The First "Ghost of Kyiv" - Vietnam Super Ace "Colonel Tomb"

50 years before "The Ghost of Kyiv" was another mysterious fighter ace known as "Colonel Tomb", the terror of the skies over Vietnam...or did either of them actually exist?
Dr. Mark Felton is a well-known British historian, the author of 22 non-fiction books, including bestsellers 'Zero Night' and 'Castle of the Eagles', both currently being developed into movies in Hollywood. In addition to writing, Mark also appears regularly in television documentaries around the world, including on The History Channel, Netflix, National Geographic, Quest, American Heroes Channel and RMC Decouverte. His books have formed the background to several TV and radio documentaries. More information about Mark can be found at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fe...
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Disclaimer: All opinions and comments expressed in the 'Comments' section do not reflect the opinions of Mark Felton Productions. All opinions and comments should contribute to the dialogue. Mark Felton Productions does not condone written attacks, insults, racism, sexism, extremism, violence or otherwise questionable comments or material in the 'Comments' section, and reserves the right to delete any comment violating this rule or to block any poster from the channel.
Credits: US National Archives; Library of Congress

[@drewpooters62]

I am helping a Middle School history teacher by linking your various episodes to various lessons to help these kids who have learning issues, and it helps to clarify history for many of these kids, and it ignites further interest in what they are NOT being taught...thank you Dr. Felton! USAF SECURITY POLICE 1982-1997.

[@davidleitch2298]

10?. In fairness, I've NEVER seen a conflict in history generate so many lies and manipulative misinformation by BOTH sides. For all we know there were none or double that figure

[@srj607able]

I'm raiding my fridge when I hear the intro song . My spouse has put nazi German defenses arround our US made fridge. Her diet doctrine is unacceptable. And males in my family are having covert operations for more sausages, beers, hams, Ceasars salads. The fight is ruthless and speechless... many unopened beers got into sinks genocide. I'm fighting on, my commandos are too. Diet is an utopia problem for a common sense thinking. Only marines helps... not their spouses

[@EminiMagic]

That's great, hopefully you rescued some young people from the indoctrination the ALLIES were or are "the GOOD GUYS"

[@zyrabell69]

@@srj607able Very funny and witty! I can only guess that your wife is doing it for your health because she loves you. Dieting isn't easy, hence the root word is "die."

[@justice3188]

Great work

[@WAL_DC-6B]

So "The Ghost of Kyiv" was a phony in the end. Thanks for setting the record straight!

[@danrayha3756]

If you are in the US, everything you're hearing is phony.

[@AlwaysAC]

This was known from the first day by almost anyone paying attention. In fact it was mostly reported as being false in the first instance by independent media and even most mainstream media. However, it’s been a great propaganda victory for the Russian forces, as any incidence of them taking losses is now greeted with “oh yeah just like the ghost of Kiyv right?”. Interesting how these things play out.

[@brentfellers9632]

The first casualty of war is the truth.

[@laurikotivuori1585]

Setting the record straight? Fairly sure Ukraine's airforce was the one to do that

[@WAL_DC-6B]

@@laurikotivuori1585 And Mark Felton passed on that "record straight" information via his KZbin channel.

[@TheLeadSled]

My father flew F-105's into North Vietnam early in the war. He told me they feared the sam's more than the enemy fighters, although he did say they could be just as nasty. His best friend was shot down by a sam, my father had a close call against a Mig 19 but thankfully he was able to turn an burn back to base.

[@douglasjones2570]

Bless you both.

[@JoeOvercoat]

Lots of SAMs. Not so many fighters.

[@TheLeadSled]

@@JoeOvercoat my father told me on bombing runs they could see them being unloaded from ships in Haiphong Harbor and they could not do anything about it. What aggravated the 105 pilots was those same Sam's being unloaded would soon be shooting them down. That entire war was a fiasco, you had LBJ and McNamara running the show from 10,000 miles away, they were sending men like my father into battle with both hands tied behind their backs, what a mess and 58,000 plus died because of it.

[@UnsungAces]

@@TheLeadSled that's why you don't start a war in another country for no reason, too bad your father wasn't shot down, S-75 go brrrr

[@donalddodson7365]

@@TheLeadSled I pray your father is well, now, living in Peace with the mess. The image of a Viet Cong mortar crew setting up on our position during the phony "christmas truce" 1969 is seared into my psyche! Later, we saw body bags being unloaded from Medevac choppers. I wondered if that mortar was really a booby trap to zap the Rapid Reaction Force sent out to interrupt the VC.

[@khanhonam7196]

in Vietnam we have another fighter pilot that shot down the first b-52 with his mig-21 that has the name very close to Colonel Tomb, his name is Pham Tuan (or Toon)

[@MyHentaiGirlNeko]

Nah, this Tomb is a fictional ace made up by US airman to make their job look more dangerous and earn more respect for having to deal with this monster "Ace pilot" The Yankee wouldn't praise us like that truthfully lol, remember? They said that most of our pilot are Russian pilot lol So i doubt they would take us highly those prick

[@astoronnyp2476]

that guy despite of being real deserved a separate legend en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ph%E1%BA%A1m_Tu%C3%A2n

[@Mark95876]

Did Pham Tuan shoot down any Phan toms? ;-)

[@billm2078]

It's is funny after all these years how Viet Nam and the USA now have a very strong relationship.

[@MyHentaiGirlNeko]

@@billm2078 thanks to the big c*nt up North, enemy of my enemy you know

[@MrIdasam]

I've studied this subject on and off for years. In my younger years, I even painted a picture of the dogfight between “Cunningham” and “Tomb”. Thank you so much for this upload. I appreciate all of your uploads. Great channel.

[@ZER0ZER0SE7EN]

After the Viet Nam War Randy "Duke" Cunningham was a Top Gun instructor at Miramar NAS. He served several terms in Congress representing a part of San Diego. He pled guilty to taking bribes from military contractors, leading to 8 years imprisonment. He was conditionally pardoned in January of last year.

[@MrIdasam]

@@ZER0ZER0SE7EN Yeah, I read about that. It's too bad.

[@murrayterry834]

and nothing happens to nancy pelosi or the cheneys. times changed.

[@tjb.7213]

@@murrayterry834 so true. Look into who's all children are employed by Ukraine energy industry. The only reason the left gives 2 shits about Ukraine is if the Russians win they will be able to produce undeniable evidence of hunters corruption and blow pipeline to his nose.

[@nelsonzambrano5788]

Can you please share the picture? Where can we find it?

[@dzungtran314]

General Tuan (Toon) Pham was the first name that came to mind when I heard this myth. Although Tuan did not score as many kills as Coc, he was credited with the first B52 kill by a Mig 21 and became a local celebrity. He later became the first Vietnamese astronaut. Tuan is also a common first name in Vietnamese, I would imagine it showed up on radio frequency a lot.

[@littlefinger8370]

phạm tuân ?

[@Farweasel]

Subsequently giving rise to the ever popular quiz on US Forces Radio at the time ......... 'Name that Tune'? 🙄

[@traaotuong6107]

His name is Phạm Tuân and actually Tuân is not that really a common name in Vietnam. The common "Tuan" you mentioned is actually Tuấn.

[@AngelitoTAzor]

First Vietnamese astronaut???

[@joshuanishanthchristian5217]

@@AngelitoTAzor The Russians had an outreach programme called Interkosmos that trained astronauts from many friendly countries, like Vietnam, and put them in space. Even several Western countries like France and the UK put their first astronauts in space on Interkosmos rockets. Other countries like India and Japan that have their own highly developed space systems also used Interkosmos to get their first astronauts in orbit.

[@jimmyhoffa1905]

They had a mig at space camp in Alabama with his number painted on it. They also had the F4 that was featured in dogfights and the F14 used in some top gun shots, as well as an original v2 rocket and blackbird spy plane. Best museum ever

[@guillermoelenes7252]

Where are you Jimmy. people are looking fo ryou.

[@StaceyIsles]

What was the museum name?

[@airborneace]

I attended Aviation Challenge in Huntsville and have a photo of my class posing in front of that F-14

[@thelordofcringe]

Come check out the Udvar Hazy Center, it's basically the real Air and Space Museum because they can't fit anything in the one in DC. It's about 30 minutes south of DC, has a Blackbird, a Space Shuttle, like 20 jets, and dozens of warplanes and civilian planes. It also has several Nazi jet planes and their rocket interceptor. It has the only Ho 229 as well, although it's currently in 3 pieces and under a big tarp.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

@@StaceyIsles If it's Alabama it'll probably be the "Aloebamma Aerplain & Spase Moosium" 😆

[@dangle933]

I remember a Discovery documentary about this Col. Toon back in the 90'es. Amazing that Dr. Felton is taking it up now.

[@Farweasel]

Its the anniversary innit?

[@siler7]

'90s.

[@ianmurray4081]

I had the pleasure to spend an afternoon with a South Vietnamese “ bird dog “ pilot. Very fascinating and greatly pleased when I sent along a built model of his plane. Apparently, he cried out in excitement, “ My plane! I missed you!”. Which brought over another old gent, who was a pilot in the day. They made friends and “ fly in formation “ to the sunroom to talk about their respective first loves. Cheers 🍻, take care and keep up the great work.

[@tuanpham-xf3hj]

I never thought Dr.Felton will make a video about Vietnam airforce, this is also the first time i have hear about this super ace pilot. In Vietnam, we oftern know Nguyễn Văn Cốc as you mention, is the best pilot with 9 kill confirm, but the most famous name in Vietnam is Nguyễn Văn Bảy another ace pilot with 7 kill, because the media make several documentary and interview about his life (don't know why they choose him, but i guess most ace pilot have die because of old age) he must leaving school when he was 9 and can't use bicycle, but he still become and ace. When the war end Bảy return to be a farmer. We also have several documentary about some US pilot came to Vietnam only to meet him. Anyway another great job delivery to us by Dr.Felton.

[@buikhai204]

Because he was farmer and all kills he flied in out of dated MIG 17, which used gun only. Highly skills if gun only

[@willc1294]

An unpleasant experience being a US combat pilot and surprised from behind by Coc.

[@donalddodson7365]

@tuan pham I am often grieved thinking how the United States could have responded differently to Ho Chi Minh after WWI and WWII. As I reflect upon the American War in Vietnam, especially knowing Premiere Minh was well read and had respect for our Nationalist hero Thomas Jefferson. Rather than allow France to reclaim colonies in Indochina and Africa, the US could have championed an independent Vietnam. May Peace be with you.

[@captintinsmith3774]

@@donalddodson7365 Yep! All Historical facts! Refreshing to read a comment from a fellow erudite....

[@markrook6085]

Nguyen Van Bay also led the first,and only,aerial bombing attack on a US Navy ship since WW2. Van Bay and his wingman (name escapes me) we’re trained by a Cuban pilot named “Ernesto”, who had been trained in ship attacks by the Soviet Navy. On April 19, 1972, Van Bay and his wingman took off in two MiG 17’s, and headed to Yankee Station in the Gulf, each carrying a 500 lb. bomb. I think Van Bay’s bomb hit USS Oklahoma City, the other guy attacked USS Higbee. One deck gun was completely destroyed, but little other material damage was done. It certainly gave the North a morale boost. The US Navy prefers to pretend it didn’t happen, as you might expect. Not their proudest moment, as the two Vietnamese pilots remained largely undetected, flying low over the waves. As for Col. “Toon” /“Tomb”….. no, those aren’t Vietnamese names. But “Thuan” (pron. “ton”) is a very common name in Vietnam. It may have come from one of the VPAF’s leading aces, Pham Tuan…who shot down a B 52 from his MiG 21 during Linebacker Two, in December’72. Tuan later flew into space with the Russians in the 80’s, becoming Vietnam’s first astronaut. Nguyen Van Bay ended up a bit of a hippie, growing his hair and beard like Bac Ho, and buying a farm in the South, where he became Vietnam’s leading proponent of sustainable, organic agriculture, before passing in 2017(?) or so….. What’s really crazy is how long the criminally convicted, corrupt politician known as Congressman Randall “Duke” Cunningham got away with his story about downing “North Vietnam’s Greatest Ace”, on May 10, ‘72. Even the History Channel’s “Dogfights” series fell for it. But what do you expect from those amateurs???

[@jamesyeh364]

I met Randy Cunningham when I was in high school when he was still a congressman. He was sticking with his story of his final kill being Colonel Tomb. I was thrilled to meet a genuine jet ace and he later signed a book on MiG killers in Vietnam for me. I was disappointed by his fall from grace, but it doesn't change what he did during the war.

[@Jacmac1]

Yeah, he was a great pilot and a true war hero. Finding out how corrupt he and his wife were was pretty hard, he was my rep in Congress. Nobody saw it coming, even though his staffers knew for a long time about the bribe menu.

[@PKS02]

A war criminal and murderer, among all his Vietnam vet war criminal friends.

[@Beemer917]

Sure it does. It erases everything he did in the war. He is no longer a Navy ace, only a ex convict and a traitor to our country.

[@expandedhistory]

I’m so glad you touched on this topic Dr. Felton. Not many people know the story of Colonel Tomb but his story is absolutely fascinating that every person who indulges in History would love.

[@brunotonyoli9408]

I’m just glad the ghost was finally confirmed fake by their own govt. Imagine the other crap media picks up and runs with

[@oddballsok]

"his" story ?? a fake person's story ??

[@user-hu7lw4le1k]

Just a correction: " his story is absolutely fascinating that every person who indulges in History Channel would love"

[@user-hu7lw4le1k]

@@oddballsok YES IT INVOLVES FIGHTER JETS AND AMERICA. COOL AMERICAN JETS KILLING BAD GUYS LIKE TOP GUN IS THE ONLY HISTORY I CARE ABOUT

[@user-hu7lw4le1k]

@@oddballsok and please remember. @Expanded History is a professional history channel.

[@dyveira]

The US performance in the air war in Vietnam pre-1972 was what led to the formation of the real-life TOPGUN program. Both Cunningham and Driscoll were TOPGUN graduates.

[@gregoryemmanuel9168]

Mark, this too is so interesting and timely, impeccably researched and presented. Thank you 🙏🏼

[@Farweasel]

Mark's video is as excellent and timely as ever but What the hell is your banana & two blue plums icon supposed to represent - Or is it impolite to ask?

[@anthonyferreira9059]

And also the videos excerpts he presents are the real videos of the described subject

[@bobcosmic]

In the building to listen to Mark Felton as he covers another subject that other historians cannot reach !

[@the5thmusketeer215]

SO GLAD to witness the rapid & sustained growth of your Channel, Mark. I remember when your subscriber base numbered in the Tens of Thousands & remarking that your painstaking research, fascinatingly eclectic choice of wartime material & the excellence of your Historical research & very clear narration of it, really deserved a MUCH larger viewership….. To see you grow so quickly into a subscriber base that currently stands at 1.67 Million is VERY gratifying indeed & THOROUGHLY WELL DESERVED in every respect. 😊👍

[@richardcastle3204]

Great content as ever, Dr Felton. Once again, you've shone a light on an aspect of military history that would otherwise have passed me by. Thank you for doing what you do.

[@jonclassical2024]

My daughters Father-in-law flew tankers in Vietnam and he believes Col. Tomb was an amalgamation of successful VPAF pilots. Another friend of mine who flew helicopters in Vietnam believes the same. I had a draft number in 1971 to go, but Nixon and Kissinger ended it all. Another solid vlog Dr. Felton, always enjoy your efforts!!!

[@chingchang4227]

Mark Felton videos are one of the purest things on earth , god bless this man

[@BRANFED]

always love your well balanced and factual videos dr. felton. always informative and historically accurate

[@fuferito]

What I love most about this channel is that it provides a meeting place for all (in this case American and Vietnamese) to compare notes about their own experience on the topic which, I notice, people mostly do in an extremely civil tone.

[@jerryle379]

Both side country pilot of the war meet up every year pre COVID , not much video about the meeting post by american but there some video you can find post by our tv channel vtv4 and some vietnamese American show the meeting in america , really interest stuff

[@ronrobertson59]

The F-4 originally didn't even have a gun on it believing gun combat was obsolete. That changes pretty fast.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

The Phantom still scored the vast majority of kills by missile, with the addition of the gun not making much of a difference. Even the F-8, "the last gunfighter", claimed more kills by Sidewinder than by gun.

[@mcuddy799]

I believe the Israeli mirage jets in the 6 day war made good use of their guns.

[@grahamlucas2712]

@@mcuddy799 Whereas the 116 Mirage 3's including 16 2 seater trainers bought from the French 1963, and assembled in Australia never fired a shot in anger as, in the French Contract, we couldn't use them in any conflict the French didn't agree with. That included Vietnam.

[@apPaulpie]

tomorrow is my birthday, and low and behold "mark Felton productions" posted an interesting video that i didn't even know..... so this is a little treat for me tomorrow thank you for this knowledge sir

[@MarkFeltonProductions]

Happy birthday!

[@apPaulpie]

@@MarkFeltonProductions thank you sir

[@Gman-109]

2:30 You forgot to mention the F100, the Huns played a very large and vital role in the close air support of US troops particularly in the Southern part of the AO. I realize there are many other aircraft that would take to long to mention in your video, but the F100 certainly should count in your list here as there were hundreds of them operating in and around Vietnam throughout the earlier parts of the war. Great video - I still feel that a lot of the kills by "Tomb" were Soviet advisers flying, particularly in the Mig21, but also in the 17. Mark Berent's books on this subject are pretty interesting, and considering his experience and subject matter expertise, it's hard to ignore this.

[@drott150]

True statement. I'm an aerospace engineer and when I was in University I had an old school F-100 fighter pilot as one of my instructors from the Vietnam era. He used to tell us tales about his combat exploits and many missions over NV. The thing I remember most was him describing the propensity for the F-100 to experience compressor stalls if you maneuvered in a certain way too aggressively (due to its primitive "fishmouth" intake system). He said when it stalled, you would hear a big *_BOOM!_* and feel a slamming sound on the floorboards inside the cockpit. And every bit of dust and debris inside the cockpit that was settled into all the cracks and crevasses would come out and float around inside the cockpit area until things settled down again. He died several years ago because he was a drinking and smoking partier like almost all those guys of that era. He almost became an astronaut, but ending up playing a supporting role for those that actually got to ride the rockets of that time. Professor Roger Winblade was his name.

[@AngelitoTAzor]

He was referring to the air war combatants, unfortunately, the F100 was at a disadvantage against the MIGs, that's why they were in close air support of troops as you mentioned. In this role, they were very valuable.

[@cbroz7492]

...the F100 was the first Wild Weasel aircraft deployed to find and kill NV SAM Ii sites

[@cbroz7492]

...most.likely were Soviet pilots...same as in Korea during that war

[@marc1829]

Always something new, Doc! I'd read a fair bit about Colonel Toon or Tomb, but had not realized how effective the North Vietnamese fighters were in the air war. Thanks for the insight...

[@y_ffordd]

How did you not learn about how effective the Vietnam pilots were? I knew that just from the kill ratio decrease from Korea (12-1) to Vietnam (3-1) as quoted in the 1986 film Topgun.

[@RealNameDre]

As always a great retrospective! Very detailed as well as interesting, I learned something new today! 😀👏👍

[@gruntsffs1]

Amazing episode!!! Something I’d like to share…Having been born in 1972, I grew up with relatives traumatized by the war in Vietnam, and movies based on that tragic subject. For lack of a better explanation, I grew up viewing these people as an enemy. I didn’t hate them and I certainly never mistreated an Asian American. I imagine it’s how boomer’s felt about Germans or Japanese after WW2. As the US and Vietnam grew closer together, and I saw American Vietnam veterans go back and embrace their former foes (and having served and been to combat), my heart changed especially over 35+ years. Nothing about war is good, but I can look at these brave men and women now as comrades, brothers, and sisters. A culture so deep and rich. Much like the title of your episode, I can see the comparison. I’ll always mourn the loss of my countrymen, hell anybody, but I’m grateful for you dismissing myth, but telling a greater story in the end.

[@karllambert2350]

Not boomers ...they are the children of the greatest generation. My uncle fought from pearl harbor until after the war and disliked anything Japanese till the day he died ... especially Mitsubishi for sure.

[@malcolmhardwick4258]

Man this channel is growing soo fast I am glad to be around for the journey !

[@robgraham5697]

I had a book in my library, '…And Kill MiGs', about the air war over Vietnam. The author had interviewed a number of MiG killers. Among them Col. Robin Olds and 'Duke' Cunningham. I remember how impressed Cunningham was with the MiG-17 pilot that was claimed as Col. Tomb. Tomb had the nerve to go vertical with Cunningham's fighter, and came very close to getting away with it. It's a pity that Cunningham fucked up his life after the war.

[@boali476]

Dr.Felton ur a legend mate thx for them informative videos

[@calsurflance5598]

Recent subscriber here. Excellent content and very well researched. Mark, had you ever considered an episode featuring General Jimmy Doolittle? His son Col. John Doolittle was a personal friend and came to my Air Force retirement ceremony. Jimmy Doolittle’s contributions to aviation far exceed just the Tokyo Raid, for which he is most famous. His Masters Thesis from MIT, in 1922 , 100 years after it was written , is still relevant today in aircraft structural design. Development of higher octagon fuel while serving as VP at Shell Oil, Pioneer of instrument flying,etc. You probably have more topics than time. Just an idea. Enjoying your channel! Well done!👍

[@casualobserver3145]

I finally got the chance to meet Cdr. “Duke” Cunningham at last year’s ‘Wings Over Houston’ air show.

[@ODGColornChrome]

Based on latest breaking news, this guy is the only "ghost of kyiv".

[@aconcernedcitizen6056]

Ukrainians admitted it was all made up properganda

[@jakefarronmerlin7963]

Ghost of saigon

[@hadrianwall9157]

Yup....

[@Zveebo]

Literally the point of the entire video if you’d bothered to actually watch it 🤦‍♂️

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

@@Zveebo And yet Felton is using the Ghost of Kyiv myth as clickbait, because there are still shitloads of people who believe it. First Ghost suggests that the Ukrainian fabrication was real, when it should have been the REAL Ghost.

[@MrXdmp]

Thanks Dr. Felton!

[@sergiom9958]

Extraordinary video Dr Felton! Thanks!

[@msjoanofthearc]

Fascinating background...thank you again Mark!

[@r2gelfand]

Captivating account but somber as well. Thank you for a great video.

[@jerfacekilla]

The fact that that one MiG appeared to have 14 kills is incredible in it's self ...

[@shasha259]

It was fake, the footage was taken from a video game.

[@JoeOvercoat]

Right? Such a machine!

[@dadahobujiss]

@@shasha259 i think he’s talking about the Vietnam fighter pilot not the fake Ukrainian

[@m.salleh5919]

A lot of videos purportedly showing Russian tanks @ vehicles burning coming out of Ukraine is FAKE!

[@JoeOvercoat]

@@dadahobujiss MIGs, they get around.

[@AJK156]

Thanks for the video Dr. Felton!

[@lordofdunvegan6924]

As always an excellent video on a historical subject. Thank you Mark.

[@shed66215]

Cunningham and Driscoll becoming 'Aces' deserves a video of it's own. In the fight against 'Col. Tomb/Toon' Cunningham felt that he could have ejected from his MiG17 after the Sidewinder hit. It wasn't just the Vietnamese pilots who flew multiple aircraft - Cunningham and Driscoll were in Showtime 100, their Squadron CO's plane.

[@KB4QAA]

CC: Don't make too much of 100 being 'The CO's Plane". Navy airforce regulations (NATOPS) forbid the assignment of personal airplanes. This ensures all planes are flown in rotation, maintenance permitting, equalizing flight time. When you see names painted on planes that is just a vanity perk based on seniority. (old navy flyer).

[@maddazza9557]

been addicted to your videos for around a year now and whatever videos i have missed im catching up on, so a big thanks to you Mark for making history great again 😆👍

[@felyencisa9065]

How nice is your short story looking forward for another info. Well narrated thx

[@billscott356]

Great work, as always, Mark! Interesting bits of trivia of decades later. Randy Cunningham and his RIO Bill Driscoll did have that amazing day in which they were also shot down. Cunningham gets shot down again, unfortunately due to a self-inflicted wound. He ran for the U.S. House of Representatives, and won, in what is my congressional district in San Diego, CA, USA. He served a number of terms and I voted for him every time. As an aside, he was previously an instructor at Top Gun at Naval Air Station Miramar (now Marine Corps Station Miramar), which is about 4,000 feet south of my house. Aside from the aside, he did some bad things and was prosecuted. No detail here as it can just be looked up. However I was stunningly disappointed that the Top Gun instructor, Vietnam War ace, and my very own Congressman entered a plea deal and served prison time for accepting illegal gifts and other activities. I understand he is doing well now.

[@jessehamm3573]

3:26 More specifically, the Navy (due to the introduction of the Fighter Weapon's School (aka Top Gun)) learned to compensate for the F-4's lack of maneuverability with specifically designed tactics devised to exploit the type's overall power and speed advantage against lighter and more nimble aircraft types. Thus, the reintroduction of Navy pilots to the conflict, in 1972, saw Phantom crews achieve a substantially higher success rate than before. The Air Force, on the other hand, had no such luck with any specialized training programs, and thus continued to suffer what was deemed "unacceptable" loss ratios throughout the end of the war.

[@hlynnkeith9334]

Once again I am obliged to educate an ignorant squid. The Air Force 'officially' started its Weapons School in 1954. Before that, we just called it Aircraft Gunnery School. The Navy waited until 1969 to set up its sogenannte Top Gun school at Miramar. So who was first off the mark? Who came late to the party? As for 'unacceptable' loss ratios, I guess you don't know about Operation Bolo in 1967, huh? Confirmed claims - 7 MIG 21s; the North Vietnamese Air Force admitted to 5 losses. USAF losses - 0. How's that for 'unacceptable', d*ckhead? BTW those maneuvers the Navy learned " to compensate for the F-4's lack of maneuverability"? You learned those from us. Colonel Boyd invented them.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

This is not true. By 1972 the introduction of Teaball allowed the USAF to outscore the Navy with a whopping 15 to 1 kill ratio until operations ended in 1973. Not only did they have better training and improved cockpit "switchology", they were at this point fixing the major issue which was terrible ground radar coverage.

[@brentboswell1294]

The Air Force's best response to the crisis was to introduce a new type, the F-15. Too bad it wasn't ready in time to see combat in Vietnam. They were also anticipating fighter variants of the F-111, until it was painfully, obviously clear that the Aardvark would amount to little more than a tactical bomber that could also shoot sidewinders if there were enemies off the nose...😢

[@hlynnkeith9334]

@@brentboswell1294 I recall that our squadron commander called the FB-111 a triple threat wonder: bomb 'em, strafe 'em, or fall on 'em. ETA: Truth is I have a soft spot in my heart for the F-111. Back when General Dynamics called the plane the TFX, my family lived on a ranch 45 minutes north of Fort Worth. GD ran flight tests out of Carswell AFB (joint use between SAC and GD). They flew a different track every flight. 'Cause TOP SECRET, you know. One evening I walked to the barn from the house to put out hay for the cattle. I was all of 6 years old. I heard a noise from the southeast. I stopped and turned to look. I saw a flight of two TFXs in fingertip speeding toward me not more than 100 feet AGL. They passed over our ranch about 100 yards from me and disappeared over the ridge to the northwest. All the while the wingman was doing slow rolls. At that moment, I decided to become an Air Force pilot.

[@navyreviewer]

The tactics to beat more maneuverable aircraft with more powerful and rugged ones went back to WW1. To be honest the problem was 3 fold. 1) early versions of the sidewinder and sparrow lacked the lock on envelope to hold the lock in a dogfight. They were designed to shoot down slow, bombers at range. What they really needed was an all aspect heatseeker (sidewinder L) and AMRAAM. Dispite that and what the fighter mafia said most MIGs were shot down by Sparrows. 2) US pilots had to be taught to put their ego aside and not try to beat the MIGs at their own game of a circling fight. The phantom wasn't built for that game and the missiles weren't either. But who doesnt want to say "I beat him at his own game." 3) the rules of engagement were stupid. They had to visually identify their target. By that point they were already too close to hold a weapons lock.

[@sopwithsnoopy8779]

3:44 according to my sources, there were 7 official MiG-17 aces, not 3. Nguyen Van Bay (923rd FR) - 7 kills Le Hai (923rd FR) - 6 kills Luu Huy Chao (923rd FR) - 6 kills Nguyen Nhat Chieu (921st FR) - 5 kills (1 w/ MiG 17, 4 w/MiG 21) Le Quang Trung (923rd & 925th FRs) - 5 kills Nguyen Phi Hung (923rd FR) - 5 kills Vo Van Man (923rd FR) - 5 kills

[@tdpro3607]

well you can say that they all mined plenty of aluminum from the sky

[@genericpersonx333]

Care ye to cite the sources in your comments? Just a book title or website would be some help.

[@sopwithsnoopy8779]

@@genericpersonx333 Osprey publishing, Aircraft of the Aces #130 MiG-17/19 Aces of the Vietnam War, by István Toperczer. It lists the US aircraft/aircrew shot down, and date, too. Some have 'unconfirmed by US records' next to a kill, and only Nguyen Van Bay's 7 kills are all confirmed by US records, the 1st one being damaged only, the other 6 being shot down, with listed US aircrews.

[@m.salleh5919]

@@sopwithsnoopy8779 Ah, the burden of proof mate. I wonder if there's more proof written elsewhere in languages other than English.

[@allangibson2408]

@@m.salleh5919 Overclaiming has been a thing for a century. Comparison of claims with loss records is critical to get to the truth.

[@petersanders5321]

So many know what could be called "Basics" of military history, for a lack of a better term. But you sir, just keep on finding the darndest aspects. My only request- don't stop. Man, you're good...

[@animalanimal7939]

Man I wait for these! Awesome content sir.

[@cnoyes72]

I first heard of Colonel Tomb when he was mentioned in Chuck Yeager's Air Combat video game of the early 90's.

[@ghostcreeper243]

Wait, Yeager has a game?

[@sid2112]

@@ghostcreeper243 Oh yes, it was good for its time.

[@andrewcharles4349]

Classic

[@NoodlesExtraMSG]

Jane's US Navy fighters 97, had a mission honoring this mission as well. I had to use the cheat code.

[@ghostcreeper243]

@@sid2112 I need the name

[@williamharris9525]

Good morning Professor Felton!!

[@genehauser3913]

Thank you again for another outstanding video.

[@a18i92k]

Top notch as always Dr Felton.

[@SuperMAZ007]

Definitely id love to see more Vietnam war related videos in the future.

[@JoeOvercoat]

Check out Operation Linebacker on The Operations Room channel.

[@antibrotha]

Thank you Mark your videos bring me joy ❤️

[@sheldonrobertson8670]

Dr. Felton astonishing knowledge of everything to do with military warfare is surpass by no one, even wars besides WWII he is the best military mind of recent time!!

[@rsacchi100]

Good job in clarifying the reality of this aviation urban legend.

[@MikoyanGurevichMiG21]

Amazing video. This really shows the skill and tactics of the Vietnamese pilots which contributed to the MiG's reputation, unlike the less glorious use of it in the Arab wars around the same time, where it was the Israelis being the aces shooting them out of the sky.

[@kitnascimento001]

Because the Arabs and most of others that used the MIGs are incompetent, it is that simple. The plane is just a tool it can´t do anything on its own. I know that Egypt and Syria lost planes to Israel at a ratio of 1 to 50 or more.🤦‍♀️🤦 The only time they had any success against the Israel air force was when they used the SAMs at the beginning of the Yon kippur war. I think the best that Syria did in the 1982 was was to down a single F-15 or 14 i think against the loss of more than 100 MIGs 23 or something along those lines.🤦‍♀️🤦 The same for the tanks where they lost 100s of tanks to kill a single israel tank🤦‍♀️🤦

[@jonathanwick1265]

Operation Bolo took place on January 2, 1967. The U.S. Air Force flight led by Col. Robin Olds shot down 7 North Vietnamese MiGs in one day. The outcome was bad enough that the North Vietnamese temporarily grounded their MiG-21s. So it was before 1972 that the U.S. turned things around over the skies of Vietnam.

[@petergray7576]

North Vietnamese preference was for the MiG-17 anyway. The MiG-21 wasn't a particularly maneuverable aircraft in a dogfight, had less advanced radar and missiles than the Americans, and it had an annoying design flaw whereby a shift in the aircraft's center of gravity in flight caused by burn off of fuel prevented extraction of fuel from the dorsal tank. It was also a fragile aircraft with a weak airframe and little damage redundancy. The MiG-17 by contrast was perhaps one of the best jet gunfighters ever built, and it was both reliable, simple to maintain, and it could take a hit from missiles and still fly.

[@jonathanwick1265]

@@petergray7576 Their preference for the MiG-17 was because they had a limited supply of MiG-21s, not because the MiG-17 was superior. Also the North Vietnamese were not dog fighters. Their doctrine was fast hit and run attacks. Not battling it out with F-4s and F-8s. When they were in an equal fight. Fighter (F-4/F-8) versus fighter (MiG-21/MiG-17) fight they got their a** handed to them. My issue with Marc Felton's video is that it has a lot misleading statements in it.

[@petergray7576]

@@jonathanwick1265 That's not what I meant. In "boom and zoom" tactics there are two ways of escaping pursuing aircraft: either through acceleration, or by outturning them during a break away. While the MiG-17 isn't a supersonic aircraft, it could outturn the F-4s and F-105s (F-8s were a different matter). From all the accounts I've read the Vietnamese weren't that impressed with the MiG-21, but flew them because the Soviets didn't have anything better.

[@jonathanwick1265]

@@petergray7576 Yes, you're correct the MiG-17 could out turn the Phantom and the Crusader, but that's the only advantage that it had. North Vietnamese doctrine during the war was to climb, attack slow moving bombers like the F-105s and quickly leave. The pilots were controlled by radar ground crews. They made all the decisions. They weren't masters of dog fighting like the Germans, Brits, or Americans of WWII. When it came time to go fighter jet against fighter jet they lost. Most of the American aerial losses were due to SAMs and AA fire, not North Vietnamese pilots.

[@mantia39]

Another fascinating article sir! Thank you!

[@adamlee3772]

Very interesting video again. Thanks for producing and sharing it.

[@RogueAce93]

I remember watching the dogfight about him on Dogfights on the History Channel! Dark Skies did a vid about him too!!

[@ianwatson5605]

Well done on a great unbiased report backed up with excellent content as usual Mark. Thank you from the '' Toon Army at Newcastle''

[@Jonascord]

I'm biased. Duke Cunningham was a coach at Hinsdale HS, and I remember him gathering our class one day and announcing that he was being recalled to active duty. Then, when I was on Oki. in 1972, with 4th Marines, I read about him in Stars and Stripes...

[@kadyrov3218]

Thanks for sharing this.

[@AlvinREDDELTA]

awesome vid

[@TRHARTAmericanArtist]

Thanks for clearing this claim up. I love your passion for revealing truth from fiction. My friends and I discuss aviation history at every Zoom meeting. They are all military, I'm not ... but I am armed with Dr. Felton's stories and insights and they are amazed at my intuitive knowledge.

[@zbigniewkozlowski2749]

O Dr Mark , you are not only historian , at this case more like reporter , the best REGARDS, thanks for dedication, Ziggy

[@larrybomber83]

That was some great information. Thank You.

[@c.tedbarber4140]

Well Cunningham and Driscoll got some pilot with great skill that day if anyone has ever heard their recount of this engagement. Be it "Col. Tomb", another skilled N. Vietnamese pilot or maybe a secret Soviet flier, somebody matched Showtime 100 move for move for quite a while that day.

[@dmk0210]

Was it ever determined by Vietnamese records exactly who Cunningham and Driscol fought and eventually shot down? According to Cunningham's story, and I've heard Driscol recount it as well, he was a very determined and talented pilot.

[@jerryle379]

Both country pilot meet up every year pre COVID and confirm many of the kill and battle of both side , not sure if Cunningham show up ( but i doubt he will come to verify who he shot down or if he did shot down )

[@dmk0210]

@@jerryle379 I don't think Cunningham and Driscol know who they fought with and Cunningham is certainly one to "stretch the truth" for sake of a good story. I always wondered if the NVNAF records showed who was in a Mig17, was in that area and went missing that day.

[@AussieMaleTuber]

Great episode Mark, thankyou as always.

[@douglasjones2570]

Thank you Mark Felton!

[@sleeperawake9818]

Perhaps there were no files on Colonel Tomb because he was a Russian pilot? We know that the USSR sent pilots to train NVA pilots and that they flew missions.

[@jeffblacky]

Fazlollah Javidnia (Persian: فضل‌الله جاویدنیا) is an Iranian retired fighter pilot and a Grumman F-14 Tomcat flying ace during the Iran-Iraq War. was the last fighter ace and last jet ace in history - Do a video on him

[@petervollheim5703]

I've often thought of this Cunningham/Driscol/Toomb dogfight. Great video. Much Thanks.

[@johnpritchard5410]

I was a navy radioman over there, 50 years today. ten-month madhouse, March '72-January '73!

[@Sajuuk]

Holy crap that was a hard F4 carrier landing at the end of the video! It's hard to imagine those aircraft could do that repeatedly with no damage.

[@calsurflance5598]

I thought the same! That F-4 slammed the nose gear HARD! Surprised he didn’t blow the tire and the strut!

[@david-468]

Get that flag out your name Ukraine ain’t even fighting for their own country they wouldn’t care if every civilian died

[@DucknCoverin]

@Josef Mengele They’ve had it coming since WW2 and getting off Scott free for their nAzEee stunts. That my government wants to send them another $40 billion in aid while people can’t even get effin baby formula makes me want to puke. Joe Potato must defend his Ukrainian money laundering operation at all costs to the American people though.

[@expandedhistory]

The amount of people in this comment section who didn’t even bother reading the entire title, let alone watch the whole video are astounding. The video has nothing to do with “The Ghost of Kyiv.” It’s just a reference.

[@Zveebo]

'People' is stretching things, I think, based on their comment history.

[@hadrianwall9157]

@@Zveebo Really.....for calling bs on a click bait title....they now aren't people. That's what you are saying?

[@Zveebo]

@@hadrianwall9157 It’s not a clickbait title - the video is literally directly about what the title says, the very opposite of clickbait. And the comment history of most of the people complaining is mostly filled with pro-Russian propaganda. If you can’t be bothered to watch the video before furiously commenting, that’s your problem.

[@hadrianwall9157]

@@Zveebo I don't see a problem with pro-Russia propaganda. Better than the alternative. I'm all for what what is going on over there. I'm always for taking out the trash. How's your ghost doin now?

[@snottytoe6957]

I saw someone with your name once in warthunder, best pilot I have seen. Now suddenly you are in my youtube recommendations.

[@Looter217]

Another great video Dr. Felton!

[@RailfanVal]

The NO.1 War Thunder Pilot!

[@waterz2415]

xd

[@gabork5055]

I thought that title belonged to Mark Felton Gaming.

[@odonovan]

2:39 - What about the "Super Sabre?" The F-100 was deployed in Southeast Asia from 1961 to 1971. On 4 April 1965, the very first US air-to-air kills were made by F-100s, three MiG-17s.

[@MikoyanGurevichMiG21]

The Super Sabres are underrated jets. Doesn't have the recognition that either their predecessor, the F-86 or their successor, the Phantoms had.

[@Jordan77831]

When engaging in the Vietnam War studies, most programs and history books only took the American's side in the war. This is certainly interesting and important, to know about the two sides of the war. Thank you again, Dr. Felton, for revile the dark side of history for us.

[@bremsenreinigerkonsument3424]

Indeed a very well done video! Thumbs up from Germany, Sir!

[@MrBestshot33]

Cunningham had to fly the f4 upside down back from the combat zone. It was that damaged.

[@jackpot9090]

Generally curious, how many of these mig pilots in Vietnam were actually Vietnamese? In Korea I believe it was actually documented that Soviet pilots were indeed flying a bunch of the mig15s that the USSR gave to NK

[@traaotuong6107]

Probably 99,99% of them were Vietnamese nationals because Vietnamese leaders at the time such as Ho Chi Minh didn't want to rely heavily on foreign supports or let foreign intervention - human resource deeply in the war. Human cost is very hard to pay back. Therefore, foreign soldiers from Soviet Union, China, Cuba... were mainly doing supportive jobs in the rear like construction, teaching,...

[@jerryle379]

1. Most are vietnamese , both side pilot meet up every year pre COVID to confirm battle record 2. Only north Korean pilot fight in Vietnam war , they not really good and fly mig 19 withdrew pretty fast after they group get heavy lost 3. Vietnam don't keep stuff secrect 80% of us are on the internet , we only behind Chinese in term of foreign student in america , we also don't have great wall like Chinese

[@andrerrie]

God bless you Sir Felton!

[@pesnevim1626]

I live opposite Brno Technical Museum in the Cz Rep where there are 2 Migs on display. These aircraft were very active in patrolling Cz borders from US intrusions. I'm sure Dr Felton would love the museum.

[@gs637]

Apparently, this legend was actually created by the US pilots themselves, to justify their loses due to fighting against super-duper enemy fighter pilot. " Oh well, It MUST have been Col. Tumb, again, what can ya do..."

[@jmantime]

The real "Ghost of Kyiv" was polish ace Stanislaw Skalski ( Phantom of Warsaw ) who shoot down 18 german warplanes during the Invasion of Poland in 1939, He also flew for the RAF after he escaped to britain after the fall of poland where he shoot down 4 more german plane during the battle of britain.

[@tom68536]

Thanks for all the videos, Mark! Sorry I couldn't send more!! Looking for your books!

[@paulmurphy42]

Keep 'em coming Mark!

[@astoronnyp2476]

There may be another dimension in that story... the one about the Vietnamese ace, not in the story of the "Ghost..." In the Soviet aviation folklore those unknown Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese aces were commonly identified under a "code name" of "pilot Li Si Tzin" - which is a conveniently sounding oriental imitation of a Russian last name Lisitzin (Fox) 🛦🛦🛦 Khánh Đỗ Nam has a version that it might be another fighter pilot, whose name was Pham Tuan (or Toon). Without going into a discussion whether true or not, I would like to notice that the guy deserves his own legend 🙂 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ph%E1%BA%A1m_Tu%C3%A2n

[@andro7862]

The difference is, Tuan is still alive. "Toon" or "Tomb" was allegedly killed in 1972 as the story goes.

[@aslamnurfikri7640]

Ace Combat main character IRL

[@joshthemigpro1733]

Exept he was fake

[@stefanschleps8758]

Thank you Professor Felton. Wish we would see you doing more Vietnam era stories. Too little is known about this war. Can you do another episode on LRRP?

[@RAD6150]

I first heard of Colonel Tomb playing Chuck Yeager Air Combat way back when... Thanks for filling in the details!

[@qweqwe5609]

Thank You Dr. Felton for another entertaining piece with an accompanyingly entertaining comment section. Your video plus these guys exposing themselves as fools really made my day lmao

[@marioacevedo5077]

Great video. The US thought it could steamroll over the Vietnamese in a short war. We had every advantage and still lost. Maybe we shouldn't have been there in the first place.

[@natowaveenjoyer9862]

We never “lost” in Vietnam.

[@QWERTY-gp8fd]

@@natowaveenjoyer9862 u lost vietnam war. war isnt just count of how many u killed. cuz using that logic nazis won ww2

[@jensenwilliam5434]

Thank you Mark for the history facts!!

[@richardmanderscheid6836]

Thanks Doctor always a pleasure.