Why are some countries banning surrogacy? - The Global Story podcast, BBC World Service

[@BBCWorldService]

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[@paranoah8550]

Anything that a person does to meet their daily needs, something they wouldn't do if they had other options, is exploitative. Even if it looks like it is done by "choice" in the moment. Gay couples should absolutely be allowed to adopt children without being discriminated against. But surrogacy is definitely a grey area for both gay and straight couples. I saw this documentary about a 60+ woman who got an egg donor and got her menopause reversed to have a baby even though there is a chance she might pass away before the kid becomes an adult. Adult humans at some point need to accept that they can't always get everything they desire and that is sad, but we need to come to terms with it

[@Yindonn]

Same goes with sex trade.

[@paranoah8550]

@heatherzhang6120 I agree. If it not chosen happily over other equal paying options, it not truly a choice

[@rachelzeng2896]

Poor women do not have choices. In developing countries they’re even forced by their husbands, sons and even fathers.It’s condescending to say they can choose not to do this.

[@MischievousMischief]

It is just too bad that in our day and age, people from developed countries got accustomed to attain everything through money.

[@TheAwesomeCookielord]

^^ it's disgusting and exploitative ​@MischievousMischief

[@FernandaSantos-jk6jl]

I was a surrogate and although I had a great experience and I am still in contact with the father I would not recommend it. The fertility treatment was tough and the delivery of a baby is always a risk where you gamble with your life, besides the toll that a pregnancy has on someone’s body. But of course, I was blind to all of that because I needed the money. It is exploitative to the parents who want to have a baby too. This is a billion dollar industry.

[@sofiamunozalonzo]

Thanks for sharing your story.

[@MrSvenovitch]

it's interesting how you don't mention how exploitative it is to the baby, who like you, never asked to come into existence in the first place. I cannot wish your callous kind any good things between now and your inevitable demise. Think of this comment with every hardship you still encounter in life you awful being.

[@helenheath8650]

What about the rights of the child? The father in the Thai situation she mentioned had a history of child sexual abuse. Who checks that the parents are suitable, as happens with adoptive parents? What protections are in place to stop children being birthed to order for traffickers?

[@eliannahankin2971]

Nothing. Once those babies are handed over, no one knows their fate. Also, pregnancy is very risky. Fertility treatments are linked to cancer and if used too often will cause infertility. Surrogacy is unnatural if the women has to take bunch of fertility drugs and then carry an incredibly high risk pregnancy. IVF is dangerous because you have to take fertility shots and over stimulate the ovaries to extract eggs. Ovarian hyper stimulation is a negative outcome of ivf and cancer

[@Recedes7482]

Is anyone preventing a man or woman with bad history from getting married or having a child in the natural way? So, why is this parent history checking done only for surrogacy? Is there any rule that criminals cannot get married?

[@asbisi]

A 60 year old Danish gay man has three kids by an American surrogacy mother. He had four, but one twin girl tragically died. He does keep contact with the mother - which I think is a very good thing. But I wonder how his kids will feel when they are older. Their mother has had a child of her own, and the man and his kids went to visit to see the new "sibling". Won´t the kids later in life have questions like: why did our mother sell us, why didn´t she keep us like our little brother?' They will have to accept that they are simply a commodity. I don´t think you should be able to do this, children are not pets, they are little human beings.

[@coolbreeze5683]

I'm not for surrogacy, IVF, or anything where technology has to intervene with conceiving. Everyone has their own thoughts and feelings about it but I'm more for adoption over those methods. It's about the child and helping them grow and feel supported. It's not about wanting something for selfish reasons, like why many people want kids. They want something to love them, or to complete them or to take care of them when they get old. Of course that can apply to when parents have kids through natural conception but there's a darker element to it when there's a "procurement" process involved like "shopping for surrogates, shopping for IVF, shopping for sperm", etc. With adoption, some can see it as a similar process but the intention to me seems very different. Those who look to adopt are more apt to want well-being for the child. To improve the child's life and not create a human being for completely selfish reasons.

[@asbisi]

@@coolbreeze5683 It´s complicated, for sure. I agree with you to an extent, your post is very heart-felt, I appreciate that. I think couples should have the possibility of getting help having a baby. Not so sure how I feel about sperm and egg donation. I think, as far as possible, a child should be able to trace his or her origins. So, in any case, no anonymous donations. But I am very much against surrogacy where the child is a commodity.

[@jerseygirl1748]

@@coolbreeze5683 If you have a genetic condition which doesn't allow you to carry a child but you can screen and have a surrogate, why be deprived of that. I have a family member who did that and they are fantastic loving parents and the child is happy and well-cared for. It was enough to live with an unfortunate genetic condition but why then the heartbreak of not being able to carry the child and perhaps having no children. The genetic condition does not prevent her from being a good parent by the way.

[@LesliePajuelo]

Probably they'll have a lot in common with kids whose dads left and whose dads have multiple children by multiple women. How do you suggest societies prevent that from happening? Or are you only concerned bc it's a woman who isn't raising her children.

[@noellefritz5678]

She didn’t sell them, he bought them

[@agnediciuniene9861]

If prostitution, drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) are legal, I don't see why surrogacy shouldn't be. The former ones are also harming human body. Psychoactive substances are addictive, limiting humans ability to stop using them and we still allow them to be legal. Despite their effects on body and mind. Surrogacy is less risky for sure. And not addictive. Yes, it might ve not completely ethical at times. But so is oil industry, alcohol and other drug industry, single use plastics etc.

[@rabiariaz2112]

Because there a child involved in surrogacy who is not making any choices and is being harmed.

[@lauraweaver91]

Prostitution is illegal in many countries precisely because it is exploitative. In surrogacy, there is an additional person involved that is being harmed - the child.

[@porcelaingk530]

As in other similar pieces on surrogacy there isn't enough analysis about what it means to be a child from such a "mechanism"...Not everything should be allowed just because of one's wants

[@anamartins4918]

I am loving these videos, Lucy Hockings is an impiration and is always bringing these other amazing women Sofia Bettiza and Stephanie Hegarty awesome!!

[@revathibacsa]

We had this discussion about organ donation. Difficult decisions already with two people involved. Now we have a third party which is the child. It is hard enough raising your own but one born out of one man and two women is really quite challenging.

[@MinkySnoot-nl3ts]

Block people who want kids from having kids,and praise people who are not interested in giving kids a good life. Religion should never be allowed to interfere with making laws,their interests are biased and most of time lack rationality.

[@pediatrozodovna]

This is such a profound and emotional topic. Surrogate mothers play an incredible role in helping families fulfill their dreams of having children. It’s inspiring to see the strength and generosity it takes to embark on this journey. THANK YOU FOR SHEDDING LIGHT ON THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC

[@aeolia80]

Well, surrogacy is illegal here in France, and I understand why, but it does suck a bit for gay couples and infertile couples that would like to go that route

[@lolah3838]

They can adopt

[@SandraMunoz-r1h]

Women matter just like gay couples and infertile couples. Renting a woman to buy a baby is ethically wrong both for the woman and the baby. I can't believe we have to discuss this....

[@ommanomnom]

It sucks for them yes. But it sucks way more for children who are born with no say in this at all. I believe it's for the greater good to generally forbid it for the children. But on the other hand, illegalisation is also very unfair on children. It's just not fair and it's one of the most difficult debates of the 21st century

[@cheetavontiebolt9971]

Very ​@@lolah3838 very hard not the same

[@gemmacrawford-portfoliowork]

@@lolah3838such a stupid comment. There are way more couples wanting to adopt than children who are up for adoption. In addition to that, many countries make adoption nearly impossible. In my country you can’t adopt within the country and there are only a handful of countries we’re allowed to adopt from. Once you look at the process it quickly becomes clear that the chance of overseas adoption is next to impossible as well.

[@celinebally]

It.s a thing to want children. It’s another to raise them. Babies are babies for a very short time. What to do to make them become functional adults is KEY. We don’t need more egotistical, selfish, self absorb people. We need parents to show them the right way, who set boundaries, hence teach that a little bit of frustration isn’t that bad. I don’t care if they’re gay or straight. I need them to be parents and do the hard work. Accept the burden and the responsabilities. Wanting a baby at all cost, for thé sake of it, without thinking this through is careless and should be addressed as the chore issue.

[@MarinaFaGo]

And what about the implications for those babies? We talk a lot about the right to have a family for gay couples and bla bla bla but what about the implications for those babies that are separated from their mothers at birth? Nobody ever thinks about the rights of those children… and they will grow and ask why their mother sold them to somebody else. It is simply not right

[@FarooqAhmad-en1so]

Very informative. A very sensitive subject.

[@KirenKK-te7pb]

Longterm genetic mismatch and hormonal imbalances cannot be ruled out. There is a need to monitor every case of surrogate birth specific to surrogate " mothers".

[@ElsBels25]

DEFO should NOT be money involved! It is a form of colonialism and class based too, something that if you have money you pay and easy to exploit women in countries where there are not strong laws! People in the USA do it privately though and via online chatrooms and pay someone cash, I have seen a documentary about it, so that is not good! Some women also take the money and have the baby and keep the baby!

[@ElsBels25]

@DolfKerr-n5l i just mean about paying money to people in "developing" countries if it is illegal in own country

[@angelicapicklespickles8845]

claramente es explotacion, interesante como las mujeres que se prestan para esto son en su mayoria de paises de tercer mundo, lo cual claramente la decision esta acompañada de su nivel economico mas no por su real deseo de ayudar, estos procesos cuando son entre los mismos familiares si son actos de amor pero cuando son por parte de desconocidos y bajo contrato economico es pura y mera mercancia y explotacion.

[@miss1of2]

I think describing what happened in India with surrogacies as "a few bad experiences" is kind of dishonest... The stories are absolutely horrific...

[@Wendellis]

why its easy in US? because its business, and they allow anything that fuels corporate

[@jessicayoung9670]

They are taking something beautiful and making it dark. I can understand banning making it a money transaction, only medical expenses.

[@elishevak.8637]

You didn't mention the mental health of the children born by surrogacy. How does a child feel knowing the amount of money spent to make that child exist. What about never having a mother. As a woman and a mother I feel this is awful , reducing men and women to sperm carriers/ egg donors/ womb owners.

[@Ilovechenzenrig]

Children themselves are already expensive to raise has is tho

[@jmh4751]

"My mom died in child's labour with my little brother I ask god why you did this to me! , my mom 😢 I never got an answer yes I have mental break downs I cried for months and was heartbroken to this day I was the one to raise my Little brother without any female influence around, I ask him do miss your mom he said "I can't Long for someone I'm not use to"

[@jerseygirl1748]

It's a total misunderstanding of the point of most surrogocies. The parents want nothing more than to have a child-it's even more loved and appreciated.

[@miss1of2]

​@@jerseygirl1748 the same was said about people doing international adoption and IVF And yet there are stories from the children themselves talking about how their parents weren't the greatest parents in the world. Paying for something brings a level of entitlement to it that can really screw up the relationship. And that's without mentioning how the intended parents can feel like they have a level of control over the surrogate's body during pregnancy and childbirth. Hell, no to that! People need to learn that money can't solve everything, that life is sadly unfair and you can't get everything you want.

[@jerseygirl1748]

@ You are just finding the exceptions-there are children who are conceived naturally to parents who don't want them, or treat them badly or the parents are just bad. It's not true that having IVF means that the relationship is worse. It's the opposite because the children are so wanted. Your logic is faulty, but that's just my opinion-from my experience with couples who have had IVF and /or surrogacy.

[@BroccoliAndCheese01]

There’s also the aspect of a woman’s right to choose whether she wants to be a surrogate. In Canada we have a situation where women are being taken advantage of emotionally, but are not being compensated for their work. I wanted to be a surrogate, but it doesn’t make sense for me to undergo a physically tasking year when my own family isn’t benefiting from it.

[@lauraweaver91]

This is where the argument that surrogates give a beautiful gift, etc, falls apart. Make payment for surrogacy illegal and see how many women still choose to do this.

[@RealSalica]

Nobody is talking about the woman who carry the child , there are no ways to control what she eat ,drinks , take drugs .......for me it is the well being of the baby that doesn't seem to be looked at .... but that is my view after seeing babies born with drug and alcohol addiction , going through withdrawals ....

[@SandraMunoz-r1h]

or what about her actual life?? unease for 9 months, risks to their life even, mental health after giving a baby away.... women are not a "vehicle" they are humans with human rights too... your post shows how inhumane society has become

[@jerseygirl1748]

But that can be true for any pregnant woman. In reality, the opposite is true. Surrogates are often contractually obligated not to partake in behavior which could harm the fetus. Any other pregnant woman can drink take drugs,etc as well.

[@LenaMellow]

Excellent reporting.

[@khanhsimon8768]

so meaningful and usefull

[@TajimaMunenori]

There's an unnatural hatred of babies going on right now.

[@izazkhan9027]

Exploitation and capitalism go hand in hand. It’s indeed exploitative and a form of slavery.

[@samhadlington7076]

The Italian government isn't far right 🤦‍♂️

[@jamesbishop9156]

Who is the Italian government to block women from having babies for others?

[@giulianorivieri2806]

It's BBC....come on!

[@iryna5644]

In Ukraine it’s legal. Helps the women to earn money

[@ankra12]

Thats awful.

[@iryna5644]

@ why?

[@ankra12]

@@iryna5644 Because a pregnancy its not like «a walk in the park». Women shouldent have to resort to that to earn money. A pregnancy can be the most dangerous thing a woman do and affects the body in so many ways. The worst is perhaps that poor women might be exploited.

[@noellefritz5678]

It’s not a choice though. Would they do it if they weren’t paid? Money is unfortunately important in this world

[@iryna5644]

@ you can say that about any job

[@geegee_509]

I’m for a lot of things that Italy has been doing lately but this isn’t it. If you can’t have children via surrogacy or adopt, then you are headed towards the demise of your own country. Infertility is on the rise. Italy will find itself where South Korea is and not by choice. Good luck.

[@jorgeaceves2068]

Excellent program from my friend Lucy 🙏🇨🇦

[@muhammetSağlam-d2v]

Dignity of giving birth? I was wondering when people give up considering that having your own child, whether it is a natural way or through surrogacy, is notting to do with "dignity, " or "sacredness", other than....

[@invincible125]

I wonder why!!

[@lowdlb2008]

If they just knew the truth, it's not just about the gay... If they just knew.

[@saudia742]

Hi all Regarding islamic Sharia law, there is a difference between surrogacy care and orphanage care. I encourage all to refer to sources and find out more information from islamic point view Thanks BBC for this podcast

[@carminia824]

Kind of Old Testament. Or The Handmaid's Tale.

[@carminia824]

@DolfKerr-n5l , I mentioned The Handmaid's Tale. What does that say about my position towards both religion and surrogacy?

[@carminia824]

@DolfKerr-n5l , oh. There is support for it in the OT though, I think. At least the story of Rachel and Jacob can be read like that.

[@carminia824]

@ I think it is pretty obvious. Rachel failed to bear children. She was devastated. She begged her husband Jacob to impregnate the handmaid, and the handmaid had to give birth laying on Rachel's lap, so it would be as if it was Rachel's baby. And Rachel was considered the mother. This is as surrogacy as it can get in an agrarian society.

[@clairekorte6048]

How odd that so many are so against surrogacy. If a women is paid and consents it could be a way she can earn money even if she isnt educated or disadvantaged. As long as there are systems in place to ensure that she is paid and treated fairly. Many concerns can be addressed so that it is not coersive and fair to the surrogate woman.

[@rabiariaz2112]

What about the consent of the infant? Or the harm inflicted upon it?

[@afaqahmad1816]

what about the baby mother feed?

[@dkg_gdk]

Exploitative

[@beataplaya]

What's the reason or reasons why people want to have kids? That's what I like to know.

[@lolah3838]

I don't want to know. There isn't any reason they can give that isn't selfish.

[@sunjakehoon2002]

It seems you two also genuinely got emotional/ concerning regarding the matter

[@nakeitafrater3712]

Can it ever be right, morally or legally acceptable to "commission" and "contract" for a baby?

[@cheetavontiebolt9971]

Stop mixing religion with medicine

[@rosatrula]

I agree in general but 'worse than paedophilia'??? That makes me angry because it's not worse than paedophilia in any way. But I would still support a ban because the first person affected is the baby. I think the woman carrying a child should be prepared to be that child's mother. It's sad for people who can't do that, but we'll ALWAYS have adoption, that can't be banned, so parenthood is always possible. I think people should be thinking about the baby first.

[@digestmymind]

Exploitative. No discussion.

[@Lily20574]

That's why it's forbidden in Islam. If someone wants a surrogacy baby, and after the delivery, they don't want to take the baby or abandon the baby for any reason, who will take care of the baby.. In Islam, surrogacy is generally discouraged or forbidden due to potential complications related to lineage, parenting responsibilities, and the welfare of the child. If the commissioning parents abandon the baby for any reason, the child's care and future become uncertain, which can lead to moral, emotional, challenges. Islam emphasize the child's right to know their biological parents. Surrogacy can blur these lines, creating complexities in the child's identity and legal and social responsibilities.

[@rabiariaz2112]

I agree... Surrogacy inflicts the trauma on a woman who carries the child- there are insane amounts of hormones produced during pregnancy that bonds the infant and the pregnant woman together. Likewise, separating the infant from mother inflicts unimaginable trauma on that little being. The infant is used to the voice of the mother, her heartbeat, she is the only being the infant knows and her body produces the breastmilk that helps infant fight infections, diseases etc and to separate this small infant from this woman is such abhorrent practice. And what if the child is raised while not ever having a mother? They long after the love, affection and comfort a mother brings. There is such a thing as 'mother hunger' in humans.

[@ankra12]

Ban it.

[@almavallejocasarin693]

Muy interesante

[@VictoriaMauve]

Explotation.

[@jamesbishop9156]

A WOMAN can do whatever she wants. It is her body, her choice. ❤

[@rosykatzCATS]

Move there & see

[@jamesbishop9156]

@rosykatzCATS This universe is a deception of violence, death, and destruction. I have no religions nor follow any cults or magic crafts. I simply know our Creatress who knows me and follows the golden rule. I fight for freedom of all beings. AWOMAN. Let it be received...

[@4651adri]

It's not. She has to do what the contract says. She then becomes nothing more than an object.

[@jamesbishop9156]

@4651adri She is free to choose to sign a contract......

[@viviennewongtang1331]

She can do whatever she wants to herself, but not to the baby.

[@jamesbishop9156]

It is better than giving a baby up to an orphanage. Adoption has always been a good option. I see nothing wrong with women freely choosing to give the gift of life to another....❤❤❤❤

[@luckydevil1601]

This is not a gift, it's a trade.

[@jamesbishop9156]

@luckydevil1601 Yes, the monetary system screws up the practice of giving and receiving freely from the heart ♥....

[@christian_khsteve]

It’s somewhat understandable for normal couples that couldn’t have baby BUT for gay couples it’s way beyond imagination about how will the babies think & feel when they’re grown up. Sorry to say that but to me it’s just too selfish to do so.

[@Alexthomas-hd4xj]

The kids will be OK what not understandable

[@mr.unknownindian1764]

They want new generations to be dumb and confused enough to be glued to their screens and vote them again and again and again. The reason behind declining trust on democracy across the globe.

[@englishsimple1052]

Interesting news from beautiful lady

[@sunjakehoon2002]

Somethings shouldn't have been discovered. Going against the universal settings always brings the bad consequences

[@cheetavontiebolt9971]

No use technolagy to your advantage

[@Calculus1981]

Am I the only one that thinks we are becoming more crazy 🤣? This is crazy 😧.

[@ljeyaa]

Nice move Italy!👍

[@PossibleBat]

Always exploitative

[@Aroojniazi-uy2zi]

Free Free Palestine ❤️❤️✨

[@giulianorivieri2806]

You're the perfect example of SPAM

[@pragueexpat5106]

Question: surrogacy - exploitative or empowering? Feminists: whichever fits the current narrative.

[@alixgoldring]

No, not for *actual* feminists.

[@Afsanasultanaafi-si7xh]

It's so disturbing to see trading womb . I know some people have to earn their livelihoods for themselves as well as their families but that DOES NOT mean they have to opt prostitution or surrogacy . I am a woman and I DEFINITELY DO NOT stand by the disgusting idea of selling any body part . For these kind of women , real girls and women are facing a lot of troubles world wide. By trading them , they are throwing a big hardship for present and upcoming generation . It is 10000000 times better to die empty stomach than doing these nasty thing.

[@clairekorte6048]

This money could enable them to escape poverty and disadvanatge. Its very easy to say you and your family would rather starve when you have food on the table.

[@jamesbishop9156]

The rights of women IS the objective to make life more wonderful. AWOMAN! Let it be received! TRU DAT! 👍😁💯🩷😎💚