The FGC Esports Dream is Dead.

[@ZolPsyko]

Around the 8:00 mark I think with Fighting games, which a lot of ppl are missing is that even at a base level, they're not intuitive to play. Most games you point and click, jump, press a button to shoot, and you go from there. A majority of people can't even do a hadouken. It's very different from other video games and, at first, doesn't feel very good to play.

[@zaknotkyle]

As a fighting game content creator/video essayist myself, you put it into better words than I ever could. This is an incredible video and you've gained a new sub, my guy.

[@ScrappySensei]

Thank you so much for watching, and good luck on your work as well!

[@gregorymirabella1423]

I hope fighting games stay as they are, getting bigger is usually a bad thing for games.

[@MundoSD]

HELL YEAH WE STAYING POVERTY BABY! But hard agree on better content; during big tournaments it was easy to get my coworkers hooked with how all the action of a fighting game being on screen. But during the dead time in between having vtubers stumble through any of theme isn't going to keep people hooked for long.

[@ScrappySensei]

A bit late but, when I said that Crazy Raccoon cup was going to have more viewer than EVO 2023 I was fully expecting to be wrong. I wasn't, but EVO got pretty close.

[@Hydronin47]

Great vid scrappy and I hope it blows up, it's definitely obvious how esports is doing when orgs are dissolving and overwatch is paying teams to not join the league lol. I do think the fgc is better off being grassroots and I think it's clear when it comes to commentary. My favorite fgc moments are when something was so hype that mics peaked or something like the wombo combo. with orgs trying so hard to stay family friendly(due to sponsors I guess) it's hard to ever get moments like that on commentary again

[@sofistdecaydead]

Very anti-esports here. The main thing I support is the Self-Sufficiency of the FGC. This allows for an indepedence not possible in esports, with their mortal dependence on corporations. Chances are this independence is strangely alluring to mainstream creators, but attempting to bring some of them in might paradoxically turn them off. You can only be so accomodating, so I think its best to let them admire from a distance. The FGC is a complex beast that only grew in complexity post-shoryuken forums, then again post-pandemic. I really don't want to see the death of things like Fightcade, which are necessary for Esports like growth in FG's.

[@akpunk1666]

the FGC enduring the pandemic while e-sports failed shows the difference between grassroots and astroturfing

[@Sanryuji]

Just saw the video and i love it. it's kinda weird that we the FGC are not e-sports and yet we are the foundation what e-sports today. You my friend just earn a new subscriber

[@brooklynballer2455]

kinda off topic I wish events were advertised more or had a way of notifying people that its coming up. If youre in the loop you know when an events coming up but even then you dont where its being streamed unless you have twitter or follow the right people. A tournament like combo breaker which is being streamed on a bunch of random channels will never get high viewership because most people wont know where to watch what they want. I live outside of the US so mainly the majors are the ones i catch live but I hear other tournaments pass by and I wonder "why tf didn't i know about it or see it?" The problem with the grassroots approach is you have to be in the circle to know whats happening. I know lots of people that enjoy watching FGs but only know when EVOs on.

[@ScrappySensei]

I agree with you 100%, smaller tournaments are really bad at telling people where they are, and when. It's pretty silly because almost every tournament wants to grow and get new people but only advertises to other fighting game players and not also people not in the fgc who have an interest in fighting games. Honestly it part few know that they need to, part because it's easier, and part advertising is hard, which is a bad combo.

[@idontslideidrift9857]

yes bro i feel u it's kinda frustrating, i had no interest in fighting games a few months prior and it is hard to get fully into the fgc loving it though

[@SolidusRay]

Extremely well put together video, loved every second of it. Clear so much thought was put into each topic and the best way to weave all the thoughts together. I think the "FGC Superpowers" moniker works so well and makes too much sense.

[@remuvs]

I agree that maybe esports isn't the right route for the FGC. Fighting games are the kind of thing where it's at its best when the players and tournaments can bring out the spirit of the FGC; play hard, but goof around too. Stuff like: - Pokchop goofing around with his boys while fighting RealLaw in Tekken (#NoRoundBrown) - Yipes roasting people and making funny analogies while on commentary - Gobou acting like a supervillain and being a goofball - Oniisan and Poongko going shirtless for the hell of it are things people love and treasure from the FGC. It'll be a shame for that to be less common if the FGC becomes more franchised and sterile like shooters and MOBAs.

[@Kirbster-kq9vz]

Only 700 views?! This needs more for the quality!

[@aaronsound]

Very impressed by the video, thanks a lot!

[@ScrappySensei]

Glad you like it, thank you for watching

[@ZawaOnYoutube]

I gotta say I hard agree with saying learning SF is harder than learning Valorant. Once you learn where your keys are, and get a general vibe of WASD movement, then there's really what else to learn? Cursor placement? I mean yeah there's deeper metagame shit beyond that, but for a brand new player, that's their experience. For fighters, you gotta learn so much more. Yeah you can just move around and use your buttons just like in Val, but for you to get anywhere, you have to know which buttons link together to make combos, and that's not even including the absolute hell that is learning what's plus and what's minus. See, in a shooter, we just shoot at each other. It's entirely simultaneous and symmetrical. In a fighter, there's turns, and you need a good understanding of when to take your turn back. On top of all that, if you're a brand new player in Val, there's thousands upon thousands of shitters for you to climb the ranks through as you learn the game. In Guilty Gear Strive, for one example, there's a tower where it's a straight shot into a plateau if you can't break into Celestial floor. You are just hardstuck forever. It would be like if Val made it really really easy for everyone to get to Diamond and then let everyone suffer there minus the select few.

[@fruitsnacks3281]

Damn this video is a trip looking at the landscape now. Fgc is getting huge and on top where esports is dying still. Big sponsors and such pulled out where the fgc still growing. We out here bb

[@GlenSwan]

Great video Scrappy! I wanted to throw out my 2 cents. The first esporting event wasn't from fighting games. You cannot ignore arcades. They are video games, they had tournaments, they were in the 1980's. One of the first arcade tournaments, arguably the first sign of electronic sporting, was won by a trans women in the 1980 National Space Invaders Championship. Majority of the reason why esports had failed is because of what you said. The consumers are not really buying into the offline aspect of the sport (e.g.: filling venues). They are also not really buying into the byproducts of the sport too. Making sponsorships pull money out because they are not able to show solid ROI on monies spent. Instead, more money is being filter into online activities (e.g.: streaming/social media) that directly goes into the pros pocket. Until someone can make a good esporting event watchable both offline and online like Fifa or replicate what major sports have done like the NFL, NBA, and NHL has in esports, things will be pretty screwed. On the question of what is keeping the FGC from reaching the levels is well, the FGC. Looking at what I am doing right now. I have opened the first esports bar in NC that is specifically focused on the FGC. We have had great support for a good amount of the player community. Coming out to the bar, participating in the events, and giving feedback. Yet, even today, we are still struggling to attract a good majority of the FGC leadership because of political reasons. We have an entire venue, FREE OF USE, for the FGC leadership. Until the homegrown community can get over whatever political issues there are community-to-community and work together, it's going to extremely hard.

[@TheMixedPlateFrequency]

This is an awesome video. Good stuff.

[@stargazeanthem]

so so so so good dude

[@alyasVictorio]

24:16 Woah! I'm fan of Korone tho-

[@vakistania]

Great video in general, but I have some issues with the core problems stated. Isn't the FGC growing every year? Aren't there several dozens of great FGC documentaries and essays out there as well as weekly entertaining tournaments streamed such as Salt Mine, TNS and Can Opener? Is there actually any reason to emulate esports, other than making more money? I agree that it is important to reach a bigger audience, but as said the FGC is growing at its own natural pace rather than forcing itself like Overwatch did. The FGC is so accessible because it is grassroots, as a nobody I can technically go to a fighting game event and play a match against a legend like J Wong or even Tokido if they happen to be there. I would not want to sacrifice this feeling of being in the same world as the top players just to get what? Bigger stadiums where we sit and bang glowing sticks together to show that we are hype? Give me a conference center with rinkydink plastic chairs and people screaming their lungs out because the match they are watching is actually hype, not artificially created hype like e-sports.

[@ScrappySensei]

Nah, I agree with you, and my point is that we shouldn’t pursue esports, just take some of the parts that can make grassroots better and leave the rest. Grassroots' slow growth, and sincerity is what makes the FGC good and will make it outlast esports. Esports long sold thier sincerity for money.

[@nuclearpancake3683]

This video is so underrated for a very good video

[@deebee3867]

not sure what industry you worked in that gave you insight but there are so many people in the FGC that are literally "esports" that your whiny nonsense comes off like a tourist trying to speak a language they dont understand. how does your logic work if the "grassroots people" are the same exact people that help make sure the events are tournament-quality? do you know how much work Alex Valle and Rick Thiher have done for EVO and through events like ComboBreaker and SCR?

[@Skyline_OW]

I think you missed the point. He defined esports early on as the franchise model. Alex Valle isn't exactly the type to go seek tens of millions in VC money to just build a giant spectacle out of nowhere, in fact as far as I've ever heard him talk he is very much a slow-growth steady grassroots person - essentially the opposite of esports as Scrappy defines it in his video (and good luck getting investor money with a deck about slow, sustainable growth lmao.) Mincing words over what exactly esports means isn't really the point, the point is that competitive gaming and large tournaments can exist without a deeply centralized and curated arrangement the likes of LCS and is historically better off. Competition is not inherently "esports" as it is understood in mainstream media. Of course the burning issue is that at the end of the day a company owns the game people are playing, meaning there will always be a central authoritarian power in esports which is a huge challenge. Imagine if FIFA literally owned the rights to soccer. How utterly horrifying would that be? That's basically the inevitable long-term fate of any esport when looking long into the future.

[@cinamynj]

I feel unconvinced, since the argument is: “esports doesn’t work because the people behind it are idiots.” When you bring up wrestling, WWE also started from humble beginnings with the same venue every single week. They didn’t go to some venture capitalist so they could start booking arenas around North America. A grassroots group could just as much promote themselves up into an “esport” with the spectacle and branding.

[@drlemon7729]

7:18 hard disagree. That is only true if you're talking about the skill ceiling not skill floor. It's only getting much better with newer gen games like sf6 and the likes. But try handing a casual counter strike and guilty gear x and see which one they get how to play organically. Most people immediately know how to move a character on a keyboard, point the mouse to shoot, and use cover to avoid damage, most people also can't do a quarter circle input on a controller

[@danger2236]

I clicked on this video thinking, ‘there’s no way in hell this random internet guy knows what he’s talking about’ and ended not just pleasantly surprised, but also agreeing with most things, especially when it comes to what the fgc needs to do forward. I never thought about how most fgc content is (politely speaking) bottom of the barrel slop which has value from when you see it to when you stop watching it, I think rather than taking that as an insult it should really be advice to say to do something different. A channel I love is Brian_F but he is a prime example of the type of content the fgc needs less of (except for his tutorial and news vids, which actually lay things out very cleanly) mostly gameplay without much information on what he’s doing or why, if you want to gain something from watching it, you’ll have to pay close attention to the interactions

[@Shodan130]

the comment about the game patch hits the nail on the head. i cant even feel excited about a fighting game anymore as you know the devs are going to change it for the sake of player retention. a patch that fixes issues will be less cared about than a patch that changes the game. because it's new as you said. sometimes this can be for the better with SF5 which i would say is better now than it was. but the dark side of this is games like Tekken 7 . on launch T7 was great. bar akuma everyone felt functional and viable. the best characters were drag and jack who are fairly fundamental honest characters. in the modern day. the balance is all over the place. to a point where one would not be laughed at for thinking the team was trying to kill the game so everyone moves onto the sequel. which leads to the other problem with E-sports. it creates a FOMO feeling in players that they have to play the new thing. you see this with people foaming at the mouth about how bad SF6 or T8 is. which back in the day. if you didn't like the newer game you would just play what you did like. when 3rd strike was new many players stuck to alpha or super turbo. when tekken 4 came out the VAST majority of players stuck to tag. esports inherantly gets players to go all in on a game they may not like due to not wanting to be left out at events or the current online discourse or even if they do like the game. a game that might degrade due to desperate attempts by devs at player retention

[@Silverado-pq6xe]

Tbf capcom said they only want 1 balance patch per year as to not have exactly what you’re talking about happen

[@Fenryin]

Mandatory comment for the algorithm gods!

[@ssbVanilla]

hey i have a question about going to fgc events, how do people who want game audio use headphones? do i need to buy some splitter, do people only plug into their controllers, what if my fightstick doesnt have a 3.5mm?

[@ScrappySensei]

Good question, depending on the setup I would recommend you plug into the monitor, as pluging into the controller can do some weird things from time to time. I would also recommend getting a spliter because headphone users are not uncommon so getting a good spliter can avoid sound disputes, and majors like to use bad spliters so having your own just in case is a good idea.

[@Majik202_]

great watch. seeing this video on the same day I threw out a big NALCS poster... i used to think esports was the future of gaming, but I didn't know how much capitalism got it's grubby little paws in it. proud to be a part of the FGC now

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

20:32 it's very subjective but I find sf and kof very boring to watch. Why mbaacc, gg and bb are so much more interesting but they are hard two watch

[@oof5992]

Fire Emblem Fates Revelations

[@PijamaKing]

Riot's fighting game will be an esport

[@thousandstar]

Oh this was spicy ... I like it

[@heardofrvb]

With recent controversies like Skullgirls and MK1 Tanya, that climb back to greatness became more slippeey than ever.

[@vakistania]

These controversies only exist on twitter, resetera, kotaku etc. Americans being so invested and neurotic over moral panics and inclusivity that they make a hen out of a feather. Unless you are talking about the sexual misconduct allegations from some years ago of course, that stuff is an ACTUAL controversy, not just people complaining online.

[@Supersmallpig]

It is just base on different people's different logic. My first ESPORT tournament is EVO and fighting game always base on human against human it naturally is ESPORT.

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

8:27 not necessary. If you look at the modern popular esports they are mods for single player games. Single player is perfect for teaching. And it's only fighting games devs to blame that the only games with proper single player is mk and recently released sf6

[@winstong7438]

❤

[@ashtinoak]

Ummm they just had a million dollar tournament 😂😂😂

[@MrJazzPurr27]

A few tournaments

[@Real-Name..Maqavoy]

Another *Nothing Burger.. (within FGC)* This is why we cant have Nice Things.

[@dgundz]

good video overall

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

14:33 cool and all but how do you explain cs?

[@ghostlymilk13]

esports sucks (im the one who totally kept chanting that shit infront of this guy everytime i see him at locals. love ya, buddy.)

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

19:58 easy to understand is overated

[@Dronlothen]

I really hate these blank screens between segments. They feel way too long and are bad transitions.

[@TJBlack3.5]

Damn bro, must've ruined the overall message of the video

[@TJBlack3.5]

I'm loyal to the FGC cause it relies on skill and doesn't rely on microtransactions to even keep the game alive lol

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

Cool, now buy the 3rd season pass

[@TJBlack3.5]

@@АртёмТор-к2юI don't play dlc characters, I main Kazuya

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

16:08 so was overwatch esports till establishment of owl or not?

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

20:02 no, they don't. A lot of people who try fighting games complain that they are too fast. And not all fighting games are too fast people just overwhelmed with information. I'll compqre it to tf2. The game is reletivle slow and clear but I still have problems following midfight

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

12:51 well fighting games are known to be sustainable. Wait why there was 2 time drop from 5k to 2.5 k from 1st to second year of sf5?

[@stanyel6646]

no melee D:

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

29:24 that's the problem cs faced. Almost all it's personalities are pros. And pros just want to play the game. Luckily new trend of skin streamers emerged but i honestly don't understand why people are so interested in skins

[@Not_cee]

We could have tht if da fgc put xenoverse in evo 3v3 we would have teams like the tournament of power problem solved. Amd naruto to boruto tht has 4v4

[@MeltyVampire]

You arent gonna tell me Valorant is easier than street fighter. one can be button mashed to success, the other requires extreme precision and reaction timing to be successful. I can win a street fighter match easily in 5 seconds just throw looping. Games like Valorant are way harder.

[@Anonymous25491]

1. Dev support 2. Remove Politics 3. TOs need to remove their elitist attitude, Without these 3 you will continue to alienate people and prevent more people from joining the scene.

[@FastJohn443]

Politics? Can you give examples?

[@blank-mq8ef]

​@@FastJohn443skull girls removing soviet announcer is the most recent one I can think of, or Brigets whole chat arc being ruined and turned into forced transition good to get representation points

[@jambott5520]

​@@blank-mq8efstay mad, trans people existing isn't politics, it's just people existing. If that is a) political and b) bad to you, then holy shit you just don't want trans people to exist. Or you just want them to forever remain out of sight and out of mind so you don't have to think about them, which is the same thing as the first thing but for cowards.

[@moopey123]

Wow….. you must be fun at parties……

[@blank-mq8ef]

@@moopey123 unironically people like this are more fun cus they wont tell you youre not allowed to make jokes cus they offend people

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

32:03 are you saying that cs, dota2 and tf2 are not esports because they don't fall under difinition fgc came up with?

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

26:31 that's a big logistics problem that can be very easily solved by having qualifications

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

14:32 this never happened to fighting games like street fight. * check notes* Street fighter 2 had only billion rereleases with relied on gimmick system changes. * checks notes again* and sf4 and 5 didn't have hole system added later with patches. I'm not adding ggst's wa as the latest adding because I'm not sure if it was out at the date of the video

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

20:41 storytelling is actually a week sife of fgc. Majority of story telling happens during the desk or bx commentators. First just doesn't exist and second are too busy by play by play, while colour commentators are rare

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

11:12 there is a good vidoo " thorin and maniac about counter Strike vs valorant" where thay discuss how to organize grassroots tuarnament and cs problems with is. So yes, if you are tier3-4 you are probably not getting cash

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

1:45 you have to do a lot of justification to make this analogy 2:00 and you failed to do so. Honestly impressive. Now let's look at the facts. What fighting games have or had direct developer's support? Street fighter, guilty gear, Tekken, mortal Kombat etc. Even skullgirls had skullgirls championship series. And now let's look at this evil corporate esports. CS had over a decade with no developers support at all. Lol was released in 2009. After a quick Google search we find out that the first championship was 2011. Two years later! Valorant had only 1 tournament in the first year. Now compare it to street fighter or guilty gear and realize how much developers support fgc

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

3:39 no, not at all. You are showing overwatch. When was owl esteblished? In 2018 game came out in 2016. It was famous for not having a lot of microtransaction. They even release ow2 to add microtransaction into the game. Also i don't remember any developer's support in two years between release date and owl start. But I can be wrong on that one

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

31:44 no, eleague made it to tv. And then fgc was unhappy about it so it's no longer on tv

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

11:53 it's kind of sad that fgc isn't the love for the game but the way sphere is runned

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

18:25 btw Richard Lewis has a very interesting series where he covers overwatch problems

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

15:48 wait wait wait. You are too based for fgc. Fgc is to self-centered to believe that fighting games are more party games than they are competitive games

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

11:50 that's one of the biggest lies that's fgc keeps repeating just to cope for it's failures. Having an invitational now and then does suddenly make the game not grassroots. But fgc not smart enough to realize it

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

7:31 that's based and red-pilled. For some reason not a lot of fgc folks are willing to admit it

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

20:45 there is so much respect that I've heard more sexual assault scanals in fgc past 2 year that in last 20 years of cs

[@PinaPirata]

All of them coming from the smash community.

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

@@PinaPirata if only that was the truth

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

20:40 keeping the game alive also known as

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

4:33 ok you haven't done any googling whatsoever. There is a reason why lol slot owners complain about lack of profits. The situation is even worse for open circle games like CS or tf2

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

26:01 wow an actual good take. 26:17 And I thought for a second that I'll hear a good take. No, you dont need to market competition. Share of viwers is already extremely high for fighting games. For example: ggst had 2,5 mil players. It had peek online for last evo in 250k. That's 10%. It's actually huge! What I'm saying that fighting games should be marketed better. Majin obama goes indepth on ggst success and he attributes it to marketing strategy at large. And he somehow got hate for that.

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

12:41 esports is a bubble. It's not a discussion. But don't you thing that going full fgclike is also bad? It severaly hearts the longevity of the game. You need to have a pipeline of talante but also money to support them. A lot of games are a lot like work, requirimg full day of practice. And field are so competitive it happens not for tier1 but at tier3 or 4. So these guys not only not getting no money they also don't get social and job skill needed and success is not even guaranteed

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

16:58 can we apply same logic to fight games? No? no. 😢

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

12:50 ofc not every esports will stay. We live in capitalism. But same will stay for longer like cs or lol. Because they had massive cultural impact

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

31:23 and you don't need to. Cs, quake, starkaft already showed you that

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

22:32 now let's look at the age of esports. How can they all be 8-10 years old

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

22:22 maybe bacause nobody else plays on arcade machines?

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

27:39 I was going to say that only roit does it but then you reminded me that blizzard also done it😂. And then you show cod, aka most casual fps game ever. Yes I know it has a league but you jsut don't became an esport by making a developer's supported league

[@1llsilk]

Fighting games arent harder than any other games....proceeds to explain my fighting games are harder...gtfoh

[@dj_koen1265]

They really arent harder though Outside of the motion inputs there is nothing about fighting games that makes them harder than other games And once you get good with the motion inputs they arent really a barrier to entry anymore The biggest problem is that motion inputs suck on controller which prevent a lot of people from getting into it

[@gregorymirabella1423]

They aren't harder.

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

4:03 use some common sense. Nobody watched lol and said: "wow it's so cool". They said " wtf is going on?"

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

9:26 fgc grassroots is indeed like wrestling. Fake and broke