The Gamers That Reddit HATES - Ft.

Elden Ring PvP is filled with many different types of gamers. Some of them have a grudge against gamers that like to give their all in every fight. Wether it's PvE or PvP, these people are called "Try-Hards"... but are they REALLY what these angry gamers make them out to be? Ranni the witch tells you all about it!
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#eldenring #eldenringpvp #ai

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

Would you consider yourself a "Try-hard" in the good or bad meaning... or at all? Have you run into these players before? Also, don't forget to join our discord! discord.gg/qTxpVfc6

[@I_Am_RYU]

Nah im sadly just bad😔 Every time I get invaded i get absolutely shit on.

[@LawfulBased]

Mysteryweapon is the *'Noble's Estoc'* 🙃

[@itsasecret2648]

At the end of the day, I believe games should be played for fun. I'm not going to have mommy boof me Adderall & lean forward in my seat. I'mma keep it casual & reclined, Different strokes I suppose. If somebody wants a win that bad they'll probably appreciate it more than I. Be like water & keep it cool y'all.

[@kingmart2746]

The mysterious weapon is NOBLE'S ESTOC It's my second favorite weapon in Elden ring

[@kingmart2746]

I wish I could play this game

[@tezz2698]

Getting mad at someone for going for the win shows that you do indeed care about winning as well.

[@Lucky-kt1ix]

It's almost like they made a video about it 🫣

[@valhalla_1129]

I think this is simplifying it a bit too much. People care about fair competition and fun too. It's boring to fight the same set 40% of the time and be on the back foot because it's just better than whatever you're using. It's more about an equal challenge than the idea of winning alone. If someone plays really well and perhaps uses an interesting build then losing can be fun and you learn something, or it looks like a cool spectacle. Double spears are just really unimpressive to look at and still do an insane amount of damage. You're not wrong technically but I think it doesn't grasp the entire experience.

[@scragglie]

me when i oversimplify and recontextualize the argument in my favor

[@102ndsmirnov7]

The difference for me is that I try to win, but I also don't use an absolutely optimal meta build. I view tryhards as people that only use the things that are considered most powerful and don't have a build they made themselves, but rather just looked up "most meta pvp build" or smth.

[@honeydarlinggaming9156]

I consider tryharding is when you abandon all originality and purely go for wins and nothing else. No matter how low down it is. Such as CE, Twinking, Etc.

[@doombybbr]

nah, its only tryharding when you do so and still lose or if you cheat

[@9895_]

​@@doombybbrwell no, thats like saying some max prestige CoD quickscoper isnt a sweat. Winning and losing has nothing to do with being a tryhard, cause tryharding is a mentality

[@animusdemifiend2307]

Or copy/paste tryhard setups

[@5.45x39_]

And it applies to non competitive game. I mean you MUST be a tryhard in sport games like dota or CS, where you can become professional But tryharding in a game that doesnt even have ranking system... bro..

[@creaseconquer3364]

​@@5.45x39_absolutely perfectly said

[@onaxclii5554]

I think what separates the "Good Tryhard" and the "Bad Tryhard" is how they handle they're victory: Did they fight with all they had, BUT also took their victory with grace and humility? Or did they fight with all they had, and proceeded to kick you while you're down? Suppose it's a matter of perspective

[@HighDarkDragon]

This So many tryhards in places like arena just throw shit at you, teabag and edgy gesture when they win.

[@lonkthedonk7388]

Definitely. There are tons of annoying and hard to counter builds and playstyles that take practice and time to learn to play against, and that's just part of the game. Sure, as a player I get mad or annoyed when someone plays like that, but its never directed at the person playing it. But it's when they are disrespectful afterwards, that makes it annoying. Feels like they're playing optimally to feel better than others instead of playing optimally to do their best. I am a little bitch when it comes to not emoting before fighting though lmao.

[@zeroxion564]

True! I think it goes a little beyond that, though. Not just how they end the fight, but how they start it and fight throughout. I mentioned taking five seconds to stop and evaluate the opponent in my own comment (e.g. if you know some players gesture, it's not that hard to stop and see if they do regardless of if you don't want to yourself). It's small courtesies like that that make the difference, because it shows that even if you are trying your damnedest to win, you are still willing to acknowledge other players play differently. What wasn't covered in video was the sort of tryhard player that gets salty and cries when something they believe to be optimal isn't the perfect solution they want or that they just aren't skilled enough even playing optimally and so complain. The throwing knife guy is the perfect example here. It was optimal to try and throw throwing knives, but they got outplayed by someone knowing the optimal way to adapt to their own 'optimal' stragey, and lacked the skill to further adapt when the knives were no longer the appropriate move.

[@icebox1954]

@@zeroxion564 I intentionally use roar ash of war just to abuse the other guy gesturing, not to gain an advantage but because I'm so sick of these cult idiots who believe everyone should waste time following the unwritten doctrine of random nobodies. I really don't care about your fictitious unspoken rules, if you waste my time with pointless stuff I will make sure to abuse your disrespect of my time.

[@zeroxion564]

@@icebox1954 thats communicating which is literally my whole point here. its not about rules and traditions so much as players have a ton of means to communicate exactly what they are looking for without ever actually talking. gesures… twohanded blocks… spinning in circles… throwing dung pies… the variety of ways Ive seen players communicate in From games without any vc. Starting with a beast roar to the face might be disrespectful, but it wont end up killing many hosts, just surprising them, and it communicates intent for getting straight to the fight. Tryhards are the type to see a gesture, already be running in for an alpha strike, and one shot the host before they realize whats happening.

[@augusthands9932]

This video ostensibly claims to discuss tryharding but realistically, it feels like it was made in pretty bad faith. It's pretty easy to dismiss dissenting opinions about meta/tryharding as HurDur Redditors (and that's the go-to response from most tryhards) but you have effectively just made a video that caters to tryhards who already spend their time in Jees chat making the same redditor/noob/PvE player/shit net jokes ad nauseum. No one on the more casual side of the aisle is going to watch this video and get a better impression of the PvP community or 'tryharding'. Besides, joke about redditors/casuals all you want, they are the developers priority. Their mass opinions are more important than tryhards, tough as that may be to swallow. I'm not even claiming that you're wrong, a lot of the statements you made are true. The average PvE player/casual PvP player tend to make these laughable statements from a place of ignorance, but that doesnt invalidate every point they have. Even the video example you used to mock a players complaints (valid, he was salty) has a demonstration of some moonveil bullshit and a tryhard taking a swing at someone emoting, come on mate. Assuming everyone watching this video is a tryhard, no one here with a brain can sit and defend souls PvP as something that is remotely balanced enough to be competitive - and it's time for tryhards to accept that 6 titles down the line, making the game competitive isn't and never will be the priority for this RPG. I'm not saying I dont expect or want FROM to be held to a higher standard about the things they implement in their games, so hold on to your panties. What I am saying is that in this game with no servers, no ping filter, no matchmaking - as well as horrific netcode and wildly unbalanced mechanics, casual players have every right to be resentful of tryhards. We dupe items they dont know how to and dont have access to, while also using builds that take advantage of their potential lack of recourses. We refuse to engage against multiple players when they have the advatange, but expext a group of casual players to engage an already difficult game (incredibly new players still struggle when their friends are around, let's not lie to ourselves) in a situation where they have to engage enemies and and invader who they CANNOT beat in 1v1 combat. We utilise a mountain of knowledge that isn't anywhere in game for casual players. Jee even makes the point in his quote that people are just salty that they aren't good enough, without a trace of irony about the fact that he has been doing nothing but this for like a decade. Doesnt remotely see the problem with tryharding while he uses starlight shards, BHS, golem arrows and dual lances against a party of fat rollers and Jimmys. KZbin comments arent really geared for intelligent disussion, so it's not like we can even have a decent back and forth about these issues that won't devolve into typical social media thread arguments. Perhaps next time, try delving into some of the specific problems that people have with PvP + tryharding, and actually touch on some points. Provide alternatives that might work better. Encourage newer/salty/casual players to get involved with the community (instead of using an AI ranni voice to insult them) and offer some recourses that might help people learn. Be more like Saint Riot and less like JeeNine, folks. Unless you want 90% of the words outta your mouth to be whining and complaining about a game you've played religiously by choice.

[@sergeysmyshlyaev9716]

I think the problem with Elden Ring is a lack of practice environment for new players. When the skill difference is too high the fights are not fun and you learn nothing. DS3 had fightclubs for practice, but unfortunately ER doesn't have a good alternative.

[@Nobody32990]

Narrow meta, lack of global dmg tune down are another issues. It's easier to get some practice when you are not two shoted on the regular.

[@Tory-JJ]

Arena.

[@chancetherappersburner6338]

Elden ring desperately needs an option to replay bosses like in Sekiro.

[@aNsWeRkEy02]

yep..pontiff arena in ds3 & iron bridge in ds2..

[@servine1212]

Does the arena use skill based? I played the arena to train so I could help my friend who just got the game, fight off invaders when we play together. I also watched a ton of vids so I know what they are trying to do.

[@tek512]

I feel like it's important to draw a line between playing to win and "optimizing" to the point you've tossed out all notions of honor and fair play. An example of the latter would be those who gladly utilize exploits and/or weapons the community agrees are broken to the point of being genuinely harmful to the PvP scene. You can play to win without using every cheap or exploitative tactic at your disposal. Unfortunately, at this point, the PvP community seem to have an infestation of those who are just fine falling into this category rather than merely tryharding in the sense of giving it their all. In truth, I kinda feel like we have ourselves to blame for it to some extent. We came in from DS3 and just started obliterating all the new people Elden Ring attracted. A lot of them never had a chance to git gud because they would just die immediately. This had two fairly common outcomes: 1.) they give up on PvP entirely, which is bad for the PvP scene; 2.) they get angry and start running gank squads, using exploits, or just outright cheat.

[@archieclemons5447]

I would say, learn to play the game better. If you can't bother to improve yourself before complaining, then this isn't the game for you. Most issues that the community has with the game is in fact just their own lack of acknowledgement that they suck at the game, hence all the calls for nerfs. Keep pushing for nerfs and complaining, and it's going to push more people to use "cheap" and "exploitable" tactics and build configurations.

[@Zythryl]

I agree with this. I invade a lot, so when I see someone change their entire loadout to bull-goat armor and RoB, or psgs, in response to my existence, I know it would make sense for them to abandon the “100-hour long RPG” elements of Elden Ring in favor of dealing with an annoying human enemy, because it could be that, to them, invaders are the hardest enemies the game has to offer. So it’s fine to turn yourself into a human deterrent at that point. In this way, it also makes sense to have the most-optimized load outs for the particular purpose of ganking, because you’re going in with the goal of damaging the morale of all invaders. But, seeing a build like that in the colosseum, *does* make *less* sense from my point of view. Because there isn’t a competitive ladder, this tells me the game does *not* want the colosseum to be a place where players are there to win and only win. It’s there so players can engage in fights that aren’t invasions. Elden Ring isn’t about letting players be able to fight, it’s a game that’s trying to be, above all else, a 100-hour long RPG. But there *are* games with the express purpose of being a competitive multiplayer fighting experience. Take, the entire “fighting game” genre, for example. I don’t know for sure that a game like Chivalry 2 is going to give players looking for competitive PvP fights with medieval fantasy weaponry a better experience than Elden Ring, I only know these game’s purposes differ. So, every time I *do* see some heaviest-armor-but-no-theme builds in the colosseum, like the guy in the Steelovsky clip in this video-I don’t get mad at them for doing what they do, because like the video says, they have the *ability* to play how they want, can’t fault them for that. But I do always wonder, “surely there’s a better game out there for what you’re looking for in here?” Because for players like that, who only play to do good in the colosseum, I’m wondering if they really are trying to… play Elden Ring, at that point, and not some other game. You know? So maybe being a try hard just means you stop playing the game in a way that makes sense for the game being played. An Elden Ring player’s goal shouldn’t be to be strong using only the most efficient options because it’s not a game *about* the best options.

[@tek512]

​@@archieclemons5447 You do realize when I say exploits I mean exploits, right? As in crap like the Carian Retaliation exploit. Things that are clearly unintended.

[@ibengotvasilforrd4258]

I choose to give up in DS1 haha

[@Shin_FTW]

@@archieclemons5447 That's not what OP's talking about. Plus if you get better, your opponent could just get better too, with the advantage of said cheats/exploits and other unfair advantages which, if you both are truly within similar skill, you mathematically will not win. And if we take it to its logical extreme, there is only so much improving you can do before you do hit the wall. Performance and skill is finite.

[@bilowik123]

Prefacing this from the perspective of being in the skill range of the majority of the player base, NOT from the perspective of those who are well above the skill range of the majority of the playerbase, bc that makes a HUGE difference in this discussion. Tryharding is a non-problem in most games with balanced mechanics. But when you have 3-4 meta weapons that are magnitudes above the rest, if you are up against a try hard using one of these weapons, unless you are magnitudes better than them, you will get steamrolled and not even stand a chance unless you swap to a meta weapon. You don't even get to compete, you just lose, which is the problem. Most people don't mind others trying hard, but it becomes an issue when the only way you can even compete and have a decent matchup against someone using a meta weapon is to also use a meta weapon. The only people this does not bother, are the ones towards the top that are, as i said, magnitudes better than a majority of the playerbase and can easily win even from a significant disadvantage. But for the majority of the playerbase, when facing a Meta weapon, we have to pull out a meta weapon or we might not even land a hit. The people who complain about tryharding are almost always complaining bc they don't want to use the same 3-4 weapons all the time. It's so fucking dry. Edit: Alright before I hear it for the Nth time, yes, the game balance is borked, but nobody is forcing you to run dual bleed nagis with stormstomp all the time. You have autonomy. You control what you choose to run. The game balance is obviously to blame for the broken garbage in the game, but the player is to blame if they choose to run nothing but that broken garbage.

[@chriskotte8468]

Well put. They all do the same things. Very boring.

[@GhoulishGourd]

That last bit is the biggest part for me. I’m just so tired of seeing the same handful of carbon copy loadouts over and over.

[@NoNono-o3h]

Well werent people praising the lsst patch for things like this

[@NoNono-o3h]

Well werent people praising the lsst patch for things like this

[@reynauldwhistles2338]

What you mean my Lionel helmet veterans chest piece Bull goats gauntlets and graves whit powerstanced spears (sometimes vykes) isnt original? Now you are going to tell me my no helmet waifu character whit scaled armor and Bull goats gauntlets and greaves whit powerstanced naginatas isnt my own build and I took it from some youtube video, Just dont get mad for losing to me you arent trying hard.

[@davidweaver4436]

In my mind, a try-hard is the person who finds the strategy that counters as many other strategies as possible to the point where it becomes annoying to fight them because they always have an advantage over you and you feel like you either have to abandon the build/strategy you found fun to stand a chance, or just keep losing. Most PvP games are not perfectly balanced, so some people will gravitate to that OP stuff, not just because they like it, but because they only care about winning. It's not "oh, I like how this weapon looks/feels." It's "Whatever makes me win the most with the least effort." It's a perfectly valid thing to do, but if too many people are being "try-hards" and every other fight is against one of these top 1% OP strategies where every battle becomes an uphill struggle where defeat is more likely than victory, not because of skill, but because of some equipment advantage that requires less skill or knowledge, it can definitely become annoying. Basically, people don't like try-hards because they can start to make the game feel one-note and like you're gonna be constantly met with failure simply because you wanted to do what was fun to you. People wanna be able to find success with the things they like, even if they aren't "the best" and when the "try-hards" lock in every bit of over-tuned gear they can, it can feel very discouraging. If it's too much of an issue, the gameplay will become stale. It's not really the try-hards fault, it's a matter of game-balance. The more balanced a game is, the less overbearing "try-hards" will be, but it's real hard to make a game perfectly PvP balanced, especially if there is a PvE aspect to the game where the devs want you to have a progression of power. There basically HAS to be overtuned and undertuned weapons to help facilitate growth. It's sort've just a feeling you get when you face someone. "Wow, what an interesting build. They're good at the game. They kicked my ass and looked cool doing it." vs "Oh look, another one of THOSE guys." Anyway, I'm gonna make myself stop rambling now...

[@MemoryMori]

I agree....

[@zeroxion564]

This! The reason tryharding in Elden Ring feels like more of an issue than in other From games is the overall powerbalance of all the tools we're given being so much higher than any Souls game or Bloodbourn. It's also easier to cheesily obtain certain things just because of the games open world nature (coughs in meteor staff). The way the game is balanced seems to be encouraging us all to either play more optimally regardless of if we want to or to be a bit more salty about this or that in various ways.

[@snargelfargen1]

I mean, you kinda got to adapt your strategy and build for different situations in pretty much every game. That's also true for pve. Although you're right, balance is important. even meta players will complain about balance when there's one solution that is by far the best. That's not even fun for tryhards because it means there's no room for improvement or pursuing new goals

[@v.d.2090]

​@@snargelfargen1most optimal players don't like their optimized build, and they probably don't even recognize that. But that's and issue with the game and its balance. Like the shield in Demon's Soul or Dark Soul. Players were hiding behind it and missing the fun of dancing with the bosses. Bloodborne was here to teach us that.

[@dethbedsmolzwhent.t6498]

Had that Happen to me with someone who's using a Raiper -__- I just forced quit then went.back in.

[@Ziostorm]

Try-hards are absolutely a detriment to game health and fun. I understand why some people optimize the fun out of a game with broken builds and meta strategies, but it absolutely sucks to play against. Elden Ring specifically is an RPG so there’s an element of role playing and using your character that adventured through the game. By hyper-optimizing, they take away the RPG element and turn the game into something it isn’t meant to be. Realistically, this could be prevented with proper latency and balancing, but it isn’t so there will be that void. And since there’s no competitive incentive in ER, going full try-hard doesn’t make much sense. That being said I love all the PvP bros🙏

[@Ziostorm]

Also have to disagree a bit with Jee on the winner’s mentality. You can still give it your all, but if you’re not using the hyper-specific meta build at all times you won’t win against someone that is. Is it “not having a winner’s mentality” to still want to play the game as an RPG? I’m not sure that’s a fair argument when the game isn’t balanced around all builds. That’s not necessarily the player’s fault. Ex: not using BHS for the first few months of Elden Ring’s life cycle.

[@gwynmoth3940]

@@Ziostorm I think domination 101 put it best though, with it saying you can play any character you want, but don't pick a character that is bad just because they are bad.

[@YeeterSkeeter-uw4mu]

Absolutely based and Zio pilled. Couldn’t have said it better.

[@rain89skarlet80]

cant agree more

[@rain89skarlet80]

@@gwynmoth3940 in fighting games i stick to the hottest girl^^ yes iam a victim of sex sells

[@jeremygeorge5334]

Try-hards and casuals are pretty much just the reverse sides of the same coin. Try-hards like to counter that some are just casuals, and casuals just say the reverse, when most of the time, those "categories" don’t even fit most people. It’s just bruised egos and terrible coping habits most of the time.

[@One_Millisec]

That cat going "Huh?" is just perfect.

[@keratinus5798]

It's honestly very interesting watching someone as they pretend to be a sweet person that tries to protect new players, players that are trying to have fun etc. but then showing a comment from reddit that simply states the commentor's own opinion and feeling about something without even being rude to anyone just to edit in a laughing scene and mockingly repeat their comment, without even showing any counterarguement to their arguements on the topic in hand. I watched a few of your videos and every single one of them you pulled up at least one reddit comment, made one of the commentor for being fat, laughed to them and moved on to trashtalk another person. I think you should change your KZbin channel description, you don't make Elden Ring memes. In fact you don't even produce content. You just attack people that honestly talk about their opinions.

[@eethanl]

I just don't like seeing the same build repeated over again just because its good. I commonly feel like im playing against a meta build instead of another player and it just becomes PVE with latency toxicity and lack of immersion.

[@stuckstepsis6976]

I play arena every other day and I never see same builds. The variety is huge. This "meta" hate is excuses of bad players. I killed a guy with a damn ringed finger and he sent me hatemail. It seems that meta = being good at the game. Okay guys next time lemme just bend over and let your garbage skills fuck my ass for free are we happy then? Wow great game yay!

[@platinumangel2706]

The problem is (especially in elden ring) meta typically isn't one build there is always counter play it's a big rock paper scissors match if you don't like what they are using swap to the weapon or strategy that beats it

[@creaseconquer3364]

​@@platinumangel2706 very unrealistic argument ngl. What if you aint got the stats to use the weapon that counters it? Players should diversify their builds, use something new, elden ring isnt an irl sport with prizes (if you consider a furlcalling finger remedy a prize? Just walk 2 feet outside elleh and you can grab enough to make 3 remedies so thats not an excuse to sweating) play something you think could be fun/interesting!

[@platinumangel2706]

@@creaseconquer3364 you pick up lots of weapons throughout your play through of verying types and can make everyone of them fit your build by infusing it with your type of scaling if you have a problem with a particular build that you see enough to complain about it have 1 weapon that counters it in case you see it isn't that far fetched

[@creaseconquer3364]

@@platinumangel2706 weapons also have stat requirements.....

[@HonakoGreen]

I think the issue most people have with "Try hards" isn't them doing their best to win it's the terms of service breaking nonsense like save editing to have an unlimited stock on items you aren't supposed to have, Like Star shards etc. There's a lot of minor cheating that goes on that results in MASSIVE unfair advantages. Also a lot of "skill" in this game is just taking advantage of FROM's bad netcode and UI programing

[@Fire-Branleur]

​​@@stuckstepsis6976 i can't talk for him but for exemple if you had bad connection and used quickstep spam in ds3 you were almost intouchable as long as you had fp and stam

[@odix87]

I guess that 'most people' might say that, but the logic is still flawed. A good enough player doesn't need an unlimited stock of anything and doesn't need hard-swapping (as in 'taking advantage of the UI') either. In a fair 1v1 scenario on a good connection when a player knows their spacing, how to prioritize targets, how to put pressure on their opponent, and has the manual skills to execute it, no amount of hard-swapped items or used consumables will make a difference. Hard-swapping is just a gimmick. It rarely provides any advantage. Sure, you can pick 'the right tool' on the fly. But if you're good enough, you know that smacking a nail with a hammer will solve all the problems anyway... ...or you come prepared and bring what's needed on the first place. All that may be helpful when fighting a gank of people who keep resummoning others to fight over and over, turning a 1v3 into a 1v3v2v3v2v3. Trust me; I had invasions where I just couldn't get the host even though I killed his 6-9 resummoned friends. Ironically, those are the people calling others 'try-hards' the most, so... What I'm trying to say is, people who just want to pvp don't want to (and shouldn't be required to) run through the entire game multiple times only to collect more of the same item. Farming upgrade materials or consumables is tedious, serves absolutely no purpose, and doesn't improve a player's skill. And at the end of the day, it makes zero difference because if item duping was not a thing, people would actually just farm them anyway. And I know that because I did farm bloodgems in Bloodborne for hours on end. Funnily enough, I never pvp'ed in that game. I did it because I love just love Bloodborne. But the point still stands. So! Am I a 'try-hard' just because I want to play the game the way I find it fun? Or maybe you are a try-hard because you want to 'do everything the hard way,' hmm?

[@snargelfargen1]

From needs to add a newgame+ vendor that has unlimited stock, it would make everybody happy. No-one wants to grind.

[@HonakoGreen]

@@odix87 Your just trying to justify cheating. And it's one thing to save time on items you can farm/buy like arrows or fire bombs. It's another with items like Star Shards/Golem Arrows etc. There's no amount of play time that will allow frequent use of these items. A lot of "try hards" use so many star shards / golem arrows etc in a single invasion it would take hours to "re supply" let alone using them every single invasion. And that rarity is BY DESIGN. FROM SOFT wants items like star shards to be used for that extra sweaty invasion you really want to win or hard PvE boss fight. It's physically impossible to use many of these items as much as "try hards" do. Thus the cheating doesn't just save you time it allows you to play in a way that's impossible for someone that isn't cheating to match, witch corrupts the whole multiplayer experience People can play their game however they want up until they are breaking ToS / cheating. Even if you don't like the systems FROM put in place or Bamco's ToS that's no excuse for cheating.

[@2HandHangerDunksOnly]

@@odix87 playing through the game 9 times for your stack of 99 starlight shards, and farming for hours on end for your golem arrows and drawstring rot greases is more admirable than save editing. You could also just re-load your save from cloud when you run out, no need to cheat

[@Bona_Tempora]

In my opinion a “good” try-hard in ER is the kind of player who can perfectly parry and know flawless attack timing because they’ve taken the time to actually hone their skills. A “bad” try hard is the kind of player who abused the fire’s deadly sin+deathblight exploit and then pointed down/teabagged whenever they won.

[@TheRealShiruken]

Agree!

[@falcoon_f_zero9450]

Then there's the absolute menace of a player who's both of those XD

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

I, for the life of me, will never understand why stationary R1/L1/L2 can be called "try-hard" for simply being meta - I thought being a try-hard, meant you tried hard, and the rest were "slaves to the meta" or "shit at the game"

[@vadandrumist1670]

I always thought of "tryhard" as the attitude in regards to others. The people who get upset at others for not playing with as much seriousness as they do, even if they actually are but just having a better mood about it. Its not even about skill though, its about the way they think the game should be played. So the person who got upset at you would be the tryhard, while if you had gotten overly upset at him *not* running away to regen or something, that would've made you the tryhard.

[@TheDapperDragon]

Ding ding, this is the answer. Yes, generally, being a tryhard leads to you doing anything to win, and sacrificing logic, morality, and common decency in that pursuit. While I do see Waifu's cowarding out as a lame, boring thing to do, it's not tryharding, it's just boring and awful to play against.

[@stuckstepsis6976]

" Its not even about skill though, its about the way they think the game should be played." The irony 💀 So, if good player hands your phony prancing around dumb ass to you with a fucking dagger, is he not allowed to play because he is actually good and didn't want to join your anime cosplay? Yeah fuck that guy!

[@Alloveck]

Agreed. All this really comes down to is different personal opinions about how the game should be played. Personally, I would never back off to regen like that. Sure, it's clearly valid within the game as designed, but I don't really see where drawing it out like that just for a tiny little bit more health really made the match any more fun. But to somebody else, NOT trying every possible option to wring out a victory is the disappointment, and that's not wrong either.

[@3XC4L1B3R]

I can understand the sentiment, to a point. When I hop on ER for some laid back duels with my suboptimal build, it's disheartening to get slaughtered by the guy with dual lances crouch-wiggling to make it impossible to read the crouch attack.

[@falcoon_f_zero9450]

Especially when the game in question is an RPG but the pvp side punishes you for using a fun themed build.

[@Isythos]

Well yeah I think people just dislike being forced to play a select few of the optimal builds to play the game. This is more the downside of the internet making it so that everything broken is replicated by tons of people instead of a few. It's like when I used to play league back when it first came out and it was loads of fun. Now it's even bronze players are trying to play like they are in masters and everyone has become super toxic and angry to each other. I don't see it is a problem necessarily, it's just more fun to play against other people who aren't playing the most optimal twinked out build ever for a lot of people. Most people aren't going to dedicate hours of their life looking up most broken stuff then make a character purely for that then practice it for 100s of hours. I'm guesing it would be more fun if elden ring had 'leagues' or 'mr' or something but it doesn't have that kind of PvP playerbase lol.

[@Deadpooln2b]

Only loosers play the meta. Real players have their own build, despite it being sub-optimal. Because real players can have fun despite loosing, they dont cry and complain, then get rivers of blood so they can win more

[@fullfildreamz]

While I agree with your assessment, I also think that most "tryhards" in the community are also scrubs. They proclaim that you need to learn the game, but then start crying like babies when encountering anything mage related. Then it all goes out the window, and it's not about learning the game anymore, but rather about complaining that their toys aren't 10x better, and that they have to adjust to their opponent.

[@dgnofdarkness]

Exactly! What separates the try-hards from people that are good is the constantly complaining. When they lose it's never their fault, there's obviously something broken able the game or the other guys were cheating or some bs. Jeenine is the worst example waifu could've use because if you've ever seen his streams, he's the biggest try-hard out there. I saw him invade some one who was obviously a PvE player with a buddy in castle sol. The host was just trying to progress, the buddy knew how to pvp. Jeenine kept getting his ass kicked, BHS'ing away and healing to hard swapping constantly and spamming starlight shards. He must have used at least 30 of them. The host never engaged, the sun bro kept handing Jeenine his ass while the host was only pushing for the fog wall. In the end Jeenine was claiming they were gankers, it was obviously an unfair fight and a hundred other excuses, but anyone watching could see the host never engaged and it was never a gank. Really, you can tell the try-hards because they've cheat engine'd 100 copies of the same weapon, infinite starlight shards, infinite string and max boluses. Easiest indicator.

[@TheRealShiruken]

Strongly agree!

[@TheRealShiruken]

@@dgnofdarkness Also, strongly agree!

[@TheRealShiruken]

@@dgnofdarkness This example s S-Tier, JeeNINe is as of a salty tryhard as they come and with all the advantages he tries to use he still can't scrape the ankles of a highly skilled pvp'er.

[@CuriosityMisledMe]

@@dgnofdarknessGod damn, I knew the guy was a whiney crutcher but that’s hilarious.

[@SoLowKaspar]

I'm usually just a casual player but when I notice someone is obviously very skilled and/or using good gear. That's when I "try-hard" to try to match up to their skill. I still usually get my ass-whooped anyways lol but always gg

[@Fayrinn_09]

People underestimate how hard it is to fight experienced whip players lol. If they use bloodhounds step with a whip then you pretty much will never hit them

[@Ming1975]

As long as they don't impose how you should play it's fine, we get to win or lose "our way" is how gaming is fun.

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

I'm sorry to say this, but using Bloodhounds step to back-up any claim isn't a good way to go about it... You're not wrong (even after mentioning BHS), but I'm going to rephrase what you said in a way that try-hards will read it (and is an accurate description mechanically) , and let's see if you think it's such an impressive claim after : people underestimate how hard it is to fight experienced Teleporting Tarnished with Reach Weapons it's not impressive man, I'm sorry -- I really am, and I know you're probably proud of being a whip dude, but dude... whips and BHS is/has been part of toxic meta for a while because of it's ease of use and I-frames. Like, you could put it on a dagger, a mace, literally anything, and you probably won because of it, 9 times out of 10, in part because of how it works, in another part because of latency; there is just no good time to say "I'm good with (weapon), and I love putting BHS on it", people will immediately assume you have little to no skill toting BHS around as anything other than a toxic meta like release version Rivers of Blood, or BHS counter. Sorry if my info-dump hurts.@@Fayrinn_09

[@Fayrinn_09]

@@SunWukongSonGoku I don’t even use whips lol or bloodhounds step for that matter. I’m talking about whip users alone and whips aren’t even OP at all. I did say if they is BHS it’s op but that’s a side note. Whips aren’t as OP as spears, great spears, great swords, ultra great swords, etc. So someone who can use a whip well is in my opinion not that bad of a player especially if they aren’t using a bleed whip.

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

"I don’t even use whips lol or bloodhounds step for that matter" my bad, I assumed such because of "People underestimate how hard it is to fight experienced whip players lol" to : "someone who can use a whip well is in my opinion not that bad of a player" I remind you I already said "You're not wrong" I was never in disagreement with you, simply misunderstanding your statement, thinking you were a whip user purporting to be skilled, while bringing up BHS to support the notion of whips and skill@@Fayrinn_09

[@passahok]

Hard swapping every time your attack fails is the thing that gets me. edit: Jeenine... winners mentality fucking lol

[@lilgoblin3687]

i mean if a player sees you know how to dodge a weapon's move set its completely reasonable to switch to something that won't be as easy to completely evade, and besides i would consider someone being able to manage a fight and his inventory at the same time to simply be a skill set that he has, its also more interesting when you have to adapt to attacks from different weapon move sets

[@passahok]

@@lilgoblin3687 In an invasion sure though in the same way that the map is locked in combat I would prefer it if the inventory (even if just armour and weapons) were locked. Reason being that these games, since day one have always been relatively grounded. It is one thing to be fighting a warrior who can shot lightning from his spear but quite another thing to fight some one who uses every weapon in the game (though really only the 'meta' ones), equipment load be damned. If someone dodges your attack, try again lol. In the arena you've got what, 2 mins to fight after how long of waiting? All that time to select your tools and get ready. Then to waste every ones time because your ego cant take your opponent dodging your attack. You are inevitably going to encounter every type of player wielding all the types of weapon in your journey, it is annoying to encounter them all at once in one go and awful for a new player. (I don't aim this at you my friend)

[@lilgoblin3687]

@@passahokalright i will just respectfully disagree with your opinion and call it a day then🤝

[@little-rat-tim]

​@@passahokits not about ego and its not about wasting time. just trying the same thing again isnt a valid strategy, its insanity (its arguably more of a waste of time) i can see where youre coming from, but i still think that keeping the inventory unlocked is better, because it makes the skill ceiling higher (which is good for competitive gameplay) and prevents some unbalanced match-ups since you can always swap to something that works better against someone else

[@skonk6980]

I do believe that this weeks weapon is the nobles estoc, in all of its low drop glory.

[@irwan86]

Jeenine playstyle is the definition of try hard, its so boring to watch, nothing new

[@Anniehater]

Don't watch him then. Simple as. Also, have you ever heard of reddit? That could be a better platform for your bitching. Anyhow, I hope this comment gave you the attention you so desperately seek because of the lack thereof you received in your childhood.

[@bababooey7486]

Watch his channel before you make another braindead take, he tries new builds all the time. He can go from a glass cannon dragon communion breath build to a fire shortsword dagger build. Literally pretty muc all of his recent videos as of right now have to do with him doing new builds. Hes just good in the process. He can use PSGS or PSSS if he wants too, but he doesnt most of the time.

[@Anniehater]

L take

[@bababooey7486]

@@Anniehater my take or the original comments take?

[@Anniehater]

@@bababooey7486

[@spectralspectra2282]

I think that a tryhard, by my definition, is someone who takes every advantage they can get, uses every trick on the book, to tip the scales into their favour, they win their games by exploiting broken builds and weapon combination and have an unhealthy obsession with winning, they are the kinds of people who would full combo their little sister in street fighter. Thats what a try hard is to me

[@INEEDTOREST_]

It’s not broken it’s “optimal”

[@RestlessTheRED]

The people you're describing are called "shitters", not tryhards.

[@valhalla_1129]

I value your right to believe what you want but do not tell me that someone using dual spears is playing "for fun". Nobody has ever looked at the dual spear set-up and gone "wow this truly is the best looking moveset in the game, I really want to utilize this to optimise the amount of fun I get out of this". I get some people simply have fun playing optimally, and that's fair, but there's no way the guy isn't doing this because he worries he might lose 50% of his matches with a different weapon and cannot stand being part of the regular group of players who win some and lose some.

[@Deadpooln2b]

Very true, playing a OP build has one purpose, to make you win. The guys that play the meta are idiots that cannot imagine having fun while loosing

[@thefinalday5858]

​@@Deadpooln2b Has fun while loosing= looser

[@Deadpooln2b]

@@thefinalday5858 I have fun while having fun. Wining while abusing broken mechanics is not fun. But keep tryharding, looser

[@elliottjoffe145]

While hard-swapping is obviously permitted and should not, therefore, be criticized, I do think a separate game mode that rendered the menus off-limits during arena play would be interesting, as it would emphasize build and add another level of strategy. Hard-swapping, on the other hand, emphasizes tactics and muscle-memory/controller skill, which is fine but obviously a slightly different game. I think the addition of a no-menus option in the arena would satisfy those who dislike hard-swapping while permitting the technique for those who prefer it. Just think about the level of strategy that would go into consumable selection pre-match, for example. It would also be pretty easy to code into an update.

[@ethansam3443]

It would also give an interesting advantage to a player wearing lighter, non-meta armor (something other than bull goat/vet’s armor set) as they’d have the option to carry more weapons to soft swap to. Would be very interesting.

[@fullfildreamz]

The strategic depth added by hardswapping is insane. You don't add anything by removing it. You only remove massive amounts of depth.

[@purify4now]

@@fullfildreamz you clearly haven't tried to understand what OP said.

[@catdasti]

@@fullfildreamz elliottjoffe145 meant that if you remove the hardswap, there will be a shift from the action to the RPG component of the game and will add more balance, hardswap fans will have to sacrifice protection, balance or talismans to have a choice in weapons

[@falcoon_f_zero9450]

Indeed. The game's an RPG at it's core and RPGs like Elden Ring are about building a type of character with a certain archetype and trying to play to your strengths and handle the disadvantages of that archetype. Hard swapping kinda circumvents that RPG aspect.

[@MisterMixxy]

Not gonna lie, going on a 4-minute-long speech about how being a try-hard means having a "winner's mentality" and "giving things in life your all" is probably the most try-hardy thing I've ever seen, lmao. For me, personally, a try-hard is just a player who has absolutely no chill. The kinds of players that, if they win, will start sprinting in circles and mashing buttons because the gearbox in their head is stuck on "GO GO GO"

[@alexgroot2508]

It becomes a problem when your 'winner's mentality' turns something that was, up till that point, engaging for everyone into something that can only be fun for you IMO.

[@moose7145]

That only will happen in environments where casual play is heavily reinforced. If the environment is competitive, to complain is to wine about the competition in itself.

[@alexgroot2508]

@moose7145 considering theres no formalized leaderboard in Elden Ring and that the majority of people clearly do *not* try-hard, casual play applies to Elden Ring.

[@TheIronbound]

A tryhard is someone who's always running the most optimal build while always going for the most optimal playstyle. It's annoying because you have to either change your whole setup to most optimal as well or play very defensive if your opponent is halfway decent at the gameplay neutral. I on my part don't want to change my build every time, so I simply don't play against such people. No hard feelings.

[@EmissaryOfStuff]

Hard-Swapping Mid-Combat is a bit different from other abilities imo. Fundamentally, everyone can roll, jump, parry or equip a certain weapon or armor piece. Obviously, there will be skill gaps in how they are used, but it's something all players will generally have access to. Now, Hard-Swapping is a Game Mechanic of course, but to effectively use it mid-combat in either PvE or PvP requires the ability to handle the menu fast enough, something I figure many players can't, certainly not me. And if such a player were to have Hard-Swapping used against them, it could easily feel like their opponent has an unfair advantage, an ability that they themselves don't have access to. I'm not saying that being able to Hard-Swap mid-fight is actually an unfair advantage and I don't really play PvP myself, but as someone who can't effectively Hard-Swap, I can see how it could be frustrating to go up against.

[@jodofe4879]

To me, a try-hard is someone who wants to win so badly that it comes at the cost of everything else. They lose sight of the fact that you are just playing a game and forgo basic sportsmanship. People who cheat, who get upset about losing, who leave derogatory comments, who behave disrespectfully towards their opponent are all examples of try-hards. In any competitive game, you should try your very best to win, but that should not come at the cost of basic human decency. Especially not in a game where whether you win or lose is ultimately inconsequential.

[@sdfrtyhfds]

when you can kill people in two hits in this game, playing try hard means playing in the least engaging, fastest yet at the same time most boring way possible. Everyone plays the same way, That's most duels right now.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

Spot on 👍

[@hoovy2319]

I’d say the line between a Try Hard being good and a Try Hard being bad is if the Try Hard proceeds to be an asshole and taunts after they do what they do. I’ve got no problem if a Try Hard fights honorably and wants a fair fight, but Try Hards that’ll taunt you and talk shit on your Steam profile after they beat you is what I got a problem with

[@kodeyPodey]

More videos about me!

[@michaelbrady8602]

Who nows you might get a other one just wait

[@LeGabrielMan]

Now we just need tulok here and Waifu will have all His friends

[@reddead5945]

At this point it's a skill issue

[@ST._Trinas_Torch]

Can't wait for new bow builds with the dlc and to see more content

[@krux9149]

Are you Die hard?

[@NardNF]

Imagine you're playing ds3 for the first or even the second time and getting invaded by a full lapp with pkcs, tears of denial, fricking xbow on the offhand and multiple hard swaps to gundyr's, ledo's and let's say murky just to f*** with you even more, doing all the crazy stuff like estus cancels, refilling and even moveswapping just to squeze out the victory and meanwhile you are just playing through the game for fun. That is a try-hard no matter how good he actually is

[@falcoon_f_zero9450]

That's almost exactly the type of player I got invaded by last time in DS3. Invaded me in the early part of Catacombs of Carthus, full Lapp's armor, Avelyn on off hand with explosive bolts, hard-swapped through 6 usual meta weapons, always retreated deeper into the level among the enemies when health was getting lower, and the fight led all the way to the boss door. And there I am with just the Fallen knight armor and the Old wolf curved sword. It went on for so long and they would not stop to duel to the end until they ran out of level, even tried to make me fall down the rope bridge, so there was nowhere to go after it. Thankfully a lucky parry made them panic like 19 minutes in and it finally ended. But god, even in a usual invasion against a random chump going through a level they do their damnedest to win, dragging out the fight throughout the entire level for near 20 minutes.

[@robertoaltuve4145]

I don't care about their uses of "top items", that's their loss thinking dark souls is league of legends, lame people. But using glitch? And calling it meta? WTF. First time i saw that estus glitch i was disgusted af, they were bad, bad, bad, but they could just spam roll and heal infinitely, being even more easier the glitch when they are the host, the only option is to kill them fast, so if you use slow weapons you are fucked, oh and they use the heaviest of armors, mostly cathedral one, so you don't kill them fast, oh and they use tears of denial too, so they stay at 1hp, just in case, JUST IN CASE, you manage to do enough damage. So they can't heal. Even healing spells has limit uses. At that point just cheat stats, and get infinite s. Which in fact some of these people do... And then they call it "meta". Black separation crystal and a block is all they deserve.

[@falcoon_f_zero9450]

@@robertoaltuve4145 It's worrying how many in the community think abusing glitches as "meta" or "tech". They really consider cheating as a legitimate strategy. That and invading noobs with endgame gear. Then they wonder why invaders always get nerfed more in each game that comes out.

[@102ndsmirnov7]

@@falcoon_f_zero9450 It's honestly because they're generally losers, bad at the game or both. So they'll do anything to try and win.

[@wadewilson2369]

I never thought I would get precise gaming terms descriptions from Ranni. I'm not complaining this is great. Keep up the good work.

[@sterquiliniis7583]

Nah if you hit someone mid opening gesture you're a try-hard period, almost no exceptions.

[@ichi-obi]

yeah like, i dont care what you do to win at least have some decency to gesture or wait for me to finish gesturing

[@Bioguy5]

I don't know what you're point was with the Steel clip. The guy hit a dude that was gesturing. In what world is that not asshole behavior?

[@laukpauk6053]

Yeah. If attacking someone while they're saying hi in order to win is considered playing "optimally", I'd rather play casually and lose

[@GunLobster]

You can just roll away from it and do the same to the guy.

[@zeroxion564]

See, I see a real big difference between the two duels given, myself. In the duel with waifu, he was responding to an escalating threat and changing tactics. He thwarted the common approach of chucking daggers through quick think and hard swapping which is a god damn skill, no matter what people say. I may soft swap, but thats cause I just am not good enough to hard swap in 1vs1. In the duel with Steel, we saw the opposite. The double lancer feels like a try hard not because he didn’t gesture, but because he didn’t have the decency to wait and see if Steel was the sort to gesture. Someone who plays optimally understands that what optimal can mean is different depending on the situation-not just from game to game, but match to match. An optimal player will often use matches against threats they deem low to relax and test new things-to see if they can learn new ways to optomize themselves even more at the cost of potentially losing a match or two. If you see yourself invaded by some silly roleplay invader as an example-E. G. I’ve been invaded by more than a few phatoms who aren’t hostile and get their kicks from just going around guiding the host-all it takes is stoping for five seconds or less to just look and evaluate what type of threat you’re up against. I still have to choose whether they’re 100% trust worthy, but it is as simple as stopping to see if they stop and acknowledge you or rush right in. Most players, even when they dont gesture will pause a certain distance away, and this gives you time to evaluate and make contact so long as you see them. A try hard doesnt take those few seconds to evaluate. They treat all other players as top tier threats because they don’t get why other players don’t have their mindset for winning, and are willing to use any means to win from the get go regardless of how it may ruin another players experience. There is nothing wrong with wanting to win-I certainly want to win-but being able and willing to look at the fact I may not have to try my hardest to accomplish my goal to win is important.

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

No, both are try-hards, they just have different mentalities - one is there to put their skill to the test : doesn't wait, doesn't gesture, may or may not be running an optimal/meta build, the other is willing to test their skill : will wait, may gesture back, may or may not be running an optimal/meta build. While most try-hards gravitate toward optimal/meta builds, there are still try-softs that participate in optimal/meta builds, so if both try-hards and try-softs can meta, the difference is mentality - putting in the effort to win, putting in the thought to win, putting in the time to collect/upgrade gear to win, learning "combos", stats, frames, etc., both (and more) kinds of try-hards participate in these (at least some - even if intuitively). What you are describing, is mentality, morality, or a combination of the two, and specifically: etiquette.

[@zeroxion564]

@@SunWukongSonGoku mentality, morallity, and ettiquette are a part of try-harding, though. It's not all skill, or watchers would be shouting at almost every professional player in any game and calling them all tryhards. There is a difference between a player that plays to master the game and a try hard, if only because the players that get called tryhards are--more often than not--the ones that capitalize on advantages that are just not fun to fight. From a sheer, cold, logical perspective, the most optimal way to play is to take any advantage, no matter how scummy. Some advantages, like jumping a gesturing player, can net a huge advantage in a fight, and yet jumping such a player takes very little skill or thought. It's mostly a roll of dice on whether you catch them off guard because they are trying to be nice. It isn't really representive of mastering the game unless you factor in specific exceptions and playstyles which show up in invasions (e. g. invasions are designed with ambushing in mind and there are spells like the artillery sorcery. The arena in elden ring which both of these examples came from... isn't really designed with ambushes in mind most of the time unless the arena itself blocks vision of the other player when starting like one of the maps did in DS3.) Both optimal players and tryhards can play meta builds and take the time to learn combos, but playing meta isn't the sole factor in being a tryhard. I've seen plenty of meta builds I could laugh at after the fact, and it's the same with my experience in games as a whole. Players only really start getting called tryhards from how they play combined with what they play, not strictly one or the other. The meta half is defined by the games balance, while the 'how they play part' gets defined by the player base/community and is mostly psychological. It all comes down to what feels fair, which is why you will sometimes see other games nerf things that aren't broken just because they are unfun for the vast majority of players to fight. That's not always a good option for From since the majority of their audience is not the intended audience at this point, but that's a whole seperate conversation. EDIT: Also, just to be clear. For that last comment on intended audience vs. actual audience, I mean that the games have become very mainstream to the point that we have lots of players who lack the skill to beat the game asking for easy mode or other things that go against what defines a souls-like being a souls-like in the first place. Nothing to do with PvP vs. PvE.

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

Jumping an emoting opponent can be a calculated decision, and 5 seconds of observing an emoting opponent's gear during the emote can be a calculated decision, and try-hards tend to try and make calculated decisions Etiquette and Try-Hard mentality are two things@@zeroxion564

[@123bambam4]

Equivalent of youtube redditor bitching about actual redditors. Its the internet, everyone comes off as a snob, it just goes down from the start. Regardless of intent.

[@Merq198]

I think what happens quite often is that the game has a clearly imbalanced weapon or something in it, and some sort of an "unspoken agreement" forms in the community not to use it. Then should someone come along and use that weapon for whatever reason they will be called a tryhard. It often spirals out of control into a player vs player argument, when the core issue is poor balancing of the game. Twinking, dual lances, thrusting swords... It's gets boring/annoying fighting against the same stuff so often, but it's on Fromsoft to fix those - so to speak - issues, imo.

[@glutt0n0us]

Twinking has been a thing since ds1

[@Kirokill1]

Game can never be balanced. There will always be things better than the other unless you strip it from all possibility of variety. It’s a responsibility for each person to be self accountant of their actions and decisions.

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

Right? like, imagine joining a shield wall with two daggers, and then complaining in the afterlife that "everyone on the opposing force was using shield and spear" like dude - how were you the strongest sperm? (I bring up that example to show that META exists in life, and that's where our examples of mechanics that need balancing, come from)@@Kirokill1

[@aidandavis9032]

I get the point you're trying to make with the winners mentality ect, but it's overcomplicating a simple definition. A try-hard is someone who tries too hard to win, and the first clip is a perfect example of this. Hard-swapping and a lot of other PvP techniques take a LOT of skill and practice, and using these tactics in order to counter everything your opponent does when they are actually sticking to their build fits the definition of being a try-hard (what I mean by build is not referring to their stat spread but rather the loadout of weapons & gear they choose). This is why skill-based matchmaking needs to be a thing, because while it is good to just take the L and move on it can become extremely unfun when it's 9/10 opponents you come across - this puts people off playing PvP entirely because the skill-gap is just too large so you feel like you have 2 options; to stop playing PvP for good or become what you hate "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" which is a bad mentality to have. So if you are what is considered a "try-hard" but don't want to be seen in a negative light, it's nice to take into consideration the fact that skill-based matchmaking isn't a thing, and try to observe your opponents skill level/playstyle. Who cares if you have 1 or 2 boring matches? 1 thing I like to do in these situations is try to teach my opponent, and every single time they seem to improve and the match becomes more interesting. I've also had other players do the same with me, and we both end up having a really fun time. At the end of the day what matters is if YOU are having fun. Other peoples opinions shouldn't affect your ability to have fun, so even if you get called out for being a try-hard, it's easy to just ignore and move on, just like it's easy for the loser to just take the L. It goes both ways.

[@josephmcauley3305]

What I love about fighting people who obviously spend their entire free time in PvP, is how easily they get destroyed by simple r1 spam because they’re so used to always delaying their attacks while twitching their character around LOL

[@glutt0n0us]

Pvp enjoyer here just wanted to add i would just switch to a parry sheild, so if you really want to go the extra mile spam until you see a parry tool and then just sprinkle r1s to not get riposted ! Gl hf

[@icebox1954]

@@glutt0n0us It usually helps to delay your attacks for half a second because they know when you're most likely to strike. Either way parrying is kind of tryhard in a bad way because you're allowed to switch to another weapon, two-hand it and then use the riposte for insane added damage. It's pretty cringe all around and although it's been a staple of the PvP community since forever it has always sucked and is one of the reasons why Fromsoft PvP is so garbage.

[@not_ITEMless]

😂true story man) they are dashing and shit and I still just spam R1 blood rapier till they bleed 👌

[@canadiangopnik7007]

for me, a try hard is someone who just wants to win for the sake of winning, for example, I once invaded people as a crucible knight, just the armour, weapons, incants, and gravity stone fans to mimic the stomp attack, and multiple times, as I approached and gestured to show my desire for friendly battle, I got ganked by 2 or 3 people using meta weapons, that's try harding, because I made it clear I was after a friendly and casual fight with both my very clearly non meta build, and my behaviour. The first guy was definitely tryharding, using nothing but meta, and interupting a friendly gesture, imagine if you were in a boxing match, you went to shake your opponent's hand before the fight, and they clocked you, it's just rude and poor sportsmanship. You were not tryharding in the second clip, running away and getting the opportunity to heal was made possible by your opponent's mistake of not putting pressure on you, he attempted a cowardly victory and got counterplayed. And for one final example, I've participated in quite a few high level fight clubs in DS3, and the fights usually lasted quite long, with both me and my opponent using everything at our disposal to win, and yet I wouldn't consider those people tryhards, because the only people who put on pvp covenants at high levels are people who take the game seriously, I joined those fight clubs to test my skills and I expected tough fights going in. That being said, when someone comes in with Havel's set and the Ringed Knight Greatswords, it's immediately clear that they have no intention of testing their skills, they just want to win to feel better about themselves, the same can be said of ER players, when someone comes in and just spams Giantsflame, it's pretty clear they just want to win for the sake of winning, and I despise people like that

[@sirnotawholelot7650]

On hard-swapping: Going back to the analogy from the beginning of the video - would rock-paper-scizzors be a good game if you were allowed to change what you picked after you see what the opponent picked? I think there is more strategy in preparing a set of equipment beforehand not knowing what you would be going up against and more skill in being able to adapt to what you're facing with what you have rather than in the execution of a hardswap.

[@felipeguedescampos851]

I understand this, but I think hardswaping makes the game more fun, being limited by only one weapon is quite boring for me

[@Nobody32990]

@@felipeguedescampos851 if you can hard swap weapons on the fly, why not spells? They need to be set before hand and what you chosen you are stuck with. If you can switch your entire equipment during the fight it stands to reason spells should not be exception.

[@felipeguedescampos851]

@galanonym2269 Yeah, considering how many magic slots you have at the end game, it wouldn't change the game that much. But it mighty be too much on pve in the early game

[@YeeterSkeeter-uw4mu]

@@felipeguedescampos851Hard swapping does the opposite for me. It kills immersion in the character and lessens the impact of a fight, even when my weapon is outclassed. There are few things more satisfying than sticking with a build and overcoming the odds on pure skill alone.

[@PollexLLC]

If you hardswap in the arena I just put my weapon away and stop playing doesn't matter how the fight was going before hand, you want a win so bad that youl exploit the game systems at the detriment of anoyher you can have it, but you wont get a satisfying win from me, you deny me a fun fair fight ill do th exact same to your sweatu ass.

[@Seoul_Soldier]

The term "tryhard" really only works in games with ranked and unranked playlists. Specifically FPS games. Bringing your high ranked sweaty ass stacked team to a casual playlist, makes all of you the worst kind of tryhards. You should be in ranked, where you can face teams that will actually challenge you. Not some random ass quickplay game mode against randoms who are usually solo. I don't personally see using meta weaponry/spells in Elden Ring as being a tryhard. Those things are meta for a reason. I do understand why people would get tired of facing the same cookie-cutter Reddit builds in a game with so many weapons/ashes of war, but that is a balance problem. "Tryharding" is a non-issue when the game is balanced, and Elden Ring is not balanced in the slightest. And this is unrelated, but JeeNiNe's stream chat really irked me. People already think that the PvP community is full of toxic, Dorito-eating, Mountain Dew drenched neckbeards and they 100% lived up to that reputation with some of the stupid shit they said. So here's a hard pill to swallow for every "bad red man" with an inflated view of themselves: Elden Ring would have sold just fine without any PvP whatsoever. If it didn't have PvE it would have been a failure. And this is coming from someone who genuinely loves souls PvP, wouldn't be subbed to Waifu if I didn't. But I also don't act like a self-important elitist cunt about it either. The PvP community should probably try that.

[@Banana-senpai]

I hear what G9 says, but if that's the case then a level 25 full bullgoats at stormveil is just "trying his best and being as optimal as possible".

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

The problem here is "bullgoat at stormveil", don't you think? 😏

[@Banana-senpai]

@@alessandrobaggi6129 Getting the best items is being as optimal as possible

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

@@Banana-senpai Noone should bring high-performance, late-game items to a starting zone...

[@Nobody32990]

@@alessandrobaggi6129 why not? There is no limitation on those game wise and if you "try hard enough" (bad joke, sorry) you can get them early with no exploits and involvement from player drops. By 9s logic it's all fair game (which is idiotic).

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

@@Nobody32990 I don't have so many problems with twinking, i play since DS1: either i face them and manage to win or i face them and they win, no big deal. The problem seems to be with new players not willing to deal with invaders at all, thus never learning to face them... From catered to these type of players with ER, so i see no solution here. 🤷 Edit: forgot to say that if i face invaders in ER is because i've used the TT; i don't coop in Souls, never did and never will (just some bosses here and there when i started).

[@TheTraveler980]

What about the Invaders or Gank Squads who play certain ways to win? Are you gonna defend their tryhard mentality despite how you ripped on them several times before?

[@TheDapperDragon]

No, because they tryhard in a way he doesn't like.

[@TheTraveler980]

@@TheDapperDragon What difference does it make if they're not held to the same standard?

[@TheDapperDragon]

@@TheTraveler980 That was me being a shitter, mocking him. Of course, they're just as wrong as hardswapping armor to a regen, then sprinting away to cower.

[@TheTraveler980]

@@TheDapperDragon Ah, okay. I bet OnlyWaifu won't respond to this.

[@bigirononmyhip3812]

Might be hard for ppl to take u serious on a topic like this when u often twink and kill low levels in limgrave with scarlet rot and all sorts of other things no hate just saying

[@zetaflaremax1708]

Making Ranni a Rantsona is the most in-character thing ever, let's be honest.

[@deputyhobbs9683]

I agree with most points, but still, roped fetid pots for dual lance guy. It takes the fun out of the game when your opponent uses a win button

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

Well, since he went for the crouch poke, it was two buttons, patience, timing, and spacing - but yeah, let's describe it in the same way we talk about Rivers of Blood L2

[@Trolhg]

@@SunWukongSonGoku"patience and timing" lol

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

​@@Trolhg I know it probably seems like "patience" and "timing" are, or amount to, the same thing - and often they Are used interchangeably, however, by definition they are different : example: 1 ) he patiently baited an opening instead of wasting stamina on spammed crouch pokes that would more easily have been predicted, dodged, and possibly countered and instead 2 ) used his knowledge of Committed Frames : or actions you can't cancel/can't easily cancel, spacing, and "wind-up frames" to know he would either hit first, or successfully trade (timing) two different words, to form one whole concept

[@TheOtakuKat]

There's a saying for this now called the Scrublords Prayer. "My controls weren't working and if they were, you were playing dishonorably and if you weren't, you were playing without skill and if you were, it's not fun to play that way and if it is, you only care about winning".

[@INeosIRex]

I would not say trying to win or a winners mentality is what makes you a tryhard. It's more like, trying to win while only playing the games meta (most of the time without fully understanding the meta).

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

I would say there is a difference in mentality between a Try-Hard and someone using a Shitter Build - e: see Rivers of Blood, release version, and all the people who used it but could only push L2 and got shit on routinely

[@Aetrion]

What people call a try-hard, munchkin or powergamer is ultimately a person who enioys solving the game at the expense of the game's themes, aesthetics, and value as a creative outlet. So yes, a try-hard does ruin people's enjoyment of the game, but it's really the game's fault for having a system that undermines its own themes, aesthetics and creative options. An example from the 90s: Bunny hopping. Nobody talks about this anymore, but in many older shooters you were simply at a massive advantage if you constantly spammed the jump button because ADS and accuracy simulations weren't a thing yet. So when military style shooters were first cropping up people got really annoyed with this. They wanted a game about soldiers peeking around corners and taking cover, and instead they got a game about people jumping around like crazy while firing a sniper rifle with perfect accuracy. So the internet was full of people going "I hate bunny hoppers". But the solution wasn't to somehow punish the people who were playing those games the optimal way, the solution was to make games with systems that created a play experience that was more in line with the theme of the game. Some games embraced the hopping, and introduced double jumps and rocket jumps and jump pads and low gravity map and just went all out on aerial combat, and other games introduced ADS mechanics and blooming crosshairs if you were moving around too much. Ironically that in turn gave rise to "campers" who simply never moved at all from the most defensible spots in the map, and once again shaming them did absolutely nothing, it was up to the developers to change the maps to balance that style of play.

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

Swapping armor is kinda lame. And the guy was a dick for attacking without gesturing. I don't watch much of this channel but it's looking more mid than i expected

[@itswindle1580]

The virgin “optimised for damage”build VS The chad “i think this weapon is cool” build

[@Seayeal]

I think this blue katana is cool then B)

[@itswindle1580]

@@Seayealgo for it!

[@icebox1954]

@@Seayeal If you get hit by Moonveil in 1v1 that's on you for being incredibly bad but in a gank squad it's pure cancer because the noob host is always running away and attacking off-screen. Maidenless behaviour through and through.

[@wolfhd_8]

My issue is the amount of meta builds in the game, which a lot of sweats use. There is no variety in pvp and the only way to compete is by using meta weapons that I dont even wanna use, which makes it boring asf. Like in the first clip with steevlosky, dual lances with moonveil and lionels armor, boring asf and annoying, seen hundreds of mfs like him. Ppl nowadays lack variety and only stick to meta, which makes the game not fun for ppl like me, who likes to branch out and try different things, thats the real issue i think.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

👍👍👍

[@CryoJnik]

My definition of a try hard is someone that tries to force everyone around them to play a specific way and berates anyone that doesn't adhere to their idea of how a game is to be played, up to and including newbies.

[@juice2307]

Okay, but what is the common term definition? You don’t just get to make up your own definition and use it while expecting everyone to use the same meaning. You have to find out what the common meaning is and use the word in that common way.

[@agentofdoof486]

I'm kinda glad I got introduced to pvp through DS3 in 2019 because it felt like the barrier to entry felt a lot more beginner-friendly than ER. Not only was I able to get initial exposure to pvp by getting invaded the invaders felt a lot less oppressive then in ER imo. Invasions also felt a lot more fun and chaotic with the Pontiff area being such a mixed bag where one invasion could be a brutal 4-man gank but the next is a hectic 3v2v1 (the 1 being either a confused Aldrich Faithful or a maniac purple). And if you wanted a more casual invading experience then you could go to places like Dragon Barracks. (I probably got some things wrong here so feel free to correct me) In my opinion, the greater restrictions to pvp in ER (no solo invasions or covenants, lower player limit) combined with the massive influx of new players feels like it led to a harsher pvp environment. Any game with a pvp aspect will lead to meta/optimal setups emerging (as much as I'm not a fan of jeenine, the whole "winner's mentality" is kinda unavoidable) and the previous combinations led to the whole "meta is toxic" and "if you do x then you're scum" talk being louder and led to a more negative image of serious/competitive pvpers. Personally I prefer to take things a lot more casually with pvp (faffing around, cosplay/fashion souls before pvp-optimised setups) and I don't fully understand why some people take the "winner's mentality" so far in a game with little no competitive support from the devs. At the end of the day it's a game and we should respect how people wanna play in a civil manner and not throwing hissy fits on the internet because you got poked by a cold metal stick one too many times. ...unless it's outright cheating/glitching or being a malicious prick about things.

[@stuckstepsis6976]

So basically; Dark Souls > Elden Ring. That's an easy statement to agree with. I know people who played Souls games only after playing ER and they liked Souls games more even tho they are janky and clunky. That's the charm of them though, Elden ring is just way too fast paced and the mmorpg style ashes of wars ultimately wasn't a good idea. Jeenine is absolute cancer btw, that guy is fucking depressed.

[@madisonc-s5531]

When you have spent over a decade winning against the Majority and the Meta The pursuit of Skill and Style become FAR MORE IMPORTANT than the necessity to win So the experienced player is far more likely to take risks learning new ashes accepting/learning from their victories and defeats and enjoys the outcome of trades and risks regardless of wins or losses Rather than being SO desperate not to lose they hardswap to dual nagis, royal revenants and run away for 16 AND A HALF HOURS Try hard is just new term for the old term: Sore Loser I beat dual nagi/madness/moonveil users with an offhand whip and a dagger because i enjoy the challenge Even though i could VERY EASILY go around colliseum fingerprint shield poking in full bullgoats But my respect for other players keeps me from doing so, parties end up enjoy the experience because of this The biggest problem of all however, is the fact that the fromsoft playerbase is known for having above average level of trouble comprehending basic morals, and respect for one another Thats the main basic truth

[@CuriosityMisledMe]

I never had much trouble with lack of morals on other players until Dark Souls 3. After that the average social IQ felt like it plummeted to room temperature.

[@madisonc-s5531]

@@CuriosityMisledMe Definitely, the worst thing about fromsoft games BY FAR, is the playerbase itself

[@UPComer22]

Use whatever ever but in the colosseum not gesturing or not allowing your opponent to gesture is bad sportsmanship. It is the equivalent of not touching gloves or pucning someone as they try to touch gloves in a boxing or MMA fight. Try hard and use all your skill to win. Dont be a bad sport and not gesture. In almost any sport they have some greeting before play i think the boxing is the closest.

[@1silversword]

We needed you in dark souls 1, people been hating on meta players for decades. Something people who talk shit don't seem to understand is that people playing to win and 'trying hard' are having fun, in fact they're having MORE fun of a purer type, at least when they fight another player with the same mindset. Victories are truly satisfying when you come to the table with everything you've learned, fully able to make maximum use of it, then outwit and outplay someone who is doing just the same. In comparison, jumping about and spamming r1s brainlessly might be fun for a bit, but it soon gets tired and then the casual player moves on.

[@comrad_cat]

a fun thing that you could do for the next mystery weapon is maybe show the AR at a certain upgrade level/ stat spread

[@Fayrinn_09]

That would make it much harder which is a good thing because I looked at the wiki for like 5 minutes and found out what the weapon was

[@thecuza9716]

That's just how all online multiplayer has always worked, and probably local multiplayer before that (someone with friends please confirm). - Everyone worse than me is a worthless scrub who needs to git gud. - Everyone better than me is a no-life tryhard who needs to get laid. - Everyone a LOT better than me is a hacker who needs to get banned. - Only I have the maximum socially acceptable amount of gaming skill.

[@Mamotraxer21]

Low Tier God be like:

[@MisterVictorVonDoom]

Die Hard? Oh I love the movie Die Hard! A great movie about a New York City policeman John McClane (Bruce Willis) is visiting his estranged wife (Bonnie Bedelia) and two daughters on Christmas Eve. He joins her at a holiday party in the headquarters of the Japanese-owned business she works for. But the festivities are interrupted by a group of terrorists who take over the exclusive high-rise, and everyone in it. Very soon McClane realizes that there's no one to save the hostages -- but him.

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

50/50 We all play to win. But optimizing to insane levels and only sticking to the best strategies is by all means something to shame… even if it is also 100% legal. Technically speaking, being a twink is also 100% legal. You are playing with a weapon that kills your enemy in 1 hit while tanking 100 attacks and with a matchmaking that’s very oriented to “mostly finding noobs” cause you have chances of playing against first time players.

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

Conclusion, there are no winners here. I ER PvP is a joke, everyone knows this. And DS2 was the best, crazy considering the popular community hated the game itself despite having the best PvP focus experience. And in my personal experience, DS PvP isn’t a skill circle-j****. If people play normal, you should play normal. If people start doing glitches, then I hope you know the glitches to level the playing field. Tell me which you prefer. “Regular play” or “doing everything”.

[@zawarudo8991]

@@josetomascamposrobledano4618 I agree on this 💯

[@laughincoffin9842]

Simple version of a try-hard to me is people that play to win that rage when losing.

[@CuriosityMisledMe]

Most of them do it as a result of losing too often irl. If they can’t at least win in a video game that they put so much time into, then they wouldn’t have much to be happy about. So despite their reputation becoming non existent; they use the strongest options. Not playing to win, nor playing for fun, but instead “Playing to not lose”.

[@The-Black-Death]

You and Jeenine seem to have a very misinformed and silly definition of what tryhards actually are in games, as typically in other games, like GTA Online for example, you will have people who will abuse overlooked or bad game mechanics or exploits in the game to win in PvP solely out of a lack for actual skill in the game, and it's the very same case in Elden Ring too as you even have noobs who've abused a lot of broken stuff in the past just to win and even have overleveled characters or summons, and if not that then just blatantly ganking to win as that would technically be an "optimal way to win" too... Playing with a tryhard mentality doesn't make you a better player in the slightest, as it just makes you lazy and careless a lot of the time because you're often abusing stuff or technical oversights in the game that'll give you an easy win in most cases and hardly punishes you for doing so. That's basically where everybody's problem with it actually is, because it only punishes the players who don't want to abuse and cheese stuff to win, I've already seen your videos on exploiters in Elden Ring and those just proves my point, as tryhards will often cheat to win if they can in any possible way without developing any kind of skill in the game. Say hello to the Fire's Deadly Sin abusers, Moonveil/River of Blood spammers, and Bloodhound Step abusers of Elden Ring's past as very good examples of what I'm talking about before all these things were rightly patched.

[@lukecetion]

I've always held the belief that "Try-Hards" are the people who will go to any length to stack the odds of winning in their favor. To the point where their chances of losing effectively falls below the 5% mark, regardless of their own skill levels. As in, people who will exploit a bug or a weakness in a game design to give themselves an edge in such a manner that it wasn't intended by the developer. Bonus point if they do it at the detriment of their own entertainment, as in someone who doesn't even find the tactic they are using to be fun to play, but are only chasing the 5 seconds dopamine rush from winning. That is not to say that wanting to win and trying your damnedest to do so is "Try-Hard" behavior. Generally speaking people don't like to lose and will try to avoid it as much as they can, but when you are clearly winning in a game of skill despite you having severely less skill than your opponents it goes far beyond just trying you best to win to succeed at a game. This can refer to using unbalanced items (as in clearly unbalanced), exploiting bugs, exploiting weaknesses in game design or outright cheating. To give a few examples: 1. Dark Souls (1) and its Crystal Greatsword hacker invasions. The people who would have "infinite" HP and one-shot you while applying instant curse to you with a single swipe of their sword. A person doing this have effectively removed any and all requirement for them to possess any skill beyond the basic knowledge of how to press an button. Using elements outside of the game (in this case a hack) to do so. 2. Dark Souls (3) Dark Hand Smurf invaders, aka people with a great deal of experience in the game invading with the intent of killing newer players using the Dark Hand weapon. This can technically be said for most form of "smurfing" though, as you are giving yourself a downright unfair advantage against the other players that massively increases your odds of winning without relying on your own ability to do so. 3. Elden Ring and certain Ash of Wars on release, such as Moonveil. Which I would argue was quite obviously overpowered (and From Software seems to agree with that given the nerfs). I am not talking about someone who happens to use Moonveil or another weapon and just so happens to use an Ash of War every now and then. I am more so referring to the people who didn't specifically find the weapon in question fun to use or even if they did they played around the specific element of it that was OP to the point where they almost never did anything else other than it. If you aren't using something that is obviously unbalanced, exploiting a bug/weakness in the system or outright cheating and you're using something you find fun while trying your best to win then I wouldn't call it "Try-Hard". If you are trying your best to win without stacking the odds in your favor to the extreme using methods not intended by the developer then I'd say you aren't a "Try-Hard". Though should you try your all to win at the detriment of your own moment to moment entertainment and that of your opponent's, using methods which removes any (or at least most) need of you own skill in the game while requiring your opponent to possess immense amount of skill to even stand a chance then I'd qualify that as being a "Try-Hard".

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

👍

[@YeeterSkeeter-uw4mu]

I think I can sympathize with the notion of both sides, though personally I have to kind of agree with the guy that Waifu fought. You go through the effort of creating a build centered around a particular form of combat arts and fashion, and for the opponent to do the same up and till the opponent starts losing feels very cheap and off. If I created a barbarian with a particular cosplay and incantations that reflect the character, you best believe I’m going to be annoyed if someone goes from fighting with spells to dual naginatas. It’s cheap and ruins the flow.

[@zeroxion564]

Yes and no… I have seen more than a few youtubers that keep their weapons fairly thematic but still hard swap. I can respect it when its used for varieties sake. I very much dislike when its just cycling meta… but I cant complain too hard since hardswapping requires a certain sort of distance and placement awareness that makes it really interesting to me-far more interesting than I ever found things like animation cancel ‘techs’ the biggest place hard swapping becomes immersion breaking is lower level twinking. There are occassions I twinked in DS3 but every single time, I handed down one weapon, fashion, and that was it. It made me particularly annoyed at the many watchdogs of farron who I occassionally saw juggling through ten weapons or more. I play cautious and the swamp is big, so they kept getting away. The fact I killed that one guy essentially 4 or 5 times (He had max estus for an invader) with him cycling that many weapons that early in the game was absurd, and I remember being so mad when he finally killed me and it felt like all that damn time was wasted. It was easily half an hour of cat and mouse when I just wanted to advance in the game, but I also just couldnt sit down and die when I saw just what obnoxious lengths he was gonna go to to beat me.

[@YeeterSkeeter-uw4mu]

@@zeroxion564could you name one or reference it as an example? I employ hard swapping every now and again but often it’s because it’s the same weapon with a different weapon art.

[@zeroxion564]

@@YeeterSkeeter-uw4mu Chase the Bro usually has a solid 5x5 block of weapons or more. Sometimes it is the same weapon with a different weapon art or its organized to have a row of the same thing so he can reach it fast, but usually he has a fun amount of variety and at least 10 different things. He'll have a few bits of meta usually in case he gets ganked hard, but he's usually super chill with how he operates, and the meta he has in any video can shift from stream to stream because he does thematic builds for his streams and invasions. I also feel like he doesn't always necessarily go for a strictly optimal swap? I see him swap a lot when what he's doing isn't working, and so with him a lot of it is generating advantage through the mind game of having a suddenly having a new moveset rather than necessarily jumping from meta to meta. He sort of optimizes by trying to understand when and where to use weapons, including more niche stuff.

[@zeroxion564]

@@YeeterSkeeter-uw4mu (KZbin glitched on me. Sorry for splitting this up) If you want a more specific example, though, I'll bring up Chase using Morgots curved sword. I haven't used it myself, so I dunno how powerful versus niche it actually is, but it's not exactly meta to me when most of the arcane builds I see are bleed with stuff like twinblades. It's a big breath of fresh air to see him swap, catch folks off guard with how far the weapon art carries him forward. Sometimes it opens up the opportunity to finish, sometimes he has to back off and readapt, maybe swap again, but it can lead to some really fun cat and mouse when done in higher metas. In lower level metas there's this issue of using it against newer players and fresh blood who won't have every weapon under the sun... which I have issues with, but this channel has more than a few videos with low level invasions that show players can hold back on using everything in their arsenal until they either find true scum of the earth that deserves it or a player skilled and experienced enough to warrant it.

[@rain89skarlet80]

@@zeroxion564 a can agree with your opinion of chase the bro but he never realy uses thematic builds...he always wears the same armor, weapons dont match the theme in terms of look they matches only his stats. a worse example (i dont mean chase) is a full bull goat with moonveil and stars of ruin magic which you saw in the first months very oft in invasion. i mean an gracefull katana like moonveil dont fits to the shitugly bullgoat amor it only fitted theyre stats and the meta.

[@realQuestion]

There are people out in the world who think my responsibility, when I sit down to play a video game, is to help THEM "relax." And not to "bore" them. Like you are their employee or something. That's really, really weird. Think about it for a little bit, and aside from the expected mockery of it that one sees in this video, it's actually almost unsettling. That said, the guy railing against hard-swapping was named "SmollPPMaster69" so unless OnlyWaifu edited it to say that, I wonder if maybe it was trolling.

[@Omega_2651]

If i'm not fighting a tryhard, the fights feel empy and a waste of time. Tryhard fights re the most fun ones

[@xenosayain1506]

Now to trigger the tryhards. I love the rage when they run to the other side of the arena to change their whole kit for low hp. I just burst heal since i can't catch them being we have the same sprint speedXD.

[@not_ITEMless]

Yeah that is a quest for a hatemail if they didn’t get you 😅

[@xenosayain1506]

@@not_ITEMless I take all the hatemail. It is playing optimally after all. It isn't my fault they run to the other side of the arena to give me a space.

[@Luxai]

A try-hard is just someone who detracts from the mood and fun in the context because he wants to feel superior.

[@QBcubed]

From my perspective a try-hard is someone who actively antagonizes other players for no reason other than to feel powerful for a brief time. I distinctly remember someone invaded me right before I would climb the ladder to a new part of the map. They made a fogwall show up, prevented me from moving on, and refused to approach. I'm not good at the game, I didn't want to have to deal with that entire part of the map again, so I waited for them to come to me and my buddy who were already up the ladder at the edge of the area. Rather than disconnect so that we could clearly move on with our lives, he kept emoting and everything until finally breaking and approaching ten whole minutes later...only to get pushed off to his death. I'm not playing to fight other players, I'm playing to have fun with friends and fight interesting/twisted creatures. MY experience shouldn't be dragged down because some dude wants to feel powerful for a minute.

[@FatRaccoon-eh9ig]

I totally agree woth you right there, all the way. Sadly, elden ring has players like that and I've seen players like that too who want to feel very op especially early level too. It's annoying...

[@icebox1954]

So while already cheesing the game with summons you decided that the guy who came in at a great disadvantage was the one in the wrong here and not the two virgins atop the ladder who cheesed the game twice over? Delusional mate.

[@FatRaccoon-eh9ig]

@@icebox1954 the invader is the one that chose to invade and one of the main things and reasons invaders are in is because of a summon. Solo hosts don't get invaded unless they use taunters tongue. Lol stop crying and moaning and whining and bitching like a little cry baby girl it's embarrassing. Souls games are inherintly meant to be unfair including invasions. Throughout all the soulss games, the invaders usually come across summons. Invaders can use enemies to their advantage whilst the host and summons have just them and blue hunters. Not everyone is in it for pvp yk, they're not sad. They just wanna play the game woth their friends. Some ppl are in it for for both but wanna primarily co-op and if an invaders comes in, they'll fight them if they have to just to progress.

[@hazeltree7738]

​@@icebox1954 "and refused to approach" "he kept emoting and everything until finally breaking and approaching ten whole minutes later...only to get pushed off to his death. " Please explain how standing still and emoting for 10 straight minutes isn't wasting time with pointless stuff. Because, to quote your own comment from a different thread, "if you waste my time with pointless stuff I will make sure to abuse your disrespect of my time." You can't say the hosts were "Noobs camping the ladder" or something because that was just the best strategy. And you want that, right? Since you're against letting someone do a respectful emote instead of just fighting. Refusing to climb the ladder is a waste of time, and therefore deserves to be punished with an easy kill. That makes sense with your own logic, right?

[@icebox1954]

@@hazeltree7738 They were indeed no skill noobs. If you can't climb the ladder because cowards are camping it then you can only wait. The solution isn't to let them cheese you it's to waste their time. You don't have a functioning brain if you think it's logical for an invader to let himself die because the host and his baby sitter are cowards.

[@zyrius]

It's true that try-hard gets thrown around to much (probably by the same people that cry for easy mode). For me it comes down to two things: context and sportsmanship. Lukewarm take: ER is still a RPG. That is the context. When 1.: you use only the most busted items & spells AND 2.: with no stylistic / character / whatever cohesion, when it is clear you've assembled your arsenal purely on merits of mechanical power AND 3.: that is your preferred style of play within a fair setting (for example a duel) 4.: against an enemy who does not use such tactics - I will think of you as a try-hard. Doesn't even matter if I win or loose. And yes, in the derogatory sense. Because there's no sportsmanship in it. Different context, different rules. There are other games where I would never consider "try-hard" to be applicable to anyone, no matter how they play. This is not a black and white issue, not even within ER / Souls. Nuances apply.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

👍👍👍

[@daydreamer2257]

Can't agree with this. There are absolutely points where 'playing optimally' counts as try-hard. Stuff like double bleed Cross-Naginata in low level invasions for example.

[@FantomMisfit]

Sounds like skill issue

[@thelouster5815]

I would argue the real definition of a tryhard is “being competitive in a casual setting”. For example in Halo MCC, let’s say you’re playing Social, the non-competitive playlists. You go up against a four-stack of players who are doing callouts, play the optimal positions, coordinate to maintain supremacy over the power weapon spawns, etc. Those are tryhards. They’re only going for optimal plays and the win. In Elden Ring or any From Software game, there’s really no casual setting, so calling people tryhards is always a stretch.

[@plantman1093]

Jeenine killed me yesterday with the serpent hunter, my coop killed himself and I died after being pinched between him and pve. I asked my coop why he threw, he said he didn't have time to deal with the run away strategy, it's easier to DC and enjoy the game since we have limited time to play.

[@emprahtherocket8175]

Remember when everyone used big weapons and not these stupid, asanine, ridiculous weapons? Pepperidge farm remembers.

[@theurge6183]

You can spot a try hard a mile away. Usually just by the weapon choices ie powerstance lance,fist weapons and ofc left hand cleanrot knights sword for the win. Its all good tho i usually just use my arcane try hard build too when i feel like being a doucebag myself 😅

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

I think you're misconstruing a "shitter build" for someone who is a try-hard, but shitter builds are a good sign they might be a try-hard

[@maru10x]

good tryhard = people who play a pvp game and wanna be successful for satisfaction. evil tryhard = dude who just wanna dominate no matter what, even if its just a group of frieds who tries toying around and have some fun without being serious. to be fair, if you play a pvp game, dont expect randoms to play chill and not using op meta set ups. Hate the game not the player

[@fib900]

On the debate of hard swapping, I can’t help but think about spells and how you have to attune them. If Fromsoft thought Hard swapping was a problem, they might actually be able to get rid of it.

[@FatRaccoon-eh9ig]

I hope they di because hard swapping mid fights is an unintended way to play the game. There's proof too. If you hard swap moon of nokstella talisman, your 2 spells will be gone. In ds1 if you trued to hard swap the ring of favour, it'll break and be gone completely till you get another. It's not 100% circumstantial proof but to a lot of ppl, it does suffice and seem reasonable so, yeah.

[@fib900]

⁠​⁠@@FatRaccoon-eh9ignot really proof… un-equipping a talisman and losing its effects is how all talismans work, and, to my knowledge, only the Ring of Favor and Protection breaks when you take it off in general, which partly seems more like a story reason with the Goddess Fina being possessive and fickle.

[@FatRaccoon-eh9ig]

@@fib900 I suppose that makes more sense seeing it that way, but the bottom line is hard swapping during mid fight in.like 2 secinds ir less is an unintended way to play the game. I don't see many players on console doing this because it's damn near hard to do all of that soo quick with a controller. Pc players do it quickly, quick their m&k cuz its easy on that. Hard swapping is just and unintentional way that ppl play and its scummy and show that they care about the game a bit too much.

[@_claymore]

@@FatRaccoon-eh9ig that's really not true. the majority of PC players use controllers for Dark Souls/Elden Ring and hard swapping works perfectly fine with a controller. Steelovsky, ChaseTheBro, etc. they all hard swap using a controller. nothing to do with input method, it's just a skill to develop.

[@FatRaccoon-eh9ig]

@@_claymore they do it, yes. I've seen those guys do it. But they practiced and got used to it. My main point is though which idk of you missed is the fact that hard swapping msinly during mid fights is an unintended way to play the game. If the developers intended ppl to play that way, wouldn't like more than 85% of the players including noobs be doing that? No, instead; ppl including myself stick with what I have and just complete the fight fair and square. I almost never see anyone hard swapping apart from sweaty pvp tryhard nerds. I'm speaking as someone who also likes to pvp as well but play clean and have respect for the opponent provided they play clean themselves ofc. But to reiterate - hard swapping is an unintended way to play the game and channels like this just don't seem to understand why. It's common sense at this point lol.

[@evanwarren1010]

complaining that it isn't playing the game as devs intended even though the action is hard coded into the game by devs is some super fun cognitive dissonance

[@qualityweeb2968]

About time someone finally realized that cringelovsky is a sad human being, most likely in need of comforting

[@Superluminal_30000]

True and Real

[@spiraljumper74]

Jeez what’d he do? I’ve only seen him when he’s playing with Jee but he seems like a pleasant enough dude.

[@imperatorricardo9380]

If your definition of "pleasant enough dude" is a player who resorts to trying to use game-breaking-glitches to win after dying a few times, then sure, he might be pleasant enough. But things get a wee bit ridiculous when you fail to chainsaw your opponents multiple times in a row and then have to take 15-20 minutes to practise how to chainsaw on-stream, and then block your opponent after you chainsawed them. Not to mention the endless false accusations of cheating, when all thats going on is the FromSoftware netcode being utter garbage. Doesnt seem the most pleasant chap to me personally, but each to their own.

[@Superluminal_30000]

@@spiraljumper74 it's sarcasm

[@qualityweeb2968]

@@Superluminal_30000 It wasnt sarcasm my friend, if someone who snipes people and fails to chainsaw for over 20 on stream isnt a toxic person then I dont know who is

[@austinrivers5782]

Only people I consider try hard in Elden ring are when I’m in a PvP fight and they start losing so they pull out some sort of exploit like before it was patched the eclipse shotel/fire’s deadly sin glitch so you just got basically instant death blight by standing next to them. Those people are “try hards” everyone else is just trying hard to win

[@SunWukongSonGoku]

While I appreciate the logic behind your reasoning, I am offended that you would insult my status as a try hard by likening cheaters/exploiters to me (because they aren't trying as hard as I am - they are actively taking steps to reduce the amount of hard they must try)

[@tobiasterry7194]

Notice how these people only say "wow, you are tryharding and only playing to win!" after they lose? But if you play against these people and end up losing then they have nothing to say, and if you acknowledge it they deflect? Ive been playing in various games at a local game store for a year now, tcg games, minatures games, etc. And have played and seen others play in tournaments held for these games. The amount of times I, And have seen others, get basically bullied for bringing our A game to such events we paid money to participate in is staggering and uncalled for. I think this video hits the nail on the head not just for elden ring, but for gaming and other hobbies across the board. Well done vid!

[@larb6314]

Not true at all. I throw shit pots at dual lance users whenever I beat them because they are filthy tryhards.

[@alexandrehuard1226]

League of legends player here. I agree with what you are saying. I like to be optimal when i play. A friend told me that i was try-harding to hard when i start suggesting what items we should build. My answer was im not gonna let him or i build items that does not help us deal with the ennemy team. I dont care if you like collector bc it auto-kills ennemy at 5% health. Against 3 chunky boys with 300 armour it is a dead item. Go take the anti-tank item and shred them.

[@Aadrianoss]

Nothing better then farming at good ol' Moghs palace and watching a new Only Waifu YT video

[@chadzard4]

Mogh's Palace? You mean the cash house?

[@Aadrianoss]

@@chadzard4 You mean the sloughter house?

[@kevo300]

If you ring and weapon swap mid fight you have no rights

[@mordeath_x]

Waifu I think you are the try hard here

[@malbowzer3006]

In my opinion a “try hard” is not someone who is trying there best but someone who uses every technique from the simplest to the kind of thing you’d find in a competitive game, to screw over someone who just plays casually. Example: I know this person is just playing (insert games here) casually but I’m gonna use a technique that deletes all there stuff then a supere tuff to pull of spell combo that locks them in place while I do chip damage, and once it ware’s off I’ll use an item that summon a massive giant the can’t even do damge to because there so low level and let it kill them. So what that person 1 did was technically optimal but drawn out, unnecessary, stoped person2 from learning, and very showoffish. They’re not a try hard because they we’re trying their hardest, but because they playing in away that while optimal was specifically designed to ruin someone’s experience even though it was utterly unwanted. However if person 1 did the same thing against person 3 (someone just as capable as person 1) it would not be try Harding it would just be optimal. And thus the people in that video were being unfair by calling the others try hards because they could have very well kept fighting, and it was not designed to be mean just to win.

[@Chudres]

Yo solo sé que, cuando veo a un sujeto con armadura de centinela agreste, cabeza de albinaurico o de algun animal de piedra, y doble lanza con paso del sabueso... Sé que no será una pelea divertida

[@Fo1ds]

Royal Remains use vs people trying trying to finish you off with fan daggers is perfectly justified ngl.

[@JD_Volt]

I agree that you should try hard, but I think it becomes bad when you begin abusing the meta. Once I was up against a faith build who used Elden stars, black blade, and ancient lightning storm to melt me. I don’t have an issue with trying hard, I’d say I do that, I commonly try to roll catch, use fast weapons to pressure and slow weapons to punish, and use incantations as openers all the time. But I prefer to build the way I enjoy instead of abusing Lionel armor and double naginata crouch poke spam.

[@falsechord]

its the game developers job to balance the game not the players. blame the devs not the players

[@flatmarssociety5707]

i used to be like this but i realised i have more fun if i just dont care anymore and just play to fuck around

[@treasurehunter3744]

This is why I and a few friends decided to use the Seamless Coop Mod. Only NPC invaders, steady allies and just having fun with the difficulty of Elden Ring as it stands. When it comes to becoming Elden Lord, the most important strategy is to pick your battles wisely. We decided that random players would have too much of a damper on our fun, and so we chose to not have potential enemy players ever. No need for a super optimized build for PvP, just whatever we find fun and comfortable for PvE so we can experience the world of Elden Ring. We made our choice. We cared about experiencing the game, not fighting in PvP arenas. Playing with our trusted peers was the only "win" we ever needed.

[@NANIXON1998]

It's a fucking RPG but it only rewards playstyles that don't encourage playing a themed character... you know, that thing fucking RPGs are meant for.

[@wildhamm9653]

I do see alot of fair points here that will leave me less tilted after work, but specifically for me hard swappings only annoying because its not designed at least like demon souls with limited items able to be held at least. Also its kinda like in rocket league where certain mechanics just take a fair amount of practice to learn and actually use that not alot of people have time for

[@wildhamm9653]

Also, not standing against i overall agree because of being "try hard" in RL

[@icebox1954]

Tryharding in Rocket League 1v1 is fine, being a dick isn't. Going for the demo is tryhard and pretty cheese as it easily means a goal most of the time but it isn't dickish as you allowed yourself to be demo'd. Never skipping your own goal replays but always skipping theirs or if you get the ball to their net and intentionally slowly roll it to their net or fully stop until they approach however is a completely dick move. If I see an opponent not skipping replays of his own goals and is on mine I'll tryhard and demo as much as I can while being a complete douche to the guy. Those people suck.

[@wildhamm9653]

@icebox1954 yee issue i tend to have is either people forfeit cuz i can speedflip and half flip or they just air dribble into my net and wreck me lol

[@sirvarg8658]

Being a tryhard is more like the accumulation for signs for one. Meta weapons, fighting style, "fashion", etc... Just one of them doesnt make you a tryhard but if you fit the profile altogether you cant complain when people start seeing you as one. It's a mutual thing, to understand when you see one. Also if Jeenine says winner mentality is a life philosophy as opposed to tryharding.....why is he still streaming video games, and not winning at life.....that just leaves the other option

[@CuriosityMisledMe]

I wouldn’t consider G9 to be worth listening to in all honesty. A player that complains about meta while using the most egregious, busted meta available to fight random players. And if one of them dares to cause G9’s absolute meta some turmoil, then they get classified as a shitter. With the way he acts he’s just a hypocritical man child that can’t take a loss.