The first step to a perfect stroke - Elbow alignment

[@robertforrest1763]

I have to say your videos have helped my game very much and being a beginner I have seen some improvement in my game. Keep the videos coming and Thanks for the good info

[@724riff]

JMO , all these things are true as far as the pool stroke goes , but its more noticeable due to the squirt on the cue ball and object ball because how slippery simonis cloth and others like it . i have experience both world for a long time , I also had a stroke that i never had to pay to much attention to nor even look at the cue ball because mentally my mind made the adjustment of english during my stroke with great accuracy . it is just my opinion that the fast cloths absolutely reward a perfect stroke and it also demands a slower pool stroke than years ago , slower tables require a longer zippier pool stroke but they seem to allow different shots to be made with more certainty , its like the thicker felt keeps the ball in your personal groove better . now i have to pay more attention to the cueball instead of angles deflection and so on .

[@morpheusz5727]

If there a way to fix this? Thanks

[@724riff]

can you explain why i cupp my wrist ,,,,,, i can be playing great sometimes and i miss the a ball that is so easy and i notice a cupped wrist or flying elbow in my stroke that i would love to eliminate ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and btw go look at KIETH Mcreadys arm omg he has made it work but is the poster child for what not to do .

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

Cupping your wrist and gripping hard on the cue during the follow through is not a good thing to do because you will hit slightly off of target but more importantly, you will enact some inadvertant side spin on the cue ball, which will lead to squirt and the cue ball will not travel as straight. The amount of squirt you add on is slight, but just enough that you will miss shots more often that if you didnt. what I would do is relax your hand and relax your wrist. And while taking the shot, shoot the cue ball slower. You dont need to hit the cue ball that hard. After practicing shooting slower and with a loose wrist and grip, then slowly hit the cue ball a little harder, but always keep your wrist and grip loose. Now when I say keep a loose grip, I mean exactly how it sounds. Literally keep the grip loose. Not loose to the point that the cue slides out of your hand, but loose to the point where the cue rests nice and easy in your hand and your fingers are relaxed. As for the wrist, the wrist should stay straight up and down. that is the key. Keep the wrist as a literal extension of your forearm, so keep it straight. This is what I mean by a loose wrist - keep it straight. It is common for some beginner players to cock their wrists inward during the stroke and this will add side spin you do not want. Note: some philpino pros like efren, bustamante, and others will have a loose wrist to the point that their wrist is sliding back and forth during the shot, sort of like a loose rope hanging from their forearms. This is something I do not recommend! If you can do this, then go for it, maybe it will be better. But besides some philipino players, I have yet to see any other pro shoot like this. So what I say is Loose grip, but releatively rigid, straight wrist (not curled inward)

[@morpheusz5727]

I have chicken wing that causes my elbow to point out so i turn my biceps inward and my forearm is straight but it feels awkward

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

Having the forearm straight is the key. If you keep your forearm straight, but your bicep is not straight, then as long as you do not move your bicep, you will be able to have a 2-dimensional stroke - you will not have to worry about your hand swaying from right to left.

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

So it sounds like you used to have a chicken wing (tip of elbow outward) but you have now changed it so that your bicep is inward (similar to how I shoot and how Wu Cha Qing shoots)? And you are asking me if there is a way for you to keep your forearm straight while feeling less awkward?

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

If that is the case, I would recommend changing where your feet are positioned. If you have a squarer stance (similar to my stance and to a snooker stance), it may feel more comfortable. From my experience, this stance feels less comfortable, but I am able to be more consistent because my body is more aligned with the shot - it is all personal preference though so I recommend you try it out. You could also try a more traditional american stance. Watch Albin Ouschan. He has a mildly front/back foot stance but also has compensated for some interesting cross eye dominance. However, he is still able to have nearly perfect form. He may be a good person to imitate. Lastly, if the foot position does not work, I recommend you try raising your chin elevation height. It may make more room for your follow through and also allow for your elbow to more naturally align with the shot. Let me know how these changes work out for you. Comfortability is key, but at the same time, it may take a week or so to get used to a better stance that will automatically become comfortable. And trust me, it is worth making the change if you have poor stance now since that simple change will highly benefit your consistentcy in the future.

[@morpheusz5727]

TheBilliardsDoctor Yeah i forearm is really straight now and my biceps are slightly turned inward (Not like wu jiang qing) when i get down on the table i have to manually turn my bicep inward and i have to slide my grip hand to be relaxed and aligned Ive been making straight shots Do i continue working on this ?

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

Definitely. If you are tall like me or if you are cross eye dominant, this new stance may be the only way for you to keep your forearm perfectly up and down. Which is the most important part. The other option is to shift your feet such that your feet form a line that are parallel to the cue. In this case, you would need to hunch over a decent amount and your elbow will be far from the side of your body. Your elbow will feel like it is floating and it may be tricky to keep that elbow still since it is so far from your body. A great example of this is Chris Robinson. I played him in the National Collegiate Finals last year. He has some youtube videos, and I recommend looking him up if interested. He is a very amazing pool player and he has this vwery unique stance that I just mentioned. However, if you are cross eye dominant like me, Wu, Albin, etc. then this stance will not help you. When I tried this stance, I found it very hard to keep my cue going in a straight line, in ohter words, I was steering with the cue a lot. That is the reason why I prefer the snooker stance. But everyone has their own preferences. Hope that helps!

[@morpheusz5727]

Hey doc it's me again. Ive been working on my backarm but im still not consistent. Some times i feel really good about my shots but often times i can not stay at that one position where my backarm and forearem are not straight. I tried to tighten my under arm to make my forearm straight, but my shoulder and triceps are not locked in. My whole arm just comes off when i hit the cueball. I really dont know how to get my shoulder, triceps and forearm in line, can you give me some suggestions..?

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

Hmmmm I see your problem. It sounds like before you take the shot your arm is good but during the shot your arm loses its form and stops being straight? If this is the case, I think you are hitting the ball too hard. When you hit it that hard, you automatically lose form. My suggestion is to take softer shots and focus on keeping your arm in that position. After a few days of practice, your arm will feel better and better at that position and it will feel more and more comfortable to stay there. Trust me, it is worth the practice and persistence to eventually get your arm to align better. So that is what I recommend. Also, try filming yourself and watching your back arm during the stroke. This will help you determine what part of your arm is not aligning correctly so you can contiously think about it and fix it for the next time. Like I said, keep your forearm straight up and down is what needs to be done. If you can do that, then you are doing it right. Your bicep should not move during the stroke no matter what. If it is moving, then that means you are dropping your elbow which is NOT good. Elbow drop will give you inconsistnent shots, so do not do it. Focus on bicep stationary and forearm doing the pendulum stroke. Film it, focus on keeping that form, hit it softer and more controlled, and eventually you will automatically do that position without even thinking about it. It may take you a few days or a week of praciticng 2 hours or 3 hours per day to get it, but once you get it, it will pay off tremendously. Lastly, if you feel too crunched in that poisition, be sure to try elevating your chin as that really really helped me have the perfect pendulum stroke. Hope that helps! Lol and thanks for starting with "hey doc", I like that lol

[@morpheusz5727]

TheBilliardsDoctor for some reason i can not get my shoulder aligned on the shot line.. unless i kinda force the muscle and move it up.. It worked out great the first time i tried it i could make super hard and accurare shots but i slowly lost the consistency.. You suggested me to work on soft shots to get my arm stationary I guess shoulder alignment isnt that big of a problem.. it is ideal but i just cant get it 😔 Inconsistency has been bothering me so much lately

[@morpheusz5727]

TheBilliardsDoctor i see players like oscar dom and jeffrey ignacio not having their elbows lined up. Will that affect the accuracy? Really wanna make sure that im practicing right..

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

You are correct that there are some players like Oscar and skylar woodward who do not have their elbow in the correct position - they have their elbow outward such that their forearm is actually making an inward angle with their elbow out and their hand under their body. Ignacio only does this very slightly, so I do not count him in this category.Their are also players who have the exact opposite problem like Bustamante or dennis orcollo who have their elbow pointing inward and their forearm pointing outward. Both of these are difficult to maintain but if you practice enough, you can make it work and become a great player. It all has to do with consistency and how much time you want to practice. One of my good friends from the national tourney worked with Mark Wilson, who told him that if you do not have a perfectly up and down forearm, you can still be a great player, but you will need to practice much more to keep the same consistency. Think of it like a pendulum. When your forearm is straight up and down and your bicep does not move, then you are only working in 2 dimensions. Your forearm goes forward and backwards. That is all. When you move your forarm at outward an angle like for Sckyler or Oscar, your forarm is now moving in three dimensions as it can move side to side as well as forward and backwards. If you practice like this all the time, and you have great endurance, you can still be a great player with this form. However, this is super hard to maintain as the slight movement of your elbow from left to right will cause you to often times add sidespin on your shot. From my exprience, if you have your elbow outward (or chicken wing it is often called), then you will almost always add a small amount of sidespin, especially on shots where you have a big follow through. If I were you, I would give it more time practicing with the elbow up and down. Film yourself and try to keep on that perfectly up and down elbow. Elevate your chin above the cue to make it easier too as this will also decrease your forarm from going inwards. I think you should keep trying becasue if you switch back to the chicken wing then you will find yourself missing lots of shots later in the game because you get tired and you are now moving in 3 dimensions plus you will have to practice much more to be good at the chicken wing compared to the up and down elbow form. Let me know how it goes. I would give it a two weeks of sticking with the up and down forarm form and filming it, staying disciplined. If you don't see improvment, then switch back I guess. But I believe you can do it. Watch Wu Cha Qing for inspiration. I doubt your elbow problem is as bad as his, yet he is one of the best potters in the world. Also, suprisingly, I have noticed that Jayson Shaw also has this form slightly too. Good luck!

[@morpheusz5727]

TheBilliardsDoctor Uhh rn my problem is that my shoulder and triceps arent aligned with the shot my forearm is pretty straight up and down and on the line.. Should i practice more to make it stationary? Especially on some hard shots my whole arm just moves

[@kostaszontoner]

hi i have a question.every time i pull the cue back it goes to my right and then as it goes forward it goes to the left unless i turn my wrist to compensate.from videos that i've taken the problem seems to be that every time i stroke my elbow goes side to side instead of straight back and forth.i'm slightly left-eye dominant and use a snooker stance and for the pre shot routine i put my foot,grip and vision center on the shot line and then i drop down on the shot.i have tried many things but i don't know how to fix this problem.i don't know if it's my body anatomy or something.any help would be appreciated,great videos by the way.i also have some links of my stroke: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZzCe2B7eJVljNk kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaW1iYqvn811ibM

[@TheBilliardsDoctor]

I promise you that it is not the body anatomy, you just havent found your right stance yet. Keep trying different stances, especially adjusting your legs in different positions and really focusing on your elbow staying stationary and your arm moving back and forth like a pendulum. You may also find it helpful to focus on having a loose grip on the cue as the loose grip helps prevent me from steering with the cue (moving the tip from right to left during the shot due to my over gripping the cue during the shot). Just try a bunch of different stances and watch some pro pool players play to find out what stance works for you. It may be that you are tall, short, wide shiulders, etc. etc. and there is a perfect stance that works for you. Do the shot aim tests on my other videos to test whether your stance is giving you a better straighter shot as that test is the best way to test for sure (place cue ball on dot on break line of cue table. Set chalk on diamond on far side opposite cue ball. Hit the cue ball with a little top spin at the chalk striking the cue ball in the middle at a medium slow speed such this it just makes it back to your cue tip after it hits the other cushion and comes back. If the cue ball travels straight back, you have a straight stroke, if it travels to your right of the cue when it comes back, you are putting on a slight amount of right spin, And trust me, a little side spin unintendedly will hurt your game for sure. Hope that helps!

[@kostaszontoner]

yes the cue ball usually comes back with a bit of right spin when i do the up and down drill.when i turn my wrist to compensate and time the stroke well i manage to hit the cue ball where i intend to but other times i don't and it is causing an inconsistency in my game and in tournament play.i have a normal height (5'10) and normal build,i don't know if it has something to do with my body type.i think when i square my hips more to the shot line the cue seems to go a bit straighter but i'll have to do the drill again to find out.does the cue also feel lighter when you figure out your ideal body position and stroke straight?i might have to go to an instructor if i can't sort it out.