The Girlboss Trope Is Much Worse Than Unattractive Female Protagonists

[@pegah_di]

I'm a woman who grew up playing the Tomb Raider games and fell in love with the old character of Lara Croft. Which is why I honestly can't relate to this new version of her in any way. The old Lara was clever, strong, adventurous, sassy, and yes, sexy. She was very attractive to me as a female player. The new version of her is this plain, bland, mopey, empty sack of a woman who has no agency of her own and is thrown into adventures without her will. In one of the games she even says: I hate tombs!! What is relatable or attractive about a character like that? I can't remember one time that I thought to myself as a teenager: oh Lara Croft is really hot, I think less of myself now. I always thought: wow, she's really fun and sporty and she likes to go on adventures and I hope to do that someday.

[@frederickryeland313]

My wife has the same impressions.

[@shinian6523]

Most female gamers I know will mod the heck out of a game to make their character prettier

[@noctoi]

Same actually. I MISS the old Tomb Raider! She had looks, she had talent, she had the silver spoon in her mouth but just enough trauma to make her relatable, and she had boobs for days! I LIKE boobs!! WHY?! Why can't we have boobs anymore?! I have boobs! Why can't my character have them 😭

[@theroseexperience]

Are you talking about the remake trilogy? If so, how is that Lara not attractive or have no agency? If you're speaking about the Netflix anime etc then I'm with you, but Lara in the games was very well handled and modelled relatively accurately off of a beautiful woman.

[@pegah_di]

@@theroseexperience I didn't say she wasn't physically attractive. I said her character wasn't attractive. She kept mopinng and whining her way through adventures without wanting to do so. The old Lara was seeking adventure. She would never say anything like "I hate tombs", because she was fascinated by tombs an archaeology. That alone shows that the new writers don't understand the character of Lara Croft.

[@Veteran_Nerd]

My take: -Make characters the way you want. Make games the way you want. Push any sort of agenda you want. Let the 'free market' decide if that was a good idea. -If you run a business and fail to appeal to customers when those same customers tell you what they want, then that's 100% on you... not the customers. Love that AI intro!

[@ponli7532]

I'm okay with this with new IPs, make whatever trash you want. The problem comes when you have invested maybe thousands of dollars (Star Wars, Warhammer, LOTR) as a true fan, some activist designer/writer comes in and destroys the lore and the models with no respect and real disdain for it's customers, it feels like a gut punch.

[@certainlyJesse]

@@ponli7532 Little advise, dont be a "true fan" to any brand. certainly not billion $$$$ faceless organisations.

[@ponli7532]

​@@certainlyJesse read what I wrote, i didn't say i was a fan of the owners of the IP. Disney/Games workshop/Hasbro or whatever. But I was fan of the original setting including books and games in those settings, I'm fan of the original writers essentially. I find it offensive when writers of considerably less talent destroy the previous work.

[@kieran10202]

Ciri taking the trial of the grasses is a lot to take. Did she really convince Yennefer or Triss to put her through something that would probably kill her just to be like Geralt?

[@Simon0103]

I mean youre kinda ignoring how strong she is tho. She is one of the most powerful mfs in the witcher universe. Honestly think about it, why wouldnt she have a higher chance of successfully going through the trial of grasses than ANY MAN? I think this is gonna be a very interesting game and story, and im so fucking happy to play a full game as Ciri. Very curious what happened to her elder blood aswell, since she didnt use her powers in the cinematic.

[@brennan8504]

What makes you think she took the Trial of Grasses? Thats the Wolf School’s thing, you can literally see her wearing a Lynx pendant in the trailer. Each school has its own trial.

[@blackmanwithcomputer]

She's half elf tho, and we've seen elves take the trial without much issue. That and she's got god blood.

[@GalacticToadGames24]

What makes you think she went to Geralt or Yen for consent? It's not like they've been closely supervising her every move. My guess is there going to write in some kind of narrative sequence where Ciri is forced to undergo the trial for.....Reasons? Yeah I don't really know but I'll be curious to see what they come up with.

[@kieran10202]

@@Simon0103 she's strong with magic and time travel, she gets hurt like everyone else.

[@Draconisrex1]

The problem is what underlies the organizations that do the DEI/girl-boss stuff. They are, generally speaking, low-talent ideologues that have displaced the talented writers and we end up with crappy games, movies, etc.

[@darcrequiem]

I wish I could thumb this up twice. I've had the same sentiment. They lack the talent to produce stories that will succeed on their own merits. So they hijack an existing IP, use it as a vehicle for their story, and cry foul when fans call them out for changing things. Usually calling them whatever pejorative they can hide behind to evade legitimate criticism.

[@UselessFingThing]

We went from having a massive industry trying to figure out what young men would find appealing to a massive industry that goes out of its way to make things as unappealing to young men as possible. This is vastly less fun, and it is entirely the fault of the progressivismist left.

[@steveyoung7957]

Exactly. The girl boss trope is separate from the ugly character models and they are BOTH indicative of an industry that goes out of its way to goad, annoy and exclude the game’s base audience.

[@sevach]

I don't feel the need to add anything else, this sums it up.

[@Ratchies]

Perfectly put. What's so bizarre is that it also appears to be "anti business" in that they'd obviously sell more product if they didn't drive such a large customer base away. I can only assume someone's done the calculations and got the wrong answers, the alternative is they're just being stupidly stubborn.

[@ponli7532]

Appealing to straight men have become a "taboo" in their heads. It's pretty much as anti-consumer as it gets.

[@McDLT999999999999999]

If money isn’t their goal then social engineering is their goal.

[@tadlambert1493]

Concerning the unattractive female protagonist, entertainment to most people is about fantasy not something to be based on reality. Its escapism

[@ErikKain]

@@tadlambert1493 sometimes! But sometimes it's a story about characters with interesting personalities and stories, and it doesn't have to be about beautiful people.

[@tadlambert1493]

@@ErikKainagreed. But they must have those things you described. Was more referring to where they seem to make them unattractive for the sole purpose of making them unattractive “to make it more realistic and inclusive “.

[@blackmanwithcomputer]

​@@tadlambert1493It also depends on the tone and the characterization. Being hot can definitely distract from that. I remember the Black Hat movie that Chris Hemsworth starred in, and the initial discourse around that movie was how out of place Chris looked in that role. Not saying a hacker can't be an Adonis type, but he looked silly regardless. Jordan from Intergalactic looks like a model type, with very distinct facial features. She just has a shaved head, which the trailer clearly points to as having meaning, because the trailer shows her with hair looking very happy right after. Ciri just looks older.

[@gsuandre5579]

@@ErikKain but they give her the man jaw line, and we have proof of the studio guide line to make women look manly, this is not a conspiracy, it is not realistic it is giving her manly features. spider mary jane and horizon and so on, it is manly feature not realistic because both model and character before the remake look like women, and later don't even look like the real model so who it is realistic if it does not look like the real person the game model is base on??? you are coping

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@ErikKain There's this thing that men all over the world, all throughout history, have really liked about women... and it isn't a single "beauty standard"... which are different in different places and times. It's femininity. So what do these people do with their G boss characters? They make them masculine. First, that's insulting to feminine women... Second, it's a deliberate attempt to deprive men of something we enjoy... gotta spit in the eye of the male gaze, you know.

[@jaxsonburch-eo1vz]

If they wanted to make a cool character based off Akira or Cowboy Bebop they should have looked at the females from those animes. Look at Faye Valentine or Caneda’s girl from Akira. Or even another great anime in Ghost in the shell. Motoko Kusanagi is one of the most iconic looking female characters ever made. Instead they created a character that somehow makes a very pretty black woman in real life, look ugly and bald and unappealing. Wow.

[@theknave69]

I think that the reason why I, speaking only for myself, prefer attractive characters to unattractive ones is that if I'm going to spend 30+ hours in a game, I'd rather look st something pleasing to the eye than one who doesn't. But, I do agree that personality in a character goes a long way. I refer to the invasion of any subculture with the intent to change it, e.g. Science Fiction, comic books, video games, etc. as cultural gentrification. The original members built up a community, corporations see success in it, then try to expand it. New people come in for the trappings of the group, not necessarily interested in what brought that group together in the first place, and demand that it changes to suit them. The result is that there is a culture clash, and eventually the original group is demonized and pushed further to the fringes. It has happened multiple times with any subculture. The people are welcoming to any and all, provided that there is a genuine interest and enjoyment of the activity that brings them together. But I digress.

[@firefox6285]

Gentrification implies that the newcomers are 'cleaning up' the dirty parts of the culture, but often this is not the case. Instead, they are imposing their world views on existing IP while, as you said, simultaneously vilifying the fan base who are often very passionate. For example, saying that D&D Drow can't be 'black' because it is racist isn't gentrification to me, it is self-sanctimonious bs by people who don't understand fantasy.

[@nickelsdimes8643]

It's just a double standard in moral policing. If it's a men's spaces, moral policing is enforced heavily but when it comes to women's spaces, it's done with one eye closed. That's why we have uglified women characters in sci fi and fiction that's heavily marketed to men especially in video games and comic books. 🤷‍♂️

[@mithras151]

I think, for me at least, I enjoy characters like DA:O's Morrigan. A strong willed confident female who starts off abrasive, but also one who has a lot of depth and growth over the course of the narrative. She learns to trust, she learns to rely on people, and depending on your choices, she learns to love. Or you track her down as a traitor. Versus what seems to be the new norm where the narrative almost feels designed to reinforced the superiority complex of the Girl Boss. They don't really change or grow or... anything, really. It feels like there's a real dearth of nuance and creativity, and that makes things really sad. Thanks for a good dissection, as usual!

[@johnnii]

One thing about Jordan as well is that the only thing remarkable about her is her shaved head. Her features,outfit and arsenal are so incredibly boring looking. She might as well have been a background NPC. Though one incredibly funny and ironic thing is her energy sword looking like comb.

[@MrDe4dGuy34]

The thing about ugly characters is that they can be made likable with endearing personalities and good stories. However, it's absolute character assassination when you intentionally make the character both ugly and unlikable. There's just nothing to appreciate there.

[@ErikKain]

@@MrDe4dGuy34 exactly

[@kelticowl9400]

Video Game characters looking like their Voice Actors really defeats the advantage that video games had over film, where it's easier to change a main character as it's simply a voice change and not a physical change. Either way, the Intergalactic trailer didn't really speak to me, didn't really convey why I should care about the world or what the game may be. I compared that to the Mass Effect 1 trailer that did make the viewer understand some stake prior to playing.

[@steveyoung7957]

I don’t think that gamers are necessarily advocating for voice actors to become character models in every instance. I think the point is ‘Here you have this very attractive voice model that developers could have simply mo-capped but instead, developers went out of their way to create an ugly female character model.’ AND developers did this just to piss off the game’s core audience. It’s just ONE more piece of evidence that developers hate gamers.

[@Tinyfangs-xyz]

As a female gamer, I too prefer to see aesthetically pleasing women. Not extreme ones, clearly sexualised beyond measure, but you know, 7 or 8, and not for any sexual reason, as I do not swing that way at all, but we are hardwired to recognise what is aesthetically pleasing. I remember I spent 3 days, countless hours, deleting and remaking my female character in Skyrim (before all the mods), as it was really difficult to get a feminine character going. Eventually I succeeded, and my back then bf was like 'how on earth did you manage that?!' :P It was worth it for me, I wanted my character to be feminine and attractive, and yes, I hate girl bosses, that's so ludicrous, I struggle shifting the dog food bags about (and I need do that a lot with 12 dogs >.>). I can't associate with girl bosses, and as a female, when you met females that are behaving like that, it's totally awful and not friend material.

[@ErikKain]

@@Tinyfangs-xyz oh God the Skyrim character creator...I gave up on even making a human of either gender lol.

[@Tinyfangs-xyz]

@@ErikKain Ikr! It would look half decent in the creator, then one got into game and it looked horrid. I'd say took me nearly 30 hours of trial and error.. but then I had made probably the prettiest character I ever made in any game o.O It was a challenge for sure, but I was determined 😂

[@Tigerman1998]

Ciri in Witcher 4 still looks better than Cerys, though. Definitely above average looking. Just finished GTA V and she’s also better looking than all the woman in that game, and they were supposed to be more sexualized. I personally prefer her over Eve in Stellar Blade despite Eve appealing more to most male gamers.

[@ErikKain]

@@Tigerman1998 Eve is just an unrealistic anime woman, sexy in a way that's totally detached from reality. I'd swipe left because there's no way she's real. Ciri is definitely a swipe right in both games.

[@frederickryeland313]

Erik, I get all your points (to be honest I've been following you since 10 years ago when you were at Forbes), but what I don't understand and I don't hear anybody address is, how come these creatives keep going against what's really the market demand with these rude, dull, snarky, repulsive characters. How do they keep getting away with it, it's basically throwing investor millions out the window.

[@ekaf1735]

i think it's not a long time ago they started actually loosing big money because of it. What was the first big project with high budget that flopped really bad? they are probably still on the first stages - denial and anger

[@solicitr666]

The real problem with the girlboss trope is not the "ugly' although I think that this *is* deliberate and is symptomatic of the studio mindset - but that they are nearly all Mary Sues, which is lazy and boring writing. Rey, Galadriel, Captain Marvel, PWB in Dial of Dysentery, on and on and on, these women are always right, they are always smarter than the men, they succeed with ease and have no flaws (well, aside from arrogance and a tendency to hector), they never experience character growth (after all, how do you grow from perfect?). Now, I have not seen this with Ciri. I have rather more of a problem with the idea of a female Witcher, which the lore says is impossible. OTOH, the blood of elves may make this very unique woman capable of surviving the Trial of Grasses.

[@BB-te8tc]

Said arrogance is never met with comeuppance, either. That's a huge part of the problem.

[@MichaelJohnson-vu3bt]

Exactly this. I just got done watch a few videos from the people that's for these characters opinions and all they did is lump everyone that disagree with them into the "you only want jerk off material" and completely ignore the majority of people with valid arguments based off pattern recognition. And they wonder why they're the minority in thought spaces

[@KatallinaVT]

It's because they don't actually listen, think, and then speak. Imagine that.

[@tabletoplegless3516]

I don't know who Intergalactic is supposed to cater to. Definitely not to me as woman. I love my hair and just generally a good looking toon to play hours with. And she looks too damned clean to be a mercenary. Not a single scar in sight. Meaning, they're portrying someone who does not take hits. I think Ciri is her exact opposite. She is definitely looking battleworn.

[@Jay-ie9pp]

Dude... do you use hair rollers? Rocking that gay Viking look.

[@CactusJack60]

There is so how much discourse out there about misogyny but no discourse about the simplicity of individuals rather playing as the gender that you are and naturally men play medieval RPGs more than women. People are so irrational.

[@Jammet]

You know, you're talking sense, you are well spoken, and I almost would agree across the board. When you suddenly said that we men need our spaces, men need to have these things too, things shouldn't have their spaces taken away in part. But no -- to men's day. That men wouldn't need activists. Activism on the behalf of men would be bullshit. Throwing them under the bus. You may disagree with a lot coming from that direction, but my thought is that these activists -- or some of their activism anyway -- is increasingly more relevant and helpful each year. No, I don't need a men's day either, but I get why it's there. I guess it's because men are less likely to help each other. To the lengths of dismissal of entire ranges of issues. The "You're a man, you're on your own" tradition, it has never been in the best of our interests. Anyway, I wholeheartedly hear you speaking from my heart on every other concern, and I'm glad there are people around like you, who can do speaking publicly.

[@ErikKain]

@@Jammet I don't like the idea of men's activism but I absolutely love the idea of men's fraternity. Men's groups. Support for men etc.

[@erude13]

Bro, the romance novels example is exactly the example I use when discussing the forced changes on mens spaces.

[@burningdragoon73]

I believe one of the main reasons so many games now have characters that look like their voice actors, besides the obvious marketing reasons with notable actors, is that since it's all mocap it makes the animation rigging easier for the level of detail facial animation gets now. Same reason they hired a guy that would win a young Mark Hamil lookalike contest in the Mandalorian before bolting cgi young Mark Hamil on top of him. But that's kinda more of a sign of chasing the wrong thing than anything truly necessary.

[@alaskacpu]

Once you go down the path that Opinions are wrong or hateful, when everyone has an opinion - then you're placing your own Opinion as worthless Accepting opinions, like it or not - is part of life and we can agree to disagree. Opinions don't need to be mocked or critiqued but accepted just as your own

[@LouisKing-w2m]

Ciri looks perfectly fine, older and grittier as it should since the trailer takes place years after the events of W3. I think you nailed it when saying she probably looks a lot more like the voice actress. It's Ciara Berkeley, and sure enough, new Ciri looks a lot liker her, who is quite attractive. Why not the same with Geralt? Love the voice but zero chance you are going to make a guy with his looks be Geralt. Last thing, folks say: "But Ciri can't go through the trial!" A NORMAL woman would die at the trial. Ciri can cut through space and time, stopped the white frost, has such unique powers that mofos from another planet tried to kidnap her, and trained under Geralt himself for years, to name a few...but she is going to crumble at the trial like the local barmaid? Now that would make far less sense.

[@KillerTofuDrums]

Ciri is the final-boss of girl-bosses. Aaaand You have to remember the setting, Triss and Yen stay beautiful basically forever thanks to their witchcraft and transformation ceremony. If Ciri decided to be a witcher, she would have been living a much harder life as well as drinking potions that take a physical toll, using signs you're not necessarily immune to, drinking, fighting, witcher-ing. All that taken into account, i think she looks pretty damn good. She's got a late 90s Michelle Pfeiffer thing going

[@v1llanous972]

The Ciri in the trailer is perfect. She looks exactly how I expected she should. I'm not seeing how they changed her besides aging, they did plump up them lips....... got some DSLs now. Actually she's kind of a Mommy low key. Very attractive! I hope they don't change her. I completely buy that she is a badass but still a woman and she has to work for it, that she earned it. This is based on the "feel" of the trailer. I just don't want the girl boss shit. I still have hope though that CDPR won't fuck us on this, that it'll all make sense ( trail of the grasses ) and it'll all come out in the wash.

[@NoctLightCloud]

every one of us could easily come up with at least 3 better looking designs for Jordan

[@Elkendrien]

I don't think video games are exclusively a space for men. Overall, the majority in gaming are certainly men, but there are tons of women who enjoy it too, myself included. That being said, ofc I prefer looking at beautiful people. Video games are a fantasy and that's fine. I just don't like it if the characters are over sexualised (which as you said often happens in asian games). In a certain korean mmo I am playing atm the women always wear little heels -wtf that's not even hot that's just silly. Even with full body armour. I like women just fine, but I made my main male so I can fight without heels haha.

[@noctoi]

Totally agree with pretty much all of this. Re romance covers etc. there HAS been a movement recently to be more inclusive, but yeah... The call is to include 'bear' bodies and 'dad bods' and leaner, less overtly muscled bodies but they are ALWAYS "hot". It's something I've been thinking about lately with all the "woke/anti-woke' discourse around games and it's kind of hypocritical. Regarding games, this is kind of why I prefer custom protagonists, even if they have a pre-set personality (like with Shepard from ME) I always think more choice is the way to go. I like to make hot female protags, I like to make butch less conventionally attractive protags, I like to make male protags, and what I consider "attractive" isn't what other people consider attractive. Choice is always better... Except with Geralt, because he's S tier and must be protected lol. In general though, I don't care about the looks of the character as much as gameplay and story. Even if I don't like the look of the character, I have to be able to 'vibe' with the character's personality. I'm not a raging asshole, so I can't deal with playing a raging asshole. Actually, the one exception for me was Icarus, because despite being curious about that game GOD DAMN every character model for both genders were HORRIFYING. I mean, I'm fine with rugged, but even *I* have a line 👀😬🤣

[@bugeater16]

Attractiveness, either for male or female protagonists, is an important issue for a game. For several reasons, but all related to human nature. Humans associate attractiveness with positive traits. Just like height is an important ranking trait in men. There is a reason why CEOs typically are fairly attractive and often tall. This is less important for tech CEOs, probably because knowledge is more important in that field. But a typical CEO of a run-of-the-mill sales oriented company is tall and handsome. Female CEOs are also often attractive or at least try to look as attractive as posisble. The trope of the dumb blonde is funny, because it misunderstands the reason why there were so many prominent blondes in the past. And off course we want to be like the protagonists in the games, and who wants to be an ugly short person. Men like to play as attractive women just as much as women. Not to jerk of to them (themselves?), but because it makes them feel desirable.

[@Ratchies]

I'm loving the intro song, nicely done.

[@ErikKain]

@@Ratchies worked hard on this one to get it right!

[@brosky8744]

Most if not all male protagonists are attractive. The only modern example I’ve seen that the male protagonist isn’t is in kingdom come deliverance so to have so many examples of female protagonists that are unappealing lately is bizarre

[@DVX_BELLORVM]

To reference your last video, if this was 10-15 years ago, I probably would have shrugged over Ciri's new look and chalked it up to changing technology. It's different in the context of 2024. I'm not going to say that the new Ciri is 'ugly,' but they gave her the telltale Bruce Campbell jawline. Combine that with her losing her unique powers to become a reskinned Geralt and the messaging intent behind these changes comes into focus.

[@camodeano3003]

1:57 …They’ve changed the way Geralt looked from trailer to trailer. He looks nothing like how he did in Witcher 1. Even in Tekken they overhauled character designs. That happens when a series hasn’t had a new entry in over a decade

[@NeroBurningRome]

More to your point on the different type of protagonists, as you pointed out the grizzled, silent type protagonist is a blank canvas its much easier to project yourself onto that and even if you dont the worst case scenario is they become bland or inoffensive. The girl boss on the other hand as you pointed out is always followed with being smarmy, cocky, dismissive, know it all, etc... between a character thats bland and one thats annoying, people will always dislike the more annoying one. I have said this before and i will say it again you can have a character that commits genocide, enslave others or commits various other atrocities and they can still be very popular Darth Vader, Loki(from first Avengers movie), Joker, etc... But the worst kind of character you can have in any medium is not the one that commits genocide or blows up a planet with people on it, its the one that annoys the audience, doesnt even do anything bad to any of the characters in their respective story but annoys you the viewer personally. Which is why characters like Ripley, Sarah Connor, Dana Scully, Buffy,, Rita Vrataski etc... have stood the test of time despite being "strong" female characters, they were never made to be annoying like so many of the female characters in modern shows and games. One of the strongest and best female protagonists in recent memories is Evelyn from Everything everywhere all at once and no one has yet to figure out why or how that is, despite the formula for it staring them right in the face. Make more Evelyns or any female character from a Mike Flanagan show, Mizu from Blue Eye Samurai, ec... and less characters from DA Veilguard or Forspoken or that awful Saints Row game that killed the whole studio.

[@duke_revna6404]

I think I've seen the trope of preachy boss girl the first time in the movie Last Jedi and from on there .. the most uproar was with TLOU2. The worst problem was the studio treating people and content creators who were talking about the game. Putting out content claims left and right. For now I think I can see CDPR creating something compelling while I don't see Naughty Dog doing the same.

[@shinian6523]

I said something like this on your last vid. They want to 'avert the male gaze' or some say they want to appeal to trans players. not sure how that would work, but moving on. The problem with it is they are taking away choice. Its not that they want to play ugly female characters, they dont think women want to play ugly female characters. They want to force us to want that.

[@These_Old_Engines]

I think the issue most players have with the ugly character problem is that its so unnecessary. Star Wars outlaws is a great example, male characters...look fine, look like the people they motion capped off of. Aliens even look like their Mo Capped counterparts....... but the female lead? looks so far from their origin that It has to be on purpose. While the girlboss trope is more smearing the "lesson" in players face no matter how out of place it is in the story or game. Please see Sarah in starfield that was so in charge to both agreed and disagreed with everything at all times.

[@CarlWheatley-wi2cl]

The jury is still out on W4 and will be for some years yet probably. I don't have any problem playing as Ciri, I don't have much of a problem with the way she looks although I agree it's a little strange. It will ALL rest on how good the game is. W3 was the end of Geralts story, we've known this for years but are they simply going to make Ciri a Geralt clone? I really don't think that's going to fly with a huge chunk of the fanbase. These are NOT the same people at CDPR that wrote, designed W3, that worries me but we'll just have to wait for more details. Ps: Erik, that dude sweater is really pulling the room together.

[@olympicpip9235]

Most people if given a choice will play as an idealized version of themselves. Thats not to say that's what EVERYONE wants, and there is room for conventionally non-attractive characters. But for the majority, males will choose a tall muscular version of themselves, women will play a fit, prettier, slender version of themselves. Thats just reality. And to pretend that's not reality and attempt to socially engineer a new preference for playing as none of those things typically doesnt sell well. Simple as.

[@ambrusin4889]

This is the first video that I saw that said the same thing that I noticed, that they did not make Siri uglier: they made her look like a whole different person, and I just don`t understand the reason, like why, there was no need to do it. Siri, the original looked just fine. There is no need to change the model to "look" like a certain voice, or their nature, because there is no certain looks for a certain voice, it is a weird, almost a childish way to think. Now it just does not feel like a same Siri, not for me, for a lot of us fans. It is not the same, not anymore, it is just sad, because I liked the original Siri.

[@rngkushner]

"Ugly Women" sounds like a lost Warren Zevon track!

[@ErikKain]

@@rngkushner ha it totally does

[@Suriel08]

I'd totally date the new Ciri. I think she looks interesting and interesting is often better than just plain beautiful. And every time we'd be in a fancy restaurant, I'd beg her to do the cats eyes Witcher trick, when the waiter brings the desserts menu.

[@eestiny9734]

cd projekt is smart enough to make subtile change. I don't mind the look. I do mind the change in the lore. Intergalactic mc seems very immature, that is no girl boss! It is more about the attitude, Jack from Mass Effect is a perfect exemple!

[@KatallinaVT]

The thing to remember is that Jack was a side side character. She was not carrying a game on her shoulders. She was part of a cast. Having more abrasive, morally sketchy characters as secondary characters has happened for ages. But they don't "save the cat" which makes them harder to sell as a lead.

[@rulingstone123]

I'd agree if the same was said about male characters as well. Since I could remember the male characters in video games were usually haggard, sexually unattractive and old compared to the female ones. To me who is used to that sort of thing, the "uglification" of female characters just look average... or human to me? And its weird because the number of female gamers is growing and it benefits companies to appeal to both genders. I would say that making characters more realistic is largely why they look less appealing.

[@frederickryeland313]

Sarcasm is not humor, and vulgarity is not wit, as one great writer said

[@Forrestern]

"If I'm gonna play a woman for 2000 hours I want her to be attractive" is the sentiment I see regarding Ciri's new look. Which I get. Especially if you are a dude who prefers playing as a dude in a game. Wel if the protagonist is a female, she can at least be super attractive. I think this is where a lot of this complaint is coming from aside from the DEI fears.

[@Str8upWizardCJ]

The trailer just looked bad she didn't have the same face structure in the last game and people who say she's aged doesn't know what age does to the face.

[@KleinKore]

Thanks again for your words

[@kieran10202]

Ciri still looks better than average, but not gorgeous like in witcher 3. Remember she's part elf, and this is therefore normal.

[@TheLouHam]

She looks like an older Polish woman, so I don't know why people should expect her to look any differently.

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

@@TheLouHam well for one - she's not Polish. Not even real my dude. What a room temperature IQ take.

[@ponli7532]

Some people have become hypersensitive, she's not in her 20ties anymore, she's fine. I think it's a misguided anger to yet ANOTHER girlboss character protagonist. People have gotten sick of it.

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

People who praise, gaslight unatractive charachers like Baldy form Intergalactic are mostly just trying to stick it up to the male (and some of the female) fans and it shows. Like in that graphic on X where Ciri and Baldy are drinking men fragility tears and showing us the middle finger. Ironically enough the artist drew Ciri as better (!) looking (as her previous self) than she is in the trailer. Proving that literally no one likes a downgrade. Common self own by a progressive lefty.

[@ekaf1735]

I don't see what's a problem in characters looking like actors who voice them. If it's a new character and there is no particular difference in how they look why not look like an actor? On other points agree

[@jeromeroark4637]

Shes elder blood just like the Witcher she can live hundreds of years and people are just sick of girl boss games no masculinity and women cant be Witchers she was to old to survive the trials

[@Icipher353]

I just don't understand the obsession with "realism", "grounded", "reality", "representation" and whatever other buzzwords you can think of. I don't want any of that stuff in my videogames. I want escapism. I want fun. I want over the top adventures featuring impossibly attractive characters doing impossibly cool things! If I wanted realism, I'd go outside. Also, I'm really bummed that they have replaced Jo Wyatt as the voice of Ciri. She was so good in Witcher 3 (and Dragon Age 2).

[@willy_b_coyote]

Witcher 4 Ciri isn’t even that ugly. At worst, she looks visibly older.

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

Botox face, it's not normal

[@justinrisen1929]

The industry is a woke propaganda machine and as a 30+ year gamer it sickens me. I dont feel like Ciri looks ugly at all in that trailer. I think she looks great and still stunning yet more visceral. Not at all ugly. Im hyped for W4. Intergallactic i will wait to see the game first before i jump. Interesting premise but that protagonist doesnt really do it for me so far.

[@DdHenley307]

I never finished Last of Us 2. Almost everything with Abby was unenjoyable and once it got to the theater with Abby hunting Ellie I stopped playing. I get what they were going for but you need more than a dead loved one for people to like you. Her personality sucked and turning her into a man didn't help either. Developers overestimated their writing ability

[@VampireNoblesse]

good comparison with female romance novels..

[@darthsidious4274]

Witcher 4 might still be great, but I totally understand how people are over the strong female lead.

[@bentinbama1]

No....ciri in the witcher 4 is objectively less attractive than she was in the 3rd game. Anyone saying otherwise is trying to gaslite me and I will call you out everytime. These woke types are fundamentally manipulative ppl

[@Simon0103]

Idk i think getting mad over the look of a character from a cinematic trailer is silly. Its not how Ciri gonna look in game, we know that bcs of previous cinematics where Geralt looks WAYYY different than how he does in the games.

[@JawadBhuiyan]

Ciri doesn't look that different and looks, as you said, older and grizzled imho

[@FTNS-ju9gz]

The Silent Hill 2 drama was dumb af. Just about everything else is justified, though

[@cahill22]

Heard an unorthodox theory that female characters in western games are purposefully made more masculine/less feminine (MJ from Spiderman 2 being the most egregious example I can think of) as to not offend trans women as most don't pass all that well.

[@nicechock]

nothing to do with it. its another kind of depopuiulation agehnda. make men despise women and women infatuate themselves with ideas of independent woman who emotionally lashes out and displays "power". This will reduce overall reproduction. all the other measures are for same reason that you see in the world.

[@nicechock]

nothing to do with it. its another kind of depopuiulation agehnda. make men despise women and women infatuate themselves with ideas of independent woman who emotionally lashes out and displays "power". This will reduce overall reproduction. all the other measures are for same reason that you see in the world. nothing to do with it. its another kind of depopuiulation agehnda. make men despise women and women infatuate themselves with ideas of independent woman who emotionally lashes out and displays "power". This will reduce overall reproduction. all the other measures are for same reason that you see in the world.

[@nicechock]

nothing to do with it. its another kind of depopuiulation agehnda. make men despise women and women infatuate themselves with ideas of independent woman who emotionally lashes out and displays "power". This will reduce overall reproduction. all the other measures are for same reason that you see in the world.

[@nicechock]

nothing to do with it. its another kind of depopuiulation agehnda. make men despise women and women infatuate themselves with ideas of independent woman who emotionally lashes out and displays "power". This will reduce overall reproduction. all the other measures are for same reason that you see in the world.

[@guser7137]

A very vocal and tiny group of people with genuine mental health issues dictating to the rest of us what are acceptable norms. Everyone outside of Reddit is getting pretty tired of it.

[@Conorkc86]

Video game crash incoming, I think it has already started

[@tahnadana5435]

attractive actors are overrated, henry cavill, all his movies bomb every single f'n time, no woke bs but fan gaslighting all the time on his part, also doesn't work

[@FANG3D]

I just think there is not enough info to go off of to decide that she is a “girlboss” character just based on a 1 minute scene of snarkiness. Also I think people are putting too much stock into how pretty characters look rather than performance. I mean some of the greatest shows focus on not typically attractive characters like breaking bad, sopranos, the penguin, etc. if you want pretty faces then watch a CW show, but if you want a good show you gotta look at stuff beyond superficial beauty

[@grapenutcom]

Making ugly lesbian leads at this point is virtue signaling by the producers and the studio (Naughtydog) to Hollywood so they will make a movie out of it. Game studios are turning into movie and tv factories as that is the current trend now. The sadder part is that Naughtydogs ideas aren't even unique as they said they ripped off Akira for the concept. And studios always 'remodel' old characters when they start new games. Ciri's final version may change from the trailer.

[@PxNxWxGxW]

Ciri grew up, get over it.

[@CarlosGarcía-d3d]

haha sick song

[@blackmanwithcomputer]

I don't understand why people are just assuming the type of character that Jordan will be, based on an out of context cutscene. In the trailer, the little context we have is that she clearly has a vendetta against the people she's searching for. Look at all the clippings and her circling people's faces. There's a photo that shows her with hair, so her shaving it clearly has purpose; maybe tied to a trauma. It's especially funny considering you used Joel and Ellie as examples, when you know everything about those characters....and they were written and created by the same person writing Jordan. There's simply not enough to go on to assume that Jordan is a smarmy girlboss. This is also inspired by Cowboy Bebop....Faye and Spike are both arrogant, smartasses on the surface. We didn't have any issues with them. Especially after learned more about them.

[@RH1812]

The insanity is most of the time the player is looking at the back of the character. Even when you ‘create’ a character eg from or even Project Red…back of the head, or first person! It becomes irrelevant

[@ErikKain]

@@RH1812 yep, though a lot of cutscenes do show the characters a bunch.

[@RH1812]

@@ErikKaintrue, but still a minimal % of game time. I’m playing The Great Circle… I am HARRISON FORD! when not in a cut scene 😂

[@masterpainter78]

OMG, Im nine minutes into this thing, you really dont understand how much of a trainwreck this move was to change Ciri's look there is no talking their way out of this.

[@natese8406]

Uglified. Masculinized. Breaks canon. All signs of toxic progressive storytelling. It's a no buy.

[@Brutalhonesty11]

Unhinged NPC here.

[@masterpainter78]

Disagree, Ciri's look is her iconic brand. Just spend time looking for Ciri mods and Ciri pictures, it is way too late in the game for CDPR to change the look of this character in significant ways and expect no blowback. It would be like changing out an actor completely from a popular franchise, although I am sure someone will bring up Dr. Who, that does have a lore reason for being that way. Think more along the lines of changing out a popular actress from a television show and then you not only do that but you decide in the new season that will be entirely about her you place a less attractive looking actress, bad move.

[@juanz888]

Ciri is a "Mage" all mages in the games series look beautiful and are very old

[@goshoko8835]

As a witcher fan - that is such a delusional take. Mages in witcher universe are beatiful because they went through shitloads of magical plastic surgeries. Ciri didn't. And no, it's not all mages. Only mages from the north. Nilfgardian mages are "natural" since the empire has got much more restrictive attitude towards mages.

[@KillerTofuDrums]

​​@@goshoko8835yup! She didn't go through their beautification ceremony cause she didnt go to Aretuza where Yen and Triss got their looks. She took the road of the Witcher. A harder life. She's a transcendent being but her power isn't used for politics like the other sorcerer's. I think she's a badass protag

[@McDLT999999999999999]

If I’m playing a video game I want to play as a man, preferably a white man. Representation is very important to me and that represents me best.

[@Frozenkex]

There are a lot of romance stories with Beauty and Beast trope, or the male character not being a human at all, like Ancient Magus bride. So... not true. There is popular media where protagonist isnt meant to be seen as attractive like Psycho Pass. You dont seem to consider artistic reasons at all and just make generalizations. I'm also not sure what you want a female protagonist to act like, you should've used some examples. I think Ciri actually looks too attractive, almost like she was enhanced according to traditional western beauty standards (hollywood), but gamer boys are exposed to asian beauty standards and anime a lot, so they are a little out of touch. In your compilation definitely least attractive is SW outlaws character, and no her appearance isnt based on the actress. The others are fine. I dont see how Silent HIll 2 would be improved if she was "prettier", it's almost like you're not supposed to find her attractive.

[@ichigen511]

I don't see the problem. There are PLENTY of hot video game characters. Japan and Korea got your incel backs! Don't worry guys!

[@vegassims7]

It really doesn't even look like Ciri. She is not that much older either.

[@howtube6635]

that is trans Geralt not ciri

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

Ciri Sue 💀

[@MrBenaire]

Ciri does look uglier but more then that she looks off. She looks like the first sonic the hedgehog trailer. To me she just doesnt look right.

[@NocturnalNick]

options -> not interested options -> do not recommend channel

[@smellthensing2221]

Ciri looks quite ugly now, I'm afraid.