The First World War Webley & Scott for air-to-air warfare, with firearms expert, Jonathan Ferguson

[@TheLoxxxton]

I always see Jonathan sitting in front of the racks and racks of guns and always wonder if he will ever just walk us down the line pointing out what's there!

[@Ramonatho]

Would love that. It would give us the chance to comment about anything in particular we would like to see in the racks.

[@marmite8959]

"SMLE Mk I, SMLE Mk II, SMLE Mk III, SMLE Mk III*....

[@samholdsworth420]

@@marmite8959 go on....

[@allmac7504]

Me 2

[@grahamrankin4725]

Or it could be green screen image

[@jonathanferguson1211]

The redoubtable Othais has pointed out that the button on the right side is actually a disassembly feature, which will teach me to rely on memory and not revise before recording :) In fact, the Webley ALWAYS locks open unless there is a loaded magazine present.

[@FryingTiger]

Too bad he is so "actchually" fedora guy that is he unwatchable.

[@jamesallred460]

Ian don't Othais.

[@christopherdean1326]

The grandfather of a close friend of mine was a Squadron Leader in the RFC, survived to rebadge to the RAF, and even survived the war as a whole. From my friend I have the story of how one day, while out on patrol, he started getting shot at from the Allied lines. He returned fire with his Webley pistol to no effect, so he ended up throwing it at them! On landing he realised that he would now have to buy another pistol! Sadly, the one he threw was a Fosbery Automatic revolver, which he replaced with a MkVI.

[@JoshuaC923]

That's hilarious

[@christopherdean1326]

@@JoshuaC923 I know! I really wish I had got to meet the man, he sounded quite the "character".

[@idiotidiot5821]

Lol throwing the baby out with the bathwater

[@BHuang92]

Amazing that within a century, arial warfare has gone from rude remarks to air-to-air missiles!

[@crudboy12]

Within about 40 years when you consider when the AIM 9 sidewinder was introduced.

[@F1ghteR41]

@@crudboy12 And unguided missiles were used in aerial combat since at least 1939 if not WW1.

[@robertdeen8741]

Probably rude hand jestures. Those engines would of been far to loud to yell over and be heard. Hell, if one could yell that loud, one could probably knock the other plane out of the air just by yelling at it. SOD OFF YOU SAUSAGE EATING HUN SON OF A BACHALER!!!!!! And down would go the DR1 to crash in nomans land.

[@m.b.82]

Less than half a century. They had jets with a2a missiles in the 50's or 60's

[@cameronmccreary4758]

I owned two .455 Webley Automatic pistol in the 1970s. I was able to purchase ammunition from Ely through a importer here in the U.S.. I ended up having to customize .45 Colt cases and make a lead bullet mould for proper bullet shape and weight. Accuracy was very good but not quite as good as my Colt Good Cup pistol in .45 ACP. I did admire the workmanship such as the angular barrel locking ramps which were hand fitted. The bullet traveled at about 770 fps. Also, it would chamber and single fire the .455 Webley revolver ammunition. Nice pistol overall but like early Colt pocket hammerless pistols they were somewhat soft. Also, I did try shooting the pistol out in the Mojave desert where I had measured range and the pistol was not realiably accurate past 50 yards/meters area and then my holdover the target was about 1 inch or so.

[@Celebmacil]

The .455 Webley Automatic was always the stereotypical "When a kindergarten kid draws what they think a P-38 pistol looks like" gun to me.

[@derekp2674]

Thanks Jonathan and team for bringing out those rare and historic items. Thanks also to Richard Milner, it was great to hear that your are still passionately involved with historic firearms.

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

It is like the starter weapon in a dedicated air-to-air combat game. ( I wonder if The Spiffing Brit could find an exploit to make it OP )

[@jonathanferguson1211]

It kind of was that in real life for the RFC and RNAS :D

[@boingkster]

"So thats your aircraft and this... this is your weapon. No, not your sidearm, this is what you'll be firing at the enemy aircraft you encounter. I know its small but it does self-load. We have larger things being worked up by ordnance but for now this is it... any questions?"

[@TheArgieH]

@@boingkster Yes, can I have a parachute?

[@vinceely2906]

“I’m going to give you a gun in case you are shot down.” “Er…Can I have a parachute then?” “No!”

[@90lancaster]

I like the way the Magazine partial stop acts to prevent it falling out and also from engaging (hopefully) acting as a back up 'safe carry' safety, As you wouldn't want to have the thing get jiggled and shoot you in the foot.

[@kirili9107]

The volume is really low. Please editors, please turn the final volume up!

[@russellwarren9595]

At first glance the Webley Self loading pistol always make me think of Captain Scarlet.

[@hendriktonisson2915]

In an armamentresearch article British Enfield SA80 Part 1: Mock-ups there are quite good photos of one of the Enfield SA80 bullpup concept mock-ups. There's also one rather small picture that also shows 3 other mock-ups including 2 guns in conventional configuration. Can you make a video about these 3 other mock-ups so people can get a closer look at these interesting pieces of British firearms history?

[@TheIrishGamerGuy]

The British M1911. Muzzle reminds me of a Luger, Slide markings a 1911 but with the single bullet shooting ability of a rifle.....I find this amazing 😅 One of the most interesting episodes so far. Quality stuff👍

[@aclevername9381]

How a weapon of such magnitude and potency did not render aircraft obsolete overnight is an utter mystery!

[@F1ghteR41]

3:26 And even more bizzare within the context of the preceding handguns, which were Webley break-open revolvers. 4:09 One could, perhaps, argue that the real problem with the grip safety is that if it can be depressed really easily, there isn't much use in it as a safety, and when it cannot, it's too effective for its own good. 6:40 And as soon as Jonathan had finished describing the proper 'reverse-comma' nomenclature, the editor promptly dropped half the commas. 😂

[@quattroconcept4]

Those biplanes and triplanes dogfights with fixed Lewis guns, bolt action rifles, shotguns and pistols must have been insane.

[@PrototypeSpaceMonkey]

Aircraft mounted shotguns. What a time to be alive... however briefly.

[@shoelessbandit1581]

Honestly we should've stayed at just throwing bricks and shooting handguns at each other. That was peak dogfighting

[@ToreDL87]

Well.. It was a bit more complicated than that, they weren't just haphazardly lashing guns to the planes and having at it at the behest of air service commands. First and foremost they had absolutely vital recon missions to complete, basically in warfare, if you don't have recon and intelligence on your enemy = You lose. Planes were still somewhat rare and expensive to produce as well, undue risk to machines, which were hard to replace in the early days of WW1, and aircrews, which were difficult to train, was not warranted. Shotguns, rifles and pistols were simply brought up on ordinary missions, shouldered and fired as you would on solid ground, RFC command thought nothing of it and thought whatever made their aircrews happy. It was the off-center machine guns and deliberate targeting of German aircrews that made them think twice. Naturally then, anything that got in the way of those recon missions = RFC wasn't having it. Anything they did would have to be outside of assigned missions and kept on the down low hush hush. And that's what they did. Then they started actually dropping Germans out of the sky in somewhat of a considerable quantity (given how few were in the air in the first place), people like Lanoe Hawker and Roland Garros were actively preying on German recon planes, their scores don't reflect German loss ratio, it was actually pretty severe. First blood was drawn, the Allies, rather than the Germans, had more than a little scourge going on. RFC command, Armée de l'Air, and, began to take notice. Lest we forget, ze Germans, who were all but impressed from losing largely unarmed recon planes to direct targeting, took very much of an interest. Contrary to popular myth, Fokker started work on converting his/their Fokker M.5 (loosely based on the Morane Saulnier) for air combat pretty early on. Fokker stole nothing, simply because he already had a thing going on months before Roland Garros went on a killing spree, what really had the German's encourage Fokker to finish his work on the M.5 pursuit plane was when Roland Garros (the guy that made a machinegun fire through propeller arc by simply armoring the propeller) was shot down by anti air fire and parts of his machine was recovered as he was unable able to fully destroy it before his capture. Shortle thereafter, the Fokker Eindecker (modified M.5, which was losely based on the same Morane Saulnier that Roland Garros was shot down in) was born, enter the Fokker Scourge and mechanized death in the air as well, no frontline service was safe.

[@TheArgieH]

Actually the job of the gunner on the RFC's earliest pusher fighter took quite a bit of nerve. The gunner and pilot sat in tandem, the gunner at the front. He had two Lewis guns, one at the front on a swivel mount to fire from the cockpit. Using the second was a bit more hair raising. That one was mounted on a pedestal between pilot and gunner, high enough to fire backwards over the top wing. To reach it, the gunner stood up on his seat and fired back over the propellor. He braced himself by resting his back against the other Lewis. Only holding onto the gun was all that stopped him falling out. He was totally exposed from the knees up. That was the FE2, pride of the RFC and ender of the Fokker scourge. It was quite tough and manoeuvrable as was the gunner evidently .

[@ToreDL87]

@@TheArgieH Yeah the "Fee" is famous, not at all as defenseless as it let on, one of those may have killed Max Immelman, one of the foremost Fokker "Scourgers". He was in a Fokker E.IV with a Oberursel UR.III 160hp double row, those things were basically engine with guns and wings, impossible to turn with and all that rotating mass... A pullet may have hit a propeller blade and that's all it took for the plane to twist itself apart mid-air like a helicopter. Ironically it happened in the midst of him pulling his famous Immelman maneuver.

[@biggtoe90]

I love the multiple camera angles. It's nice to see historic pieces, contextualized by an expert, in detail, with full video coverage. Well done

[@kebabsvein1]

Amazing! Not something you see every day!

[@txgunguy2766]

The US Army Air Corps had a special "Air Service" version of the M1903 Springfield rifle. It was basically a standard '03 Springfield but with the forestock cut back halfway and a fixed 25 round box magazine.

[@sejembalm]

Back in the early '90s, I met a friend who collected British revolvers, but the biggest problem he had was finding ammo for them! Wisely, he bought up a lot of ammo through publications in the 1980s & '90s such as the Shotgun News and he home-loaded his brass. Not just rarities like .476 Eley ammo for the 1881 Enfield Mk II revolver, or the 1913 .455 Webley Auto Mk I semi-rimmed cartridge for the above Webley & Scott Self Loading pistol, but just getting regular .455 Webley fodder is difficult and expensive. Bummer!

[@DeliveryMcGee]

A great many of the .455 Webley revolvers in the US have the back of the cylinder shaved down to take .45 Auto Rim (basically .45 ACP with a really thick rim) or standard .45 ACP in moonclips (hence the thick rim on the non-clipped version). Don't use stock ammo in them, though, standard .45 ACP is a bit more than the proofing load for .455 (i.e., almost twice the working chamber pressure, the "12 tons" stamp means it survived one shot with that, not that that's what it's normally supposed to be subjected to). I've heard differing opinions on how massively overbuilt the British Service Revolvers are (My 1915 Mk VI didn't explode with 18 rounds or so of factory of .45ACP military ball before I started making custom loads for it), but best not to risk it with 1890s-1910s metallurgy. But you can handload .45 ACP or Auto Rim to non-scary pressures using bullets meant for .45 Colt revolvers (.45 Auto is .452, so bit of a hotdog in a hallway, bullets for .45 Colt revolver are usually .454, so somewhat better, or make a custom mold and melt your own lead.)

[@DeliveryMcGee]

I also have a 1970s S&W in .38 S&W not-special, which is interchangeable with the .38 British that the miniature Webleys used, it's nigh-impossible to find. Buffalo Bore makes it but nobody stocks it, so even if you get a store to special order it for you you still have to pay shipping (but slightly less that ordering hazmat though private shipping.) But Starline makes brass for it, and modern .38/9mm bullets are within tolerance (modern .38/9mm/.357 Mag is .355-.357", oldschool is .361", but the bullet being a smidge undersized doesn't matter as much with a 2" barrel.)

[@JJ-xt2dq]

brilliant research work!

[@davep7223]

Really appreciate everything this guy does. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and rare pieces like this!

[@mg1342mg]

I was stationed in Old Blighty when the handgun ban happened. A lady at an air gun store in Crowden showed me a Webley-Fosbery! I offered to pay fmv to save it. She told me not to worry, it would be safe. I sure hope it is still treasured by someone.

[@PaulP999]

For any non-British viewers, years back there was a school shooting (extremely rare here, obviously a nutter) which preceded a national election and the winning party had made it an election issue so almost overnight every responsible firearm owner became a baddie and had to export or scrap their collections.

[@clifbradley]

When you ran out of ammo, you could throw it and watch it crash completely through the other plane, or when landing, chuck it over the side as an air anchor.

[@GITRDONE7117]

I’m assuming you can’t remove the seal from the stock to handle the weapon more effectively? Why don’t you have a copy of the stock made for you to be able to handle the weapon with less worry about breaking the seal?

[@connormatthews522]

been eagerly waiting for this episode haha

[@mlpeacecraft339]

Love these guns. I always wished they were in bf1.

[@lonestar16oz]

Subscribed to Armax just now. Should have done it last year, thanks for the reminder.

[@hoodoo2001]

I had one of these Webley.455 autos and fired some custom ammo with it. A nice shooting pistol. I had a chance to buy one of the adjustable sight versions but passed in the 70's....regret it. Actually the single shot feature allowed to to put one in the barrel then you would have 8 rounds in the pistol. Not something you wanted to do unless you knew you were going to be in action.

[@CBadger]

Nice to see The Royal Armouries using giant Caramac chocolate bars to hold up the firearms.

[@lawrencemartin1113]

Wonderful stuff. I also have a fascination with small arms used or carried in aircraft. Would like to see a review of the Colt 1903 pocket 'hammerless' that was issued to RAF personnel during WWII. I am only recently catching up on all these wonderful films, so thank you for the superb info and style in your work.

[@SKILLED521]

Thanks for this channel. Academic yet charming. Being British done well!

[@wayne1559]

You do an excellent job sir..........well done!!!!!!

[@henryattfield8979]

There is also a vertical extension on the barrel that locks into the top of the slide like in modern pistols such as the glock

[@curlywhitfield8100]

I really like the look of them

[@Omnihil777]

Ah the WEB again, Weird English Brick. I myself think it has a special charme, kinda like the Schwarzlose 1998 (which actually was a brilliant pistol btw). Must've looked quite sci-fi in the eyes of the time. There seems to be a pattern with sci-fi looking pistols, like the HK VP70 - has the looks, but works kinda weird.

[@ThomasRonnberg]

Love these videos but would love to see more of these firearms fired!

[@allanburt5250]

Fantastic thanks for sharing 👍

[@bladder1010]

Quite the hand cannon!

[@zoiders]

I find the wooden stock to be beautiful. It is minimalist, functional and very Edwardian. It flows.

[@paulchilds1893]

"Everyone gets a Lewis gun and crack on." Might be the most English I've heard Jonathan sound.

[@rogersmith8339]

Who out there has seen the Webly single shot "automatic" in .22 that had a blow back slide but shape wise was much like it's bigger brothers. An old friend had one of each variant back in the day.

[@timbuckjr9081]

The profile of the gun reminds me of The Man With the Golden Gun pistol.

[@auldm]

The Royal Flying Corps purchased Model 1886 Winchester lever action rifles chambered in .45-90 Win. Also Winchester model 1907 semi-automatic rifles were ordered by the Royal Flying Corps from Winchester in World War I.

[@adavidmerritt8305]

For the top down view, could you get a higher resolution camera, and some decent lighting, to be able to see some detail?

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

Replace the Webley Revolver? By Gad Sir, what tomfoolery is this? Firing those cylindrical unjacketed rounds, (the ones Johny European tried to ban), that revolver will make a hole in the Hun you could fly a Be2c through!

[@auldm]

Detailed video by C&Rrsenal here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hai7lGmweZaXd8k

[@andyeveritt9003]

great video imagine being close enough to use a shotgun would some have used the Webley V1 .455 revolver

[@shadowrealmintern2550]

Can we see john in full kit with nods please lol

[@chasechristophermurraydola9314]

One thing for sure I would love to see what a whitworth sniper rifle looks like and I would love to see what it looks like because I am trying to figure out what sharpshooter rifles did the confederates use and I am trying to figure that out because during the battle of Gettysburg one of my 3rd great aunt and uncles attic was being used as a confederate sharpshooters nest.

[@capt.bart.roberts4975]

I knew an old boy who was in The RNAS. He went out to Italy to train their Naval Service in the use of aircraft. He always said, "We went out first class, came back in cattle trucks!"

[@cosmo9882]

Cowboy's in the air, awesome thank you 🙂

[@willboucher5397]

Eax seal or early example of a weapon charm.... changing your mind on them are you?

[@jonathanferguson1211]

You're messing with my mind!

[@johngathard4717]

Random thought, use on ships to try and set enemy sails alight🤔

[@lemoncandy2707]

I’m always surprised to see more WW1 weapons that surprisingly didn’t make it into Battlefield 1.

[@brianswan3559]

The last aircraft shot down in the ETO during WW2 is said to be a Fieseler Storch by a Piper Cub flown by two GI's with their 45's.

[@clifbradley]

If it,was,for air-to-air combat, why didn't they give it a longer barrel? Well I'm guessing you probably don't know either since you didn't design it. Buy just wondering if that would have made it more accurate. I watch Rex's Hangar and he talked in a recent video about the tactics used in WW1. I thought shotguns and 1911's were the standard use weapons then. He just said 'service pistols and rifles'

[@jonathanferguson1211]

Ah, but it *wasn't* for air combat. It was a military sidearm that saw emergency use in the air. It was adopted at a time when few expected to attack or be attacked in the air. So no real thought went into adapting it for air service, and the stocked version was only adopted by the Royal Horse Artillery, not by either of the air services. Pistols were used where there wasn't anything better. However, you're not wrong that a longer barrel would have helped - slightly more muzzle velocity and a longer sight radius, so slightly better accuracy. Flyers of other nations did make use of long barrelled stocked pistols, although as far as I know only unofficially.

[@zaqzilla1]

I love these era of small arms. This is back when they thought indirect rifle fire was going to be a thing.

[@zaqzilla1]

Imagine telling an airman he needs to shoot at other planes with a pistol. He'd probably look at you like you're an idiot. lol

[@wernesgruder1]

That butt stock is actually the arm from a Chippendale Carver chair. That’s how classy British firearms are

[@dreamjackson5483]

Love the content. I do find it difficult to see the guns sometimes though I will say

[@robertlinke2666]

why did shotguns not work out? the spread must have been better for hitting, and early aircraft were basicly just wood and canvas, even small pellets should have done some damage to the airframe of ww1 aircraft. and if you take a big bore shotgun, like a 8 or 6 gauge shotgun, those can do some damage. sure less pellets, but should still have better chance of hitting something then anything else

[@ES1976-3]

Perhaps too difficult to aim because the pellets travel so slow you may have needed to much lead

[@johncoffin9354]

Not to be TOO picky, but hydrogen balloons aren't 'hot air.' We're so used to all balloons being 'hot air' that the syllables just dribble out where they have no business being.

[@WvlfDarkfire]

I've heard stories of apache pilots using their Berettas to shoot an enemies on the ground. They would open the canopy, take aim, and open up on the enemy. Unconfirmed reports of pilots hitting their targets with a 9mm pistol from a moving aircraft still sounds like a boss move.

[@VladSuperKat]

It looks like a Luger mated with a 1911 :)))))))

[@scrappydoo7887]

Ok when I see a pistol called an anti aircraft something I'm definitely clicking lol

[@Yoel_Mizrachi]

Am I the only one who thought that this stock is break open given the instruction photo of the video?

[@billballbuster7186]

I think one of the main issues with the Webley Auto was the weak cartridge compared to the US M1911. Standard ammo had an energy of 245 Ft Lbs for the Webley and over 375 Ft Lbs for the M1911. Webley never bothered to develop and improve the pistol, it remained as it had been designed in 1910.

[@chaimafaghet7343]

They're functionally identical cartridges. For the .455 you've either done your sums wrong or you're looking at the black powder loading for .455 revolvers, and as for .45 ACP you're just looking at modern loadings that didn't exist in 1911, 230gr @ ~820 ft/s is not "over 375 ft-lbs".

[@billballbuster7186]

@@chaimafaghet7343 No I used the published loading for the nitro Mk1z, 224 grain bullet at 700 fps. Some modern loads such as Buffalo Bore max out the .455 Auto cartridge at 360 ft/lbs, but not for continuous use. Likewise the .45 ACP+P will max out at over 500 ft/lbs.

[@chaimafaghet7343]

@@billballbuster7186 So you're just an idiot then. You're comparing a downloaded low recoil cartridge to a maxed out modern loading.

[@billballbuster7186]

@@chaimafaghet7343 Maybe you have difficulty with English, thats not what I said. You can also stick your insulting language up your ass, are you a liberal juvenile?

[@zoiders]

@@billballbuster7186 Could you buy weird over pressure. 45 ACP variants in 1917?

[@GrumpyGenXGramps]

Stock looks like the snack tray on a 1960/70s easy chair!

[@Sirsethtaggart3505]

When I first saw it I thought Lugar.

[@rogersmith8339]

Those semi auto Webly pistols are amazing bits of engineering but I guess it is what was their downfall. Simple things like you could have the magazine held down to allow you to drop single rounds for slow fire.

[@blue2sco]

Slight up grade from throwing house bricks at each other.

[@mikejfranklin7000]

1915 'Steam Punk' - there's nothing new under the sun!

[@dougcross8609]

If that was the intended shooting posture, I wonder how well it would fit into a C.A.R. Shooting system.

[@stevemc6010]

I knew of the base 1912 pistol, but not this one. Should've been in Battlefield 1 as a pilot weapon.

[@toldyouso5588]

Someone could have also invented a mustard gas spray at the end of the biplane tail to counter rear attacks.

[@90lancaster]

PLEASE someone tell me some took up guns designed for shooting Elephants and Tigers into Biplanes and I will so squeeeeee.

[@jonathanferguson1211]

Sadly despite a lot of research I found no evidence of anyone taking up big game rifles as they did in the trenches.

[@jonathanferguson1211]

@Cancer McAids True, but then I would not be surprised if someone tried, for balloon/Zeppelin busting if nothing else.

[@colbunkmust]

RAF pilots: can we get a 1911? RAF: We have a 1911 at home 1911 at home:

[@mattrobinson779]

Anyone else think Johnathan got a bit snacky for Caramac on this episode? 😅

[@tommeakin1732]

I'm a bit surprised you disregarded the shotgun as an effective weapon for ww1 dog fighting. I'd have thought that for such thin skinned aircraft and incredibly close range, a double barrel shotgun loaded with the appropriate buckshot would be a solid choice. Especially if you can get a guy who's experienced with shooting fast moving birds lol

[@Chaosrain112]

I may be talking out of my ass here but I would sure guess there was historical significance for early air corps to recruit all the good trap shooters and hunters from local clubs

[@tommeakin1732]

@@Chaosrain112 You'd think someone would have made the assessment we just did at some point - but then again, it's possible that the nature of aerial combat at this early stage was sufficiently unorthodox that it wasn't even being given much serious thought by the people making the big decisions. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject

[@Trash-can999]

I love this channel but please speak up. Just so you know , if nothing changes I’m still watching lol.

[@prettyokandy230]

it looks like when i tried to make a pistol out of legos

[@chooseyouhandle]

Butt stock pistols always remind me of Resident Evil

[@robertdeen8741]

Does Britain hold the record for fielding obsolete cartridges for the longest time? Was not the .455 Webley a Black powder round when it came out? Wouldn't switching to the .45ACP rimless round have been a far better cartridge by any measure excepting maybe the number of old cartridges held in storage? The same is probably true of the big old rimmed .303 British? Didn't modern propellants come on the scene a few months or maybe days after it was adopted? They couldn't of been sitting on too many of those could they?

[@DeliveryMcGee]

The Brits were the first to look into "modern"-ish small-bore, high-velocity cartridge with a plan to replace .303 with the .276 (7.2mm) Enfield in 1912, and Canada with the .280 Ross in 1906. Then the Great War happened, and .the modernization at Enfield was shelved and Ross's rifle only saw limited production because they had so much .303 in inventory already and needed rifles and ammo RIGHT NOW. And then they made more .303 than they ended up using, so the replacement for the SMLE was also in .303 because they already had tons of it laying around when WWII happened, and then after WWII, the Brits tried a 7x43mm/.280" rimless but were forced into adopting 7.62x51mm by the US.

[@zoiders]

Is there a service weapon that the .303 does not work in though? As every platform, be it the Enfield, Lewis, Vickers MMG, Vickers K Gun, Bren or Browning ran like a top with .303. No one wanted to change to .45 ACP as the performance of the .455 was more than adequate. 45ACP was not the universally available cartridge you think it is. Take note that by the time that Britain needed a self loading pistol they chose the Browning in 9mm.

[@jonathanferguson1211]

.455 was black powder loaded from 1887 to 1892 - that's not long, although moving to Cordite didn't increase MV either. It was a big heavy bullet doing 700fps - not great compared with .45 LC or .45 ACP but typical of military revolvers of the day (e.g. the French Mle 1892). It's a sidearm - they were rarely used and if used, it was at close range, without any enemy body armour. So good enough until the 1930s when it was replaced by the equally weak .38/200. .303 was always intended to be smokeless - the compressed black powder load was a stopgap to get it and the new rifle into service ASAP. The disadvantage of the .303 rim is greatly overstated - 7.62x54mmR is still in widespread use and is the same vintage to boot. 2400 fps was on the low end of acceptable by the time of WW2 but still acceptable. As to why we stuck with .303 and .455 for so long (70 and 50 years respectively), the answer is that both were adequate for the purpose at the time. Those of us who study and collect tend to think (with lots of hindsight) in terms of what's objectively 'best' but the military reality is the old saying "perfection is the enemy of good enough". The US and Germany are, I think, the exception in adopting *both* rifle and pistol cartridges at the high end of performance around the turn of the century. As noted .455 is comparable to many other nations' pistol rounds of the era, and although .303 was low velocity compared to many other options it was hardly alone - both Japan's rifle cartridges were in the same MV ballpark (and, again, the rim is a red herring in my view until machine gun designs make it sub-optimal).

[@robertdeen8741]

@@DeliveryMcGee sir a most excellent reply to my off the cuff, let's pick on the British comment. You obviously have consumed a great deal of information on the subject. Well done.

[@DeliveryMcGee]

@@robertdeen8741 I have a Webley Mk VI and an SMLE made in 1915 and 1916 (and bayonet for the rifle dated March 1918), I've looked into them.

[@j.robertsergertson4513]

The Germans wanted huge tanks and Guns ,the British wanted Huge hand guns ,that pistol looks massive ,

[@harryzero1566]

It's so sad that with all the quirky firearms that the UK manufacturers produced, we are not allowed to acquire them. With so much of our independence being 'eaten' away by WEF drivel, unless we start pushing back with increasing frequency our individuality will be lost.

[@jarzz3601]

the number two mk1 was the original mk1 not shit enough? I'm sorry I tried resisting this joke but I couldn't :)

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

I bet that grip safety bruises the heck out of your palm, if you fire it more than a few times.

[@northislandguy]

Back in the day when you can fire pistols to other pilots 😅

[@robertweller1137]

Loot at that watch! Proper naughty!

[@FryingTiger]

ArmoUUUUUUries.

[@180decibel]

it looks like a posh MAC-10

[@gauntend386]

Does anyone else see a Glock-esque design when looking at this firearm? Very different but there are a few similarities

[@ImotekhtheStormlord-tx2it]

this looks like colt and luiger had a kid

[@craigmccormack3255]

I'm sure this has been shown previously. Perhaps my grey matter is failing me.

[@matscaife9014]

Gyroscope

[@capt.bart.roberts4975]

My grandfathers, both got in and out of WW1. They'd have been better off throwing rocks!

[@alanfike]

With the first Webley, I'm seeing a P08 more than a 1911. Jonathan Ferguson, you are wrong!! This is a joke. Of course this is a matter of opinion. And I'm damn sure nowhere near the expert. EDIT: Actually, if you cut the barrel, I see it. The P08 has a more angled style of handle ergonomics than this Webley and the M1911(A1 -- ridges on the slide are a giveaway, learned from this channel) more closely resembles this on the back of the gun. Of course, with the exception of the hammer.

[@derekp2674]

I think I can see how the exposed barrel on the W&S gives a superficial likeness to a P08. However, the toggle action and internal striker on the P08 is mechanically very different from the use of a slide and external hammer on the W&S, the 1911 and, also, the later P38. See kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6icmGB5mNd6jZI

[@Жидараст]

what a weird glock

[@jonathanferguson1211]

British Glock... "Block"?