The Forgotten Ones vs. The Forbidden Ones {Lore - Spoilers All}

[@Levsa399]

Ok, the story Felassan tells is hilarious when you know it’s Solas who was in that crazy situation.

[@annana_boo2003]

How are we to take him seriously again after hearing all those kinds of tales tbh XD

[@carloszapata847]

Solas: I was once a sex slave.

[@sirgideonofnir6840]

@@carloszapata847 I legitimately laughed out loud because I read it in his voice.

[@inohalajian4151]

😂 true but solas about to make another mistake releasing them knowing they are pissed at solas they take me as they are not going to forgive solas worse everyone in thedas will be after solas like John wick but worse Hunted by the dalish and more

[@ajm1458]

my inquisitor with crimson vallaslin,,,, aight this is fine

[@LordSusaga]

Hearing your tone of voice in this video, I'm really sad we never got to hear Solas with a cold. Or just any wisened figure reduced to a state of "fuck it, I'm not in the mood".

[@stars-and-clouds]

3:04 pretty sure every one is pissed, will be pissed or has been pissed at Fen'Harel at some point in their life.

[@davewhitfield2553]

I love your videos. You are one of the only ones still doing KZbin videos on DA. Most people stop doing them after Tresspasser which is fair enough. But I think there are so many more secrets left to uncover. Thank you for keeping this up.

[@blessedwhitney]

Also the best put together DA videos on youtube. Easy to understand, not rambling, and well organized.

[@FightNoize]

The forbidden ones abandoned their "form to flee where earth could not reach" means they abandoned the option of turning in to dragons (we know the evanuris were shape shifters, like flemeth/mythal), which the ancient elves used as a way to flee the Titans/earth/pillars of the earth, which were causing earthquakes (like in the descent dlc) and destroying elven cities. We know through various codex entries that the ancient elves were t war with the Titans, and that Mythal actually managed to kill one. We also know that the elves were stealing lyrium from the Titans (which is their blood), probably this started with Andruil and her journeys in to "the abyss", which makes sense since we know she became increasingly unstable, an effect caused by extensive exposure to lyrium. What we don't know is why the forbidden ones defied the ancient elves...

[@givensurname1296]

Probably because the ancient elves were d*cks? They remind me of the Greek gods/goddesses - arrogant, petty, and spiteful.

[@shadowhell8378]

I think Kirkwall instead of being used to summon The Forgotten Ones or whatever the demon ones are. I think that's the site where are corypheus and the other ministers perform the ritual to enter the fade in flash

[@BelieveIt1051]

World of Thedas Vol. 2 states this went down near Minrathous, because the Archon responded to the Magisters shortly after they returned. But WoT has been wrong about many things, so who knows?

[@BattyButtercup]

I TOO AM OF THIS THEORY'S SUPPORTERS! Demon summoning would not require the sheer scale that went into making Kirkwall the nightmare-bait that it is. The primaeval "thaig" (thaigs were places where people lived & that place was NOT designed like one) is near-ish Kirkwall & whatever was done/sealed there may have corrupted the area. That Kirkwall was then built above this place is likely deliberate though I do not think its human builders knew specifically of the "thaig".

[@iloveyourunclebob]

@@BelieveIt1051 hmm I wonder if thats just where they came out at and both are right

[@boodstain]

It's likely the Forgotten ones were Elven Gods like the Evanuris who fought he Titans with them but were eventually corrupted by Red Lyrium after the Titans were blighted, hence the Red Vallaslin and sadictsic nature/memory of them.

[@recjr7685]

Actually, we did meet the Formless One. It was never outright stated, so it could have been left as an open-ended mystery... or I could just be wrong. Think back to the magi origin of Origins. A mouse, a human, a bear, and then it changed shape to a pride demon, and we were left to just assume that was its true form. But pride demons don't typically shapeshift in the games...

[@jonnyso1]

You clearly folewed its advice.

[@AncientAnt3y]

Robert Chaffins OMG SO DEDUCTIVE WELL DONE

[@SwobyJ]

Agreed.

[@Goodboysforlife]

so my warden... was the formless one?

[@ayylmao8375]

The Last Son of Crypto no

[@lumpyspacecadet]

So frustrating that DA4 is probably still 2 years away. :(

[@COOLAUSTINO]

probably even farther now, fucking EA, BioWare is going through hell right now with Anthem, and it's probably just going to be destiny/titanfall.

[@lithium84]

Hopefully they'll try to get it out earlier if Anthem is a failure.

[@COOLAUSTINO]

I’m hoping for the best and expecting the worst, EA still hasn’t shown anyone that they care about anything but the bottom line, they didn’t show visceral any mercy. I’m afraid of the possibility of EA just shutting Bioware down, but at the same time I think they kind of know what the backlash would be like.

[@rowanl3059]

lumpyspacecadet if it ever gets made if anthem fails I have no doubt EA will close bioware

[@BeautyIsJustAMask]

Lithium 2 problems with that. If Anthem fails BioWare will be in serious trouble and why would you even want a rushed out Dragon Age, that would make the game worse.

[@Failisse]

It seems to me The Forgotten Ones are gods of Anarchy. They have a Chaotic Neutral vibe going. And it makes sense then why Fen'Harel would be seen as kin to them since he himself was a Trickster and God of Rebellion. Whereas The Forbidden Ones look to be gods of Evil because their alignment seems more Chaotic Evil. The Evanuris seem Lawful Evil, but Fen'Harel seems to be Chaotic Good. He values Freedom and Independence above all else.

[@burningbronze7555]

I get the feeling The Evanuris were between lawful neutral and lawful evil with The Forgotten Ones being Chaotic in contrast but over time both became worse and worse.

[@luffyjam]

I think when the codex says that "escaped form" it meant that they were abominations who abandoned their hosts. Probably during that great war Solas said occurred. During the DA2 dlc where we faced Cory, there was an optional boss who used a plethora of disease and acidic based magic to kill us. Not only that but that same creature had to ability to shift into dragon like the Mythal. It could be possible that the Forgotten One associated with disease could have been that creature.

[@angrylizardman1472]

wait so was fen'harel save from being andurls sex slave by a forgotten one?

[@plainluke722]

angry Lizardman looool yh

[@samanthamurray407]

🤔 is that being saved tho? After playing through I think he needed it 😂

[@mythicaltie308]

I think it could make sense that the Forgotten Ones were fellow rebels alongside Fen'Harel, maybe part of his inner circle. This could explain why they thought of him as a friend. Maybe over time they started to disagree either about ideals or methods or maybe both. Eventually Fen'Harel betrays them and maybe splinters off to build is own independent rebellion, which would explain why they were angry at him.

[@etthealien811]

Just here to see how lore friendly my fave fanfic nothing is 😂

[@LiaraGaming]

Thank you for such a comprehensive video that also covers all of the confusion.

[@jonnyso1]

Dragon Age is full of Something Ones

[@parkerandrecreation]

I believe the Forgotten Ones are elves and locked away in their dragon form, becoming the Old Gods. There are 7 Forgotten Ones and 7 Old Gods, each with their own title/portfolio.

[@elzitcho44]

The Dragon Age must end, and we must usher in the age of dark.....oh sorry wrong lore my bad.

[@nelson_rebel3907]

Here cometh the Age of the Stars beg-

[@ZehnWaters]

The reason the Forgotten One was attacking Fen'harel is because he's still hanging with the Evanuris who he's, ostensibly, fighting against. Maybe their own rebellion is more open.

[@jonissesmarchadesch7025]

4:36 Glad I bought the ultimate edition for DA2 and obtained those expensive item packs. Those items really made the game much easier even on hard difficulty.

[@KINGMANJARO_343]

it's weird when you meet Imshael with Solas as part of you team one would think there would be a unique interaction maybe a familiarity or curious observation between the two but the only thing Solas says is "it never hurts to listen."

[@Lian1286]

Even if Imshael did recognize Solas, there’s no way he’d say anything because he wants Solas to tear down the Veil. Showing familiarity to someone who claims to be a humble elven apostate would raise too much suspicion.

[@KINGMANJARO_343]

@@Lian1286 probably true but being a pride demon or as it says "choice spirit" you would think it would at least try to blackmail him then again maybe even pride doesn't want to mess with the dreadwolf himself it probably knows what he did to the elvhen gods.

[@OccultEclipse]

@@KINGMANJARO_343 He’s a desire demon, not pride.

[@KINGMANJARO_343]

@@OccultEclipse It's probably because of it mannerisms i mistook it for a pride demon so that means all three of them were desire demons? Galixgang & Xenbenkek?

[@AndersWatches]

Felassan seemed well acquainted with Imshael, idk if that is of any interest in this topic of conversation.

[@AndersWatches]

dianna k regardless of when they met, they seemed to have an established rapport, which is interesting

[@moxis9260]

0:50 some sort of blood magic?? what do you think of the theory that the forgotten ones and the old gods are one and the same? (i'm still watching through your videos so i might learn more about or againt that soon :o

[@dcgreenich]

I love how done with the world you seem in this video it makes it more entertaining in my opinion than your normal happy go lucky self your voice finally reflects my frustration with the problems and Contradictions in the lore

[@octafluoride3368]

Tin-foily speculation (likely wrong): I kinda believe they are proto-being for Elf, Human, and Dwarf. Evanuris for Elves, Forgotten ones for Dwarves and Forbidden Ones for Human. Basically some kind of magical Pokemon evolution where sprites evolve into spirits, then spirit evolve into Human. Of course it is a baseless speculation but it is a decent enough placeholder for me to make sense of how things come to be in Thedas.

[@AncientAnt3y]

Octafluoride what about qunari?

[@yang6642]

SharpNo2Pencil I heard that the Qunari were the result of Elves being somehow mixed with dragons but I don’t know how true that actually is

[@Gabranicus]

And now we know that the Formless One is possessing the embalmed corpse of a high dragon deep within the Grand Necropolis in Nevarra.

[@karlkoskie2891]

From the item packs no one FUCKING bought! ...about that...

[@MaryDunford]

Me too. I bought them all. Clearly, we're still both DA nerds.🤓

[@borkingborker5567]

It's likely both the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones were god-like assholes who controlled separate factions of elven civilization. It is a fact the Elvehnan were not a unified people, but eternally warring factions.

[@the1stfallenangel94]

Well just connected some dots that people probably did already. But the forgotten ones were against slavery and so was solas which is why the forgotten ones saw solas as one of them 🤔

[@maxrander0101]

that symbol one the staff also appears in the dalish origin and is mentioned by tamlen as looking more human than elven (the statues along the walls in the ruin) also appears in the forest a few times in the other ruins scattered around it

[@FaeQueenCory]

Wouldn't the Forgotten Ones be mad at Fenny because he put up the Veil? (Like being mad that things like the library were ruined by the veil. The whole mortal-ification thing sounded all like it was a long time event and not a sudden thing like the sundering of library from the veil.)

[@therealnoodles7638]

Forgotten ones and Evanuris are stuck in the Fade. Veil created by solas keeps them there

[@GarethOfByzantium]

Geldauran sounds like a nihilistic megalomaniac who makes the Evanuris seem tame by comparison.

[@PrideBornAmadi]

Ah yes, the next set of major villains after Veilguard.

[@fosyay1780]

If they fled to where the Earth cannot reach, they either went into "outer space" or went deep and went into that sky below the titan.

[@GarethOfByzantium]

I get the impression that the Evanuris were mostly lawful evil and the forgotten ones were chaotic evil.

[@inohalajian4151]

Biggest mystery for me is Dwarven impire went to war either before or after Darkspawn fought the scaled ones commanders using scaled ones tactics.

[@blueblue4083]

I wonder if perhaps the Forgotten Ones were allies of Solas and he had to sacrifice them to help create the veil?

[@risingaphrodite]

Hey there! I discovered your channel a couple of days ago and basically bingewatched through it! I love Dragon Age, its vast background and its lore and you're doing such a wonderful job explaining it and making your points on various issues and theories. So you definitely got a new fan and subscriber here, keep up the great work and your love for the series

[@blessedwhitney]

Feel better!

[@BrokeBech]

Could the Formless One possibly be the Maker?

[@Peaceful_Hermit]

From what I could tell from this - Elves - Powerful elves were - Evanuris who were generals in the war against the Titans. Forbidden - Gave up their elven bodies and escaped to the Fade to avoid fighting. Banished by the Evanuris once the Titans were defeated Forgotten - powerful elves who were directly fighting against Evanuris once the Evanuris became corrupted dicks. It's possible that the Forbidden ones were a part of the Forgotten faction but ran away before the war happened. It's possible that the Forgotten ones were originally members of the Evanuris who, after the war against the Titans, turned against the Evanuris. Either way - Pre-War against Titans - Forbidden Ones run away. Post-War - Forgotten Ones pick up arms against Evanuris who wanted to gain dominion over the Thedas. What I'm really interested in knowing is if the Forgotten Ones were actually members of the Evanuris or if they were just powerful elves who were against Evanuris from the beginning. We all know that Evanuris were powerful enough to beat Titans, and then took the power/ hearts of Titans and became godlike entities. So yea, excited to find out in DA4

[@Makkovar]

So, what I'm getting out of this is, the Forbidden ones are basically just demons with various agendas whom we can destroy, while the Forgotten ones are more of a mystery, but possibly just rival elven gods/mages that fought the Evanuris?

[@BelieveIt1051]

The Forbidden Ones aren't just demons. They are intelligent and powerful demons, or high demon lords. They are basically individual people with Fade powers. Spirits and Demons are usually unthinking or one-tracked. The Forgotten Ones seem to be rivals of the evanuris, but not as powerful or as organized as they are. They were able to cause the evanuris a lot of trouble, but never overthrow them. They are lying in wait for their right moment. The Forbidden Ones on the other hand were easily exiled from evanuris territory, so they aren't as powerful. But unlike the evanuris, they are loose in the world (except Imshael who got caught in another trap for a while). Each of them was/is growing their power through various means. And even if they were killed in Origins, II, and Inquisition, they probably still exist in the Fade in their true from.

[@Makkovar]

I'm not quite clear as to what happens to demons and spirits if they are vanquished from this world, but from hints throughout Inquisition and especially Jaws of Hakkon, I gather that they take a while to reform and become basically a new personification of a similar type of spirit. Of course, being as powerful as they are, it is possible that the Forbidden regain their full shape and memories, but still I'd say we are rid of them for a while. Also, while it is true that demons tend to be unthinking, we have met plenty of demons throughout the game who were coherent and even able to trick numerous humans into serving them. Inquisition seems to posit some changes as to how demons "work" in the world of Thedas but even then we still meet Fear in the Here Lies the Abyss quest, and he (?) is not associated with the Forbidden Ones.

[@BelieveIt1051]

Most spirits and demons killed in the physical world are destroyed, and their energy sent back to the Fade to be remade into something else. According to Solas, that energy may reincarnate as a similar type of spirit. However, I think I remember reading somewhere in Origins that a powerful demon or spirit can survive the violent expulsion back into the Fade and remain intact consciously. This is definitely true of people who are killed. But I agree that any Forbidden Ones sent back are probably going to take some time to recover from it. Right, there are some spirits and demons capable of thought and reasoning, but the great majority of them are either unthinking and reactionary, or they are focused only on whatever emotion or purpose they embody.

[@DavidJoh]

I'm inclined to think the Forgotten Ones were rivals to the Evanuris while the Forbidden Ones were just high end servants who deserted their masters cause and retreated bodily in the fade where they eventually dissolved into spirits.

[@BelieveIt1051]

I doubt they were servants, but yeah, they abandoned form to flee into the Fade where the "earth" (probably the titans) could not reach. For that, the evanuris banished them from their lands. Also, don't forget that the old gods also existed around this time. They probably even predate the evanuris.

[@Mlemilie]

so... Anaris huh...

[@megspradlin7345]

Aren't elves basically spirits who've chosen flesh form? I mean, Solas describes Mythal as the 'First of Us'. And the manner in which their society is cut off from the very thing that sustained it or allowed them to experience the experiences and emotions of others in other empires/cities suggests the fade was capable of connecting them as a collective, which just makes me wonder if they were evolved spirits who taught other spirits about the experiences that mortals of that time period may have had. To give them the choice of whether or not to take form or shape. It would make sense then that among the Evanuris peers there were those who had names that seemed to hold more in common with Demonic names (Imshael, Xebenkek, etc), and explain Solas' own understanding of spirits and demons as a whole. It's probably tinfoil type speculation I guess; but, the story of Andraste/Maferath, Tyrdda and her own stuff, and Flemeth and her own story all smack of Mythal and her enemies speak of shards of Mythal and Her husband attaching themselves to people and repeating aspects of their history in a build up to some kind of reckoning.

[@nelson_rebel3907]

This would go waaaaay wayyyy back before the formation of the evanuris if that theory is true. I think somewhere it was mentioned that all things started from the fade and became formed beings. Like during the titans beggining ages. The Evanuris didnt rule until long after the elves first formed that much we know because they had the War that Solas talked about that lasted for who knows how long before they declared themselves gods.

[@Felsenkeks]

I imagine the forgotten ones weren’t really anti slavery, just anti them being slaves to the evanuris. We hear there was a civil war, so I imagine they just wanted more power/control to match them and the evanuris weren’t having it. Otherwise it indeed doesn’t make sense that Solas would lock them away too and them hunting him

[@mythicaltie308]

Maybe the Formless One will become a major antagonist in one of the DA4 acts

[@Dreiidrie]

The forgotten and forbidden ones disliked this

[@iljastalberg5610]

Wait ...aren't "path" are mirrors that elf used to travel with shape shift means they can travel via air (dragon form XD) Also i think Elf learned blood magic from scaled ones as powerful elven mage rose to power during war after with we can see Elfs with out brain and hart in their pictures as if husk controlled by magic

[@dev.0122]

Watching it in 2024 June and Dragon Age, the veilguard is being released soon. And the two evanuris might be the main villans after appears as fen harel. I wish the role of demons come back

[@dandereninja4750]

I actually bought the item DLC for DA2… and inquisition. I know they aren’t always the best items but I enjoy them. Also I hope the blood dragon Armor returns in DA:D

[@padawanjesus]

Seems like just different names/perspectives on the same.thing

[@vetrosinic5677]

I like to think the formles one in dragon age is the same as the formless great one in blood borne

[@evamagnusson1431]

I love lore vids because there is so much lore in the dragon age series. I read most of the lore in da origins but started to slack off in da 2 and inquisition. It's kind of like the feel I didn't do my homework. It's just nice to review lore that I might have missed playing these long games that I love. I'm a fantasy and science fiction fan and I dragon age has captured my imagination and heart. May I make a request I'd love to see you go back and do a run through in dragon age origins where you meet a blind Templar in the alienage and you enter the orphanage. What is your take on this rather disturbing mission. Also the mentally disturbed elf who warns you about it. I've also read the books of dragon age series. Thank you hope you get better soon.

[@davijones2369]

While the game play wasn't as dark as most would've liked. I feel like the lore and documents were dark and nightmare fuel. A good building point to the next game.

[@kainlockley]

How funny would it be if both the Forbidden Ones & the Forgotten Ones WERE the Old Gods?

[@rogelioregalado2032]

Twinder.. LoL

[@razorwireclouds5708]

loving the deeper voice tho

[@ZehnWaters]

I bought the Collector's Edition and didn't have to buy the clothing packs.

[@2bugjuice]

I wonder if these gods have anything to do with red lyrium

[@JS-tr2xi]

So are the forbidden ones also ancient elves?

[@josephmoore5422]

So Red Lyrium weaponized by the Forgotten Ones? It's weird

[@erikwilliams1562]

I am familiar with Egyptian and Greek mythology.....and the Elven lore still confuses the hell outta me

[@tyx8898]

Did Gaxkang mention Imshael from dai?

[@kingdomecthulhu8738]

What if blood magic was teached in few different forms leading to creation of a form of blood magic like karate vs judo etc this would allow for the multiple "origin" herd of all leading back to its likely accidental creation when magic first began over time new things are discovered and it is supposed to be found here but in another part of the world its been discovered in a different form so why am i reiterated here simple over time as blood magic branched out sects fade out and what is remembered ones again merges again to what we know as blood magic so example in dao dlc soldiers keep is avanrus discovering new secret or rather is he rediscovering lost secrets as there users died off and the knowledge was lost for a time all of this leads to 1 question is the blood magic we know the true full extent or is it been deluded parts lost and splintered if its 2 then we are mearly historians instead of visionarys...thoughts?¿?

[@windingroadelven]

So clearly the Old Gods and the Evanuris are the same thing

[@weedragonauts4729]

I bought the Item bundle in DA2...

[@jonnyso1]

In time the will be only The Dead Ones.

[@va1tiel]

feel better soon! I too was a bit confused about the difference between these two factions for a while, and the band of three was to blame for that. The codex in the Basin definitely explains why the Forgotten's would have seen Fen'Harel as one of their own, though if they have vallaslin that suggests not all of them felt that way about slavery (my vote is for Anaris). What I find most interesting about the Forbidden Ones is that their existence suggests that back in the day, switching form between elf and spirit was somewhat fluid.

[@Dsmbr03]

Enchantment?

[@kallianpublico7517]

Xebenkek? Gaxkang and Hybris, Imshael. The forbidden ones =ultra pride demons. Best mysterious quests in DA. But are they killed? Do we kill the Forbidden Ones? They were once Evanuris: "...for fleeing the people in their time of need..." but the Evanuris barred them from the Earth? But since we encounter them in game this means the power of the Evanuris' ban was unmade, faded, dissipated. They have no form of their own now, so they must take possession of others? Are they possession demons? But in game we fight them in their forms (toughest battles in game). So they have forms but prefer to possess others. Unlike Cole or like Cole? Just without the empathy. Are they lesser forms of the Evanuris. Except without Elvhen bodies? Also...the Earth? Who created the Earth? Not the Evanuris. The Forgotten Ones are more than Anaris, Geldauran and Darenthal? The Forgotten One's are not the same as the Forbidden One's? Are they different tribes of Evanuris?

[@aaronkennedy6661]

Another brill vid, lack luster welcome welcome tho, we all get ill its cool, just love the intro, u r awsome, morrigans son?? Get well soon xx

[@BuddhaLOKI]

Forgotten ones are probably Dragons. It's called Dragon age and they were supposed to be equal to the elven gods in reality the elven gods/mages saw these Dragons as the pinnacle of God hood and transformed into them attempting to make them defunct in terms of worship.

[@rogelioregalado2032]

Twinder.. . LoL

[@maxrander0101]

lol did no one buy the dlcs for the games before they made the points worth nothing i own all the dlcs from origins and DA2 due to them never paid a cent for any dlc until DAI but as i preordered the collectors edition it was not really that much

[@ilumi421]

This is disapointing, I was expecting them to be more powerful or at least impressive, not easily slayed by the player

[@dev.0122]

Can you make video about - Why templars should allow mages to live!!(templar supporter here) and about the war between mages and templars and what will be its fute and now.. p.s.- which side do you support mages or templars.

[@stevewalton7897]

daksh dullar lol mages use blood magic they die templars use it all the time but that’s ok

[@WitchesSound]

Sometimes i think the Forgotten Ones are the Titans, dont know. But im shure of one thing: The Evanuris are the Old Gods

[@ambidexterity1]

The forgotten ones seem like a more likely candidate for being the old gods imo.

[@dendrien]

I swear BioWare and any fantasy creator need to stop with that Love Craftian names. How the actual fuck can anyone keep up with the names. People say Tolkien made crazy names HAH try BioWares.

[@olafloikas3947]

👍👍

[@LindzLucy]

666 likes lol