The Good, The Bad, The PT Boats [War Thunder]

[@Billy-I-Am-Not]

I like how Gaijin decided to deal with the OP PG-02 with an *entirely optional* ROF modification

[@danielzaba9913]

It´s that good man. I´m not saying it´s bad, but you need skill to get kills.

[@hrunchtayt1587]

PG-02 gets even more OP with the fact the barrel overheating is a work of fiction to balance it, in reality the PG-02 can fire its entire magazine without its gun jamming because of the fact it’s electrically powered.

[@ThatZenoGuy]

Eh? Rotary cannons absolutely can overheat and have failures. The Vulcan 'can' fire at 6000RPM, but it's sustained rate of fire is lower. Given that most MG's have a sustained rate of fire of around 200RPM, I'd estimate a vulcan's thermal limit is somewhere around 1000-1500 rounds per minute sustained.

[@Panopod]

Feels great to hear and watch this - so much wrong with naval and particularly the coastal trees in particular. Often feels like screaming into a void when you just get "it's naval who cares" or "just don't play xaxaxa"; it's seriously unfun with only a handful of vehicles actually being viable, but it's nevertheless downright depressing to grind out the RP and SL costs of a top tier tank/aircraft (in a vehicle where you have poor earning potential) to earn a vehicle that is another pinata for destroyers or SKRs. No doubt it's to force players to buy the dominating premium ships (LE Orla, M-802, GE for the SKR) and as long as it's making a profit then all is well in gaijin's eyes. Hell, I feel it would take a huge community backlash to get any sort of rework for naval but since it's playerbase is a tiny minority I don't see that happening. As a videogame and certainly to the average player, naval is: unbalanced, unrewarding, unintuitive and most of all unfun. Anyway, disregard the ramblings of this "naval player" ~

[@Sigmagnat650]

It wouldn't be so egregious on the money side if each of the coastal trees had comparably effective coastal premiums. At the very least, each should have a destroyer spawn vessel that's competent and a coastal spawn that's equally capable. Ultimately, three things need to happen to make "coastal great again": 1) Rehash the RP requirements. Given the utility of coastals past 4.3, there really is no need for them to cost as much RP as a Battleship. Right now it's like branching off SPAA into its own tree where you can queue ground battles with just anti-air and expect it to be a viable option for players. 2) If they aren't going to do the crossover research between Bluewater and Coastal-the same way ground trees can research helicopters-then the game modes need to accomodate more spawns. With only 3 spawns, a lot of players just don't have the incentive to pull out a coastal vessel. To the uninitiated, what looks like a potential lost cause can actually be an easy win with a well timed cap rush but most folks just don't see it. So perhaps 3 coastal spawns + 3 bluewater spawns. 3) The map sizes need to expand by at least 20% and caps need to be reconfigured. Have your heavy bluewater, destroyer, and coastal spawns. But add a 4th type for frigates and sub-chases. Move destroyer and heavy bluewater back toward the edges, slight nudge coastals further forward, and then drop the frigate/sub-chaser spawn in between DD and coastal spawn.

[@Yuri-gf6bw]

theres no endgame for PT boats, you unlock frigates that get schacked by DDs 🤡

[@CH3TN1K313]

That's because Frigates should not be facing DDs, and should be part of a "coastal boat/Brown-water navy" game mode. Frigates should be the top of the tree, along with missile armed fast attack craft. They could really do a good Brown-water Naval RB and AB game mode if Gaijin would just invest minimal resources. Stuff like the Chinese Type 22 missile boat would make an awesome end game vehicle. I imagine that Gaijin has thought about this, and their acquisition of Art Storm, the devs of "Modern Warships", are going to bring the next step in naval warfare to War Thunder. In Modern Warships, almost all ships are armed with guided missiles, and even though the game is very arcade focuses, it does have some really good mechanics that War Thunder could adopt. How they deal with both chaff/flare and sonar countermeasures is very good, and could easily make a brown-water naval game mode super interesting. It also gives these smaller boats, when armed with missiles, a chance against their open water counterparts, but that would only need be if Gaijin keeps trying to crowbar the Coastal boats with Open-water ships, in the same game mode. Doing so is just going to bring about insane complications with BR. Ships without chaff/flare or sonar countermeasures would only have their AA to rely on for bringing down cruise missiles, which would help, but then ships with tons of AA would be the only ones who would stand a chance against a missile attack. Gaijin would be forced to change the missiles to be auto guided to the target, and would only allow the player to lock onto an enemy while maintaining line-of-sight, since it's the only fair way to give the opposing player a chance to fight back. This is how Modern Warships handles guided missiles and guided torpedoes, but then again, they don't try and sell the game as being "realistic" while Gaijin does with War Thunder. This means it would cause massive backlash within the community if that path is choses, which is why I think a formal split between Brown-water game modes and Blue-water game modes is the only path forward, yet requires additional expenses by keeping on a team who would take care of Brown-water related development, which if I was Gaijin, I would pass onto Art Storm and their Modern Warships devs, leaving Gaijin's naval devs to focus on Blue-water navy related development.

[@Casual_Player_1]

This is warthunder as a whole. 😂

[@pavleh4602]

The split of the tt was a horrible idea. And I would love more advanced systems in game that would make pt bots and fregats dangerous to bigger ships. Submarines would be great if we had mods like in the test event.

[@nitebones1]

when naval first came out i just loved the pt boat combat, it was really nice fast paced combat, loved the little L3 that was a monster for a reserve ship. what i hate is when they split the tree like sure the trees would have been so long so makes sence, but with the split there is just no point even playing the pt tree any more as RP from them doesnt go to the bluewater fleet as well as being able to start the bluewater right away skipping all the PT boats, it is just a time sink for players which is a shame as there is some really silly ships in there like those german bardges

[@nitebones1]

also with them adding in missile distroyers in WT mobile putting them after even the yamato because they are going to be that strong with their missiles, if they properly bring them to WT where would they put them costal or bluewater as bluewater is just going to be getting longer and longer so costal would be smart as they are smaller ships but then it would need a rework as you would suddenly instant jump in br to get to battleship br from your little pew pew boat

[@kitkatfisher7018]

I love taking a prop up against a Douglas, great fun with the compression you spoke about

[@jyralnadreth4442]

The Douglas currently has a missile it never could, never would have carried. The RIM 24 Tartar required the SPG-51 Fire Control Radar....the Asheville never had this and she actually carried a version of RIM-66 SM-1 (Tartars replacement) the RGM-66D which was an anti-ship missile. The Douglass should have 4 Missiles as the launcher carried 2, There isn't a lot of info on the RGM-66D so while it used the SM-1 SAMs airframe - RGM-66D was a passive Radar homing missile like the AGM-88 HARM and so would only lock onto anything with a radar in operation

[@linussyren9221]

My costal experience is If they have torps I can use them in Bluewater to cap points and win games. Sadly if you play a mine layer and capture all points you get no score after the battle because the anti bot mechanic so now ONLY Torpedo boats are a thing to me. Cap 1-2 points J out and start getting score with Blue water or I will lose that progression for my PT boats. I mostly play the PT-15 in 5.7-7.0 and launch long range torps at 4m depth. Couldn’t find a PT boat match where there wasn’t a OP prem boat nuking everyone else. Or at lower BR no matches what so ever.

[@LastGoatKnight]

Mine is: depth charges and gun boats/sub chasers are easy to kill because they are slower and doesn't have torpedos unlike torpedo boats. And you have no chance against destroyers (At least as a Japanese coastal fleet player (not main))

[@Chrischos]

Best is US Prem Destroyers like USS Mossfett or Gearing with their 8 million secondary gunners that have aimbot about 5 km

[@r0ns0n0l]

What a wonderful Headline for a Video :D Thanks mate, made my day :) im gonna smile the whole day now :)

[@Rosaslav]

Man, just listened to your videos and I have so many things to say:D First of all, I really like your videos, the content, the way you talk about stuff, you sound a bit like combination of Defyn and Cmdr. Tyrael to me:D Good pacing, useful info, straight to the point, funny, all the good stuff. You mentioned you specialize to WT Naval. I don't think, you can do that. Honestly Cmdr. Tyraels approach seems like a way to go. Keep doing WT Naval, thats like the quality stuff that can differentiate you, but you have to mix it up with other stuff here and there. But I am sure you already know this, just wanted to say, don't abandon WT Naval, pls! Regarding content I would like to see and nobody seems to be doing in Naval, is TIER LIST. I know, tier lists are the most spammed thing on youtube and its very cringe, but I really think, that Naval really needs it. And lastly my thoughts on WT Naval from kind of newbie perspective and also reasons for wanting a tier list. (just for some context I played and quit WoWs, because it was too slow and the spread of shells felt terrible) I started Naval with Coastal (why?! unique, seemingly faster paced, starts at 1.0BR), in Japan (Japan be cool) and a few things I noticed. -I have big ass torpedoes and depth charges, that I have no use for. Well, I have put faith in Gaijin, (which in Ground and Air mostly worked out for me) and thought that there is going to be use for them, enabled by game design. I was wrong. And this seems to be a theme even for Bluewater and for WT Naval in general. There are simply ships that look good on paper and are BR placed accordingly, but due to how the gameplay design in Naval is setup, they sometime don't work at all. In my opinion one of the main reasons which causes this massive imbalance and BR compression. - the aiming is massive pain in Coastal for a newbie. In retrospective it works decently for Bluewater and seems to be just ported to Coastal, again something that causes imbalance in a big way, imo. Primary example would be Japanese river boats, on paper they have those big cannons in the front. unfortunately, they are slow af, so you have to fire from distance into stratosphere and wait until next season, before it lands, let alone hits and waves also completely negate it. - cap points take forever to get to and islands are so far apart. so again, some ships are good on paper, but due to them being so slow, they are completely out of place in the tech tree. - it takes forever to go through the tech tree and thats coming from a guy, that has no interest in rushing to top tier and that likes to take its time with each vehicle to spade it and learn how to play it and sort of explore tech trees in general. - later on, when I started Bluewater, I realised its almost impossible to learn what ships I am playing against, due to seeing them mostly as distant foggy silhouettes, so the learning process is way to slow in this regard, which in combination with imbalance is deadly. I am not the type of guy, that consumes a ton of historic stuff, I prefer to learn about it from games like WT, so I don't come with knowledge of various ships already. So with this in mind, why the hell am I asking for Tier list? In ground/air I don't complain about uptiering, br compression and stuff like that ever. But now in Naval I feel it. In hindsight, I would completely skip river boats, because there is simply no reason to play them, they are so outclassed, that there is no way to play them decently, the only way I managed to go through them is thanks to a bots all around, that jest let you kill them. Also, even now having a lot more Naval matches under my belt, I still have no idea, what ships I am fighting against except a few, so even if I started grinding other nations, I just want to know what is and isn't worth it to play. Naval also has a lot less vehicles than Air/Ground and lower amount of additions per patch, so it should be manageable to create/update one, imo. TLDR: Create Tier List, so people waste less time with garbage ships and have more fun in WT Naval, by playing only good ones.

[@Napalmratte]

quite a bit to read

[@freshfresh5205]

Love it. Every ship has a role. Generally pt boats are great fun even in larger ship levels. Problem is people expect every vehicle to make them a hero instead of enjoying when you are the underdog. However I agree that pt boats are pretty much permanently uptiered at the higher end. Warthunder is one of those games where things are more realistic and it does not always feel like balance has turned everything into a stalemate.

[@JackIsMe1993]

Every match over the last few months has literally been 3vs3 anything else in the match is a bot that give no RP it's miserable, I mean you play a lineup of ships and lose because the boats can cap relatively quickly so you make a lineup of boats and make next to no RP but win the game because you capped.

[@stusstus1473]

Back in the day patrol boats br 1.0-2.7 was my favorite br to play, everyone was just spaming those little speedy boats, menawhile on the background slowly floats mighty german gun platfroms - sf40, and planes in those battles fited very well. Still my highest kill count was done with usa 2.0 40mm bofors boat, 28 kills, what a crazy battle was that

[@Napalmratte]

Yeah the LCS was nasty business 🥳🎉

[@TomPrickVixen]

Yea I'm an ex CBT WOWS player, that gives me a huge advantage over the average naval players. Sadly the IJN tree lacks of a good PT-boat, even the PT-15 is bad, do to it can't hold it self to other similar boats on its BR or even against lower ones. The (only 2) 40mms are the older models,+ the rear has bad firing angles, not to mention its new torps are much weaker to what it had; sadly still the best u get, on an hull that barely has average speed among PT boats.

[@roberttracey5684]

They really need to limit the number of destroyers that can spawn in any given match under a specific BR. Idk if that will help but it might be something.

[@AdmiralGrafSpee100]

For my part naval is the most enjoyable gamemode after thousend of hours of land an Air battles. I am still more the aviation guy but the shortend game time its only rushing for kills, i miss the days witch i could land multiple times with my thunderbolt and bomb the shit out of ground targets and bases meanwhile some eney bomber was space climbing. Good old times😢.

[@ousou78]

PT boats specially those with torpedos totally have their place in a game VS Blue water fleet. Gameplay wise I have some suggestions: -In a match Gaijin should separate the Costal Fleet number of spawn from the Blue water fleet number of spawn (the same way plane number of spawn is different from tanks / ships spawn). -An other unpopular idea I had to make PT boat more relevant was a small Nerf to big ships or rather the way they operate. The nerf would consiste of not having AI gunner eradicate automatically any PT boat in a 5 KM radius. The captain of a ship should order its AI gunner to shoot or shoot the PT boat himself. As a PT boat enjoyer myself, it's very frustrating to set the perfect ambush to a ship that had no idea you were near, only to get vaporised by that same ship AI gunners when the captain was sailing obviously. The game should reward skills & map knowlege, not just who has the most guns. To compensate the lack of AI auto shooting. There could be a general area indication of a PT boat near you like for tank battle. The appearance of that warning would depend of your crew skills for spotting.

[@CH3TN1K313]

I pray that Gaijin's recent acquisition of "Modern Warships" developer, Art Storm, means that Gaijin will split naval game modes into coastal/brown-water navy game mode which would be headed by Art Storm dev teams, and would feature missile armed fast attack craft, and frigates, as their end game, while Gaijin's naval dev team focuses on blue-water navy development. The faster paced nature of coastal boats lends themselves to a more arcade like game mode, where boats armed with guided missiles and chaff/flare dispensers can be running around the map shooting missiles at each other, while the player defending has to manage their chaff/flare countermeasures to be able to evade the missiles. In Modern Warships this is handled using a cooldown system, and also limits the total amount of countermeasures carried. War Thunder, due to its more realistic approach, could go away with the cooldown mechanic and just focus on a player managing their countermeasures based on the amount their ship carries, meaning a reckless player could use up all their countermeasures too early leaving the vulnerable to missile attacks earlier than a more conservative player.

[@GuitarHeroAddict92]

Boats where really fun to play, but the naval grind is demotivating. Make boats RP equal to the br blue water ships, this way it is easier to grind and maybe more players will grind them because you get the reward of unlocking something faster. It does give a extra variaty on gameplay, even in big matches with battleships.

[@lord_igorious1426]

The moment you understand the specific role of the boats in Naval RB, they start to make perfect sense. I don't agree with you, they do work for specific tasks, like fighting for capture points against another boats, capturing in the beginning | end of battle. Many times they decides the result of the battle. Now, using PG-2 to fight Frigates and DDs, it is not the right way to play it. Yes, eventually you going to die, but the capture you get, will contribute to probably 30-50% of tickets.

[@Napalmratte]

If you already have the Tech tree unlocked and bluewater ships of Higher BR, yes that might be the primary role. But If you are only interested in this thing, this is the meta you have to fight

[@TomPrickVixen]

Naval and coastal ships in general are good to do events and tasks, and if u have one of the best (OP) boats, u can easily accomplish a lot in just a few games. + u can annoy large ships to shit, sometimes! Like 1 spawn in a rank 5 boat and u can respawn in anything; the rest of the battle gonna count as rank 5, and u still only play mid rank DDs (except for French). And add more boat pls. there's not much left for me to unlock, in any coastal tree!

[@jyralnadreth4442]

PG-02 will get her 4x Type 90 Anti-ship missiles as they are modelled and in the files (Spaviero too)

[@psychosocialpenguin5358]

While I agree the compression is terrible and the TT split was the worst thing for naval, I disagree with you on coastal being pointless and not having an endgame. Coastal matches can be much faster than BW, and easier to influence a win/loss. With practice the top tier coastal vessels can be quite lethal to early destroyers. The PG-02, for example, can somehow ammo rack entire destroyers with the APDS belt. Same with the USS Cyclone and its 25mm APDS belts, even 40mm AP at extremely close ranges. The map can really dictate the fate of all coastal vessels, more so than anything imo. Maps with open water objectives are certain death, and most maps are easy enough for Destroyers to sail straight into the small boat spawn points, within minutes. I think with some major map and BR reworking, the current state of naval could be made to be enjoyable...just needs significant changes and NOT MORE VEHICLES OR MECHANICS...fix what is there first ffs lol

[@MrBrandt08]

I saw you in game last night haha

[@RickStralen]

Because of the bad rewards and long grind i dont play pt boats

[@MrPokemonWT]

Playing Naval is a choice;) I enjoyed playing naval in cbt and for a moment of open beta testing I enjoyed it but it just started going downhill/nothing changing other than new additions.

[@Napalmratte]

Not really since you have to have competitive boats to cap and hold them

[@yuyy8565]

Hey thank you for the video! I got the pg02 a couple years ago and while in realistic it’s not good for the reasons you mentioned, you should totally try it in arcade! It’s almost illegal the fun I’ve had with it because you always get down tiered and fight only PT boats (don’t use apds belt). I’ve managed a kd of over 3 among 300+ battles. I know you are a realistic battles channel but can you try 1 arcade game? I would curious to know if you change your opinion on it because I think that in that gamemode it’s so OP. I really agree with you on the rewards side, in arcade they are even worse…

[@Chrischos]

Started 6 Days ago already feeling the same shit. Like yesterday i was going in new nation start destroyer and and new boat because i wanted to lvl Japanese and Great Britain boats also but i got matched with a Pr 206 basicaly the first Boat got matched against the nearly last boat JUST BECAUSE i had 3.3 Destroyer like make it make sense. Also that a boat with antiship rockets miniguns etc. pp has a BR of like 2-4 Max is aburd a ship from the 1950+ should already have a BR or 7 something along those lines. Hell u cant even compare designes that were build within the second world war from one year to another because the technological differences are that huge. also there are maps like coral isle or what its called with the many little isles and the bigger empty spot at the B cap u get shot at from destroyers secondary gunners right from the get go like how that makes sense is beyond me. Speaking about that why do i spawn and see all enemys immidiadtly ?! I dont think the Bismarck and HMS Hood spawned right in front of one another i think they actualy needed to sail somewehere to get into battle like i dont want to sail from german coast to the brittish but make the maps more interesting, more hills isles etc. pp something that blocks the vision that can create tactics etc. pp why should i know where the enmy is going right from the start. Also all ships that have secondarys shoot trough hills bushes threes FUCKING MOUNTAINS, first of all ur gunner doesnt even see me anymore, second why cant i shoot trough hilsl bushes etc. with my mainweapons ?! my mainweapons shoot against hillst small as a human jump its ridiciouless. Naval could be sooooo much fun but its just annyoing teammates who dont realize caps are all taken and enemys with all US ships so u have basicaly everything OP because there is nothing US ships do bad its so annyoing, pair that with dudes driving in fleets of 2-4 in premium US shipsand u can already give up right from the start

[@klipsfilmsmelbourne]

I got German Pr 206 which can destroy PG-02 cause that mini gun boat can’t punch through Russian coastal boats that have tough armor Though Japanese larger coastal can destroy 206 if you get into good map that have cover or less players

[@ajace5883]

They should remove the tech tree split, I don´t know what it is for. THe boats would make more sense if you could research the big ships with them as well.

[@realScriddler]

I just started with Naval this month because I already researched and played everything in Air and Tank ecxept China and Japan. And I complained about the Matchmaker there... But the Matchmaking in Coastal is INCREDIBLY BAD. I went back to max BR of 2.0 where I can have fun. And for Bluewater... the SKR7 spam is just annoying... at least I can counter them with the Diana, but this Gameplay is just annoying. I hope Gaijin hears you 😊. Grüße aus Graz

[@sydney4814]

thousand-yard-stare...... 9 kills 2 caps and no deaths.... for 7k rp..... dear god that's an atrocity, like I make more than that in my 2A7/122B+ with 5 kills in one match, the fact that that's an almost "end-of-the-line" premium is just lunacy?!? why on earth would anyone pay for that when they can get a USS Frank Knox/USS Moffett for the same price/lower price and get modifiers x3 better?!?

[@Napalmratte]

Yeah that is the Economy and I das d Not Farm bots here either

[@Area51UFOGynaecology]

arty really needs to be removed from naval

[@Drakey_Fenix]

What happened with the tank reviews? All you do now is just naval.

[@HS_Rick]

Huh people still play naval???

[@RickStralen]

Naval is great for sl and fun u should play arcade not realistic as it is boring gameplay

[@lordwintertown8284]

​@user-bq5rp9mj6q Ehh not always the best place for SL gains, Take a destroyer from the same TT Napalmratte is playing the JDS Ayanami DD-103 for it's repairs (18.3k RB wise) & ammunition costs (6700 sl for shitty 3" shells) will lead you to not many any SL in some matches due to the poor economics of these TT's.

[@RickStralen]

@@lordwintertown8284 destroyers dont make much silver use japanese premium cruisers or op battleships

[@lordwintertown8284]

@user-bq5rp9mj6q Well on the contrary the predecessor Harukaze class destroyer JDS Harukaze DD-101 will make SL alright even if just Rank II but it has the luck of being in the other TT which doesn't have a terrible economy nor the high repairs/ ammunition costs.