The Four Ways Eurovision Gets Political

Ukraine's 2022 song "Stefania" could be Exhibit A for all four of these (even the lyrics were reinterpreted as a politically-charged lament for all Ukrainian mothers once war broke out).
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[@TheMalappapas]

Little known fact, in Cyprus its considered treason not giving a 12 to Greece

[@phoebedarker]

When we don't vote each other, every greek and Cypriot around the world wakes up in cold sweat, whispering "κάτι δεν πάει καλά"

[@-Sam-.]

@@phoebedarker what does that mean? It doesn't translate because its in two languages

[@henrivandecasteele6042]

@@-Sam-. it means “something’s wrong”

[@decodehead3363]

cyprus's televote this year...

[@mdza]

@@decodehead3363 the Cyprus televote alongside some other countries proves that it was a set up

[@itsfeliciatime]

Also a funfact for non eurovision watchers: everytime cyprus or greece gives eachother 12 points you can hear the whole audience booing them

[@solus8685]

Everytime they give each other 12 points, a puppy dies

[@nicole3742]

Yet when the Scandinavian countries do the same nobody says a thing. It's really ironic

[@hatman3445]

@@nicole3742 More like Iconic

[@nicole3742]

@@hatman3445 then why is it not iconic when greece and cyprus do the same thing?

[@javicillo_]

@@nicole3742 cause scandinavians only vote for each other when they have good songs unlike greece and cyprus voting for each other with the highest score even if nobody else give theirs to them

[@MortanAMrk]

Four ways Eurovision gets political 1. it will 2. Always be 3. Political 4. forever

[@ghoulofmetal]

Eurovision was made for a political reason so I find it hard for it to ever become unpolitical if such a thing even exists.

[@kaera11]

okay and

[@sleepingchannelsandbridges]

1. It'll 2. Be 3. Political 4. Forever

[@StanleyBoringWorldMusic]

4. Arsenal bruh

[@gicady]

Talking about political songs, people don't even realise that right now in 2022 Moldova's song was about uniting with Romania, joining the same train in a single country. It was MORE than heartwarming.

[@fogga2]

moldovan minimum wage is $96 a month

[@hexostatus4658]

Of course, for moldova and romania sharing the similar language and culture, only the history is different.

[@doorsYura]

Pretty obvious message. What is really strange is that still a lot of people still believe in "music without politics" or "sport without politics". Simply, politics is a part of our life regardless of what we think about it!

[@davidribosome4326]

Thats simply untrue, sports can be used as a medium for politics, but no not "everything is political"

[@doorsYura]

@@davidribosome4326 You may think so, but as i wrote "politics is a part of our life regardless of what we think about it" :)

[@FreckleAkane]

@@doorsYura You employed a logical fallacy. Do you know which one?

[@doorsYura]

@@FreckleAkane No. Which? Explain, please:)

[@giovanniscg8540]

People are stupid, and eurofans even more, do you discover it now?

[@besnikberishaj]

Lmao people get pissed when Eastern European countries vote for each other but when Nordics vote each other no-one cares and they say that the song is popular but that’s the same in those countries… in the Balkans, they will most likely support a country like Serbia or Greece if they send a popular song because they are influenced or used to and like the music they are sending…

[@mjm3091]

3:15 I mean, to be fully fair - it was created to unite after the war. Giving people safe outlet for international fighting fits into that perfectly.

[@overthinkingit]

True! From the very beginning Eurovision's organizers been pretty upfront about it not being just about pure art.

[@brem89XD]

I think this is a narrative that has been added in hindsight. At the time the EBU wasn't looking for unity but just for new broadcasting opportunities. The idea that Eastern European countries were allowed to join after the end of the Cold War is also a wild one, given that the EBU wasn't allowing them to participate despite having wanted to since the 60's. Eurovision being a creation of unity is just rose-tintend glasses

[@voronasira9460]

Interesting how half of winners being from EE is seen as political, but another half being from Western Europe isn't seen as poltical. Double standards much?

[@Snowshowslow]

Yes that made me raise an eyebrow too... And it also ignores the next ten years where the balance was much less even.

[@shhinobii]

Exactly. This whole Eurovision mess is a mirror reflection of a lie that is forced by modern democracy that voting actually matters. In reality....it doesn't. The only thing that matters is force. If you're weaker country and you throw a firecracker I'm gonna call it a war crime, in meantime I can throw nuclear bombs and wipe out God knows how many people and get away with it. Not only that, but I'll persuade all of you "free" people that my actions were justified and if anyone speaks against me I'm gonna call that a propaganda.

[@standard12th66]

More countries in the east than west + the east have closer relationships. For example, using the website in the video. Crotia gets consistent votes from Slovenia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, and Bosnian and Herzegovina. Meanwhile Spain gets consistent votes from Portugal only. The website they talk about in the video shows there aren't any western countries benefiting from voting blocks except Netherlands and Scandinavian.

[@overthinkingit]

@@standard12th66 Wow, someone actually used our website!!

[@serboslav1389]

@@standard12th66 So if Eastern Europeans are constantly giving each other points, how are there even western winners?

[@henrymei4911]

Thank you for this. It astounds me whenever I see other Eurovision fans complaining about the contest being political. It's always been that way, politics in Eurovision is nothing new, and I would say not even necessarily bad. Pop culture is naturally a reflection of current events, and what can be deemed political is extremely subjective to begin with

[@girliedefensor0506]

this is a really great way to put it!

[@L1am21]

It wasnt always political at all.

[@worldhello1234]

There is a difference between being political at some point - nation vs nation and being political to the point when it is not about talent and music anymore. There is poltics in the contest vs the contest being political. 🤦‍♂

[@stewartgriffin1718]

yeah no, there are apples and there are oranges

[@LegioXXI]

@@worldhello1234 ^this

[@samomuransky4455]

The block voting is overrated. First of all, we get very different results each year and over the last couple of years we've had winners from all over Europe, which suggests that people primarily vote on music. There indeed are some patterns showing certain countries as more likely to vote for their close countries but this isn't necessarily about politics. The cultural element is influencing this much more. If some Balkan country sends a typical Balkan ballad, their neighbours are more likely to vote for it because it's simply the kind of music they like.

[@Duck-wc9de]

Eurovision is chaos, but there is one thing that gives you that feeling of stability, wich is the fact that Cyprus 12 points are going to Greece.

[@oleksandrsuglobov8563]

@@Duck-wc9de and vice verca (if Cyprus did not fail to qualify to the final).

[@abird7823]

exactly

[@helloitsme7553]

You're partly right, cause that still doesn't explain why Greece and Cyprus keep on voting on each other

[@maca76]

@@helloitsme7553 i think that it can be for the meme too, in the beginning it was natural because of the alliance but at this point if I was from Cyprus i would vote Greece just because we can't break tradition lol

[@VUrosov]

That's cool, I'd like to add a bit about Russian participation. Russia tries to present itself as a cosmopolitan, all-equal society at the contest. Recent examples are: Manizha who has a combo of Tajik nationality and women rights/LGBT activism, Babushki band who are anti-agism and Julia Samoylova who sends a message of equal opportunity for disabled people. For years, more often than not, song and performer from Russia were not the ones who were most popular or most likely to win. They are selected because of the message they can represent. All of this at the same time as more repressive laws are made. Ironic

[@Booksandstrawberries]

I think Russian people and especially younger ones are progressive and open minded regardless of what Putin wants to impose in his country. That's what they try to show in Eurovision; they want to include and have communities for marginalized people as much as any other European country.

[@aykakatibli7249]

Russia is all about dualism ✋🏻

[@Ben_Hard]

Not to mention that the babushki sang in a minority language and local clothing too!

[@peacelove728]

Russia is more cosmopolitan than Ukraine, though, who is focused on ethnic supremacism of Ukrainian speakers since 2014. Learn the facts. The most pro-Nazi country in the world won, so celebrate (the only country in the world in which far-right parties are legal, but far left banned; the only country which openly glorifies Nazis by naming streets, museums etc after them.). Russia is full of trouble, but at least it doesn't glorify a mono-ethnic state like UkroNazis do.

[@solus8685]

It's like companies using gays only during pride month to look progressive lol

[@dmaneiras]

Aged like fine wine. Eurovision is inherently political and there's nothing wrong with that, except if you don't like the politics of a certain country, then it becomes unacceptable for it to even participate right?

[@johnphillips3475]

Please don't ever make the mistake of thinking anything the Daily Mail says is remotely accurate - especially on any subject that involves the word "Euro"

[@mentonerodominicano]

That quote by Jørgen Franck really says it all. The show helps maintains a negative peace to prevent real conflict as much as possible. I've noticed Miss Universe sort of works in a similar way. And I think what's interesting about the LGBTQ element is not only that EBU affirms the humanity of LGBTQ people, but that it's also a relationship that grew organically out of the show's embrace for eccentricity, fun and creating community around music and spectacle (similar to what happens with drag queens). If the EBU was hostile to LGBTQ people a lot of the most dedicated fan base that spends millions every year to get tickets to the show would not exist or would not be as invested in the show.

[@mervekarpov7305]

Russia (Sergey) won the televoting though. Leads to a discussion about juries vs public, and if the juries were reestablished to push a political agenda in an easier way.

[@overthinkingit]

Great observation! Honestly the purpose and impact of the juries is something we should have explored in this video, although I can't say I have a comprehensive theory off the top of my head. (There may be a difference between how the EBU wanted them to work and how they actually work in the real world.) Might need a whole other video someday just on this topic.

[@mervekarpov7305]

@@overthinkingit Thank you for the reply, made me really happy. You are now officially my Alexander Rybak. Voting system is a fun topic to overthink. Here are some keywords that might be related (with my opinions in parantheses) -East vs West (the competiton was repeatedly held in Eastern countries before the change, therefore the Western population was losing interest ) - Meritrocracy vs Democracy (The public was constantly blamed for picking trash songs, and jury was supposed to bring quality) -12 points vs NO points from migrants to home country . (Ex: Turkish migrants were pushing Germany to pretend to be besties with Turkey by spamming more than any other fangroup to get those 12 points. To prevent similar cases I assume juries are still in charge of 12s that represent the nations and public votes are accounted cumulatively. Even before split vote system, jury’s 12 overruled public’s. Fortunately the minorities do not get to have a representative opinion.) I think the most interesting years for this analysis would be 2015 and 2016.

[@stickofjavier]

Ukraine didn't win the Jury vote either in 2016, and it lost by a greater margin in the Jury vote than it did in the Televote (-109 to Australia, vs -38 to Russia). Russia didn't even have the largest vote discrepancy between Televote and Jury results, Poland had a larger difference. If you look at the years that the Jury had a discrepancy from the Televote winner, it actually just seems like Juries do not like traditional male popstars and are more likely to go with a simpler staging. It's also important to remember that the Jury is basing their decision off of a different performance than the Live audience. So it is possible for an artist to mess up in one of the performances but do perfectly during the other, which causes the audience to be confused by the Jury vote. Norway was an example of this in 2019 (fun fact, 2019 was the other instance where the overall winner did not win either the Jury or Televote). I personally think the Jury vote was probably brought back because they felt like too many joke songs were getting too far and that made Eurovision as a whole seem like a joke, as the block voting issue wasn't really fixed by bringing the Jury back. After Hard Rock Hallelujah won in 2006 and Lasha Tumbai came in second in 2007, it seemed like they were waiting for a year of fairly normal top 3 to change the system which happened after 2008. They were also having to keep a Jury on standby for each country during the 100% televote competitions because of the possibility that there would be issues with the televoting systems in some of these countries (or the countries did not get enough televotes to come up with a definitive top 10), so why not use them.

[@heppolo]

@@stickofjavier Russia had a very strong PR campaign that year (they were all over the socials with their ads, probably the first time I had seen that at the time) + Kirkorov whose name is a turn off for most of the sensible juries by default

[@schnitzelsemmel]

@@heppolo what was the PR campaign about?

[@anar_namazov]

I’m from Azerbaijan and it took me a decade to understand what that fabulous lady from Germany meant during the voting back in 2012 in Baku, Azerbaijan. wow, I feel stupid. Thank you for making this video 🇦🇿🔥❤️

[@tayloryoung9803]

@@virgo0991 she basically explained she supports azerbaidjanis fight towards a deomcartic state

[@danieleclementi3310]

Usually I’m wary when the word politics is discussed along with Eurovision, most of the time it’s brought up as a negative thing.., but I have to say I have to give you props in this video for treating the subject in a well informed fair and accurate manner I wish those people who say “ugh Eurovision, it’s all about politics” find the time to watch this up to the end

[@ljupkadobrosavljevic8267]

Serbia 2007 win was well deserved. Almost all countries gave at least 1 point to Serbia. And that is how you secure win.

[@Mikael-im5xo]

Serduchka was better 100x times

[@Milovely]

Molitva is a extremely beautiful song without that Serbia got any political lyrics or situation on it. The song just won because it was beautiful.

[@ljupkadobrosavljevic8267]

@@Mikael-im5xo In which universe?

[@YuraK25]

@@ljupkadobrosavljevic8267 You have a Serbian sounding name, just cope dude everyone liked Serduchka a whole level more.

[@ljupkadobrosavljevic8267]

@@YuraK25 If everyone loved it more, than it would win. In 2007 there was only televote, no jury votes.

[@snowmanscz1011]

Western countries have big budgets, eastern countries have the power of friendship. I seriously dont understand why 6 out of 12 winners from eastern countries should be something to worry about. It doesnt seem out of proportion for how many eatern european countries there are.

[@jaredsmith4964]

Block voting did not ruin Eurovision. The western countries didn’t take Eurovision nearly as seriously.

[@aprilhoy4010]

...and of course controversies related to Israel could constitute their own category, from Jordan refusing to broadcast Israel's win and claiming Belgium had actually won in 1978 to Israel repudiating its own contestants in 1990 because they waved Syrian and Israeli flags on stage at the end of their performance to (be still my heart) Iceland's Hatari challenging Benjamin Netanyahu to a leather shorts wrestling contest and holding up Palestinian flag banners during the green room coverage when Israel hosted in 2019.

[@lexezlao]

I think the syrian flag thing was from 2000, the band was forced to pay for their participation themselves there's also the controversy of Dana's win from the religious of Israel since she's a trans woman, though that one isn't talked about as much since the complains where quickly ignored (which is good)

[@yepitsthatguy5278]

I generally disagree about bloc voting purely because it appears political at the surface level - here's why it's not actually: - a lot of the countries in these blocs are culturally, ethnically, historically and linguistically very similar - artists tend to promote songs not just in their country but also in their region, so often a Romanian song will chart in Ukraine, Hungary and Moldova well before the contest has even started airing - the music industry in these blocs are not strictly within borders - many producers and singers work across Sweden, Denmark and Norway for example and so outside of eurovision these regional music industries are shared in these blocs every other day of the yar - the juries are compromised of music industry experts, so just like the Grammys, these music experts do not exist outside of the real everyday world, so the networking they do for the work in general often applies to the voting. You would have an unconscious bias towards a song your friend helped produce because that's just how it works! - Greece and Greek Cyprus are essentially the same people, Cypriot and Greek singers fly between the countries so regularly, to the point where loads of Cypriot entries are actually Greek and lots of Greek songs are produced by Cypriot teams so why wouldn't they share similar styles and biases! Otherwise great video x

[@crazydragy4233]

Exactly! Great comment

[@lexezlao]

Anna vissi literally represented Cyprus a year after their debut and Greece while they were hosting

[@cypriotmappers5342]

​@@lexezlao anna vissi also repersented greece a year before cyprus joined. And the 2012 greek entry was sung by a cypriot.

[@kirkhoffman3945]

la spagna allora dovrebbe votate italia e viceversa ma cio non succede

[@Cutiejea1]

This is why - in my opinon at least - American and Canadian song contest will not succeed. What makes Eurovision spicy each year is the political undertones that influence some parts of the contest. I had a riot with Iceland's 2019 performance and yep, Ukraine in 2016 was something and the 2017 song contest IMO was part 2 of that "drama" (lack of a better term). Not to mention, the 2021 song contest had covid warnings and each country had like different precautions (eg: Australia not flying at all and literally all aussie eurovision fans blaming our prime minister for not qualifying, or how Iceland in 2020 became so viral that they used as much of their popularity that they had and they ended up in 4th place... AND IT WAS PRE-RECORDED). All ASC and the song to be CSC have is just catchy songs and big celebs hosting it but there is no drama. Its just another version of "the voice". TLDR: What makes the song contests stand out from other shows like the voice and x factor is the lowkey politics and how it ties to current events.

[@MyBroSux24]

I think there are touching points that ASC would catch on with the ways they could get political if it would have been on for more years. I haven't heard about most of the 5 us territories competing, so national branding is definitely there. Also, I don't know if something like block voting is also going on in the asc, as they haven't disclosed votes yet and we need more shows to get statictical evidence. Since we don't know how the grand final will turn out in their final voting, maybe that will also include spokespersons for the state jury points, so you got that state-spirit as well. I definitely subtly felt the lgbt flag waving in the show for its first run, and i believe that knocks to policies like Florida's "don't say gay" bill might be addressed there in the future.

[@mimimurlough]

Which is also why it boggles my mind that they made ASC a purely US thing. A pan-american contest is the only true equivalent, and it probably would have worked better.

[@renatopereira810]

I hope both shows in US and Canada are just the start of something that can develop to a contest between North and South Americas contries.

[@samomuransky4455]

I think ASC could take off but it failed to capture what makes Eurovision so great. It's not politics in the sense discussed in the video but rather it's internal politics of the contest. ESC is possibly the only show in the world (certainly of this scale) where competitors kinda have rights. This is because the competitors (broadcasters) are members of the organisation that arranges the contest (EBU), thus there is a lot of power coming from them. That's completely different than pretty much any talent show, where one production team decides everything and competitors can only accept it. Additional benefit is a great diversity as each country is choosing its entry by themselves, rather than having one production team deciding all the entries - this is where ASC fails spectacularly.

[@helloitsme7553]

I don't think Eurovision being political is necessarily bad, but when it affects the results too much then it is. I want songs to be voted for for their quality

[@SageArdor]

That's where televoting comes into play. It's much easier to avoid collusion when the average person watching at home can help influence the final result.

[@kikow3792]

Give that wolf a banana then.

[@justanothergoth6544]

That's why we the gays matter, we know when a song deserves to be voted and the fact that there shouldn't be more than 2 ballads per year.

[@panoskrs968]

At least Greece and Cyprus have only one country to reassure some points unlike the Nordic countries.

[@lamington775]

Eurovision is what got me invested in European politics and history when I was about 10, so I've always been surprised when people claim it's getting too political. Eurovision is such an interesting reflection of current events and attitudes held by and towards European nations. The Armenia-Azerbaijan relationship is especially clear, with the Nagorno-Karabakh mountain ranges and the "unpatriotic voting" in 2009, as well as the flag dispute in 2016, which cover some of the points you did. If music is can be an expression of complex and personal issues, it can very well discuss political issues. Combine that with voting and presentation and everything that goes on behind the scenes, and you get some of what I've found to be the most interesting parts of the Eurovision Song Contest (but not more than Epic Sax Guy, he's unbeatable).

[@lunamagnoona1788]

The reason why eastern bloc countries are so prevalent as the winners in Eurovision is because they are really good at Eurovision, taking Ukraine as an example, Ukraine is the only country to be in the finale in every Eurovision since they participated besides the big 5 which automatically qualify for the finals

[@KasumiRINA]

Verka Serduchka losing to a Serbian song about lesbians while Serbia was giving independence to Montenegro was, like, the most political thing ever, too. SO we lost some we got some.

[@Hana9916]

@@KasumiRINA While I would never dare deny the awesomeness of Verka, Molitva was and is the better song

[@Nadia1989]

This video aged well

[@brokenglassshimmerlikestar3407]

Hahahaha it still explains the situation pretty well

[@el_naif]

British and Irish pundits have been the most active out there spreading the “it’s just politics” mantra as a way to justify a trail of poor results. Instead, it was more likely the abolition of the national language rule. Excellent video, although I think block voting is cultural and not political/partisan.

[@mjm3091]

I mean, if I once again frickin hear about Brexit from them I will actually snap. Its damn 2022 no one cares - give us something that wouldn't be eliminated in semis and youll get the points. Thankfully this year will shut those people up, cause its actually annoying. No wonder they quit EU, if they think people hate them this much.

[@mjm3091]

@ I am chill, annoyed af, but chill.

[@chriswest1234]

I totally agree about the national language rule making a huge difference. Though poor song entries played a part, too.

[@photoman3579]

Its 80% political......and most of the songs are crap

[@eevee1791]

Britan just has a bunch of mediocre songs

[@Enrique-ir4yq]

In 2008 Spain send a parody song "Baila el Chiki Chiki", a really dumb and simple song by a comedian playing the character of Rodolfo Chiquilicuatre, an Argentinian reagueton singer. A TV show from another channel created this song just to troll ESC, because in Spain we were tired of never winning, for many many years Spain was always at the bottom. This is a very famous episody of ESC history in Spain, everybody remembers it. The reason why I am bringing up this song is the anecdote of the slight change in the lyrics that was introduced for avoiding "political content". The lyrics of "Baila el Chiki Chiki" where simplistic, it just explain the dance and say that everybody likes to dance this song. In the national selection one of the lines of the song said the last name of two politicians. "Lo baila Rajoy, lo baila Zapatero" = "Rajoy dances it, Zapatero dances it" José Luis R. Zapatero : president of Spain at that time Mariano Rajoy : leader of the opposition at that time In the version that was sent to ESC this line was changed and they say the more generic and common first name: "Lo baila Mariano, lo baila Jose Luis" = "Mariano dances it, Jose Luis dances it" So even in a very bland song with no political message (in fact almost no message at all), this little detail was modified.

[@TaoNeko]

Can you imagine if no politic involved Ukraine won't get TWO wins

[@YuraK25]

2016 had nothing to do with politics of modern day, it was about the 1944 genocide. A fascinating song. Thus by that time Russia had finished annexing Crimea for 2 years.

[@michelasdisappointmentanda5527]

Actually, Eurovision is surprisingly apolitical, considering it is a competition between European nations, most of which have been in war for centuries. Yes, there are voting blocks, yes there is diaspora voting, yes there is racism against smaller/Eastern European countries and yes there are countries which are more and less 'sexy'. Still, somehow, the winner is always the most deserved entry (at least in past 10 years).

[@el_naif]

Of course I find you hear, Michela's disappointment and anger, the voice of reason.

[@mjm3091]

And even that changed immensely over the years. The block voting went down over the years - at least when it comes to picking the 12 points (Greece and Cyprus still are fecking around though). And with better online press (including 2020 event on social media) - a lot more love is given to countries that were demolished previously. I mean San Marino in the final? Nanana doing actually good and Adrenalina at least getting a lot of love online? We are changing.

[@michelasdissapointmentanda8513]

@@mjm3091 The only reason why Nanana did well is because of the massive Turkish diaspora. But I agree, especially in Western Europe the voting blocks are less and less pronounced. There is still a lot of racism towards smaller and Eastern European countries.

[@mjm3091]

@@michelasdissapointmentanda8513 I don't think it was just Turkish diaspora. Personally I think Nanana got a lot of votes from older viewers as well, as it was very reminiscent of some Italian songs that were going around in 2000s (at least in Central/Eastern Europe).

[@isabelametollari9261]

girl bye

[@strictlysunny]

Wish LGBT acceptance didn’t have to be seen as political. It should be viewed more as prevention of censoring art but I guess there’s more nuance to it

[@overthinkingit]

I wish it didn't have to be political here in the United States too but reactionaries gonna react.

[@henriquebregieira6523]

Talking about Political songs, in 2011 Portugal brought a song to Eurovision called “A Luta é Alegria”, which means “The struggle is Happiness”, and I think that’s the cumulus of Politics in an Eurovision song. It’s basically a protest on stage.

[@Analdelrey69]

It’s so sad ukraine can’t win without people being mad about politics despite the fact ukraine always sends quality songs. I love the songs 1944 and stefania, they were both my winners

[@jasastopar]

Imo in both cases the runner should have won. On 1944 case Australias Dami Im was 2nd and her song was imo a lot better, a true eurovision pop perfection. And in this years case UKs song wasnt perfect but was definetly a whole whole lot better than stefania.

[@skyla_]

For me Ruslana was better all of them. I still remember her even i was a child.

[@besnikberishaj]

Nigar has nothing to Do with the N word… Nigar is a Persian name with a different meaning and it’s pronounced differently… I guess western people act like anything that is spelt similar to something controversial they say “RACIST”

[@mariokestler5390]

Sergey deserved to win. Both his songs were incredibly good imo. 🥺

[@sarahenchanted]

The bloc voting in the Balkans is always fascinating. Some of these countries are known to hate each other politically and there's a lot of ugly history from the past 30 some years but it's kinda nice to see them still celebrate each other's music and show that the people have a bond despite what their governments do/have done.

[@milancelisac]

You have the same thing across Europe. It’s a completely normal and understandable phenomenon.

[@evapara]

Greece and Cyprus have the same language, culture, mentality, etc., many Cypriots singers have their careers established in Greece, Greece and Cyprus are basically sister-countries. Yet, everyone gets upset if they exchange 12 points, meaning Greece will only get 1 set of 12 points from Cyprus, and Cyprus will only get 1 set of 12 points from Greece, all when they ignore the fact that Scandinavian countries are the prime example of 12-points exchange, mostly to Sweden, which is why Sweden either wins or places high on the scoreboard every single year, while sending generic sings with the same format.

[@ohbitxc9793]

I’m from Ireland and notice our jury always seem to give Sweden 10 points - even tho their songs are generic as hell

[@onurbschrednei4569]

The German woman actually greeted in DUTCH as the Eurovision was held in Rotterdam that year!

[@xxShinyLove]

This video anyways kinda ignored the fact that while some countries do greet Europe in their own language, a lot of countries also throw out their greetings in the language of the host country, which I think is kinda more common, or at least it stands out to me more

[@ruzica1974]

Serbia, or any other country from the former Yugoslavia, was never a member of the Eastern Block. Yugoslavia was a founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement. I understand it seems complicated from where you're standing, but you should get your facts straight anyway.

[@didntask4793]

Ukraine’s 1944 does not get enough credit imo. It was using the political power of Eurovision in such a savvy way

[@Casutama]

I mean, that too, but it doesn't get enough credit on a musical level either. It's a great song and Jamala gave an incredible performance. It would have been my winner that year all politics aside.

[@Anna-zi7sx]

Honestly the block voting is my favorite thing. I’m German, but no one votes for us, we make a drinking game out of it

[@Efendi-khanski]

as an Azerbaijani who lives abroad for long period of time, can tell that 2011-2012 ESC was a key part for Azerbaijan to be recognized by millions, especially in Europe itself. whenever i am saying to my foreign friends that I am from Azerbaijan, they say about Eurovision. 🇦🇿🇪🇺

[@aykakatibli7249]

That’s nice to know because I thought no one even has heard about us 😅

[@Efendi-khanski]

@@aykakatibli7249 complex of small nations :)

[@svenw4680]

2:09 From 2013 to 2021, we’ve only had 1 former Soviet country winning (Ukraine in 2016), you could’ve also added that 😉. Other than that, thanks for informing and making this video! Looking forward to next week 🇪🇺🥳.

[@SmithyPL]

Well this week you will have Ukraine again, we all know why.

[@KasumiRINA]

@@SmithyPL Stefania was catchy, and Go_A and Serduchka should have won before. TVORCHI is underrated. The russia should be banned forever, long overdue.

[@benefit1984]

You know what would be the best way to really test Eurovision....Bring in all the 40 something countries in. Present the singer/s and/or band but DON'T tell which country they are. At the end, you vote by the performance and when you have a winner, you reveal the countries for each. Just to see. It would be hard because each country has to do a national competition to vote who will represent them. But it would be so entertaining.

[@missealvaheton241]

Honestly, how dare you imply that Estonia won in 2001 due to "Eastern bloc nations propping each other up". I used the website that you mentioned for the 2001-2012 time period you referenced in the video, and Estonia was clustered in with Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Monaco, Finland, Ireland, United Kingdom, Lithuania and Latvia (Estonia already had a connection with the last two before the Soviet Union, so in my opinion, that doesn't really support your point). Also, in 2001, there were hardly any Eastern bloc countries in Eurovision (edit: compared to the total number of countries in Eurovision and the number of countries in the Eastern bloc).

[@pinkbabycrocs5577]

Right, can't be possible that people just liked the song smh. So it's "ruining Eurovision" when anyone but Sweden or the UK wins? Guess order has been restored, since during the last 10 years the Eastern Bloc countries have had a hard time even qualifying for the finals, no matter how good their song or performer is...

[@overthinkingit]

You're right, our statement was overly broad. Bloc voting can never be more than a small factor in how a song succeeds, and to imply that those early aughts victories were somehow unearned is unfair to the talented performers who won those years.

[@missealvaheton241]

@@overthinkingit I appreciate your reply, thank you. I also wanted to compliment you on the EVE tool, it was easy to use and it seems really well-made, cool project! :)

[@RDrRD1989]

@@pinkbabycrocs5577 Yes. Serbia won in 2007 because Molitva was the best song that year.

[@aideaideaide]

hello from 2024 this video aged ....interestingly

[@nickklavdianos5136]

Yes, Cyprus and Greece didn't vote for each other....

[@babygrogu845]

Correct me if I am wrong - I believe that discussion about bloc voting began heavily after 2001 (though my parents tell me that Eurovision was always considered to be politically influenced in one way or another, but the winner was decided by the juries, not by public), the year Estonia won with 75% of all available points - and that makes the song "Everybody" the 12th most successful winner in the ESC history. Nice result for entry that 'must have won on the basis of bloc voting'... Btw. I am from Croatia, no connections to Estonia whatsoever, this is just an example (and my favourite from that year was Denmark), but what I am trying to say is that it is not possible to win ESC relying solely on your neighbourghs'votes - 5 sets of 12 points would not have been enough for Estonia to win (add more 12s and a few 10s and 8s)- and I do not think UK, Malta or Slovenia are baltic countries. And my favourite ESC winners came from the public alone voting era - please someone find me better entry than Fly On the Wings of Love, Everyway That I Can (my personal favourite winner of all times), WILD DANCES!!!, My Number One (okay maybe Let Me Try), Molitva.... Eventually the best entry with the best performance wins, it was especially obvious during early 2000s when the peoples decided❤ Sorry for a way too long and probably incoherent post, but I really love Eurovision❤, and I hate when sb says it is all political (not that it is branded like that in this video, actually the whole hypothesis the video is actually very argumentatively and intelligently analysed).... That being said, I do not think for a second that Ukraine will win ESC 2022 (maybe Alina Pash would have won for non-political and music-related reasons)

[@anonymouse8124]

"I do not think for a second that Ukraine will win ESC 2022" Think again. They won, and deservedly so twice over.

[@karcavida3250]

I do not think for a second that Ukraine will win ESC 2022 that one aged like sour milk LMAO poyy :*

[@xxShinyLove]

I'm sorry but the only way Ukraine wouldn't have won is if they sent in a song that couldn't appeal to literally any juror ever, they could've sent the most boring shit with bad staging and they still would've dominated the televote

[@finley3186]

5. Germanys points should be as low as possible....

[@Tobi-ln9xr]

11:37 her song was not anti-russian but anti-soviet.

[@nixiontm]

Doubtful, as it was in 2016 when the Russia-Ukraine division was still fresh.

[@chriswest1234]

Just discovered this channel. It gets exactly how Eurovision is both daft and serious - and all things in between at the same time. Brilliant!

[@superymariowest2403]

Ukraine won this year, some say it's only due to political reasons. My responses are: A. Just because you didn't like the music that doesn't mean it wasn't worthy of winning and B. How is that a bad thing?

[@crazydragy4233]

People want competitions to have integrity. As if they're not entertainment for money first lol

[@user-et8vm9cc3t]

They absolutely did. If you watched the competition, at some point Great Britain and Spain (if I recall correctly) were leading, then they asked the jury and suddenly somehow Ukraine was the big winner. Where's the integrity in that? A. Yes, it was crap. B. That's a song contest, the main thing there should be which country presents the nicest song, not some Twitter-like political mess.

[@nixiontm]

How is it a bad thing? Maybe people are fed up with politics being shoved down their throats everywhere they look? A music competition is not a place for virtue signalling and propaganda.

[@tijmenwillard2337]

You forgot the 2014 entries about the ticking time bomb and the inseparable twins for politically charged lyrics

[@daviducockny]

So well dissected. You've gone beyond the surface of it all which usually loses me. Congratulations you have seriously thought this through.

[@Duck-wc9de]

And dont forget that eurovision 1974 was the code for the portuguese military to prepare themselfs for the Carnation revolution

[@bumbumtras85]

What?

[@j-fdesiron7813]

But songs about peace, freedom, solidarity and so on, are allowed in the Eurovision. However, these are political themes too !

[@pinzariumariusandrei9451]

Okey but u can make a voting system that would not be so political influenced LMAO...

[@Dule-my1yc]

We can also argue the showcasing of Western values can be seen in Eurovision performances being conducted in English. There are very few songs nowadays which are sung in traditional languages, now the trend is more toward singing in English

[@sarivah_musicdiary]

Interesting video, although Israel's brand building was not discussed. Or Moroccanoil as the main sponsor of Eurovision...

[@tinatdraws9414]

Yeah agree, this was lacking for me as well, otherwise great video!

[@theo_2949]

What is the sponsor

[@sarivah_musicdiary]

@@theo_2949 Moroccanoil, from Israel 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@Cccccc00099]

8:57 Update: Ukraine this year (2022) as well

[@jesushentaichrist5362]

it's called eurovision song contest, you would think it's about songs competing and not politics 😔

[@crazydragy4233]

Ah yes, because entertainment has always been so pure from those! I understand people are tired of politics but... what you talk about is non existent.

[@jesushentaichrist5362]

@@crazydragy4233 non existent? from the top of my head i can name the Olympics, that's a competition that doesn't involve anything extra. i could even name Yugioh tournaments cuz im watching a video right now about that topic XD. That's also fair and well withing the rules, nothing extra :/

[@frsanfi]

Hands down, this is the best video I've ever seen about ESC and politics.

[@kc9music]

It’s interesting about the voting and 2016. How the voting system worked prior to the 2016 contest would have meant Ukraine wouldn’t have won and it would have been Australia who would have won because the votes were awarded to acts combining the jury and public votes together. But the voting system changed in 2016, where they separated the jury and public voting bringing in the factors you spoke of with the public vote as well as the fact much of European voting public confused why Australia was even in the contest (we - Australia can compete in the contest because we are members of the EBU). Australia had won the Jury votes that year. Ukraine won over all because of the jury vote. The political voting is more with the public vote than with professional juries.

[@majasrbia]

Political ? Maybe ... But voting by jury can be even more (!!!) political then voting by people ... instead of looking for some crazy connections like "ex - communist " countries, how about similiar or even the same language... Greece and Cyprus- omg , same nation... Of course they will vote for each other ! Balkan - same language, same roots, same people , we listen "OUR" music , meaning- it doesn't matter from which ex- Yu country it comes , it's OUR music... Ex- SSSR - one fact - in many of ex SSSR countries there is Russian minority which is sometimes up to 50 % of population, mostly natives there ... Russian language is wide spoken by Russians and non- Russians... They have also a lots of mixed marriages .. Politics - its something that divide us 😛, bcs we are stupid and we allowed it 🙄, ... but music - its something that connect us ... Its NOT about communism, pretty much we all HATE communism, but it's about same culture, slavic culture, same roots , same or very similar rhythm, same or similar language.... For example , someone who's superstar in Croatia is also superstar in every single ex-Yu country. When Croatia plays football against, let's say England, ofc people from ex- YU will support Croatia . It's normal and natural. We are ours . As I said - many Slavic countries are just divided by politics in so called (and sometimes fake ) " nations " , divide et impera kinda thing ... In every other aspect- we support our people ...

[@mikhaelrosenbeg]

1983 Ofra Haza from Israel on German soil with the act of "Khay" (alive): "Alive, alive, alive, yes, I'm still alive ! That's the song my grandfather sang to my father and today I sing I am still alive, alive, alive, the Jewish people alive ! That's the song my grandfather sang to my father and today I sing" Can an Eurovision act be any more political defiance?

[@arcticelephant4721]

2022: let me introduce myself

[@lmpeto94]

Balkan people vote for balkan countries sending in balkan music, surprising! Jokes aside, loved Moldova this year. They usually bring ethnic inspired catchy party music. And last years winner had some political backing aswell, they are openly supporting LGBT and sung in their home language.

[@melkersvensson6050]

Music is just another way of expressing one’s thoughts and emotions, no matter what genre or situation. And there is nothing wrong about that 😊

[@TaikiFouLung]

tbh I think there are even more than these 4 ways. If the EBU excludes countries, that's suuper politcal too. If a country can or cannot broadcast it and many more, like hatari holdingup a palestine banner while they competed in Israel. Hosting the Contest is like a magnifying glass on a country

[@colchis.]

Lol "We don't wanna Put In" 😂

[@20quid]

Is it really politics, or is it just that countries that are geographically or linguistically similar are more likely to have similar cultures and therefore like the same types of songs.

[@EurovisionSlovenia]

i agree

[@pingu6028]

It's both...Makes sense that countries vote for each other cuz they actually understand the song (or at least a little bit) but there are countries that vote each other no matter what and this year for example I could tell u Ukraine was gonna win before I heard any of the songs.

[@davebeat]

They did a dirty on Austria this year.

[@forevermore9431]

Thank you for this video. I always get annoyed by people who complain about politics in Eurovision. Politics are cricumstances that influence artists and viewer, there is not really a way to separate it. It also ties with freedom of speech and artistic freedom. It adresses issues that people care about and give them away to express it.

[@musikkritisk]

It's impossible for Eurovision not to be political, the core of the contest itself is. It's made with public money, so from there it's public and political. I love all this video. You did quite the job to explain well with few.

[@musikkritisk]

We all are political animals too, so it's impossible not to be political watching Eurovision :v

[@shroomer8294]

Deciding what is and isn’t political is in and off itself political. The EBU only allows the politics that fit inside of the utopian vision of Europe they want to create with Eurovision where we’re all harmoniously living together, it’s why they won’t ban Israel for committing genocide.

[@TMan786]

5. Letting Israel and Australia into a European competition.

[@user-nb8gr8ef5i]

Hello from Greece 🇬🇷. Why do always people refer to us and Cyprus on the matter of voting. I mean we do not even see each other as different ethnically. And so many countries in Europe do the exact same thing, but of course western Europe is always unbiased when voting, right?😂🤡🤡🤡

[@overthinkingit]

Yes, we understand you are culturally very similar but that doesn't explain why you guys vote for each other REGARDLESS OF SONG QUALITY.

[@EurovisionSlovenia]

@@overthinkingit yeah but most of the entrants that represent cyprus are actually from greece

[@crazydragy4233]

@@overthinkingit Come on, cultural blocks are so easy to understand. They literally represent you because of similarity. Who doesn't vote for themselves? Very few people that's who

[@girliedefensor0506]

Something as big as Eurovision of course you would see some politics in there. But we're here for the art and the songs and kudos to all artists!

[@ana_bananass]

"That's like complaining the icean is too wet, and that the Kardashian's is not actually a documentary" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Great video! Subscribed immediately after this comment.

[@user-yw4fz6xk2j]

I haven't seen Eurovision since 2016 and I'm glad.

[@staticshockk]

Croatia and Slovenia threw politics aside though by giving Serbia their 12 points.

[@zpduzghr1301]

And of course voting is very fair and not biased in western europe. The same parties in power for the last 30 years.

[@aggelosaggelos5696]

Greece and Cyprus are essentially made from the same people,besides,all the Norwegian countries do that every year, every time

[@adamtideman4953]

Norwegian countries 🤣Please sir, never edit this comment.

[@mirunagiugal6628]

romania and moldova exchange 12 points almost every year lol

[@roelandoosterom6310]

That was in the polls for this year's Eurovision. It is sympathy to Ukraine for whats happening right now. In a amount of more then 400 points is something you can questioning about it..

[@Iknowthismeme]

The fact that every thing could be considered propaganda makes the first point a bit useless, also I find it obvious that countries with similar cultures and shared history tend to vote each other. The third point is pretty obvious (at least for what I think) because I don’t know what values other than “eastern” ones would be showcased in a show where only eastern countries participate. 1) democracy: people like to interact with what they’re seeing, if they couldn’t vote the contest would lose at least half its views. 2) pluralism: that is actually political, but in the EU I think it’s pretty basic and accepted, we’re used to it. 3) lgbtq acceptance: If an artist wants to make a song about being gay and it gets popular enough to qualify for Eurovision then it’s not propaganda, it means that people probably like that song. 4) That point made sense, even if I find it less influential/noticeable compared to your other points (if they were as big as you told them).

[@serious_nigga]

You sounded like you were making a point until you stopped making any point. Talent, skill and gift is all that should matter in a contest not democracy or LGBT acceptance or any of these things you listed.

[@Iknowthismeme]

@@serious_nigga the contest isn't in fact about democracy, at least not about the televote. The televote is not an ideological move, but a marketing one. For the LGBT one I recognize that it changes according to your opinion. For me it's more about the freedom of what the singers want to say, even if sometimes there's an actual promotion of LGBT acceptance. But I still find it a bit too forced to say that it's all planned, but rather a mix of normal actions and some planned ones.

[@crazydragy4233]

I dunno if I'm misunderstanding but I suppose you're iffy about the implied meaning of propaganda in the video? Because most things indeed are propaganda. It's not an inherently negative thing

[@Iknowthismeme]

@@crazydragy4233 I think that what the video calls propaganda isn't always propaganda, but a mix of propaganda and non-political artistic/marketing choices. Let's say that I find some points of this youtuber a bit forced.

[@mattanne5269]

The whole story of Ukraine in 2016 is misleading - in the public vote they got less points than Russia. Ukraine won thanks to the jury points.

[@sadershape]

I remember my gf at the time really loved Russian participant, she was so happy when he won by votes, but when juries told that Ukraine won, her heart was broken 😅, we were 14 at the time so we knew shit about politics, now the image is much more clear

[@machinegunriff]

One political song I never hear anyone talk about is Greece's 1995(?) Pia prosefhi, which was a direct call of distress about the Macedonian issue. The opening line is literally an ancient and Greek passage talking about people who "disgraced a land without recognising the hubris they were performing". Side note: I'm Greek and I felt pointing it out is only fair, I could've denied it in favour of my country's interests, please don't start debates in the replies.

[@sirprintalot]

Should have mentioned Dancing Lasha Tumbai in the 'thinly veiled political message' section, once you realise what Lasha Tumbai rhymes with it's clear. It's "The Shaman - Ebeneezer Goode slyly referencing drugs" of the Eurovision world

[@overthinkingit]

You know I actually started to write about that and then I got confused trying to understand the Orange Revolution and I decided that two examples were enough!

[@OBrasilo]

Should have also mentioned Greenjolly's "Razom nas bahato" from 2005, which was in fact the anthem of the Orange Revolution and the original lyrics explicitly mention Viktor Yushchenko, but the EBU had them remove that part.

[@muddyfeet69]

I ♥ Overthinking It - everything is "on point" there.

[@LadyNici]

That Love Love Peace Peace song, was on the same page as you. Sweden used it to show the contestants a mirror.

[@SonicAvalanche]

Mh17 was another factor in Russia's declining reputation, especially in the West

[@BiteBolt_77]

Belgium and the Netherlands aren't really a bloc though😂

[@tomasstefanomartinomora7125]

Uhm, kind of, but not really, Belgian languages are French and DUTCH, so it has a very close relationship with the Netherlands

[@BiteBolt_77]

@@tomasstefanomartinomora7125 Bruh i am Dutch, You don't have to explain Belgium to me. BUt if we specifically look at recent Eurovision then there isn't really a bloc between the Netherlands and Belgium.

[@tomasstefanomartinomora7125]

😮I get it now, u have a point fr

[@scouseofhorror104]

Can I just... not sure what year but Croatia.. 'Never Say Goodbye'... one of my favourite ESC songs of all time.

[@babygrogu845]

Thank you, I am Croatian, and "Don't Ever Cry" is my fav Croatian entry❤ - it was 1993, out first entry ever (I wasn't even born). Croatia was in the middle of a war and the song was actually favourite to win according to the bookies

[@arcticelephant4721]

1993

[@dannyesse3043]

Politically charged songs are not admitted if they don’t match the Eurovision Agenda. If they do then they are admitted.

[@JeanB-br9nw]

I would start to worry about the political influence of the contest if it's obvious that bad songs win over the better. In the years since televoting was introduced, the winner always participated with a relatively good song.

[@ameliecarre4783]

And who gets to decide which songs are good and which aren't ? It's so subjective anyway.

[@berk6479]

Georgia's entry was fire that year and my second favourite entry after France's.

[@FireLionLV]

I am pretty sure, the same thing with Ukraine happened this year (2022).

[@patrickthomson8299]

The website's pretty cool, would be good to see the stats from 2018 through to the present (2022)

[@ichneu5713]

I gather there is a fourth sign of ESC getting political. It is common knowledge that Russia as well as its ally Belarus have been banned from participation. But the possibility of their betting in the Odds has been retained. To my mind this is the reason why Russia's "unfriendly" countries have been pushed down deeper and deeper, trying to influence the outcome in Turin. Otherwise I do not understand in which way the masterpiece song of Lithuania could appear at the very bottom of the Odds.