The Food Hall Epidemic

[@nathandaven]

I branched out a bit on the filmaking here and it was wayyy more fun to make! So expect more like this in the future! Thanks for watching 😄

[@ttopero]

This is so you! Your brashness is great LOL The way you’re taking an issue & digging into it is great. You have now opened up several threads I’d love to see you pull. Once you identify the issue, diagnose it, analyze the context & conditions, it’d be great to see you compare it with other areas that serve local items in a traditional Main Street and/or neighborhood setting.

[@indigoWavves]

I like to think the food hall epidemic (in ATL) is a lot of people's intro into liking walkable environments. Unfortunately, we're still at the "Drive to urbanism/density phase"

[@nathandaven]

Good point! Yeah, I didn't touch on it super (inferred) but food halls objectivley are great in car dependent communities. Definently a good starting point to proper town centers, if it can bring some housing and what not too nearby. It's nuanced but it locks small business behind a larger food hall company, instead of empowering them to operate out of real locations, which is why i brought up the Edgewood ave example

[@VuNguyen-fv5jl]

Destroy culture while we build more “live, work, play” hell holes

[@shivtim]

I disagree. Most food halls in the city proper are quite urban. Ponce and Krog markets are both directly on the Beltline, and readily accessible by foot and bike. Politan Row is on Peachtree in the heart of walkable midtown and close to the Arts Center MARTA station. CODA food hall is also right in walkable midtown and a few blocks from North Ave MARTA station. Curb market is on the streetcar line. Southern Feed is right in the walkable heart of EAV. I’m not sure how you could say any of these are “drive to urbanism.”

[@ab8817]

@@shivtim most people drive to the beltline. you can cosplay that its walkable or urban all you want but its not

[@ab8817]

its a very sanitized version of a "walkable environment" aka "a city." you can most likely walk to things in ATL already in 15-20 minutes, but people wont because it doesnt have selfie walls or cocktails or whatever. people think they want urbanism but they really just want to continue having their college campus style experience. meanwhile developers are let loose on the city and drive up the cost of living. but yay i can walk to a bar to another bar to another bar, and then drive home.

[@stevevarholy2011]

The "Food Hall" is the 2024 name for a Food Court.

[@razkrunk3169]

The real lack of a street food culture in most of the US contributes to food halls being the most economical place for small businesses to get started hawking food.

[@popcorn8153]

The lack of walkability is the real problem with US cities. I think it also contributes to other problems like political divisions and increased loneliness.

[@letmedie4524]

@@popcorn8153large cities like California. business owners have a resentment towards street vendors, so much so that they organized to pass an ordinance banning street in certain areas

[@barnacles1352]

@@popcorn8153 political divisions are not as deep as people make it out to be

[@issatoral5190]

I'm from New Jersey and recently moved to ATL. I was surprised at how many food halls ATL has but I love them so much because im such a foodie. I feel like there are few places in ATL where you can be walking around other than midtown so these food halls make it one stop shop and hubs for people to hangout. Other than Chelsea Market in NYC I haven't been to a city that has so many food halls.

[@ab8817]

go back to NJ we're full

[@collagen1738]

@@ab88178========> nj better anyway

[@princessjellyfish98]

Seeing how little Ponce City Market pays in taxes vs how the rent's climbing in Midtown and Virginia Highlands is a little infuriating ngl

[@tylerbreazeale9964]

I'll step up for food halls and Ponce in particular. As you pointed out, the rise of e-commerce has gutted traditional retail and foot traffic to commercial districts. The food hall model has been one of the few things that has bucked the trend of decline and successfully anchors commercial space. I think if we're being honest it's easy to see that proximity adds a lot of value to property around it because people like them. Ponce drives traffic to the beltline and the beltline's popularity has spurred millions in dense residential development to cater to people who want a taste of walkable urban experience. (Setting aside ACTUAL walkability but for Atl I think we take it as a step in the right direction) I don't mind they get a temporary tax break to help fuel the growth of O4W because what we've missed in taxing them comes back in the value created around it. I would take subsidizing a food hall over a new stadium or something any day of the week. Anyway, long story short I think we as urban advocates have to be ok taking imperfect wins. Are food halls perfect? Is it disrupting business elsewhere? Do they serve locals first? All fair questions and criticisms, but they ARE successful breeding grounds for small businesses, popular physical commercial destinations, and for examples like Ponce and Colony Square are walkable food options for thousands of office workers and apartment residents that make the walkable lifestyle more attractive.

[@nathandaven]

The context is really important! Its nuanced and while im critical of some food halls, i also do go to ponce quite often! Honestly what were seeing at PCM is one of the best outcomes for the structure, especially if the light rail comes. But I do wish the market operated in more of a community facing way, rather than the way it is currently, Groceries, produce, services, etc would be great to see.

[@onetwothreeabc]

​@@nathandaven There is a Kroger just right next to PCM. How would a small convenience store survive the competition with Kroger?

[@cameronpratt6164]

Just found your channel, really detailed and well thought out stuff. Always loved visiting Atlanta but it is great to learn more about the city.

[@JLundegaardify]

i ride my bike down edgewood from the beltline to downtown basically every day. the street is typically filthy, restaurants are sparse, the street car only serves half of it (who is even riding it, anyway) and there are always unhoused people milling about (nothing against the unhoused!). there used to be a serious encampment underneath the highway overpass but the city must have run all them off, to god knows where. there are no serious destinations on edgewood, even less places to park, and a lack of transit serving the street. why go there? at least krog and ponce have parking. i’m not saying that the model Is The Way, my beef is ultimately with automobility-centric urban development, and edgewood is a casualty of that type of development.

[@apierre6]

Honey, come here! Nathan dropped another banger!

[@middleagebrotips3454]

Former restaurant owner here, and I think this is how realtors make even more by making multiple tenants split the costs of a single place, and add lots of "common areas" fees on top.

[@WoodEe-zq6qv]

GenZ discovers the mall food court and claims it's a new wave in urbanism 😂

[@cyclicmusings2661]

It appears Google Maps refers to these as "Food Courts" but yes, even here I can count 4 or 5 examples of food halls scattered around my metro area. But back to that "Food Court" labeling - this makes sense as the food hall is a reiteration of the of the mall food court - with two notable changes. First, the food hall contains small local food establishments that won't generally otherwise survive in a standalone building + often being paired with craft breweries. This is opposed to the traditional mall food court which is almost exclusively occupied by national chain restaurants and devoid of alcohol for the most part. The other major exception is that since the food hall typically doesn't have a massive mall surrounding it with an even more massive parking lot around that, it is able to much easier fit into a urban setting. Yes, food halls are a sort of fad but if they can encourage more urban development away from car dependency, then they're doing pretty well.

[@urbanlumberjack]

I've been to ponce city market a few times. It's somehow very empty and very busy at the same time, like a lot of Atlanta.I don't get the concept. It's a glorified strip mall. No life, very corporate. Sweet Auburn is cool, I like that spot a lot. Local butchers and good meat there. Not a coincidence that Sweet Auburn tends to be ACTUAL small and family businesses.

[@jackjohnson3024]

Ponce was cool when it was new. But it's just another Suburbanite refuge now.

[@twobit5309]

Love this, can't wait for more!

[@KCH55]

Oh well, I have to make a comment before I could even watch this, I'm just hyped for the content 😊

[@serafinacosta7118]

Old concept repackaged and pre existing all over the world in so many different forms. In Brazil , it is called a Mercado Municipal. The most noteworthy is the Mercado Municipal da Cantareira , over Historic Downtown, São Paulo. The main building housing the food hall is a land marked Beaux Arts structure with ground floor and Mezzanine , original,y designed by Ramos de Azevedo. There are several other neighborhood halls scattered throughout the city , such as Ipiranga , Lapa , Pinheiros , and out the satelite cities such as Santo André, Campinas. All of the above aforementioned places are in densely populated cities and environs. Which puts the theory of only feasible in the burbs a bunch of malarkey.

[@destinyizkalling]

I've seen you making videos around town - keep it up! Really appreciate this style of local urbanism reporting. Cheers, mate!

[@nathandaven]

Appreciate it!!

[@thomas_delaney]

You’ve got a great editing style and storytelling abilities. I’ve got a feeling this channel is going to blow up! The one thing I will add about the Edgewood Ave closures is that they were driven more by high rent than a low demand. The landlords on the Avenue want to make space for higher end products, largely due in part to the beltline’s popularity, but not just because of a lack of interest.

[@drummajor101]

*would love to hear your thoughts on "the stitch" project that's gonna take place to cover I75/85*

[@nathandaven]

Plan to do a dedicated video soon on it!

[@drummajor101]

@@nathandaven indeed, great content, imma agree and disagree with some things but I thoroughly enjoy your perspective and work

[@washuotaku]

They created a Food Hall in my downtown area recently and they must have missed the memo of being affordable because the prices these places were asking were way more than getting food at a normal brick & mortar location. The "localized" food court scheme will likely be a short fad compared to recent brewery fad that appears to be sputtering out now as locations are closing as many are opening.

[@growingup15]

Meanwhile we still yet to get our first food hall here in Columbia ,SC :( Charlotte has them and Atlanta has them yet we are still waiting on 1. we were supposed to get 2 but none have been built yet

[@nathandaven]

Feel free to take a few, we have to many hahaha

[@growingup15]

@@nathandaven I would gladly XD

[@baddriversofcolga]

We even have two of them here in Columbus. Neither of them have great restaurants, though, unfortunately. And too many of the places are chains, albeit better than average chains.

[@jamesrivett6976]

once again big Nate D refuses to miss. great video man!

[@greenbrown7776]

I love the food hall concept, though I find Krog and Ponce too noisy and too pricey and just too extra. I liked food halls better in the 20th century when they weren't so bougie.

[@Katy-gd9xc]

Thank you for diving into the tax incentives! I mentioned this to a friend the other day and they had no clue. Would be great to see a similar deep dive into the Beltline and the development around that, along with the tax incentives

[@nathandaven]

I have an older video about this part of the beltline (its a bit cringe, its just in my room lol) but maybe ill do a remake in the future. Also have a good one on the streetcar project!

[@BsktImp]

In Manchester, UK Streford Food Hall closed only last Sunday attributing this to its last "tortuous few years" caused by "the pandemic, inflation, and the enduring energy crisis".

[@peaches1206]

Hi Nathan. Good to see another video from you. You always make good points thoughtfully and your production is good. I moved from atl 3 years ago. Living there was not the experience I wanted. It's still interesting to see whats going on. I lived in Morningside.

[@danstarr9895]

Fancy food court.

[@Aidanryry]

There's a food hall in Tulsa that has 1 booth that switches monthly for food truck owners or people with a business idea.

[@asaadlewis328]

Just discovered your videos! There are quite a few food halls in DTLA as well 😭

[@timmybmms]

Does it zap foot traffic from other areas or create foot traffic that wouldn’t have otherwise existed? Interesting topic. Thanks for raising it!

[@nathandaven]

I think it depends! Theres one at the CODA in midtown that I think actually benefits the area because of the already present density, also student + office worker context. But the Krog / Edgewood example, it's clearly displacing residents and businesses. Closer to Krog Market and Beltline you are the more success you'll probably have. But also, the density is awesome to see. It's nuanced! I'd love to see someone do a proper study of this (instead of me rambling hahaha)

[@scpatl4now]

There will be a lot more foot traffic when the streetcar line is extending to PCM which should start construction soon

[@scpatl4now]

I really like going to the Atlanta State Farmers Market in Forest Park near the airport in the summer when the local produce starts coming in. You have to get there early when in season because by the end of the day they start to run out of stuff. It's also the biggest one. It will be nice when the streetcar route is extended to Ponce City Market which will give it a destination people want to go to. I've been to the one on Auburn Ave and it's ok, but not my favorite

[@VuNguyen-fv5jl]

The traffic going there sounds like 3 level of hell tho

[@MrNaposey]

Another fantastic video.

[@nathandaven]

Appreciate ya!

[@genghiskhan7703]

I loved going here when i lived in ATL

[@ericew576]

Great topic, it needs covering!

[@BrittanyGates]

I've been to both Ponce City Market and Sweet Auburn Market. I've been to other food halls in other big cities, like the Reading Terminal Market in Philly. I think they all cater to both tourists and locals and I like that. However, I can see how these places can hurt nearby small businesses.

[@nathandaven]

Its definitely the first place i take people when they visit the city lol. Its nice having tourist destinations, but it can def be both a tourist destination and a local amenity when done right (pike place market in seattle is a good example!)

[@drosas85]

Wish Jacksonville had one 😢

[@reginabillotti]

I don't know if ive ever been to a food hall here in Michigan, and I only know of one in my state (the Grand Rapids Downtown Market). Hasn't really caught on here that much as far as I can tell.

[@GrifterE]

We have three new food halls in my area of Gresham OR. Many more in the greater Portland area. They range from great to terrible. Some times you will find one that has great choices of food, reasonable prices and easy accessibility. Mostly one or more of those things will be missing.

[@kingderald]

I was just thinking the same thing. There’s a lot of food halls happening in Raleigh and Charlotte.

[@goblinchunks7585]

such a good video!

[@nathandaven]

Thank you!!

[@Msimmo35786]

Loveeee your content

[@nick13sPage]

Looks like a gentrified food court. Good video, funny how developers repackage the same stuff to fit current trends/taste. Take the food court out of the mall and put in in an abandoned brick warehouse.

[@williammedcalf8754]

I hate all the food halls and live work play areas. It feels like faux manufactured culture that’s completely removed from whatever the history of the area is. They feel so soulless. Having a mall would be more honest.

[@danwylie-sears1134]

Ok, I still don't understand why the hospital should go back to having a cafeteria instead of a food court.

[@nisto1518]

If you like places like the Sweet Auburn Market (which is super cool btw), have a look at the West Side Market in Cleveland. It's a really neat place, and the area has a long history. The current market's been in operation 112 years, and there's been some form of a market environment almost in that exact spot for 184 years.

[@nathandaven]

I havent been to Cleveland but Ill put it on my list!

[@djwhite80]

Well done

[@InternetLoser-rc2vs]

the people long for third spaces

[@capestreasuresPtown]

Thanks for opening our eyes to something that sounded so cool at first, but yet again the mom and pops on the main st take another hit.

[@micosstar]

4:28 reminds of philippines "palengke" 's (means farmers market in tagalog) - mico p.s. came from youtube recommend

[@Prodigious1One]

I think that it helps food venues to have residents live above or in walking distance of their venues. Like Broad Street, Auburn Avenue and Edgewood Avenue, Abernathy Avenue, Northside Drive, Marietta Street and Peters Street.

[@LeetMath]

i think food halls are good as meetup spaces, for a group of people with diverse tastes. a lot of places like strip malls have numerous restaurants with their own seating but lack a communal seating area where people are allowed to bring food from many different restaurants. that is why food hall would be a natural place for a group of friends to meet up, or to go for a date.

[@RubinFortune]

I subscribed to your channel

[@bkr0127]

good video

[@ayeeeeeeee6240]

babe come quick, new nathan video just dropped

[@VuNguyen-fv5jl]

New food hall opened up in Dunwoody too. Shocker, it’s the same ahh cookie cutter shh

[@nathandaven]

Next, we build a food hall in your house!

[@scpatl4now]

So are the numerous food halls opening on the Beltline in the S and SW portions.

[@VuNguyen-fv5jl]

@@scpatl4nowmore restaurants cosplaying as buford highway eateries nice

[@ab8817]

@@VuNguyen-fv5jl food from across the world, made by people who aren't from those countries.

[@goodnight_soph]

I love food halls as a third place, but connectivity & accessibility has to be at the core. Otherwise you get these gentrified hotspots that are cut off and sanitized from the reality of Atl. Also, I dunno if it was intentional but it was interesting seeing the anti-homeless bench in the beginning and ending with the thought "who is this really for?"

[@mattinthehat55]

I agree that need more than just food halls but I think they serve an important role in cities. Starting up a small business is a huge risk, and oftentimes getting a small spot in a food hall is a good first step. It's like an in-between step between a food truck and a stand-alone restaurant. Plus, food halls ARE fun, and gets people walking. Having destinations along the Beltline is a huge part of its success, that I don't think it's fair to discount.

[@ses-ei7oc]

Hah, I work at a food hall and it's super fun. I was so sad when Noni's shut down. I do still walk to Slutty Vegan though!

[@timmy-oranguta]

Yer a wizard harry!!!

[@jamesbohannon5506]

I love going to Reading Market in Philly!!!

[@Dante3X]

🎯💯

[@saratemp790]

Instead of concentrating all the stores into one spot, it would be better to spread them out. Mixed with residential units. It's the same thing with that supposedly 'mixed use' place they built near the Atlanta IKEA. Where they put residential areas on one side, and that mall place on the whole other side. Not too much mixing actually. Governments just don't want to mix the two.

[@darren4664]

Did he show an actual food hall?

[@xXNezzuXx]

Food halls are just new age Malls; they will crumble to dust in 20 years with economic change or consumer desire shifts

[@cheerwine_official]

they just tore down my church in Roswell and they're building it into one

[@MC_aigorithm]

0:30 "could these food halls be causing more problems than they create?" 🤔😂

[@yankee8570]

There's clearly a need to make these beltline adjacent streets (and ideally all city streets) more pedestrian and bike friendly, to draw that foot traffic into more places. Hopefully the beltline can be a catalyst for development of other streets rather than some sort of cop-out (i.e. "We don't need to fix these streets because we already have the beltline"). I think it's happening, just slowly.

[@user-yi7zj3lv5t]

first im hearing of them. must be a thing where you live

[@krandlez]

The tax thing at the end kinda detracts from the arguments on food halls as a whole. It sounds more of a example specific issue than anything. It would have been interesting to discuss the walkability of these spaces when comparing the traditional businesses to food halls though.

[@nathandaven]

I did touch on this a little - i think in suburbia food halls can provide a great base to building town centers. Much more human scaled than old fashioned retail malls. I just fear theyre starting to miss the point when theyre in larger cities, where the communities are already there.

[@y_yy_2844]

... Food hall? I have never heard of that in my entire life.

[@reecewentworth5636]

A classic

[@nathandaven]

🫡

[@mattmattga]

common nathan w

[@RFergusson]

I call them bougie food halls.

[@AntonWongVideo]

Yeah, i realized that when i visited Ponce and Krog back in 2022 with them being near the beltline. Ponce was definitely more of a "drive to" place than Krog Interestingly, i visited little 5 points this past December and if the building had 2-3 floors and was longer with random condo towers sprinkled in, it would remind me of some of the streets here in Toronto like Queen, college, or Dundas. I've often found those streets to be very fun and lively while not being Times Square-level overwhelming

[@elchicharron9503]

Who's drumming?

[@benchoflemons398]

It’s called agglomeration economies.

[@Autepify]

i kind of like food halls :(

[@nathandaven]

Theres a place for them! Food halls like PCM are wonderful in a lot of ways, my main complaint is that they are too commercialized, and are missing the point of what makes centralized markets so great (pike place market in seattle for example). Would be great to see neighborhood facing amenities like grocery, produce, services, etc in these places instead of ~just~ retail and dining.

[@ab8817]

i think you are just developmentally stuck in college

[@Autepify]

um i like to eat food and be in a social setting with other people because its a nice change of pace once in a while in a world where interaction with people doing things outside of mundane life chores is rare@@ab8817

[@TheDansonT]

$30 for a mid-burger & fries energy

[@michaelcapponi2]

I'm not sure i understand the complaint. is the problem that the kind of food halls you're complaining about sap business away from other popular restaruant areas? even if there's something about the layout of the food hall that means worse restaurants outperform better restaurants, wouldn't the solution be for those better restaurants to relocate to these apparently more popular sorts of locations? i think i might be missing something. maybe i didn't watch carefully enough...

[@Nunya-lz9ey]

Look it’s something that people like. Let’s ask Nathan why it’s terrible.

[@DonYuJuana]

Sorry, Davenport, but for Atlanta to fit into your fifteen minute city with high urban density ideal (lol), it would have to be loaded with more trash like this.

[@hrtbrkrs]

i have a crush on you

[@roxieh.8821]

i was interested in this video but the way you end every sentence in the first 30 seconds ran me off

[@jontalbot1]

How-aboutery like this is boring. Who cares if there are 20 or 2000 food halls?

[@benchoflemons398]

Bros allergic to affordable food.

[@nealcollins4196]

Seems like a weak argument to criticize food halls because they cluster businesses together to make it more of a destination for people and increase profitability for local businesses. Having a freeze on taxes to incentivize development is nothing compared to the taxes that the state gives away to the movie industry.

[@linuxman7777]

Why are you so obsessed with the property tax, when determining if the place is paying enough in taxes. It is well know that property tax is bad and creates perverse incentives. An LVT is superior, and would help develop the surrounding areas.

[@owenwillard5409]

Is this your first time hearing about an overpriced food court??

[@westybestie]

Too many shaky transitions. Makes me mildly motion sick.

[@RFergusson]

What’s with this guy’s neo hipster way of editing and general vibe? I thought we all decided hipsters should stay back in 2004 where they belong.

[@Nunya-lz9ey]

Quit pretending to represent residents. Residents love PCM, the Beltline, Krog and hate the rail. Yea, I’m from here and so were my parents.

[@DonYuJuana]

My guess is that he's actually a transplant, who's going to school for urban planning, and being propagandized to worship ultra high density city development, which is what's harming what makes Atlanta... Atlanta. Atlanta is not NYC, Tokyo, Chicago, Amsterdam, London, or Copenhagen. It's Atlanta...

[@brians9508]

we can almost understand you. you need to speak faster and enunciate less.

[@ifithrewmyguitaroutt]

Such a good video. I never made the connection between Edgewood Ave's decline and PCM. I think PCM's parking situation is also worth mentioning. If you go there during a busy time on the weekends, you'll get stuck in an underground parking garage for a long time. And it's not located near MARTA, so unless you live nearby, you basically have to drive. It really is just a slightly improved version of a mall.

[@ab8817]

and theyre extending the streetcar so people can go from one bar or restaurant on the beltline to the PCM. no doubt people will drive to the beltline first before taking the streetcar. meanwhile long term residents have been petitioning to get changes to bus routes to go to work and fall on deaf ears. wonder why.