The Grave robber and The Ginnel

[@bobpedley8609]

Canky Ginnel, told the story as kids in Middleton, in 1947 during the very cold winter when coal was in short supply as a 12 year old I was sent to the Gas Works in Middleton to collect a couple of bags of coke, which was all Mum and Dad could get. I queued up like other kids and people for my the to be served. I think we had to take our own bags, after waiting in the cold for what seemed like hours I set off home with two bags on my young brother's pram. I didn't want to be seen going up the main road, Long Street so I decided to go the back way home across Lodge Street and up Canky Ginnel. A 12 year old dragging a pram with half a hundred weight of coke up what you rightly describe as a slippy cobbled passage. Around the cemetery wall and up the very steep Church brow, round by the church wall above the park and across St. Leonard's Square a couple of streets down New Lane, where I was born and up Spring Gardens home. This was in the very bad winter with snow on the ground in short pants with the bottoms of your trouser legs frozen and rubbing giving you badly chapped legs. Lovely memories!! Love following your videos Martin.

[@MartinZero]

Hello Bob, brilliant story, I get not wanting to be seen, my dad use to send me for a gallon of paraffin and all the kids used to say "whats that for" I couldnt be arsed explaining. 1947 wow where was the Gas works was it where the old gasometer was off Oldham rd ?

[@AndrewHalliwell]

The younger ones might be thinking, wait, what? Coke came in bags, not cans?

[@jayh9529]

Andrew Halliwell you having a laugh

[@AndrewHalliwell]

@@jayh9529 Yes. :)

[@SeanieVoiceOver]

@@AndrewHalliwell Coke is now a Class A substance

[@andydavidson9004]

Brilliant, my mum ( now 90 ) and from Middleton told me how her and her friends used to dare each other to go up the ginnel but used to run past it terrified. Re the river Irk being shallow I did read that he used flat bottomed boats to get into Manchester.

[@chrismcdonagh5108]

Another great video Martin...I walk up Canky ginnel every day on my way home from work and always reflect on the history of this place.

[@Magdalena76h]

Fascinating story... thank you so much for sharing - you bring these stories to life and it's great to see the position of the river behind the churchyard and to imagine what it would be like to visit a loved one, whom you're raw with mourning over, and find they have been treated so badly and you have no idea where their mortal remains are... Thank you once again!

[@ChloeCarey1]

Found this on google regarding the second class grave I would suggest it refers to the grave plot rather than the coffin. Many cemeteries have 1st, 2nd and public grave plots often called private, second class and public graves. The difference being Private grave plots, contain 3 to 5 burials reserved for members of one family with the right to erect a tombstone. 2nd class grave plots, contain up to 6 burials anyone may be buried here not reserved for members of one family may allow erection of a tombstone (or up to six lines of text on a ledger stone). Public grave plots, contain up to 24 burials anyone may be buried here not reserved for members of one family not allowed to erect a tombstone. Public grave plots were often placed between private grave plots to give the cemetery a feeling of spaciousness rather than overcrowding.

[@fastykidfast]

Hello Martin! Spouse and I have seen many of your videos now, he was raised in Higher Blackley and is right around your age, so your youthful experience of Manchester mirrors his in many ways. Watching this video, I was reminded of something I read whereby bodysnatchers would often remove the shroud and put it back in the coffin, because stealing clothing in the 18th century was a more serious offense than stealing a person. Just a little tidbit should you come back around to the topic. Thanks for sharing your passion for history!

[@mpstrgc112]

Really like the song. Have watched everything for the last 4 years. Now I’m digging into your back catalog. I love what you do in these videos. Thanks.

[@jetsons101]

Hi Martin, were having a cold damp, a bit of spitting, early evening and guess what? This video was the first thing that came to mind after walking the dog. This is a GREAT watch. I must have watch it 6 or 8 times. When and if I make it to Manchester I really want to go here at twilight. Thanks for your time..........

[@TheMancDroneGuy]

Bloody awesome video. Known this story for years

[@barbarajoyce6845]

i was born in Middleton 70 years ago, just opposite Jubilee Park, by the side of the Boars Head. I never knew this story although I know the ginnel and used to play in the cemetery. I think that area of the town is fascinating and thanks for sharing your knowledge. Love your videos.

[@bobpedley8609]

The gas works was off Townley Street, down the short Street opposite Spring Vale with the cafe on one side and the Electric Board building on the other. To the right of that building is the bridge over the River Irk which flowed round the back of the Gas Works. Middleton Arena covers most of the site with the side of the Arena on what was Corporation Street including the old Empire Pictures. The Gasometer was where the block of offices are at the back of Tesco. GasWorks Brew is still there from the end of Corporation Street going through to the back of what was the back of the Railway Pub at the top of Townley Street. The chapel at the top of 24 steps was Morton Street Primitive Methodists, My wife used to bouncy our kids up and down 24 steps in their pram. Love watching your videos.

[@MartinZero]

Yes Bob I know all those places you mentioned. I do remember the Gasometer at the back of Tesco's proper old style. I was out today filming again, more of an adventure exploring this one 👍

[@aladdinmanchester]

I live about 300 meters from this location..walked down it many times. I'm a true Middletonian, in fact every day for 58 years since I was born. I found this video by looking on the net. about the river Medlock..Great video. The older peeps of Midd will know all this, but younger peeps. No...Mi kids were christened in St. Leonards church. So glad I found your vid bro. 👍

[@MartinZero]

Cheers and thanks for watching. I think its a story thats been a little forgotten

[@RingwayManchester]

Another stunner mate, loved the music, mood, editing etc well done!

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Pal 👍

[@ufojules]

Brilliant video. I've been on a ghost walk there and heard this story. Fascinating stuff

[@jetsons101]

Had to re-watch this after your live stream on youtube today. The day you picked to do this was perfect----cold, wet, cloudy. Also the music fit the mood of video, like the music you use for the River Medlock series. Thanks again for your time and effort.....

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Mike

[@phillnick5664]

Excellent vidio..i used to walk down that guniel every day from durnford....that area has such a wealth of history..from the church..the suposidly tunnels to the pubs from the church..some of the best views of Manchester in that graveyard I've ever seen!

[@MartinZero]

Great place 👍

[@semidetached100]

Enjoyed that, well done on ramping up the tension Martin.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks. My attempt at a horror movie 😃

[@adrianford2336]

Great video Martin love the story telling.

[@johnrooney1860]

Once again brilliant video Martin those grave protectors some are at southern cemetery. John

[@MartinZero]

They look great

[@jetsons101]

Martin, don't know why but I still enjoy this video. Lost count on how many times I have watch it..............

[@MartinZero]

Wow, that one is a blast from the past 😃

[@jetsons101]

@@MartinZero Your narration and music were perfect for the subject of the story. 2 AM here, time to hit the hay "go to bed"

[@alfiehenshall688]

Scary and atmospheric ! Love it martin and the music .

[@MartinZero]

Hi Alfie, Thanks 😀

[@monty8888]

Fascinating vid Martin, thanks for producing, I’m really enjoying your historical discoveries! Up here (Scotland, I’m from Edinburgh) the name for these ways is a vennel, rang bells when I said it out loud with the similarity in sound. I don’t know Manchester at all, but really enjoying learning about its history. Keep up the good vids, you’re a star!

[@MartinZero]

Thank you Monty 👍

[@reetcorneille100]

Only recently come across your videos Martin ,brilliantly informative and easy to watch ,if you did walking tours you would definitely have a customer in me ,please can I request you do some videos around Cheetham hill and Crumpsall ,my neck of the woods ,keep up the great work ,Rita x

[@MartinZero]

Hello Rita. Thanks so much. I know both areas quite well, but off top of my head I cant think of a subject to talk about on them. I know you will probably have a wealth of info so if you have any ideas let me know. Thanks again Rita

[@reetcorneille100]

Martin Zero st Luke's church on Cheetham hill and how the story of Robin hood relates to Cheetham also ,I love to know all about the river irk in Crumpsall we call it down the backs where we walk the dog ,also I know this isn't crumpsall but Oliver Cromwell visiting Boggart hole Clough that's another interesting story I know little about but would love to know more ,we are currently sat at home with your you tube channel on "the Tele" ,myself and my partner have both said you would make a great tour guide ,thanks again x

[@MartinZero]

Oh no my big face on your TV 😆 Ok I will have a look into it. Am no history expert Usually just look up enough to make a video. But they sound very interesting

[@brianfox1980]

Another great little film Martin

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Brian

[@shbow1]

Thank you for sharing this tale, very much appreciated from the friends of jubilee park and the old burial ground, it’s quite a different place after dark 👻👻👻

[@MartinZero]

Hello, Many Thanks. I just hope I got the story correct. There isn't much info out there

[@jgilds7947]

Very well presented 👏🏻

[@oscarp.christie7361]

The 2nd Class on the grave stone is I think something to do with the Catholic burial register used at that time and was used to seperate the graves into the social classes. From my understanding, 1st Class graves were for the wealthy. They were usually situated near the entrance to the cemetary and were the first graves people would see as they walked in- usually distinguishable by a large tombstone or cross- sometimes they were reserved for a family so they could be buried together. People could also choose where they wanted to be buried. 2nd Class graves were the next best thing if you couldn't afford first class. They had smaller headstones. 3rd Class graves were reserved for the poor, one could not choose where they were to be buried and there are much fewer headstones because people often couldn't afford one. There were also public graves/4th Class which were paid for out of public money. There were no headstones for them, only a few can be seen but these would have been later added by relatives once they found out where their deceased loved ones were buried. These graves were reserved for the paupers and those who were living in dire poverty. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, this is just from my own understanding of the topic :) Great video, really interesting! :)

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Oscar and thank you for the information

[@JodieAndOlivia]

Thanks Martin for the vids.................I always look forward for your next story

[@MartinZero]

Thank you for watching, comments like yours basically makes it worth doing. 👍

[@PurityVendetta]

Another fab video, thanks Martin. I used to work for the Library Theatre Company. The theatre under the Central Library in Manchester allegedly was an anatomy theatre. This is the story I was told. I'm not sure if it's true but it looked very much like one of the pictures in your video.

[@mactheknife4786]

You do tell a good story old lad, missed this one somehow, previously.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks 😀

[@lairdstephenrousek.r.o.6505]

Brilliant again, Do you fancy a trip over the border, into Yorkshire, Skipton castle is one of the best preserved, medieval castles in the country, Although I've been many times , there is one part I've never seen, A secret tunnel, Which is meant to go ,to the church or even the black horse pub? Probably a 100yards away. It's not open to the public, but maybe with the right connections and safety people, you might get permission to enter it.or parts of it . Something to think about . Cheers for the videos.

[@gingerbread6614]

Oh that’s gross & scary. You do all of this well. Thank you

[@LaFemme434]

Love love love this channel 👍👍👍

[@terryengland1880]

Great video as always, perfect for the time of year. You can let your imagination run riot, a cold night wind howling and whistling around the chimneys, bit of snow in the air the wind rattling at the door, perfect for a good old ghost story especially if told by Martin Zero! Happy Christmas mate and looking forward to hearing from you in the new year

[@MartinZero]

Thanks very much Terry.

[@LionheartNh]

Despite its dark nature I guess we owe grave robbers a dept of gratitude as they were part of the gathering of knowledge that lead to today's modern medical science.

[@pukkah69]

Never new that an walked up that ginnel loads of times as a shortcut home when im not driving thanks martin keep up the intresting video's.

[@MartinZero]

Hello. I cant believe you didn't know about Old Kanky or Canky no one knows the correct spelling. I think it must have been my uncle who told me the story he is a local history fanatic

[@pukkah69]

Thanks for the story and keep up the videos learn something new all the time 😁👍

[@BrasherFox]

Very Interesting, Thanks

[@MartinZero]

Hi Brian, thanks for watching 👍

[@boromickfc]

We need more like this pls Martin

[@MartinZero]

Scary stuff 😉

[@vincentdoyle9416]

Great video Martin..

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Vincent

[@jetsons101]

Yep Martin, just had to watch it again......

[@norfolkacallinnorth7443]

Always knew where it was when I was a kid,never knew this story.

[@jetsons101]

Hey Martin at 9:22 you show a tome stone for a guy named "Samuel Bamford." I googled his name, he was a famous "English radical reformer and writer." After Medlock this is one of my favorite videos.

[@MartinZero]

Yeah he went to the Peterloo massacre

[@jetsons101]

@@MartinZero Well now I have something else to research......

[@jetsons101]

@@MartinZero Lots of information online about him.... Nice read on Wikipedia....

[@SteampunkGent]

Down here such narrow alleys are called opes, but in York they are also called ginnels. However in Cornwall we do have a place called The Gannel which means "the channel" the estuary of the River Gannel at Newquay

[@g1fsh]

That was a great story mate. As u know i love stuff like this. Hope u had a great christmas and New year mate. All the very best to u hope its a great 2018 for u.

[@MartinZero]

Gary !!! Thank you. Happy New Year 👍

[@gregbolitho9775]

Nice use of Black & White/Color. Mary Shelley, had to get her story of Frankenstein from somewhere. Dr. Victor Frankenstein was Swiss Nice goin Martin, Thanks for Old Kanky, you did well m8. Filmin in a graveyard would be just as had as fittin batteries on the side of the road at 2am with a torch on ya head. Done well m8, I enjoyed that one. Stay vertical Eh!

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Greg

[@seannamadra5675]

Well done ! Luv it mate!

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Seanna 👍😃

[@jayh9529]

Is there any remains of a starfort in Manchester Martin would be nice to see👍

[@MartinZero]

Starfort ?

[@jayh9529]

Look it up starfort

[@jayd1974]

An eerie video but good👍

[@MartinZero]

It was spooky being in that Graveyard in the dark on my own 😱

[@derek-press]

there is also another ginnel that comes out on Long Street, we used to use Canky Ginnel if we were going to the old pedal bike shop on Townly Street, he would give us free bits to build our bikes, great guy, and when we were older it was the short cut threw the grave yard to Mellalieu street after a curry

[@brianrobertson1105]

Superb, as ever.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you Brian.

[@ICBMPIRATE2]

Wow born and bred there and never heard that one, nice vid thanks

[@MartinZero]

Hello, Your from Middleton ? Its a well known story I haven't made it up. Be interesting to see how many Middleton folk knew of it

[@ICBMPIRATE2]

Martin Zero yeah never heard of it, lol

[@StiggysGuitarLoft]

ICBM.PIRATE You and I have been up and down that passage many time my friend usually half cut on the way back from the ring o bells pub Kankys cottage rumoured to be at the bottom of the ginnel on the site of the take away on the corner

[@Pommy381125]

That was really good! Thanks for my rather odd name check - I'll find out about Sophia... Liked the black and white footage with the music - A distinct feeling of early ACR videos was prevalent... Nice one - just keep getting better and better - how long did you stay in cemetery - quite a while by the looks of the time lapse you did - when I lived I North Street we used to play in Kankys ginnek and the graveyard - it was a favourite haunt of kids and onanists....😄

[@MartinZero]

I had to keep going back because of the rain. Took ages. Did you like the 4 Neu inspired music, well thats what it was lol. Find out about The gravestone. Too much of a coincidence. Onanists 😆

[@Naparky1]

Thanks Martin Excellent dark video 😉

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Neil, even darker trying to film the bloody thing 😄

[@ericthekingthekingtheking4842]

Just done a bit of research martin after watching this video, i to never knew or have heard of this ginnel or indeed story, i grew up on langley a housing estate at the top end of middleton and now live in middleton centre and my parents before me never heard the reference, anyway great video martin👍

[@MartinZero]

I can’t say the story is definitely true but it’s folklore in Middleton. Am sure if you keep asking around older folk will have heard of it. I think in my defence the story is based on true events. My uncle told it to us years ago he is late 70’s now 👍

[@triffidgrower]

I'm a bit late catching up with this, but is there any notion about what became of Old Kanky, upon his demise?

[@MartinZero]

Nothing is known. Its a folk tale. My uncle told it me. It may be an amalgamation of a few characters

[@texhow1]

Hi Martin, just a question that I thought of while watching your video, how did they get the boats back up to Middleton against the flow with only Oars as I would think it would be a struggle even with an outboard engine which they certainly wouldnt have had in them days.

[@MartinZero]

Hi Terry, The answer is I don't know. This is probably the first video I have done that borders on entertainment in that it repeats Folklore and local myth. The myth is true lots of people have heard of old Kanky or Canky the spelling often changes depending on the source. You can google it and you'll find the story. Its difficult to know if Kanky existed or whether he was just all the grave robbers from the time wrapped up in one scary story to tell the kids. So the details of how he got back I honestly don't know. This story may or may not be true. Its just a good story. If I were Canky I would come back up the Rochdale Canal, much easier, no current. Cheers Terry

[@chrismccartney8668]

A couple of cemetaries me in East London have sentry box where a guard was statiined to prevent Grave robbers..

[@MartinZero]

Hi Chris, really.. wow extreme stuff, but effective

[@freddimble7024]

A Second Class grave provided some dignity as it was filled up between interments, unlike a Public grave which was left open until the last body had been placed in it. ... Thus most of the Second Class graves, with their distinctive ledger stones, can be found along path edges.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Fred 👍

[@mrrandom177]

"Grisly cargo" LOL brilliant !

[@MartinZero]

😆👍

[@kayakmaccaz9256]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇬🇧Have a happy new year 👍🏻

[@MartinZero]

Thank you all the best to you

[@gerardjones7881]

Ahh the good old days. Can't make that easy money today.

[@Themancs979]

Not sure how true this is with reference to the “2nd class grave” but found this on Google....”09-11-2008, 8:48 AM I would suggest it refers to the grave plot rather than the coffin. Many cemeteries have 1st, 2nd and public grave plots often called private, second class and public graves. The difference being Private grave plots, contain 3 to 5 burials reserved for members of one family with the right to erect a tombstone. 2nd class grave plots, contain up to 6 burials anyone may be buried here not reserved for members of one family may allow erection of a tombstone (or up to six lines of text on a ledger stone). Public grave plots, contain up to 24 burials anyone may be buried here not reserved for members of one family not allowed to erect a tombstone. Public grave plots were often placed between private grave plots to give the cemetery a feeling of spaciousness rather than overcrowding.”......another great video Martin..

[@MartinZero]

Hi Steve, Thats an insight. I still think its brutal to put the words second class on a gravestone. I also never knew about the overcrowding thing. The fact they squeezed public graves in between. But I suppose youv'e got to pack em in there was a bigger demand for burial back then. Please tell me the rules have changed regarding the second class thing ?

[@glennwright2197]

martin pls can you tell me the truth about the moon raker story about middleton.love your vids sir.

[@MartinZero]

Not sure, heard bits about it. I’d have to look it up

[@glennwright2197]

@@MartinZero the story goes a bobby on patrol came across a guy who was worse for drink trying to rake a reflection of the moon out of a puddle...lol..

[@mohammadseddon577]

Shame you didn't film Samuel Bamford's house, just the other side of the Church, by the Ring-o'-Bells. Bamford witness and wrote about the Peterloo Massacre.

[@MartinZero]

Maybe another video Mohammad

[@Caustictherapy]

If I remember there’s a mortsafe on one of the graves at Worsley church just off the m60 if your ever over there

[@MartinZero]

Oooh I might have to go look at that, thanks

[@steveandthedogs]

I was told that in St Margaret's in Hollinwood a woman was buried with an iron bolt going through the coffin lid, through her and through the coffin bottom.

[@MartinZero]

Wow thats quite possible and a very good solution 👍

[@HenrysAdventures]

Fascinating and chilling story! I wonder if anyone stole his boy after he death!

[@MartinZero]

Thank you Henry

[@keithslater7813]

My wife and her friends laughed when I said ginnel they called it the giggle gaggle

[@mancunianlee]

A second class citizen was a convicted criminal, put on their grave means they died in prison. Another great video Martin, really moody!! I wonder what kanky means though.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you Scott. I think I was in a mood when making it so it came out in the greyness. Two attempts in the pouring rain. Actually putting second class on the gravestone was a bit harsh. I think Kanky was just his name or nickname

[@mancunianlee]

Martin Zero especially when you consider the church is supposed to be forgiving

[@MartinZero]

Absolutely ! The idea of putting that on a gravestone is shit.

[@stuartrose7628]

You should get Bill Brysons most recent book Martin. Its called the body

[@karina-jx4zv]

Martin 2nd class might have been a steward of a ship

[@anvilbrunner.2013]

2nd class graves. It's brutal being a British subject. Was it ever Great, to be British. Will the class system always be there to abuse us?

[@MartinZero]

In the near future.... yes

[@caahacky]

Too right Dee Daa and our ancestors get the blame for all the ills of colonialism when 95 percent of them barely had a pot to pee in.

[@davidmg1925]

It was so much a part of life in those days. We don't think about it now but you were judged on what you wore and who you were seen with. I was gardening some years ago and the old lady refered to me as a "workman"...... letting me know very clearly where i stood in the hierarchy.

[@tonea1976]

If your ever up bolton way martin search out deane parish church theres graves from 1500s some are like slabs on stones like a table and like axe Mark's in them was old wife's tale ppl was sacrificed theres deane clough at the side and close to church theres like entrance to tunnel rumour has it was tunnel lead to bolton town

[@sjj2428]

I drink in this graveyard all the time. Walk through kankys ginnel at night alone all the time

[@hudsonrobert49]

2nd class grave plots, contain up to 6 burials anyone may be buried here not reserved for members of one family may allow erection of a tombstone (or up to six lines of text on a ledger stone)

[@sjj2428]

Me and my mates believe that 2nd class was something to do with military service

[@ICBMPIRATE2]

If they filled it back in no one would know.

[@MartinZero]

Yeah I wonder if they did. It would be kinder

[@superiorbeing95]

6 minutes in is a bit like a "How To Guide" lol

[@kohedunn]

What a time to be alive or dead come to that.....Suitably scared to death Martin … Shivers going up and down my spine......Thanks Martin ..hahahhah

[@MartinZero]

Good story isnt it Anne

[@davidmg1925]

Rigor Mortis? They would have been stiff as aboard so I guess Kanky had to move like a shot (pardon the expression) to get the goods....... through that hole. My folks have an old family bible at their place. It clearly shows that infant mortallity was rife........you had ten kids to keep 3 alive. I think the way of life was so different, you lived with the cloud ( I suppose) of death every day cos no one lived that long. In the late 19C when photography came along it was the fashion to photograph your kids, whether they were they were alive or not. Soe times this was an important archive for relatives to see the kids before cholera et got them. The other interesting fact ( a close relative was saying to me ) is that in terms of evolution, these individuals are only 10 / 15 generations away from us. That is NOTHING in terms of evolution so these are people that you might see walking out of safeways or lidls........ and crucially had exactly the same emotional make up as us. Thus suffered the same traumas as us and my oint is they didn't like it either when they lost a kid through miscarriage or whatever. As you say Martin, cruel times. Thats before you start on the workhouses....... :-/

[@MartinZero]

I agree with much of what you say. Yes Evolution is measured in multiple thousands of years if not millions of years. Richard Dawkins refers to it as Geological time. So of course they were like us. That is the heartbreaking thing about the plight of the poor back then

[@davidmg1925]

@@MartinZero Yes it is heart breaking. If you put a foot wrong you got transported.

[@jbearmcdougall1646]

The grave with 2nd class would be a military term...the Warrant officer 2nd or 1st class was just above colour sergeant or staff sergeant in the British military.. it's not an old graveyard though relatively speaking, the local council's have just let it go... Shame really.! As for Mortsafes there are some in Greyfriars in Edinburgh,I've seen them myself.. Betsy nice video. :-)

[@johnlandy1679]

Get on dragons den with them mor safes

[@MartinZero]

I'll give it a go John

[@matthewgartell6380]

More like 'old kinky'

[@dickyboyjr]

Just found this.