The Fall of Campaign 3

[@Finn_Films]

Critical Role is as popular as ever...but some fans seem to have had enough of Critical Role Campaign 3.

[@AnshumanKantiBose]

Too much deus ex machina. Too much mollycoddling. Zero stakes. Past characters just show up and save the day. Case in point, the resurrection of Laudna being funded entirely by VM. Who had no real motivation to do so.

[@blakeforest6904]

​@Anshuman Bose but they kinda did... it was because Laudna was Vex's doppelganger who got put up on the sun tree.

[@AnshumanKantiBose]

​@@blakeforest6904 they didn't bring back any of the other ones which were hanged

[@DieselKillya]

Campaign 3 didn't hit for me. Neither did campaign 1. I'll rewatch campaign 2 forever. People should just watch and get their own opinion.

[@davidnash4905]

​@Anshuman Bose did any of the other corpses show up on their doorstep?

[@8fer27]

100% dorian should had stayed, i personally didnt watch the original exu, but i grew to love dorian over the early section of campaign 3

[@corybalitewicz1941]

I miss Dorian so much 😭

[@dogpound9851]

I swore to god they finally got 8 members again after over 200 episodes

[@Meebeedeep]

They completely lost my attention when Dorian left.

[@webhead4414]

Nah Dorian shouldn't have stayed, he didn't really add enough to become a main PC. Campaign 3's many issues have nothing to do with Dorian leaving. One of the few positives actually. He's not even a top5 guest PC.

[@Exaltable]

@@webhead4414 sure seem to remember people saying the same shit about orym

[@amritlyall8254]

I'm a fan of Campaign 3, its different from campaign 2 which was different from campaign 1. I like them changing things up and not letting things become stagnated and stale, having said that Campaign 1 will also have a soft spot in my heart as an OG year 1 fan of CR and Campaign 2 is probably the best in overall quality but i enjoy Campaign 3 to and can't wait for Ep51

[@ladyluna3902]

Campaign 3 really should have been a one-shot, imo. The party's a bunch of gimmicky cartoon characters.

[@The_Crimson_Witch]

@@ladyluna3902 And campaign 1 *didn't* start like that? It's not about where the characters start, it is about where they end.

[@Anonymous121212]

@@The_Crimson_Witch It's also how about how they get there and when they get there. I mean it's cool that we have characters who aren't pliant to change because they're already "relatively well off" as their players said. For the rest, however, I feel like it's high time they "know where they want to end."

[@cryofpaine]

@@Anonymous121212 We're only 50 episodes in. At this point in the M9, we hardly knew anything about any of the characters. And they certainly had no idea "where they want to end". We were still uncovering a lot about the characters.

[@Anonymous121212]

@@cryofpaine in 50 eps of C2, Nott killed a baby manticore, Nott and Jester did a spontaneous heist, Caleb and Fjord were in conflict over leadership duties, Molly kept spewing truths/lies that nobody knew what was going on, they unknowingly met the BBEG, Caleb revealed the dirt of the empire and his childhood, Fjord revealed he might not be truthful about his past, they unknowingly met people from powerful groups, etc With C3 we didn't get moments as powerful as those in the same number of eps. The funny parts were meta rather than in-game fun like "oh lol bertrand is back and he super old" or "oh lol ex-husbands are bickering" none of which improve the story or characters :(

[@reyocasio9554]

Not gonna lie and I know I might be in the minority but I feel like not having TalksMachina hurt the brand in a total it for sure helped anchor the brand with the fans it gave us small tidbits to hold on to and feel like part of it Example with a prerecorded actual play is D20 adventuring party helps you feel like you're part of the table and choices

[@Anonymous121212]

YES. Bryan is a good interviewer and asked all the right questions. He could guide the players into revealing important stuff because he knows them personally. Mica is cool but she feels more like a fan and a yes-woman than an actual interviewer.

[@stephmo371]

Yes dude i miss talks so much. BWF was such a fun interviewer. I honestly think Dani would be a good replacement if they brought talks back

[@turquoise7817]

@@HeatherGg15 it's a play on "yes-man", they're not being misogynistic lol

[@kirahlarchirin4958]

Brian W Foster was an amazing part of Critical Role, and the show they have now is just simply not as good

[@Anonymous121212]

@@HeatherGg15 Mica Burton is a woman. Hence why I didn't call her a yes-man.

[@DuxBellorum13]

This campaign is really feeling like a group of misfits really caught up in an event well above their weight class and just trying to do what they can. I feel like the next few episodes are going to make or break this campaign and I think a lot of fans are going to have huge opinions about what happens next.

[@cashcash8365]

Is this not the same for the other two parties?

[@feitocomfruta]

The stakes are much higher, I think. C1: the Chroma Conclave are ancient but mortal dragons C2 and reunited: Ukatoa is a leviathan level serpent, and the Neo-Somnovum is a mortal trying to ascend. C3: a LITERAL GOD EATER/PRIMORDIAL may be released on the world. Which is why Matt has involved the Hells as PCs but The Mighty Nein and Vox Machina as NPCs: it’s too big for any one group to handle and even with all three involved there’s no guarantee it will work.

[@DuxBellorum13]

@cashcash8365 this on a much larger level. It would be like dropping Briarwood arc Vox Machina into the Calamity. Depending on what actually happens and what goes down, we might be seeing a number of characters for the last time. Everyone is complaining about Kyleth ex machina and such but what if they worked in these crossovers to give them a final Hurrah before No Mercy Mercer kills them off if things go south.

[@feitocomfruta]

Of course, no spoilers on last night’s episode, but it did prove that scale matters for sure.

[@GodammitNappa]

It has felt like an animal where the villain just gets stronger and stronger and the stakes higher. I do think Matt, as a writer, would have been wise to give the group a smaller enemy to defeat first. It feels too diverse, a ravine between the skill of the party and the threat they are facing. And if his intent is for the party to fail and thus to be thrust into a situation of trying to seal the god Eater away, showing a beam of hope only to remove it is a surefire way to anger fans. And it's not great story writing. Hoping I'm wrong, hopefully they know what they are doing and I do feel bad for Matt, its a ton of extreme pressure and a massive world he's worked on.

[@vinyl37246]

Campaign 3 lost me when they forced a bad group name before they were a cohesive unit. Point blank, I don't like being marketed to. When they turned the game into a marketing vehicle they lost me...

[@kori228]

yeah Bell's Hells is an absolutely terrible group name. While it's impossible to match the string of nines that lead to Mighty Nein, Matt and Travis _knew_ and _planned_ for Bertrand Bell to die because that wasn't actually Travis's character for C3. It's wholly unearned-the party never formed such strong bonds with him for his death to really impact them.

[@Zac_Frost]

So I kinda fell off of Critical Role as a whole. Not just Campaign 3. For a myriad of reasons, but none of them are really due to "change." 1) EXU: Calamity. Before you chop my head off, hear me out. The whole idea of detailing the events of the Calamity seemed cool on paper, but the execution was a bit.... off. Like, they had to retcon a few things from established lore to make it work fully, and the characters were just a bit... off. It just didn't live up to the quality and hype promised or expected. Also, to understand the big threat facing the party at this time in the new Campaign, you kind of have to have seen it to fully grasp it. And as MCU and Star Wars fans know, there's no more fun part of entertainment than the homework! (sarcasm) 2) The Imogen Action Hour. This whole story seems to just revolve around her in an unhealthy way, but she's not really strong enough of a character to carry this whole narrative. Chetney's backstory and whole feral werewolf problem were just kinda brushed away in a couple episodes, but Imogen's is taking the whole damn Campaign. I get that Travis made Chetney as mostly a gag character, but still, Imogen kinda looms over the whole party when she's not really that compelling of a character. Sure, these characters might be interesting, but their development, aside from Imogen, is just rushed. 3) "This show has to reflect the world we live in today." I don't see why the entertainment industry is so hell bent on making fantasy worlds that are basically just modern day Earth, but magical. I think entertainment is at it's best is when you're not constantly reminded of modern day, real world social and political issues that are handled with all of the grace of a falling Anvil covered in Napalm. That's not to say that having a kind of message in your work is a bad thing. The best stories do. The problem is that entertainment today puts the message first, and the story/entertainment a distant, forgotten second. Exandria started off as pure fantasy and fun. Well, very, *VERY* heavily inspired by Skyrim and Diablo if you analyze it, but still fantasy escapism. Jrusar may as well just be Los Angeles on spires. Every other city we've gone to this Campaign has been the same core, but with different window dressing. 4) The issues with the pacing. As you stated, the pacing of Campaign 3 is all out of whack. They're facing the potential Big Boss while they're Level.... 8. Let that sink in. Vox Machina didn't face Vecna until Level 19. The Mighty Nein didn't face the Rushed Ending until Level 16. This new threat seems to be bigger than both of those previous threats put together, and they're going at it at Level... 8. It'll be the mother and father of all storytelling asspulls if they survive one way or the other. 5) No one's ever truly dead. The main problem I had with Vox Machina is that all of them died at least once, but never really stayed that way. I get that they've usually got someone who can revive them in the party, but that's more my issue with D&D as a whole. The problem is that resurrection and such trivializes death in a story where you're trying to maintain stakes. It makes death have as much meaning as it does in Dragon Ball, but even easier to revive someone, as you don't have to wait a year. I was seriously expecting the Otohan Thull bloodbath to have permanent ramifications, like meeting a new character or two. In the end, it actually turned out to be a net positive for them, as Briarwood's influence on Laudna was weakened or outright removed as a result. Death in a story is supposed to mean something. It's supposed to mean that that character's story is over. Their narrative screeches to a halt. But, nah, let's just make it so dying is actually good for a character and doesn't give them crippling PTSD or anything like that, despite the fact that we want to shove realism into every other aspect of our story. I could go on with more, but I'm tired, and don't feel like writing a short book tonight.

[@PeterSather]

I think you nailed it across the board. Critical Role is definitely starting to balloon into this insane Star Wars MCU universe that has to mimic reality and be a commentary on real world politics and its like.. ugh why has all the FANTASY gone lol??

[@Zac_Frost]

@@PeterSather Lol I forgot I posted this. But yeah. I really enjoyed C1 and the first half of C2 (before Matt changed the story because a fan guessed the ending at a con lol), but 3 was just... meh. Like, stop with the spin-offs and such. Focus on one concise story and try to make that land first before inflating the content production balloon. Matt's clearly trying to "out do" himself with it, but the story he's trying to tell is something he's not equipped with the skills to handle. And he's trying to tell that story to an audience that's largely not equipped to take a story like that in. I enjoyed the first half of C1 the most (even with Tiberius and his Main Character Syndrome) because it felt like a world I could enjoy getting lost in and was eager to see explored. Now, it's just Magic Earth. Magic Downtown L.A. to be precise lol.

[@williamross6477]

C1 was a story about a group of adventurers and their relation to the world. C2 was a story about 7 individuals and their relations to each other. C3 is a story about a world and it’s relation to 7 individuals

[@The_Yukki]

Which might be why it's not a big draw to me. I dont really care about the world that I have no connection to, I care about the characters in that world.

[@williamross6477]

@@The_Yukki which is totally valid and, in my opinion, precisely why a lot of people are having a harder time getting into this campaign. I love the world building and lore, so I think I get more out of it than many others, but even for me it’s just not as engaging as the previous campaigns.

[@mordyth]

Campaign 1 was the pinnacle of what live streaming DnD will ever be. The following campaigns are like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. They're still good, just not yet like vox machina

[@partimentieveryday]

@@mordyth I personally disagree, I think campaign 2 is vastly superior to anything else out there especially c3 and c1. They got really lucky with their character writing, apparently they can't do it again.

[@mordyth]

@@partimentieveryday each to their own. You do you mate

[@FearlessGamer27]

I’ll be honest, as a new fan of Critical Role, this is my first campaign and I am loving it. Didn’t know people were getting disappointed with it but I really love most everything about it.

[@marina7711]

Me too! I am new and loving this third campaign. The characters are amazing💖

[@I_hate_card_games]

this is good! Keep loving it and don't worry about what people are sayin.

[@dominikgose2609]

As someone who doesnt read any online chattet about cr, only watch the show, im so surprised how much of the discourse is on how 'bad' this campaigns been

[@erinriwen]

Please Don't lose that viewpoint. this is a game, for them, and they let us watch. the complainers need to hush because it's not a series, it's a game, their game. I love CR so much and I appreciate the game as a game. They are amazing and have renewed my love for DND and help me in my own campaigns. Enjoy enjoy and have a blast when you go check out the previous campaigns.

[@pxkqd]

C3 is good, as was C1. C2 is just better, nothing can top the Mighty Nein.

[@TheCrimsonOne508]

My biggest gripe is the apparent fear of confrontation and the over analysis of every issue the party faces. It’s bogging down the story and really hurting the pacing imo

[@waterbender6288]

The problem is that’s if you don’t over analyze shit in a dnd game, a situation will eventually crop up that will negatively affect the party, a situation which could’ve been avoided. Sure, oftentimes stuff just turns out to be a red herring, but at the end of the day complacency kills 🤷🏽‍♂️.

[@dwelfking8050]

@@waterbender6288 Heroes aren't made playing it safe. -Christopher Perkins, 2010 Acquisitions Incorporated liveshow

[@fleentstones117]

​@@dwelfking8050 Planning before facing danger isn't playing it safe. It's just smart.

[@HierophanticRose]

Sometimes every player rolls a headstrong hero type, sometimes everyone rolls a brainy, subtle overanalyzer; session 0s can get ahead of some of it but these tone overlaps can cause a game to feel stilted for some as all characters create these feedback loops on each other. often times that is how murderhobo teams are created as well, funnily enough.

[@michaelp3609]

@@fleentstones117 they have really bad analysis paralysis dude and that isn’t fun to watch

[@colinrobertson4611]

Honestly, the story just feels too big for their level, especially since they didn't really have time to do personal side quests early on. Having a patron meant that they were doing what the patron wanted and not roaming around dealing with their past like the Mighty Nein did, which I think is why these characters haven't felt that interesting. There are so many cool hints at their backstories throughout the campaign, but we never get into it because we need to do this mission for Eshteross or we need to deal with Ruidus. Also, as cool as the cameos from past campaigns are, it left me wanting to see what they were up to rather than follow Bell's Hells. Part of the charm of C2 was that it was its own story separate from the events of C1. Bell's Hells just kinda feel like NPCs in their own story.

[@VG-fk6nk]

That, and the fact that Bells Hells felt like... how do I explain it... you know that one DnD friend who REALLY tries to be "the quirky one"? Like "I am soooo different and quirky, you guys! Aren't I just the most different, and most edgy, and most mysterious, and most badass (in the lamest way), and the ...... ". Now, having (1) member be that way is fine. Mollymauk was kind of like that in C2, in a good way. So was Beau, in a bad way. But the point is - it was just 2 of them, and not constantly. With C3, it's everyone, and thus it's constantly. And that's just lame as balls. Throw in the needless political virtue signal cancer of: "ZOMG, I'm non-binary and gay and this and that!!11!!" - and it's just a complete turn-off. Crit Role is built on its characters. And if they suck ass, then the show also sucks ass. Shame.

[@braincellgenocide9553]

​@@VG-fk6nkgood to have opinions, but lets remind ourselves that this is a dnd game, not a netflix series, things will happen, and sometimes, some of us aren't going to like it that much, thats just how the show goes, i dont understand people who are actually super mad about It. It ultimatly dosent matter, for better or for meh. Its their game after all. Also this is their third campaing, they're not all going to connect with you.

[@VG-fk6nk]

@@braincellgenocide9553 No, lets remind ourselves that this is a show like any other, made to be entertaining in order to create profit. Easiest case in point: Why do you think they have sponsors and constantly advertise their products on the show? It's for profit. Your "argument", if I can even call it that, is bad. So bad. It's also comical you can't even finish the cliche saying "for better or worse", and use "meh" instead, in the soyest attempt I've ever seen to run defence for a show that does not give a fuck whether you live or you die. Hilarious, really. Campaign 3 does not connect with anybody. The characters don't, anyway. Sucks to suck.

[@a.r.k7863]

Yessssssss!!!! This comment sums it up perfectly! I remember thinking how the campaign was less that 20 episodes in and we were already getting inti a pretty big meat pie? Like where is the bumbling around flying by the seat of your pants interactions that usually happens in the first 30min? Also the fact that too many Campaign 1 stuff kept popping up? As a person who never watched campaign 1 to me it was overly annoying and I don't get why for an entirely separate continent there so many references to this other continent?

[@cjtrules1]

@@a.r.k7863 Why are there so many references? Hmm I'm not sure, maybe it's because Orym is an Air Ashari guard for Keyleth and Laudna literally has one of the big bads of campaign 1 in her head. Matt addressed bringing C1 characters into C3 early on by saying the world is interconnected and he always intended to have that happen. We are finally at a place in world building Exandria where things can overlap a bit. Previous campaign characters aren't involved much anyways so I think the problem people have is that it's not completely like C2. Also maybe the fact it doesn't feel like C3 is not "bumbling around flying by the seat of your pants" is because Matt has a more solid plan on the story he wants to tell and they all approached setting up the campaign differently in order to get started with the main plot sooner. We still get individual character moments like Imogen visiting her father. Meeting Fearne's Nanna. Ashton finding out who he is. Chetney learning to control his werewolf side. Laudna's backstory before she died.

[@Freeezy_pop]

This campaign feels more plot driven then character driven. I'm struggling to understand what motivates these characters have from doing or saying anything. Sometimes I feel like they don't know. But I'm struggling to stay engaged this campaign.

[@happyclam1266]

that's just you feeling stuff

[@hideo34]

Same.

[@brannenpfister2579]

It’s because this campaign is more railroaded. They are a production at this point. I’m entirely sure Matt has structured his campaign around a set schedule for monetary purposes. It’s not as free form as it used to be because of how big they’ve gotten. It makes sense. I still enjoy it, but it does lack that sense of freedom and spontaneity for me that campaign 1 had (imo)

[@annapierce2604]

I think the story feels rushed. There is a hard deadline of the solstice and I think it has not worked so well for this season. I think critrole works better when we have more time to leisurely explore the characters, including npcs.

[@TyJay20]

@Anna Pierce I'm not disappointed but I am surprised the solstice is already here. I was expecting it to really be an end game, final boss, finale of the campaign type event. But since it's coming to pass so quickly I wonder what's gonna happen and who's gonna step up as the new big bad after its over

[@nrossetti2046]

Being pre-recorded was actually a big deal breaker for me. The charm of DnD is in people coming together in an authentic way and going on an adventure together. People are not perfect. People’s genuine reactions to situations and outcomes are fascinating. With pre-recording, it can never be proven that there are no cuts, edits, or alterations. The ability for the audience to react in real time to what the players were experiencing was entirely removed, and with it much of the investment in the moment that viewers previously had.

[@keithredacted8154]

It surprised me that the fans treat this show like a tv series, which is perfectly understandable and I can see. For me though, I only ever treated it like watching a Let's Play. I personally couldn't really criticize this product like a TV Show since its so freeform for me. Them not focusing on making a story for funs but going with whatever flow seriously works for me more.

[@nanazoghbi5059]

My only issue with campaign 3 is really the main character syndrome that Imogen is getting. It really feels to me that she is the main driver from the beginning and that every event have to relate to her and that bug me. Even the whole laudna arc felt more like let's save Imogen best friend. Laudna death was about her and her resurrection was mainly her doing. I enjoy Imogen but we spent a year and a half having her in the front seat. Everyone's back story that we observed were also linked to her To Be Clear, I don't think that Laura wanted or even pushed for this. And I don't fault her or Matt for this. They play the game they want to play and that's it. I am just explaining what I feel made C3 less enjoyable for me. I think Matt expected the other people's link to the red moon to be stronger and more relevant but it didn't happen. Even orym for who it was supposed to be a revenge Mission had to have that go at the background.

[@dubbingsync]

Honestly I get that. But sometimes in Critical Role there is a huge stretch of episodes for a character’s story that I can’t get behind and then hardly anything given to the ones I want to know more about. My example for a storyline I just didn’t care for was Caleb’s yet I still enjoyed Liam playing him and he brought some great stuff to the show over all. But like you said, this Imogen story has been going since the Campaign started… in drips and drops of course but still… clearly this is the biggest story in the campaign thus far.

[@virujito]

This. I was struggling with why I like Imogen the least and is this.

[@ZyroShadowPony]

I will give it time given that c2 had fjord dealing with uk'atoa but to be fair his felt more well done. Mainly because it was something only certain people would know about unlike imogen with ruidis. Its easier to not know about an acient leviathan over a giant red moon. So i guess im trying to say that imogen's storyline seems...too grandiose early on the campaign

[@nanazoghbi5059]

@@dubbingsync Caleb was certainly a big role in C2 but when it was other characters moment he took the back seat. Fjord and Nott arcs were not about him and were totally about them. However what annoys me with Imogen is that everything was made to be somewhat linked to her backstory. From linking Fearn backstory to her to oryms. Even Chet has to handle some moon shit and laudna whole arc was linked to Imogen. It's just always about her even when it's not. The only time we ever had any time to look into fern past was either for moon stuff. Maybe I am just particularly annoyed with it cause I do love Fearn and Orym and ladna way more than what I enjoy Imogen and it saddens me to see them painted as a side characters to someone bigger story. I also really don't enjoy imogen as a character

[@jonathansolberg5072]

Sure We have a big focus on Imogen right now but what About Campaign 2? A big part of the Campaign had element linked to Caleb. With the Luxon and the Cerberus Asembley. Most of the stuff they did was conected to a member of the asembley. Caleb was the Imogen Of Campaign 2. I think if We wait and see what is coming in ep 51 and beyond We will see more stuff conected to the other membrers of Bell’s Hell.

[@Peytoneileen]

As the first campaign I watched, I found it difficult to keep watching after Dorian left. Robbie added an air of lightness and joy and positive vibes that I lowkey feel are missing now.

[@cmmndrblu]

Yeah I think Robbie sort of became the heart of the party- he's the character who probably wouldn't kill his best friend to save the world but would try to find another way.

[@SingingSealRiana]

​@@cmmndrblu orym would. Not either and Fearn would let the world burn for orym without thinking about it

[@potatopouf]

good news for u now then since he back

[@mikonyx7712]

​@@potatopouf Only partially, unfortunatelly, I feel like the absolute mess that involved Cyrus in EXU before Dorian has reunited with The Bells took away the joy and levity from Robbie' character.

[@8Smoker8]

Yeah I just watched recaps after Dorian. Boring and evil AF.

[@shawkorror]

1: The intro: An exercise in pure vanity of the actors and ignores all pretense of being about any characters, screaming "Look at me!". 2: The falsity: Everything is faked, from the introductions "omglols" faces to the hammy acting of some as they focus on playing to the camera rather than portraying whilst playing. 3: The pretension: The constant, shallow wokery and injection of "look at my gayness/token friend/virtuewanking" instead of any subtlety, depth or meaning. 4: Memberberries: "Remember this character? Or this one?" In the absence of complexity, breadth of personality or depth in the current ones, just shoehorn in a load of callbacks to get the audience to cream their jeans with nostalgia. Remember, it's all about keeping an audience, not any storytelling or D&D. In short, CR is curently a vain, vapid and virtueless business wearing a "geek-chic" mask, banking on relying on and pandering to narcissistic nostalgia, virtue-signalling vices and exactly the kind of mindless mass-marketed mess that D&D was meant to be an escape from.

[@farkaspeeter]

I just cannot seem to find any emotional arcs and heartfelt character moments in C3, hence my rapidly declining interest. All of the characters sound like cool ideas, unexplored: e.g. the old underdog who finally receives unexpected power, the reluctant warrior who eventually faces his husband's killers, the cleric without a god, the guy living in constant pain, the parentless child who gets to meet them (and basically do f all). It doesn't help that the story seems to be developing way faster than the characters. We have a level 8 party facing a threat of a god-swallowing eldritch plot point, so old characters have to come in, in an attempt to even the odds. I have a conspiracy theory that CR is pushing this campaign way faster than intended in order to have it finish well before 1DnD releases so that they can properly gauge and decide the system for a potential C4 (whether that will be 1DnD, a homebrew system, PF2 or whatever)

[@Anonymous121212]

Yeah in C2 we had a lot of cool character dynamics early on. Fjord and Caleb's competition for leadership, Jester and Nott's heists (which became the detective thing later on), Beau and Yasha's relationship... Now we have Witches be Bitches, which is basically when the three combat spellcasters make a combo. Not a story or character thing, just a label for a homebrewed game mechanic :/

[@lophostrixcristata6340]

I was so hyped for C3 because it meant new characters and new stories and I loved every little detail-reveal in the first 30 episodes because I would go "Oooh, I can't wait to find out more about that and how that will play out". A big part of why I didn't want any characters to die was because we would have never gotten to learn their full backstories. But ever since the whole Ruidus-story became dominant, it feels like there's not time for any character to open up or develop. It's like you said, all the characters came with cool ideas but that's all been pushed into the background, sometimes without hints of coming up again later on.

[@nicklikethesoup]

I often see the complaint about the production quality and the justification that it's people comparing it to their favorite characters/moments, but that misses the complaint. The complaint is that it feels commercialized. Each campaign has differing levels of production quality and considerations, but what fans enjoyed about the live show is that it felt like they were a party to something. Even if the group didn't interact with chat, those struggles of real life (making it on time, technical difficulties) made the show feel like our own personal sessions when someone is late or the internet drops and we can't google an answer or a player is dropped from the VTT. As the show has evolved into a more professional series, it has become more of a show, and less of a game we're watching happen live. This sentiment mirrors the other major conspiracy theory of "the show is scripted". It's not that the show feels more scripted, it's that it feels more professional and less approachable. There is an element of "we can't do or say this because we now have corporate concerns with regards to advertisers, etc." that's always hovering over the show now. When it first began, that elephant wasn't in the room beyond Geek & Sundry.

[@HotRossBuns]

I agree, to further the point, while the production quality has increased the professionalism of those around the table is anything but. Half of the episodes are joking and messing around, this used to be par for the course when it was a more lax, freeform live performance, but times have changed. They are way to comfortable. But now they have been doing it for years, the production value has gone up, but they still act like its 2015. Keep in mind all the fans who pay monthly to have the privilege to even type in chat, even though its not a live show anymore. I certainly wouldn’t pay monthly for a live show that isn’t even live, let alone a show with the DM showing any discipline. Either streaming your D&D games for fun and have fun, or make a show for money. They need to pick one.

[@GrimViridian]

​@@HotRossBuns they don't need to pick anything to cater to you lol, they've said since the beginning that it's their game and they're doing it how they want. They can choose to go non live if they want and still just do it for fun, and honestly it doesn't change too much its not like they interacted with anyone

[@squattingheads]

Thinking the show is not "scripted" (has predetermined scenes/actions/outcomes) seems utterly naive to me. The crew has made clear how much the success of their product means to them. There is no room to allow for improvisation. We are talking multi million dollars here. Basically the chance on a new disney.

[@GrimViridian]

@@squattingheads a d&d game being scripted makes no sense and the idea is asinine XD they would have to script SO much shit giving them astronomically more work rather than just playing d&d, take off your tin foil hat

[@nicklikethesoup]

@@squattingheads This makes no sense. Authenticity trumps scriptedness each and every time. Jokes that are scripted don't get the same laugh as one that is off-script. It's why the best comedic moments in movies and sitcoms aren't written.

[@Bear-bx7yo]

I feel like the biggest problem for c3 is the character's. In c2 I feel like you had more a serious party with serious backstory implications that affected the game. But in c3 the story is basically about Imogen. Not to mention the character's in c3 weren't designed to be as deep as old campaigns. A lot of this is by design for instance Liam made orym to be a tag along character. He's said this in interviews. Because of this I feel like c3 will be shorter than the other compaigns.

[@thechaotimagnet]

I remember taliesin saying something on an early four sided die, that all of them feel like plucky or weird side characters or NPCs matt would have interacted with the party. Then turned to Laura, "except for you". She is the only one with strong PC energy and drive. Come think of it, with the exception of Laura, is everyone else's character a call back to a past game. Ashari, feywild, luxon, aeor, Dalila. Sir Bell was a member of vox machina in a one shot and chutney in a call back to a Christmas one shot. Laura is the only one with something totally new going on. Edit: I should add I am someone who feels off campaign 3 very early, like around when Robbie Left. Which was another character beloved by many and was not a call back. I don't think those points are connected but just an observation.

[@thomasdahlberg5920]

There were several parts throughout both other campaigns where it seemed focused on one character. Also, Grog was basically a tag along character. Until he wasn't. It's not the established and pre written backstory that makes a character good. It's what the DM and player do during the campaign to expand on each character that matters. I trust the group to make things truly great. I really don't see the reason for all the disappointment.

[@ladyluna3902]

@@thomasdahlberg5920 Because, quite honestly, it is. This campaign feels like its on rails. The party is a pack of throwaway sidekicks who aren't nearly as memorable as their predecessors were. A literal healbot? A punk rock? Come on now. You can tell how little thought went into these characters. And no, FCG being a murderbot was not as good as reveal as either Scanlan or Nott's backstories. Not by a long shot. I don't care about any of these characters. Orym's intentionally bland, Fearne's wackiness isn't amusing if you're over the age of 12, and I'm not here for the Imogen show. I suppose I'm not a fanatical Critter, since you guys just keep justifying this lackluster campaign and insisting its as good as the previous two. I feel like we've all given it more than enough of a chance, and it's not shaping up.

[@sodasaintcommentaries4054]

Mmmm... not so sure I agree with that take. The story is mainly tied to Imogen right now because *right now* because Ruidus, which gave her the powers she has, is the focus. By your argument, you could argue that C2 was about Fjord and Molly because the focuses were Uk'otoa and the Somnovum, or Caleb because of his history with the Cerberus Assembly. This isnt' a fair assessment considering C2 is complete and C3 is not.

[@sodasaintcommentaries4054]

@@ladyluna3902 ​ Nobody's saying that you have to like C3, but your dislike has colored your assessment of it unfairly and it shows. Frankly, CR is not getting deep into the party's backstories right now because, at the moment, they're trying to stop something that is going to wildly change Exandria if they fail, and the party chose not to ignore that; there really isn't much room right now to consider personal quests with the threat of Ruidus, something that the party chose to follow. Matt didn't put them on that path per se, he just laid threads for them to follow... and they did. Campaign Two sort of left world-altering events alone (the war between the Empire and the Dynasty) and did its own thing up until the end with Lucien; they're not doing that this time around. And why should they?

[@Highwynd]

My issue with C3 is it's more boring, the player characters are less interesting and FCG, Fearne and Chetney are straight up joke characters, walking comic relief gimmicks most if the time. Also Imogen is clearly the main character and I can't stand her, she has no sense of humor, she's the most boring one and she gets the most screen time as well as those OP main character syndrome powers and focus. But to be fair, Laura always gets the spotlight for whatever reason, Jester was uber the main character of C2 and Vex arguably was for C1, but those characters were infinitely more enjoyable. Also Tal just cusses his way through most conversation now which got old in episode 2. Overall, the story is interesting but extremely slow, and not thrilling enough to base an actual play on. In C2 they worked for the mob essentially, then they stole a boat and became pirates, they were in dangerous jungles, fighting snake people in temples, swimming at the ocean floor, going inside the mage tower fighting a dragon, going to a magic tundra, going into an ancient magic ruin and fighting a flesh city and I'm leaving out the majority of the interesting events here. For 50 episodes, it's felt like one really long slog with nothing very memorable happening. There's a red moon, a slug woman, a creepy gangly bald elf man, some bald chick that killed laudna, Chet is horny. That's about it. The crawler race was cool, I remember that part.

[@marco0445]

What character is the bwst in C3 in your opinion? Has your opinion oberall changed on C3? I gotta say the eps are way better 2ith Dorian there and post ep 50

[@Highwynd]

@@marco0445 I stopped watching around the time of this comment, but I still want to get back into the show and finish it, I do like C3. In hindsight, I was a little too critical, C3 is a different vibe, same as how C2 was a different vibe from C1. My favorite characters are probably NPCs in this one tbh, I didn't resonate with any of them this time around except Laudna. That was my main point of frustration as I really did resonate with every player character in C2.

[@torresgio6148]

I think we should be patient and see what becomes of things. I think the fact that the cast wants to take more breaks and are working on the animated show means the campaign will be more drawn out and I think Matt is aware of this. I think things are going to be just as good but just stretched out more.

[@yat282]

They're already 50 episodes in. That's probably about 1/3 of the way in to the entire campaign if it's similar in length to them

[@torresgio6148]

@@yat282 that's true but I'd say it's gotten good thus far. It was probably just the first 20 that were the slowest. Things have

[@torresgio6148]

Gotten much better since. We also don't know how long this campaign will be. It might be a similar length but it might not.

[@brettchristensen6734]

Fast Forward 2 months and this rings even truer.

[@ao1778]

​@@brettchristensen6734yup. It only got worse

[@davencabrera4379]

I think the frustrating thing about C3 is that we as an audience can see all the pieces from other campaigns and from EXU …. BUT NONE OF THE C3 CHARACTERS ARE SMART ENOUGH like we don’t have beau and Caleb to figure everything out so they really feel more at the mercy of the world and are unable to take cohesive steps as they bumble trying to figure it out they’re really is no planner in the group

[@quinnholloway5400]

Yea the Bells are much less organized then the last 2 Which is saying something because the Nein were already a pretty misfit feeling group of wildcards Here, they really are all misfits without enough stable people to help balance out the wild cards

[@grahamwilliams9700]

Yeah it really feels like every one made a character that sounds cool but not one that would also help the group the amount of times where they just try to plan or figure out what is happening and then just don’t add 2 and 2 is really frustrating especially when irl they will make note of how this is what is happening but they info they don’t wanna meta game is stuff most people would know if it where real like the names of important historical or political figures or cultures or the general geography of the world

[@SingingSealRiana]

​@@grahamwilliams9700 well, playing a low int character like they are a genius would piss people of just the same

[@ajc7295]

Man C2 took ages to get to a point where characters were working together, trusting each other and not withholding information/items etc due to not trusting each other. It takes time to build a team that can work together cohesively, intelligently and who can plan well. Caleb and Beau weren’t there figuring it all out right from the start and you certainly can’t compare all the hundreds of hours of C2 to C3.

[@Law-of-EnTropy]

@@ajc7295 Yeah, perfevtly said. I've been reading comments and this is something that I see people ignore. The Mighty Nein did not happen on Day 1. It took them Veth's husband getting kidnapped to understand what was actually at stake. It took the group both Caleb and Veth revealing who they actually are to see that they're all walking together with different goals. It took them working together in Xhorhas to figure out each other and accommodate to everyone's needs, prioritizing their goals instead of just fucking around and finding out; which was what killed Mollymauk in the first place. It took C2 dozens of episodes to be where they were at as we know them now. Same goes for Vox Machina. By the time Critical Role aired, they were already double-digits in level. They already had parts of the group figured out, but even then it took them the Chroma Conclave to understand the stakes surrounding them. Which was also dozens of episodes. For C3, they're still in the middle of that process and it will take them lots of time. There's also the fact that every character in the table, with the exception of Imogen, were by design a typical NPC you'd encounter in your adventure. Orym is guard, Ashton is a thug, FCG is an Battle Smith's construct, Laudna is that weird undead person you'd meet in the middle of the woods, Fearne is literally Artagan, and Chetney is a cursed shopkeeper. To have the world suddenly mix them up together and be told that they are now in charge of things that used to be so far away from them is a huge thing to swallow. Given these conditions, they're meant to struggle in figuring out their group identity.

[@spudsbuchlaw]

I think the biggest reason why C3 hasn't stuck is actually because CR is a campaign first, show second, as the cast and crew have stated numerous times. If you're running different campaigns with the same tables across many years, its impossible to know how good each one will be stacked next to the other ones. Thus Is the nature of DnD

[@quinnholloway5400]

It's all the dice Some parts of the campaigns might be scripted to a degree But for the most part It's all Dice And the Dice can screw the players up at the worst times and save them at the worst times too

[@grahamwilliams9700]

The thing that turned me away for a while is that if feels like just Imogene is the main character and everyone else has side stories it also feels like every episode has a one conversation that lasts an hour where they characters say the characters talk about how they don’t know who is really evil and my back story so tragic and nothing ever really comes from it

[@Blubbermage]

@@grahamwilliams9700 Did you even watch campaign 2? its was 50% trauma dumping that nothing ever came of it's called character building lol

[@micahcreator7014]

I absolutely love that you said this. Personally, I am just appalled that people are actually shitting on them as hard as they are. They have stated NUMEROUS TIMES that it is "campaign before a show." Omg I love you, you are the only person that has said this in the comments from what I read. I think it is very ungrateful for people, as humans usually do, to judge something so harshly that is being presented to them at no cost of their own. I understand that people have connections and genuine commitment to watching all of the episodes, and they may feel let down or left wanting by this new campaign. That, in my eyes, is just a sorry excuse to put people up to the fire and grill them regarding their careers. They are people. If someone doesn't like the campaign as much as the others? Maybe they could just not tune in as often and catch up on the basis of the story later when more content is released. Sorry for the rant, just loved what you pointed out! Even if what I was talking about was a bit of a deviation from your point of it being a "campaign with friends" before a "show." Cheers!

[@sdgundum990]

It's become just another Hollywood production in many ways. When it's friends playing a game together they can be who they are, and there is a certain charm that comes from low production value. The show and the story are pretty good, but the prerecorded nature breeds sterility. That sterility creates a disconnect from the audience.

[@crimsonofthered9749]

Yes you nailed it my dude. The charms of the live streams is gone.

[@dontyodelsohard2456]

Yeah... I am surprised more people haven't harped on this point. I know it being live can be more stressful and all, but it is once a week... And they are playing a game they supposedly love. (Not to mention didn't they cut back to 3 weeks in a month?) I know they are doing other stuff... But c'mon, once a week for 4 hours (maybe 6 if you count prep and everything else)... That's just barely actual working hours. And for many 8 is more standard. How does this take time away from their families any more than, oh I don't know, pre-recording a 4 hour session? That logic just don't make no sense to me...

[@andreacallegari7137]

3 things killed my interest in Campaign 3. Dorian was my favourite character of the cast and I was devastated to see him go, by the end of Calamity I realized that I had developed a deeper connection with Cerrit, Patia and Loquatious in four episodes that I had with Chetney, Laudna and FCG in over 20, and the Otohan fight's aftermath, when Imogen simply wished the problem away

[@I_hate_card_games]

another thing is (spoilers) ............ the person who died should've stayed dead. It really lost a lot of weight when they just fixed all of their problems by talking to super ultra powerful level 20 characters.

[@themoviecritic1092]

@@I_hate_card_games Made for a nice arc though

[@lauralide4804]

@@themoviecritic1092 I agree! I thought it was great and totally worth it

[@DragonGamer204]

@@I_hate_card_gamesy’all never played a good table of dnd

[@corvus_kay6755]

@@I_hate_card_games I agree, it feels like there are no stakes. Like anyone can be resurrected at any time. And that kinda sucks. Though after the lates turn of events, Resurrection might not so easily be an option

[@monosito59]

I feel like a lot of people tend to forget that while yes, its enjoyable to watch them play this game because they're good storytellers and have backgrounds in acting, this is ultimately THEIR game. We just get to be along for the ride. Watching it like explicitly like a show is a disservice to the game they're playing. I am personally having a blast watching C3. It feels very different from the other two campaigns and that's ok.

[@SerifSansSerif]

That's true and bullshit at the same time. They use the games they play to sell their products. They are not a group of people playing around their living room. It's a multi-million dollar business, and though they would be happy for you to forget that, it's a VERY transactional relationship.

[@MangyForestCat]

Campaign 3 sucks so hard it’s honestly depressing to see someone defend it. What a loser.

[@calebrichardson6926]

⁠​⁠@@SerifSansSerifbfr, we get the world is mostly like this. But they only have like 2-3 mins at the beginning of each episode to promote merch, in no way do you ever have to give financially to enjoy their stories. Quite a few people do, but that's their choice to support the players and their brand but in no way does crit role force that onto you. I've binged both C1 and C2 and have never felt compelled to buy any of their product. I watch for the enjoyment of watching genuine friends play a game they all love, aswell as the genuinely amazing improv story in this world of theirs, and millions of other people do the exact same.

[@jenzo42]

​@@calebrichardson6926Making it prerecorded makes it feel more like a show. Having it in real-time makes it like a more relatable game feeling.

[@theonsight7]

I would say the exact opposite is true. the issue is not that the viewers are viewing it like a show, the issue is that the players are playing it like a show.

[@AedorDM]

imo, it isnt the breaks that cause this campaign to suffer. it seems to me that what the real problem is, is that they're spread too thin. you see it in the exhausted, beleaguered affect they have on the show. connections between story elements, lore, roleplay oportunities that they would have noticed in the first two campaigns they miss these days. the sense of wonder is often missing because its more like a chore than before. I hate to say it, but the stream is kind of ancillary to their real business now. merch, the amazon deal (which i do think is a great show btw), etc. I think C3 isnt as good as the others because it feels less these days like the cast of crit role playing ttrpgs cause they would anyway, and we get to watch, and more like a stage play on its 5th night with exhausted actors - or worse, business people generating tie-in oportunities for later. I know it always was some combination of these things in earnest - that they're actors, that crit role is a business and ttrpgs are probably better of for that anyway. but it does suck that their decrease in enthusiasm (maybe for want of a better word) is more visible, to me. Feels less cozy. feels like the immersion and verisimilitude is suspended by and because of the meta-text when everything is a self referential tie-in. i dont feel like im immersed in exandra, i feel like i'm watching the cast in their workday trying to get that bread, or fulfil contracts, or whatever. I don't want to sound like im saying they sold out. I think its cool that they make the money they do considering the inventiveness of the product and their talent, and how our hobby benefits from it. but if anything I think they should take more breaks. I'll say this though. the alternative would have been them doing more of the same. and you can't blame them for swinging, wanting to actually do something different and bigger in scale. maybe they'll pare it back next time, assuming there is a next time. even still, I keep watching C3 even if it does disapoint me a little. thats my 2 coppers anyway

[@heliosfromacrossastar878]

Honestly, this comment was what I expected from the video. You have nailed it, in my humble opinion. The breaks aren't a problem at all. I started Critical Role with C3 and loved the first 20 episodes, but as it went on it felt more and more like a play. I also feel that there are two other big problems: First one is that there is a constant clock that forces them to drone on and on without getting to know each other or the environment. The cast forces some breathing room by analysis paralysis, and this combination makes for an odd 'run and stop' pacing. The second problem is the disconnect between the story and the characters. The story is way too big for the characters level and they are the npc's in their own campaign. The many cameo's of more powerful pc's makes it more obvious. And also feels like cheap fanservice. The exception is Imogen, who is written as the main character. This doesn't work for a group at all, because every single second another character has a moment it is tied back to Imogen. You can see everyone (including Laura sometimes) lose interest because the backstories of other characters are given so little time. It sucks when you make a character and there is so little attention to their personal story and motivation. This group has such different interests than the story that is being told.

[@AedorDM]

@@heliosfromacrossastar878 on the money. I know taleisin has joked about being a bunch of NPCs but like yeah, actually, and it blows

[@neruba2173]

I feel the same and could not put it in words as you did. All I could say is a dont like it and I dont know why. I just saw Laura for entire episodes drawing in her sketchbook not giving a **** about the table or the game. I saw Matt roll for Marisha behind the screen... I saw Ashley taking 20 minutes of a 3 and a half hour game to take a turn in combat, one would think that after 8 years she would have read the player's handbook. I saw Talesin desperately trying to make RP moments but getting constantly ignored or dismissed with one-liners by the rest of the cast. I saw Liam sight, roll his eyes and look at his watch several times in many episodes. I saw Marisha overcompensating all of this with out of place and over acted RP disgraces. The whole thing its just painful to watch.

[@MercenaryMuse]

That was at least 8 coppers.

[@sephrinx4958]

Damn well said sir and or ma'am

[@Lngbrdninjamasta]

I have been enjoying C3 so far and have been excited every Thursday since it began. While I miss the live part of the streams, they don't take away from my enjoyment.

[@dubbingsync]

As someone who’s always had to watch the KZbin episode anyway I’ve never had a reason to argue for the Live aspect of the show.

[@caoilfhionn946]

Honestly I think why many of us don't care if it is actually live is because they still don't edit the stream. The fact Laura's burp at the end of a recent episode is still in the show truly shows how dedicated they are to making sure we feel like we are not missing out on anything just because they now record at times that better fit their busy schedules.

[@pandemoniumeris]

​@@caoilfhionn946 and they only edit to add and not subtract. Like the cool map views we get.

[@ulrichkristensen4087]

8-9 years on Matt still captivates me, and so does the cast, motivation is not always 100% after that many years, and that is just how life is, watch some othe other peojects, they are really good

[@mevensen]

I think it has to do with the characters. Like you said, Robbie was the heart of the party at the start, after he left, no one else was really positioned to take that role. Bertram was actually a loss, too. I like Chetny, but Bertram seemed more relatable and connected. Orin is a fine character, but pales compared to Vax or Caleb, and not having Liam’s gravitas in the story is felt. Additionally, Liam and Laura’s chemistry is great, usually, but not so much in C3. FCG is also good, but his story doesn’t catch my interest in the way that Scanlan or Nott did, perhaps he will in time, but I don’t see it. I think, also, this campaign feels a bit more on rails than the others did, even though both others did follow the breadcrumbs pretty closely, too.

[@I_hate_card_games]

brrooo when robbie left everything changed. His heart was a driving force! The biggest problem with this party is that there is no 'leader', and a lot of things feel directionless. Like ford or caleb were always there to force them to act in some way to move the plot forward. And yeah, this one feels super on rails... in campaign 2 they did their own thing unless forced into the war by unforeseen circumstances. Sorry to vent, I've got a lot to say about it.

[@braincellgenocide9553]

It happens, also to be fair, its their third campaing, and doing the same thing over and over wouldn't be fun, and they know that, so perhaps they tried to do things differently, and it so happened that it didn't conect to you, and many other fans. I hope it achieves a more fleshed out form in the Future Episodes, and if it dosen't, meh, ill problably watch anyway.

[@bigbangrafa8435]

I just think the characters aren't as deep as they could be, the Bells Hells feel more like a caricature of a Dungeons and Dragons party instead of a believeable set of beings in a fantasy world. The result is that they aren't as memorable as the previous parties. The shit Laura Bailey could pull off with Jester was just unimaginable before It, and you don't see that same gravitas with Imogen. I personally likes Laudna because she is probably the one with the most compeling arc considering how traumatic her journey was until this point, but that only makes the rest of the team to feel even more hollow. And yes, Robbie moving on kind of killed the progression of the party on a personal level, It was the inverse of Molly's death in campaign 2. I still think Matt can pull something off his big brains and put this train back on It's tracks, but only time will tell. Six months have passed since this video came to life, and I'm still not seeing the necessary improvement, but let's give them time. I think I only could truly reflect on how much I love the Mighty Nein after the conclusion.

[@h.s.6269]

I agree about the Liam part in particular. I think Liam wanted to take a step back since Caleb ended up being such a pivotal part of the plot in c2 and both of his characters got major love from the fans. I think he just wanted to let others shine again and not feel the burden of feeling like a main character. Orym, though having a decent backstory, is played very passively. He is kind but sad... and that kinda feels like that is it, not terribly complicated at all.

[@Ailieorz]

Yup they really miss Liam. I think it's sad he felt he had to step back he's always been the powerhouse performer of the group

[@Malir2]

Personally, I believe a lot of the jarring feeling that campaign 3 suffers from could have been solved with talks machina. It didn't have to stay as Brian, but having a weekly check-in to get the player's take helped a lot in campaign 2 (I know 4sided dive is there but it's not the same), but it also helped if I missed something or didn't catch the gravity of something it would get talked about the following Tuesday. Also by the time the pandemic hit and we didn't have it every week I was very invested in the player's and didn't need it as badly. Anyways that's my take on campaign 3, I was watching weekly up until EXU Calamity series then I've been struggling (only making it to episode 29).

[@lophostrixcristata6340]

I agree, Talks Machina got me into loving C2's characters even more because everyone had enough time to elaborate how they felt and why they reacted how they did. 4sided Dive is fun but it feels like too many ideas are crammed into one format and them having to rush really crushes any natural conversations that have occured so easily in Talks Machina before. In 4sided dive, as soon as it starts to feel like they're letting loose and start talking about anything, the host cuts in and ushers everyone to the next part. At this point, the weekly watchparties for LOVM had more of a Talks Machina feel than 4sided dive.

[@WildWolfGod]

Talks let us get into the player's and character's heads and I loved that. I've caught only a few 4-Side episodes and most of the content feels like filler/nothing questions like asking about a character's Social Media Bio.

[@tylerhilpisch7850]

In Dimension 20, they have Adventuring Party which act as a check in with the players and to clarify certain topics or questions, I think Critical Role is in need of this and talks machina filled this roll

[@zsnzHD]

It feels like Talks worked because there was a 3rd party there "interviewing" the players and talking to them about their characters. In 4sided dive, it's just the players & Matt, so they're less comfortable in really opening up. Also there is 4 players instead of 1-2 like they had on Talks, so this gives them less time to chat about their indiviual characters. As another commenter said, it just feels rushed. I would love to see Talks make a return with a new host.

[@realghoststories1210]

It may start with Critical Role starting to copyright strike at fan art. As they did mine. Once you turn on your fans the fans will turn on you.

[@ZachC-130]

My take is these first 50 episodes feel like the Imogene Mary Sue show.

[@dylancox631]

I just don't like the party. They're too chaotic. Chetney, FCG, Laudna, Ashton and Fearne are just way too out unfocused. The past campaigns each had 1 character like this. C1 had Scalan, C2 had Jester, but the rest of the party reigned them in with serious characters. But the fact that 5/7 of the group are these goofballs just makes the game a lot less fun to watch. I saw the huge twist of Episode 51, and while it was cool, I couldn't help but think "yeah but I don't care because I want the party to die".

[@darcybhaiwala7057]

I started watching at he beginning of C3 and loved it, but I'm halfway through C2 now and completely empathise with why that campaign has everyone's hearts. C2's NPCs are memorable and unique and by Ep. 50, there were already a dozen stakes resting on each character's backstory. I knew each character intimately and also the information withheld from me I knew was going to be important. I mean, the Avantika arc was probably the best of all of CR, it's gotta be so hard to top that. And Calamity was batshit incredible. C3 is fun as a catch-up watcher because I'm seeing the threads of the world come together in real time. (Nothing cooler than hearing Ruidus being casually mentioned in Uthodurn right now!) But I'm really struggling to connect with Ashton, Chetney and Orym. There's so much there in background but we're either really taking our time to get with it. I don't hate the greater prioritization of world

[@TonksTheFool]

The problem with C2 was that some characters backstories didn't get the same attention as others did: Cad's being one. The cast were too distracted to focus on it, which was sad imo. They treated it poorly because their characters were too busy ransacking homes to focus on Cad and his family. That was kind of the problem there, they had TOO much freedom and by then most of their backstories had been touched on so it felt like they weren't as involved until it was back on them. All that said, I love C2, I truly do. But the loose way of letting the characters guide the story had both it's merits AND it's faults. I think for C3, it's plot heavy with the potential to explore more once a certain event has happened. Because there's always multiple arcs. This doesn't really feel like the end arc to me, just the start of something else, and more opportunities might open up later.

[@feitocomfruta]

But also, as someone who has less experience with M9, what I saw of Cad was that his backstory was important, but his care for the others was more important. He saw what was broken and wrong with them, and helped them heal from it. And that MIC DROP READ of “I hope one day, you’ll find someone to mourn you when you’re gone.” That was a sucker burn than Caleb’s parents got… what, too soon?

[@christophertidwell2422]

To be fair orym is practically already done with him being in exu and all but with the Faye of the whole of everything in the balence I think it makes sense for backstory to take a backseat unless it's prevalent to the current Apocalypse at their doorstep while I would love to see more if the secret toy making assassins guild it just wouldn't make sense for them to worry about it right now

[@GodammitNappa]

I honestly think Matt is trying to spread out backstories to give each player a spotlight moment. The problem is until the spotlight hits it will feel like just another character along for the ride, especially if they don't make it beyond this coming battle 😊

[@Jackie_Tikki_Tavi]

@@GodammitNappa So far it felt like 50 episodes of Imogen and that's just disproportioned. Orym is a rather shallow character even if Liam wanted to take a more backseat role this time around. His entire backstory is swallowed by Imogen's. Even Laudna has a hard time existing without her, though I think it was mostly an accident. FCG though just doesn't feel like a real person most of the time. Sam took a chance, as he's wont to do, and it's just harder to manage this time. Fearn is a chaos ball but she also has no identity with her class which I think is what holds her back the most. Ashton and Chet are just waiting on the bench. The thing is players did try to push in many different direction but often time were met with a dead end from the DM. My theory? Matt has been collaborating with other creatives for the worldbuilding and is too sensitive to let that work "go to waste." In other words, he's been too precious to showcase someone else's work than to let the campaign run a more free flowing narrative which in turn made some characters just passengers.

[@DontGoOnTikTok]

It's hard to appreciate the full cast of characters when the story is mostly Imogen centered and a lot of star time goes to Marisha's old characters

[@the_spotted_quacker]

a lot of star time? Beau has been in 2 episodes outright and Keyleth hasn't really been doing much. I understand the Imogen point though.

[@insc080507]

tbf there was no way around mentioning keyleth with liam having the character he does.. and if u consider her as a npc rather than marisha's old character she's barely done anything so far, like she transported them to ws and had to leave immediately.. now it's obvious the ruidus thing is smth matt's been setting up for a long time and these characters from previous campaigns exist in the world and have a stake in wanting to save it, but again treat caleb and beau as npcs and they were just a couple of allies who had limited information abt what was down there... Ryn , Ira, even grandma Mori have done more tangible things in c3 than any former pc.. it just feels they do bc ppl get excited to see them/hear them mentioned

[@dozencatfish1667]

I can see the Imogen argument. It's interesting to think if Molly hadn't died then he'd probably become the main charecter of C2. Makes me wonder if Imogen should have been vanished in that near TPK. But the "Marisha's old charecters" camplaint just sounds like you're bitter Scanlan didn't have a cameo or something, and it's shit like this that puts me off about critiquing dnd shows. Stop being weird.

[@MortSalazar]

Imo it's hella impressive that despite growing into this multi-million moloch they retained the soul of the show which really just is bunch of loving friends having fun at the table. And I find it completely understandable that they wish foe some more time with their families, and time to organise themselves every once a month. Just because you love your job doesn't mean it can't be tiring, last thing I want is for them to feel burned out by something they're so passionate about. Like look at Travis Willingham, that's the goofiest, most down to earth, approachable CEO I ever heard about

[@TamTroll]

honestly my only gripe with Campaign 3 is the rotoscope intro. it's incredibly uncanny, ugly, and just not entertaining to watch. Live-action cast members or animated characters. Both of those are fine. Animated cast members is just... weird.

[@neurolancer81]

I’m a fan of C3 but I feel like this is a last hurrah of sorts. I will not be surprised if the main cast does not go back to Exandria. We may see a whole new world where CR can build new lore and probably a new gaming system of their own or the main cast will be taking up other roles and we will see multiple splinter campaigns set in Exandria.

[@lamardavis688]

With the announcement of their daggerheart rpg system I’ve got a feeling you’re right about that

[@shanetsosaikich4745]

I got to admit I do miss chat interactions. The time that Chat said told Travis where Laura's stuff was in her book. The time when Chat figured out that they were talking to Keyleth's mom...

[@anathem9982]

your second example was after they started pre-recording and they were recording an episode at the same time as one was airing

[@Figgy5119]

Although the Ruidus plot is very significant, it feels like that's been the entire story arc since the beginning, it's just taken 50 episodes to get to the climax because they needed to be around this level to face this threat-- and technically they're still not even close to done with it. By episode 50 of C2, that was when they were entering Xhorhas, and granted C1 was already starting them at a higher level, but they had faced so many boss level fights by that time and done so much. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that this group is not really an "adventuring party" in the sense of taking jobs and exploring and interacting with the wider world. Their group makes decisions on what to do based on a few very specific character driven mysteries they wanted to solve, and so it feels like they've been on this same plot thread for so long because they latched onto it too early because their motivations are woven into that underlaying plot but their level was not high enough to face that threat until now.

[@DM-CW]

All the characters feel like joke characters. I kinda want something dark, gritty, and serious.

[@camiart_casual]

People forget how disjointed early C2 felt as well. While the characters were a lot more integrated into the setting and that did work in its favor, we really don’t get anything resembling plot until the war breaks out and even then, TM9 sort of… ran away from it to go crime-ing with The Gentleman. Molly dying actually did wonders for character progression and viewer investment at a time where we were kinda going nowhere fast. And I say this as someone who’s favorite Campaign so far is C2! Lower lvl stories just kinda have that aimlessness to them in longer form Campaigns, even outside of Critical Role. The characters need time to meet up, get to know each other and find their place in the world so that they’re a cohesive unit by the time Big Plot rolls around. It may not always be the most exciting thing to watch but it seems like it was always fun to play which is what really matters. I never had any doubts that C3 was gonna pick up in a major way around Episode 30, which is when both previous campaigns did.

[@intelli-gent9863]

Tbh, if Molly didn't die then it would have been a really boring campaign. Molly was fun for a while but started being a drag when the nine got involved with more serious matters where they had to pick a side. A lot of the times he was a stick-in-the-mud whenever there was a moral quandary of right and wrong, or his choice would tie him down to something.

[@oIPsychotixIo]

I've said this before and will say it again, I think Molly dying was a pre-planned event because of these reasons, to firstly liven up the shower and get a real sense that this campaign is already going to be different from the first early on with a PC actually dying. I think it was planned on another level because after watching the early CR2 again you can tell that Tale was not fully enjoying his character and thus, killing Molly off would be an easy way for him to swap out.

[@camiart_casual]

@@oIPsychotixIo I never really saw it as him not enjoying the character. His rolls were just beyond shitty and it was frustrating him. Taliesin has stated he feels he missed out on higher level Bloodhunter as well. He seemed plenty happy to play Kingsley in the reunion adventure! Also I don't think the cast would've reacted the way they did had this been planned. The way Taliesin just walks offscreen after the death shows that he wasn't prepared for it either. It did end up helping the story but Molly was clearly made to be integrated into the main plot in a way Caduceus just wasn't. We just would've gotten Eyes of Nine stuff earlier in the campaign and not just kinda smushed in towards the end like it ended up happening. As for Taliesin readlily changing characters, he's always willing to do that. Remember that Molly was originally his Vox Machina backup for Percy

[@errolbugh3142]

It is inevitable that there will be a dip in popularity after almost a decade. CR is still rolling strong in the ttrpg community.

[@nicholashext474]

I really enjoyed the first twenty or so episodes, it felt like they were having fun getting into their new characters and getting back some of the chaotic energy that characterised the best of campaign 1 - seating Laura and Liam beside each other again being a good start! I have doubts, however, about the way the Ruidis arc is going. It feels like we're being rushed towards a BBEG climax that the party are nowhere near ready for. The last time they faced Otohan Thule - on her own- it was nearly a TPK, now they're going to be facing her in her own lair, surrounded by allies, and possibly with Ludinus at her side - probably the most powerful wizard on Exandria right now. If they win, with the aid of high-level allies, it's not going to feel like any sort of earned victory. I've heard some people compare this to Avengers Endgame; but we've already kinda had that in campaign 1 - Vox Machina had a selection of allies old and new come to their aid in the fight against Vecna; but they were all seriously high level, had some actual investment with the main characters, and even then they barely scraped a victory. Bell's Hell's are, with all the love in the worlds, a bunch of borderline mid-tier adventurers who're only really just starting to face serious enemies. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by how things turn out, but I'm also not setting my hopes to high.

[@DaGoon_]

I think this is a really fair concern. I've also been thinking about how the scale of this event definitely seems out of their pay grade. The Bell's Hells definitely aren't seasoned adventurers yet but I think Matt knows this. I don't want to assume too much but I don't think Mercer is the kind of DM who likes handing out victories. I think it really comes down to how well Mercer is able to able to balance keeping the narrative stakes high by including known high level threats like Ludinus and keeping the actual encounters believable for their level. I like this group but they're no where close to M9 was when they fought Ikithon or VM when they fought Vecna. Obviously those are endgame comparisons but somewhat comparable threats are present around these rookie adventurers.

[@nicholashext474]

Having seen the latest episode, and without any spoilers, I have no shame in admitting my concerns were wrong. When considering all the elements at play, I forgot to figure in that Matt Mercer is a twisted genius when it comes to DMing 😂

[@TheBloodypimp]

@@nicholashext474 i KNOW RIGHT???? last episode was.... just muah chef;s kiss. :D i can't wait to see what happens next.

[@xStarborn]

Agreed, too much plot armor though in c3

[@TheBloodypimp]

@@xStarborn your issue is you think they were the main characters so far. They weren't we were watching the prologue for their rise. At this point these people are chucklefucka that lands ass first into something wayyyyy bigger than them. And at any point they could have gotten off the ride but didn't. Think about it this way: They had no real impact to the story. Yes they called in keyleth but she was already on her way because the rogue faction of ashari (She would have figured out what was going on even without them). As for caleb and etc.... they didn't do shit to them or for them. Except maybe provide some lore. But i'm sure they would have had the info from ryn anyway. As for armor.... i don't know. If the world is built well.... and it is.... it's bound to have people interconnect. Powerful people stay powerful unless they die. ^_^ easy as that.

[@vwayls4892]

There is no conection between characters, no chemistry (not talking about love, but general, these characters are not workign well together). Plus Imogen is the "main" character as the story is focus mainly on her, but her story is developing slowly to really grip me, and Imogen herself is very bland meh character without much of personality.

[@TheBingusBongus]

Early CR was a group of friends playing D&D at a table, who just so happen to be actors and bring those skills to the game because it’s fun for them. Campaign 2 felt like actors playing roles on-screen, while secretly vying to be the “fan favorite”…who just so happen to be friends behind the scenes. Campaign 3 feels the same way Campaign 2 does, but they’re all sort of actively fighting a burnout (that nobody wants to mention because they’ve made it clear that like any other actor, their slot can be filled by another person) by playing the most creative characters they could think of, pulling from UA and fringe sources that aren’t exactly in your typical PBH.

[@bgibeast]

This breakdown makes a lot of sense. C3 feels like they are all trying to "out-weird" each other in every aspect of the game. They are trying to make it fresh and new by constantly making sub-optimal choices (half running and half fighting vs Otahan, constantly trying to run/de-escalate vs the centaurs or magical bull creature). It seems they are just trying to be as hairbrained as possible and DM Mercer is letting them get away with whatever they choose even if it makes little sense. I watch him constantly make up stuff on the spot to support the players decisions and just bend/break rules to accommodate when nothing else will word. For me its off putting and doesn't really fit well for the type of adventure I enjoy watching. I understand the idea of overwhelmed misfits going above and beyond to try and solve a big problem as a trope... but these characters feel like they are just pure flaw and no real ability to make quality decisions to solve problems... and Matt just allows them to get away with it anyway somehow. The fact that they were pretending(?) to freak out in the last episode when the swarm creatures were doing like 10 damage a round to their characters was really disconnecting to me. They weren't sure if they should fight them or run or try some crazy spell instead of just dealing with the creatures like the level 9 characters they are. Just kill the things and move on, this wasn't some epic emotional combat it was just some bugs and they were hyperventilating like it was some dramatic situation. The fake-drama is becoming a bigger trope than any standard D&D tropes that already exist.

[@Babidi111]

@@bgibeast great analysis man, I agree and appreciated it summed up like that!

[@dndbasement2370]

@@bgibeast i'd say... campaign 1 was fuckery for sake of fuckery, thats what D&D is all about. campaign 2, was them realising they were on camera and shouldn't be doing fuckery... to which sam and laura said, fuck it im gonna still do fuckery ! and they understood it... but because of the rest, it fell quite short of being D&D. here comes campaign 3 and there we have them literally saying... we're TV Drama now, no fuckery, with sam still giving himself a bit of it, for sake of keeping to himself... but its still very much obvious that he is kept back for sake of the story which apparently is more important then playing the game now. but i will say... compared to campaign 2, campaign 3 has them coming back a little on the fuckery, hence why the charcaters are so far away. its not because of the need to be suboptimal or anything... its because fuckery is what D&D is all about... we all remember the gold fish, but do we remember scanlan shaming a ghost to death with vicious mockery... not much no... but the gold fish we do, thats the story we see everyday on D&D. heres D&D in a nutshell... if you think otherwise then you havenever really played D&D... - a bunch of nobodies that have no cohesions successfully ruins a villains plan by just doing the most chaotic and the most stupid thing they can think of. heres whats critical role campaign two felt like... - a bunch of nobodies realises they are all broken and work together as a group to solve the problems of the worlds and fix their own problems. get the drift... its the fuckery thatgets in involved in D&D. because we can do whatever we want. here in critical role, it feels like the mosre they go, the less control they have over their characetrs and the more they just follow the plotlines matt has decided upon. in the end thats not D&D. campaign 3 does have it better on that point, brining back the fuckery a little, but thats definitely not enough, they have decided to play the audience game instead of D&D. thats the ineherent problem every streamers have to contend with... and thats why most streamers dont do long stuff like critical role... they do their story and then move on...because they are not playing D&D, they are playing story telling... they are playing the audience game.

[@harbinger3546]

@@dndbasement2370 good point, but the constant ellipsis made that shit hard to read through man ngl

[@bgibeast]

@@dndbasement2370 I disagree with 90% of this.

[@Nordrig]

The thing with campaign 3 is that it feels almost like everyone picked a joke character. A werewolf gnome? a robot called Fresh Cut Grass? a halfling fighter? This feels like they are just trying something for kicks and giggles. They picked some random ass races that I personally think shouldn't be playable, like genasi or fauns. I get it's fantasy but... I don't think gnomes would do great in a fight. Campaign 1 felt true to the players. Like they picked something that they could be in a fantasy world. Something to represent themselves in. The group felt more cohesive. The characters were a bit more complex.

[@soreg666alex]

My personal issue with c3 is that it''s just plain fucking boring. I watched C1 and C2 twice fully and sometimes am returning back to specific episodes, but with C3 I just can't keep my attention long enough. Started it three times and every time my interest fizzled out in like 20-25 episodes.

[@djsteadypace]

Campaign 1 is a group of friends producing content for fun together. Campaign 3 is a business endeavor to engage a consumer base.

[@defiante1]

Should probably do more of a breakdown of Campaign 3 and what are some of the issues, you gloss over them and focus on a lot of business stuff.

[@b0sanac]

As a relatively new fan, I started watching C2 a couple months after C2 finished, this is what stands out to me. C3 feels very slow on the pacing, hell it took me many months to get past the first 20-25 episodes. Not for a lack of trying but I just couldn't get into it. Whereas for comparison after I finished C2 I went back to C1 and watched it through completely in just about 3 months. I thoroughly enjoyed both C1 and C2, but with C3 it felt very strange, very different. I felt as though I couldn't really connect with the characters, and I still somewhat feel like that. Although now I'm up to date and starting to enjoy it a little bit more but the one thing I don't like is the single-handed focus on Imogen's story, I get that it's a "world-ending" scenario but I would like to see the other characters shine more as well.

[@mibiloo]

You summarized my exact feelings, tbh. I'm still enjoying C3, but there are a few issues that I can't quite put my finger on for why it just isn't sitting right. But at the end of the day, if the players are having a great time, that is really what the whole point is. I truly hope that the endgame is either just the beginning of something great and horrific, or this campaign truly ends super early and commits to that, I guess.

[@Talulaskye]

Yes I love Imogen but I feel like everyone is just side characters to her. I get characters need an arc but it just seems like every episode is just her and other players get overshadowed. Orym I feel gets overshadowed a lot especially with his detailed backstory, we know nothing of Ashton and Chet yet and would just like to know the other characters more. We got so much of Imogen, I don't dislike her but I just want someone else to shine.

[@Abyrae]

​@@Talulaskye I don't dislike Imogen either, but she's my less favourite character this campaign. I really have a hard time relating to her. I still think she'd make a better antagonist for this campaign than a hero. When Fearne was revealed to also be Ruidusborn, I hoped this would have way more impact on the story, but it went back to being more Imogen-centric pretty fast. Maybe once this arc is over, they'll focus more on the rest of the group.

[@Talulaskye]

@@Abyrae Yeah I think Imogen is a character difficult to relate back to. She is also a morally grey character as well. Thinking of the idea of how all this couldn't be bad until Orym speaks up to snap Imogen back to reality. I really hope we get to see more of Ashton's story. I feel like since Dorian left a part of Orym is missing not in a shipping way but as friends they were thing 1 and 2 always together. Their dynamic with each other was stellar but now that he is gone I feel like there is something missing with Orym nowadays.

[@Abyrae]

@@Talulaskye Agreed. Mind you, I don't think Imogen is a bad character, I just don't click with her as well. Maybe it is because she is morally-grey, like you said. (I have a hard time relating to modt morally-grey characters in other media too, so I don't think it's Imogen's fault, or even Laura's.) I really can't wait to see more revealed of Ashton, Chetney, FCG, etc. What little tidbits we had from their backstories was fascinating. We need more than just scratching the surface with them all, and I'm impatient to see more of them. And my poor boy, Orym... My actual fave character in C3, why do I gravitate so much to the sad ones? I don't mind him being more of a background character; Liam has said in 4-Sided Dive that he intended for him to not be the focus too much considering how big of a role Vax and Caleb had in C1 and C2 respectively. He wants the others at the table to have a chance in the spotlight too. But I do miss the interactions between Orym and Dorian (and Fearne!) a lot. I don't care if there was anything romantic or not between him and Dorian, or if it was completely platonic, but that was a strong, beautiful thing they had. After all the loss and hurt in Orym's past, he really needed that strong connection to stay centered, to give himself the chance to heal. Especially since he's more or less the moral one of the group and is role is starting to wear him down (something Ashton has started to catch on too when they were on the airship on the way to Yios). I don't know if I will cry or cheer (or both) the day he finally had enough and snaps

[@iandarke4826]

I think the reason I'm not feeling Campaign 3 as much is 2 reasons. First it doesn't seem like the players themselves are having as much fun. It feels like they're acting. Look at the excitement on Laura's face playing Jester vs how detached she seems in the new campaign. The other thing I'm not crazy about is the reason I feel like we can't grow attached to campaign 3 characters is because there's too much involvement from prior campaign characters. As a player, I completely understand the nostalgia and loving having those characters there, but as a viewer. If you want me to be involved with your new characters, then play them. I don't mind cameos... and I realize what they're trying to do. It's just really slow in C3.

[@hapsanaCovjece]

I hate that everything is Imogen centered. I hate when one player is more in spotlight than other. No backstories about Ashton or his trip to kitchen, Laudna's origin, where she became a shadow sorcerer etc.. It's just Imogen, Imogen, Imogen.

[@xEvilRaptorx]

The first campaign was mostly centered around Percival for the first half... second campaign didn't have any one character centered too much. With Imogen's backstory, it seems like alot of c3 involves her story. It's still up to the players and characters of the story follows it or not. [Full disclosure i stopped watching around e50]

[@shaunmullen6197]

When it was announced they were ore recording, I remember telling my brother "that's gonna kill it. Won't be the same energy".... Well.... Yeah. For the first time after 5 years we just stopped watching. Haven't watched in 3 months. Liam himself said at one time.jokingly "yes they come here for that, not the drama". It made me realize that's the issue. It's no longer a fun game of friends. They are trying to make a dramatic story. That's why it's story driven, not character driven. It's just...... Boring.

[@devilsadvocate6381]

- talks machina gone - fanart break to somber music gone - wasted opportunity with Dorian leaving - characters that don't have any real interesting dynamics - the players don't seem to be having as much fun anymore, it's become a job to them rather than a hobby, which makes sense but it doesn't stop it from leaving a bad taste in my mouth

[@UnleashedRex1]

I'm just not a fan of C3, from a handful of the characters to the evolution of the world it's just meh. It feels like the only payoffs to me, are when Legacy characters pop up, nat 20s, or good character moments. (except Imogen, I can't stand her and see her as Walmart Tiberius. To be clear not Laura, she's great.) The lore bits are good when they don't overstay their welcome and I don't understand the jump in tech (horses to basically mad max steam punk cars/mechs and miniguns) I'll admit I was hyped for this since the start because of C1 and C2 but this has just been a meh experience at best and I would have taken an entire campaign of the pre-calamity. That felt more like C1 and C2 then C3 has felt to me the entire run so far. This is all my opinion of course, If people are loving it awesome! I'm glad others can find enjoyment where I couldn't and I hope it stays that way for you! I just hope C4 will be a blast!(Yes, pun intended)

[@The1WithoutFear]

Speaking from a place of mild discontentment with the current state of the show, I will make some notes based on your analysis of why Campaign 3 feels lackluster when compared to the past. 1. Indistinguishable Goals. In Campaign 1, we as viewers were gifted character intros to give us insight into the characters that were already being built and crafted before our eyes with backstories and goals we were not privy to, due to the at-home origins of the game that brought this family-of-friends together: Vax and Vex were looking for answers/revenge on the dragon that killed their mother; Pike was seeking to spread the teachings of Saranrae; Grog sought revenge on his uncle Kevdak; Tiberius (for as short a time as he was likeable) was seeking mystical artifacts thought to be either myth or lost to time; Keyleth has her Aramente to complete; Scanlan wanted to tour the world; and Percy wanted to liberate Whitestone. All of these are clearly-defined goals that Matt masterfully interwove into episodes between arcs with subtle consistency of traits and behaviors that brought characters together under a common theme: Faith (be it in the divine, in oneself, or in others). In Campaign 2, we again got clearly-defined goals from most of our characters, with some coming into the fold as details were /slowly/ unraveled: Fjord needing to understand his pact with Uk'otoa; Jester wanting to see the world; Beau fulfilling her obligations to the Cobalt Soul; Yasha finding personal peace after decades of abuse; Mollymauk living every day to the fullest; Cadeuces restoring the Blooming Grove; Caleb finding redemption for his past and bringing the war crimes of the Empire to light; and Veth (as Nott) trying to get her body back so that she could return home. Once again, all clearly-defined goals with a consistent theme between them - family (Fjord's adoptive father; Jester's parents; Cadeuces' family, Veth's family, Beau's family, Yasha's late wife, Caleb's parents and siblings-in-arms, and - as an outsider - Mollymauk's lack of a family due to a lack of a past). In Campaign 3... what are our characters' definable goals, really? At most, we have only half a party with clear and consistent goals in mind: Orym was sent by Keyleth to solve the mystery of the Vesrah attack; Imogen (at the start) is seeking out answers about her powers, and later seeking out her missing mom; FCG wants to know his purpose in life as a created being, unsure if he even has one; and Laudna (again, just at the start) wants to learn what happens to practitioners of magic who break pacts with ability-providers from other realms. So what the heck is Ashton's primary goal? How about Dorian's (prior to his leaving), or Fearne's? Bertrand was in retirement from adventuring, so his death was the catalyst for opening the door to another character with actually measurable goals in Chetney (his desire to bring his woodworking to the world, seek revenge on Oltgar, and understand his curse better). Now, 51 episodes in, and we two characters with scrupulously completed goals (Laudna severing ties with Delilah for the time being, and Imogen finding her mom as an enemy), one character who is taking steps to achieve theirs (Chetney's trial), one character who will probably spend the entire campaign using their goal as a gag (FCG's coin-flipping), and one character who only now has the opportunity to piece everything together (Orym now knowing that Otohan's attack on Vesrah was to see whether or not Vax would show up if Keyleth's life were threatened). We still have no idea what Ashton, Fearne, or Dorian have planned for themselves (though I suspect it will be MUCH easier to learn from Dorian if Robbie ever comes back, rather than the other two), and depending on what we get with these next few episodes with Chetney, I /hope/ we continue to see development from one of the more memorable characters. Though speaking of Fearne... 2. Inattentiveness, Indecisiveness, and Irresponsibility. As a DM, two of the most disrespectful things my players can do are to not pay attention when I'm trying to ask what they're doing, and to not make a decision of their own accord without an overwhelming amount of prompting from the other players or myself. With that said, Matt must have the patience of a saint to be putting up with Ashley's shenanigans all campaign. 😑 Every time she goes, "huh, what's happening?" Or "where is my... oh, nevermind, I'll do something else," or "I'm gonna'.... I'm gonna'.... nope, um...," I can actively feel brain cells dying, and in those moments, I wish Fearne had a negative Constitution score so she could just be wiped out already with no hope of revival. This, combined with the rest of the party seeming to lack the will to fully commit to a plan even after all the details are ironed out, or - worse yet - ignoring one another when valid suggestions are made and then dismissed without discussion. One of the biggest examples being all the times Taliesin is seemingly ignored at the table whenever Ashton brings up options for reinforcements prior to the Hellcatch Key raid - Jiana Hexum, the Gorgynei were-beasts, Fearne's parents, or Orlana Seshadri (all of whom were viable choices to at least contact, even if they didn't ultimately show up for the Solstice). 3. The Lack of a Firm Hand. No offense to Matt, as I cannot even begin to imagine the amount of stress he is under as the creator and voice of this fictional world he's brought to us... but there comes a time when you need to put your players in check, and I feel like he just doesn't put his foot down when his players go out-of-line mechanically speaking. The chief example: Guidance. It's become a meme within the community, but that doesn't change that a number of highly-specific rolls would've failed, and critically altered the story path had Matt just put his foot down on the rules for the Guidance cantrip, which explicitly states in the Player's Handbook - "You touch one willing creature...". This indicates that a number of uses of Guidance from both Fearne and FCG should not have been allowed, as they were expressly not within touch-range of their target. This may not be a big deal to some viewers, but as a fellow DM, it just irks me, because it suggests that there are other stat-effecting rules that Matt might be willing to overlook if it means making the audience laugh, rather than telling a compelling story where the characters have to deal with failure. Finally (for now), 4. Queerbaiting/Shipping. It has become grossly apparent that an estimated 75% of the CR community are toxicly infatuated with the habit of shipping, to the degree that I would say ProZD's shipping skit doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of CR fans' extremism. It borders on the pitiful, truly, as all it would take for Imoudna shippers to get their pants soaked is a scene of Imogen saying "good morning," and a thousand tweets and Tumblr posts would be up immediately turning "good morning" into "THEY'RE F**KIN'!" You people do realize that Laudna is both decades older than Imogen, AND a corpse, right? So unless you're suddenly down for grooming and necrophilia (two things I think are still no-no's, even to the most extreme members of the LGBT community), I would just appreciate their sisterly affection and compassion for each other. The same distaste goes for any member of the CR cast or crew who endorse porn/pornographic thinking, as porn literally exists to debase, degrade, and exploit - nothing more.

[@razbuten]

On one hand, I have not been able to get back into CR since the end of C1. I watched about 30-40 episodes of C2 and 10-15 episodes of C3, and while I appreciate a fair bit about both, they just aren't things I am interested in investing my time in. As you said, Critical Role has changed because of course it has! It has been 8 years of streaming the game, and they've done a lot to craft the experience that they are most proud of and excited by. With that said, I do think that there was kind of an energy with C1 that no other campaign has had (obviously I have not watched every episode of C2 or 3, so I could just be wrong). It felt very much like the home game everyone wishes they could play in where 2 and 3 have felt a bit closer to performances. They've embraced more and more the theatrics of it (which makes sense given their backgrounds), and it has felt more like a show than a game. That isn't inherently bad; in fact, I think a lot of people prefer the more modern approach, but I do definitely miss when things felt a little more real game like (even though their table has always been a high level of play that very few tables will hit in terms of rp).

[@deathtyrantart]

HARD agree. C1 felt like dnd to me. C2 felt like a play.

[@jubei7410]

For me, the endless dialogues and the overusage of guidence kill the vibes. I find them a little tiring. Overall, a good campaign but inferior to previous two.

[@doomhippie6673]

My main problem was for me that I couldn't connect to the characters. It seemed to me that they just tried to make stranger and stranger characters. And I am a bit old-fashioned when it comes to characters. But robots, monsters etc are just not my cup of tea. But if they enjoy it, more power to them, but I dropped out after a dozen or so episodes.

[@camiart_casual]

I guess that happens after you've been playing for so long. There's only so many hours you can play a half elf before you want to go for something more out there.

[@doomhippie6673]

@@camiart_casual I guess. Then again I haven't grown tired of playing human fighters after ...umm... 40 years? But again, as long as they enjoy it that's fine by me. I just won't watch it.

[@NocturnalPeacock]

@@camiart_casual Would not generalize that, it´s a matter of taste. For me and most of my group its the opposite as well and we like to have more traditional character archetypes we develop into more interesting characters, instead of starting with really strange characters, that are stranger than the stories they take part in. Both is legit

[@SingingSealRiana]

That's kinda sad, that you struggle with empathy once something is a little different, I feel like fantasy and role play are exactly ment for that, stepping in someone else's shoes

[@plemith]

@@SingingSealRiana mate its a dnd character, its not that deep

[@eradian1]

20 minute video to say, pre-recording not actually bad, the character's aren't as well rooted into the world as C2, the beginning was a slog, and if you didn't watch EXU it's probably even weirder.

[@willowbird]

I feel like the party not having fleshed out backstories and not truly feeling cohesive could be because they are essentially all NPCs like Taliesin said on 4-Sided Dive. Imogen has been at the forefront of the story at the moment but that’s mainly because it ties directly to her character. I feel like if we spent more time in the FeyWild we could’ve gotten more of Fearne’s story but they have a time crunch to worry about so the story has been moving quite fast and brushing over character stories. Once the solstice is over (and if the party survives) we’ll probably get time to slow down and look to other characters. There are mysteries involving Ashton and their past, possibly meeting new aeormatons, who the heck Oltgar is and why so many craftsmen hate him, and if Delilah is truly gone from Laudna’s head. Imogen’s story will definitely take a big break after this arc, and although I feel like this campaign may be shorter, the story isn’t over just yet.

[@Anonymous121212]

Agree. Everything feels so rushed and the characters are too shy to reveal their backstories (Chet and Ash). Maybe it's them not wanting to be like M9 where majority are like main characters, but being a "support/benchwarmer" character doesn't have to mean boring. Sorry Orym and FCG.

[@WildWolfGod]

The thing that hooked me in Campaign 2 was their backstories or the things that influenced them. Sure, not all of them were shown at first but things like Beau's meeting with the Soul and Fjord's Dream were large hooks for me.

[@schmendrick6536]

My Big Complaint (TM) isn't that it seems slow or that it's pre-recorded or whatnot. My Big Complaint (TM) is that campaign 3 feels like it's being made with the intention of becoming an animated series down the road. Like, campaign one was played before a company or even money was on anyone's mind. It was just a thing they were doing as friends. Campaign two was after moderate success, but before anything big was really on the table. And both of those campaigns were super hectic at times. The players would just DO things, they'd go off Matt's intended trail, they'd seek things out. Campaign three happens at the height of things. Campaign one's animated show has started and Mighty Nein is probably being spoken about, if not already somewhat planned. And now in campaign three, even with the slow start and lack of strong motivations, it feels like they're very "Okay, we need to make a show out of this, so let's try to stay on track." And some scenes just feel incredibly forced for the sake of drama. IE, 'a cool scene that could be animated'. The BIGGEST one that frustrated me to hell and back was (SPOILER WARNING) When Laudna tried holding that stone Imogen got and Delilah crushed it and absorbed its powers, and Imogen cried out that Laudna lied to her about not wanting to harm the stone. (SPOILER END) Like... what?? They've known each other for YEARS now, Imogen KNOWS Laudna better than any other player character knows one another at this point, including FCG and Ashton, or Fearne and Liam's little jumping bean whose name I'm brainfarting on right now. That was such forced drama and tension between the characters that didn't make ANY sense. ...Unless it's in a TV show as an emotional "Oh shit" moment. And now, I'm not saying anything is scripted. I'm not one of those guys. But it does feel a lot like some moments get forced by the players to be more than they should because they now have an expectation of where the game could potentially end up and they want 'strong' moments to end up as scenes and so they aren't happening as naturally. They see the opportunity for something cool and they jump at it because a future project could benefit from it, rather than doing it because it makes sense or would be fun in the moment and letting things happen as they come. Although. The natural 20's. Man those natties. I don't think the game is scripted, but at least early game I was almost convinced Matt told them 'Hey, if you just really want to succeed on something just say you got a nat 20, it's cool', but then everyone went overboard on it and Matt had to reel them back in a bit. They happened so damn often. And sometimes back to back to back to BACK. And I get it's totally possible. You can roll a 1 on a d100 five times in a row. It's just improbable, not impossible. But boy howdy that was a lot of nat 20's in the early episodes. And it kind of fed into my idea of "We want to make a show, so if you see a moment you think could benefit the show, grab it", and succeeding on tasks by rolling a nat 20 lands squarely into that.

[@schmendrick6536]

ORAM. His name is Oram. Dammit.

[@TheCatWatches]

Dorian really needs to come back … he felt like the heart of the story from EXU 1, and C3. Even for episodes here and there. We know it’s quite a commitment for Daymond to be a regular as he’s voicing in many shows and video games and producing music. Goes to show what a phenomenal actor and writer Robbie is for delivering perhaps the most memorable guest character

[@JasnoCreed]

campaign 3 is just nto for me, it feels like they took a bunch of joke 1 shot characters and drug em into a real campaign, it all just feels like a joke and a massive departure from c1&2

[@lophostrixcristata6340]

I haven't gotten around to watching the newest episodes yet but recently I've been thinking about why C3 doesn't capture me as much as it did as long as a few other thoughts that have been on my mind about CR: To preface, I got into CR rather late. The first EXU was the first thing I consumed and from there on I explored more of CR. I haven't watched C1 except for clips, I watched C2 until briefly after Evantika and then C3 rolled around and I was hyped to start watching as it went. And I actually enjoyed myself for most of the time and kept up with the weekly story up until after they saved Laudna, I think. The entire journey of getting her back with VM and everything, it was heartfelt and BH fought for it. But ever since they returned from Whitestone, it just lost me a little bit. The first 30 episodes or so, it really felt like the players were enjoying themselves, making shenanigans here and there, solving tasks with a little odd methods just like they would do in C2 but I feel recently, that has been lost a little bit. In general, I feel like nothing much is happening in the episodes and the overall main story is restricting the creativity of the players because of the constant need to act fast because time is ticking. I think that the whole Ruidus plot is so big that it takes away from the characters actually interacting with each other or even just behaving like themselves. I haven't even watched C2 to the middle and I still remember a lot more heartwarming eye-to-eyes than I can in C3. Every character has some great indicated plotlines but they're just not getting any following and yes, of course that could happen later on but it's a bit of a strange pacing to build up to something that could be the finale fo the whole campaing only to later explore some rather "small" points like what the f is up with Ashton's chronic pain and his past in general, right? Since I also started watching D20, I have come to the conclusion that CR episodes are too long, at least for me. I actually cannot sit through a whole episode at once because I just lose focus at some point. The entire pacing of CR is rather slow but in C3 recently it feels like most of the time is not spent with doing something but rather thinking about doing something or theorizing, and not even in amusing way, at least to me. In general, I have to say that while CR deserves every inch of success they have and LOVM is an amazing show and the new studio is absolutely stunning, I do miss a little bit of the "randomness" about it. What made Sam's adds in C2 so amazing was how unhinged they were and how only he knew what he would do while the others learned as they went (maybe that wasnt the case back then either but it definitely felt like it). Now, it seems that even some of the reactions of the others that are supposed to feel natural are scripted sometimes. I know, that's a very specific complaint but maybe someone feels the same about this. C2 adds were great because of Sam doing unhinged and crazy stuff, sometimes without preparation and everyone losing their mind because they were seeing it for the first time too. And last but not least: CR misses a format like Talks Machina. 4-sided dive might be fun but nothing ever gets really deep because so many different segments need to be cramped in. I absolutely adored the cast even more once I started to watch the corresponding episode of Talks Machina after an episode of C2. It had such a comfortable setting and it was so interesting to hear everyone talking about their characters at length without someone eventually interrupting and saying "we have to keep going, quick".

[@Rocker1983]

I miss Talks Machina as well.

[@amadhatter3280]

I think another issue why the C3 feels a little slower is the villians in C3 are more of the "hide in the shadows types" so we've mainly dealing with a indirect/unknown threat rather then a big scary monster the party just encounters randomly, without a direct threat its hard to keep everyone focused. The Briarwoods Arc is the perfect example of a direct threat to the party. The party knew where they were so they just needed to go their to stop them. Compare that to Dugger the party had to investigate because Dugger was hiding & wasn't going to reveal himself. In any Crime drama the investigation is the low point with a big pay-off in the end & that's what we've seen in C3, slow build-up all leading up to the big pay-off. FYI hidden enemies in the shadows isn't a bad thing & Matt is playing it well, but sometimes it leads to being players lost on what to do next. Another point is the players are smarter after 8 yrs of playing. The party in C3 (and towards the end of C2) have found more ways to resolve problems instead of fighting (take the Bull from ep53 and how they got around that encounter), this has lead to less need for combat, less combat means less direct threat to the party. Without that direct threat to the party its harder for viewers to be invested in a faceless foe then a giant monster about to eat you. Also most of the party have unique abilities that help them evade danger e.g. 3 sending users, 2 healers, Chetney's nose, Orym's Observant feat, Aston's Pass without a Trace etc... Point is they have a lot of ways to avoid danger at such a low level & they known how to use them well. I've enjoyed C3 so far its a slower burn then the other 2 campaigns, but thats not always a bad thing.

[@somestuff7876]

Why faceless through? He has a name. Interesting, I simultaneously watch campaign 2 (currently on ep.54) and I feel like campaign 3 moves way faster plotwise. It feels like Mighty Nein only now got into the Plot. And I personally enjoyed Bells Hells way more prior to ticking time bomb plot rolled in... and past applebee's soulstice I'm having a blast with the group... groups. Reminds me of the early shenanigans with the Ball and museum heist. p.s. It would be freaking hilarious if by the end of those arcs there would be ~12 people at the table.

[@ronaldbaker8533]

C3 felt like the later seasons of Fringe. World ending stakes but none of the soul that made it endearing

[@nfortin24]

I don't want to say scripted... but the campaigns seem to have gotten less organic.. Everyone is hyper focused on telling a narrative.. I fell in love with C1 because it genuinely felt like a bunch of friends playing DND.. I get the reasons why its more structured now.. but that doesn't change that it's lost something..

[@IrishClone]

This is probably the biggest reason why I'm not liking C3. It feels like each player (other than Liam) consciously or subconsciously thought, "I can't have a generic character, I have to be ✨unique✨" and then followed that up with overacting every single thing they do. When it boils down to it, Imogen and Orym are the only characters who feel like they could be real people in this world. Everyone else is playing fun guest characters or interesting NPCs. The best way I can describe the overacting is with low budget films. One film is good because the story was fairly solid and the actors didn't take themselves too seriously and just had fun (ie: Spaceballs). The second film is meh because the story is fine and the characters are treating it like they'll be in the running for an Oscar if they do well (ie: The Room). Campaigns 1 and 2 are the former. Campaign 3 is the latter. Add on top of it all that this campaign feels like it was set up with an old school mentality (DM has their own campaign planned, players bring their own PCs and backstories without working with the DM) and you have a recipe for a lukewarm story

[@nfortin24]

@@IrishClone Whole heartedly agree, except for the last part. I feel like its partly the opposite. Almost like half of the characters were created at Matts behest.. This is the big wrap up of the world from what it seems like. Yet 4/7 player characters are perfect for a narrative that Matt has had in his head for years.. Got Chet who's old AF and has seen basically everything thats happened, FCG an aeormaton that ties into the calamity and c2 events, Laudna's direct ties to Delilah, Imogen is the plot's obvious main character -- honestly don't see how the campaign works without her.. Orym, Fearne, and Ashton are the only outliers.. Orym is the only "sane" character in the cast.. he serves as a way to ground the party and a plot device to get KeyKey and the others involved. Fearne is comic relief and Ash is kinda just.. forgotten most of the time..

[@IrishClone]

@@nfortin24 I see where you're coming from there. With my last paragraph, I meant the backstories just seem to not really apply. Like, the basic skin of the characters fit pretty well, but Fearne, Ashton, and Chetney have no reason to care about the plot right now, Laudna and FCG have paper thin reasons to care, and Imogen and Orym have good reasons to care. Like, everybody except Orym and Imogen are ride along characters. They don't have a reason why they're travelling, they just are because they're running away from something or following Orym. Like yeah, some have backstories that fit to things in the past, but other than Orym, those have had no bearing on the main story outside of a couple side quests and cheap references. I agree that Imogen has MASSIVE protagonist energy and it's been prevalent the whole campaign. I just kind of wish there was more of that with everybody else

[@Ailieorz]

@@IrishClone Imogen is the biggest Mary Sue at the table

[@kennym11]

As someone who has followed weekly from mid CR1 i do find myself not keeping up or feeling the chore of catching up. My issue with Campaign 3 is where is the fun? The characters seem barely fleshed out and fairly stale, we aren't getting the humour of C1 while missing out on the fantastic character development of C2. We had nearly a 5hr episode on planning recently. Once Dorian left the humour and fun factor seemed to go as well, Travis's characters are always fun but he's lost his buddy to bounce off of. I've not watched all the EXU mini series as i am already finding i have to slog through the main campaign

[@WexMajor82]

Yeah, stopped around 5th episode. It was unwatchable.

[@RedsMyFavoriteColor]

It hasn't become much more watchable.

[@LostWhits]

Do they seem to really drag out their "planning" stages of the game? Especially when they don't know what their characters want to do. They had "a week" to think about it.

[@threestars42]

I think my main issue is that i really hate that they all didn't make new characters for c3. I love Aabria, and I love her other stuff, but i absolutely loathed exu, so to see the same characters again was an extreme disappointment. This is gonna sound dumb, but I almost feel "tricked", and like i have to watch exu now, because it's not really optional. This also made it very weird to watch the start of c3, like, "okay I know this group of characters, so why should I care about the rest?". I've seen some comment talking about whether c3 is more plot-driven or character-driven, and I honestly feel neither. C3 feels like a bunch of people who doesn't wanna make any real decisions, and instead forcing their DM to force them to do shit. It feels like there's been so many times thta Matt has pushed and pushed for them all to just take a baby step. Idk, I like the characters by themselves, and I love the story, but it just doesn't work together imo.

[@MightyGachiman]

This campaign gas all the issues of campaign 2 but magnified. Making it prerecorded/scripted didn't help at all with the pacing nor the quality of writing has gotten any better. It seems like they are just on autopilot while pushing their merch before it kicks the bucket.

[@8BitLife69]

Third Campaign has ALWAYS been a piece of junk. The characters suck. They are just social justice cartoon characters. Can't relate to them, or care about em. Got about 5 episodes in, and quit. 1 and 2 are amazing. 3 is hot garbage.

[@Gliiitchy]

I stopped watching with campaign 3 because it started feeling less and less like a group of friends playing D&D, and more like people acting for a show. I know they’re not, but it’s how it started to feel for me. I like the actual group playing feel, and it just lost that for me.

[@stevend3326]

When Robbie left is kind of when I started losing a bit of interest. Just wasn't as pressing to watch the episode that week, and when I eventually got several weeks behind I was like "well, dang" watch it when I can.

[@Dannydarko27]

Im about 10 episodes behind but still enjoy the game. My biggest gripes were with the reusing of characters, instead of starting new, the fact that one of "new" characters can just call upon OP characters from past seasons, and the Marisha-less times. She could've just played a temp character or a new one completely. If a player refuses to play with the group once their pc has died, then that sounds like a problem player to me. Definitely seems like a horror story on reddit. "Dm's Wife refused to play after her pc died" That being said I still love watching the campaign and all of the players do their thing, even with my problems

[@TimpanistMoth_AyKayEll]

CR has been entirely consistent about not having players at the table whenever their current character is dead in past campaigns. Nothing to do with Marisha's preferences.

[@Deadponygaming]

I'm guilty of comparing experiences but as a veteran to DnD I realized early on that not every campaign is going to catch my interest. I didn't watch most of Campaign 2 but I personally love C3. It's just how DnD is and people will learn that or leave.

[@wafflingmean4477]

(Before reading please know I'm aware Matt Mercer is a better DM than I could ever be and generally I love his work, just not really this time) My main issue with Campaign 3 is that from Episode 1 the party had basically been dragged along a very pre-written story that has nothing to do with almost any of them. It feels like it should've just been a novel with Imogen as the main character (because she is the main character). They hadn't really had the option to do ANYTHING other than this story for 50 episodes, which means we're exploring the characters WAY less than previous campaigns. And then, when it finally seems like we're going to get a huge payoff on that story, perhaps making a lot of the grind to get to this point worth it, Matt just teleports everyone to the other side of the planet and they run around doing Chetney's backstory as if the world wasn't ending like 3 seconds earlier. It's as if the characters don't care the world is ending. And the reality is they don't. Because the players know the DM won't end the world without the party reunited. Additionally, Campaign 3 did feel more railroaded than either campaign before, but it crossed a line on the actual day of the Apogee Solstice. The fact is Travis outsmarted the DM and would have derailed the pre-written story so Matt just blocked him, showing character choice and player ingenuity doesn't matter in Campaign 3. Travis' backup plan was to crash the airship into Ludinous' machine if they couldn't destroy it on the ground. Sure, everyone rolled terribly for the rest of the plan, but the backup plan was still intact but the DM just said no. So ultimately nothing matters. Player choice just gets blocked or railroaded and the huge story beat the whole campaign was building to got dismissed as soon as it happened. If we compare this to Campaign 2, the first large portion of the campaign was driven by the characters and their backstories. It was only when Nott/Veth discovered her husband had been abducted by Kryn Dynasty that the M9 really got pulled into the main plot, and even then it was deeply rooted in a character motivation. The M9 wasn't joining a war they were just saving a friend, but everything spiralled from there. And back to Campaign 3, the Bells Hells have been dragged into a story they are under-levelled for. Ludinous is an endgame villain and they're going up against him at what, level 9? So Matt is forced to wait. So why bring in this story so early? In my opinion it's because of the animated show and Daggerheart, their competitor to D&D still in development. Matt needs to wipe out his pantheon of gods so their animated shows and their Daggerheart books can't get sued for copyright when Wizards of the Coast inevitably tries to destroy the competition by any means necessary. Although I do wonder why he didn't just do this Ludinous story at the end of Campaign 2. The M9 had a way stronger connection to Ludinous and were already dealing with the assembly and they'd be at a high enough level to actually tackle the threat.

[@heliosfromacrossastar878]

I agree so much with what you say and it is weird how this video glosses over all of that. I started CR with C3 and loved the first episodes, but around episode 20 they got on the track of Ruidis and ever since they have been droning on. I wanted to explore the Feywild, understand Ashton's background, connect with Orym's grief, explore Laudna's identity, see Chetney's past catch up with them. But there is no room for that. Everything connects back to Ruidis and Imogen. Imogen feels oddly main character (am watching C2 and no it doesn't feel the same with Caleb) for a TTRPG. For me the straw was when they destroyed the key in the Feywild and it didn't matter at all. 'Canon' events, that have to happen, can work but not if the main objective of this party for the past 50 episodes had been to stop it from happening.

[@caoilfhionn946]

I think the average CR fan follows a similar cycle. 1. The binge watch 2. Watching live weekly 3. The trickle off 4. The fall off. For many Campaign 2 fans (especially those who found it during the pandemic), they are only now hitting their first tickle off and fall off. We all get there eventually. Where something about the current arch or campaign no longer makes us excited to watch so we stop. For most of us this is a temporary stop because CR as a whole is so good we miss it and have to come back. Plus I find it is a lot easier to watch episodes your not 100% into when you know the next episode that might be better is already available. Edit: Even I fell off of C3 at about episode 15 but decided I missed the show and binged it again a few weeks ago. Now for the last 2 weeks I have been telling all my friends who had also fallen off the show that they have to get caught back up again because this is what everything has been building toward.

[@michaeltrevino8234]

I agree with this take and find it relatable. I found CR back when C1 was just about to end. Because I was a high schooler who did nothing after class most of the time I just binged the whole campaign and caught up pretty quick and anticipated watching the live premiere of C2. Watching an episode live for once was an amazing experience for me and I was so excited for this new campaign and new characters, and then I remember watching until around 20 or 21 thinking "I need a break from this probably. I'm just not engaged like I used to be." So I took a VERY long break from C2 and CR in general to focus on other stuff up until I heard it had ended and even then I didn't start watching again immediately. When I did come back I had actually avoided most spoilers, besides 2 big spoilers that are hard to avoid in the fandom, so binging it was so much more fun and engaging because I missed it while I was away. I had actually finished the C2 finale a few days before the live premiere of C3 by staying up all night and finishing all 7 hours only a hour before I had to go into work the next day lol I watched the C3 premiere and once again the cycle started again after the first 15 episodes where I needed a break for a little bit. The break wasn't as long as the first and it was really only from the main campaign as I still watched EXU and past one shots before coming and catching back up a few weeks ago. People need a break every now and then, even the cast, so those extra weeks off at the end of every month is probably attributing to the sluggish pace people are feeling but I think they're beneficial in the long run.

[@caoilfhionn946]

@@michaeltrevino8234 I found them initially probably about a year before you did and my cycle of the show has been pretty similar to yours

[@michaeltrevino8234]

@@caoilfhionn946 I definitely understand some people's problems with C3 as I share some of them as well, and while stepping away won't solve them all obviously, I think a break away would do good for some people. Stepping away from CR is how I found the time to watch shows and movies I grew to regard as my favorites like Daredevil and Breaking Bad and it's actually how I found my favorite hobby and game.

[@Jackie_Tikki_Tavi]

So far it felt like 50 episodes of Imogen and that's just disproportioned. Orym is a rather shallow character even if Liam wanted to take a more backseat role this time around. His entire backstory is swallowed by Imogen's. Even Laudna has a hard time existing without her, though I think it was mostly an accident. FCG though just doesn't feel like a real person most of the time. Sam took a chance, as he's wont to do, and it's just harder to manage this time. Fearn is a chaos ball but she also has no identity with her class which I think is what holds her back the most. Ashton and Chet are just waiting on the bench. The thing is players did try to push in many different direction but oftentime were met with a dead end from the DM. My theory? Matt has been collaborating with other creatives for the worldbuilding and is too sensitive to let that work "go to waste." In other words, he's been too precious to showcase someone else's work than to let the campaign run a more free flowing narrative which in turn made some characters just passengers.

[@Daniel-lf3vj]

I am surprised that they havent gotten burnt out yet and appreciate their dedication to fans honestly you can feel the joy in campaign one. I dont want them to continue if its not all fun and just another job either

[@GunnarClovis]

You contradict yourself a lot here---C3 is for the die-hard OG CR fans, but also the die-hard OG CR fans don't like it? The campaign falls apart after Dorian leaves, but also the first 20 or 30 episodes are a boring slog? You have a lot of conflicting and contradictory ideas and takes here, and it still feels like you don't know what you think or what you're saying, yet it's all really rooted in your own experience and Reddit threads. As a new CR fan who came in with ExU and C3---I love it. I've loved all of C3, but I honestly liked the first 20 or 30 episodes *the most* Every *new* fan to CR with C3 and the Vox Machina show really seems to like it, and we're not the die-hard OG genwunner CR mega-fans you describe C3 as being for (but also that they don't like it?) We like it for *different* reasons, yeah? You allude to this but the overall message of this still feels muddled

[@JeremyHamaker]

I really really miss Robbie. He was the standout to me in EXU in how deeply he dove in and committed, as a first time player no less. I try to be patient with CR. I remember the beginning of C2 seemed slow to me as well. Heck, slogging thru the first part of the streamed C1 was slow and clunky. They were finding their footing, the audio was rough, and then there's that one...presence... that had to get scooted away from the table before all cylinders fired. I had great hopes for what C3 would bring but of course the cast and the game choices and the lore are so varied, there was no telling what was really going to be presented. I still don't know if I'm pleased or disappointed... which is an odd headspace to still hold after 50 episodes/200ish hours. I agree that the interruptions and the pacing have made things kind of... frustrating as a viewer. But yes, things change and I try to take that in stride. As far as C3 now, if the current plot is such a culmination of years and years of buildup... what will they have to take on after this 'chapter' is resolved? That question is in my head (as in a lot of other people's) and I could see the campaign just ending after this arc. There's no rule that says you have to play a character team until they get super high level... I'm okay either way if it ends or continues. I'm interested to see what team/story comes in Campaign 4 because beginnings are always full of new hope. (if there is another campaign... All things end; Lives, stories, ages, even Actual Play streams.) Thanks for your insights, buddy!

[@Anonymous121212]

Perhaps this isn't the opinion you wanted expressed but if it is, I also feel excited for C4 already, yet I also wonder if there is one. I know CR is still doing well, but me even considering those thoughts is a testament to the quality of C3, whatever that might be.

[@miari_literatures]

CR C2 would have brought way more guests to the play at the second half if it wasn’t for covid i sure it would

[@JeremyHamaker]

Well, I watched E51 and looks like my predictions either direction were wayyyyy too mundane for the reality. OMG, Matthew Mercer!! 😲

[@xStarborn]

Laudna dying and coming back to life like 6 times kind of broke it for me... The threat of death became weightless. Theyre just baby gods doing whatever they want with no consequences in c3

[@brandonrust4114]

@@xStarborn I agree that there should feel like there are high stakes, the threat of death and the act of death should feel heavy. Perhaps the most powerful moments and arcs across C1 and C2 have come as a result of PC death. It does seem sometimes like Laudna’s abilities and her connection to Delilah are a convenient excuse to not die. But it makes a ton of narrative sense for someone who’s warlock patron is perhaps literally the most powerful necromancer that’s yet to be established in this canon. Plus she’s only truly died and been resurrected once so far, and I thought that arc felt plenty heavy with the group fighting Delilah and seeing ghosts of Laudna’s memories. Matt made them literally fight for her. Laudna’s story and background was able to get some real attention even if they weren’t able to bring her back then. I’m sure Matt has constant and ever evolving conversations with his players about how far they want to take these characters and what they want to resolve. Maybe it was determined privately that it would ruin someone’s enjoyment to lose a character at that stage. I understand the point you were trying to make though, but I felt you did so in a way that was greatly exaggerated and being disingenuous to the material that’s actually played out so far.

[@MrsRen]

I find it hard to get past the Fearne voice. It grated on my ears in the mini series to the point I couldn't keep listening...

[@zoltanszaszi2264]

Honestly, this might sound strange, but this entire Ludinus storyline feels much more suited for the Mighty Nein than Bell's Hells. I think they ended c2 because they were kind of emotionally exhausted, which I understand, and I still kind of get that feeling from how much more the players are personally interested in catching up with c1 characters than c2 ones. But as much as the M9 were unsung heroes, and as much as they started out as a statedly morally grey group of de facto mercenaries, they grew to be quite effective problem solvers and heroes. Plus, as their final fight showed, they were kind of especially geared towards dealing with magical threats. A few hints in c2 lead me to believe that this entire storyline was at least partially set up by the time they were hunting the Angel of Irons cult and Matt basically expanded it to be the central plotline of c3.

[@skynotaname2229]

For me i just cant really get into the characters of most of the cast. I either find them unlikable or too unrelatable. I stopped watching when Laudnas death prompted a whole quest to resurrect her even though at that point in-game, the other characters barely knew her.

[@jaredeschweiler3505]

I don't think this is the end of C3, this is their Chroma Conclave moment. What happens after tonight or the next few episodes will change the direction of the campaign. I don't believe the Ruidus story ends here, but I do think this is where we will see a pause in C3. Matt is taking on a Dimension 20 campaign, which he likely has been recording for some time now, I think after the Apogee Solstice arc, there will be a break in C3 and we will get another EXU campaign. I'm basing this on the pattern we've seen with the previous 3 EXU campaigns. It makes narrative sense to take a party into an epic event and bringing it to a culmination and then transition to what is happening elsewhere in Exandria. Two major plot threads are active in Exandria besides the one Bell's Hells is facing. The Apogee Solstice provides a unique opportunity for a Forgotten Death God who was "destroyed" and usurped by a mortal to be reborn. A group called "The Nameless Ones" are gathering followers for what? To me it feels like the kind of event that would come to a head on an occasion like this. We also have a naive character (Opal) with a powerful artifact of an evil God who wants to be free. Also this Artifact is actively being hunted by The Caedogeist. The Spider Queen may be making a play to escape during the solstice which would affect C3 heavily.

[@DarksideGmss0513]

I agree. I think the next EXU campaign will either be the aftermath of the solstice or it will be on the solstice but it will be what happens to the crown keepers.

[@Lachesi]

Wow is Matt gonna be on a Dimension 20 campaign as a player?

[@joncarpenter-smith9801]

He’s DMing it

[@MsMorri]

I agree. I thought this was C3's Chroma Conclave moment. I'm not sure what's going to happen with the group since they've been split. I might be in the majority, but I'm excited to see where they go.

[@jaredeschweiler3505]

@@MsMorri I'm excited to see where this goes. They all just got cast to the four winds. I'm really shocked no other gods, betrayer or otherwise sent a champion to stop this.

[@ChristianDarkwood]

Elephant in the room? No more Brian Foster... his absence makes all the difference in this new era of Critical Role.

[@tiamatspawn4597]

Campaign 3 is like the Kingdom Hearts 3 of Critical Role. There’s so many name drops and background information that you need to know to TRULEY understand the bigger picture. On another point. I have honestly have no desire watch CR live or campaign 3 if they keep making animated series that just compile the best parts of a 200+ hour campaigns into 10 concise episodes.

[@bloodwolfgaming9269]

Honestly, I think that's one of the biggest turn-offs about Campaign 3 for me. It's the pacing. You get a few episodes of some high action/emotional moments and then it suddenly switches to follow characters I know absolutely nothing about following a completely different plot/story that I know absolutely nothing about because I don't follow their other media projects like the Exandria Unlimited stuff. Even now...I was pretty much caught up with the main story and there is a big important lore drop. But rather than having the lore be given/told to the players and audience...the game shifts to now have the lore actually be played out by an assortment of new/old cast members across a couple of episodes (in reference to the lore/backstory of Aeor and all the Gods/Calamity stuff). On the one hand, I get wanting to find new ways to introduce more lore or different aspects of that Campaign's universe to the fans. But damn can it be jarring to go from "Oh, here's are motley crew fighting through a dungeon trying to discover something and stop the BBEG's plans" to "Oh, here is a segment on how the Gods came to be, a segment on the history of a location, and a segment on what is probably one of the biggest historical moments in-universe......all of which will be fully played out over the next few episodes with different characters either you don't know or know little about (unless you are an absolute lore buff)"

[@tylerbarnick8750]

Sadly, this particular campaign just can't get me invested anymore. I feel like when three of characters got killed off that was the moment where things could have REEEEEALLY shifted up another notch...but alas those three came back to life, and it kind of went back to same hemming and hawing and scattered brain party antics that this campaign is infamous for. I'm honestly hoping it isn't over 140 episodes again.

[@azzydraws3107]

Personally, you hit on a lot of what I'm feeling towards the campaign. I dont watch live anymore, I have no drive to watch it. It feels like, so far, the story is just this group of characters getting dragged from one place to the next because the plot wants to keep moving but the characters want to stay still. We still haven't gotten any good moments where the characters really get to know each other, or create a dynamic that works for combat. (Plus, as I've seen others mention, there really hasn't been much combat other than rolling a dice to see if you have to fight monsters today.) It would have been really nice if we could have gotten some sort of gradual build-up into the plot, instead of jumping from plot point to plot point and then OOPS suddenly everything is connected and the world is about to end and we have to deal with it right now. There hasn't been room for the characters to grow and learn how to work with each other. I'm trying to get into the campaign, *really* trying, but it's just not something that I want to set aside my time for anymore.

[@Anonymous121212]

YES! The characters feel so passive, just flowing with the wind, affecting nothing and not really being affected . In C2 we had that fun heist with Nott and Jester, Fjord and Caleb's passive-aggression, Beau and Yasha's sexual tension, and Molly just dropping lore bombs, all in the first 25 eps was it? Here the closest thing we have to this is the Witches be Bitches thing which only happened twice and not because of story reasons.

[@azzydraws3107]

@Anonymous121212 exactly!! Like, really early on in the campaign we got the Beacon- a vital piece of the plot that lead them to Xhorhas and their relationship with Essek! They prioritized making sure every character had their backstories addressed (obviously it was hard to do for yasha) and their characters were driven to do the right thing by virtue of their growth through the story, not just "oh the world is ending, I guess we should stop that"

[@electricrevenue8131]

I just want them to play dnd like a group of friends. Don't really care about the production as it has become.

[@sirgideonofnir6840]

I don't have any input, really. I watched episode 1 of S3 and had 0 interest. I loved S1 and S2. S3 seemed so zaney and high fantasy. I know S1 and 2 weren't grounded, but I felt like I could connect with them more. Now there's a undead puppet, a actual fay, multi colored whatever he was. And a robot.

[@KakavashaForever]

I said this in another of your videos just now but I'll say it again here: Its just boring. Also "Bells Hells" is the dumbest possible name they could have gone with. They knew Bertrand for like 3 days before he died, but they act like he was their childhood friend and they're traumatized by his death. It was bad enough when they did that with Molly last season after knowing the guy a month, but this is even worse. Realistically we know they rushed this lame name to get the merch train rolling, but man I wish they had gone with pretty much anything else, its just so lame every time the name gets mentioned. Viewership is down to around 12k now, and its no wonder when it seems like they're just phoning it in. The prerecorded format, and less episodes per month just add to this. People loved the show when it was live, since going prerecorded its not the same, and I think the players feel that as well. Either that or they're just more interested/invested in the cartoon than the actual game these days. Maybe they should take a year off from the game and see if they get the passion back? BTW the cartoon is great and I hope it runs forever lol.

[@Cookie_Empress]

Just because something is done intentionally, it doesn't mean it's good. My biggest Problem ist, especially after Episode 52, that it feels like cheap fanservice instead of great character moments. This is also the reason why i absolutly hate the last arc of the M9. Lucien, in my eyes, was a terrible and boring villain that only had an impact beacuse of the person that once lived inside of him. It also doesn't help that some things are getting somewhat repetitive after all these years. Sam plays a small, annoying character with a dark past, Talesin (As much as i love him) plays a character so special that Matt has to invent some new classes or subclasses and Liam has his deep and dark character. Travis carried the M9 with his, not Fjords, character development so hard it was a blast to see him play. I'm a way bigger fan of small, personal arcs and problems like Nott to Veth, Yashas Wife or Calebs past with the Assembly. That said i still love CR and i still can enjoy campaign 3 but i hope after Matt has ticked off all his checkmarks we can enjoys something smaller and more personal again.