THE GACHA PROBLEM ( The Dangerous Future for the Genre)

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In This Video I make some points about the dangers of the genre along with some ideas for the scene and the direction it is headed. Let Me know what you think down below! :)
More Guide related videos soon!
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[@oscara8454]

PvP gacha games are a must avoid for me. Getting stomped on by whales is not my idea of fun.

[@TryDragon]

You would be surprised how many people like getting stepped on ☠️😩

[@Noqtis]

@@TryDragon not in video games though. No one likes that. Just join a random ranked pub.

[@TryDragon]

@@Noqtistrueeee🤣🤣

[@jeromekeh]

@@Noqtis you and me both; whales and leviathans dominate gacha PVP so why bother for f2p like us to even hope of getting to the top at least once.

[@jhosvillanueva7265]

WELCOME TO DRAGON BALL LEGENDS

[@PinkAgaricus]

At least with Star Rail you can add those whales (if they're friendly enough) to use as an assist for the Calyxes. (The players with level 80 characters, most probably have them properly built too)

[@TryDragon]

See HSR is peak gacha. The new standard.

[@LeftyPencil]

Be the few Arlan mains for free credits from curious strangers on the 'worst unit' :D

[@mattredfield7072]

That fight with pyro cube hurt my eyes

[@solarenity]

hsr is my favorite gacha by far

[@pralenkaman8105]

I play honkai star rail for the story, knowing honkai impact 3rd's story I have expectations for star rail to become an amazing story in its own as it gets more and more major updates Characters are a nice bonus that allows me to do end game content so I can get more characters and unlock more and more builds and ways to play the game I have plans of what units I want to pull for the foreseeable future, I want to eventually do a follow up attack team, damage over time team, a destruction team, etc. It helps, of course, that star rail is designed in such a way that every 5 star unit can clear end game without eidolons content (or the repeats feature that makes your characters stronger if you get a copy) with good enough relics Also for the story, star rail will have major story updates in its first few updates for the year and the latter half of the year will still have story events, but it will slow down the pace considerably and that's something I have in mind as well

[@TryDragon]

Very well said. I think all those are the reasons the game is getting the support from the community that it is. I want to play Honkai impact 3rd but I heard the game is like ending? Or the story is ? Idk hot to explain… either way. You are based

[@pralenkaman8105]

@@TryDragon Basically honkai impact 3rd part 1, the story that follows kiana kaslana, raiden mei, bronya, fu hua, etc. has already ended with some story events for other characters still releasing from what I understand part 2 is beginning, you don't need to play part 1 to understand part 2, but it sure helps for some nomenclature and probably for some references down the line Part 1 follows characters in planet earth Part 2 follows characters in mars (I think) I haven't played much of part 1 and nothing of part 2, I followed the story of part 1 through cutscenes online and the animated shorts, but I don't know much of anything about part 2

[@Noqtis]

I play HSR and I hate the story lel If I ever stop playing it will be because I can't skip the story and always have to waste a day on major patch days to go through it.

[@pralenkaman8105]

@@Noqtis honestly I wrote this comment before playing 2.2 story and while I have hopes for the future of the story, right now it's a bit confusing with bits and pieces that are really good like aventurine's and sunday's backstories, also doesn't help that I realized that with every final cutscene of the penacony story updates they tried to do a big cliffhanger that somehow is always a fakeout and is really unsatisfying in the end, once the next update releases you realize that the ending of the last update was just for shock value and probably didn't have any big ramifications on the story in general Also 2.2 is feeling like a big cutscene, I think I'm currently halfway through but in total I've counted like 4/6 battles in total, like 2 hours of cutscenes and maybe 30 minutes of exploration although I think I'm being generous there I don't know what the hell happened but this update, up until where you get harmony TB at least, has been one big movie, 2.1 felt like that at some points but I still feel like it stroke a good balance of gameplay and story telling, this one just seems to want to be a movie for some reason What I keep my stance on though is the gameplay, I really enjoy it, yes I know I won't be able to get all characters, but I don't need to anyway and with the amount of stellar jades they give per patch you can almost guarantee pity once every single update The characters I have/want also open a ton of playstyles, some more complex than others and it's pretty fun to experiment in general, the gameplay is definitely a big strong point of star rail I hope they up the quality of the writing to be less exposition and more developing the characters we already know/will know in the future, kind of like how they did with aventurine and Sunday and balance story and gameplay better in future updates, because 2.2 kind of bored me with all the exposition

[@midknightcrisis8612]

​​​@@Noqtis to this day, I can't wrap my head around ppl starting J-RPGs, fully knowing the main point of the genre (the story) is fully fleshed out and thus will take time, and then hating that exact thing. Like, you knew what you were getting into, why are you doing it to yourself? 🤔 Besides, each HSR patch (outside of 1.0 and 2.0 of course) usually only adds like 4-6 hours of content which is supposed to be enjoyed over the span of 1-2 months. Of course it's gonna be tedious if you bruteforce through it day 1, making it feel like a chore. The rewards aren't gonna disappear for at least a month, what's the rush?

[@robertgray3710]

Thing about star rail is every character has things they lack as to allow for more team synergy and balance. This allows for many 4 stars, especially f2p ones to be really good even the standard banner 5 stars are on the good side

[@TryDragon]

Very good observation 👀

[@achel91]

That's why I really like Honkai Star Rail; it has a really good story, characters are interesting, and I don't have to spend a fortune to have fun (well, I paid more money for Aventurine, but I reaaaaaaally wanted him XD), I'm fine with the battle pass, and nameless glory. Just couldn't like Genshin Impact, and I regret nothing now.

[@TryDragon]

You made a good choice. Don’t get me wrong. If you want to walk around a beautiful open world and oneshot mobs. Genshin is the game for you. But if you want a fun and interesting challenge with constant engagement. LOOK NO FURTHER! HSR IS HERE!🤩

[@Hazynote253]

what I hate about the meta in an online game is it gives a game less freedom to a player. well yeah a player can still deviate from it but they will get punished hard especially if there's a pvp content

[@TryDragon]

Literally! Thats what makes it hard about playing PVP gachas. Unless there was true diversity but ultimately with power creep the teams will bottle neck into a meta 😬

[@Noqtis]

@@TryDragon it's possible but not that much with a gatcha philosophy. Such a game would be cool though. Balanced units without power creep and its team building and decision making that decides the outcome of a battle. Instead of the most powerful combos with a dozen dupes.

[@TryDragon]

@@Noqtis I FEEL LIKE epic seven is kinda like that? but not really

[@Demopans5990]

And the moment a gacha has a pvp element, expect it to be botted to kingdom come. Especially if it is essentially a web UI game.

[@AdisonSittig]

I mean, I really like the added story and area from Arlechinno - it adds an entire area of similar size to chasm/ekonomiya. Genshin does still feel like a gameplay/exploration game to me.

[@TryDragon]

Fair. But I just fear it’s finite ya know ? But like you said exploration is the sole purpose of Genshin imo. Combat is still relevant but not core gameplay I don’t think.

[@NaganoharaYoimiya-bs7hb]

​@@TryDragonA bit ridiculous to expect a game to have infinite amount of content. You play something, your done with it and move on to something else until new update drop.

[@louket5762]

​@@TryDragondoubt its infinite, prolly like H3I, after story end, there will be another

[@xetho5341]

while i agree that theres a gacha problem and them making money is important i feel like the truth is that these gacha devs are disgusting creatures who prey on people and there is way too many cash grab games with little reward i played epic seven for months got to end game and it felt like there was nothing left and only option is pvp? grinding gear? like nothing about that game once i got past a certain point felt good. there is whole seminars about how gachas can make a quick 100-200 million real quick off of what would be the equivalent of 6-9 thousand dollars worth of effort. and then not put anymore effort in for literally years

[@TryDragon]

a very relatable statement

[@dtabor85]

If genshin or hsr ever add pvp the games community cuts in half one week in. Bet money. It's the only reason they have ANY charitable community at all. Look at diablo immortal. Sure it's made money. But it's also one of the most universally hated games of all time. Genshin and hsr were much smarter you have to be lucky, good and dedicated but you CAN beat the hardest content in both with even 4 star units. Its WAY easier and more fun to do if you spend but it's possible. You see youtubers making challenge runs of it. Diablos endgame for whales IS pvp. Everything else is trivial. And it feels disgusting when you've had good luck and consistency and get actually one shot by a whale. I played thar game from day one for 6 months and had obnoxiously good loot for a free to play. Even got accused of being a dolphin. Was gone for one month and all of that was immediately gone. And it never really was there in pvp. I was still one shot by whales. That feels fucking awful and was why I quit the game eventually. One dude that can 1v6 isnt compelling or rewarding. Even if they 200k. There is a point where the companies greed in power ceiling is so apparent it stops being worth even bn playing. Apparently that's too enticing a monetary goal for a lot of companies to milk the 1%. Its honestly why triple A gaming is moving to battlepasses and loot boxes and yadda yadda. They want more to make less to be beholden to the share holders that they dont realize they are making a shitty product and experience for everyone BUT the ppl paying thier bills in a month. To be clear if you have to spend more than 15 or so a month to remain competitive and I mean truly competitive. Ur games trash and ur greedy. Straight up. You out the cart before the horse and likley have a bad gameplay loop propped up by the ultra wealthy whales. And that doeant last long when they run out of people to punch down on. Pvp does not belong in gacha games intrinsically for that reason. Genshin and hsr understand that intrisincly and that's why theyll last. The studios that get greedy and dont get the memo will never make as much overall or be as successful over time. And I think that statement has been proven. Square enix and blizzard cant even compete with genshin cause they broke that core principal. It has to FEEL good and be enticing to feel BETTER marginally. Not feel like total shit unless you full on whale.

[@TryDragon]

I really wanted to play Diablo immortal but I’m glad I didn’t 😩 I was super concerned tbh. I think hsr and Genshin have set a good precedent that if not followed when you make a gacha game it won’t have the same life span. But you make some great points with AAA GAMES failing the monetary structure.

[@louket5762]

About gacha and pvp. MtG exist since 1993

[@EpicTetsu]

Some of the biggest money making gacha games are single player or with co op now and probably will be going forward. Most people would rather spend on these games than PvE with end game content being PvP and new meta characters every 2 weeks.

[@TryDragon]

God someone tell this to the big companies cuz I hope you are right.

[@Hazynote253]

I'm also starting to lose interest in HSR when they started marketing DoT teams because I find it scummy. We already played other turn based gacha games and we know sooner or later they'll add enemies that are completely immune to debuffs and status effects (in this case DoTs) just like how they murdered the playability of Ayaka in Genshin when they started to add more and more cryo resistant and freeze immune mobs in Abyss. Nowadays, I now just casually play HSR, just doing those weeklies and spend those resins and completely lost motivation on doing events, MoC and Pure Fiction.

[@Nunazac]

People were disappointed by Petrichor? It may not have been as large as past new areas have been, but it's been one of the most unique pieces of history and lore put into the game. Both thematically and aesthetically

[@TryDragon]

I don’t think the location was the issue I think people just don’t like to read ☠️🤣 but I heard the new area was well received. But it being finite and not a “challenge”. But again going into it with the proper expectation is somewhat the idea of this video.

[@Nunazac]

@@TryDragon Oh, I guess that's true. I enjoy every new area because it means I get to have more stuff to explore. And the music of Remuria is beautiful so I enjoy spending time there

[@TryDragon]

@@Nunazac the music is undeniably amazing. thank you for your comments!

[@mites7]

The story driven ones are fine PVP is trash

[@TryDragon]

Amen… and a women

[@Shadow82311]

@@TryDragonlike Anime hot women in HSR?

[@awesomeperson5150]

There can be some overlap, but I find that games with both eventually pressure people to stop caring about the story and the characters. In PvE games, I’ll look out for characters that stood out to me in the story (favourites) and pull them. In PvP games, I feel like I have to pull and build the meta characters and push aside my favourites, so I don’t have as good of a time

[@edabb5321]

the point about not having road maps is so true! esp as someone who was 'forced' to turn into 'dream' territory bc of it, if u know what i mean. genshin has basically been a relic grind simulator for me for the past 2 yrs (playing since Dec 2020). as for HSR, I like how casual the game is particularly the autoplay bc farming repeatedly doesn't feel as taxing and it doesn't take up my IRL time. plus it has different modes of endgame that are updated often. I play hi3 and reverse 1999 purely for the story. I plan to try wuthering waves on release, but I highly believe that I'll end up deleting it in a few weeks bc I'm so over gacha games. anyway, great discussion!

[@TryDragon]

hey thank you! its great to hear feedback on the videos but i do believe that there is hope for wuwa to have that casual blend that we all enjoy in hsr! make sure to stop by in the future when we discuss more

[@edabb5321]

you're right, and i would love to hear your thoughts on future vids, goodluck!

[@squirrel490-n1p]

Lol, like 3 years ago I thought they would make hangout events for 5* characters in Genshin too, so we get to know these characters better. Boy was I wrong

[@TryDragon]

😂😂😂

[@statesminds]

Every character makes you want the next then next then next lol luckily i dont really spend money for pulls besides like the $5 a month. But i wish theyd just make a normal game. HSR the only gacha i play everyday and they have issues too but thankfully they provide real content usually

[@TryDragon]

You understand how gachas get ya LOL I think each unit being super dope makes it easy to be satisfied tbh.

[@Axterix13]

The problem with being able to earn things in game is that the company is incentivized for you not to do that. Meaning that rarely will something that is also sold take a reasonable amount of effort to earn. Not unless it is like a FOMO situation, where you can play the game to get it now, or pay to get it later. Overall, though, this is not a gacha problem. It's a "micro transactions" problem. The battle passes, the unlockable skins, the content locked behind a paywall... all of it is the same. The companies are incentivized to make the game worse so that we'll spend money to buy the solution to the problem they introduced. And as to being F2P "friendly", well, if you aren't the customer, you're the product. F2Ps are there to function as free advertising, to make whales feel good about the money they spent, and because a certain percentage of F2Ps will transition into spending customers.

[@TryDragon]

well i think there is a healthy balance of time/money spent. i personally spend about 10-15$ a month if i am actively playing the game. thats just me supporting the game based on my time invested. and i hope that everyone can find a healthy balance.

[@Demopans5990]

Either you spend money, or if the game is basically a web UI, you bot

[@zerablack]

Genshin/Honkai starail is my fav gacha game, no micro transaction like other games. They give you free setellar jade for daily/event. You can clear content with without limited character, if you farm enough artifact/relic. Genshin/honkai quite generous with their player, many player didnt spend already have many limited 5star from daily reward for 1-3years also clear content with just 4star. I played summoners war/ ragnarok online/solo leveling other game that shoved micro transaction to ur faces! if you not spend you will fall behind.

[@TryDragon]

My desire to play gacha games has made me blind to micro transactions ☠️☠️🤣 I just ignore it fr fr but you right just being able to play and chill on Hoyogames are pretty cool.

[@F.I.N.A.L.I.T.Y.]

can confirm, i have many 5 stars being f2p, to the point where uwould accuse me of being a dolphin

[@halovkgen]

I do agree that a road map is fairly important for a gacha game. I used to play genshin and HI3 and my main issues with the games was the power creep. Especially HI3 since there is a competitive side to it. I do play HSR however I don’t play as often since I’m fairly burnt out from the relic grinding. I personally am really enjoying Limbus Company since it has a fairly enjoyable gameplay loop and generous rewards. It has a roadmap and tells the players what events to expect in the future. PM(project moon, the dev for the game) do show future units before they get released. Also I really enjoyed the video :3!~

[@TryDragon]

Very great comment here! And thank you for the kind words! I’m gonna be making alot more gacha content soon so please subscribe and share ❤️❤️

[@billionaeris1183]

There's no way they make these games for free, they obviously have a budget when making the game, the game being free means gacha is the way they make their ROI essentially. However, I just don't know why they don't make a AAA game like this instead with a one off payment. I mean i enjoy some gacha games, but i've never spent a dime on them and they do take up to much time because they never end. Even if you just play 1 gacha game, you need to be on it daily to really see any progress and then if you add 2 or even 3, then you literally will have no life and the games end up feeling like a chore more than having fun, which is what games are about, having fun that is. This is why i believe the gacha games market will inevitably crash at some point because the gaming industry is flooded with them and also F2P games and if it carries on the way it is the bubble will burst and many companies will go bust and jobs lost. Also one big problem with gacha games is you don't own the account the company does, so if they decide to close the severs one day or even go bust, there goes you data and all your progress, essentially all that time you've spent on the game spanning years is gone at the touch of a button, the whole idea is a disaster waiting to happen. At least with Triple AAA single player titles you can save your data forever and always come back to play it at anytime, years in the future.

[@AeusOcil]

Yeah people looking at characters as content has always been bad. Cause lets face it it's only content if you get the character lol. I do really appreciate honkey star rail I too light spend on the game no more than 15 a month with the battle pass etc. It really feels like they set out to make a good game first.

[@TryDragon]

100% agree man

[@emmanuelmercene]

Well there are characters that is future proof too

[@TryDragon]

What ones? Nod doubting just wondering

[@aonodensetsu]

i'm planning to make a game in a few years and it might be a gacha, i don't care about money tho so i'll make the banners in a way i would want them to be as a player

[@TryDragon]

This sounds like a great idea and I howl to all plays out perfect

[@Satyr42]

Don't. Live service games are the WORST games to make as an indie, especially if it's your first game. Failure rate for live service games is over 90% and it's a very oversaturated market. Your game would have to be absolutely incredible to even get noticed at all, never mind actually becoming a success. If you really want to make a game then make a simple single player game, put it on Steam for free, gain feedback and learn from it. Make the next game a little bit better, put it out there for free again, gain more feedback and improve further. Repeat this process for as long as you need. Once you have a clear understanding of how game development works in practice (and not just as a developer, but also as a businessman. Making games and running a development studio is a business. If you do not know how to build and maintain a business you're set up for failure right out of the gate) and have a good idea about the market (understanding what people want and what niche you can then try to fill within the market) you can put a game out there for like 10 dollars (or whatever the equivalent of that would be in your currency). Build yourself up further from there. Once you are at a level where you can consistently release single player games for about 30 to 50 dollars you can then think about a concept for games with multiplayer functionality. Use the audience you have gained to gauge interest and see what works and sticks, and work towards making this new found inspiration into a successful multiplayer game. Once you have released about two to three successful multiplayer games you can start creating concepts for a full blown always online live service game. Live service games are incredibly risky to make. They can make your company, but they are much more likely to break it.

[@whatfearsaremadeof1973]

Great video, that is all

[@TryDragon]

thank you, that is all

[@avinashbhatia3303]

Bruh i remember playing blood brother on my sis tab.good old days.

[@TryDragon]

You my friend. Are a real one. One of the realest. Blood brothers started it for me 🔗😭

[@olchum7605]

I replaced Hu Tao with Arlecchino after 3 years of using her. Genshin powercreep actually is quite okay

[@TryDragon]

I mean as that is a fair point I would say the amount of units in Genshin makes power creep less you only use this unit or that unit. It’s about 8 units that will rotate out when it comes to meta. Again in theory. But over all Genshin is less focus on combat so to speak so less applicable over time.

[@Trailblazer_Uchiha]

There's going to be another gacha game just like that and all of our favorite characters and games are going to be into one it's going to be my game Amari and his friends adventures we're all going to be in my game as characters and with our favorites I'm going to decide when I want to make my game but for right now I'm going to focus on my anime voice acting

[@Trailblazer_Uchiha]

I think they're all going to bring these gacha games together that's what's actually going on here wuthering waves solo leveling HSR GI all these Gacha games

[@michw7479]

😈🔥JUST USE THE POWER OF CREDIT CARD

[@TryDragon]

HELL YEAH GIVE ME YOURS 😈🤣

[@TryDragon]

Jk plz don’t

[@mosesnyper]

Arknights my beloved

[@sazzlefrazzlegames]

Amazing

[@TryDragon]

this is the best comment hands down!!!

[@cfemotion]

This remind me of the worst PvP gacha game I played, Revue Starlight Re:Live. It is now pillaged by constant powercreeps (we're talking 5* tier SSS unit that gets demoted to next tier in just few weeks) so much so the PvP section of the game is hard to find opponents cuz only super whales and lucky ones with up to date units enjoy stomping other players that are left. The gacha is so broken, it is hard to save for new banners

[@TryDragon]

It’s a shame because sometimes it could have been great but man 😭

[@astro7013]

RIMBUS KOMPANIII

[@anapple6912]

sucks that this genre of games will have always have me go full on nihility. 😂😂 well unless the overworld and endgame are challenging, endgame being VERY challenging. at this point i am just tuning in for the story whether good or bad i just want to see how it all ends same with genshin impact (arlecchino is very fun to play with unfortunately not enough strong enemies' spiral abyss is just a test of time...)

[@khulmach9662]

Meh, power creep only matters in pvp games.

[@TryDragon]

I agree but sometimes it can be frustrating if your older units are struggling in new content.

[@khulmach9662]

@@TryDragon We just got to be smarter and stronger

[@xy1xy]

If your older units are struggling then pull the new one, no? Or am I missing something?

[@TryDragon]

@@xy1xy yes 🤣 some games won’t let you pull new units very easy so to speak lol. But! I will say that is the solution

[@TryDragon]

@@khulmach9662based

[@Trailblazer_Uchiha]

I'm going to be voice acting as some of the anime characters in English and some of them in games

[@TryDragon]

Dude that’s exciting! I hope that works well for you yo!

[@Trailblazer_Uchiha]

@@TryDragon I only have three more years left until I become a voice actor I'm about to turn 17 this year

[@Trailblazer_Uchiha]

@@TryDragon thanks for saying that

[@inokori7146]

yapped a lot and said nothing this is all known argumentation on gacha games take, so i kinda wasted 15 minutes just to add something, on day 2 of genshin, there was people with the statue of Geo maxed out already, so its not always a content problem from the devs, there's a lot of people without a life

[@TryDragon]

Great comment ☠️

[@TryDragon]

But honestly just wanted to start a conversation for some that may be newer to the genre.

[@IDontLikeHandIes]

Damn you sound like a redditor

[@thepeanutter9972]

This video is kind of rambly. I struggle to understand what point you are trying to make besides the games needing content outside of new characters being released.

[@TryDragon]

Just kinda me talking about my experiences with gacha games. There is acouple points including dissecting the different types of difficulty in the game and the different and the difference between PVP and PVE gacha games.

[@indiecrob]

🤍🤍🤍

[@Trailblazer_Uchiha]

Genshin could never

[@PixelatedMagikarp]

Nah if you play gacha games you’re the problem it’s a toxic gaming strategy and yall are willing to swallow it

[@TryDragon]

Every game genre has flaws. I’m just tryna make it better

[@PixelatedMagikarp]

@@TryDragon o7 I wish you luck you’re fighting an uphill battle

[@xy1xy]

​@@PixelatedMagikarp What games do you play?

[@PixelatedMagikarp]

@@xy1xy league valorant Minecraft wow ff14 dwrf fortress, dynasty warriors, Mario cart. Mario party, Pokémon, call of the wild, the isle etc honestly too many games. But mainly because my wife also plays a ton of random games and I enjoy playing with her.

[@xy1xy]

@@PixelatedMagikarp I played and play those along with gacha games as well as many other games. I don't see what I am swallowing playing gacha games which I honestly find better than most of the games we both played or playing.