecumseh, 8th stop near russel woods, 9th stop Emeryville, 10th stop Belle River, 11th stop, Rochester Place, 12th stop, Stoney Point, 13th stop Light House Cove, 14th stop Tilbery, 15th stop Chatham 16th stop Thamsville, 17th stop Bothwell, 18th stop Newbury, 19th stop Glencoe, 20th stop Mt Brydges, 21st stop Komoka, 22nd stop Hyde park, 23rd stop wonderland, 24th stop London train station. Now it wouldn't have to be all these stops this is just my idea.

[@GamingRailfanner]

Uh- Im gonna ignore the stop placement stuff because thats a lot lol London to Windsor is dominated by VIA rail so for GO to have a place there, they'd have to have some incentive that would get people to ride it Second, if a new GO service were to start from Lindon to Windsor, another service would have to start from London to Kitchener or London to Aldershot because there's no GO connection between London and the GTA as of now

[@DylanDurdle]

GO (Government of Ontario) Transit has to get out of the 90s mentality that all trains must start or terminate in the Toronto. Providing local service between London and Windsor only makes 100% sense for a train system meant precisely for this purpose. Federal VIA system makes no sense for providing adequate service between two cities within Ontario. Start with providing service between these two cities, then build up to connecting the service to Kitchener and Aldershot. I'm sure nobody will mind transfer points, and the transfer points will ensure service isn't disrupted on primary lines.

[@Police35K]

is Railfanner wtih train GO

[@the_halton_sub_railfan77]

i saw the last run to london

[@minshullj]

I made a point of taking it before the service stopped. At four hours, my wife and I brought cards and adult beverages. After Kitchener we had the lower portion of the car to ourselves.

[@stinkyroadhog1347]

Upgrades to the line should be funded since there's clearly a demand for it so this service can return

[@ColinFilmsTrains]

Interesting video! Nice to know it's history!

[@DylanDurdle]

Why were the double F59s banned? Having rode daily long routes when the F59s were primary locomotives, I can atest to the frequency of these locomotives breaking down and needing a tow into the closest station by a CN locomotive. The double F59s sounded like a brilliant idea.

[@GamingRailfanner]

The F59s weren't banned, double heading trains on GO were banned which meant the double F59s were. This means only one F59 could operate that train. The ban was because of cracks at Toronto's Union station's underground concourse

[@duncanfox2168]

my dad drive the london line for 2 years