The Fermi Paradox: Hidden Alien Civilizations

[@Scynthius137]

How cute. Isaac still believes in the existence of New York City. It is just a movie set where they filmed Gotham.

[@anarex0929]

yeah New York's almost gone to hell most of the rich have left a lot of the middle class that can leave did the only people left are the poor and the super democratic that do as they are told, unless it's breaking the law. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJvHYoqEnayfn7s

[@michaelstjohn4665]

Gotham is just anti-Batman propaganda. It was actually a documentary made in real time, they sold it as “fictional” to cover the existence of the bat man

[@deathsyth8888]

NYC doesn't exist. It's either Vancouver or Toronto. Wake up sheeple!

[@quantummaniac5]

New York is real, man! The Illuminati took me there after I was abducted by Bigfoot!

[@proudarmedreadytobugaloode6295]

Ha! Everyone knows Gotham is filmed on location in Gotham, Wakanda.

[@mjk9388]

I love how Isaac really thinks through things like the Fermi Paradox. It's something that makes this channel very unique compared to other science channels. Great job Isaac and team!

[@blueredbrick]

This is really the goto place for the Fermi paradox. Also the Coolworlds channel goes into depth once in a while

[@ESL-O.G.]

pay for stock footage, play it over for multiple videos. write a script and read it into a microphone. It's not that tough folks 😂 I like him too, but geez

[@bamers404]

wait? i thought he was alone 😂

[@scardoso95]

Wait. You think this is a science channel?

[@omni_0101]

Be sure to check out the channel Event Horizon as well, Arthur and John are friends and many of us frequent both channels.

[@asmrimperium]

It's a paradox - how can Isaac produce such high quality content every week??? Mysterious!

[@Schnittertm1]

The secret is teamwork. An ancient, almost lost art.

[@b.g.5869]

@Kevin Ma Hiding a civilization is easy. Just cover everything with leaves. Done.

[@Fabric445]

I think its a team of 4

[@b.g.5869]

@Kevin Ma I don't find the idea particularly silly.

[@davidbrennan660]

He is an IA super intelligence organisation that has a secret base with Missile silos..... that he agreed on.

[@devinnie7572]

"This is so amazing, there is a whole world of ideas beyond these four walls that I never imagined". That was my girlfriend's response when I finally convinced her to watch an Issac Arthur video last night, specifically I chose the video about black holes as weapons. Her reaction reminded of the feeling I got as a kid exploring ideas from big public ambassadors for science such as Carl Sagan. It isn't likely that you will see this comment Issac but if you do I just want thank you for spreading this sense of wonder. I know that you must know the exact feeling I mean and hope you know that you are that same thing for other people every day. I have been an avid fan for nearly two years and will continue to be into the foreseeable future.

[@NoticerOfficial]

I vividly remember being alone in my bathroom when I was 6. I was into dinsosaurs and knew they existed an unimaginably long time ago had recently learned a lot about space and earth’s position in space. I was pondering how my whole life was my family and school and how life was all so overwhelming when I thought about the dinosaurs, then zoomed out and thought about earth, then zoomed out again to the picture I’d seen of the solar system, then again and again. I’ll never forget, it happened in a split second -this overwhelming panic of all these things having happened in history having a reason before them- I zoomed out too far and what shattered by the realization that “this is it” I’m a kid, who has parents, who are just one of billions of people on a planet, that’s been around forever, yet are floating in literal infinite nothingness. I felt for a moment the feeling of being in total darkness with nothing in every direction and the idea of being born then dying and it all being this tiny fraction of a event. For a moment I saw things purely from the third person. My chest sharply jumped and the whole thought just leapt out of my mind, like it was too slippery to hold on to. It was a terrifying, euphoric and confusing moment about my existence, then everybody’s existence, then just all of existence followed by “we don’t know why” and it was too grand to focus on. I tried ti reproduce what I’d just imagined and it did it again before slipping away. As a kid there’s an answer and reason and explanation for everything, except existence. we simply didn’t know and imagining all of the smartest, experienced adults and scientists on all of earth literally being the exact same as me, this terrified kid, not having an answer to what is ultimately a “miracle” or “ true magic” when you zoom out far enough. It broke my mind. Why are we here. What made us. Earth. What made earth. The solar system. What made that the, galaxy, the universe. What’s beyond that? And then what made whatever made that? As infinitum. It broke my year old mind and soul. I looked in the mirror and saw a completely different person “from the outside” and I’ve never been the same since

[@carnlin390]

Given the recent news with him about the National Space Society, it's amusing that you likened Issac Arthur's Science and Future Videos like listening to an ambassador for science. It's great how his past content to great to listen to, and I'm sure both of us will be listening to him in the future.

[@zyfigamer]

“The best way not to lose a territorial fight is not to get in one.” Is that the first rule of warfare?

[@TraditionalAnglican]

Obviously, it is…

[@stefanr8232]

First rule of avoiding warfare.

[@rShakeford]

@@TraditionalAnglican how is it obvious?

[@TraditionalAnglican]

@@rShakeford - You must not be familiar with Isaac Arthur’s “First Rules of Warfare”. He must have at least 100 of them! 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@scoutobrien3406]

That's actually the 2nd rule. The one and only 2nd rule.

[@betabeta6335]

“We live as the victors atop a mountain of skulls.” Holy shit, Isaac Arthur is metal as fuck, and he isn’t even trying.

[@ironreed2654]

All the most metal things come from science.

[@Captaintrippz]

/r/natureisfuckingmetal

[@thehand7902]

In the whole vast domain of living nature there reigns an open violence, a kind of prescriptive fury which arms all the creatures to their common doom. As soon as you leave the inanimate kingdom, you find the decree of violent death inscribed on the very frontiers of life. You feel it already in the vegetable kingdom: from the great catalpa to the humblest herb, how many plants die, and how many are killed. But from the moment you enter the animal kingdom, this law is suddenly in the most dreadful evidence. A power of violence at once hidden and palpable … has in each species appointed a certain number of animals to devour the others. Thus there are insects of prey, reptiles of prey, birds of prey, fishes of prey, quadrupeds of prey. There is no instant of time when one creature is not being devoured by another. Over all these numerous races of animals man is placed, and his destructive hand spares nothing that lives. He kills to obtain food and he kills to clothe himself. He kills to adorn himself, he kills in order to attack, and he kills in order to defend himself. He kills to instruct himself and he kills to amuse himself. He kills to kill. Proud and terrible king, he wants everything and nothing resists him. From the lamb he tears its guts and makes his harp resound ... from the wolf his most deadly tooth to polish his pretty works of art; from the elephant his tusks to make a toy for his child - his table is covered with corpses ... And who in all of this will exterminate him who exterminates all others? Himself. It is man who is charged with the slaughter of man ... So it is accomplished ... the first law of the violent destruction of living creatures. The whole earth, perpetually steeped in blood, is nothing but a vast altar upon which all that is living must be sacrificed without end, without measure, without pause, until the consummation of things, until evil is extinct, until the death of death. Joseph de Maistre

[@Maimkillburn69]

Skulls for the skull throne

[@marza339]

Cringe

[@timogul]

If you were a malicious entity that wanted to have active agents that you could not trust, you wouldn't want to put a bomb in their brain, you would want to put it in their vertebrae. That way, you could shut down their motor functions and recover them, rather than risk losing whatever information they'd gained. The brain would be a good back-up option just in case though.

[@jasoncaldwell5627]

No need for a crude bomb- they only require something that blows a critical blood vessel in the brain, or better still, use electricity to fry the brain, then download new programming.

[@seanhewitt603]

Dark... love it

[@KarlRosner]

I think Isaac isn't taking one major survival trait into account when talking about mega civilizations, laziness. Almost every animal on the face of the earth makes a calorie cost benefit judgment when thinking about doing any thing, if it's not wroth doing they just hang out until they get hungry and are forced to hunt/scavenge. So any intelligence species that evolved should have that trait, that wounder full laziness that helps animals stretch out the time between feeding with glorious idleness. "Genocide the galaxy? That seems like A LOT of work man, I'm going to pass on that." *Hits Space Bong* "Oh if we dont get them they will get us, well what if they are as lazy as us? That's equality as likely right dude?" *Smokes Space Pipe* Humans don't stand on a mountain of skulls, we are laying down because standing is too much effort.

[@hunam1464]

Exactly. I would say a hyperintelligent alien civilization would be more curious about the microscopic life, which has vastly more genetic diversity and volume rather than the multicellular organisms who are more or less a galactic nuisance despite being rather lethal on this one planet.

[@zachanderegg8763]

Ah, but what about the one civilization that does think its worth it?

[@20firebird]

we put permanent research bases in antarctica and went to the moon to prove a point. i don’t think that’s laziness lol

[@marza339]

Oh so then why did Russia annex Crimea? Why did 36 countries get together to fight Iraq in 1991? If civilizations were lazy then civilizations wouldn't have arisen. Moron

[@BirdTurdMemes]

Today in First World countries people can quit their jobs without savings and they'll still have housing, clothing, electricity and a few appliances. According to this "calorie cost-benefit judgement" logic pretty much everyone would quit their jobs and live off of welfare, but they don't -- for some reason. Honestly I'm not quite sure why, I'm also not quite sure why I think the same way as well. Wouldn't the most logical thing be to never work or study and just have as many children as possible? That's one of the top legal strategies to win Darwin's Game, yet only a few pursue it -- with most not even considering it.

[@ChrisSDParker]

Cloned investigator being a good plot is VERY close to the plot of MOON

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

S3 and 4 of the expanse too

[@jeremygreer4039]

I came to say the same. Zaphod was his name.

[@DoktorNFC]

Oblivion

[@Dies1r4e]

There is a bit of a flaw in your logic, it stems from you being a smart mofo don't get me wrong. But your logic of "you dont need to hide from us, but from older and stronger things" ....well tanks are painted camouflaged colors. Follow me here, Tanks Cammo isn't perfect, yet we spend the time and trouble to coat them in paint to blend in some. The tank isn't afraid of the random infantry man with his rifle walking around but is hiding from the Jet flying over head or the other tank stalking them. The paint however helps hide the tank from the infantryman none the less. So an alien species might be hiding from us simply because they are hiding from someone else and it just happens to hide them from us. The Jet hunting the tank may have thermal sensors, radar, real time satellite footage and all sorts of gizmo's to find the tank, many of which might outright ignore the fact the tank is painted a dull earth tone, but the tank is STILL painted with good old colored paint to hide from the jet? That doesn't make sense according to your line of thinking, but it we do it because sometimes you might miss the tank all together if you are not looking carefully, and all that tech is meaningless if you are not LOOKING for a target. We bother to paint the tank because a glint of light off an unpainted hull might attract attention that gets that thermal sight pointed right at the tank exposing it, where a dull hull painted like the ground might have the jet fly right past and never bother to look for a tank in the first place.

[@svchineeljunk-riggedschoon4038]

It sounds like you desperately want to believe in alien civilizations in our galactic neighborhood and all your reasoning is geared towards proving what you already believe.

[@Dies1r4e]

@@svchineeljunk-riggedschoon4038 that tanks are painted tan in the desert despite thermal sights being able to see them? yeah I do believe that fully. My entire thing had nothing to do with aliens or there relative distance to us. The alien portion of it was in reference to the video who's topic was aliens but It was about pointing out the logical fallacy of "because someone can defeat your method of hiding with X Y or Z technology means you shouldn't bother to hide at all" did....did you read it, or just sorta skim, or are really bad at reading comprehension?

[@SpecialEDy]

Happy Arthursday to my species and any hidden alien civilizations plotting our destruction. Please come down to earth and enjoy a drink and snack with me while we chat.

[@cosmicparticles9658]

We would love to Steve (and we still love your game) but we do not eat Fetus like the rest of your species.

[@rianmacdonald9454]

tried that, didnt go that well. ok didnt try it with you, that may be the problem, but those that were met, well that's why humanity's days are numbered.

[@AsobiMedio]

Destruction?...I mean, what hidden civilizations? hehe.

[@MarcillaSmith]

I, for one, welcome our extraterrestrial overlords

[@ViceCoin]

Maybe they don't consume alcohol or junk food?

[@empireempire3545]

The solution to the Fermi paradox is that all the alien civs are too busy helping Isaac making videos to build megastructures we could detect.

[@seanhewitt603]

Virtual worlds cannot be seen with a telescope, where is the internet?, why it's weakly imprinted in the em field around the surface of earth. Good luck finding it from beyond 25 or so light-years...

[@enrixosjjdjd187]

That’s perfect for my lunch break! I am binging your show for years and I am honestly so glad that this exists!

[@jhsrt985]

The absolute best benge to sit at💁‍♂️🤭🤫

[@TheAnalyticalEngine]

As a suggestion for civs on the run - how about "Fugitive Civilisations"?

[@TmsTanim]

I came here to say this but knew in my heart it had already been said.

[@FLPhotoCatcher]

My idea for the hidden space ship episode: Sly Shrouded Spaceship Shadow Species or a shorter version: Shrouded Starship Shadow Species

[@clintcarpentier2424]

Chuckles The last transmission from the voyager probes... CLANG

[@leonrblitz4351]

does someone have a big hammer ? XD

[@sophiathekitty]

I think a show about an investigator that essentially dies at the end of each investigation and is replaced by a fresh clone for each episode could be a fun way to maintain the status quo between episodes. Basically the excuse for why nothing realy changes for episodic TV shows. Could do stuff like have clones created with the memories from different points of the original investigators life. To explore how we charge over our lives and respond differently to similar situations. I think it would be more interesting to avoid the "oh no I'm a clone how do I escape this?" Like maybe instead sometimes they have to access the logs from previous investigations.

[@thedoruk6324]

It would be so *Ironic* that most of the civilazations and sentient species thrived on the icy oceanic interiors of frozen moons sattelites and such never realizing or seeing their isolation

[@sa.8208]

your just as asleep bro

[@westtexas806]

@@sa.8208 he is wearing a mask. He has been sleeping on science.

[@sa.8208]

@@westtexas806 yeah, i meant the fact we possibly live in a universe FILLED with life, yet we never realize or see our isolation

[@westtexas806]

@@sa.8208 you shouldn't feel isolated if you don't know we are the only life. I'm sure there is life right in front of our eyes we can't see. In the bible animals can see other realms present here on earth. . Being the only planet with life yet discovered should make you feel special.

[@Blaze6108]

Given that icy moons outnumber Earth a dozen to one in our solar system, that isn't all that unlikely. An aquatic being would have far more trouble getting into space because water is hella heavy to hoist all the way to orbit, not to mention they'd first have to break through the crust, which would require advanced power technologies like nuclear energy.

[@mprojekt72]

Isaac, your episodes regarding non-Terran civilizations always cause me to run GalCiv III or Stellaris to try out different ideas. ^_^V

[@ghost_1153]

Oh holy Terra

[@mprojekt72]

@@ghost_1153 Ave Imperator, gloria in excelsis Terra.

[@mprojekt72]

@Cannabis Dreams Nice. I am going to give that a try, once as the player species and the next as one of my opponents. :)

[@icmann4296]

Arthur has frequently mentioned uploading minds to a virtual environment as a possible future for humanity. What I struggle with is the list of motivations. What purpose does this serve? Why would humanity ever choose this? Especially since it's more likely that a person being uploaded to a simulation is not going to experience a translation of their consciousness. Rather, it's more likely that a copy of the person's memories/neural patterns will be created in the simulation, but the original person will still be around to live out the rest of their meaty life and never themselves reap any benefit from the process. So what does creating such a simulation and populating it with copies of ourselves do for human civilization? At least living creatures with or without religious motivations can trust in evolution and feel there's some value in human civilization evolving just to see what happens and how civilization may make a mark on the universe. Or just explore the universe and learn more. These are things the virtual folks in a virtual universe can't actually do. What am I missing?

[@strikeone7803]

I agree with you, the only true way to achieve immortality would be to directly take your brain/nervous system and give it another body. This reminds me of a horror game called SOMA where all of humanity has practically gone extinct due to an asteroid impact and the survivors living in the ocean try to subvert death by uploading their consciousness into a virtual reality capsule. A sudden wave of mass suicides then started because people realized that there was a 50/50 chance that their personality might not be uploaded into the capsule and started killing themselves to "Secure continuity". What ends up happening is that a COPY of their brain is uploaded into the thing, not the original personality and they're left stuck as machines on a death world/ocean being hunted by a rogue A.I. and its minions/robots. The main protagonist of the game (you the player) suffers that same fate and he has to watch the capsule that was meant to "save" him go off into space while he and countless others are left behind....either committing final mass suicide as machines or being hunted by monsters. I rather die organic than live forever as machine with no emotions....unless technology actually allows me to extend my lifespan. Also a virtual existence is on itself pointless since...well the organic species is dead and the capsule is vulnerable to outside elements. Imagine being a 10,000,000 civilization "living" on a tiny computer that ends up being swallowed by a black hole....

[@lucky-segfault]

The gist is minds made of computers can be far more efficient than minds made of goo, and they can be backed up, stored indefinitely, copied, and other stuff. Obviously most people wouldn't like this option for the reasons you mentioned, but some would. And it's possible that computer people could out compete or out survive bio people and be all that's left after a conflict. There's also the possibility that it would have enough upsides to gradually become more popular until basically everyone used it

[@pace7746]

The biggest positive for this mind uploading is the scale involved. These uploaded minds will not, in theory, die of anything but destroying all copies. What this means is that even in the absence of creating or copying minds, the population of "robo humans" will continue to grow. Imagine 1% of each generation decides to upload their minds for whatever reason (I suspect it will be higher, especially if you upload your mind on your deathbed). At some point, there will eventually be more uploaded minds than biological ones as the biological people tend to die of old age. This is only one of the potential futures for humanity because there is no gurantee that biological minds will have to die of old age. There are potential solutions like advanced genetics, cyborg, or nanobot repair mechanisms.

[@kffire12]

If talking about utility Maybe copying the minds of people is all we do. We use those personalities for very specific tasks and roles the original person was meant for. Say you have a really loyal soldier, you can simulate his mind, but nothing else. You could put the mind if that soldier to use into an autonomous drone, jet, tank or submarine. This way you could have the advantages a human pilot without the limitations of human biology. Further in military or political matters, you need people all over your state that you can rely on. Uploaded minds offer some degree of quality control. Otherwise, I wouldnt replace the rank and file or the majority of your population with simulated people.

[@skynet5828]

You're already a program (your consciousness) that runs on a computer (your body). The only thing you do by uploading yourself is to change the hardware.

[@intothevoid9417]

This was one really good episode, as always diving much deeper in what first appears as a simple topic

[@LucasDimoveo]

That alien investigator story is more likely to end like a horror movie than a heroic one

[@jasoncaldwell5627]

Worse- what if we travel to other systems only to find the remains of civilizations already destroyed. Could we even comprehend their technology? Or would we be like an any crawling into some unknowable kitchen?

[@jeffumbach]

Depends on how much more advanced they were than us, something simple like a hammer would probably be recognizable.

[@cannonfodder4376]

A most informative video to round out yet another Arthursday. Wonderful work as always Isaac and team.

[@angryginger791]

"I'm not afraid of being all alone in the forest in the middle of the night, and getting snuck up on by some unknown bigger predator. Because I'm a human and we're the nastiest and most deadly thing on this planet." Anyone else get a little tingle of pride Isaac said that? LOL!

[@mikelfunderburk5912]

Yeah. I do. I live in South Louisiana. You don't go to the bayou without a weapon.

[@palfers1]

@@mikelfunderburk5912 Yanks, eh?

[@totalermist]

Not really, it's one of the most stupid things he ever said on this channel. If you are alone in an actual forest (not the sad excuses of agglomerations of trees you find in most densely populated countries) at night, you'll *very* quickly realise that you're not the apex predator you'd like to be. Most bears are faster, stronger, and more agile than you. Just a pair of wolves will make short work of you as you can't outrun them; not to mention big cats. And those are just the bigger ones. Depending on where exactly you are, snakes, spiders, centipedes and even tiny mosquitos can end your life quickly - even if just by transmitting some nasty disease into your system. We're not the most deadly thing on this planet. I'd like for Arthur to spend a few days in the untamed wilderness and see whether he still stands by that statement. People get mauled by hippos on a regular basis, too, so it's not even just the "big bad predators" that'll just obliterate a human being.

[@UnknownPerson-cq3qv]

@@totalermist depends on the equipment. Id live to see a hippo or bear survive a 50. Cal to the head :)

[@hemidas]

Australia: "S'that a challenge, mate?"

[@philipcollier4883]

If Aliens want to hide and have Super Detection abilities, could they just find a spot that has no detectable life within 16billion light years and let the expanding universe keep everyone at bay?

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

Not at this point, for the reason you mentioned. They wouldn't have the ability to get there

[@Deathnotefan97]

If FTL travel isn’t possible, then they wouldn’t be able to get to such a location before the expanding universe moved it too far away from them (unless they happened to already be there) If FTL travel is possible, then the expanding universe wouldn’t keep others away

[@timmytheimpaler1750]

Im so glad you do this for us every week- i love your work man

[@Jondiceful]

About Pangea- I would like to offer a correction. On Earth, our Pangea led to the creation of vast internal deserts that were uncrossable and uninhabited. Had humanity evolved on such a world, we might very well have avoided trying to cross it until we had the means to do so without dying, such as airplanes. If such a continent had also had a spring-fed or glacier/fed civilization deep in its interior, it might easily escape detection until technology advanced enough to permit contact between them. Granted, other pangea configurations might not have this problem- one that snakes its way around the globe with no vast interior lands for example. But you get the point. Pangea does not necessarily lead to everybody knowing where everybody is until every conceivable barrier to travel can be conquered by technology.

[@blackwaterpmc9539]

Thank you for your content ;) I especially liked your series on colonization (solar system and Apha Centauri), really interesting.

[@fiiral5870]

Before watching: - Other older civilisations (well what are they hiding for than?) - Some irrational fear about space (?)

[@whothefoxcares]

*older civilized people don't* wear face masks unless robbing banks or fighting tiny enemies that *obey strict curfew hours.*

[@MarkusAldawn]

I forgot what day it is! I might be sick so I'm sitting on my room trying not to spread it and this is just the thing to pick up my spirits. Thanks!

[@westtexas806]

Awe how nice of you. Lol

[@adamthethird4753]

My imagination always gets such a workout after these videos. The idea of farming universes...

[@Truth888]

Isaac , will you do a review of Apple Tv's "Foundation"? Curious what your thoughts will be on the series.

[@anoninunen]

"I am Alpharius, and this is my favorite solution to the Fermi Paradox."

[@AlohaMilton]

Isaac may be brilliant but he has not spent many nights in the woods in bear country. Humans are as a group the baddest creature, as an individual very vulnerable. Mountain lions kill people stealthy and are scary as well, they go straight for the neck, they know what they are doing prowling that forest.

[@ZontarDow]

He lives in rural Ohio and is a vet, so he probably doesn't go out at night in the woods unarmed

[@larrybeckham6652]

Great episode and just the right length! I do disagree with a lot of Good People that we are to draw any conclusions about the Fermi Paradox when it only look since, what 1960 with Project Ozma? What 61 year in the great time of river in this galaxy?

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

You haven't understood Isaac's Dyson dilemma. We have had enough time. Because it takes only about 10,000 years to go from hunter gatherer to Dyson swarm, and that means that by now, there should be stars which are just as bright as a normal star but only in the infrared instead of visible light, and that would be a giveaway. And you can see that at all distances. The fact you don't see any is proof no other civilization has arisen at any point before the last 10,000 years anywhere in the universe

[@VainerCactus0]

We're the scariest beings in the forest at night. All the predators have nightmares about things going bump in the night, and they are human bumps.

[@foty8679]

Thats what people dont realize. We ARE the Apex-Predator. Sure, one human..some animals can take us down, but back then, people made sure every member of your species gets killed if you meet them again (or they devolved a huge anxiety of humans like most surviving predators). There is a reason the ice bear is the only animal that still activly hunts humans, because they do not know us yet!

[@pieterverhaeghe5143]

I find that my apparently rather unique explenation for the fermi paradow also covers why we can't see them while they might even be among us: they are too small. Ive considered the advantage of any advanced species to constantly minituarise themselves further a quite valuabe: Advantages are less required resources to sustain, a easier abbilety to move at a speed faster than light (especially when being smaller than light) and the advantage of time dillution allowing them to nessecarily live longer but having a life that appears to be much longer, by having a mind that can opperate at a higher "clock frequency" as it could be said analogous to microchips. With advanced and further advancing technoligy it would not appear impossible to constantly minituarise a species to gain aforementioned advantages, especially as "the smaller one becomes, the smaller things can be made". Our size creates limitations as to the smallness we can observe. Indeed, if aliens are smaller than light itself, how does it relate to the idea that we should be able to see alien species to the size of a footprint they leave in terms of light? Chiefly, i do challenge the perception that any alien species would naturally come to occupy all of space in observable size.

[@kalakritistudios]

"among us"

[@jimBobuu]

"Humans are the nastiest and deadliest thing on the planet." Mosquitos: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@virutech32]

humans actively developing genetic superweapons to wipe mosquitoes off the planet: "yes"

[@mpetersen6]

Viruses: Silly mosquitoes

[@zijkhal8356]

It just occurred to me that when talking about filter for the Fermi paradox, loads of different barriers are taken into account, and their effects with regards to the Fermi paradox are considered as a whole, and not on an individual basis. However, when talking about solutions to the Fermi paradox, I mostly only hear about a single solution in isolation, and whether it's strong / good enough to be considered a solution. I do not know if you have already made a vid about trying to take into account all possible solutions to the Fermi paradox, and discussing how good a solution they as a whole are to the Fermi paradox, but if not, I think it could be an interesting vid

[@20firebird]

i believe some of isaac’s first videos about the fermi paradox were overview videos, but don’t quote me on that

[@CapinCooke]

Yup. Go to Arthur’s channel & scroll back in Arthur’s videos for several years. You will find at least one very comprehensive video where he explores multiple potential solutions to the Fermi paradox.

[@derekk.2263]

I really like the guy in the Roman legionary Halloween costume absentmindely playing with the wheat at 10:25.

[@michaelspence2508]

I used to lean towards the "Boogey Man" hypothesis myself, and I think you're a little more dismissive of it than is warranted. But now I lean more towards Virtual Reality as a late filter no species has yet crossed. When you can have everything you want, beyond the pleasure of drugs, things like love, respect, popularity, wealth and hell even the ability to explore space (albeit a virtual one) all delivered to you by a superintelligent AI that knows *exactly* how to give you *precisely* the things you most want so you will be most satisfied, then you're basically done as a species. And yes, I think this stacks up to the Universality requirement of the Fermi Paradox quite well. Every species will have evolved drives, from the basic to the complex. And every species relevant to the Fermi Paradox discussion has science and technology and will be in the process of using technology to satisfy those drives. Even if they have extremely powerful cultural compulsions against "Reward Hijacking" (as it's called in AI) they are still using technology to get things done that they want done (and are therefore satisfying their evolutionary drives via technology) so they have taken at least one step down that path. And the larger their population gets, the larger the number of members of their culture (in absolute terms) will take the wireheading option. The more who do that, the more will come to see that as an option. Unless of course, they get Artificial Superintelligence wrong. Then they just get turned into paper clips.

[@QuinSkew]

Dude the universe is hella young. Life is barely just starting. 14 billion years is hella young for a universe. Any alien species out there is going to either be on par with us. Modern humanity is about a hundred thousand years old.

[@skynet5828]

I don't think that's a good solution to the Fermi Paradox. Even if you live entirely in a virtual reality, you still need energy and resources in the real world to run your simulation. So you still have a motivation to colonize and harvest the galaxy, even if you do it only with robots and AI. Such civilizations might expand even faster than organic civilizations, since they can increase their population faster (copy and paste) and don't really care what happens in the real world as long as it helps them to preserve their virtual paradise.

[@andrasbiro3007]

​@@QuinSkew A hundred thousand years is nothing compared to 14 billion years, or even to 3.5 billion, which is the age of life on Earth. A tiny variation in the circumstances and the other civilization is a million years older or younger than us. Even just in our history, there were opportunities to skew the results by a thousand years easily. For example the Roman Empire, just before it's fall, was close to an industrial revolution. At the rate of progress we have today, a thousand years is enough to become gods in the eyes of a XXI. century human.

[@69Kazeshini]

I lean more towards the idea that there is life out there but they exist at different stages and becoming a spacefaring species is super hard not impossible but hard. There are approximately 400 billion stars in the milky way galaxy and recently scientist found organic compounds being released from all of those stars but that doesn't mean the galaxy is teeming with life, the conditions have to be just right for chemical reactions to occur. Then you have to facto in the moment unicellular life became multicellular and how often can that occur. Then there are the extinction level events, earth has gone through five of them, the last one was when the dinosaurs were taken out by an asteroid, dinosaurs were around for a long time and nothing technological happened. It took homosapiens 100 million years to form anything that looked like a civilization. It is only in the last 300 years science and technology really took off. So from my observation alot of planets are probably barren rocks with weak magnetosphere(mars) or a hot house(venus). They may be life but microbial life. There may be aquatic life on water worlds but never developed intelligence on par with a human or have the ability to use tools. They may be alien dinosaurs or the planet is currently undergoing an extinction event. They may be intelligent aliens but leaving the planet may be hard or they are in the same boat as us. Anything more advance and we should be able to detect it which we haven't yet or they exist in another galaxy life doesn't have to only appear in the milky way.

[@knowledgecenter2806]

I for one would enter the eternal bwth where endorphins & dopamine flows freely. Another comment suggested we are lazy. Well, count me as lazy aswell. Sit & relaxed, enjoy the infinite show where all is possible. And yes you'll get bored. Just hit restart. Though I guess the restart is when we enter the eternal bath in our reality, for we are not conscious of having entered it.

[@mickdipiano8768]

I thought this topic was already covered? Well always love more content.

[@PerfectAlibi1]

You could just pretend you got destroyed and that there is nothing of interest left in your star system. And any space travel you do, you could disguise your spaceships as random asteroids of useless rock.

[@marrqi7wini54]

That could work very well against your more classic sci-fi properties like star wars or the sort since they almost never go out of their way to look in those places. But for a more realistic futuristic civilization like the ones Isaac Arthur describes, it might not work because if any other civilization slightly less, as, or more advanced than will be looking in that direction and would want to see what's going on.

[@kyjo72682]

Playing dead wouldn't work. An expanding civilization would colonize solar systems regardless of whether someone else already lived there or not.

[@henryviiifake8244]

*In a galaxy far, far away:* Xāýkhül : "Supreme Leader, why do we keep avoiding that Local Cluster of galaxies when we're trying to expand our Empire?" Supreme Leader: "Kid... do you have _ANY IDEA_ what those Humans would do to us if they found out we existed? _DO YOU?!"_

[@axiezimmah]

27:00 this seems to be happening with toads that were brought to Australia. Since they have no natural predators in Australia, they reproduced like crazy, but now they seem to become cannibalistic, while in their native habitat they aren't.

[@16xthedetail76]

Woah

[@greenrocket23]

Australia sure changes the things that end up getting there, doesn't it?

[@CookingandWH40kVideos]

Been checking everyday for the new video to drop. Got my drink and snack

[@billbadson7598]

15:00 _"That would probably be a good plot for a story"_ Oblivion and Moon both kind of did it. I'm sure there are lots of others.

[@ballehakan]

The 4th Expanse book has that as a sub-plot.

[@fritzhanszirkel4185]

Also Bladerunner sort of

[@captainstroon1555]

I'm not a fan of the dark forest theory because it only works as a fermi paradox solution if every single civilisation also believes in it and caution is greater than greed and curiosity in every single one of them. It's also a very pessimistic worldview. Neither nature nor nations are as competitive to kill on sight.

[@Deathnotefan97]

Not to mention that, any civilization killing you would alert other civilizations to their presence, and they know this, so the best way to survive such a universe is to loudly announce your location to everyone, as no one can make a move on you without exposing themselves

[@smatthewson2613]

Hey, just a thought on your comments on rethinking the use of colonisation in a space context, I think the key point there is avoiding reenacting colonial systems of oppression in the culture that gets established. In Kim Stanley Robinson's RGB mars series, and the expanse, this idea of exporting the earth's societal ills or not is given much consideration. Keep up the good work. Xx

[@ShadowWolfTJC]

If Isaac wanted to cover such topics as aliens leaving behind their old interstellar territories in order to flee from some existential threat, such as a supernova, or genocidal aliens (like in Battlestar Galactica or Mass Effect: Andromeda), then perhaps "Alien Refugees" would be a fitting title suggestion?

[@raydavison4288]

If you haven't already read Cixin Liu's "Dark Forest" series, drop whatever you are doing & read it poste haste.

[@jasoncaldwell5627]

Sounds like Greg Bear's Forge of God- where the idea that Earth's unmasked radio emissions is like a baby crying in a forest full of wolves...

[@raydavison4288]

@@jasoncaldwell5627: It is similar. The difference being that in "The Forge of God" it was only one race who sent out the destroyers. In Cixin's universe almost all races who have the technology use it to destroy all other races that they encounter. When Bear published "The Forge of God", I felt that he had taken "first contact" scenarios to the next level. I believe the same of the "Dark Forest" trilogy. I highly recommend "Dark Forest" to other lovers of Science fiction. Cixin's book of short stories has some real gems also.

[@saladinbob]

Here's the thing about the Fermi Paradox I've never heard discussed. Humanity evolved during a period of intense glaciation on this planet, so they had been around for almost half a million years before farming became viable., without which there can be no stable civilisation because as hunter gatherers have to follow migrations. Just because humanity evolved during the ice Age on this planet does not mean alien life did, which would likely place us as a younger race. Their signals probably reached us several hundred thousand years ago, so it's not strange at all that we don't hear anything from them now. Either don't use radio any more or destroyed themselves. The answer to the Paradox is we're just late to the party.

[@wilhelmhedin8845]

Humans historically, care for sick humans. Humans have cared for the weak, until quite recently, this could have helped us adapt, but the time scale is tiny so it is hard to say. Anyone being wrong with an "without them we could have blah blah" think again. And again.

[@seankash8546]

Within the private space programs, it is generally found that when dealing with other species, there's a 95%-5% breakdown between those who wish to trade & coexist, and those who wish to dominate. Though a tiny fraction, the small 5% of deviant species is a huge pain in the butt as it is. It is also important to understand though that our programs' innovations over the past seven decades allow us to keep most of those shenanigans at bay.

[@zaidsiddiqui]

Is Oumuamua a spaceship really ? and can you make a video you that?(

[@paulr9562]

The issue with it speeding up is why wouldn't you put the pedal down after you exited the gravity well?

[@alecesne]

This episode is good because it answers some of the questions in Three Body Problem. Great as always

[@winstonsmith478]

Due to our meager detection capabilities there is no mystery AT ALL about why we haven't detected anyone else. I saw a question answered online years ago by a guy who is an expert in RF SETI: how far away would we able to detect our own RF emissions? Answer: a measly ONE light year. Other experts have also pointed out that as our technology advances where more data can be transmitted more efficiently at lower power and the use of fiber optics increase, we'll get to the point where we'd be undetectable at any reasonable distance. Super advanced ET may be using comm tech we wouldn't even be ABLE to detect. Finally, only an idiot civilization would, like we do occasionally, high power beam their presence into an unknown neighborhood.

[@tomestep8095]

The problem I have with the Fermi Paradox is time and distance. There could be alien civilizations that control entire galaxies or even galactic clusters, but are so far away that we'll never know of their existence. We assume that civilizations will inevitably be able to colonize entire galaxies. Maybe there is one, but they are vastly more intelligent than we are. Do you have existential conversations with ants? Just hope they don't decide to step on our ant hill. The self-replicating machine scenario has one major issue: How does the machine survive trips between star systems? There are a lot of things that cause issues with complicated devices traveling in space without constant maintenance. This increases the complexity of any vehicle that would be needed for the endeavor. The more complicated it gets; the more susceptible to these issues it becomes. To overcome those issues, the size of the object increases, bringing more complications. At what point does the size and complexity become sufficient to make the entire endeavor a waste of resources?

[@ashley-r-pollard]

I think that brushing over spacetime and the hard speed of light limit have implications that are non-obvious to the question of where is everybody, but with a limited data-set of one, no hard conclusions can be made. But, I do like your final summary is appealing.

[@mugin11223344]

The problem with The Fermi Paradox is that something is missing. What is missing is: Our lack of understanding. There is so much we do not understand.

[@atk05003]

The Fermi Paradox is really just a way of expressing that some of our assumptions are wrong. Talking about "solutions" really just means examining our assumptions and trying to find ways to get better data. It's only a paradox in the sense that our early best guesses on the topic lead to conclusions that are at odds with reality.

[@HebaruSan]

One Dyson sphere (type 2 civ) would be like a big infrared beacon announcing your presence to anyone in your galaxy looking to rumble. But spheres around _all_ of the stars in your galaxy (type 3 civ) should be safe, since anyone able to see your mainly-infrared-emission galaxy would be too far away to be a threat. Maybe the fact that we don't see any such galaxies means that there is some kind of FTL that discourages advanced civs from such projects?

[@Ofinfinitejest]

Another interesting video, and yet again from my perspective it makes the mistake of assuming ETI far in advance of ourselves would do the kinds of things we do right now, in terms of breeding, expansion, or vastly less believable, hostile actions. I think what they would do would be both beyond our possible understanding and beyond our ability to even detect. Again, this is exactly in the way an ant colony in the middle of a city super highway does not detect all the human constructions and actions going on all around it.

[@LaserGuidedLoogie]

As with families, tribes, and countries, the primary source of conflict will tend to be internally. As a general guess, I would expect internal conflicts to outnumber external conflicts by an order of magnitude (at least). Those internal conflicts might represent a better solution to the Fermi Paradox, than any supposed external conflict (e.g. Corona virus).

[@MrJero85]

It's hard to hate someone you have never met and nor ever will meet. Strangers are some of the safest people to meet.

[@Myname-il9vd]

happy Arthursday!!!! I love me some Fermi paradox before bed, also I think my favorite space stealth was in Alastair Reynolds revelation space trilogy where they had a computer that could run an algorithm to remove heat instead of produce it, I thought that was super super creative

[@mcconkeyb]

"2+2=4" except in the realm of quantum mechanics. We also don't have any idea what dark energy or dark matter is, or how it might interact outside of the single property that is observed for each of these mysterious parts of our universe.

[@lukehowes6464]

I have never been so early for an SFIA episode and I’m loving it

[@hillzachary01]

WOOOOOO SFIA Thursday! This channel is just awesome!

[@knpark2025]

9:05 this is the most elegant monologue which can be boiled down to "I am not in danger; I am the danger".

[@tomasosorio9658]

I am currently developing a science fiction setting, and your channel is a great source of ideas for truly fantastic scenarios. Thank you, Isaac.

[@Lukegear]

They'd fools to hide and miss Isaac's content

[@krini5433]

Yes another Fermi paradox episode!! I really look forward to those..

[@zepmarq]

Another thought provoking & entertaining episode... Actually, they all are. 👍Thank you!

[@thetruth45678]

1:40 Finally! You qualified your assumptions with the truth. v assumption v qualified by the truth "not a viable premise, *UNDER KNOWN PHYSICS"* Was that so hard?

[@FirstRisingSouI]

Nice discussion on cosmic sociology.

[@mizushimo]

According to what I've seen of this series, the most viable fermi paradox solutions are First born, possibly Prime Directive and the simulation theory. So either we are the first or we are isolated in a reality bubble or exist as someone's virtual simulation

[@marza339]

What about anal warts?

[@ed9121]

Many years ago now, before space became as popular as it is presently, well... before KZbin exploded discussions of space at any rate, I would muse about this topic often and thought that no one seemed to mention one thing - not openly anyway, I found no references to it... And that is, someone has to be first. Maybe, just maybe, even after nearly 14 billion years, maybe we humans are the first civilization. Perhaps not the first life in the universe, but first complex life, first technological civilization. Maybe even the only one that will ever exist. It might seem far fetched considering the size and age of the universe and astronomical number of worlds out there, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility to say such a situation is entirely unlikely. I wrote a short story along those lines back then, only wish I could find the hard copy as it would make interesting reading.

[@montikore]

Another great video Isaac. Thanks for all the thought provoking ideas.

[@mikelfunderburk5912]

Thanks to all involved! We all love the content!

[@jintarokensei3308]

Galactic conquest still the best option for any civ. I still maintain that only a hive mind could do that

[@garethbaus5471]

One of the more interesting implications of this possibility, is that we are approaching the end of the period where our species can't mount an interstellar attack so if there is a predator species out there it will probably try to wipe us out within the next couple of genorations so that their is a near zero chance of retaliation, and once we develop the ability to build miltary capable interstellar probes even limited ones we have pretty much reached the comparativly safe period where diplomacy is probably the best way to deal with us. It is sortove like MAD, but we don't need to be able to completely obliterate a civilization in order to make it too costly for us to be worth invading.

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

"stealth nomad societies" or "nomad stealth societies", hmm. that has some interesting implications, especially if they're so meager on resource usage that they appear to be waste-heat stealth when there just being frugal with resources they gather as they go from star system to solar system gathering resources to grow.

[@TheJarric]

refugee civilications as they tecgnicly dont need to keep dyin it

[@LukeVilent]

I was curios if you could make an episode about a civilization inside of a black hole. There have been several studies about the possibility of habitable planets orbiting black hole beyond the event horizon, so the idea is not all too far-fetched.

[@jaquiring]

This video made me wonder… what if WE were the civilization placed into a “bubble” separated from the rest of the universe.

[@willyreeves319]

like most paradoxes the solution is realizing the premise is flawed. the universe is not ancient yet, it's in its infancy. Earth like planets have only been able to form for perhaps 8 billion years, which is a long long time for a human, but not for the processes that are required for life to develop to industrial levels and beyond. there are several elements that if vastly more abundant would make life equally more likely. those elements are measured in parts per billion currently. in another 50 or 100 billion years - toward the end of the star formation era - elements like phosphorus will be common enough that life would likely form on every planet in its stars habitable zone and survive (or reemerge)

[@tinfoilhatnews7489]

Isaac sounds like Sheldon Coopers enemy Dr Kripke. So yeah I am hooked on this awesome video.

[@EminMastizada]

What if at one point, civilizations are finding access to the simulation source code/properties and loose will to discover/explore after getting knowledge about everything in this universe?

[@entropy11]

my hidey civilization just posts up in the gulfs between galaxies where you have to know exactly where to look to even have a chance at detecting them. You have to relocate before you can ever be hidden.

[@injunsun]

ISAAC, a suggestion for a species fleeing destruction from an antagonistic species, taking from Paul McCartney and Wings, "Man on the Run." You know the late 1970s song. That would have been a precious Easter egg in the BSG reboot, had someone thought to put that in somehow, as they did having a janitor whistling the original BSG theme song as he mopped in one episode. Gods, I am so old... I still want one of those flying motorcycles from the original series, when Boomer and hawt af Starbuck were on 1970s Earth. Then dude had to ruin the fantasy by playing the superficial "Face" in "The A-Team." 🙄 I still want to know what happened to that poor girl who became the first Cylon in the reboot miniseries, "Caprica." She felt like a niece to me, and also, gave me hope, wishing I could join her, and be uploaded into a machine body, my mind forever intact. Being a disabled human sucks. Unfortunately, so far, all I have are titanium hips.

[@cjshenesky4912]

Imo a civilization built on fear and wanting to be hidden from others wouldn't make it interplanetary as the mental sanity of the civilization constantly trying to hide would cause mass paranoia

[@MrJero85]

Niven's Puppeteers might say otherwise.

[@benmorgan59]

this channel is by far one of my favorites behind Skippy62Able HAVE A GOOD DAY

[@AndrewManook]

lol

[@arlandoamb6754]

Isaac you are the G.O.A.T these videos are always so good thanks Bro 👏🏿👏🏿👍🏿

[@danlavoie3189]

For civilizations on the run, I like the title Exodus Aliens.

[@alecsmith3448]

What if some civilization, immensely advanced yet incapable of ftl, blasted our galaxy with supernova pumped lazers millions of years ago in order to eliminate any potential competition for the sleeper ships which will arive any day now? It is a bit of a stretch since the only extinction event that could have been caused by space radiation happened 350 million years ago.

[@jtburtt]

This is the first video that I received a notification on this year for this channel. I'm sub'd and have notifications turned on. Event Horizon had a poll up recently asking the same question. I've had to visit the channel to see new vids, anyone else? Excellent content,

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

It's been a real problem, for us and a lot of other channels.

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Okay, so about Game Theory: it can handle any amount of players and possible decisions, but very quickly, they become things that don't fit into neat stories and require NASA computers to process. Also, GT doesn't necessarily predict human behavior, but the behavior of a perfectly rational psychopath or a machine that protected itself before flowing the other two of Isaac's Laws. It is a tool to find the option which will minimize negative utility regardless of what other players choose. I think it's a very good tool, but behavioral economics, evolutionary psychology, and systems theory are the 4 tools I use when trying to predict human behavior and I'm right more often than not, but that's just it, isn't it. Life isn't chess or poker; you don't know how big the board is, how many pieces are in play, how many players are in play, where you pieces are, or what will happen when you move to capture a piece. Hell, your piece could tell you to fuck off and make the other pawn move instead. Human brains are fun.

[@jacksoncrocker7043]

The movie you're talking about at 15:30 exists! "Moon (2009)", really good movie

[@futurehistory2110]

Another hypothetical solution is that not only are alien civilizations incredibly rare but within a millennia of industrializing, they can develop the technology to escape to another universe and go to one that is uninhabited for safety reasons. Thus signals from alien civilizations would be rare in numbers and the timeframe for which they are put out there.

[@20firebird]

“I’m not afraid of being alone in the forest and being snuck up on my some bigger, unknown predator, because I’m a human, and we’re the nastiest, most dangerous animals in the jungle.” I get that it’s a metaphor, but Isaac, I think your bravado is a bit unearned 😆

[@Rattus-Norvegicus]

Well he is ex military, so maybe not so unearned?

[@greenrocket23]

Most military personnel would be less than worthless in a jungle survival scenario, you overestimate the average enlisted soldier's ability to survive

[@Rattus-Norvegicus]

@@greenrocket23 No but the implication was that he isn't just a pudgy soft-spoken sci-fi fan. Presumably he was taught some basic survival skills and also I'm pretty sure he was talking in more general terms.

[@atlas1173]

Wooo new SFIA! Thanks for the quality content

[@dgw4049]

Best course of action is to grow stronger while staying as quiet as possible and keeping a watchful eye.

[@fourtwentyist]

IA:Aliens might be mean, hateful and just want to kill us for existing also Isaac: Humans are basically the blood god khornes perfect children they already rest atop a throne of death and skulls, who wants some