The Essence and Energies Distinction in the West (From Victorinus to Aquinas)

[@neoplatonicrelationship]

babe wake up, new mt athos and aquinas fellowship video just dropped

[@cultofmodernism8477]

Great video. Very informative. Based on your presentation, I don't see a fundamental divide between East and West, when properly understood. I see that's where you're going with this.

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Thanks Cult, Yes, glad you see where I am going with this. The East and the West are very compatible if we squeeze the “Neo-Palamite” position out of the picture. I think Palamas in context is key to harmony.

[@Isaakios82]

Join us, Brother. Come East! You’re most welcome. I love meeting amazing RC brothers who are essentially Orthodox in their hearts. Many such people. There is no Orthobro Magisterium- only self-appointed teachers whose chrism still hasn’t even dried yet. It’s a blessing for learned, irenic people to engage with our Tradition and the common East-West patrimony and to share it. In spite of the naysayers, we have much more in common than what we differ upon. Blessed Gennadius II of Constantinople commanded that Catholics be given antidoron at Orthodox divine services because they were true Christians. If we fail to see that, we are simply not living up to Orthodox tradition.

[@Jerônimo_de_Estridão]

👀

[@achilles4242]

Glad to see you uploading! Looking forward to watching this :D

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Thanks Achilles, appreciate the prayers and thoughts as well!

[@John-el5jv]

This is a fascinating and ambitious project. At some point, it would be helpful it you set out the overall argument that you are making in this series of videos.

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Thanks John. I’ve labored a lot to try to provide an unbiased historical narrative. The next video will bring it all together in a way that attempts to harmonize. Pray for me.

[@francisaltitude9763]

Hey can you make a video where you explain the procession of the Holy Spirit in detail? With analogies etc. It’s difficult for me to see how the procession of love/will produces a third person (for the procession of intellect, it’s not that difficult) thank you and God bless

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Hey Joseph, I plan on diving into the processions in a future video. But perhaps this might help. The Son is not “that” whereby the Father knows or else the Father doesn’t have essential knowledge in virtue of possessing the Divine Essence. But rather, the Son is the fruit or offspring of His knowledge. Likewise, the Holy Spirit isn’t “that” whereby the Father and the Son love each other. But rather, the Holy Spirit is the IMPRINT or impulse that proceeds from that love. Think of it this way: when I see ice cream it begets a procession of ice cream in my mind. Then, because I love it, it causes an imprint and impulse to be United with that ice cream. It’s because of the imprint in the mind that we desire to be United to the thing known. Hence why we then sat with our voice “I want that.” This is a poor analogy for many reasons, so feel free to ask more if you need further guidance. -Irenaeus

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Also, we will be going very deep into the processions in the next video. It turns out that the Essence and Energy distinction necessitates a deep reflection on the Processions to show harmony between the East and the West. The next video will be by far the deepest, and I hope to provide some clear visuals for the slides that demonstrates my thoughts for all to follow.

[@francisaltitude9763]

@@MountAthosandAquinas okay thank you for that explanation I really look forward to your videos. They are of high quality, God bless 🙏🏾

[@Faustus_de_Reiz]

Absolute fire!!!

[@telosbound]

Fantastic work

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Thanks! @telosbound

[@NicoFTWandMichael]

Ireaneus, how does st. Gregory the Great say that it might be possible to see the eternal light?

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Like Palamas, Gregory would assert the vision of the Light is “in the Spirit.” He seems to affirm what Albert the Great would eventually call “the linking up of the divine and human intellect.” Hope this helps. -Irenaeus

[@NicoFTWandMichael]

@@MountAthosandAquinas But if he believes that God's brightness is His essence, then, what does that mean for the brightness of the Tabor Light?

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

@NicoFTWandMichael That’s a great question. Have you watched the rest of this series? If you haven’t I suggest watching the last episode.

[@NicoFTWandMichael]

​@@MountAthosandAquinas I will. Btw, are you aware of any more Westerners who carried on the western patrimony except those in the video? Pre-schism, that is.

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

@NicoFTWandMichael There are a few but they don’t go into the depth (as far as I researched) that the Fathers I listed in the video go into. Ambrose in his commentary on Luke calls the Light of Tabor the Godheads “Divinity” which crushed the eyes of the Apostles. He doesn’t have any clear formulation like Augustine though he is clear nobody can see God without the eyes of the heart. Hilary in his De Trinitate against the Arians has a lot of Augustine language but he also has the language of Eastern Theology. Most especially when he seems to reject the convertibility of two predicates of God in his 8th book. He seems to favor more of a formal distinction. Saint BEDE has a little, though nothing clear. As far as I have read and searched the ones in the video are the clearest. Gregory the Great most explicitly whom Aquinas really favored as an authority.

[@jaredwilliams1031]

Isn't one of the assertions of the Neo-Palamites something to the effect that there has to be an Essence-Energies Distinction so that we can participate at all in God's Grace? It's strange, because I don't see how they refuse to just concede that someone might believe that participating in God's Grace is a thing that does, in fact, happen without feeling that this move is necessary. It's also strange that a proposition or set of propositions is so significant when one of the other criticisms being levied by this crowd is that the West is too 'propositional' and too rational. I seem to hear a lot of conflicting talking points when it comes to this subject; i.e. the West is antinomian precisely as it is also Pelagian and too works-oriented etc. etc.

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Hey Jared, You are correct that the West is very often perceived as too “rational” and “propositional” at the expense of Theosis. The Catholic life is misconstrued by many as purely “intellectual” theology which detaches us from a disposition for experience. While there is some truth to this, nevertheless the accusation is misapplied. I venture to say this accusation comes from one of two avenues. The first being uninformed with the desire to set us in opposition to them so as to differentiate “the true Church.” Second, from those who are informed of the mystical side of the Catholic Church and yet intentionally suppress the truth so as to keep those beneath them in alignment. And this isn’t surprising. My experience since I have started this channel has been eye opening to say the least. Not only do Neo Palamites misconstrue the Catholic position, but even it’s own Patrimony. Nested inside the Walls of Orthodoxy is a group that has been “shouted” down and eclipsed by radical Palamites. These (what I believe to be) true followers of Palamas are not so antagonist to Catholics and consistently give witness to a common Ethos. To be sure there are differences (or else they would be Catholic). But they too hold (with us) the Churches teaching on Natural Theology, the Essence and Energy distinction being conceptual, and the use of propositional arguments. These are polite to engage with, and much deeper thinkers. In short Neo Palamites are not just a problem for Catholics, but a problem for Orthodox too who seek to live out their faith intellectually and by praxis.

[@traceyedson9652]

@@MountAthosandAquinas I’m EO and have no idea if I’m a “neo-Palamite.” That stuff doesn’t really get down to non-basement dwelling laity! And I’ve been enjoying this video series. Where this all touches the average but attentive church goer is that we really do believe that God is accessible to us by grace through the disciplines & virtues which purify the heart (nous). But we equally affirm that in His essence (ousia) God is un-knowable. To hear someone express that God’s grace is a “thing” and is created rather than how He expresses and shares His divinity is just jarring. I found myself rather stumped by the idea that God’s essence & actions/attributes are the same thing since we are called to do His works and participate in His attributes (goodness, truth, justice, etc.). This means I would share in His ousia, which of course is heresy. So, to this appreciative layman, I’m not at all sure how the West avoids heresy in its hope of “participating in the divine nature” without this energy/essence distinction. Thanks for your good work. (That I probably misunderstand both East & West in this is likely!)

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

@@traceyedson9652 Hey Tracey, I apologize for not getting to your comments sooner. I’m a little preoccupied right now (family life) but intend to get back to consistent interaction and more content. I am glad you have found the series to be interesting and informative. Before I give my thoughts on your comment I would like to suggest we touch base after finishing the series. Would like to hear your thoughts on the final analysis video. Appreciate the comments! Blessings, Irenaeus

[@traceyedson9652]

@@MountAthosandAquinas no apology needed - I only just posted it today so by my reckoning you’re are very on top of things!

[@stoievn1519]

Essence*

[@newglof9558]

Deboooonked

[@MountAthosandAquinas]

Thanks…not even going to attempt to explain how that happened. Lol