THE GAME IMPROVEMENT IRON TO BEAT in 2025

[@pro-waresupport4921]

Jay, I just want to commend you for answering so many viewers questions. There are not many KZbinrs who take the time to do this this and I feel it adds a lot of credibility to your reviews.

[@AskGolfNut]

I try where possible to give back to every person that took the time to comment and contribute.... Waking up at 3am frequently and not being able to get back to sleep helps a lot also 🤣🤣

[@martindimbleby1439]

Agreed...thanks for taking the time to help your viewers. I feel your pain with waking up in the night. Hope you can sort whatever it is. If its a racing mind, mindfulness techniques have helped me. Good luck

[@AskGolfNut]

@@martindimbleby1439 it's a racing mind with content ideas, thumbnail tag lines or titles 😊 oh also a lovely golden labrador that wants to go out in the garden randomly at night time 🤣👍 I will always try my best to answer as many comments as possible 👍👍

[@jwilder2251]

I’ve seen your clubface data for years but this heat map visualization is next level 👍

[@AskGolfNut]

All done to try and evolve the channel and data presentation to give you guys the best possible viewing and understanding experience 👍

[@martindimbleby1439]

It is brilliant seeing it visual. Genius

[@richardwm2]

I hope the knee heals up quickly and doesn't interfere with testing. Another great video!

[@AskGolfNut]

Me too! Just a weird twinge when I was warming up to do a video.... Left knee too so I want to try and keep it happy as I have a lot of testing coming up for all the new 2025 products 👍

[@StevenDietrich-k2w]

Jay, I'm curious where the HMP edges out the standard HM and the HM hi launch. I would think that the slightly bulkier but similarly constructed HM would be a little more forgiving due to it's slightly greater size, and the HL more forgiving due to it's deeper center of mass. Your thoughts please.

[@AskGolfNut]

It was very much a shock to me, so much so that i did the datasets again and then put them through the heatmap generator and it came out again with near identical maps... It's something to do with the tech inside and how the tech works with the slightly smaller Chassis and the CG location. Actually sometimes if the CG is too low, it can drag the green area vertically downwards and you get an upside down triangle effect to the green area. This just seems to have a perfectly placed CG so that the help is equal all around it. Really now though it's made the standard HM a bit redundant, the HL is there for a different purpose. The HMP is a very very good option.... Just wished they made it look nicer 😊

[@StevenDietrich-k2w]

@@AskGolfNut Thanks Jay. Mizuno has so many models between the Pro Series and JPX series that there seem to be a lot of redundancies. You would think that 4 models would cover the range, but they have at least 6.

[@danielh4032]

Tried them against a few others and found the Zipcore xl generally better, and definitely a better feel and price.

[@zacharydeubler6546]

Love it! Love all the technical data you find! Really appreciate it!

[@AskGolfNut]

Really glad you enjoy the data collected and displayed.... It's a fun time coming with all the new irons and drivers being released 😊 all being added to the Website for my KZbin Members to access and compare at their leisure 👍👍

[@Evan_Rodgers]

A little surprised you bumped this above the MkII, but we all have our biases 😂

[@AskGolfNut]

It's due to this being marginally more forgiving than the ZX4, and in the Game Improvement sector, golfers demand the most forgiveness so this has to be given the most weighting. The custom fit options also are the best of any brand ensuring that every golfer will have a fitted no up charge shaft which is important. Many others run stock shaft options but then paid for upgrade choices which commonly bump the price even higher than standard premium, so on balance overall the HMP has to be the winner 👍

[@Evan_Rodgers]

@@AskGolfNut just busting your chops, you’ve tested the clubs and I haven’t so I trust your judgment. 👍🏻

[@Carl_Spackler]

These haven't been on my radar (looking at softer feel, duller sound at impact). So, seeing the heat map here for the first time was absolutely stunning. More forgiving than its siblings, including the 925 HM HL!?!? Ya gotta love it ! And, as if you needed further proof as to how valuable becoming an AGN member is, none of us need to be influenced by manufacturers' categories any more! I mean, as a beginner and/or someone with a mid/slow swing speed, the tendency would be to steer away from an iron with the word "Pro" in its name. And you'd be wrong!

[@Michael.Sandoval33]

Absolutely Carl, it was becoming a member, watching the videos and looking over the data that actually led to the 925 HLs. Very happy to have found the channel.

[@AskGolfNut]

They are simply the best at Forgiveness, when it comes to other areas they won't be able to compete with a more Players iron in Looks and Feel etc whilst also providing enough Forgiveness for the golfer to have an enjoyable experience with them... Best thing is as a Member you have access to all the advanced data so you can pick out the irons with specific needs such as Face Speed, Face Spin Rate and Launch Factor etc 👍👍👍

[@barryhill6482]

Very helpful video. I’m looking to upgrade my Mizuno’s this year.

[@AskGolfNut]

All the Mizuno heads ranging from the 241 all the way to the JPX925 HM HLs work very differently in not only in Forgiveness but also measured areas such as Face Speed, Face Spin Rate and Launch Factor etc, this Advanced Data is held on the new website www.askgolfnut.com and can be access by my KZbin Members on Silver tier amongst many other tool and also the Heat Map comparisons 👍

[@johnatchley9754]

I watch almost everything you do and respect your three swing speed tests more than any others on YT. You have convinced me of the importance of landing angle. It is usually not a problem for anyone with a swing speed of 90 or 80 with any 7 iron from the extreme forged muscleback to extreme game improvement club. But for the player with 70 mph swing speed, especially an 83 year old like me, it becomes critical. I often see in your tests that the 70 mph swing cannot get a landing angle over 40, which you describe as the critical cutoff line. That is true with this club, 38.4 on your first swing. So with game improvement clubs with strong lefts, the 70 mph player is trading a possible one club increase in distance and a somewhat wider green area on the heat map for a reduced probability of a shot staying on the green. A Devil’s bargain. To me, based on your tests and my own forged blade 7 iron with 34 degree loft, the alternative may be to accept the fact that with age you now carry your 7 iron only 125 yards consistently but can also get a 40+ landing angle consistently. That makes your 31 degree 6 iron the potential cutoff point. Yes, you can get 133 yards of carry, but only on a perfect strike will you still get a landing angle just over 40. So maybe it’s time to go to a 7 hybrid or 11 wood instead of the 6 iron. This still leaves the question of how large is the green area on the heat map and forgiveness. Conventional wisdom is that this is always larger on the game improvement club such as the one you are hitting here. But is that universally true? Is there a forged blade or CB that has a green heat map area and location that is almost as large, enough so that a player with a slow swing speed but reasonably consistent contact could get both decent forgiveness and, with a 33 or 34 degree loft, a landing angle consistently over 40? The only concession would be to accept the shorter carry. But in return you get to keep your beloved forged blade. Well, it seems to me that you recently demonstrated just such a forged blade. The PXG 0317 ST with 33 degree 7 iron loft. You loved that one. If memory serves, with a 70 mph swing you consistently got 127 yds carry with 41+ landing angle. That was an eye opener. I also seem to remember that it had a very good green heat map area. It would be very interesting to see the two heat maps side by side. Would really like to hear what you think.

[@andy_bickley]

Jay has done several iron reviews of players cavity / players irons and show the heatmaps especially in the cavity section are as generous (if not more so) as anything in the GI or PD category. You only need to watch the Best of 2024 Players irons video and see the Total forgiveness rating in the high 30's to 40%'s , the HMP just happens to be this years winner at 44%.

[@martindimbleby1439]

Its nice to watch this after ordering a set of HM Pros last week. I went with the 7-PW irons and ordered 5 & 6 JPX925 Fli-Hi hybrid irons based on your review. Thanks for the great content....hope the knee improves

[@AskGolfNut]

Knee is feeling a touch better thanks, a bit dull achey at times but fingers crossed it will all be ok. Glad you are happy with your choice, you really can't go wrong with your choice, top marks for getting the best possible setup, the HMP and the Fli Hi irons are top of their class products.... Only issue now is, if your score doesn't improve, you now can't blame the equipment 😉😁👍👍

[@martindimbleby1439]

@@AskGolfNut haha cheers.....I better see at least some improvement. When I was fitted, the HMP 7 iron was going 180 yards vs 152 yards for my circa 20 year old Callaway X16 7 iron. Glad you're on the up. PS looking at putters now. Do you know if the LAB DF3 is as good as the hype??

[@AskGolfNut]

Is anything as good as the hype 😊 basically you still need to be able to aim, align yourself and put a good stroke on it with decent face control.... It takes care of poor hits really and makes the face more balanced.... But you still have to be able to putt properly first of all 😊

[@martindimbleby1439]

@@AskGolfNut cheers....I'm booked in for a putting lesson before investing! I had swing lessons before buying new irons and that has definetly helped more than just new clubs

[@mitchy7051]

another awesome video - can you compare the 925 HMP to the Wilson Dynapower Forged ?

[@AskGolfNut]

I've reviewed the Dynapower Forged on my channel already so if you wanted to watch an in depth review of that it's in my channel listing. For a direct comparison, you can compare them directly for forgiveness comparing Heat Maps on the new www.askgolfnut.com website, if you wanted to compare things like Face Speed, Face Spin Rate and Launch Factor etc then this is also available to compare on my website. Different levels of data is accessible by different membership tiers. All you have to do is Join my KZbin channel as a Member and email me and I'll supply you with a unique Username and Password for you to access the website 👍

[@namewithdrawn3148]

Can’t wait to get a set of these

[@AskGolfNut]

It's brilliant that that these aren't only the best looking of the range but also the model that the Forgiveness technology works the best with 👍

[@richardgatehouse1520]

Great review Jay just recently had a fitting and had the best results with the pros. Great fit with the shaft optimiser , got to hit the recommended shafts. The other manufacturers didn’t have that level. Close with the callaway ai200 but the jpx was better 👍

[@AskGolfNut]

Interesting also to see the Forgiveness Heat Maps between the two irons and also hey they both differ when compared to in Performance Characteristics on the Advanced Data I record.... Great that you had a great experience though and you enjoyed the process of the custom fitting 👍

[@mikejackson4910]

Love your content and as an Excel nut, your data focused approach. But I have a question. Is your forgiveness rating perhaps limited to front to back dispersion? What about the club head data would point to left to right dispersion? Or is left to right always in the hands of the club holder?

[@AskGolfNut]

So certain heads can have a bias towards the flight being more say draw biased than other heads due to CG placement, but the physical forgiveness of the head will always be displayed in terms of front to back dispersion, the left and right is the golfer. Absolute worse case scenario with an extremely draw biased head (let say something like the Vice VGI02) the flight dispersion would be front to back with a slight diagonal slant to the draw biased side. But as most heads aren't in essence that draw biased and they are irons rather than woods where the CG can be further away and also complicated by roll and bulge, the irons will be front to back dispersion 👍

[@mikejackson4910]

Thank you for the reply, that makes sense.

[@richardjacobs7632]

For the money, the Cleveland XL Zip Core has to be the best bet! As far as looks go I like it! Thanks Jason

[@AskGolfNut]

I definitely would agree that if price was absolutely the most important thing then the Clevelands would do very well. 👍 P.S call me Jay, my mum is the only person that calls me Jason and that's only when I've been naughty 😊

[@richardjacobs7632]

@ Well Jay, my sons a Jason as well and he goes by Jay lol! So Jay it is!

[@SpyroCarayannis]

Thanks for another great video. Would you be able to tell me what in your opinion is the best “anti left” iron club Taylormade currently has in its line up, especially if you want to balance that with some forgiveness? Thank you!!!!

[@AskGolfNut]

It'll definitely be much more down the Players end of their range. Most G.I and even PD irons some have a want to turn over, but the Players side tends to be much more neutral 👍

[@SpyroCarayannis]

@ Thank you!

[@paulaskey1508]

Might I assume that as super senior golfer with a slightly sub 70mph swing that I would still be better off with HL version ?

[@AskGolfNut]

Yes absolutely, in those circumstances, Launch conditions trump any benefits in forgiveness levels 👍👍

[@chrisb9478]

Wonder how it compares to the new Pxg Blk Ops? I just got a set of Blk Ops with the Mitsubishi Mmt stuff shafts, they are amazing.

[@andy_bickley]

You can check out Jays recent BlackOPs kzbin.info/www/bejne/haWTiZWrds9kqdk review to gleam some comparison data. For a in-depth compare you can join as a channel member and use our website to compare with any iron in our database.

[@Carl_Spackler]

Chris, just looking at the heat maps of the PXG Blk Ops side by side with the 925 HM Pro, it's not even close. The "sweet spot" of the Mizuno spans almost the entire width of its face, while the PXG BLK OPS sweet spot looks like a little dot.

[@chrisb9478]

@ Odd, it doesn’t feel that way. They feel really good & very forgiving.

[@eric-ls1mx]

@@chrisb9478i love the black ops too

[@andy_bickley]

@@chrisb9478 How you feel about the club and how well you hit it is the most important. Data is a guide.

[@The-OC]

Great video Jay, it's incredible yet pleasing that these have come out on top out of 50 odd others, that's very thorough of you, I'm not surprised your knee hurts😉 Very interesting information about the shafts etc being all in as part of the price when having a fitting, where/who would you say is the most competitive, trustworthy fitting centre in the south East of England.?

[@AskGolfNut]

That's a great point..... Some time ago I spent some time speaking with different fitting centres over the phone, so I could keep my anonymity, to try and do that very thing. My intention was to get a list of all the fitting centres that cities be trusted to properly custom fit the golfer and not up sell them things they don't need etc, making sure they used the technology to hand to ensure the fitting was open minded and thorough, and to also make sure that any golfer attending a custom fitting was able to have a person and not sales first experience....... Let's say after a number of conversations I didn't get a single name on my list that didn't put sales first in some form or other. I was extremely disappointed and frankly felt let down by an industry that muddies it's own waters. Sorry I couldn't be the bearer of more positive news 😔👍👍

[@The-OC]

​Hi Jay ​@@AskGolfNut, thank you for your complete honesty, it actually confirms my thoughts and makes a mockery of the overall system, we get told in vertually every video to go and get fitted, which equates to go and get ripped off by less than honest companies / golf club murchants. I and the majority of potential purchasers just want sound advice and a fair deal. What do you think the answer is.?? How do I buy well fitting irons when almost everyone is trying to screw the customers over.??

[@AskGolfNut]

Honestly I think it comes down to education of the golfer. It's, very similar I guess to any normal business let's say the automotive industry where a little bit of knowledge can go a long long way to ensuring that unnecessary work or expense isn't undertaken and spent. This is why I try my best at getting the information of the characteristics of a club and potentially who they suit together with the new website, fingers crossed it allows golfers to spend their money wisely and go into the custom fitting process with the basic foundational understanding of what they should be expecting 👍

[@The-OC]

​@@AskGolfNutyou're so right, but don't get me started on money grabbing machanics, thankfully I have a trusted one. As for gaining self knowledge, thankfully guys like you make the learning process a lot easier, what would you say is a fair price for an iron fitting.??

[@AskGolfNut]

@The-OC if its professional and unbiased and non commission based then any sensible amount could be justifiable. I always charged £1 per minute as its always upfront and clear, plus there are also people charging ridiculously high per hour coaching or Custom Fitting charges which I personally think it's profiteering and just because someone is a youtube personality, doesn't mean they are justified charging a couple of hundred pounds or more per hour 🤦🤦👍

[@rch4362]

Great job. THanks

[@AskGolfNut]

Appreciate the kind feedback 👍

[@jackyng5578]

How about cally great big Bertha 23? Was very expensive when it first came out but now at a pretty good deal. In fact I think the apex Ti fusion was based off GBB23

[@AskGolfNut]

I never actually tested the GBB23 irons.... Never got around to testing them... The Ti irons work very very well, do they work as well as much as they cost...... Well not entirely certain of that 😊👍

[@scottmoree4796]

I love my and the high launch are awesome too.

[@AskGolfNut]

Great set of irons 👍👍

[@Ibizassini]

Would you use a 4i of that range for a driving iron? Curious to see your WITB :)

[@AskGolfNut]

I've got plans to do a what's in the bag end of 2024 😊

[@rongriffin9771]

How does the HM Pro forgiveness compare to the HM HL? I am a slow swinger.

[@AskGolfNut]

The HMP is the best of all clubs I've ever tested but the HL works very well too, the HL though is designed for the slow swinger in mind due to the launch conditions it gives over the HM and HMP. So on balance if you are a slow swinger I would prioritise Launch conditions over max Forgiveness 👍

[@rongriffin9771]

@@AskGolfNut Thankyou.

[@kev12558]

Improvement over 923 HM pro?

[@AskGolfNut]

Absolutely Kev, I've already done the compare, pre heat maps but take a look and see what you think 👍 kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJOcqJ-ifpqrb8U

[@philipp8185]

Doese anyonw know, when a new model of the Mizuno pro 245 will be released?

[@ArtistPhil58]

265. The clue is in the name.

[@lkae4]

Pro 24X series was released just last year. Pro 26X will be released end of 2025. They're Mizuno irons, man. Nothing revolutionary coming. If you want revolutionary, get the Cobra 3D or Callaway Ti Fusion.

[@AskGolfNut]

Going by past releases we should see a new model come Jan 2026......if Mizuno keep to that plan is another thing.... Companies surprise us all the time 😊👍

[@jimhampton5801]

How do these compare to the 923 forged

[@AskGolfNut]

The 923 Forged are less forgiving than these, although they are in a different category, and also everything is less forgiving than these 😊 has to be the iron of choice for every golfer that struggles to strike the ball well 👍

[@dobster5819]

Unfortunately it’s not very good looking, I don’t think many people would pick this club to play with. I did think one of the PXG irons was close on the heat map, cheers Jay.

[@AskGolfNut]

The 0317CB did very well, but nothing compares to this forgiveness beast 😀👍

[@lkae4]

Wow, the entire face is playable. The only way to improve this would be to design a playable hosel rocket, haha.

[@AskGolfNut]

Mizuno may make the first flat faced hozel 😂😀

[@lkae4]

@ 🤣🤣

[@PepeSylvia36]

Plan on gaming these for 2025 but bent 2 weak!

[@AskGolfNut]

Absolutely, great spec change to opt for 👍

[@Mark-r5b9e]

Wasn't bounce already increased in the 925's vs 923's - and - wouldn't weakening loft by 2 degrees add 2 degrees MORE bounce & add offset ?

[@AskGolfNut]

@Mark-r5b9e it would increase bounce and reduce offset. Mizunos historically have quite small amounts of bounce anyway so even with the slight increase for the 925 HMs, there, are other manufacturers such as Ping that have always had higher standard amounts of bounce 👍

[@Mark-r5b9e]

(silver member here) Aha - so 2 degree weaker HMP's gets closer to HL lofts w/ more forgiveness in a more appealing package.... Thanks for the feedback & keep up the good work !

[@blackheart7886]

It's just a shame it's so darn ugly.

[@AskGolfNut]

Its growing on me......... slowly :-)

[@Mark-r5b9e]

Can a "HL" version be created for a 72-75 swing speed (7i) ? - add 1/2" to standard shaft length & adjust lie by 1/2 degree upright ? - 7i becomes 6i, 8i becomes 7i, etc.

[@andybt3989]

Doesn’t matter if it works though!

[@Mark-r5b9e]

So it will work ? I don't like the "bulk" & offset in the HL but this senior does need help for the low center- ish & low toe- ish strikes . Also, I'm working to develop 1-2 degree angle of attack recommended by Jay for slower swingers

[@AskGolfNut]

Technically no as the bulk does lower the CG beyond what the standard designs can. Also the HL has more effective bounce than the other models so again this would either help or hinder other types of golfer. It's very much so a you must test it yourself to see if your personal swing and feel work well with any particular club. Clubs have much more than forgiveness than we measure, all clubs have things like Face Speed, Face Spin Rate and Launch Factor etc that make them differ to other clubs. Their CG position is just one factor of how different clubs will suit different people. All this information is displayed on the new website www.askgolfnut.com you need to be a KZbin Member to access it but you can click the JOIN button on my channel and see what tier you would be interested in 👍

[@johncutts164]

Why not put 34 degres on the bottom of a 7 iron ,just call them what they are . Perhaps they might not then sell as many wedges!.

[@AskGolfNut]

Arguably if they put lofts on the clubs rather than numbers then they'd sell as many wedges as such bug they may not sell as many 5, 6 and 7 irons 😊