The Fatal Flaw in Abrahamic Religions that Dharmic Traditions Don't Have

The average KZbin viewer watches only one-third of a given video. Which is sad because they often don't get to the main argument. So I'll briefly state it here: Abrahamic religions, esp. Christianity, are historically contingent -- meaning the theology hinges on some historical fact being true, or it all falls apart. For example, traditional Christian theology depends on a) Jesus having really lived as a historical being, and b) Jesus having been resurrected by God. (the Bible even says: "if Christ be not resurrected, your faith is in vain.") Dharmic traditions, however, do not depend on any particular historical fact, such as Krishna or even the Buddha having really lived as a historical person. This is because the Dharma traditions are based on specific teachings, not on a theology about specific historical personages. Christianity, by contrast, became a religion about who Jesus allegedly *was*, not so much about what he taught.
This explains, in part, the widespread hypocrisy observed among Christians who do not follow Jesus' teachings (they don't have to, because they are 'saved' solely by believing he was the son of God and died for their sins). Of course followers of Dharma traditions can be as hypocritical as anyone else, but their hypocrisy is not directly enabled by their religion's theology in the same way.
PLEASE NOTE: some commentators think they can write a refutation of my argument having only read these words, without seeing the video. Such attempted refutations will be deleted. Do me the courtesy of watching the video before you try to refute, please.
~~~~~~~
Study Online
Explore over 1000 hours of Classical Tantra teachings on Tantra Illuminated Online, including guided meditations, retreats, Sanskrit and mantra recitation practices, and asana classes ► www.tantrailluminated.org/sub...
~~~~~~~
Practise & Learn in Community
Deepen your practice by joining Christopher at workshops and retreats, available both in-person and online ► www.tantrailluminated.org/cal...
~~~~~~~
Read Christopher’s Books
Discover the newly released 'Near Enemies of the Truth' ► amzn.to/4aeoj4L
Alongside the foundational 'Tantra Illuminated' ► amzn.to/3TDawzg
And 'The Recognition Sutras' ► amzn.to/43ipfmw
~~~~~~~
Stay Connected
Sign up for our newsletter to be the first to hear about upcoming events, pilgrimages, and newly released courses ► www.tantrailluminated.org/soc...
~~~~~~~
Explore the Blog
Over 150 free articles offering comprehensive translations and insightful explanations of Tantrik scriptures and teachings ► hareesh.org/blogpage
Engage with a global community passionate about non-duality, the nature of reality, and liberation at ► www.tantrailluminated.org/
#yoga #nonduality #awakening #natureofreality #sanskrit #consciousness #awareness #meditation #guidedmeditation #tantra #tantrasadhana #classicaltantra #liberation

[@sharmilakalain7549]

We have hundreds of deities and thousands of scriptures and there is a tacit understanding amongst Hindus, irrespective of which part of the world we live, that every human, in fact creature, is on a journey towards Brahman. Thus we are so magnanimous and the intolerance of the Abrahamic is inexplicable. Devout Hindu from Africa. Great video.

[@siddarth2599]

Jai Jagannath ❤

[@mayankindian3750]

❤🕉️🙂❤️😊🥰

[@NoahiShere2667]

Only after watching this video that I realized that the Dharma initiative in the tv show -lost- was taken as a name from the dharmic traditions, and seeing what these are about, it makes it even more genius considering the goal of the organization in the show

[@adarshraghuram6858]

It's a monotheistic blindspot. It's just being accustomed to the rigid binaries/ dualities provided by monotheism and being sincerely unable to comprehend open architecture of Sanatana Dharma. The fundamental issue is wanting to proselytize and not allowing others to exist who dont want/need the good news. Difference anxiety. Salvation is a non concept for us. We are born divine and it's our duty in human form to realize it. Very different consequences from this metaphysics. Nice video!

[@mayankindian3750]

True 😊❤🥰❤️🕉️🙏🤗

[@mayankindian3750]

That's why there is prosetalization and wars after wars after war 🥲

[@lisalove6660]

So appreciate your scholarship and clarity, as well as how beautifully you share the depth of your knowledge and insight! ✨👏💕

[@christopherwallis751]

[@michellemanni7042]

Very interesting talk! I can tell you are digging deep. Keep it up!

[@jenniferflower9265]

This is only problematic if you take these scriptures literally. Which is taught that way recently and especially in the west. It's symbolic. The literal teaching of this really did a number on people's minds, behavior, and actions. Love your teachings. I just found your channel and am just starting to learn these things, starting with yoga.

[@indianmilitary]

"Symbolic representations" - but they are still based on the core monotheistic assumptions of ABRAHAMIC religions like god, heaven and hell which cannot be validated by logic or experiment or embodied experience. But Hindu/Vedic metaphysics Sankhya (around which the whole Hindu tradition was built including its temple, yoga and tantra traditions) can be validated by logic, double slit quantum experiment and embodied experience.

[@jenniferflower9265]

@kashsoldier I'm a yoga teacher and have been exposed to a lot of its teachings. As well as the Catholic teachings. I see a lot of cross-over. I understand what you mean. In Hinduism, logic is a lot easier to see. You don't see it as easily in Christian teachings, but they are there. I really wonder if that is because of the litteralism that crept in Western teachings. Even when you dive into the symbolic teachings, there seem to be mind blocks in seeing the entire picture. There's still this separation piece that seems to disrupt it fully.

[@marilaucher9989]

"Sometimes the bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whiskey bottle in the hand of another .There are just some kind of men who are so busy worrying about the next world they've never learned to live in this one and you can look down the street and see the results ." ....Harper Lee ,To Kill a Mockingbird

[@rog5asus416]

When you are trying to impart wisdom to the masses through word of mouth or written literature, especially a couple thousand years ago where vocabulary in many western languages was not very developed, it feels a lot like an excuse when one says that the problem is with people choosing to take the literal meanings of the message.

[@Jagombe1]

I was also a Christian, but saw the symbolism that Christianity does not want to explain and left it. But what is Christianity today is NOT what Jesus taught. Unfortunately, your video has gone ahead to worsen the problem by being literal in your understanding!

[@GraysonBolt]

Thank you for summarizing the video. I will boost your channels in other ways.

[@annechristinehagedorn7177]

Thanks for this clarity

[@juanpablomejia709]

Hola Hareesh, i just wanted to express that as you already know , i apreciate so much your teachings in tantra and your deep intention to truly live and embody the path, from that recognition , i just wanted to comment on how hard is to do comparative religious studies, i have studied and practiced ,what i call the jewchristian messianic tradition for years, the same with the tantrik nondual shaivism and i can point out more obvious flaws in the theology of the fundamentalist, dogmatic orthodox ,churches but at the same time amazing similarities and the deepness and rich of their mystical traditions some of them lost but still alive in the heart of a few individuals, i was very happy that at the end of your video you made a differentiation between the so called religious movements and the mystic , personal self realization paths within the same traditions (kabbalah,sufism) im very well versed in both if you ever want to chat more in-depth about the subject including their apocalyptic literature, Saludos.

[@indianmilitary]

There is absolutely no similarity in Hindu/Vedic metaphysics and monotheism other than superficial similarities due to selective digestion of so called "pagan" tradition (outside India) by Abrahamic religions eg Christmas tree, Church bell, Kaaba stone in ISLAM and Hindu Anahatha chakra or heart chakra symbol (on Jewish Isreali flag) called 'star of david".

[@kirinkopalan8842]

Thank you for your insight

[@VoxUrania]

[@indianmilitary]

"Gnostic belief" Direct Knowledge based on experience cannot be called a "belief"

[@stephaniec.3001]

Thanks for this insightful talk and for your courage regarding this potentially volatile topic. I grew up in an area of the U.S. called the "Bible Belt." I remember sitting in Sunday school, around the age of 8 or 9, and I had an insight that has stayed with me all my life. I just knew that what I was being taught was not correct, that it was not the truth. I lived and worked in this "Bible Belt" until I retired and moved to a different state. While working, I often had to deal with people known as "Bible thumpers." It was challenging because they could be unkind, even what I would call mean, because they were so sure they were right and even special. I was in a job with a lot of responsibility, so I had to deal with high level bosses. Not all were "Bible thumpers" but many were. But I also knew some people, though in a minority, who practiced Christianity from a spiritual perspective and they were kind, loving people.

[@Christoth2012]

Thanks. Very interesting!!!

[@lindaveijola7012]

I think it is great that you gave this talk on religions, and broke down their flaws. Maybe it will wake some people with your truthful and cited issues that make the theology so ridiculous.

[@Synodalian]

This is a late question, but would you recommend any particular books for further reading on this very sharp distinction between the logic behind Abrahamic and Dharmic faiths?

[@phoenixj1299]

Read the complete works of Vivekananda

[@Zoroaster92]

Namaste Hareesh/Christopher. Is it appropriate to ask you some specific questions on tantra/dharma here in the comments?

[@christopherwallis751]

sure

[@mattpiper5278]

The difference between the path of dogma, and the path of direct knowledge.

[@SkyCloudSilence]

Or just the paths of a million dogmas.

[@indianmilitary]

@@SkyCloudSilence "million dogmas" - only 3 main dogmas based on the same monotheistic core and its assumptions like god, heaven and hell which cannot be validated by logic, experiment or embodied experience. 🤣🤣

[@xenocrates2559]

Thanks for posting your thoughts on this difficult topic. I am not a Christian, but I am skeptical of your claims about that tradition. For example, you state that every Christian has to believe the whole Bible; but different Christian traditions contain different books in their versions of the Bible (compare Protestant Bible, Catholic Bibles, Orthodox Bibles, Ethiopian Orthodox Bibles, etc.) Catholic Bibles contain books they count as scripture and authoritative that Protestant Bibles do not and this does have impact on faith and practice. And different Christian (and Jewish) traditions have different standards and procedures of interpretation. // On the other hand, your discussion of historical contingency and how it difference in Abrahamic and Dharmic traditions was very illuminating for me. Thanks again.

[@phoenixj1299]

No matter what, every sect of Christian religion is bound within the contents of Bible and not beyond it. Thats problematic.

[@kingmarx810]

I just watched your video and found it very thoughtful and while it did waid into some potentially sensitive topics you were kind in your approach. I was raised a Christian but, I am now an atheist. I don't subscribe to any metaphysical explanation for reality. If I latch onto any explanation for existence, I like Carl Sagan's words in which we are a way for the Universe to know itself. The contrdictions of the Bible are probably the main reason for my conversion. That and the god of the Abrahamic religions was really a god of war, terrifying and not deserving of worship. That is why violence is a "just" path for many of the 3 major Abrahmic religions. While, I know very little about Hinduism and Buidhism, I understand that one can practice the teachings within the religion even as an atheist. To find peace within one's self and the environment that we live. There is good in that. It is all up to interpretation for us to find our own path with our time alive. That was all I had to say, thank you for the video.

[@greedyboi8431]

for abrahamic cults god is nothing but a fearful entity who they have to obey in order to attain heaven. abrahamic cults is based on fear. whereas in Hinduism God is a ever loving form of Supreme Brahman ( almighty).

[@mayankindian3750]

True brother 😊

[@magpiecity]

The Bhuta (?) Tantras sound interesting 😇

[@christopherwallis751]

LOL

[@manucarpizo]

The different levels of PRDS in kabbalah, the creation of the first vases (shevirat hakelim) and prior mistic jewish traditions might be interesting to you.

[@AlejandroDrago]

Loved the Nike yantra... 🤣🤣🤣😊

[@jbrock8129]

First off, I really wish someone would have told me ten years ago that Hindus don’t have “their version of the Bible.” I can’t tell you how long I spent trying to figure out what to read. I did finally realize there were the Vedas and the Upanishads etc., but nobody ever just straight up said, “Hey there’s no bible-like book in most other religions.” Would’ve saved me a lot of time (and confusion). Secondly, hearing all this made me REALLY glad that I grew up in a Christian religion that did NOT teach that Jesus “died for our sins.” It was pretty much solely focused on his teachings. Sin wasn’t really a thing for us. (The idea of being born with sin would have been ludicrous.) I was specifically told that the Bible was written by men not God, and sometimes their interpretations weren’t optimal. There was definitely no talk of end times, and Revelations was interpreted as wholly symbolic. I wasn’t told Jesus was God but that we are all equally God’s expression as Christ was, and there is no separation between God and his* expression. I didn’t get it when I was young, but it was essentially non-dual Christianity. (*I wasn’t taught that God was male, but the pronoun was used for easier communication/writing. I was taught that God is divine love, which has no form and therefore can’t be either sex-but, as indivisible wholeness, undivided love does contain both male and female. There was no hierarchy in our church, and it was founded by a woman, so I never got that secondhand patriarchal bs that men were more spiritual or the head of the household. My parents were very egalitarian. I didn’t realize how much until surfing YT the past few years.) While I don’t consider myself a Christian now, I am very curious about what you said about the eschaton. I always took any mention of “the end of times” or “the last judgment” to represent the dissolution of illusory separation (or Mara), when time literally ceases (or is seen to have never been). Has the specific, cataclysmic definition you described always been the definition, or more specifically was it Jesus’s definition? If it just means “the end,” it could be metaphorical, as the world as we know it does end when Reality is seen to be all there is, which could be described as a spiritual reset. Does he ever specify whether he means it literally or figuratively? I mean, the man tends to speak almost exclusively in figurative language, which leads me to question any kind of literal/material translation. I’m a fan of several of the books that have been banned from Christian canon, particularly the Gospel of St. Thomas and the Gospel of Mary. While there are huge sections of Mary’s gospel that have been destroyed, the theme is the same throughout: Jesus was teaching something deeper than most were willing to hear. Even his own disciples didn’t really get it. There’s no mention of end times, and it is pretty much entirely focused on uncovering that which seems to prevent us from abiding as our core being. She specifically mentions the universal pitfalls that we tend to mistake for our true selves, the layers of illusion that we uncover as we return to our “heart.” It’s a far cry from the Jesus presented in the gospels, but once the underlying message of inherent wholeness becomes clear, it shifts the interpretation of the canon parables, which are then seen to be neither moralistic nor cryptically prophetic but simply non-dual pointers. I like the parts of Christianity (and Islam and Judaism) that point back to the wholeness of being, but I think Buddhism and Classical non-dual Tantra do a better job of getting the wholeness message across. Overall, your video didn’t piss me off 😅 It concerned me in many ways, but I thought it was interesting, because of course I’m perplexed by Christians who do the opposite of what Jesus preached. But you actually made it pretty understandable how/why that contradiction exists. Having all this spelled out makes it easier to understand their reasoning, which makes them seem slightly less terrifying. So I consider that a win for compassion. Thanks! ❤️☮️

[@christopherwallis751]

thanks for your comment! as for Jesus' understanding of the eschaton, first let's acknowledge that we know hardly anything for sure about what Jesus actually believed about anything, because we can't be sure which ideas attributed to him go back to him. But when the "criterion of embarrassment" applies, we can be much more sure. This scholarly hermeneutic means that when Jesus is said to have said something that poses a problem for the early church, then he must have actually said it, because no-one would make up a saying that was problematic for the church. A good example is Jesus' predictions that didn't come true -- like when he told the 12 apostles that they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. He probably envisioned this radically altered scenario in the context of the Eschaton, in which the meek (e.g. his community) would literally inherit the earth. Since Jesus called himself the Son of Man -- a much more grandiose claim than "son of God", in the historical context of that time -- he probably imagined that he would be King over Israel, if not the whole world, post-Eschaton. (with the apostles ruling under him.) In other words, he imagined himself to be the literal Messiah of the Hebrew prophecies, someone who would become King in both a worldly and spiritual sense. Now as to whether it could all be metaphor -- of course I think that's the most spiritually efficacious way to read it today, and that's also how the Gnostics read it in the three centuries after Jesus' death. His death (and the manner of it) actively pushes the devoted reader to reinterpret the things he said and take them metaphorically. But there's no reason to suspect that Jesus meant these statements metaphorically when he said them. Statements like (speaking to a group of his followers), "Someone of you here will not taste death before [the Eschaton] comes." Like, the end-times are coming within a few decades, max. J Brock, I think that you were given the best version of Christianity possible. But in the task of historical inquiry and fact-finding, we have to separable the historical Jesus from the theology we would like him to have spoken. When you view him as a real person like the rest of us, and situate him in his historical context, and set aside whatever you would *like* to be true about him, a very different picture emerges. And here we're not even getting into all the problems with the Pauline letters that make up so much of the "New Testament" -- remember it was Paul who made Christian theology hinge on the alleged historicity of the resurrection. "If Christ be not resurrected, your faith is in vain." The whole theology is problematic up and down the line, and you have to be willing to part ways with the established church (in any of its versions) to come up with something coherent and workable -- as the community of your upbringing thankfully did.

[@indianmilitary]

J Brock 'Teachings of JESUS" - based on monotheistic assumptions like god, heaven and hell which cannot be validated by logic, experiment or embodied experience. 😂😂But Hindu/Vedic metaphysics Sankhya (around which Hindu temple, yoga and tantra traditions were built) can be validated by logic or double slit quantum experiment and embodied experience. It also means, there is no concept of god or heaven or hell in Hindu/Vedic tradition. ERWIN SCHRODINGER (ONE OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS OF QUANTUM MECHANICS) Schrodinger's biographer Moore wrote -- “His system - or that of the Hindu Upanishads/Vedas - is delightful and consistent: the self and the world are one and they are all. He rejected traditional western religious beliefs (Jewish, Christian, and Islamic) not on the basis of any reasoned argument, nor even with an expression of emotional antipathy, for he loved to use religious expressions and metaphors, but simply by saying that they are naïve--and will NOT understand Quantum theory and consciousness. (CONSCIOUS, IMMANENT AND OMNIPRESENT SELF = SHIVA and THOUGHTS/BODY/W0RLD/UNIVERSE = SHAKTHI OR THE INTELLIGENT ENERGY) Erwin Schrodinger wrote: “Vedanta teaches that consciousness is singular, all happenings are played out in one universal consciousness and there is no multiplicity of selves.”

[@OrichalcumHammer]

There is another fundamental problem with Abrahamic religion. Abrahamic God is different and separate from his creation aka Duality. This essentially states the feeling of oneness is against the very basis of this religions. Hence non-dual fundamentally is heresy in Christianity or shirk in Islam which is the biggest sin for which you would be beheaded in medieval times.

[@sven888]

Jesus did not die on the cross. I can assure you that.

[@salj.5459]

@@sven888Why not? Crucifixion happened to thousands of people

[@davidcook637]

What do you think accounts for the trend you mention among Hindus to insist on the historical truth of certain events in their religion?

[@christopherwallis751]

Western influence, as I said in the video. We don't see any concern with historicity in the pre-modern Sanskrit sources whatsoever.

[@davidcook637]

@@christopherwallis751 Western influence meaning the belief in linear time vs mythic time?

[@christopherwallis751]

more the emphasis on historicity in Abrahamic religions, which as I mention in the video, are historically contingent.

[@davidcook637]

@@christopherwallis751 And the desire of Hindus to develop a more historically true style of their religion is due to what? Perceptions of legitimacy bestowed by dates vs the traditional form of Hinduism?

[@abhijeetbhagat100]

@@davidcook637 your first question answer because hindu think they crack the code with conscious, atma, God and due to Muslim religion their heritage get destroyed

[@marilaucher9989]

I would just like to make a comment on what you said about Hindus thinking that Indologists or Western Scholars have a covert agenda That has not been my experienc.While it is true that there are a lot of defensive Hindu Nationals in India who are cynical towards the West and frankly who could blame them in some sense , but that said and by the way I'm not a Hindu scholar I study Shavism,I do get a lot of encouragement from my friends in India. They do however have a serious issue with the Christian conversionists who are mainly opportunists.

[@adarshraghuram6858]

This is precisely it. We definitely have a list of reasonable objections to western distortions and some unreasonable ones. We all have an unequivocal objection to predatory proselytization. The sort that goes after vulnerable people with personal crises in their lives. The frustration for many of us is trying to convince some westerners that this is wrong. There are many well-minded ones who get it, such as yourself.

[@Dale_The_Space_Wizard]

Where can one learn about this Bhuta mara tantra?

[@luigimafia10201]

@12:50 gotta turn on the video and see this!

[@BlumChoi]

This is very similar to Judesim, love it! It is even inferred from the "Mishna" that even if god came down from earth and said that what conclusion the Rabbis arrived at by using logic is wrong, it wouldn't matter, what matters is their logic.

[@ericsteinert4954]

Thanks a lot for your pretty good lecture about the flaws of abrahamitic religions. These inherent contradictions of christianity made me as a child of 6 to 9 to a non believer of that religion. It was simply too stupid! Sometimes the bible offers interesting stories like greek or germanic sagas, but at nearly the same level. Or the radical humanity of Jesus, wow I loved it! But the last was not realized in daily christian life, only except in very,very rare cases. It is not even a matter of discussion among people who call themselves Christians. The only thing that reconciles me with Christianity are the mystics like Meister Eckhard or Teresa from Avila or others.

[@indianmilitary]

Christianity falls apart without its son of god Jesus. Islam too without its prophet. Without their prophets they become Jews.

[@robertmitchell8630]

Rajiv Malhothra Desert Abrahamic religions V Dharmic forest religions kzbin.info/www/bejne/pn6vZaxjrKdsfqssi=Ztsa5vltPf1Rw0Qn Pt 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJamfoejj8eahNUsi=2tbr7zk0DM_vFCb1

[@sven888]

I think we no longer understand the words that were written. We came to see everything as separate. Maybe a small percentage of people understand.

[@justinfinch2458]

love you chris, mostly agree, but this is usually a case where inherent contradictions are necessary to perceive, and the bible can be seen more as Lila, necessary plays needed to be played out to alter humanities path and to create a new path way to the divine, i think christs main message is just love and serve people, literalism and dogmatism is what negatively polarized forces use to further enslave humanity, but i pray christ as much as i pray Ram, i see no contradiction for what opens my heart to the infinite love of God

[@salj.5459]

Thank you for explaining the affects of Pauline Christianity. I always wondered why most Christians don't even attempt to act like Jesus.

[@premranjan1642]

Thanks for this, clarified a lot of things, a Proud Hindu

[@martinspiering5817]

Well argued--thank you. Like you, I became very disenchanted with (Christian) religion when I was around 7 years old (learning about God's order to Abraham to kill Isaac pushed me over the edge, never mind that it was just a ruse). Like any tradition, Christianity has some very valuable teachings (like the parables and the Beatitudes). But to me *the* main drawback, especially for Christianity, is the heavy emphasis on scripture (greatly amplified by Martin Luther's maxim "sola scriptura," which carries to this day, even in the modern-day version of science with its insistence on data and "facts," often wholly divorced from human experience). I think the pramana theory of knowledge, coming from Indian logic and debate, which orders instruments of knowledge as direct experience, inference, and analogy, with hearsay (including scriptures) coming dead last, is a potent antidote to the epistemic confusions (largely owing to the full reversal of this order in Western culture) we're seeing today. Radical (Humean-type) empiricism seems to be what's called for to untangle/unbind ourselves .

[@treeorbs479]

Have you heard of Caesar's Messiah? It explains all the Gospels it is quite amazing. The generation that Jesus was referring to, was a literal 40-year generation and Titus flavius sacked Jerusalem forty years after the supposed writing of the Gospels. Titus flavius was also known as the son of god. I would love to hear your opinion of Caesar's Messiah, and thank you for all your videos they've been a big help. ❤️

[@percubit10]

The picture of Jesus everyone is worshiping is actually the picture of Flavious or so they say.

[@moneymatters983]

Jesus actually said this was going to happen with amazing clarity. A prophecy fulfilled.

[@2024south]

If you close the eyes. Stop thinking. Then answers will come to questions directly to your mind. That's all. There is no name to this concept.

[@angelahinagates2971]

Very intelligent critique but it leaves out the mystical experience , the direct experiences that people may have of Yeshua....I do feel his teachings are embodied in the way he lived, unconditional love, forgiveness, acceptance, pure love.his teachings are profound part of that path.... the kingdom of heaven is within, his selfless service, his sacrifices, his courage.....the tipping of the tables in the temple. Can the father figure not change and respond according to what is needed in each context ie old testament, new testament??? Where is the rigidness? in the manuscript or in the one listening or reading it? I have asked very open questions and been boxed in by someone who immediately put me into a category and box

[@cosmoscripts2422]

Thanks, enjoyed listening - individual critical thinking seems so lacking nowadays. Abrahamic religions, like scientific physical realism, have a need for dualistic mythology. Indeed, Christ was crucified when he spoke of "I and my Father are one", a non-dualistic perspective. I can only rationalize that we are intended to think dualistically so we can play out the illusion according to our karma. 😄🙏❤️

[@christopherwallis751]

FWIW, scholars agree that the Romans crucified him because his followers thought he would become the King of Israel. It was purely political. They didn't care what his teachings were.

[@cosmoscripts2422]

@@christopherwallis751 Ah yes, that makes sense given he was a true political threat at that time. But you have to wonder why he gathered so many followers and why he alluded to non-dualism in his teachings. Fascinating subject. Thanks.

[@indianmilitary]

@@cosmoscripts2422 "Why he alluded to non dualism"? Well, it is the reason Hindus say anybody can have whatever experience Jesus had😂. Without Jesus (who is projected to be the son of god) Christianity falls apart. Islam fails too without its prophet. You might as well become a follower of Judaism. But it does not mean Judaism's monotheistic claims like god, heaven and hell can be validated by logic or experiment or embodied experience either. So, all 3 Abrahamic religions are illogical and were not built around any well validated metaphysics. Truth is Jesus did not exist. Jesus was a figment of imagination of Helena- the jewish mother of King constantine.. If you still like to believe he existed, at least try to validate the nicene creed claims of Christianity like ``Virgin birth ``'' son of god". if you don't validate, then you are just blindly believing that he existed based on fantasy stories propagated as history.. Magdalene existed but so called Jesus did not. She was obviously the wife of a person called Damsa (a sidekick of APOLLONIUS OF TYANA). Apollonius of Tyana (an enlightened pagan sage) was suppressed but his sidekick Damsa was propagated as the enlightened one and he was re-named as so called 'Jesus". This is nothing but identity theft.

[@cosmoscripts2422]

@@indianmilitary It is hard to deny historical accounts of Jesus’ actual existence as a physical being and that really isn’t worth debating. What is of essence are the meanings of the teachings attributed to him from the New Testament Gospels. From what I have gathered, the teachings are that of being devoted to God who is all loving and living life in accordance with the ‘Golden Rule’ which is identical to ‘ahimsa’ in eastern traditions. Jesus’ teachings ring the same tune as those of the avatars and representative sages of Vishnu in Vedanta which is at least 3000 years before Jesus' time and well before the other Abrahamic religions. Vishnu, as you probably know, was one of the Trimurti gods in the karmic wheel of time: Brahma (creator), Vishnu (preserver) and Shiva (destroyer). In ancient Indian sutras, the circularly moving Trimurti enabled continuous and entangled evolution in the universe from the macro to the micro cosmic levels - the study of modern day scientists. Jesus, in my opinion, had the qualities of a Vishnu-like ‘preserver’ of humanity (indeed, he was part of the Christian 'Trinity'.) and he spoke of wisdom similar to that acquired through transcendence by yogis. Bottom line - have a look at the essence in the teachings of the prophets keeping in mind that the story lines in them are in the relatable context of their culture of their time. If the METAPHORS in the teachings intuitively feel right (meaning to me they better ALL living beings to peacefully co-exist and evolve in natural states of harmony) then they will prevail. Namaste

[@OrichalcumHammer]

@@cosmoscripts2422 I dont think Jesus Christ was a political threat to Roman Empire. Jesus preach apocalypticism where he used the fear of idea that the world would end in his lifetime to gain followers and his god Yahweh would smite the Romans occupying Israel and deliver Israel to Jesus where Yahweh would then rightly anoint Jesus as messiah(anointed king in Hebrew) to preside as the King of Jews. Such a person is considered as a Pretender who is trying to instigate rebellion and the punishment for challenging the Roman authority was Crucifixion. Usually in a crucifixion where the body was not removed within a few days but left to rot and scavenging birds eat away at it and insects infest that body. Apparently crucifixion was based upon the belief that general public who held the Roman Polytheist views, where their body as equally important and would not want defilement even after their death. Christian cared more about Life in heaven hence Christianity twisted crucifixion as martyrdom under Paul. Also Abrahamic god plays the role of Egyptian god Anubis a gatekeeper of heaven weighing sins. This is more pronounced is islam where muslim just want to visit heaven so they can get their 72 virgins. It is not about relationship with their god Allah. Allah is just a gatekeeper as mentioned above.

[@paperclips1306]

These days People are sharing their religious practices with others. This must be completely prohibited. Only seekers who seek should get knowledge. There should be absolutely no pressure on non seekers and atheists to follow religion. No religion should have a conversion wing like evangelism in Christianity and dawah in islam, and outreach in Iskcon, isha foundation, and all religions across the world must stop preaching and spamming what people should believe. Only a seeker must know. This is dharma of the society. It is the way society should work. Never unnecessarily share spiritual practices with others unless to an ardent seeker.

[@mayankindian3750]

Hm true brother 😊

[@tristandorling]

There seem to be number of flaws with this argument. The first one is that not all Christians hold that a certain number of texts are sacred and true. In the early years after Christ died there were arguments over which texts should be considered to be sacred and which ones not. And those disagreements continue today, with many Christians considering the so called "gnostic texts" to be sacred, on a par with other texts that are included in the bible. So, there is no common agreement even amongst Christians. But, the more problematic issue here is that there seems to be the assumption the Jesus was not teaching within the dharmic traditions. I have never seen any evidence that this was the case. He taught prayer, which is a fundamental practice within the dharmic traditions. He also taught fasting, which again is a fundamental practice. He taught charity (dana) and service (seva). He taught restraints and observances on conduct (yamas and niyamas). In fact there was nothing that he did, or taught, that does not fit squarely within the dharmic traditions. He followed the guru/ chela (teacher/ disciple) model of Guru Yoga, and he emphasised practice over study, in the same way that the Buddha did. And within the dharmic traditions, it is not at all uncommon to find Guru/chela based schools where the teacher is considered to be special in some way, even being elevated to the level of Divinity. That happens in both the Krishna worshiping traditions and the Shiva worshiping traditions. So, the situation with Jesus is no different from that. I would not say that these Guru yoga schools, such as Christianity and the Krishna worshipping schools are reliant on historical facts being true. Their central teachings transcends the necessity for Krishna or Christ to have actually lived in human form. Even if it turned out that those two people never actually lived, the salvation teachings and practices of these traditions would remain the same.

[@christopherwallis751]

Your last three sentences restate exactly the argument I am making in the video. As for your argument that Jesus implicitly taught within the dharma traditions, I think it's beside the point. Yes of course there are parallels, but the two cultures (which provide the context of these teachings) are very very different. Anyway, it's orthogonal to my argument, which is that Christian theology shifted away from what Jesus taught to who he supposedly *was*.

[@tristandorling]

In your video you were saying that Christianity is dependent on the historical fact of Jesus's resurrection. I was pointing out that traditions such as the Krishna worshiping traditions manage just fine without the need to prove historical facts, and so there is no reason why Christianity would be any different. Personally I have not noticed that differences in culture make a great deal of difference, when it comes to spiritual traditions. This is why we see the same spiritual traditions being practiced by people all over the world, producing the same spiritual transformations. When it comes to Christian theology, it is a complicated situation, because there are many people in the world who call themselves Christians, who are actually not Christians. Being a Christian is not simply a process of a person self-identifying as a Christian, and then doing and believing anything they want. A Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, so it is a very specific definition. So, someone cannot be a Christian and go to war and kill people for example, because they would be going against the teachings of Jesus Christ. In that situation, they would be a person who thinks they are a Christian, but who is mistaken about what they are. This does mean that a lot of history books are incorrect, and need to be fixed! The move in Christian theology away from the teachings of Jesus towards the status of Jesus, may have been made in part by these people who claim to be Christians, but who are not. It would help to hide the fact of their hypocrisy. In my experience, genuine Christian theology, that of actual Christians, is still based on the teachings of Jesus. When it comes to the status of Jesus, because Christianity is a practice, rather than a doctrine, the status of Jesus changes for each individual, as the practice develops over time. We find this happening with the Krishna worshiping traditions, where Krishna can start out as a worshipped Deity (perceived separate self), and then become "teacher", and then "friend", and finally "Self". The same thing gradually happens for Christians, in relation to Jesus, as their worship deepens. So the perceived status of Jesus, in practice, is not a fixed thing.

[@christopherwallis751]

So your definition of 'Christian', despite not being found in the Bible, overrides all other definitions that people formulate for themselves? Upon what basis can you justify that assertion? Pretty huge epistemological problem there.

[@tristandorling]

​@@christopherwallis751 I don't see any epistemological problem. Definitions of words don't have to be found in the bible. They can be found in the dictionary. For example in the Longman dictionary of the English language: "Christian- A person who acknowledges the Divinity of Jesus Christ, who believes that by his sacrificial death, he made possible the forgiveness of sins, and who attempts to follow his teachings as contained in the bible.". Or, from the Wikipedia page on Christians: "Christians are people who adhere to Christianity... based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. ". This is important, because if words simply mean whatever anyone wants them to mean, then we lose the ability to communicate. What does "Shiva" mean? Does it mean whatever anyone wants it to mean? Or Tantrika? Or Shakti? Or kula (kaula)? Or Chakra? Or Kundalini? Or Yoga? As far as I can see, the term "Christian invader" is an oxymoron. And yet, the history books use the term frequently, as if it is valid. I have not seen any evidence that it is anything other than an error. When it comes to the clergy, I would be very surprised if there was a Christian priest, or vicar, or bishop, or monk, or nun, or saint who would say that a Christian is someone other than a person who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

[@indianmilitary]

@@tristandorling 1. "Krishna worshiping traditions manage just fine without the need to prove historical facts, and so there is no reason why Christianity would be any different" But you are wrongly assuming that Krishna is a "god" who is "worshiped" by Hindus. In other words, you are looking at Hindu tradition through the lens of "monotheistic" assumptions like god, heaven and hell (followed by ABRAHAMIC religions) which cannot be validated by logic or experiment or embodied experience. In other words, the monotheistic core of Abrahamic religions simply says that there is just a transcendent god who is totally disconnected from the energy realm but still can “create” the universe and its laws of nature out of thin air and also override them whenever wanted by just using a magic wand😊. It also means, monotheism wrongly assumes that after 'creation", the universe and everything in it can exist or function on its own without the immanence and omnipresence of their "transcendent" god as the omnipresent soul and its consciousness ( an attribute just like heat is an attribute of fire and the sun) which is needed to “mediate” all dualities of nature to happen eg manifestation/concealment duality cycle of the universe (not creation or destruction), birth/decay (including human reincarnation cycle), energy/matter, summer/winter etc. In other words, none of the Abrahamic religions were built around any well validated metaphysics..It led to needless prophets/middlemen/son of god/messiah, angels, blind belief in a book. nonexistent heaven/hell, fantasy stories (propagated as history), one life, proselytization, half-baked responsibilities and discrimination/violence against non-believers and nature (including meat consumption) due to lack of understanding of dharma (one should abide by natural law by following ethics, duty, virtue to sustain the balance and harmony of the world), law of Karma or cause and effect (created by memories, likes/dislikes and violation of dharma or the natural law), reincarnation (birth/death duality cycle of humans triggered by karma or cause and effect) and Moksha (microcosm to macrocosm) 2 Polytheism believes in the existence of many independent and distinct gods, completely unrelated to each other. The polytheists lacked any understanding of the inherent unity of every manifest thing, including their multiple gods. So, polytheism also cannot be validated by logic or experiment or embodied experience. 3. But in Hindu tradition, the non translatable Sanskrit word Brahman is NOT the same as god. Hindu/Vedic tradition based on the well validated Vedic metaphysics Sankhya says that there is nothing other than the conscious, immortal, immutable, self-luminous, immanent (athma), transcendent and omnipresent Brahman and its intelligent energy. Hindus use cosmic allegories Shiva or Vishnu or Brahma for the immanent and omnipresent conscious self and Shakthi or Lakshmi or Saraswathi for intelligent energy. Husband and wife cannot exist without each other. So, they always exist together for the perpetual duality cycles of nature to happen eg Birth/decay (including human reincarnation cycle), manifestation and concealment duality cycle of the universe (not creation or destruction of the universe), wave/particle, energy/matter, wake/sleep, man/woman, summer/winter, freezing/melting .etc This is Sankhya vedic metaphysics (around which the whole hindu tradition was built including temple tradition, yoga and tantra) which can be validated by logic, double slit quantum experiment and embodied experience (focus and meditation)

[@cordes6900]

I guess that it's also a bit a Western idea that all Abrahamic traditions are ''somewhat equal''. Noticing about 15 years ago myself that Jews were invited in India to conventions of unconvincing/non evangelic religions, while Islam and Christianity were not. Maybe it's also because Jews in the Anglosaxon world did often adept towards the Western mindsets. While there are many Judaisms, with all kind of meditation, mysticism that is close to Vedic knowledge or mysticism out of pre Islamic Baghdad and other sources. Like in the time of King David pre Budhistic times Jews allready were in India to trade , make poems etc. Well thanks, curious to hear what the ''flaw'' might be.

[@indianmilitary]

"Flaws" - Lack of well validated metaphysics- is the flaw Abrahamic religions suffer from. Monotheistic assumptions like god, heaven and hell cannot be validated by logic, experiment or embodied experience.

[@AlexandarShmex]

Judaism stopped existing after Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. What exists since then is Talmudism, a tribal, closed-off, supremacist ideology, of which chief deity is Moloch/Remphan.

[@tripalongbrasil]

The key difference is that Judaism does not adhere to proselytism, unlike the other two. Proselytism is the source of war, violence and intolerance of Islam and Christianity.

[@Christoth2012]

I really wish that Europe would have gone with the non dual traditions of Platonism (Plotinus, Proclus etc) instead of Christianity, perhaps a lot of horrors could have been avoided.

[@Paul-cr7qm]

Yeah we should have better absorbed the Greeks Stoicism and logic, as well as Aristotle's virtue ethics. The virtues and vices are self evident and unchanging. They are cause and effect based.

[@indianmilitary]

Christoth The Greek philosophy of ETHOS-LOGOS-PATHOS was totally , 100% lifted from Indian/Hindu Vedanta. Greeks never really understood the real essence of profound subjects like Epistemology, though hindu sages taught them in India. Pythagoras ( died 495 BC ) and Plato studied in India. Aristotle lifted from Vedanta material taken out of India Plato ( died 348 BC ) , a homosexual shared his stolen from Kodungallur University (in Kerala south India) spoils with his mentor Socrates ( died 399 BC ) , and fellow homosexual side kick Aristotle ( died 322 BC ) and got himself immortalized as the founder of the Academy in Athens, the first institution of higher learning in the Western world. Aristotle initiated Alexander the great into homosexuality. Both knowledge of the senses and subtle knowledge are gained by six methods of knowledge. Epistemology in hindu philosophy is divided into six Pramanas. Pramanas examines the nature of knowledge and how one can acquire . Pramanas cover the philosophical analysis of the nature of knowledge and how it relates to such concepts as truth, belief, and justification. It investigates the origin, nature, methods, and limits of human knowledge. Even today, the modern mind has NOT reached the bottom of the ancient Indian sage’s mind. Western historian must know that Greek philosophy was stolen from Indian/Hindu philosophy written 4500 years earlier. The six pramanas as correct means of accurate knowledge and to truths are: Pratyakṣa (perception), Anumāṇa (inference), Upamāṇa (comparison and analogy), Arthāpatti (postulation, derivation from circumstances), Anupalabdi (non-perception, negative/cognitive proof) and Śabda (word, testimony of past or present reliable experts). Each of these are further categorized in terms of conditionality, completeness, confidence and possibility of error, by each school of Indian philosophies.

[@Paul-cr7qm]

@@indianmilitary and yet even today can you find an Indian sage who can correctly describe the specific PROCESS of discernment which manually removes confusion and ignorance? Or one that can list the virtues and vices in their proper format? Buddha was right about the near and far enemy concept but Aristotle went into further detail with virtue ethics. He however erred in that he said they weren't founded in universal principles... Which they 💯 are. Also do the Indian sages comprehend the 6 operational conditions of the Tao. Because this works at a macro level as well as at a micro level for each individual speech, intention, deeds etc This shows how the virtues and vices start to blur or con-fuse at four steps between the two polarities. From here the Indian sage (or Taoist for that matter) could have shown the difference between morality and mores. Then they could have shown the whole world we all have Mores. The blurred version which prevent full accord with the Tao, logos, Dharma etc. Each culture must realise these things are observable to any of us and stop being egotistical as though anyone but the absolute can take credit. Having said that, I do appreciate stuff I got from eastern philosophy more than Abrahamic . .. FOR SURE. And am grateful for that contribution.

[@AlexandarShmex]

Well, if you studied Orthodox Christianity in depth and the Desert Fathers, you'd understand that all of it was integrated into Christian Path. But since you didn't you make this comment. Is the Western civilization that brought every single medical, technological and societal wealth the horror you'd like to avoid as well? In this world things are black, white and everything in between, you should already have that understanding. The reason why we strive to leave this world through Moksha is because we see through this necessity and don't see our Real Self as being tied to it.

[@magnuscritikaleak5045]

But the extinct Mutazillites Tried to Implement Aristolean Ethics.

[@yusufalhurr1724]

Dear Chris, thanks for sharing your perspective. You make very valid points but I am afraid the arguments are a bit too hasty. What you view as a flaw would be considered on the contrary as the main strength of these religious traditions. Before I go on I just want to state that I don't have a dog in this fight because I believe the discussion is actually way more complex. Yes traditional Christianity hinges upon the death and resurrection of Christ but your interpretation of this is the Anselm of Canterbury theory of the vicarious sacrifice of Christ on the cross. But this is only of many other traditional interpretations of that event. Now, while it is true that the historicity of that event is crucial for Christianity it is also true that UNLESS we ourselves carry our cross, let our old self die on it, descend into the abyss of the Underworld to redeem our "ancestors" and are resurrected as a minor god, Christ's death is meaningless. This is standard teaching in the Eastern Orthodox Church. it's all about theosis: God becomes man so that man becomes God and this implies all of man, including our material dimension that is transformed through theosis. If matter is to become spiritualised and divine then God Himself has to descend into History and redeem our materiality. I understand where you come from, given that you were brought up in the US with a certain type of Christianity around you BUT I would argue that American Christianity is at best a charicature. There is in Christianity a touching dimension of making God accessible to man by ending all "similes, parables and myths". As St Thomas Aquinas in his liturgical hymn Panis Angelicus says that Christ in the Sacred Sacrament is figuris terminum, the end of all similes, accessible to even his lowest servant. Again none of this works if the exterior event of death and resurrection don't become interior events in our own lives. And that is stated over and over again, especially in the Philocalia of the Eastern Church or the great Catholic mystics. Where your point is very accurate is that in Protestantism, merely mental acknowledgment of the historical death and resurrection of Christ suffices but that would not be representative of Orthodoxy or even Catholicism. Unless we ourselves die on the cross Christ may die a thousand times on Golgotha, it would not save us. Also historicity IS important in Dharmic traditions when it comes to parampara (lineage). There clearly is the idea of a transmission from master to disciple going back to an original founder of a tradition as is the case with the apostolic lineage in Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Again, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I believe the perspective needs to be slightly adapted. First of all the divide between dharmic and Abrahamic traditions is problematic because of the Iranian dimension: all the fundamental doctrines in Judaism, Christianity and Islam can be traced back to Iran. Then of course you have Manichaism that overlaps both categories. I believe a better approach would have been the question of the balance between esoteric and exoteric dimensions of religion which would have been better. lots of love Chris Francisco

[@christopherwallis751]

thanks for your comments, old friend! where are you these days?

[@yusufalhurr1724]

@@christopherwallis751 Awwww man I live in Baghdad nowadays. Been trying to reach you through messenger. I am really happy you settled not far away from my mother's village. Let's catch up. It's been too long.

[@AlexandarShmex]

Very well written Francisco, thank you.

[@yusufalhurr1724]

@@AlexandarShmex Thank you fpr your kind words.

[@ramkumar_watch]

Well said. Excellent video. As a Hindu, I agree with you 100 %.

[@AshokGupta-oq6hs]

Sir,the Abrahmic 3 sibling religions are based on 3 individuals one in each case who had communion with their respective formless male Gods and thereby limit the capabilities of their respective Gods. And the historical fact is that these 3 Gods are always fighting among themselves as well as other Gods/Goddesses .

[@markkavanagh9423]

There is just so much wrong with what you are saying. It appears that you believe that some of the statements made by Jesus in the Gospels were later interpreted by Paul in such a way as to account for their lack of their fulfillment. Time stamp -35:00, Paul's letters were written before the Gospels. I am not sure why you even did this video but having said that, I want to say that I have found your books very helpful in my attempt to understand Neo Platonism. One of the foundational philosophy's of Christianity . Can't thank you enough.

[@christopherwallis751]

as to why i did the video, I actually explain that at the beginning. didn't mean to imply that Paul was interpreting the gospels per se, but he was reinterpreting the oral accounts circulating in his time that would soon become the gospels. maybe consider the possibility that you're one of the folks I mentioned that were inevitably gonna be offended by this video? but, take it or leave it, of course. more interesting to you might be the fact that neo-platonism might have influenced the formation of Tantra to some extent! :)

[@BlumChoi]

5:45 here you go

[@jppj5977]

Sufi was a hook for conversion. This became the Trojan Horse for breaking down Dharmic systems 😢😢😢

[@lesscott4301]

As a Buddhist who was brought up in the Christian tradition, I find Buddhism is very universal, whereas Christianity to me is very narrow.

[@phoenixj1299]

Buddhism is part of dharmic traditions. Dharmic traditions are always open minded. Abrahamic religions are not.

[@himanshukandwal8710]

09:03 most hindu pooja(worship) is based on Puranas and not vedas. That's what 0.00001% know. Great knowledge you have. ❤️ All hindus say vedas are our sacred text but yet they believe in puranas and not vedas. 🤣🤣

[@indianmilitary]

Sorry not true. Hindu temple tradition is also based on Vedic metaphysics Sankhya (which combines Advaitha and Dvaitha) just like yoga and tantra traditions. Moreover, stone deities in Hindu temples are neither for worship nor for prayer. Stone deities are used for 2 reasons. a. They are used as objects of attraction (so given bath, food and decorated with makeup, dress, jewels etc) for focus and meditation in the presence of Sanskrit mantra vibrations, augmented by temple architecture, sanctum Sanctorum (space where deities are kept) and shape/ posture of deities. So, hindu temples are seen as powerful energy centers. This technique is for reaching samadhi state which is nothing but the disappearance of perception of subject (ego self) and object (external world or the deity focused upon) split momentarily (temple tradition) or temporarily and permanently (in Yoga tradition) to remove past karma or cause and effect (stored in the subtle body Chitta) and stop reincarnation (birth/death duality cycle) or to fulfill desires with reduced karmic burden b. Stone deities are also symbolic representations of the well validated Vedic metaphysics Sankhya, nature (surya (sun), chandra (moon), rain, thunder devatas etc) and laws of nature (Karma, Dharma devatas etc). Devatas maintain cosmic order. c. Some of the rituals are also symbolic like offering flowers (to give up memories), bananas (for giving up attachments to anything achieved) and breaking coconuts (to give up ego). As far as "ritual powder" or Vibhuti is concerned, it is nothing, but ash applied on the forehead. It is interpreted either as a symbolic reminder that this body is temporary and will be eventually cremated or just to show that in expanded states of consciousness (so called opening of third eye) one can get cosmic experience.(which is equivalent to manifesting matter) d. In the same way, the tradition also gives importance to the concept of dharma or natural law when it comes to both animate and inanimate which contribute to stability and harmony of the universe..(it is not just about humanity). It is the reason why cows/snakes/monkeys/plants/trees are not worshiped but revered for doing their dharmic duty. Always remember, except human species (which violate dharma or the natural law due to ego and free will) non human species (animate and inanimate) are pre-programmed to follow the natural law or dharma. Even bacteria which stinks up our excretion and dead bodies can be revered for doing their dharmic duty or natural law (Imagine, if there was no bacteria to do its dharmic duty, Humans would preserve their dead relatives without worrying about the cost of creating mummies and even eat their excretion if there was no food to eat 😀). Humans who follow dharma or the natural law can also be revered because such people have zero ego and also do not create karma or cause and effect despite acting in the world..

[@indianmilitary]

2. Ithihasas (Ramayana and Mahabhartha) and Puranas can be neither called "myth" nor history". They have both real events and allegorical stories which represent laws of nature. Myth means fantasy stories which cannot be validated. The word myth aptly fits fantasy stories propagated by Abrahamic religions which cannot be validated. There is an allegorical story in Mahabharatha which explains space time dilation (copied later by Einstein) . eg King Kakudmi visiting Brahmalokha with his daughter Revathi and staying their for just 20 min. When he returned he could not find any of his family and relatives, the sons and grandsons-and there was NO record of the family tree. An example of Maya of time.

[@himanshukandwal8710]

@@indianmilitary i am saying most of the temples are puranic. 😛😛

[@DHRUVS63]

So what puranas are meant for average human of kali yuga

[@prosantomukerji3931]

@Christophers Wallis: You reference the Bhagwat Gita, and Krishna caught my attention. Two reasons show Bhagwat Gita FALSELY claims to contain the verbal discourse Krishna supposedly gave Arjun during the Mahabharath war of 5561 BCE. First, Arjun and Krishna died without leaving any manuscript necessary for the reliable printing of the Gita. The earliest printing of the Gita occurred after many generations over a few centuries in the 15th century after the invention of the Gutenberg printing press from another manuscript by an anonymous author who was not even born during the Mahabharath of 5561 BCE. More importantly, according to a Hindu historian, Nilesh Oak, Krishna was born in 3228 BCE, >2000 years AFTER the Mahabharath war of 5561 BCE. Because Krishna was not even born during the mahabharath War, any claim that Bhagwat Gita supposedly contains Krishna's verbal discourse is FALSE and ABSURD.

[@christopherwallis751]

I think such arguments are pointless. "Krishna" is simply the name we give to whoever wrote the Gītā. The Gītā has the status of scripture, and deserves it, regardless of the fact that we know nothing about who wrote it. Missing that point is missing the point of the video! The Gītā's status is NOT historically contingent.

[@paperclips1306]

It doesn't matter now. It is not a matter of historical integrity anymore. And by the way writing is prohibited until 10 century in India, all traditions are orally passed down. The very fact that Mahabharata is called a smriti is because smr: root word means memory, smriti is the one recited from memory. Even now we should prohibit people from writing religious texts. But it happens. We can't stop. But atleast religious practice should be hidden from people outside the sampradaya.

[@user-fw6pr3zd2j]

Sir, the major issues of middle east religions are their absolute unitary nature and their total reliance on 3 individuals one in each case,and formlessness of unitary God which is relaxed in Christianity where Jesus is an avatar of God in human form. In fact the formlessness is the greatest issue as no worship is possible without form. Symbols words a box have forms! Of course one can meditate but there too mind is focussing on some form.

[@philosopheronamission5649]

Thank you for these great insights. I have to point out that you are mistaken about Jesus never saying he was going to die and resurrect for the sins of his people and that this was only taught by Paul. Here are the references with Jesus speaking: Luke 24:46-48 NASBS and He said to them, “ Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, [47] and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. [48] 48 You are witnesses of these things. Matthew 26:27-28 NASBS And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; [28] 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. John 10:17-18 NASBS 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. [18] 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” Matthew 17:22-23 NASBS And while they were gathering together in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men; [23] 23 and they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day.” Of course, there is a debate over what the historical Jesus said and did not say, but apart from denying that these are authentic, they are words spoken by Jesus himself.

[@AaronSilver-Pell]

Well, the kabballah says that the stories are not necessarily historical, and we have heard things like "Jesus came once" so even though they don't align perfectly with the history of this earth, we assume that they are teachings meant to guide us. If we didn't have them, than there wouldn't be 7.6 billion people alive or whatever the number happens to be today.

[@indianmilitary]

I don't know whether "stories" of Abrahamic religions align with history or not, they definitely do not align with logic. 🤣🤣. Why? The monotheistic core of Abrahamic religions simply says that there is just a transcendent god who is totally disconnected from the energy realm but still can “create” the universe and its laws of nature out of thin air and also override them whenever wanted by just using a magic wand😊. Monotheism cannot be validated. It also means, monotheism wrongly assumes that after 'creation", the universe and everything in it can exist or function on its own without the immanence and omnipresence of their "transcendent" god as the omnipresent soul and its consciousness ( an attribute just like heat is an attribute of fire and the sun) which is needed to “mediate” all dualities of nature to happen eg manifestation/concealment duality cycle of the universe (not creation or destruction), birth/decay (including human reincarnation cycle), energy/matter, summer/winter etc. In other words, none of the Abrahamic religions were built around any well validated metaphysics..It led to needless prophets/middlemen/son of god/messiah, angels, blind belief in a book. nonexistent heaven/hell, fantasy stories (propagated as history), one life, proselytization, half-baked responsibilities and discrimination/violence against non-believers and nature (including meat consumption) due to lack of understanding of dharma (one should abide by natural law by following ethics, duty, virtue to sustain the balance and harmony of the world), law of Karma or cause and effect (created by memories, likes/dislikes and violation of dharma or the natural law), reincarnation (birth/death duality cycle of humans triggered by karma or cause and effect) and Moksha (microcosm to macrocosm) 2. Polytheism believes in the existence of many independent and distinct gods, completely unrelated to each other. The polytheists lacked any understanding of the inherent unity of every manifest thing, including their multiple gods. So, polytheism also cannot be validated by logic or experiment or embodied experience.

[@indianmilitary]

But Hindu/Vedic tradition based on the well validated Vedic metaphysics Sankhya says that there is nothing other than the conscious, immortal, immutable, self-luminous, immanent (athma), transcendent and omnipresent Brahman and its intelligent energy. Hindus use cosmic allegories Shiva or Vishnu or Brahma for the immanent and omnipresent conscious self and Shakthi or Lakshmi or Saraswathi for intelligent energy. Husband and wife cannot exist without each other. So, they always exist together for the perpetual duality cycles of nature to happen eg Birth/decay (including human reincarnation cycle), manifestation and concealment duality cycle of the universe (not creation or destruction of the universe), wave/particle, energy/matter, wake/sleep, man/woman, summer/winter, freezing/melting .etc This is Sankhya vedic metaphysics (around which the whole hindu tradition was built including temple tradition, yoga and tantra) which can be validated by logic, double slit quantum experiment and embodied experience (focus and meditation)

[@indianmilitary]

Rejection of monotheism/polytheism and acknowledgement of well validated Hindu/Vedic metaphysics by eminent quantum/astro physicists ERWIN SCHRODINGER (ONE OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS OF QUANTUM MECHANICS) Schrodinger's biographer Moore wrote -- “His system - or that of the Hindu Upanishads/Vedas - is delightful and consistent: the self and the world are one and they are all. He rejected traditional western religious beliefs (Jewish, Christian, and Islamic) not on the basis of any reasoned argument, nor even with an expression of emotional antipathy, for he loved to use religious expressions and metaphors, but simply by saying that they are naïve--and will NOT understand Quantum theory and consciousness. (CONSCIOUS, IMMANENT AND OMNIPRESENT SELF = SHIVA and THOUGHTS/BODY/W0RLD/UNIVERSE = SHAKTHI OR THE INTELLIGENT ENERGY) Erwin Schrodinger wrote: “Vedanta teaches that consciousness is singular, all happenings are played out in one universal consciousness and there is no multiplicity of selves.” Albert Einstein ``Whenever I read Bhagavad Gita, everything else seems superfluous. I've made Vedas as the guide for the formation of my theories and scientific investigation" Werner Heisenberg _ (One of the pioneers in the field of quantum mechanics) - "Quantum ideas which seemed so crazy made sense only after reading hindu/vedic metaphysics" Carl Sagan (Astrophysicist) “The Hindu/Vedic tradition is the world’s greatest tradition dedicated to the idea that the cosmos itself undergoes an immense number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only tradition in which the time scales correspond no doubt to those of modern scientific cosmology. The cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma - 8.64 billion years long. It is longer than the age of the Earth, the Sun, and half the time since the Big Bang.” It also means, 'Big Bang" does not mean "one time" 'creation" of the universe (out of thin air) around 4004 BCE at 8.30 am in the morning by some transcendent god with a magic wand. 😀😀

[@roleplayinglife7548]

Just a correction, most hindu gods are cosmic allegories, Shiva is allegory of black energy/black matter,& is worshipped as the linga, black meteriote stone that brought dna building molecules to the planet. Ganesh is allegorical incharge of first astral layer, Brahma is allegorical morphogenetic field of consciousness. There cannot be avatars of Shiva, the only one who is a divine reincarnation is Avatar of Vishu. Brahman-Atman saying that Atma, the attribute less, colourless, which was never born and which will never cease to exist, never affected by the actions of ego self is a drop of consciousness out of the ocean of Brahman, in that sense Aham Brahmasmi, I am Brahman and there is no one else than Brahman. I might be wrong, it is always better to consult a Brahmin or sanyasi who has studied Vedas deeply before coming to assumptions.

[@christopherwallis751]

Tradition asserts that there certainly were avatars of Shiva, such as Lakulīsha and Shrīkantha.

[@tanph4050]

Bhddha lived 500 BC and Mahabharat was written by Ved Vyasa before that. So Mahabharata has to be written before 500BC. The date u are giving of 100BC is quite off. Not sure how U arrived at that.. Anyways, dates don't matter.

[@christopherwallis751]

the date I quoted reflects the scholarly consensus on the matter among philologists and Indologists.

[@indianmilitary]

Yes. Mahabharatha was written by Veda Vyasa in 5000 BCE. Vedas were also compiled around the same time by Veda Vyasa. (before that they were oral tradition). Around 4000 BCE, Kaliyuga started. Krishna came before that

[@tookie36]

The solo cannon is def a strength for Christians. It allows simplicity. The gnostics were never going to succeed bc you need the OT bc of all the times the NT refers back to the OT profecies being fufilled. Other Christians used analogies instead of just erasing the OT. And of course the other problems are cleared up via the Christian oral tradition. The tradition is flush with problems but their theology has answers for all the questions bc of their singleness they are able to defend their positions much more clearly. The dangers def come in the strictness of the tradition

[@josepjaskowiak6227]

Jesus Christ is the ideal we should aspire to, personifying perfect selflessness (ego death).. the story is multi faceted. Everything had to happen exactly as it did so we may enjoy life in the here and now, experiencing God's grace, which was a tremendous sacrifice (crucifixion).

[@AlexandarShmex]

Nicely written.

[@robertjsmith]

You don’t need religion to experience (ego death)

[@ethandarner]

Im agnostic but have been on an anxiety ridden mental existential spiral. I decided to look at various religions, maybe try to make an educated decision on which one fits my worldview the best, which seems to be the most rational and moral. I just grabbed a copy of the holy bible, but the Christian faith seems to preclude all who have doubts about Jesus from entering the kingdom of heaven! There would be many ways that a normal rational person who otherwise doesn't commit much sin can end up having doubts about believing in Jesus as the savior, but you're meant to accept that they'll not get into heaven while one who has done many terrible actions but accepts Jesus as savior will enter heaven! I do think Jesus taught many good things but this idea is so problematic to me! Can anyone recommend any holy texts or the equivalent, for Any dharmic religions? Be it hinduism or buddhism? I'm just trying to read more of these, I'll look at other abrahamic texts too. I just need something to anchor myself! Thank you, and whatever you believe I wish peace for you.

[@christopherwallis751]

You might start with the Bhagavad-Gītã as rendered by Stephen Mitchell. Then the crest jewel of discrimination by Christopher isherwood.

[@christopherwallis751]

also please consider becoming a subscriber to our Tantra Illuminated platform and asking your questions there to get fuller / more detailed answers! :)

[@clovek456]

Many Times Jesus spoke spiritually and as a consequence people didnt understand him..when He spoke about death..He didnt mean the death of the body as we are used to think..He knew that there were some true believers around him and he gives them hope by saying that they will see him the very same day in all his glory...but again we must understand that in spiritual sense a day is act of creation..not merely a" sequence of time" as we are used to think in a fleshly thinking...we can also notice this in genesis when God spoke about days of creation..in jewish sense and also christian sense the Word "today" means "God's presence "...something like "Now"...knowing this in the heart the scriptures give us whole new perspective and maybe then we will be able to realise that the scriptures are one big revelation given to us as a gift given to us from the Almighty...its a shame when people misinterpret Jesus's words because they dont go deep enough..

[@christopherwallis751]

you're just telling us what you want to be true about Jesus. in fact no 'misinterpretation' is possible because we simply can't know for sure what Jesus actually said, and even if we could, we certainly can't know what he meant. So when you say "he didn't mean X . . . he meant Y" you are only expressing your projection onto this idealized figure about whom, in reality, you know virtually nothing -- just like the rest of us.

[@clovek456]

@@christopherwallis751 it seems to me that what you are saying is very relativistic...of course we dont see into anybodys head...but knowing the person and trusting him opens the possibility of understanding the words..the same goes for the guru who you love..why would I want to see something not spiritual or false in him?...Jesus spoke with wisdom and anybody who has at least a spark of this wisdom can realise this..He did not speak casually ..the fact is that if you enter his words you enter himself at the same time and at that moment you KNOW that what he says is the truth..that way anyone can verify his words and his wisdom that flows out of him.. I believe the same principal goes for any other guru that you decide to follow..without trust one cannot enter spirituality..do you agree?

[@indianmilitary]

@@clovek456 A prophet or son of god is not the same as a Hindu "guru" or 'avatar". If it was just about 'teachings" - you would still have to analyze what they were based on? Teachings of "Jesus" are based on monotheistic assumptions like "god" heaven" and hell which cannot be validated by logic or experiment or embodied experience. But Hindu/Vedic metaphysics Sankhya (around which Hindu temple, yoga and tantra traditions were built) can be validated by logic, double slit quantum experiment or embodied experience. It also means, there is no concept of god or heaven or hell in Hindu/Vedic tradition.

[@clovek456]

@@indianmilitary logic is not enough to enter the kingdom of God..to enter the faith you have to overcome your logic my friend..because your logic has roots in your mortal body a thus can not lead you all the way through...it will keep giving you eartly images and will never lead you out of darkness out of death..Jesus is the Light that overcame darkness..if you put your faith in Him He will lead out from darkness..but your logic is holding you back so that you cannot ascent ..Jesus enterted your darkness in order to give you His light ..if you decide to use faith ABOVE logic ..you can receive His holy spirit and do away with all that filthy logic..God bless you!

[@AlexandarShmex]

@@christopherwallis751 You know it exactly the same way as you know what Abhinavagupta said and wrote - by following what he said/wrote under the guidance of the men who understand and live it. Then you have personal experience along with "material" understanding and qualification. Simple as that, as in every single traditional religious path.

[@mcconlogue1898]

Jesus also said not to believe it if anyone said they knew the time, (of the eschaton); that only the Father knows the time it will come.

[@christopherwallis751]

the exact time, yes. but he also clearly said it would happen while some of his disciples were still alive, i.e. within 40 years.

[@britaom3299]

@@christopherwallis751 The evidence for your claim is overwhelming, actually. It boggles my mind that so few Christians cannot see just how many times Jesus, Paul, James, and Peter ALL claim that an earthly, kingdom ruled by the Son of Man, was about to be inaugurated at any moment. And this is also why the early Church were premillennialists, a position that was the dominant eschatological position in the Church until the time of Augustine, who basically had to explain "the Kingdom" away. Just a sample: Mark 14:62: And Jesus said **[to the High Priest, who died before the Second Temple's destruction in 70 CE] ** ’You will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven’. Rom 13:12: The day is at hand. 1 Cor 7:29: The appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none. (Funny thing to say if you didn’t think the end was imminent) 1 Cor 7:31: For the form of this world is passing away. Phil 4:5: The Lord is coming soon. 1 Thessalonians 4:15: We who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord. Hebrews 1:2: In these last days he has spoken to us by a Son. Hebrews 10:37: For yet a little while, and the coming one shall come and shall not tarry. James 5:8: The coming of the Lord is at hand. 1 Peter 1:20: He [Christ] was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times. 1 Peter 4:7: The end of all things is at hand. 1 John 2:18: It is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming. Rev 1:1: The revelation of Jesus Christ (i.e., the end of the world) …to show to his servants what must soon take place. Rev 3:11: [Jesus said] ‘I am coming soon’. Rev 22:6: And the Lord…has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place. Rev 22:20: [Jesus said] ‘Surely I am coming soon’. It is puzzling to understand why Christianity survived the failure of this prediction. It is not ambiguous. This would be like a rich uncle who promises to give you $10,000 ‘very soon.’ Ten years pass and he still hasn’t given anything to you, but he still says he will do it very soon. Would you still believe that it will happen any day? No, you would realize that it is a false promise. For some reason, Christians cannot comprehend that they have been scammed. Jesus is not coming back, not tomorrow, not next year, not ever. But they still think it will happen any day.

[@jamesm5192]

Hard to get past the 4th minute when you accuse Christians of living out of coherence with their faith because people identified with every tradition do this in significant amounts. Not only that but all of these traditions have very prominent explanations of why people from every tradition, including their own, are subject to this reality.

[@christopherwallis751]

This is very far from the most important video I ever made, please try another one.

[@adsjv1]

Having studied Jewish history, Jewish messianism Jewish sectarianism I think your argument is correct but for the wrong reasons. The right reasons could be a huge novel. Lumping “Abrahamic” religions together is problematic because they are not monolithic entities. Indeed Judaism was never a monolithic entity which is why Christianities early origins are also fairly non-uniform. In Judaism there is a joke ask three Rabbi’s the same question and get four or more answers. I don’t know if you ever got a chance to look at the Talmud (it’s a big multi-volume work with two similar but not the same versions) and in it there is a discussion about canonization of the Hebrew Bible (not everyone agreed about what should be included. There are also differences of opinion about if there is an oral Torah and if so what it is (see the Karaites, modern reform, Mishna). Interestingly there is also a really fun story about canonizing the jewish calendar but I digress). The Christian Bible has different books than what are included in the Jewish bible. The Jewish religion also has Midrash which can be Exegesis and Isogesis respectively. It is somewhat a product of modernity that Judaism is now becoming more uniform and monolithic which arguably was not the case as much prior to the printing press. Anyway I think Judaism, Islam, and christianity do have value and do have flaws. It is not the religion I am able to practice anymore for a lot of reasons, scripture being the least amongst them. Anyway, thanks for allowing me the opportunity to pontificate on your forum.

[@johnstewart7025]

The eskaton was the destruction of the temple by the Romans.

[@christopherwallis751]

That idea is based on the assumption that Yeshua knew the future... Quite an assumption.

[@splashenful]

@5:56 Actually, there are 4 Abrahamic religions, just as there are 4 Dharmic religions.

[@christopherwallis751]

are you thinking of the Bahai faith?

[@christopherwallis751]

there are actually six dharmic religions . . . or there were.

[@splashenful]

@@christopherwallis751 What were the other 2? Some people will tell you that there were more than just 4 Abrahamic religions too, actually.

[@splashenful]

@@christopherwallis751 Yes.

[@mcconlogue1898]

Jesus may well have been referring to an inner experience, as he usually referred to the coming "kingdom of heaven" as a spiritual rebirth. Regardless, I feel you may have an axe to grind with Christianity. Did something happen in your youth to turn you against it? One must be careful. As Thich Naht Hanh said, you should not reject the religious formation of your youth lest your attempt to become Buddhist, (or Hindu), is a form of rebellion.

[@christopherwallis751]

No, I just never resonated with Christianity, and found many (not all) of its versions odious & misguided tools of oppression.

[@DrNancyLivingCoCreatively]

Not a fan Abrahamic religions. I appreciate gnosis before the bible. I like what you're move to and I'm not sure dharmic are less violent. I like your mentioning non-canonical. After years in Buddhism which I found patriarchal of late I am practicing Advanta and that's simply for mind development. Tantra I find wonderful and I have at 72 little interest in following another "religion"...I feel Christianity is responsible for the misogyny that plagues the world. I am interested in mythology especially of the Divine Feminine. Yikes. I'll pass on the Escaton. I will pass on any Bible by men even as I love individuals. There are plenty Christians who welcome end times. I see Jesus as a mystic who showed we could do the same. Where did he go in the so called missing years? I suspect he studied w many shamanically many places and he had a human life w Mary Magdalene. All pre biblical. I am not a religionist and I am faithful to the heart. Must go and I feel I personally agree w your words yet even in dharmic religions we have patriarchy and misogyny. Must go. Many thanks. 🙏🏽🌹

[@christopherwallis751]

there are no 'missing years', since the story about his boyhood was a later fabrication, scholars agree.

[@DrNancyLivingCoCreatively]

@@christopherwallis751 I respect you greatly. Many thanks. For now I hold my views and excize the lost years. I dislike the Bible immensly. Wish I could explicate better. ❤️🌹🙏🏽

[@indianmilitary]

@@DrNancyLivingCoCreatively Jesus did not exist. Jesus was a figment of imagination of Helena- the jewish mother of King constantine.. If you still like to believe he existed, at least try to validate the nicene creed claims of Christianity like ``Virgin birth ``'' son of god". if you don't validate, then you are just blindly believing that he existed based on fantasy stories propagated as history.. Magdalene existed but so called Jesus did not. She was obviously the wife of a person called Damsa (a sidekick of APOLLONIUS OF TYANA). Apollonius of Tyana (an enlightened pagan sage) was suppressed but his sidekick Damsa was propagated as the enlightened one and he was re-named as so called 'Jesus". This is nothing but identity theft.

[@oriel9347]

Yes, thankyou !

[@clovek456]

And also why is there so little prophecying and revelations and miracles in "other religions" isnt it also a flaw?..maybe we should start reading all religions without being biased...only then they can become a living fountains for us...whatever one religion is missing the other can complement ...isnt it great? :)

[@christopherwallis751]

there's plenty of revelations and miracles in dharmic traditions.

[@matthewbazeley2984]

It would be great if religious ideas aligned and you could "fill the gaps" of one with concepts from another. Unfortunately the teachings oppose each other in critical ways. To accept one as truth requires rejecting the others. Its unavoidable

[@clovek456]

@@matthewbazeley2984 if you relate this to people than you have just planted a seed for war and we know that there ARE people involved in this....the rule is to see the common points first and only then start to discus the differences... that is the True joga I believe..

[@matthewbazeley2984]

@@clovek456 discussing the similarities first doesn't change the fact they are ultimately incompatible and your proposal is impossible. Look at the religious teachings of the Abrahamic faiths and with a little humility you might be able to understand that.

[@clovek456]

@@matthewbazeley2984 yes but I still maintain that There has to be some common ground to built on...its our duty to find it dont you think?

[@alexsykakis7543]

Dear Christopher, thank you for all your wonderful videos, however, even you are very proficient in Dharmic traditions you are presenting Christianity as very superficial and taking in to consideration of the ancient fathers of the church and each traditions. I feel a lot of things are out of content. I think before you go and make assumptions christianity you should read on the different traditions of the church. Especially the Orthodox church. May I suggest the UNIVERSAL CHRIST by Richard Rohr. I love your videos really but regardless I do not think you have been fair on this video

[@christopherwallis751]

I'm not claiming to represent all versions of Christianity here. Nor do I think I possibly could.

[@christopherwallis751]

also, there were no "assumptions". tbh, you're exhibiting the emotional attachment I mentioned in the video. I don't at all assume that every instantiation of Xnity centers the problematic theology that mainstream Xnity historically has.

[@AlexandarShmex]

Richard Rohr is a great man. So is Robin Amis. Your comment is great, and Christopher's 2nd reply is the proof of his disdain towards Christianity. And he's talking about emotional attachment...

[@magnuscritikaleak5045]

Taoism does have a Holy book, but we don't recite it Ritually as infallible.

[@mishimayukio8644]

Thought provoking. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most hindus believe their texts actually historically happened? Even fantastic epics like the Mahabharata... Buddhists get really upset when you tell them that the historical Buddha could have never declared the mahayana sutras, or the sarma tantras, etc. I'm sure you're aware of this, but somehow you just make a straw-man out of Hinduism as not reliant on ALL the texts and roll with it :) Perhaps, "scholar practitioners" and their disciples are simply a bit more informed and nuanced?

[@christopherwallis751]

this kind of historical literalism is a new thing in South Asia, a feature of modernity. It wasn't even a consideration in premodern SA.

[@4kassis]

a usual attempt at reconciling the wrathful God of the old testament with the teachings of Jesus is to say that the new testament supersedes the old. Sort of new and improved version of the word of God.

[@scottgrohs5940]

If you’re atheist, then all religions have equal validity.

[@christopherwallis751]

Atheist Buddhists would disagree.

[@AlexandarShmex]

@@christopherwallis751 Buddhists are not atheists. In depth, Buddha is not even an agnostic, just a non-discusser of God, if that's understandable. As for "Buddhists" they are whatever.

[@splashenful]

@@christopherwallis751 So would Atheist Jews.

[@CrawlingAxle]

This argument is like saying that my Honda has an Economy mode that reduces fuel consumption. But sometimes it fails to activate, so my Honda automatically switches to normal, non-Economy mode. My diesel truck is much better: It has no Economy mode, so it never fails. Abrahamic religions have an extra reason to believe in them: They are based on historic evidence and a narrative of revelation. You should believe in Jesus because you believe in the stories in the Gospels. You should believe in Judaism because of the story of revelation at Mt Sinai and Exodus. You should believe in Islam because you believe that Allah revealed Koran to Mohammed. You are saying that if you don't believe in these historical events, there is no reason to believe in the entire religion. Dharmic religions don't have that problem. First of all, they do. Buddhism is based on the stories of Buddha achieving enlightenment. A Buddhist doesn't believe in Brahman because Buddha said so, and Buddha had spiritual powers. There are also revelations stories in, say, Kashmir Shaivism: Vasugupta went to read Shiva sutras on a rock. There is an argument that Upanishads were revealed to or realized by early siddhis. So, arguably, if you don't believe in the above, you don't have a good reason to believe in Dharmic traditions either. Most Dharmic followers I know will tell you: No, that's not true. You believe in Buddhism because "it works". You can meditate and live a life of renunciation (or seeing nature as it is, or contemplating koans, or pointing at the reality, whatever) and see how that will make you achieve what Buddha said it would. (I mean, not really, because there are stories of followers of Buddha believing they achieved enlightenment and then realizing at the moment of their death they didn't and going to hell for thousands of years, but whatever.) You can do yoga or tantric rituals, and that will fill you with realization of Brahman, Shiva, Shakti, etc. So it doesn't matter whether you actually believe that person X received revelation from god Y at point Z. You can just try it and see for yourself. But Christians will say the same. Try living your life with Jesus, and you will see it transformed. Try living your life as a Muslim, and you will feel the presence of Allah. Try keeping Shabbos for a year, and you will start feeling Hashem in your life. It doesn't matter if God actually revealed Himself at Mt. Sinai or whether rabbis wrote it all down in Babylonian exile. What matters is whether, living according to Commandments, transforms your spiritual life. And most people who try it seriously will say that it does - and that's the real reason they stay Christians/Muslims/Jews. The historical argument is just a bonus.

[@AlexandarShmex]

Beautifully written.

[@roldanogiuntoli4927]

I respect your willingness to come forward with such a confrontational view towards the Abrahamic religions that together account for nearly half of the world´s population among their followers. Is it founded in the right approach of the core teachings of those religions? It is not so much a matter of getting offended. Rather it is the scope of your statement. A statement from a supposedly enlightened influencer that needs to be checked. “Fatal flaw(s) in Abrahamic Religions” You claim that such a statement comes from a scholarly view you acquired when profoundly studying the Christian Bible despite never being a Christian yourself. You point to one of these flaws when you mention that in the Jewish Tanakh or in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible there is a fallen god that orders the slaughter of the enemies. I wonder why you have to consider the Abrahamic Religions Scriptures literally and historically when you do not do that with regards to the Mahabharata or specifically to the Bhagavad Gita where Lord Krishna orders the perfect warrior Arjuna to slaughter his relatives in the enemy lines in what he describes at length as the good battle. The metaphor may be clearer to you there, but this does not mean it is not likewise present elsewhere. In this respect you could have also referred to Matthew 10, 34-36, or Luke 12, 51-53 - passages that can be interpreted under the same light. As to the misleading interpretation of the “atonement” that you also mention as a fatal flaw, I wonder whether the thought of the late Stanford´s philosopher of social science and anthropology René Girard is familiar to you. Among many other different and equally meritorious scholarly views on the subject, Girard´s view on the mimetic theory is very challenging and enlightening. In few words his original view about the scapegoat mechanism as is exposed within the Biblical texts categorically reorient the position of the Divinity to be on the side of the victim as opposed to that of the persecuting community. All other myths, such as Romulus and Remus, for example, are written and constructed from the point of view of the community whose legitimacy depends on the guilt of the victim in order to be brought together as a unified community. By exposing the relative innocence of the victim within the scapegoat mechanism it is no longer able to function as a vehicle for generating unity and peace. Roger Scruton notes, Girard's account has a divine Jesus: "that Jesus was the first scapegoat to understand the need for his death and to forgive those who inflicted it … Girard argues, Jesus gave the best evidence … of his divine nature." Worth studying I believe. Among Girard´s nearly thirty books I would recommend a few: • Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World • Violence and the Sacred • The Scapegoat I'm sorry not being able to comment from the islamic point of vew for unfortunately not being familar enough with it. You pointed as well to the incoherence those religions’ followers show to their religions as another of those “fatal flaws”. But this is only the flawed human nature of the followers of each and every religion of the world since time immemorial, isn’t it?

[@christopherwallis751]

Many of the Bible's adherents take it literally and as a historical document. I don't.

[@AlexandarShmex]

Thank you so much for the great comment Mr. Roldano, I haven't heard about Rene Girard's work before. I think that Christopher simply wanted to get as many clicks for his video, which would be forgivable to an ordinary man, but not to an "supposedly enlightened influencer" as you've put it. I'd like to know which Christian Theology books have helped you understand our Lord the best? I'm asking you this because you seem like a very well educated man. Thank you.

[@Jagombe1]

I am also NOT a Christian, but I think you have either misunderstood or misinterpreted (or mis transliterated) the verse where Jesus said, "some of you standing here shall not taste of death until they see the Son of man coming in his glory" - Matthew 16:28; Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27 (all King James version). The 'Son of Man' is the self (ego) as identified by the mind! What Jesus meant, was that there were some people standing where he was talking (teaching) who would not die before they knew their real Self; stated metaphorically elsewhere as, "when you have lifted up 'the Son of Man' then shall you know that I am he" - John 8:28. This verse (John 8:28) clearly directed his hearers to aim at 'lifting up the Son of Man'; transcending the ego mind, to realize the divinity within each person. Clearly, he was NOT talking about the end of the world, but the end of the consciousness of some people who were present then. Bible theologians and Paul (who wanted to elevate the pagan tradition of the Jews of sacrificing animals in the temple), who did not understand the teaching, have misled many, probably including you. The many evangelicals, preachers and the pastors have made it worse, and not helped!

[@britaom3299]

Sorry, but you are claiming to know "what Jesus REALLY MEANT" and that Christopher "has it all wrong" when it comes to Jesus (or at least some facets of what he supposedly taught). I don't see how ANYONE can make this claim! The entire history of Christianity refutes the idea that anyone can know "what Jesus REALLY MEANT." We simply do not know. The Gospels themselves are filled with contradictions. In the earliest Gospel, Mark, we see the expectation of a real, worldly Kingdom being established ON EARTH, which is precisely what "kingdom" meant during Jesus's time (Second Temple Judaism). However, when a few decades pass and no earthly kingdom ever gets established, then the Gospel of Luke has this "kingdom" as being something internal to the self. And in Paul's letters, which were written before the Gospels, we also see the expectation of an earthly kingdom which was about to happen any day, which Paul claims that he would live to see (oops) and that those recently deceased would be resurrected and float up in the air to meet Mr. Jesus, who was about to descend back to earth to establish that Earthly Kingdom.

[@RiverdaveOwen]

Nice try Hareesh, but I think you bit off more than you could chew with this one ...

[@christopherwallis751]

LOL

[@RiverdaveOwen]

@@christopherwallis751 Your claim that all New Testament scholars "agree" on the textual history of the New Testament is nothing short of absurd. The range of views on this issue are as wide as the east is from the west with no position even close to being a consensus ...

[@christopherwallis751]

@@RiverdaveOwen I didn't say that all NT scholars agree on "the textual history of the NT" -- I said that there is broad consensus on certain issues, for example that Mark is the first gospel written, and that it was written around 70 CE, and that its author never met Jesus in person. Other things I say in this video are also part of the scholarly consensus -- at least as I knew it 20 years ago when I did NT studies. Would you like to provide a more focused critique on what you think I got wrong, based on published peer-reviewed scholarship?

[@RiverdaveOwen]

@@christopherwallis751 I'm sorry, but I don't have the time or interest to respond in detail. But I'll briefly note that the Semitic (Aramaic and Hebrew) sources of the four gospels present a very different and more authentic path than the Greek traditions to understanding Jesus of Nazareth.

[@christopherwallis751]

@@RiverdaveOwen ah, I see. we're in the realm of imagination here. for anyone reading this convo who's interested in facts, there are no surviving Aramaic or Hebrew originals of the canonical gospels, if indeed they ever existed.

[@Martin-jc6or]

Would it be that the older the religion, the more its own efficacy of practice keeps it going. Whereas a younger religion stills feels historically in touch with its avatar ? The guru and initiate relationship always seems venerated in dharmic religions - Jesus himself using it - yet it seems absent or only locally present in Abrahamic. As revelatory as always Mr Wallis. Thank you.

[@sarahtaub]

Judaism is 3500 to 4000 years old, much older than some of the religions that are now held under the umbrella of Hinduism, and at least 1000 years older than Buddhism. So that implied generalization of Abrahamic = younger and dharmic = older doesn't hold.

[@OrichalcumHammer]

@@sarahtaub Moses is creation of Jews when they want to create their new monotheistic identity surrounding Yahweh and to get rid of all the Canaanite polytheistic tribes like wife of Yahweh, Asherah. They demonize and perpetuated a victimhood persecution complex where Moses using the garb of god asks his tribe men to go and massacre other tribes and destroy Asherah's stone/pillars. He keeps on reminding jews that they were enslaved by Egyptian and he rescued them. When enslaving was a general practice of those region and yet Moses perpetuates enslaving other tribes as religious obligation as it is god's commandment. BTW the Egyptian Pharaoh Rameses II which was supposedly killed by Moses's god wouldnt or didnt care enough about Moses to write such a major event that transpired. But you know what is a Historical Fact, Rameses II almost lost his kingdom and his life to Hittites in the Battle of Kadesh. Do you really think bodyguards and ministers around Pharaohs who care about their bloodline and had the status of god-king would tolerate Aaron and Moses to talk back. Jews had to invent Moses background such that to gain legitimacy as an equal to Pharaoh, Moses as small infant get to enter Egyptian royalty through backdoor and gains status as equal to prince. Remember Pharaohs cared about bloodlines. This is similar story as Joseph where some Pharaoh of Jewish invention hands over his kingdom to a slave because he could interpret his dream. Bible is a collection of Jewish camp fire stories hating and being jealous of Egyptians and stories borrowed from Babylon and Persians. Story of Cain and Abel and offering of Food and Animal, is jews identifying themselves as different from Egyptian(or possibly Asherah) who were mainly agriculture based while Judah being more Shepherds, hence you will see Yahweh is pleased with Animal offering and not with produce of the land.

[@AlexandarShmex]

@@sarahtaub Judaism and Christianity are not the same path Sarah. That's like saying that Buddhism is Vedic, while the Buddha is the Vedic Protestant. You're probably an Evangelical Christian, which unfortunately isn't real Christianity. Judaism is a tribal, closed off, blood-determined religion, which also had good aspects such as genuine reverence for the Lord and many others. When Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the Old Testament and tried to separate the wheat from the chaff, Jews that wanted to cling to the hateful, vengeful and power-hungry aspects of Judaism murdered His body. Since then, two branches appear - Christianity, with the Jews and non-Jews who accepted the Lord's message of universal love, forgiveness and striving for the only reality that is God and Jews who still to this day wait for a messiah (anti-Christ) who will be a great warrior, avenge them and make them the rulers of all non-Jews, which is called Talmudism.

[@Jay-pw7pg]

Question for Chris - The whole karmic law thing has me scratching my head. Why would God create this situation, where we have no memory of our past lives, no choice in our genes, parents, capacities, traumas, etc in this life’s childhood - which are said to be fundamental formative years in our development, and no control over the culture or moment in history, and yet we are basically responsible for our karma, ignorance, draw to spirituality, mental health, capacity to awaken, etc?For example, if we happen to have a profound awakening, that is God’s Grace. But if we lose it, that is our negative karma? Don’t you find this whole structure a bit convenient? Why isn’t all of it God? Why don’t Hindu scriptures put it all on God/Grace? Why don’t they say our past lives karma is God, our genetics and upbringing are God, our waking up and losing it (apparently) is God? Our being drawn to various philosophies, teachers, practices, understandings is God? Our wars, suicides, child deaths, plagues etc are God? Why is it usually painted as God is Light, and “we” are the dark? It feels like a massive stretch, or leap of something, to just buy into the notion that we have lived countless lives, and we are responsible for where we are at now. That we “chose”, asked for, needed, all of that to get to where we are at now, so that we can hopefully learn something and be further along for next time. Don’t you think it makes more sense that we’re actually the product of natural evolution - and we just have this life, at least consciously - with whatever birth lottery we get - and then we can try to do something with this brief life, in the direction of being more awake, present, aligned, clear, loving, meaningful, helpful? Couldn’t this whole ancient spiritual narrative be explained by natural evolution? That there is a continuity, but not an I that carries on, but rather DNA that carries on - natural software, with ingredients like trauma, good looks, resilience, intelligence, sensitivity, etc? More like natural law, impersonal natural Intelligence, that is for ex evolving the human brain through procreation - and this body, personality, capacity, etc is not important but we are mainly vehicles for the evolution of the brain? And couldn’t that evolution, and the power behind that evolution, be what ancient traditions were attempting to point to, with the language, understanding, myths, framework of their time?

[@christopherwallis751]

open.spotify.com/episode/5WyJQL2WQQieGIfQVVPccJ

[@Jay-pw7pg]

@@christopherwallis751 Very interesting. Thx 🙏🏻

[@christopherwallis751]

@@Jay-pw7pg did you see how that answered some of your questions?

[@Jay-pw7pg]

@@christopherwallis751 I do understand Ma’s perspective and point, even if I’m not deeply established in Self/Presence. But intuitively, it cannot be that there are different Gods. Allah, Yahweh, Siva, Vishnu, Buddhas, etc. It must be that really there is only this - let’s call it Natural Law to put it more in neutral scientific territory. This one natural force animating this body, mind, world etc. That’s it. Yes, it may convincingly appear to have parts - Shiva for the impersonal substratum power. Shakti for how it manifests. Yes, it may appear there are actual entities apart from this life - Buddhas and Siddhas and Maras. But not really. Not when you are simply resting in/as Thisness. As Natural Awareness. And Shiva could be called Bob. And Shakti could be called Nancy. And still it is only for the sake of helping this illusory mind to understand things better. And mantras absolutely do have power, but also aren’t necessary. And I suspect it’s less about the string of letters and sounds, and more about what the practice develops over time. And being vegetarian may or may not really matter. My point here is - I still suspect that when you strip this stuff down to its bare bones, free of all culture, language, lingo, superstitions, cosmologies, etc - it’s really just the immense and complex power of Nature. The same natural intelligence that carved out Niagara Falls, created this brain body mechanism. And the only difference is that here there is the capacity to know/remember the Knowingness. To be the Intelligence. I suspect that Yoga is basically a hack. How to establish that profound awareness, how to deepen/strengthen it, how to have fun with it, how to help others do the same. Only they were “wrong” about why, what, how. It’s all just names, concepts, images, rituals, myths, miracles, customs etc imposed on this simple impersonal natural Force. Not Hindu. Not Buddhist. Not Tantra. Just aligning with, merging with, this natural, impersonal Power. I think this is why we see with the truly Liberated beings - like Ramana for ex - the impulse there was silence, transmission, supporting seekers to do what they were inclined to do. I think bc there was such deep immersion in this Natural State, just let Arunachala (ie. Natural Power) to guide everything. I think in that state, your whole "Tradition", framework, concepts are totally blown out of the water, even if you still use them as a guide due to conditioning. But mostly you are absorbed in impersonal, mysterious, Source. And I think what I'm saying could also have practical implications though. If it's true that this whole thing has a simple scientific, natural, explanation - and is simply an impersonal natural program - than why not drop all of the clinging to traditions, scriptures, terminology, concepts, etc - and simply try to tune in to Thisness? Surrender to and align with this background/underlying natural Force. Without any other supports, crutches, concepts - and see what happens. Really put it to the test - not even the concept of God or some evolutionary direction. Simply meditation and constant attuning to this impersonal, natural, Power. And see what happens. Rather than starting with an elaborate framework, and having to detach from it all when the bottom drops out. Why not start from this profoundly simple premise, without any assurances, supports, initiations, commitments, conditioning, expectations - and go as deeply into that as one would any of these yogic/mystical traditions? I mean most of it derives from 2500-1000 years ago. And it's just so mired in the assumptions and dressings of those times. Even the Buddha, who was said to be a reformer, and who was said to be extremely reluctant to formulate any teachings after the bottom fell out, ended up birthing a massively complex and confusing set of traditions, which to me are basically the same as those which he claimed to be thoroughly upending and correcting. But I suspect that they could not escape the times they were in - and did not have the incredible knowledge and cultural evolution that we see today. No matter how Awake, how dialed in - I think they were still like early pioneers who could not grasp what was to come, and could not step out of their times. And I suspect that through time, science, and the evolution of the human race, we will look back on those ancients with gratitude, but also a chuckle. Because we will see it as quite innocent and in some ways primitive. But we shall see....

[@indianmilitary]

@@Jay-pw7pg Karma or cause and effect and reincarnation (transmigration of subtle bodies to another body) are laws of nature. One can logically validate it by reading and understanding correct Vedic metaphysics (Sankhya) which can be validated by logic, double slit quantum experiment and embodied experience. Karma can also be cross verified by visiting a good astrologer who can reveal past, present and future including mode and date of death (preprogrammed by law of karma) by just looking at date and time of birth or birth chart. Only humans are bound by law of karma because of free will, vivid sense of imagination, memory and a well developed 'ahamkara" - a subtle body which gives the "false" sense of "I" to people who wrongly identify with their thoughts and body. It leads to different likes/dislikes, regrets, violation of natural law or dharma, memories which can trigger Karma or cause and effect and reincarnation.

[@paperclips1306]

With out a guru a hindu is just a loose cannon. Just a namesake. 95% hindus are namesakes. At least People don't know what sampradaya their ancestors followed. Faith must be personal and esoteric activity upto an extent. But nowadays people are gathering up at neo hindu organisations.

[@splashenful]

@18:46 Christ was Alluding to the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

[@christopherwallis751]

nonsense. you can't know that. no one can.

[@splashenful]

@@christopherwallis751 Yes I can. I took a Bible study course. Christ Warned about the destruction of Jerusalem plenty of times during His Public Ministry, if you read the Gospels carefully. The most obvious example is in Mark 13, but, there were a few other places too, & one of them in St. Matthew chapter 16, verse 28.

[@christopherwallis751]

@@splashenful he was a human being. He didn't know the future. I've read the gospels carefully. Mark obviously wanted to make it appear that Jesus knew what would happen in 70 CE.

[@splashenful]

@@christopherwallis751 Yes, Our Lord Was Human. But, He Was - & Is - God. He Has a Dual Nature. And He Prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem many times throughout the Gospels.

[@christopherwallis751]

@@splashenful sorry, not interested in religious belief, or any proposition that's neither verifiable or falsifiable.

[@paperclips1306]

Vedic religion cannot be practiced today. Its a costly affair to do yajña these days.

[@Shalien333]

Jesus spoke Aramaic not Greek. There are lots of words that have no appropriate counterparts from one language into another. For example Virgin can simply mean a young woman. So much for the Virgin Birth theory!!!???

[@christopherwallis751]

of course he spoke Aramaic not Greek. but the records we have are all in Greek, so that's what we have to work with when it comes to parsing what Yeshua (Jesus) said. in this regard, the Eschaton is not a natively Hellenistic concept, and scholars agree that he preached about the Eschaton, whatever word he used for it.

[@mdinnen5930]

@Sheldon Sugar Yeah, I think he said that the New Testament was originally written in Greek, not that that was the language Jesus spoke.

[@CipherDiaz]

You are still reading the gospels as historicity to some extent. All you have to do is replace Abraham with Brahma, and then look at the family tree - that's it. Christianity is basically rooted in tantric vaishnavism (a.k.a the "new wine" as opposed to the older, saivism based OT), clothed in greek and pseudo jewish attire. As for the "end of the world", the gospels represents the shift from aries (head in esoteric biology) to Pisces (feet, patala). The greek says "end of the age", not "end of time". The journey of Paul is easier to read, his 7 churches are ofcourse the 7 chakras. The problem is that they refactored everything into singular archetypes. The various expressions of the goddess were isolated in the 3 mary's, ganesh was isolated as john the baptist -- and the various people Jesus meets are representations of the greek versions of the hindu gods (the powers defined inside each chakra). It's basically a mystery religion on-top-of an older mystery religion, that hints to the adept -- taking for granted that the adept lives in a greek religious world where these symbols and hints would be enough to trigger recognition. As Irenaus wrote, which more or less compiled what we know as the new testament: "By these Christ was typified, and acknowledged, and brought into the world; for He was prefigured in Joseph: then from Levi and Judah He was descended according to the flesh, as King and Priest; and He was acknowledged by Simeon in the temple: through Zebulon [Baal] He was believed in among the Gentiles, as says the prophet, the land of Zabulon; Isaiah 9:1 and through Benjamin [that is, Paul] He was glorified, by being preached throughout all the world." -Source: Fragments, section 17. We are now separated by 2000 years, and practically none of the symbols "snaps into place" without hefty study, which most people simply dont have the inclination to do. These mystics operated with a completely different view of reality than mainstream, which is the source of the error. People read it as history, a mystic will read it as a journey through his own body. Christ (which is not the same as Jesus), is ofcourse the psychosomatic seed born of the hiranjagharba, the hrit-padme, the womb of the virgin goddess (Durga mata). It is born by several factors, celibacy, shaktipat ( baptism ) and grace. Once born the seed moves through the chakras - until it sets sail for the pineal gland .. golgatha. It probably sounds very simple when i write this, but this is the result of decades of study, and also having experienced this in my own body. Sadly, 99.9% of christians wont read these texts as I do. I already had a fertile soil of hindu texts when i was given shaktipat (baptism), which allowed me to see the layers beneath the letter so to speak. They dont see it because they have nothing to compare with, plain and simple. That is the downside of only reading one book :)

[@1HiddenSecret]

Love is not an absolute acceptance of what people do. The bible says that the Israelites shall not enter into Canaan until there is the completeness of their sin.... ie: point of no return. Such biblical text is a metaphor of what is to come..... for the world is allowed to go on until the one above shall pass judgement on the earth.... For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 .... This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. 2 Timothy 3:1-4 ..... we are nearing this time..... prepare!

[@christopherwallis751]

the Timothy passage just describes how most people are in any era, so it allows eschatologically-minded people to predict the coming end-times whenever they happen to live.

[@1HiddenSecret]

@@christopherwallis751 There is truth in what you say.... some pagans believe in cycles not beginnings or endings. Perhaps we are nearing the an end of a cycle and we will have go through pain and end up with a new beginning.... the old things have passed away...

[@nezz0r]

If you are a Christian then: Why did the biblical God curse the earth for the sins of Adam and Eve but didn't curse heaven for the sins of Satan?

[@1HiddenSecret]

@@nezz0r Because cursing heaven won't increase survivability of angels.... but cursing the earth does increase the survivability of Humans.... you would die if you were not cursed....

[@nezz0r]

​@@1HiddenSecret What? How do the curses increase the survivability of humans? Cursing us brought forth death: Genesis 3:19 "19By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”" He cursed the animals as well but it seems like he didn't do that in heaven. In Christian belief the perfect heaven had to be the origin of sin because of Satan. So let me ask you again: Why didn't he curse heaven? Why did he chose mercy for heaven without "sacrifices" but couldn't do that for earth and humans? I mean not only did he not curse heaven he even had thrown the ursuper to earth and by that kind of made him our problem.

[@lilygrower1]

Actually Jesus does say that he will resurrect - Mark 9:31

[@christopherwallis751]

Scholars don't accept the veracity of that interpolation, however.

[@thinkfirstt]

The fatal flaw from the perspective of a common householder raised in the US is being conditioned to hold Biblical stories as literal and historical. This literal belief eventually sucks the life and growth out of religious practice and ritual. Thanks for mentioning the mystical "inner" path of the Abrahamic traditions because this is one way to keep connected to your scriptural text and bring in contemplation/meditation.

[@indianmilitary]

If they weren't "literal" or were just 'allegories" still it wouldn't change the fact that all stories of ABRAHAMIC religions were based on monotheistic assumptions like god, heaven and hell which cannot be validated by logic or experiment or embodied experience. it is the reason why Hindu Ithihasas (Ramayana and Mahabhartha) and puranas can be neither called "myth" nor history". They have both real events and allegorical stories which represent laws of nature. Myth means fantasy stories which cannot be validated. The word myth aptly fits fantasy stories propagated by Abrahamic religions which cannot be validated. There is an allegorical story in Mahabharatha which explains space time dilation (copied later by Einstein) . eg King Kakudmi visiting Brahmalokha with his daughter Revathi and staying their for just 20 min. When he returned he could not find any of his family and relatives, the sons and grandsons-and there was NO record of the family tree. An example of Maya of time.

[@AlexandarShmex]

@@indianmilitary Brother, I guarantee you never studied the Bible seriously. What form of validation are you talking about? Physical proof? Is there a physical proof of love? Envy? Yet we still know what it is, our experience of it is the validation for us. Study the Bible as you did the Ramayana and Mahabhartha and Geeta, then you might be able to make some good conclusions. But, since you will approach the Lord's teachings with the desire to prove it wrong, it's in vain. Just stay on your own path, let others live their lives. May the Lord bless you on your journey!

[@prince_sach50]

WAHEGURU🙏🏽🪯🪯🪯🙌🏾🙏🏽🪯🪯💯🦾🦾🦾🦾

[@sagar1098]

There is no religion for god and if you want see God only through meditation you can see and achieve all things

[@indianmilitary]

Except the fact that there is no concept of god in Hindu tradition let alone 'see" it. 😂😂

[@OrichalcumHammer]

@@indianmilitary god comes from German word got/gudan which become Huta/Hotra in Sanskrit. Gudan become Khuda in Persian. Hence muslims stopped using khuda-hafis due to Vedic origins etc. Same as Roman/Greek Dues/Zeus comes from Sankrit Dyaus. The English didn't have another word for a bigger god hence they capitalize God. So Gods exist in Hinduism and God of Upanihad, God of Gods is referred to as Eeshwar or Bhagwan. This is mentioned in Citi-talks youtube channel.

[@clovek456]

I dont quite understand what the speaker was refering to or suggesting. I would like if the speaker showed the good side of other religions also..obviously he didnt find any depth in other religions which is a great pity I think...it makes more sense to me to focus on the common points in all religinons rather that to try to separate them...but of course that we need to have a deep perspective and spiritual insight...I could argue against speakers arguments but I am not sure if it would lead anywhere...what I see here is a VERY simplfied view on "other religions"...I ask myself a question"why such a spiritual man as I take the speaker to be can speak like this? ...yes I agree that relying solely on "book wisdom" is very misleading and causes great suffering ....

[@christopherwallis751]

It's a 30-min video. I could do a two-hour one on the subject with more nuance but no one would watch. At least not on youtube.

[@christopherwallis751]

but thank you for having the humility to admit that you might not have understood what I was saying here.

[@clovek456]

@@christopherwallis751 yes its better to make a long video when the topic is so touchy and the best is when both parties are present...dont get me wrong you are a great inspiration to me and I am honored that you even reacted to my comment:) The thing is that I see myself as a universalist so I out of principle dont agree with making divisions either between people or ideas...(even though I make them all the time!...) otherwise we have here the same scenario as the Ukraine and Russia...:(

[@murrik]

@@christopherwallis751Hareesh ji, im Sure there would be enough people who would watch 2 hour versions of the things you would want to share, since people know that often you know what you are talking about.it would influence others live or at least their intellectual side, like for example mine

[@carlosiregui6916]

And god said, let there be monoteism, and Narcisus was born. That is why you are so afraid sir, because of the dangerous narcisists, which are most of the monoteists.

[@christopherwallis751]

not actually *afraid*, really . . .

[@carlosiregui6916]

Ok, cautious. My english is not the Best, sorry

[@percubit10]

It is all man-made and based on pagan stories.

[@christopherwallis751]

What is?

[@percubit10]

@@christopherwallis751 Religion

[@alodidi3150]

This title is misleading. You should have stated only Christianity. Abrahmanic religion is not only Christians. I think you have to study thoroughly the rest of th Abrahamic religion: Judaïsme and Islam before stating the facts and flows

[@christopherwallis751]

Islam is equally subject to the same "fatal flaw". Perhaps not Judaism though.

[@user-ul6vl3mz3p]

You just lost me. Although I loved your two books but putting yourself above others confirms my suspicion when I read your books that you are not on the second tier of the Spiral Dynamics system. Your view is the only correct view and you cannot see the Kosmic address of God. That is a flaw in your reasoning. In The Recognition Sutras is the mention of stages of development but you skipped over the importance of it. Pity.

[@christopherwallis751]

FWIW, i really don't think at all that my view is the only correct view. I was just, y'know, pointing out a difference between Western and Asian religions (sorry for the clickbaity title). Religions aside, my real view is that there is only ONE spiritual path in all the world, though it presents in different costumes.

[@user-ul6vl3mz3p]

@@christopherwallis751 Thank you for your answer to my comment. I have read/listened to both your books and even participated in one of your online meditation courses. The following statement from your translation and interpretation of The Recognition Sutras has a profound impact in my life: “You are the one Divine Consciousness made flesh. Your task is simply to become aware of this miracle, this fundamental fact of your being. Life has created a form by which it may know itself, and that form is you.” (Wallis, Christopher D. The Recognition Sutras: Illuminating a 1,000-Year-Old Spiritual Masterpiece.) This is not strange idea to the Christian or Jewish mystical traditions. You stated that there is only ONE spiritual path clothed in different costumes. That ONE spiritual path takes many forms. The difference between the East and the West boils down to Waking Up and Growing Up. Eastern religions focus on waking up to nonduality, emptiness, samsara, nirvana and enlightenment. The West focus on pre-rational, rational and post-rational development of consciousness. When fully enlightened Zen Buddhists masters came to the USA, they were met with enthusiastic American followers. But these Zen masters were on a prerational level, with their racist and sexist attitudes, while their students were on a rational or pluralistic levels. Researchers like Graves, Kohlberg, Piaget, Gebser, Maslow, Loevenger, Fowler and others have shown how people evolve from archaic, to magic, to magic/mythic, to mythic, rational, and to a pluralistic level on the first tier and on the second tier they move to the holistic and integral levels. Only people on the second tier can appreciate all the lower levels or what Spiral Dynamics says is that these people care about the health of the whole spiral. The Recognition Sutras were written a 1000 years ago by a person called Rājānaka Kṣemarāja, who was on a prerational level. One day while I was driving to work, I listened to your reading of the Sutras, Ksema mentioned levels of development. I couldn’t find the place afterwards. Just as the Bible needs to be reinterpreted from a higher level of consciousness, so too the Sutras. It is only recently that more Christians became interest in Christian mysticism with the discoveries of the Gnostic Gospels, like the Gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and the Gospels of Philip and Judas. To take it one step further; people on these different levels of consciousness also have a different understanding of the divine. Wilber calls it the Kosmic Address of God. On these eight levels people can experience God as the 3rd person, 2nd person or 1st person, or what Paul R. Smith calls “Is your God, Big Enough, Close Enough, You Enough?” When atheists say they don’t believe in God, they must specify which God they don’t believe in. When you criticize the Abrahamic religions and their God, you must stipulate which one. The tribal God of Abraham is not the same universal God of Jonah, or that of Jesus who said: “The Father and I are One.”

[@hanaechaoui5884]

How come the god of the Bible his the real god and let his creation kill him like that’s if he can’t protect his only son how he will protect us

[@younessbanmata1536]

I am a Muslim 🥰

[@usainbolt5153]

Jesus didnt die on cross so you can be sinful he died because mankind was not perfect enough to enter heaven by works alone remeber jesus told people to repent and sin no moore Christians dont have an entitlement or a licence to sin

[@christopherwallis751]

I mean, obviously that's what a Christian is going to say.

[@Fire_ov_Renewal]

I've meditated a lot on the christian religion and just had to admit it was nonsense!

[@britaom3299]

When I meditate on Christianity (as practiced and preached by today's Christians) what I see is a "religion" that is essentially Ego-Worship. Christian's make God-Jesus in their own Ego's image and then worship THAT, and they do so all in hopes of some heavenly reward in which their Ego gets satiated in some eternal Cosmic Las Vegas. They (their Ego) is going to live pleasurably FOREVER, and all for being on the "right team" and believing the "right things." Whoopee!! It's pretty petty and childish IMHO.

[@teachedteach]

Jesus was just an agressive apocalyptic preacher. From a taoist/zennist point of view there is no way Jesus teachings should be considered advanced. They are dualistic and very moralistic and judgemental. He was very angry and virtue signalling most of the time. His love teachings were only meant to the Jews. There is no evidence he taught universal values. In the gospel of John he admonished his Jewish disciples to love one another and not non Jews or even Jews that were not his disciples. When he taught love your enemies he meant other jews that were against you if you happened to be a jew. Jewish and muslims beliefs are based on two apalling and brutal books. Very primitive mindsets and cruel. So coming back to Jesus. He talked only to jews and 'love thy neighbour' just meant your jewish neighbour not your non jewish neighbour. So the universal Jesus was created by Paul after "personal" revelations he received which the real 12 apostles were not even aware of. Paul thought himself to be the greatest of all the apostles simply because his fanatical beliefs were created by himself. If any other christian taught Judaic Christianity which all apostles apparently did since Jesus never imagined teaching non jews, Paul would fight them and condemn them with impressive wrath. He was also self promoting and spent a lot of time either self victimizing or angrily arguing his gospel was the only real gospel. All others were false. Jesus himself was pretty unkind, ruthless and violent. The way he attacked Pharisees, riches and the rich, his absolute exclusivism and intolerance, his ranting about this or that is what has made christians intolerant, angry, preachy, and the " either with us or against us", " either convert or face dire consequences in the next world".

[@britaom3299]

You bring up an excellent point, actually. For all the talk about "peace and love Jesus" who supposedly was a great moral teacher, there are also plenty of, shall we say, "problematic" things that came out of his mouth. In some places, Jesus is far from some enlightened, tolerant teacher, but instead teaches hatred, violence, exclusivism and bigotry. He wants his enemies to be brought before him to be slain, those who don't follow him will have their teeth gnashed and wailed on for eternity, etc. There is a reason why the Nazis put up billboards throughout Germany in the prelude to the Holocaust with John 8:44 on them.

[@hanaechaoui5884]

The Quran 100% Allah book Allah hamdouallah make me believer of it

[@mcconlogue1898]

Overall though, I feel that your critique of Christianity in its' fundamentalist forms is accurate. Although you probably have been exposed to a very narrow slice of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

[@christopherwallis751]

Actually I love Xn mysticism & Sufism.

[@mcconlogue1898]

I think we are in the same boat. It's just that, as I'm sure you know, there are many wonderful Christian, Islamic, and Jewish practitioners out there. I think your critique has merit, but some in the Eastern camp will use it to denigrate Abrahamic religion and to justify spiritual pride. There are Pharisees in every camp.