The Ermenonville Disaster - Turkish DC10 Crash 1974

March 3rd 1974 - A fully loaded DC10 crashed into the Ermenonville forest outside of Paris. At the time it was the worst air disaster in history. A story of what happens when a corporation puts profits over safety. A tragedy which ended the lives of 346 people....and could easily have been avoided.
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Although focused primarily on disasters, this channel is all about the interesting, the strange, the unsolved, the tragic. Our world has a varied history full of terrible tragedies, bizarre tales, unexplained events, and extravagant people. I hope you enjoy some of the fascinating stories we have here.
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[@theravenseye9443]

Third time is the charm? Re-Uploaded again..... KZbin's copyright checking systems seems really irrational at the moment. I am uploading first to a test channel to make sure they are OK - 10 days with no problems then upload onto this channel and the video gets blocked straight away? Very strange, and annoying for anyone watching or commenting. Oh well, let's see if tbis version can stay up...!!!

[@LesSharp]

Ugh, tell me about it. I upload everything on my channel and leave it on private for week, and only then make it public. Even then it doesn't always work out. I think the more claims YT has made against you, the more sensitive the algorithm gets.

[@slagarcrue85]

Ten years in advanced before those two incidents happened Douglass higher ups new about the lethal issue and did nothing. Do to greed pride and arrogance. In my opinion which may trigger alot of people. Douglas you as bad as the terrirost that caused the infamous accident in the sky’s an on the grounds in Ireland and the sociopaths that contributed to the Carnary island crash partially and the guy that planted the bomb and caused the infamous Pam am disaster.

[@canadagoose1480]

I hope it, and all your videos stay up! I love the way your videos are no-nonsense, no glamor, and straight to the point. You have another subscriber here!

[@dlbstl]

Thank you for this. Great storytelling of a horrible tale. I looked into this at the time, you tell it well!

[@mauricedavis2160]

Ahh, technical bureaucracy rears its head again I see!!!🙏😢🛫

[@redriver4447]

My uncle, Bryce McCormick, was the Captain of the Detroit flight. They did a hell of a job getting the ship down, and even was able to keep the aircraft on the runway. My Dad also flew the -10, both my Uncle and my Dad like how the airframe flew, but it another example of compromises made in the rush of commerce.

[@ariahazelwood3842]

Wow. That is amazing!! I hear about the Detroit flight all the time--what a skilled and lucky fellow your uncle is. His crew and flight attendants truly were amazing in the face of disaster.

[@pooryorick831]

Your uncle is an example of great airmanship. Sometimes the experience and being able to stay calm in a crisis is the last safeguard. He was able to get the plane on the ground with only minimal casualties everyone survived, and there were only minor injuries. That was great flying. Just like Sully.

[@counterintelligencereports7867]

Cool!

[@xavierbreath2227]

Amen.

[@Mrrogerthurman]

It appears McCormick anticipated this problem as a result of the MD ground testing and actually taught himself how to fly the aircraft without the controls to the rear in the simulator. Clever guy.

[@kmacksb]

The plane involved in the Detroit incident was also not as completely crippled as the Turkish plane, as there were no passengers in the rear and the floor collapse wasn't as completely destructive. The pilots still deserve an enormous amount of credit for saving the aircraft, of course! But the Turkish pilots had absolutely nothing to work with; there was no way at all for that plane to be saved. :-(

[@hostrauer]

Correct. The American plane also had an additional galley installed at the back of the plane. The resulted in the loss of a few rows of seats, but also in the loss of weight on the floor from those seats/passengers. Investigators surmised that it was solely because the lighter galley was occupying the back of the plane on the American DC-10 that the floor hadn't completely collapsed like it did in the Turkish DC-10.

[@emmarainbow9557]

Yes, there's a mentour pilot video about it. They still had a very small amount of control, and the explosion wasn't as dramatic because of that extra bar area rather than seats. Terrible it was allowed to happen again after such an obvious near miss

[@southwerk]

Did you know that for years pilots have flown that flight in simulation and no one has ever been able to save the aircraft?

[@Zions_Awesome_YouTube_Show6381]

It's sad 😢 that one of the worst aviation accidents in history could have been avoided 😢😢😢😢😢👇

[@PhilAndersonOutside]

@@southwerk I believe this is true. Denny Fitch was a pilot, DC-10 captain, and instructor who tried. He also studied the JAL 123. Fitch would later be a passenger turned pilot on ill fated United 232, another DC-10 that lost all hydraulics, and crash landed in Sioux City, in one of the most heroic, and infamous crashes in aviation history.

[@robertjensen1048]

Long ago some guy wrote an entire novel about this crash. He said that the guys cleaning up after the crash picked up over 20,000 body parts. Given that there were 346 people on board, it means the average person was shattered into 57.8 pieces.

[@lenkapenka6976]

Destination Disaster - Paul Eddy 1976

[@robertjensen1048]

@@lenkapenka6976 Thanks. But I figured out which book I was thinking of. It's called "The Last Nine Minutes: The Story of Flight 981 ", by Moira Johnston. Written in 1976, 317 pages. I read the paperback version of this back in the 1980's.

[@MrSpookyLover]

robert that is absolutely harrowing , so sad so so sad

[@cevahirgoktepe9965]

​@@MrSpookyLoverçok üzüldüm

[@TheGodParticle]

Good god, that's horrible to imagine. Those poor souls.

[@phrompluto]

I was only a kid when this happened but it had an effect on me and many others. My home town rugby team had been playing in a tournament in Paris. They had been eliminated and took a vote on whether to stay and watch the rest of the rugby or book a flight home early. They voted to go home and were on this plane. The town had a population at that time of around 25,000 and it was said that everybody there knew someone who was on this plane. My parents were selling our old house and our estate agent was on it. This story still gives me chills to this day.

[@Fercough]

Bury St. Edmonds. My father was on this flight. The rugby club have been very respectful around the crash with memorial dinners etc. Thank you.

[@tedsmith6137]

This accident had a wider effect. Boeing 747's were modified to have pop open vent grills in the bottom of the sidewalls and blowout panels in selected areas of the floor to allow safe cabin depressurisation in the event of a cargo door failure, even though the 747 control cables run above the cabin ceiling.

[@hostrauer]

@Joseph Lucas United 811 departing from Honolulu. It was a near thing, though, and took some really impressive airmanship from that flight crew to get the crippled jumbo back to the airport.

[@BritanniaPacific]

@Joseph Lucas there was a pan am 747 that suffered a cargo door failure in the years before united 811. Albeit not as devastating as 811 since the door on pan am was ajar when discovered and didn’t cause a violent decompression, but that was a warning sign that should not have been ignored. Nine lives could’ve been saved on flight 811.

[@chatteyj]

@@hostrauer People still died from that 747 cargo door failure.

[@robertmcghintheorca49]

Sadly did little to minimise the horrific damage caused by the failure of a cargo door on a Boeing B747 flying as United Airlines Flight 811 from Los Angeles to Sydney, via Honolulu and Auckland, though thankfully the plane landed safely.

[@tumbleweed2240]

I thought the 747 has four redundant control cables: two running under the floor and two within the ceiling

[@susanowen1709]

And once again money is saved while lives are lost. In some ways, I think this one was probably worse for the search & rescue teams than the victims; those on the plane had a few seconds of terror, then oblivion. The teams probably had PTSD/flashbacks for the rest of their lives (and as this was only in '74, a lot of them are likely to still be alive and dealing with the horror of it all). Another well-presented, respectful video.

[@theravenseye9443]

I came across a couple of graphic photos of the clean up while doing the research for this - truly awful. Really brings home the horror of the tragedy but not something I would wish to see again. On a side note a mate of mine had to help with the clean up of the Lockerbie bombing (years ago) - he said he had nightmares for years afterwards.... he was just an air cadet at the time with no preparedness for what he had to see.

[@susanowen1709]

@@theravenseye9443 I feel for your mate. It must have been horrific for him. We lived in Cerritos at the time of the 1986 air collision; my dad was working in the garage & heard the crash, looked up and saw the planes falling. He, too, had nightmares about it for years.

[@BlueBirdsProductions]

Nah man dying in a plane crash is the number 1 worst way you could possibly die, they had it much worse

[@AlwaysRight1111]

At least it wasn’t an American flight

[@susanowen1709]

@@AlwaysRight1111 And that makes it less horrific because...?

[@leopold7562]

I was a kid growing up in the 70s and one of my enduring memories is the seemingly large number of air incidents involving the DC-10. It made me very fearful of flying on one to the point where I was also deeply mistrustful of the similarly designed, but considerably safer, TriStar. And yet I never had any issues stepping on a 707, probably the worst plane to ever exist!

[@rc70ys]

Terrible Built Planes

[@hmdwgf]

There are planes far worse than a 707. The 707 is actually one of the most important airplanes ever made- it was the first mass-produced commercial jet and had a very successful service life. The same cannot be said of the Comet.

[@GiordanDiodato]

believe it or not, the DC-10 has about the same safety record as the 747. maybe slightly better. the other major incidents involving the DC-10 were either bad maintenance (AA191 and United 232) or bad navigation on the part of the company (ANZ 901)

[@Ben-ks5bm]

@@GiordanDiodato the numbers are not compatible

[@GiordanDiodato]

@@Ben-ks5bm why? they're of the same era

[@TheDoubleace191]

One more factor saved AA96, the loadfactor. The flight had much lower load of passengers and cargo and it was a big deal because although the cabin floor did collapse, it wasn't severe as the Turkish flight. As a result, some of the hydraulic lines were saved, helping the pilots a chance to save the plane, which they did...

[@Votrae]

Expertly well done as always. I'd heard of this before, but never so clearly guided and sensibly explained. Seriously. I appreciate your content so much!!

[@marvinstorm9153]

The most macabre event triggered by profit over safety. Tragic. RIP to those poor souls

[@AiMR]

That re-enactment of the final words from the pilots had me on the edge of my seat!

[@ernestweaver9720]

My condolences to the families that lost loved ones. A tragedy that could have been avoided. So sad.

[@kenharris5390]

The British newspaper, The Sunday Times Investigation Team, examined the whole aspect of the crash, from the aircraft design, construction and test pilot program, to the fatal flight. The result was a book entitled, Destination Disaster. A weighty tome but a very comprehensive investigation.

[@cr10001]

I have a copy of it. I wouldn't trust McDD or their management to engineer a pushbike. I get the impression that the DC10 design had the bare minimum necessary to meet certification requirements. Certainly their management were desperate to minimise any cost and resist any suggestion that any safety modifications might be useful or necessary, even after the Windsor Incident demonstrated exactly what could happen.

[@barrydysert2974]

That's the thing about safety boards in the US. They can make recommendations all day long on ways to make a process or an airplane safer, but the administrative agency overseeing what ever it is has zero obligation to implement them. Once the politicians take over logic, science and reason leave the room. 💜🙏⚡️

[@lot110]

That stupid

[@TheBeingReal]

If you ever flew a DC-10 /MD-11 and noticed the round manholes in the cabin: these were added to prevent the floor from collapsing if the cargo door blew out. The ‘manholes’ would blow out…not the floor.

[@drumdad54sdl47]

Tastefully presented in a clear concise & eloquent manner. Top-notch channel that will blow up before too long... mark my words.

[@charliekezza]

Why don't you have more subscribers? Totally underrated channel

[@benjaminhawthorne1969]

I live in Chicago land and I vividly recall the horrific crash of another DC - 10 in 1979, when I was 10 y.o. The aircraft was fully loaded with jet fuel as it took off from O hare, bound for LAX.Due to improper maintenance procedures (you can read much more about that travesty on the internet, under the full demand of takeoff power, the engine tore itself from its mounting bolts and tumbled over the top of the wing to land on the runway. As the engine tore loose it severed hydraulic control lines to the wing. The slats and flaps on that wing retracted, while the flaps on the other side of the plane remained functional. This put the plane in an "areial cartwheel position as one wing tip hit the ground and the rest of the aircraft disintegrated in a trailer park next to the airport. I still remember coming home that afternoon and watching the horrific images on TV. The crash was particularly close to me because my neighbor, Captain Walters, was a United Airlines pilot. Us neighborhood kids would often accompany him on his regular jogs around our neighborhood. And one time our class went on a field trip to O'hare, and who was our guide? My neighbor Capt. Walters! 😉

[@cr10001]

The irony is that the 10 could have gone around quite safely on two engines and was doing so but the pilots didn't know they'd lost the left-hand slats (and the instruments that could have told them were fed off the circuit powered from the left-hand engine) - so, ironically, after consulting the checklists the pilots *reduced* speed to the specified engine-out speed which was below the stall speed for the no-slats case.

[@dezznutz3743]

@@cr10001 I had read the pilot(s) turned the plane into the left hand dive, instead of trying to turn the plane right away from the dive, which to me sounded like the worst pilot error ever, but your explanation makes a lot more sense. Thanks for posting.

[@MeredithMacArthur]

Loving your channel, dude. Well researched, well written, thorough visual documentation. Although I do love stories of (sometimes morbid) tragedies, many KZbin channels seem to be mostly interested in the macabre aspects of the cases they report. The personal touch you ad by letting the viewers know how the stories make you feel makes The Raven's Eye my favorite.

[@rvanderjagt5944]

Yes, same here. I like the personal touch and tactful, respectful way these events are presented.

[@andyjay729]

Not gonna lie; that alarm at 3:50 scared me.

[@TadWohlrapp]

No kidding! Was watching with headphones and it scared the shit out of me!

[@bradcrosier1332]

…and it is not even remotely what the over-speed warning sounds like. 🙄

[@jetlaw_1]

@@bradcrosier1332 Exactly. Dude used the EAS tone instead of the overspeed warning sound which is easily findable online.

[@SMSJSC]

I think this was the first time a wide-bodied jet went down, fully loaded, without survivors. Just the nightmare scenario the entire airline industry had been dreading would one day happen. And yet 346 deaths proved insufficient reason to deal with the problem properly. Quite extraordinary, really.

[@hostrauer]

To this day, nearly 50 years later, it remains the most fatal aviation accident not involving a 747.

[@antman5474]

And it's still the worst single airframe non survivable air crash.

[@twilightnawi1194]

@@antman5474 Worst single airframe non-survivable in terms of Pax, not in total deaths; American 11 and United 175 both have higher total deaths.

[@antman5474]

@@twilightnawi1194 People in the towers don't count as passenger fatalities and terrorist attacks are not really considered true air crashes that require air crash investigations. I get where you're coming from though.

[@cr10001]

@@twilightnawi1194 9/11 doesn't count, can't blame Boeing or the 767 for those. Any airliner of the same size would have done equally well (or badly, depending how you look at it).

[@mlfett6307]

Thanks for sharing the story - its an excellent story illustrating the theory that there is never one thing that causes a plane to crash, and a maddening case of backroom agreements. Mentour Pilot and Mayday also cover this story - its too bad so many people had to die to teach the airline industry these important lessons.

[@flankerroad7414]

Not all control was lost during Winsor incident; they were in bad shape but were able to land. The Turkish airliner had zero control....their lifelines were severed. During the investigation, an official described the locking design of the door as something worthy of Rube Goldberg. People ought to have been jailed for this.

[@mikeprevost8650]

Bryce McCormick and Page Whitney still had aileron control. They used differential thrust and power changes to compensate for the loss of rudder and elevator control.

[@DC4260Productions]

It's absolutely sickening when companies skimp out on safety measures just to save face, time and money. In this case I'm referring to McDonnell-Douglas initially not doing anything about the poor cargo door design, and trying to blame baggage handlers instead. If there's one thing I know about the DC-10's history, it's that there were a disturbingly high number of fatal crashes involving this plane. Further accidents after Turkish Airlines 981 included American Airlines 191, Air New Zealand 901 and United Airlines 232.

[@okankyoto]

They succeeded at the goal of beating the L-1011 I guess. The DC-10 taking so much of the market that Lockheed departed the passenger market entirely. Arguably the L-1011 was safer... but apparently all that mattered was being first.

[@Vincent_Sullivan]

@@okankyoto True, the DC10 did beat the L1011 to market but that was not really Lockheed's fault. If I recall correctly the delay was caused by Roll Royce being way behind schedule on the RB211 turbofan engine development program.

[@Vincent_Sullivan]

Trainspotter; I agree there were a lot of accidents with the DC10 but many of them had little or nothing to do with McDonnell-Douglas or the aircraft itself. Yes, THY981 was caused by faulty airframe design but AA 191 was due to maintenance procedures specifically recommended against by McDonnell-Douglas compounded by incorrect flight crew training. TE 901 was a navigation screwup that had the crew fly it into the side of Mount Erebus in Antarctica. UA 232 was an un-contained engine failure and many people don't realize that the engine was manufactured by General Electric, not McDonnell-Douglas. True, UA 232 lost all 3 hydraulic systems due to them all being concentrated in the tail near the engine that blew up, but how else are you going to route the hydraulic lines when all 3 systems have to connect to the rudder and elevator in a small area of the tail of the airframe? In retrospect adding more protection to the lines might have been a good idea but engine failures are supposed to be contained within the engine. My intent here is not to absolve McDonnell-Douglas of responsibility for defects and skimping on safety measures on the DC-10 but to point out that they had a lot of bad luck with that aircraft that was completely beyond their control and the general public just sees the headline that another DC10 has crashed.

[@dezznutz3743]

This video fails to mention they added a viewport so the baggage handler could see the handle inside and make sure it was in the locked position. As the video mentions, they also put out the bulletin and told people how to handle it, but it was lost in translation here. Basically, this happened again 40+ years later with the Boeing Max, when Boeing put out a bulleting telling companies and pilots what to do if that censor failed, instead of fixing the problem directly.

[@dezznutz3743]

@@Vincent_Sullivan MD skimped. The L-1011 was built from the ground up and it had safety in mind. The DC-10 was a converted DC-8. The L1011 had something like 4 or 5 redundancies in the system in case lines were severed in the back of the plane, wouldnt result in total loss of control.

[@lisaamato1332]

Been avidly looking out for your next upload and this one certainly did not disappoint. Excellent attention to detail coupled with articulate narration made this an absolute must watch! Thank you! 👍🏻🙂

[@theravenseye9443]

Thank you - video releases are probably going to be a bit more random at the moment, but they are still coming! Thanks for your positive comments, as always.

[@paulkasden9758]

feeling the need to let you know again just how much I enjoy your channel. such a wonderful job.

[@triplebird3211]

I love your use of sound in these!

[@theravenseye9443]

Thanks!

[@TracyA123]

800 Kilometers an hour! My God! That's almost an unimaginable speed to hit a forest at. God bless the victims. Id like to think we were past such a tragedy due to greed but the current scandal at Boeing is the same thing.

[@mortified776]

And Boeing, once a respected house of engineering, is in this state because they merged with McDonnell-Douglas in 1997. The same people who ran MD to ruin infected Boeing with their corporate culture of greed and incompetence. As someone once described it: "McDonnell-Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money." What brought MD to the point that their best shot was to latch onto and hijack Boeing like some sort of parasite? They'd spent the 80s trying to flog updates of the DC-10 and DC-9 to airlines instead of spending what they needed to on next generation designs. Sounds familiar.

[@theseagulls7035]

It’s always about money. Life means very little to corporate greed.

[@triggeredcat120]

My country goes by kilometres but in miles it’s almost 500mph, exactly 497.097mph.

[@TracyA123]

@@triggeredcat120 Wow

[@bradcrosier1332]

More so than you likely recognize, since essentially what happened was McDonnell-Douglas used Boeing’s own money to buy Boeing (yes, I know it was billed the other way around, but look deeper into the reality of what went down), then installed MD management and corporate culture, and now you have the entirely predictable disaster from doing so.

[@TracyA123]

No worries my friend! Keep uploading and we will keep watching! I do hate that KZbin seems to just make up the copyright rules as they go. That has to get old. Thanks for keeping these videos up!☺

[@TracyA123]

@@theravenseye9443 I can't imagine how frustrating that is. I really appreciate the hard work you put into your videos. May I suggest you add a PayPal link in the video descriptions? That way, we can show our appreciation in a more helpful way.☺

[@rumrstv]

Very well done. Thank you for acknowledging that most tragedies are not a simple case of blame for one group or entity. It's usually a product of an existing culture of indifference and neglect that's only awakened from it's sleep by catastrophe.

[@tolgahk84]

Being fluent in Turkish i decided to listen to the CVR recording. It was a strange, eerie feeling, listening to them them at the start speaking in English with ATC, then as soon as the disaster occurs switch into horrified Turkish. One thing wasnt posted on the CVR recordings you posted in their video, after they mention trying to lift the nose into the air and it wont work, one of the pilots mentions hydraulics, the other then replies its not working, kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrbf4Z4rb10jq8 if you go to about 0:35 you can hear them mention the hydraulics (Hidrolikler?... Calismiyor!) shortly after this they say a couple more things which is difficult to make out before the recording goes silent.

[@lenkapenka6976]

I am not sure this audio is real. The last ten seconds or so of the actual CVR had the pilots whistling a tune from a recent TV advert that was popular in Turkey (probably this was stress and the realization all was lost) - additionally the GPWS warning is inaccurate. For indisputable evidence read Destination Disaster - by Paul Eddy and others 1976, and other books around that time. The CVR was well documented in transcripts back then.

[@timexironman100m]

I remember this.. I was 12....remember the paper the photos of body parts haging from trees etc... never flew a DC 10 in its entire life and travelled a lot in the decades to follow always on the tri star and jumbo jets.. this accident effected tons of people and the sad loss of life for basically profit and safety.

[@cr10001]

I would've loved to fly on a Tristar. But they never made it to this part of the world (New Zealand). Air New Zealand had DC10's and after they pranged one into Mt Erebus (which unusually was not in any way the fault of the 10) they couldn't wait to get rid of them and buy 747's.

[@Ruda-n4h]

@@cr10001 I flew on all Freddie Laker's DC10's from 1976-78. I believe in the immediate aftermath he had his ground crews bolt the cargo door closed.

[@paulallen8777]

50 years ago today. RIP to the passengers and crew.

[@Fercough]

Thank you.

[@shrimpflea]

Good video about a horrible accident that sould not have happened. One correction: The L-1011 is pronounced ten-eleven.

[@geoffrogers7776]

It’s alarming that MD engineers and managers were allowed to take key positions at Boeing after the merger. The safety standards couldn’t have been more different between the two companies.

[@nna9509]

And you could see how that money over safety culture got established in Boeing as well through those 737 max crashes.

[@bradcrosier1332]

Yes and yes to both points - finally someone who gets it!

[@edaturk7529]

Wow how very sad.. Thank you for a well presented respectful video ❤

[@thamirivonjaahri6378]

There was a reason people called these "The Death Chamber"

[@daniellatheczarina2u915]

I was in High School in the UK when we were told about the crash. One of our teachers and her husband tragically were on this plane.

[@Fercough]

Do you recall the name? My father was on the flight, at last weeks 50th memorial service we met quite a number of relatives, each with their own story. X

[@RagingMoon1987]

My dad was an airplane enthusiast. He told me that overall the DC-9 and the DC-10 were good planes with bad luck. He explained that the only accidents he could name where poor design was at fault were the two related in this video here. But boy, was the Ermenonville incident a humdinger! 346 lives is a terrible price to pay for shoddy construction.

[@bradcrosier1332]

I’ve flown all three wide-body tri-jets (L-1011, DC-10, and MD-11) as well as the B-747-400. The DC-10 and its larger sister the MD-11 are both under-engineered. While AA191 at O’Hare was most directly attributable to improper maintenance practices, there were underlying design deficiencies which contributed to the accident as well, specifically the design of the slats in such a way that they were only held extended by hydraulic pressure (rather than locking extended) as well as the installation of on,y one stall warning channel on the accident aircraft - either of which being different _MIGHT_ have given the crew an opportunity to avoid the accident (flight crew procedures were also changed as a result, but that’s another whole discussion). The end result was under-engineering by MD virtually ensured that accident would happen, and the same with UAL232 years later (better systems design would have left one operative hydraulic system). I never flew the DC-8 or DC-9, but have had a number of colleagues who did and who raved about both types, but the DC-10/MD-11 were a bridge too far for what MD could successfully execute.

[@cchris874]

@@bradcrosier1332 I've been on a few DC-8s. The KLM crew I spoke with hated them in terms of serving passengers. And lacking auxiliary power, they could get quite uncomfortable on the ground. Waiting for startup in Nassau on a Delta DC-8-71 (they never bothered to add this during the re-engining program) became pretty trying!! But it's slim beauty made up for it.

[@chriswatson6231]

I was born in 1971 and so to me as a kid watching the evening news from say 73. I saw dc10 crash after crash. Whats interesting is that flying round the world eventually i stepped onto a dc10 (1995,) so probably an md11. My travelling companion said I went white as i saw the unique tail engine from the gate. Then a whiter shade of pale when upon boarding i saw the brand logo above the front door. This is "child grows up watching horror on tv news, allways seeming linked to dc10, and discovers deep seated phobia of dc10s as a result". Yet ive heard pilots loved it.

[@Davest420]

Your channel has become high on my favorites list. Probably just under #1 MrBallen. I hope that it really takes flight and you get all the subscribers you deserve. I’m sure you’re on your way! Keep up the great work!

[@dennis2376]

Thank you.

[@rufusgillespie9940]

your vids are such high quality for a small chanel, i'm impressed

[@saragrant9749]

This is a situation where you realize how hard a job first responders have. I couldn’t imagine the scene of having to pick up pieces of human beings like that, good lord. This is one time where the media was of great assistance to providing the truth in what had happened. One of the few times the media actually did this. You are absolutely correct in saying there were multiple guilty parties in this. Many folk will have to answer for their actions when they face the ultimate judge.

[@dezznutz3743]

Now the media would cover-up for the Airline, and the politicians protecting them. This is what Globalism hath wrought.

[@andrewwatson1206]

A young gentleman from Blackpool UK called Ian Fuller was a passenger on this flight. He left Blackpool to be a fashion model and he sadly lost his life on the way back from Paris Orly to London

[@simons3896]

As a keen aviation enthusiastic, ive read extensively on this terrible disaster. I have seen the passenger list and i noticed the fashion models on board that day. Ive dabbled in modeling myself, and ive tried to find if there was any photos of the models, i know an actor was on that flight too, Michael Hannah. You sound like you knew ian? I hope you don't think im being disrespectful , and hope you don't mind me messaging you. Rip all the souls on this flight.

[@Ben-ks5bm]

@@simons3896 what nonsense

[@simons3896]

@@Ben-ks5bm I don't think an aircrash is nonsense...

[@Fercough]

There were many Japanese on board all Bank of Japan staff going to London. I think about 50.

[@daphne8406]

I remember this case 😣 Horrible that so many planes had to crash and people had to die when they already knew that there was a serious problem with these planes! Truly infuriating and shameful!

[@R-G_RSM2013]

The flight crew of the TC-JAV is my grandfathers schoolmates from the turkish airforce school and he is still alive and tells me that day god bless all the victims souls...

[@jessicamilestone4026]

As someone who has watched the documentary series, 'Air Crash Investigation' a lot, it really does seem to me that the F.A.A. really fails to do its job. If an Aircraft manufacturer is willing to knowingly overlook serious design flaws in order to beat its competitors, then they clearly cannot be relied upon to put safety recommendations in place. In this case, as in others, the F.A.A should have issued the company concerned with an Air Worthiness Directive. This would make it mandatory for the company to correct the design flaws. Brilliant video as always. Thank you.

[@cchris874]

The problem is the powers that be created the FAA for two contradictory purposes: to regulate safety, and to promote the growth of the industry. This conflict of interest may have killed 100s or more on top of flight 981. See the wiki entry for some interesting commentary.

[@cr10001]

The FAA tried but McDonnell Douglas used all their political leverage at a high level to overrule the middle-level FAA employees. They didn't want the bad publicity of an Airworthiness Directive. They got a lot worse publicity than that, just a shame about the collateral damage.

[@cr10001]

McDonnell Douglas did their damnedest (as the narrator says) to blame everybody but themselves for their inadequate design. And to make anybody else pay for the necessary fixes. Part of the reason the door design went unfixed for so long was, McD were trying to make Convair, subcontractor for the door assembly, pay for any necessary fixes. Hence the Applegate Memorandum (Dan Applegate was a Convair engineer): "Since Murphy's Law being what it is, cargo doors will come open sometime during the twenty-plus years of use ahead for the DC-10... I would expect this to usually result in the loss of the aircraft"

[@jocelynharris-fx8ho]

Here in 2024, let's keep in mind that some of those merchants of death migrated over to Boeing and were in charge of the 737 Max program. They never learned their lesson. 😮

[@sabrekai8706]

6:12. Hate to tell you but this isn't the DC-10 Cargo door. It's from a United 747 that blew out it's door after departing Hawaii, and was recovered from the ocean floor. BTW I worked for McDonnell Douglas Toronto from Jan 1979 til March of 81. Some of the things I saw while working there swore me off ever flying on one of their aircraft. I worked on DC-9 tail sections, (about 104-105 of them) DC-9 wing panels, riveting the stringers onto the skin, (40-50 of those) and DC-10 wing skins, (about 10 or so.) Things like holes drilled in the wrong place, filled with sealer and painted over. Swarf (drill shavings) riveted into wings under the stringers, and other things. The worst was the wing panels. They were riveted on a machine called a Drivematic, with the machine running on paper tapes, with the operator holding a trigger that he was to let go if there was to be a hole in the wrong spot. Problem was, the rivet locations were moved as per an engineering order but the tapes were never changed. Blow a hole in a panel, because the operator wasn't fast enough and it was your fault. The cycle time from lock on the location, drill, rivet and shave was about 4 seconds. So from clamp up to drill, you might a second to react to what you saw on the tv screen as you were under the wing skin and it was doing this on top.

[@rosemaryangela1825]

Agreed.

[@hebneh]

Like this Turkish aircraft, the United plane's cargo door blowout sucked a section of seats out of First Class, killing those passengers. This happened just months after the even more notorious Aloha Airlines Flight 243 was shockingly ripped open in the air. Two bizarre air incidents in one place (Hawaii) in a short time.

[@cr10001]

@@hebneh Difference was, United was a 747 so didn't immediately crash killing all on board. Aloha's 737 was young in years but very old in flights and had some manufacturing faults and corrosion issues - still a miracle it got down in one piece.

[@charisselinnell-morton4137]

The DC 10 was an excellent aircraft once it had been reworked. I was luck to fly on one in 1979 and 1983 .Back then I wore a dress to go on flights to see relatives. My Grandpa worked for Boeing.The 747 also had issues with the cargo door was opening and it was a very similar problem .

[@Ben-ks5bm]

Glad you wore a dress, all issues solved 😂🤦‍♂️

[@charisselinnell-morton4137]

@@Ben-ks5bm Lmao 😂 I can’t believe I said that but I am an avid aviation addict.

[@cr10001]

Except the 747 cargo door never resulted in the complete loss of the aircraft. (Can't believe I'm defending Boeing but in those days I think they had a far more responsible attitude to safety - as did Lockheed - than the cowboys in charge at McDonnell Douglas)

[@dezznutz3743]

@@Ben-ks5bm Shes trying to get the message across that flying was a special thing, and not what it is now where its basically Public Busses in the air. I despise modern day commercial flight due to so much trash allowed on board.

[@azzaman4268]

Another United DC-10 door blew out on a flight to Auckland I recall. The kiwi victim's parents went to the ends of the earth to make sure McDonnell Douglas were held responsible

[@missykeatings9114]

@azza man UA flight 811. That was actually a boeing 747, not DC 10. Their rear cargo doors had an electrical fault that would open the door uncommamded

[@cr10001]

@@missykeatings9114 The difference is that the 747 only lost a few passengers instead of crashing and killing everybody on board. That's how we know it wasn't a DC10. :)

[@mike196212]

I have a vague memory of seeing news of the crash after Hockey Night In Canada on CTV(would have been a Wednesday). I was only 12 and the story gave me the creeps. Absolutely awful and preventable.

[@TK-tcbk1]

Imagine being the person told they didn’t close the door properly and thus caused this crash! Terrible thing to do to an innocent person. Also, the FAA still doesn’t enforce all mandates for changes on planes or they give a ridiculous amount of time for airlines to fix known problems that could be very dangerous. It’s quite unsettling.

[@mjgasiecki]

Idk how these people can summon up the courage to collect 20,000 body parts…I’d leave my profession immediately after that incident…

[@clintkinsey1614]

Dude, I love this channel!! I just discovered you 2 nights ago and Ive already watched every video you got, so keep'em coming!! LOL

[@samanthagomez7074]

Wow RIP 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹 Horrible Story For Real 🙏🌹 Poor Innocent Victim's On The Plane 😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😭😥😥😥😥😭 This happened when my brother was born in 1974

[@hebneh]

I remember watching an in-depth TV program about this event, probably on PBS, in the 1970s. The images I've never forgotten were of the passengers still strapped into their seats which were sucked out through the ripped-open cargo door, partially buried in the plowed earth of agricultural fields from hitting the ground at high speed after falling from that high altitude.

[@cchris874]

Yes, it was put out by the BBC called The World's Worst Air Crash. It was criticized for these images, but it was still a very powerful documentary I wish will be published again sometime.

[@arsynov]

Funfact : DC-10's also involved in the crash of Air France 4590, the downfall of Concorde

[@shrimpflea]

Disputed.

[@markmonse5285]

A great book on this one is "Destination Disaster"

[@ellsworth8328]

I have never been on a plane because a family member went through a crash like that I will never fly unless I don't have a choice bless 🙏💯

[@rmooreg]

Of the 346 persons on board, well over 100 of them were not originally assigned to that flight. A planeload of German tourists were transferred to this flight when the plane they were scheduled to fly on had mechanical problems and their flight canceled while the plane was repaired. They thought they would avoid the delay in returning home, only to never make it home at all. Tragic twist of fate.

[@Plutokta]

My grand mother was a Red Cross volonteer from a nearby town and was rushed to the scene. She thought it would be a good idea to bring my then 12 years old dad along with her. Apparently, it was not a fun day for him.

[@Ruda-n4h]

After the American Airlines incident on June 12th, 1972 when the same explosive decompression occurred, Dan Applegate a project manager at the subcontractor Convair, voiced his concerns to management about potential design faults as in his estimation the cargo door would come open sometime during the twenty-plus years of use ahead for the DC-10, and would result in the loss of the aircraft. Management believed that his proposed changes would be costly to implement, and there was some debate about who would end up paying for them, Convair or McDonnell Douglas. Applegate's suggestions to upgrade the door, and especially the cabin floor, would have required the aircraft to be grounded, an expensive proposition. Instead, a set of relatively minor changes were made, intended to ensure that the latches were properly seated and the locking handle could not be operated if they weren't. These changes were limited to strengthening some of the locking system's parts, and adding a small window to allow handlers to visually inspect the latches. However, baggage handlers were not informed of the window's purpose. The official investigation found that: Only the installation of the window was implemented on TC-JAV even though the work was signed off as being fully completed at the Long Beach plant before delivery to THY. A hole had been drilled to gain direct access to the drive mechanism in a way that did not comply with the service bulletin. The cargo door locking pins had been previously filed down by ground crews on stop overs due to the difficulty of closing the door, which meant that it would yield to only a minimum amount of pressure exerted on it and not that to which it was originally designed to withstand. The insufficient protrusion of the locking pins also caused the cockpit warning light to be extinguished even though the latches were not fully in place. An unauthorised metal shim had been inserted into the striker of the unlock limit switch of a quality not to aeronautical standards. Difficulty in closing the door had also been reported before and on the day there was no Turkish Airlines ground engineer on duty.

[@rogerbarton497]

McDonnel-Douglas seems to have more accident videos on KZbin than other manufacturers.

[@RichardTingey]

I flew with Turkish Airlines on a DC10 a week before this crash on a trip to Istanbul and back calling at Paris on the way. Had a choice of two weekends and thank goodness chose the first one.

[@cchris874]

Do you remember anything about the flight?

[@RichardTingey]

@@cchris874 yes, I remember the flight deck cabin door being open and the pilots and flight engineer laughing and joking. This was before the hijacking days so security was not an issue!

[@annehersey9895]

This is really scary to me. While the DC 10 was operational, I never went on transcontinental flights or even rarely from my home in Calif. to NYC so rarely got to fly on anything bigger than a puny 737. Part of the problem was that I flew from San Diego and it can't handle bigger planes as they land right over the downtown. The only time a 747 flew in here, it was completely empty and just for show! A couple of times though flying from LAX I got the bigger planes going deep into Mexico. I absolutely LOVED the DC10 as the only wide-bodied I've ever been on. It was wonderful. I never felt cramped or claustrophobic and my limited experience was wonderful. I guess I should consider myself lucky!

[@b0rj3550n]

And to think the same company repeated cutting corners with the 737 Max and 3 planes have been lost in a matter of some years...

[@cygnia]

Giving you the views you deserve! Here's hoping it stays up...

[@theravenseye9443]

Yeah - fingers crossed!

[@huttona3]

Your voice and accent is perfect for this.❤❤

[@oldstrawhat4193]

Excellent video!!

[@bazza945]

They never learn, they prefer to make the problem vanish, and deny, deny, deny. (See also: B737-800 Max.)

[@jasonhare8540]

There's a mayday aviation disasters episode about this that really goes into depth about the door ....

[@tomhutchins7495]

MDD had a reputation for putting money above safety. Then they bought Boeing, and now we have the 737MAX...

[@escapetheratracenow9883]

346 people died a terrifying death on the 737 Max planes thanks to MCAS. The same number who died a horrifying death, especially the 6 passengers ejected, on the DC-10.

[@jimc-w9312]

My cousin was on this flight. The DC 10 should not have been flying...money talks

[@theravenseye9443]

Sorry to hear that - it was an awful tragedy - should never have happened.

[@jimc-w9312]

@@theravenseye9443 A couple of "irony's". The last time I saw my cousin was around 1965 and he gave me a di-caste model of a large passenger plane. I recall standing on it in my bare feet..it hurt. My aunt should have been on the same flight but was sick and missed it. She felt guilt for years.

[@the_phaistos_disk_solution]

You and Morbid Midnight are the two best.

[@hebneh]

Back in the 1960s and '70s, air travel seemed very safe - and it undoubtedly was safer than cars were then. But compared to today, there were far more catastrophic plane crashes, for numerous reasons which have fortunately been corrected today.

[@cchris874]

Yes, as of 2024, flying is literally at least 10 times safer on average, and probably even more, at least in the so-called safe airline countries, than it was back then.

[@neomacawofficial3119]

What makes it worse. The flight would have usually been almost empty, had it not been for the BEA strike.

[@dezznutz3743]

Communist workers cause more pain and suffering to their friends, neighbors and countrymen then they will ever realize.

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

If they were B.E.A. passengers they would have been in the UK, not in Paris.

[@neomacawofficial3119]

@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 So if you booked a ticket back then, from Paris to London on BEA. You would NOT be a BEA passenger because you are in France and not the UK? 🤔

[@Fercough]

No. They were in Psris.

[@notyou6950]

I remember when that happened. I only once flew on a md1011 and liked the plane. Never got to fly DC10. They are all gone out of passenger business now.

[@PJay-wy5fx]

I know plane crashes are no laughing matter but you made me chuckle at your pronunciation of the planes' type names/numbers. It's always an adventure watching av-vids by non av geeks. It's fine though, I enjoyed the video as I do all of your videos!

[@solsun75]

Reminds me of the Boeing 737 Max planes that crashed in 2019.

[@davidhull1481]

I was looking for a comment like this. If you hadn’t have said it, I would. The more things change….

[@my12spoonswithrose43]

I was born in the 60s so I grew up cutting my teeth on mainly DC10, but also other planes. I had a family member who worked at the Auckland, I'm New Zealand based, airport & we would regularly go out to the airport to watch the planes take off & land. The public viewing deck was on the top of the airport building itself & was open to the elements, I didnt care if it was raining or foggy I just loved being there. No trip was complete without a trip to the control tower, where we would sit & watch the planes from up there & we would send the messages in the message tubes. These days not one of those things would be possible & I think it's sad, that is what started my love of anything flying & the smell of AVGAS most especially lol.

[@EpicJoshua314]

This story, along with that of the 737 MAX, shows the price of aviation safety is much, much cheaper than cutting corners which leads to a crash, deaths, lawsuits, and the forever damaged reputation of the aircraft.

[@zapzeus988]

I lived in Adana Turkey from 1974-75, crazy to think I could have been on one of those planes.

[@Mandy7D7]

For my fellow U.S. viewers, the aircraft hit the forest at 800 kilometers per hour = 497 miles per hour.

[@martinross5521]

Thank you for reminding viewers of this terrible crash. It seemed that really negligent manufacturing and design wasn’t put right to maximise profit and supine regulators acquiesced instead of forcing through safety measures. All this has happened again with the first rushed Boeing 737 Max - pretty much a carbon copy of lousy design, profit before safety and useless regulation. Boeing has really started to behave like McDonnell Douglas… very sad, especially for close to 1000 passengers and crews who paid with their lives for enlarging corporate profits.

[@lumabi25]

I remember seeing this dodgy rear door on "Air Crash Investigations" so I guess they were covering this particular crash. Dreadful that a known poor design was allowed to exist long enough to bring down an aircraft. At least the passengers wouldn't have suffered long on impact.

[@markchalled3976]

The strange thing about this is that after the fix this aircraft became one of the safest to fly.

[@travelerforever8849]

DC 10 is under Mcdonald douglas. They went bankrupt after this incident.

[@johnscanlon2598]

They are still flying cargo to this day Fed-Ex has a lot of them

[@cr10001]

It NEVER became one of the safest to fly.

[@dezznutz3743]

Im reporting this as misinformation because it what it is. The plane may not deserve its bad reputation, but it was never the safest plane to fly.

[@pooryorick831]

Playing with people's lives to save a buck. And McDonell Douglas brought that ethic to Boeing when the two companies merged. This attitude poisoned Boeing and ultimately led to the 737 MAX. The crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia were the final result. Those two crashes combined had a total of 346 deaths. That is EXACTLY the same number of fatalities as Turkish 981. Strange and rather morbid. But it's fun to spot these little ripples and eddys of time.

[@cr10001]

I hadn't noticed that. Certainly at the time of the DC10 crashes I regarded Boeing and Lockheed as having far more regard for safety than McDD.

[@dezznutz3743]

It was pretty much the same. American (Western civilization) pilots and carriers are 1st world, so they get the Safety bulletins the Airplane builders send out and the carriers implement them. These 2nd and 3rd world airlines, not so much. Note that it was 2nd world airlines involved in this crash and the two Boeing Maxx's. The Boeing Maxxs sensor issue had been trained into pilots from 1st world countries, most knew what to do to override the sensor, but NOT the crews of commercial carriers from 2nd world countries. In one of the Boeing crashes, the error had occurred on the previous flight, but that crew knew what to do and overrode the sensor. The problem was it was not fixed by the carrier, and the next flight crew was not trained for the anomaly. Airplane makers have to put out bulletins all the time because they cannot ground entire fleets whenever an issue appears, its not unusual in commercial air.

[@georgesturdy7040]

Another two DC 10s crashed in the 70s one in Chicago after take off one of the engines fell off the wing causing the plane to bank sharply and crash another in the antarctic into a mountain...the plane got the nickname in the industry as the Death Cruiser 10

[@GiordanDiodato]

but it wasn't due to bad design

[@cr10001]

@@GiordanDiodato The Chicago one arguably WAS due to bad design. But Air New Zealand Flight 901 that hit Mt Erebus was in no way the fault of the DC10. But strangely enough (or maybe not at all strange if you're cynical) after that Air NZ couldn't wait to get rid of its DC10's and buy 747's instead.

[@cr10001]

If only - the L1011 had been successful instead of the DC-10. The L1011 was from all accounts a far more advanced airliner, and also a far safer one. I don't know of any L1011 crash that was the fault of the aircraft. Which makes it rather exceptional for the period.

[@juliettecarpentier8654]

The strange thing is, I live quite close to Ermenonville and had never heard about that disaster - then again, I wasn't born in 1974, but still...

[@Fercough]

There is a large memorial in the forest. I was there last week and found the people of Senlis knew instinctively why were they there on the 3rd of March. My dad was on the flight. The people of the area have always shown love and compassion whenever we visit. Thank you.

[@paulsmith843]

I remember this so well, I was 20 yrs old at the time. There is a book on this crash ( If you can get hold of it) Called The Rise and Fall of the DC 10 By John Godson who as soon as he heard about it new it was not a bomb etc as some people were saying but the design of the door / floor! Fantastic Book. Not only were M D responsible for this but also the FAA and especially a guy named Shaffer (Not sure of spelling).

[@cchris874]

The other two books at the time, The Last Nine Minutes; and Destination Disaster were also incredibly well written books. The latter is particularly chilling as it contains the journal entries of the MD engineers they insisted on sending to Istanbul, so concerned were they of the airline's safety. Entries read like "F/E stares blankly at malfunctioning instruments;" and weight errors of thousands of lbs. Truly shocking.

[@longkeithdiablo8812]

I think the term is "Jerry rigged". Apart from that excellent work educating us about this sadly avoidable disaster.

[@theresadimaggio7241]

Bastard McDonald, cared more about his reputation then peoples lives. I hate companies like that. God bles the victims and their families

[@charlottewhyte9804]

I was only 24 then,don,t recall this happening.

[@anthonyrausch5708]

7:39 = I would watch a video about this door mechanism!!!!

[@triggeredcat120]

The irony of Boeing absorbing McDonnell-Douglas only to do the same thing with their 737 Max 8’s.

[@shauny2285]

One nit. The Boeing logo shown early on is the current logo after the merger with McDonnell-Douglas.