The FUTILE Production of JOKER: Folie à Deux

[@FrameVoyager]

For me personally, I have to say I enjoyed watching this in IMAX. I'm conflicted, though, on what I think about the movie as a whole because I don't think this was a super necessary sequel. But you have to give Director Todd Phillips some credit for not just repeating the same formula in making the sequel and really taking a WILD swing creatively. Even if that wild swing missed the mark for a lot of people. In the end, a LOT of people throwing around opinions about this film. IGNORE the reviews and go enjoy seeing it!

[@NebLleb]

@@Gametester110-qf8vs [GROAN]... Must EVERY video about movies attract media illiterate and pissed off Redditors?

[@NebLleb]

@@Gametester110-qf8vs [GROAN] Why must EVERY video about film attract perpetually angry people out to overhate on stuff?

[@FrameVoyager]

@@NebLleb because people can't just say the don't like something and acknowledge other people might 😅 to me we should be happy other people like films we don't, if the world was full of things only I liked it would be boring.

[@marsgrey8964]

It’s refreshing to see a thoughtful video that delves into the nuances of this film, rather than the usual edgy outrage from those who seemed indifferent to the first movie. Many critics are judging this sequel not on its own merits, but rather based on their expectations of what it 'should' have been. This tendency to project preconceived notions onto a film can detract from its actual content and artistic intent. Instead of appreciating the unique direction this sequel takes, some viewers are caught up in their disappointment, which often overshadows the genuine storytelling and character development that is present.

[@FrameVoyager]

Yeah, I don't always love a lot of the discord on KZbin surrounding film reviews. All of it just feels constantly toxic. I really just like taking a look at how the films were made, even if some of the ones we cover bomb from time to time. Also, comic book films are always so annoying because people are always mad about something haha

[@rokor3578]

sure thing clown. the movie was super boring

[@Devilm4n-cw8tv]

Unique≠good

[@nillieable]

Kindly revisit the meaning of the word sequel. Then perhaps it will occur to you why it can't be judged on a stand alone basis.

[@yCognacPapi]

Huge eye roll.. It’s a sequel, so obviously the audience won’t judge it as a stand alone. If you actually watched the movie and liked it, that’s great for you. But don’t pretend people are just caught up in hating the film as a trend. Unique does not mean good.

[@JohnnyFehr]

people these days have forgotten how to let themselves entertain and make sports out of it instead of finding things where they can feel upset about it. Great video!

[@FrameVoyager]

Exactly. I have my issues with the film but I still went to the theater and enjoyed it. Don't let reviews ruin a movie for you.

[@MrKrewie]

@@FrameVoyager well some people dont like musicals , should i have educated myself to that fact before watching this knowing that the first one wasnt a musical ? , just wondering what did i do wrong, anyways it was the only movie i ever walked out of

[@callumcc8897]

I think you should have just waited for another Marvel film! I have a dislike to people who don’t understand the concept of the story! It is a social media joke which 5 years will change the mouths! I wanted this to come out after the first film and I don’t care for any blogger or any subscriber! This is the toxic point of the movie and the message! People do not care about anything other than there Batman villain

[@irvin_rodriguez]

The movie was ass bro stop acting like people are hating for no reason

[@MrKrewie]

@@irvin_rodriguez couldn't effing agree more

[@HalfEatenMedia]

The Joke sequel is a visual masterpiece. I’ll give it that. Story choices are left to be desired. I enjoyed a few of the musical moments but they should’ve been limited to 3 or 4

[@FrameVoyager]

I can't lie, I've been listening to the soundtrack and Lady Gaga's album for it nonstop 😅

[@bryguytyguy]

Phoenix’s acceptance speech will live in my memory forever. He’s such a genuine guy

[@Artyom125]

He talked about a cow.

[@deangagatr3886]

Thank You for actually doing research and watching interviews of the people talking instead of making assumptions and spreading false information

[@FrameVoyager]

No problem! Everything we do is heavily researched so no twisting things on this channel

[@nathanvermilion205]

Frame Voyager is about to hit 100k subs but deserves millions! The quality of these production mini documentaries are unmatched. Never stop!

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate it! We'll get to a million someday 😉

[@Yuuki_Asuna]

I'm excited to see this movie, thanks for this video because the toxicity around this movie on youtube is crazy. I personally like when films do creative things even at the expense of the expectations the audience might have, it's like people nowadays don't want creative ideas,concepts.... it may not be of your taste but I definetly apreciate that

[@FrameVoyager]

No problem! We try and keep it pretty level on this channel. Too many reviews over the films nowadays. We mostly just like talking about the whole scope of the film and let viewers decide if they like it themselves.

[@Xavier.living.life.]

I feel like one of the very few people who genuinely loves both films, I can fully understand though why people would dislike the new film because it's just not a film that would appeal to the majority of people and that's okay but at least there's a few who can truly appreciate it.

[@FrameVoyager]

Comic book films are always so weird when it comes to critics. Someone is always angry about something in it. I enjoyed watching the film in IMAX and while I don't think it was necessary to have the sequel, it's not like the worst thing ever made haha. Also, personally, I loved the musical numbers. I have been listening to the new Lady Gaga album she released alongside of this. No one should ever feel bad about liking a movie other people don't!

[@Xavier.living.life.]

@@FrameVoyager I've also been listening to Gaga's new album it's fantastic.

[@FrameVoyager]

I've also been listening to that Lady Gaga Tony Bennett album again! Similar style --> open.spotify.com/album/2VX9rp6NAC19TQN4IgkmYu?si=IqBMvBcMRZy8yQo6andNBA

[@Gwilherm]

Im not a comic book fan but a big fan of arthur character and his joker persona. I hate the second movie

[@Xavier.living.life.]

@@Gwilherm I'm a huge fan of Arther's character as well, did you hate the movie because he died? I was guessing that he was going to for several months long before the movie came out it just felt like the obvious end to the character.

[@Paper_and_Light]

That 'Rolling Stone' review headline was absolutely WILD!

[@caaarlos]

I have to admit the technical work by the main actors, Phoenix, Gaga, the hope in Gleeson's character when for brief seconds he believes Fleck is salvageable, Lawtey's portrait of a smug Harvey Dent that acts as another cog in the flawed system. But it frustrates me while I'm a jazz musician and love jazz music and also old school musicals, but I want to see more acting. There are way too many moments where they go into fantasy land and even for me as a Jazz musician while I come out of there inspired to revisit old standards etc... I wanted to see cinema, and I get less cinema and more of something else. And that would be more OK if it was properly advertised and people knew what to expect, but nobody was expecting such drastic change. And in the end, because it's not really a full blown broadway style musical but it's also not entirely a film the way you expect it to be, it sits in a middle ground, in almost sort of a new style which is very daring and commendable but I come out of the theatre dumbfounded and bamboozled by what I just watched. Not because I cannot make sense of the messages, but because of the way those messages were delivered. Where certain movies will show ideas that challenge and remake concepts from my mind. Still a great showcase of the great work they've put in as actors and nice singing.

[@jmalmsten]

The audience expected Dark Knight. Todd gave them End of Evangelion. Ok. Maybe not that psychedelic in style. But still. The effect is close enough. And yes. I enjoyed the insanity of both parts of this saga.

[@raiden_c1]

I saw the film last night. I really really liked it. I liked how it recontextulized aspects of the first film and how the music numbers were expressions of the madness of the characters. I am also happy they kept the character study nature of the story being about mental health. All the performances were great, and it was edited phenomenally. I can get why people don't like it though

[@FrameVoyager]

Nice! I saw it in IMAX and enjoyed it. Still not sure what I fully think about the film but it at least kept my attention the whole time. But I don't blame anyone for liking or disliking the film. I LOVE that they at least took a wild swing for this movie

[@sebastianalegria3401]

The reason why Joker: Folie á Deux didn't succeed like the first one as they turned a masterpiece into a musical, but if I could highlight something from the film, it'd be Lady Gaga's performance because she fitted perfect with the idea of making Joker 2 seem a musical.

[@THEODSTKING117]

“Masterpiece” That first joker movie is just a blatant rip on Taxi Driver and King of Comedy. The sequel was a failure because Philips habit of ripping off older films didn’t work out this time

[@readyupswag]

By not calling it “a musical”, Lady Gaga described what makes a musical. When emotions are too high to speak, you sing. What?

[@JuanDavid-gt7gq]

When you stop your dialogue to make a singning number, that's a fucking musical.

[@LittleRayofSunshine69750]

I tend to scream, not sing. This film is a train wreck.

[@musstakrakish]

That's the literal definition of a musical. Too excited to talk, you sing, and when you're too excited to sing, you dance. That's the literal backbone of the genre.

[@o-shawnspecific80]

​​@@musstakrakishwhat's interesting is you can actually see the progression of the fantasy getting stronger. The first song is sung by Lee in real time. The next Arthur imagined himself, remaining in the room where D.A. Dent announced he's shooting for the death penalty. The next Arthur and Lee share a dance music number which seems to be real aside from the music in their heads. It progresses to Arthur displacing himself from the current events into a more idealistic version of the scene in his Joker persona. It's a brilliant film. People just want to feel big by bashing it.

[@Amfneey]

Personally, I've always felt the first film is more of a character study of the mentally ill, Arthur Fleck. I was personally never expecting a sequel to be more about the Joker aspect. I always felt Arthur was A Joker, not THE Joker. I would personally like to see a prequel about Arthur Fleck and his early years and what led up to the events of the first film. His childhood, his early adulthood, and what led up to his first acceptance into Arkham Asylum seen in the beginning of the first film. I enjoy his time as Arthur Fleck more so than I did him as Joker. He felt more relatable as Arthur. Great video!

[@Picnicl]

Exactly. A truer way to see both movies (but then they wouldn't have sold as well) is to call them 'A Fleck'. Arthur is just a fleck to society. It took him viciously murdering several people for him to be noticed by them, even distastefully feted by them. The second movie will annoy many fans of the original. But that's because many of those fans of the original took an unintended message from the original. They see The Joker of that movie as a hero. He's not. The Joker is a bad guy. He's the unfortunate consequence of a breakdown of Arthur's restraint. Arthur was the hero of a kind for being true to himself no matter what others threw at him, until he snapped, not Joker. The Joker in that first movie is the consequence of a failure of society to protect those it deems, well, old fashioned. In the second movie, we see these 'old fashioned', gentlemanly, ways in how he romances with Harley Quinn. So, perversely, the people who hate the romanticism in the second movie are the same kinds of people who, in real life, might quietly tolerate the dismissive attitudes towards Arthur Fleck. The second movie brilliantly insinuates to much of the audience that they are the villains. It is villainous to want a good, meek, person to forever turn in to a bad, consciousless, person.

[@sarah_pings_witherby]

Yes! I came here to say exactly this. Arthur Fleck is A Joker. THE Joker’s origin is perhaps hinted at and revealed at the end of this movie ? Why else would that character have been so prominent in all the Arkham scenes. I loved both movies. There were flaws in both, but as I was massively invested in Arthur (and not expecting any DC accuracy) I was happy to just settle back and be moved. His realisation in court that it was just him, not the persona, was heartbreaking.

[@anyaaa2801]

Sequels don’t break my heart challenge. First, ww1984 and now this.

[@macbriggs6397]

My theory is that Todd Philips is as forced to make this movie by executives at WB so he decided to fuck up the whole thing for all parties so the franchise would just die

[@jagtech490]

Only one issue neither James nor WB had much involvement as confirmed by Todd

[@lonelysatoshi2482]

@@jagtech490I think he meant being forced as to make the movie in the first place, WB was probably behind him thanks to the first movie being the most profitable R-rated film at the moment and by wanting more success they persuaded him to death into making the sequel in favor of not only more money but full creative liberty and that’s where Philip’s sick of that just accepted to just undo everything the first movie thing, literally an intentional fumble lol.

[@maximiliancordedda]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So he deliberately decided to spent months working on a project he knew was bad and would become an enormous flop, upsetting the og fans, hurting the first one and damaging his career and chances being given to direct another studio film? I highly doubt it...

[@macbriggs6397]

@@maximiliancordedda see the satirical nature in my comment is based on the outlandish possibility that Todd Phillips deliberately spending months working on a project he knew was gonna be bad and would end up becoming a flop.

[@maximiliancordedda]

@macbriggs6397 yeah yeah but there are people out there REALLY believing this theory

[@froggfriend2602]

Unvisble vfx is always so mindblowing, just a bit sad that it's so good no one notice it haha...

[@FrameVoyager]

They complain when they do notice it and stay silent when they don't notice it. People dislike bad rushed vfx but unknowingly like vfx they can't see

[@FrameVoyager]

WATCH ALL OF OUR JOKER CONTENT HERE: kzbin.info/aero/PLQZkJfDdY7uAicXN8bwR2UxTSUNWk0ufm

[@rottenbabylon]

It was awesome. I loved it.

[@f.g.Monster]

I loved the movie, visually stunning, and Gaga slay as always, her best role so far. This is not a Hero movie who kills people and thats it, they tried to make Arthur look like a different person from Joker, but it was him all the time, so he paid the price.

[@fynnthefox9078]

I enjoyed the film, but not as much as the first one. I mean, walking out of the theater, I was kind of on a high saying it was great, but after reflecting on it, going over what people were saying and what I saw on screen, I can understand it and agree to an extent. But overall, I was entertained.

[@FrameVoyager]

Mostly my experience with it. I was thouroughly entertained but understand the issues with the film. I just wish more directors took chances like this!

[@area51pictures]

Where did you see it in IMAX? Curious if you were or werent at my showing lol

[@FrameVoyager]

I usually go to Regal Sandhill in Columbia, SC. Where di you go?

[@aliasjon8320]

On paper Todd Phillips background with Hated documentary alone makes him an insanely good fit for writing Joker 2, perhaps even more so than Joker 1 (given that he began working on it while GG allen was in prison , and the documentary also focuses on the fandom surrounding this figure , his bizzare association with John wayne gacy). The story behind How (or perhaps why) this man did not slam dunk with sequel can perhaps be a subject for its own documentary.

[@jhedanesguerra]

The film is beautiful. Most may not have liked it but I did as I care for a person behind the character. I extend my empathy to anyone who is suffering with a mental illness like Arthur’s. I have a lot of complications too and music is one of the things that is keeping me alive. I’ll be spreading the true message of the film coz I believe that is the real ENTERTAINMENT 🖤

[@loficutoff]

I really enjoyed it, amazing cinematography, original gutsy film

[@FrameVoyager]

DO YOU think they should have made this sequel?

[@ChristianL.mp4]

Ultimately no

[@norm-bb3bb]

No, the ambiguous ending was perfect 😢

[@FrameVoyager]

@@norm-bb3bb I do love ambiguous endings!

[@sebastianalegria3401]

No, because it was unnecessary thing even more, getting to know the first Joker was a real success.

[@zachhiggins1668]

Yeah but I think they should have continued developing Arthur into a valid Joker. I disagreed that it certain he could never have been a proper Joker and I think there was a vision once but they got influenced by the reactions. I don't think this is what Joaquin felt when he said he needed to do more Joker

[@aleusgaming9482]

There was some detail about the 70mm release left out here. For one, this is not a Dune 2 situation. It was never shot for the 1:43 aspect ratio and then presented on film. It was always the intent for the movie to be presented in 1:85. But for whatever reason, WB decided to crop 1:85 shots to 1:43, (the pan and scan method that used to plague dvd releases) and furthermore, crop “non imax scenes to 2:20.

[@johnathantoledo9245]

The first one was so mature. This one just feels less than that. I hope that there are a lot of videos discussing secret hidden gems within the film or why we were all wrong about it. I really like the story behind it, but the music just takes me out of it. I wish that the sequel didn’t have Harley. I wish it was about turning him into Gothams #1 problem. I hope it improves over time. It’s a shame though, Joaquin is one of the last actors from the 2000s kids generation that could pull off a role like this. Heath, Jack, Mark, even Leto (in ZSJL) are all able to pull off the role so well. Maybe one of the younger generation actors can pull it off. THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION FOR TOM HOLLAND TO PLAY JOKER.

[@Johnrap]

I wouldn't be concerned that no-one watched the movie. I'd probably be concerned if they did. That the sequel to the top rated movie could do so underwhelming at the box office is a great sign that you've done something right. I haven't seen it yet, but will check it out when it is available on screaming.

[@Professorkenneth]

Joker 2 is great,i saw it twice to get a better understanding. It's not a masterpiece by any means,but it's alright.

[@Falutia]

Its nice to see a video where someone can appreciate the movie for what it is, not hate the movie for what they wanted it to be

[@gezrod]

Todd's musical sequel to Taxi Driver.

[@THEODSTKING117]

Bro was like what can I rip off now??? Singin’ in the Rain and One Flew the Cuckoos Nest 🔥

[@FishGuyDudeBroski]

I genuinely envy anyone who enjoyed this movie, I really wish I could like it but I just can't no matter how hard I try or how many times I re-evaluate it

[@b.pack3]

Thanks hollywood for the all out attack on regular men.

[@ericcarabetta1161]

Keep it up everyone! If enough of these stupid comic book movies totally flop, then maybe we can start getting good movies again that aren’t based on cartoons.

[@johnmcfadden9442]

Unfortunately they’ll gravitate towards video game adaptations full stop once comic book movies begin to be less profitable.

[@ericcarabetta1161]

@@johnmcfadden9442 , Borderlands, Halo, Tomb Raider, TSMB

[@DaPark3]

Havent seen it yet seeing it tmrw, but seeing all the negative reviews from ppl who opinions i dont respect, it makes me even more excited. I hated the response the first joker got from "incels" online who believed the movie was about them and not about mental illness and how its treated in society. They just thought, "oh im so oppressed and arthurs also oppressed, he so me!" So when they came out and said they didnt like the sequel, i was almost relieved. It aint about you, jimbo.

[@FrameVoyager]

We had someone laughing behind us for the entire movie when I went and saw it. I don't think the guy understood the movie 😅 Ignore the reviews and enjoy the movie!

[@DaPark3]

@@FrameVoyager maybe he understood more than we can know 🤔🤣 All jokes aside i dont ever really care abt a review, thats why i saw megalopolis yesterday even though most ppl said it was bad (it was def confusing 😅). I love forming an opinion, then using that to get into the conversation and shift that opinion overtime. Its the best part of movies!

[@FrameVoyager]

@@DaPark3 💀💀💀

[@DaPark3]

@@FrameVoyager All jokes aside i dont ever really care abt a review, thats why i saw megalopolis yesterday even though most ppl said it was bad (it was def confusing 😅). I love forming an opinion, then using that to get into the conversation and shift that opinion overtime. Its the best part of movies!

[@FrameVoyager]

@@DaPark3 Same! It really is the best part of movies!

[@neilhannan5112]

Because of the Reviews of this movie Todd Philips left DC Universe that sucks because he could have take the criticism and inprove on his craft but because of the Backlash he received Love your videos keep up the quality of your work by the work this is unrelated did you see Wild Robots and Transfomer One if soon what did you think of it if not sorry for the question but i would love to hear you option on the movies ❤

[@FrameVoyager]

I've been so into making all of these Joker videos I haven't had a chance to see the Wild Robots film yet! Hoping to this weekend. If you want to, I talk with some people on our Discord channel who all go see movies and discuss during the week. Our discord link is in the description if you're interested

[@JoeChillton]

He left before the reviews, genius

[@imaginekudryavka9485]

Folie a deux is fully a doo doo. No, I have not seen it. But it feels good to have that off my chest.

[@FrameVoyager]

💀💀💀

[@t2s709]

Ain’t nobody ask for a musical or Gaga should’ve not made no sequel tbh :/ what a JOKE

[@danmieseler9351]

Now do Starsky and Hutch 2: The Musical

[@DaneOLeary]

1.7 and 1.07 billion is quite a different situation-careful with your reporting ✌🏼

[@FrameVoyager]

@@DaneOLeary yeah what's on the screen is correct. 1.07 billion. Didn't catch that I misspoke there, I read it wrong off of the script.

[@liquidocelot4885]

Thats one of the worst endings I've ever seen. Garbage in its purest form

[@FrameVoyager]

To try and connect it to the Nolan's batman's was a lot

[@liquidocelot4885]

@@FrameVoyager I was disgusted by that. Ledgers joker should have been left alone, the man's dead and to try to attach itself to Nolans trilogy like a 3rd arm was pretty disrespectful imo. Wonder what Nolan himself has to say about it. I picture him shaking his head but I could be wrong

[@theprowler18]

I thought it was a baseless and weird deep cut reference like the monologue ripped right out of The Killing Joke. But yeah, referencing that film in the final moments was nonsensical.

[@kellyredfearn537]

I don't think the intent was to outright connect these films to The Dark Knight trilogy. It was definitely an homage but not meant to literally be Ledger's Joker. I took it as being symbolic that regardless of Flecks decision to take responsibility for his actions and dismiss the Joker persona the movement has grown beyond him and will be adopted by more radical individuals who will eventually evolve into the audiences idea of a more traditional Joker, hence the nod to Ledger's. " This city deserves a better class of criminal and I'm going to give it to them." It's essentially the inverse of Nolan's Batman in that the joker has become a symbol of anarchy and will live on beyond Arthur. Arthur is the first of many jokers.@@liquidocelot4885

[@macbriggs6397]

@@liquidocelot4885 I don’t think they were trying to connect it to Nolan’s Batman I think it was just supposed to be a nod to ledgers jonkler

[@Brandonyoungblood50]

What is Scorsese musical movie called

[@nucspartan321]

Incredible movie. A heavy masterpiece

[@FrameVoyager]

Glad you enjoyed it! did you go see it in IMAX?

[@nucspartan321]

@@FrameVoyager of course

[@FrameVoyager]

IMAX makes films better haha

[@Aidswayz]

Going to see the movie in about an hour, and unless this is some fascist propaganda piece, I feel so bad for Todd Philips. I respect him for trying to do something new (whether or not it works), and the amount of people wanting to see his head on a spike for this movie is absurd. It’s such a shame that Todd Philips may be in movie jail for a while after this because we all make mistakes. He should learn from his mistakes, and do better. Not be prevented from making another movie to this scale after how many people hated this movie

[@FrameVoyager]

Go have fun seeing it! Don't let the reviews of it keep you from enjoying it Tbh, it's kind of ironic because everyone criticized him for repeating the same structure for his Hangover sequels and here he tries something completely different and people are still upset lol. But a lot of repsect for attempting something here when a lot of other directors would have just gone back to the same formula.

[@Aidswayz]

@@FrameVoyager oh believe me, I am going to form my own opinion on it, no matter how much Twitter will want me to conform to one side or another. And yeah he does have the track record of not making the best sequels, but he really should keep trying until he figures it out. Deadpool has been my all time favorite character for almost a decade, and if Deadpool & Wolverine turned out like Joker: Folie à Deux, I’d be fucking pissed. But nonetheless I wouldn’t want the director and crew to be in movie jail because of it. People are allowed to make mistakes

[@FrameVoyager]

@@Aidswayz Yep! It also makes people hesitant to try new things that aren't formulaic nonsense. Movies like this should be encouraged even if they don't always hit the mark.

[@Aidswayz]

Coming out of it and sitting with it for a few hours. I didn’t like it, but it’s nowhere near as bad as the fucking Anti-Christ people were making this out to be. I still 100% stand by everything I said though. My opinion on this movie will definitely change over time, and while I definitely didn’t like the movie, I wonder how my opinions will change

[@Picnicl]

@@Aidswayz An important question is why didn't you like the movie. I think if everyone answers this it reveals more about them than about the movie.

[@jasonisjasondoes]

Would James Holmes not walk into a theatre for Folie a deux? They probably think so, what a waste of a movie.

[@mittenil2972]

My favorite movie of all time.

[@THEODSTKING117]

Good grief

[@chronokoks]

"Success for some, futile for others" .. so it's a trainwreck failure overall. Good that you recognized this.

[@LittleRayofSunshine69750]

Perfectly stated

[@o-shawnspecific80]

Since we're talking about what lead to the production of this film. Let me pass on some knowledge. Joker 2019 was originally pitched by Todd Phillips as part of DC Black. Based on the comic series DC Black Label. This would have seen 2019 Joker as one of several origin stories for Gotham's villains. Phillips pitch is denied, but hes given a very very small budget to make one film. After this film makes a billion $s...after the Snyderverse, and after they already greenlit Reeves to make The Batman...they try to back peddle and ask Phillips to take creative control of other peoples work after they already basically handed his idea to Reeves. He declined. They make him do a sequel to squeeze more cash out of the Joker franchise and he delivers something he knows people won't get, that will waste their $. An independent director stands up to these big execs for himself and his work and you all turn on him. Good job sheeple. I mean people.

[@nathanbrown9786]

Nuance in film review is dead. This film is great, just different to the previous one. Subverting expectations doesn’t mean it’s automatically bad. It’s a character piece thriller, and a good one at that.

[@winterhaydn]

The movie is a very purposeful middle finger to fans & the studio. That's the entire message of the film [subtext]. Just like the Wachowski Brothers did with the Matrix reboot.

[@eduardorivera4343]

JOKER 2 IS A GREAT FILM.. Not for juveniles.

[@gamedaysam]

Really like to be here & see people love it like i did

[@FrameVoyager]

Welcome to Frame Voyager channel where we don't belittle you because you liked a movie or didn't like it!

[@nathanmalick8048]

I really wish this movie was more enjoyable. I don’t think it was ever meant to succeed the first one. That’s okay.

[@ezequielcisneros5145]

I absolutely loved it. In this universe our Joker isn’t a crime boss or a criminal mastermind. In this universe, there isn’t even a Batman. It’s just a guy that was in a lot of pain that was pushed too far and got his 15 minutes of fame. So many people held him in a high regard because of his actions and when they met their hero in real life, he let them down. He admits he’s not the joker. He doesn’t get the girl and he has remorse for his actions. And he is murdered in prison. What an outlier for a comic book film. This film isn’t your quint essential turn your brain off and enjoy the film. The jokes on you rich kid, it’s kicking your ass days later isn’t it? I give this film five stars.

[@owenorders5202]

@ezequielcisneros5145 You absolutely loved it, and you gave this film five stars? Does the FBI know where you live, and how potentially dangerous you are?

[@LittleRayofSunshine69750]

This film was awful, I give it ZERO stars, the first movie is a masterpiece and gets 5 stars.

[@ezequielcisneros5145]

@@owenorders5202 everybody is awful these days. It’s enough to make anyone crazy. 🤡

[@lucasfonseca3620]

This is the most pretentious shit I've ever heard about any film

[@ezequielcisneros5145]

@@lucasfonseca3620 pretentious and true…pretentious and true. 🤓 I didn’t say anything that wasn’t so. I will admit that the part about rich kid being bothered days later was gratuitous and intentionally meant to provoke an impulsive response from a demographic of easily offended, privileged, inherited wealth folks a kin to the three men on the subway. As far as I can see so far ; story checks out. some men just want to watch the internet burn.

[@deangagatr3886]

I feel like this movie will go down as a cult classic in the years to come after the hate campaign is over

[@TheAlphazoneYT]

No. It’s just straight up bad. They undo everything good about the first movie

[@deangagatr3886]

@@TheAlphazoneYT listen I’ll hear you out What does it undo from the first movie?

[@TheAlphazoneYT]

@@deangagatr3886 All the nuance that went into pushing Arthur to his breaking point to actually becoming the Joker in the first movie is entirely regressed in this movie. He reverts back to just Arthur. The film also starts with him in Arkham & ends with him in Arkham. So both narratively & in terms of character development this film makes his entire journey pointless. If You were expecting actual Joker antics with Harley, him actually fully becoming the villain based off what the first film set in place, you will be sorely disappointed. The film also is bogged down by useless dialogue that recaps large portions of things you already know from the first film. And the musical numbers don’t add any depth or value. While not inherently bad songs, they just feel like filler. The ending is also just an insult to Batman fans.

[@Picnicl]

@@TheAlphazoneYT These movies are not about 'antics'. You picked the wrong series. People should have been totally horrified by the deaths in the first movie, not cheering the villain Joker. The first movie should have been looked upon as an epic examination of isolation. It was a tragedy in the old tradition of Arthur's old life, however un-ideal, being lost forever, replaced in public consciousness with a manic, cartoonish, sinister clown.

[@TheAlphazoneYT]

@@Picnicl Your comment is both disingenuous & needlessly pretentious. Most people DO look at the first movie as a character study of the isolation & abuse of a mentally ill person. That is the very thing I’m saying made the first film good & it was a novel unique take on the Joker that hadn’t been done before. That tale of tragedy was the masterpiece. At no point did I ever say you should applaud the Joker’s actions & cheer on the villain. So cool it with the accusatory tone. People watch The Boys because Homelander is a nuanced well written villain. That doesn’t mean we root for him, but his story is one of the main appeals of the show. The show literally makes fun of anyone who would genuinely cheer him on. With Joker, people obviously want to see the next evolution of where they’d go with the well written nuanced character they set up in the first one. But no, Joker 2 makes the entire journey pointless by making his entire character arc circular. That’s why it’s bad. You arrogantly misconstrue my point into wanting just Joker violence. No, the point is I wanted a story that actually brought something of value & depth as the first one did. Not a circle of a character arc that undoes everything.

[@hessu275]

I mean I thought the sequel was pretty great. The direction, the filming and the acting from Joaquin was outstanding like before. Brendan Gleeson ended up playing a warden who felt more relevant than Lady Gaga's Harley which was unfortunate. Other than that I liked the film while I understand why some don't. But it's far from being a bad film

[@FrameVoyager]

Yeah the rating it's getting is pretty harsh imo

[@bennygerow]

I'm still gonna go see it. I trust Todd Phillips with the Joker.

[@FrameVoyager]

Ignore reviews and enjoy the movie!

[@TalloHilarios]

Its like the filmmakers was really tryna make a good movie first, then gave up half way purposely. I wanted to defend this film and this idea so bad but its like its literally asking to not care about this world & character anymore, but why tho when nothing wrong came from the 1st film, I WANT A JOKER 3 TO FIX ALL OF THIS

[@rtleeson]

When you can't take your crap idea and use Taxi Driver and Kign of Comedy to fill in the gaps.

[@THEODSTKING117]

This is exactly what happened

[@rtleeson]

@@THEODSTKING117 i hated the joker Todd Phillips shouldve been embarassed to claim he wrote it.

[@maximiliancordedda]

​@@rtleesonexactly. He looked at King of Comedy and Taxi Driver and thought "Hm, that's a good idea for a Joker film"

[@darrensweeny]

I thought the film was fantastic, as good as the first.. What is it with a lot of people? The cinemaphotography was great, tight scripted and well acted.. You don't really get many films like this today.. A refreshing bold film compared to the mind numbing action superhero shite we are flooded with now..

[@PrettyboyAshtun]

somehow the first one still looks better than this one

[@tylerscott2116]

He doesn't really ***, and the guy that ***** him isnt ****, it's symbolic. *** isnt real either.

[@Mr_Quimper]

I watched it in IMAX today. I walked out thinking... 'This is going to piss off a lot of incels'. It killed off any notion of an edgelords wet dream. Behind the musical motifs, it was pretty dark, bleak and required. You don't get the girl. You don't get to ride off into the sunset, Bonnie and Clyde style and you ultimately have to take responsibility for your own actions.

[@luisyamamoto1884]

“this is gonna piss off a lot of incels” how more of a knuckledragger can you be?

[@TheAlphazoneYT]

It’s also going to piss off every Batman fan who wanted to the Joker to just be the Joker. But instead this film deliberately sabotages everything set up in the first one.

[@nobodyspecial4676]

kinda like the last of us 2. they set one thing up in the first and they tear it down in the sequel.

[@mutantsupremacies]

every time i see yal shipping harley quinn w that musty ass clown fucker instead of the plant lady im like [knife emoji]

[@fergusclarken8437]

Is it a good idea to release this movie when there is an election in like a month

[@genji5312]

Believe it or not; the world does not revolve around American politics.

[@alexokin6819]

Idg y a sequel is so hard for him jus mak godfather ii eryone td duzit

[@acapedit]

This movie and the online criticism has intriguing paralells with the recent reception of Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis. Jesus Christ can anyone under the age of 30 be happy with a movie? In my view, (I'm not alone in this) the bigger picture here is NOT the merit of the film whole, but one of an evolved cultural worldview. Risk-taking wild swings used to be celebrated, now they are frowned upon. Joker 2 and Megalopolis are anomalies in the landscape, the kind they no longer make due to the economics and OUR taste for sequels, prequels, remakes, and distaste for art that confounds digestible expectations of storytelling. People over 40 seem to enjoy Megalopolis and are more open to embrace what it has to say. Our hyper-criticism of eveything in the zeitgiest has neutered our ability to enjoy collectively something different and that's valid. It's not the art but our reception to it which merits more consideration. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

[@FrameVoyager]

Couldn't agree more! Ignore the reviews and go watch the film! Even if this film ends up being views as a complete flop, at least it was a wild swing and not some formulaic garbage flop

[@zachhiggins1668]

Like Adam drivers character said, it's the discussion itself that's utopian. The adult youth of today were truly weaned on social media. If it didn't get a 'like', it was worthless and bad. They generally think in those binary terms

[@tenzillionfilms620]

As someone who's 21 and loves psychological thrillers, this was a treat! People didn't care for the film because they've exposed themselves. They didn't want a tragedy but for Joker to fight batman which would've been dry and so boring because it's been done SO. MANY. TIMES. If people paid attention for five seconds, they'd realise that the film is about Arthur's shared hallucinatory psychosis with Lee of being in a musical.

[@acapedit]

@@zachhiggins1668 Yep sounds about right

[@THEODSTKING117]

Sincerity doesn’t exist anymore man. In the modern internet age it’s seen as corny, funny, or cringe. Comparing the work of Coppola and Philips is funny though. One is a hack and the other a true auteur

[@nillieable]

Of course some will enjoy even crap. But that doesn't make crap good for the majority.

[@raquetamalvada]

🍿🍿🍿🍿

[@FrameVoyager]

Enjoy!

[@juggernaut316]

the musical courtroom drama take was a horrid idea

[@scaramonga]

A Lady Gaga concert, which no one wanted.

[@Picnicl]

The people who hate this movie are the courtroom hangers on, the people outside in the Joker masks, the Harley Quinns. That is the greatness of this movie. To remind those people that someone who kills 6 people in often vicious ways shouldn't be regarded as a hero, no matter what the provocation. The Joker is the villain. Remember? Arthur, on the other hand, is more complicated. That's a message of the movie. If you truly care about Arthur (and why shouldn't you?) do not wish him as a character to become The Joker. He can be a 'Joker' with romantic feelings. It's not a superhero movie. There's no Batman. The movie serves to ask people 'Do you see people for who they really are or do you prefer to see them as cartoons?' If you only wanted the latter, check your status as a human being.

[@verebellus]

i think its a nice change from the kind of movies Todd has previously made, Joker and Folie a Deux is such powerful movies, its about "the feels"

[@figurespeech101]

I am already exhausted by the incoming discourse for this movie. It can be different, creative, and also miss the mark. I don’t think I missed some deeper meaning, I just think it swung for the fences and is largely a mixed bag. Also what a waste of Gaga!

[@FrameVoyager]

I actually really appreciate them trying something different here. Many directors and studios wouldn't let them do something like this. I enjoyed watching the film in IMAX even if I thought it was an unecessary film. Yeah, I wish we got more time with Lady Gaga in the film.

[@figurespeech101]

@@FrameVoyagerI am glad they went for something different and I surprisingly liked a bit of the musical sequences. I think it mostly falls apart in the last act.

[@FrameVoyager]

For me I loved the cinematography and the music elements, which I know a lot of people hated before they even saw it in theaters, but the story really does feel like it moves through mud getting to the conclusion.

[@NebLleb]

I felt the first film was perfectly standalone and I thought this sequel was a bad idea... But after hearing spoilers for it, I'm actually intrigued to watch it. Because not only do they sound incredibly bleak (even by JOKER standards), but from the spoilers, Folie a Deux sounds like it's basically Todd sticking it to the Sigma Male culture that fantasized the first film and providing further closure for Arthur's tale. Good on him. Sigmas are scum and they honestly had this movie coming. Movies shouldn't be made out of spite, but if you're gonna do it, make sure it's to hammer the point in even further. Still dreading the film, though.

[@master2uall88]

The very first second that they announced Joker 2 and that it was going to be a musical I said right then and there that will be a huge disaster and a major major bomb for Warner Brothers, and Warner Brothers just cannot catch a break because they had idiots running the ship over there

[@remymccoy6078]

HOLLYWOOD Weirdo's, YOUR MOVIES SUCK😂😂😂 that's the message,

[@anonymous4k4k]

Idgaf what anyone says , i absolutely loved this movie and i think its better than the first. Honestly both films are now probs my favourite duology ever , so creative and unique

[@playpal9950]

This movie was really bad. There was no plot to it. It had nothing new to say, there were to many songs, it was too long, Harley was just an obsessive fan of the Joker persona, the courtroom scenes were either exposition or a review of the previous films events, the pacing was choppy, it was pretty boring, Arthur didn’t have the same confidence or identity he did at the end of the last film, they massacred Arthur’s character and undid the work of the previous film. 0/10

[@Picnicl]

The confidence to kill 6 people? That's not a confidence it was in his interests to have. Don't you see that you're the courtroom hangers on, the people in the Joker masks, who didn't care about Arthur Fleck? That's the greatness of the sequel. To remind us that the villain should never be the hero. And that it is the villainous, such as Harley Quinn who dumped poor Arthur like he was nothing, who glorify villains.

[@ceasarstudioceasarbelliard7873]

That's what happens when you chase the money instead of keeping the authenticity of a project. There was not supposed to be a Joker 2, At the end of the film in Joker 2019 it said "The End"

[@kevinn4038]

This movie is an example of when you have to kiss Hollywood ass, but the movie isn't worth much. Fence sitters are the worst.

[@vova2422]

What if the first Joker was a musical kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZCtmmyboLWqoKMsi=xJSnXPOyl6dKjMlL

[@NashTalksTheatre]

I watched the movie last night, I enjoyed it.

[@FrameVoyager]

Sweet! Did you go see it in IMAX?

[@Agma_Magna]

Joker hate fans

[@LittleRayofSunshine69750]

Let’s be honest this isn’t the first sequel Todd Phillips has made that was awful…

[@edmundomouet]

I watched it for free. Last week. I want my time back. It's such a bad movie. Lost respect for everyone involved in this movie

[@YodaOnABender]

People will watch one bad movie and act like all the good movies those people worked on no longer exist lmao grow up

[@jamesbrown3239]

It’s a beautiful turd, but a turd nonetheless. Do I admire them making this film? No mot really and not even because I disliked it. I don’t admire them because it’s clear that they knew what they were doing, they had to have had test screenings that told them what a mistake this was, but hubris told them to continue. This is Hollywood letting the mask slip. Watch this film and realize this is what hollywood thinks of you. Every actor, creative and producer thinks this is a movie that you should pay for but more importantly that this is what you deserve for your hard earned cash. And that they went on strike for half a year to defend their right to get paid more to make movies like this. If that doesn’t tell you to just stop seeing Hollywood films, I don’t know what else the message could be.

[@FrameVoyager]

Warner Brothers decided to not do test screenings for this movie so they didn't know ahead of time. screenrant.com/joker-2-folie-a-deux-test-screenings-denied-report/

[@jamesbrown3239]

@@FrameVoyager thanks! Wow, ok that makes sense for a WB move right? Hahaha. These guys deserve every failure they achieve. Folks, we are in the wrong business. We should all identify as non binary and go work in Hollywood. We can make loads of cash, turn out pure shit, and likely get away with it for a decade. Talk about failing upwards :)

[@tracebrooks7846]

For what it's worth, Todd Phillips made two excellent films, DC fans will hate it for not being The Joker they wanted, but moviegoers, cinema fans know that this movie had alot of care put into it. Those films were about Arthur and Joaquin. Yes yes then why call it Joker... why not. It gets people's attention.

[@JuanDavid-gt7gq]

It's false advertisement at great escale. Why call it Joker and not "mentally ill loner from Gotham"?

[@tracebrooks7846]

@@JuanDavid-gt7gq Good question for Todd Phillips to answer.

[@raunch187]

Musical Meh

[@Archimatic-mexaa]

This movie had no actual plot, only musicals. Quite disappointing... yeah yeah.. the performances were great but there was no story.

[@JuanDavid-gt7gq]

11:47 All that hard work and technology in service for a failed and horrible story... what a waste.

[@ChrisVillegas-m4n]

Garbage nobody wants to see! Lmao!

[@JoeyEsqueda]

You kinda have to be in on the joke, the movie hates its awful fanbase, every edgelordy teen in my theater walked out, it was great.

[@Picnicl]

Exactly. Many of the fanboys of the original movie were (I'm being hyperbolic but not far off) self-appointed counter-cultural semi-literates who unironically cheered a serial killer who used vicious means. They didn't care that the movie was more a homage to the loser killers of Robert de Niro movies Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy. The second movie reminds these fools 'The Joker is the villain, not the hero'. To do so in a way that didn't even require a single death at Joker's hands was great. The deaths by Joker in the sequel were just imaginings of Arthur. Arthur got our deserved sympathy eventually by being shunned by Harley Quinn when he told the truth. She wanted The Joker. Many of the audience wanted The Joker. They lose. Good day, good sir. This is Arthur Fleck's doomed romance tale and it is brilliantly done.

[@petermj1098]

⁠​⁠@@PicniclNo the movie sucks because the Joker is not the Joker in the film. Harley Quinn is the Joker’s simp not the other way around. Phillips doesn’t understand the characters and ripped off another Martin Scorsese movie called New York New York which is a romantic musical.