The Great Ramattra Debate feat. Flats, Samito & Freedo

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Timestamps
0:00

[@truthmachine6382]

This is slowly becoming my favorite overwarch content. Thank you SVB and thanx to the guests.

[@soloqoph5805]

Same. I still love plat chat with avast and custa, sometimes more than the original, but after sideshow and bren left this has becoming what I look forward to a tiny bit more.

[@Harevald]

Too much rant unfortunately

[@zairvix]

@@Harevald this episode was a special case, having listened to every previous episode it's pretty apparent that season 2 and everything that came with it has alot of people really irritated compounding that with some of the problems we actually hoped would get fixed rather than compounded on when the season came. There's usually alot more discussion about the content and new stuff or news with some ranting now and again but this episode was particularly ranty for those reasons and I agree with why they feel frustrated

[@truthmachine6382]

Yeah, but they are aware of how they sound, and feel genuinely bad about it. They feel like the game is not meant for them. Now, that might seem like a grandmaster-centered view, but that is what they are. I'm a run-of-the-mill gold player. Anything is mostly viable at my rank. Yet it's just a matter of time before the stale pro meta is hard-coded all the way down to bronze. Not because we all understand it, or know how to play it as a team, but as you climb up (if that is the player intent) you will reach the players who do - and move that meta down with you.

[@Harevald]

@@truthmachine6382 imo harsh reality is that this game was never meant for high skilled players. It's just too simple at it's core. Metas are found in weeks, sometimes even days because of how obvious many interactions are. If you don't balance game frequently, meta at the top gets stale, because GMs find answers quickly and abuse it non stop and then complain that game is dogshit and unfun, because they optimize for winrate. Ranked sucks because this game isn't really that competitive. You are extremely handicapped depending on which hero you pick on which map and vs what heroes. So much is going on with just hero selection from you and your teammates that it gets obnoxious at higher levels

[@brian21282]

The new ranking passive lets you retain 30% of your rank when you switch seasons.

[@davidrich27]

It’s part of the Olympus theme. Your rank is just a boulder you push up a hill every season. Edit: Shit, commented before Freedo made the same joke...

[@zeus1141]

LMAO

[@Arby631]

@@zeus1141 bruh, you gotta let my man Sisyphus go

[@zeus1141]

@@Arby631 he ain't deserving 🫳

[@Melbeezo]

@@davidrich27 lol

[@ninthfriend3347]

1:21:25 SVB transcending with his 30% ult charge take

[@bm4604]

Definitely a clip worthy moment

[@tosvamigaming]

I actually tought about that.Interesting debates lads... Keep up the podcast vibes!

[@armstrong2052]

I almost thought samito found Jesus in that moment.

[@BeesBees8277]

Thank you for time stamp ❤

[@joelmacool]

Legit the best podcast episode we've had in a while; the rants were pure facts AND pure entertainment!

[@Perjoss]

when the the podcasts and rants are more fun than the game itself 🙃

[@Whokilledkenny9]

Probably not a good thing. If the episodes are juicy, its probably because the game is a disaster LMAO.

[@CouleeCosmonaut]

Couldn't agree more. Sad that the state of the game has to be this shit to get a great episode like this...doing it for the LULZ tho.

[@erikhendrickson59]

It's really disconcerting that they're basically all on the same page, for the most part, and Blizzard just doesn't seem to see a lot those problems.

[@scarecr0w630]

1:33:00 SVB literally stated my whole entire feelings. I work 10-14 hours a day and going from bronze to gold in 1 season felt amazing! Couldn't wait to go for plat next season! . But wait now I'm bronze again?

[@apollo3997]

Same exact experience for me. I was on the verge of hitting diamond, literally plat 2. You think, oh , well i'll just place high plat next season and get diamond in a week, but nope, BAM, gold 5. Fucking love this game. Even worse, all the high plat/ low diamond players are in high gold with you so you're basically already playing in diamond. So why tf am I working so hard to try and get this icon just to be shot down 2 full ranks and play turbo mode against people I can't even queue with because my mmr is so much higher. Whoever thought of this system needs to be shot.

[@ismphob]

man I hit masters 2 just to come back this season to see plat 2 as my visible rank but grandmaster challenger titles on the enemy team in ranked XD

[@ismphob]

man I hit masters 2 just to come back this season to see plat 2 as my visible rank but grandmaster challenger titles on the enemy team in ranked XD

[@scarecr0w630]

@@ismphob oh fr? I didn't realize it gave the titles out AND dropped them to Diamond. That's ass

[@SnakeSkinz]

@@apollo3997 I made it to Diamond and I got out into Gold 2...

[@pattarick1054]

It's clear they're aiming for more casual players. They literally stated at the beginning of the season, that your MMR will not represent your rank. So my gold lobbies are harder than my friends' plat lobbies because I have a higher UNSEEN MMR than them. That's not fair.

[@HexuTV]

just play qp and loose more, i have a feeling that mmr is accoutn based, not ranked/unranked :)

[@thebigzan]

Reminder that the plat lobbies are harder than gold because there are probably diamond people there lol

[@matteoschlechtleitner4550]

At 29:40 we had Flats ranting, SAmito and SVB eating, and Freedo chilling backwards with arms behind his head....LOL So fun

[@cheech6234]

Flats tends to do this alot

[@BuffNesquikBunny]

@@cheech6234is there a problem? The points he makes are usually correct

[@cheech6234]

@@BuffNesquikBunny no they are not remember when he said that one tank will mean ow2 is going to alot better then 1 ? Lies also I'm sure if you asked him about his weight, overeating and just all around not being able to have sex with anyone that thinks he is attractive I'm sure that man's would start lies

[@Hrbl.]

@@cheech6234 Wtf is this take? Grow up. Also, 1 tank vs 2 being better is subjective. I prefer it. So he can be correct, so can you if you believe the opposite.

[@BuffNesquikBunny]

@@cheech6234 looool why so hurt?🤣 Well I’ll make sure not to take ur opinion in account considering you’re projecting😆😆

[@nuclearsimian3281]

Watching Samito's epiphany was so rewarding at 1:21:35, that just moment of absolute realization, this is the moment in like DBZ where you go "Oh shit, he's about to go super saiyan, this fight is DONE. NOW he gets it." "That's the best realization I've ever seen in my life" coming out of a giddy Flats just broke me.

[@youtubefan1735]

What did sam say I can’t understand him

[@five5tar111]

YES SVB NAILED IT! He said "for someone actually trying very hard to improve but doesn't have that much time, they will spend an entire season to climb a few hundred sr, and when you take that all away their whole motivation to get better goes away." YES EXACTLY! I don't want to grind up to diamond 3 to be slapped down to gold the next season. The rest was really really good but this is me right now. Because now I no longer want to play the game to get better. And I'm thinking about quitting it all together.

[@simone953]

exactly they boutta catch me on val💀 bc i got to high diamond so you’re telling me if i got to masters i’d have to grind from plat or low diamond? be so serious💀

[@rollingtides1768]

Dude swear. In season one I wanted to grind but lost the will to do so after findjng out how hard I'd be deranked afterwards and even now I can't play 2 games of comp without feeling burnt out. Push as a gamemode sucks the meta (especially for me as a support main) is ass and I just can't bring myself to play something I'm not enjoying

[@five5tar111]

@@rollingtides1768 Yeah trust me I know about the support thing lol. I'm an ana main. Along with how much educational content I watch on ana I probably reached 1k hours total on her.

[@five5tar111]

@@simone953 I'm a mid diamond player and I was put in mid silver last season. That shit sucked.

[@FreakGoat]

I fucking quit, weight off my shoulders tbh not playing that dogshit of a meta in diamond and above no thanks

[@ratchetst3v38]

if nothing else, kudos for making Samito experience tranquility (at least before another round of "Sojourn is fine, Genji nerfs incoming")

[@alabbasalshatari3237]

Freedo is such a good guest to. have. I loved his takes

[@DREADDWELLER]

He's turned into a gigachad, I remember he used to be really big back in the OW1 days but he's lost a huge amount of weight

[@paper2946]

@@DREADDWELLER Clearly, it's that manscaped sponsorship. Dude's lost literal pounds of pubes.

[@secretlyaslug2325]

I have a lot of empathy with him for being so hopeful and optimistic at the launch of the game but being so let down by the lack of response to stuff like Sojourn or the DPS passive stuff. What happened to live service dude.

[@ianhunt1866]

I think that he does a good job keeping logic involved. Ultimately I think that even if the guy annoys you, he comes up with some eloquent takes on the fly.

[@peel8290]

1:19:45 you can actually see this in the VGC formats for pokemon, where early formats ban over centralizing aspects and you get to see a wider range of strategy, and as the format opens up and allows these more over-tuned and powerful strategies and pokemon, the game shifts towards a very limited meta where less approaches are viable (for example without the current limited vgc format there's no way in hell murkrow would see significant usage)

[@Revanxbone]

SVB opening sam's third eye is HILARIOUS 😂😂😂👍🏼

[@nuclearsimian3281]

Flat's reaction to that was the best one possible.

[@bm4604]

It's like when you learn for the first time about how in push the rotations through the middle dead space coupled with ultimate cycle nature of the game makes push mathematically an inherently Snowbally mode. Better balance match maker could never solve that problem

[@Yvanne]

LOL

[@noahdtdog9082]

I've been waiting for this! So glad to have the Golden Trio back on again with the best host. Can't wait to listen all night instead of sleep xD

[@LousyBlowfish]

1:13:30 Flats has a good example of how data needs to be interpreted to be useful. I would say data is another tool to add to your toolbox, not the only tool to have

[@rollingtides1768]

Yep. Only using data is why apex legends is dying every day

[@silcoxjakob]

@@rollingtides1768 the last 2 new maps on apex suck

[@Tamaquashad]

At 1:24:00 Freedo is describing Captains Mode in MOBAs. With no mutual picks, and alternating bans and picks, which has been a staple for 10+ years and WORKS. The only issue I see is MOBAs have 50+ heroes so the comps can be pretty diverse. Whereas OW2 doesn’t have as many heroes…

[@godskinn]

I look so far forward for these talks , gets me through work so easily

[@crazeclique3543]

I relate so mych

[@GetQuakedOn]

1:05:00 the doom survey

[@ObeseWizard]

SVB is one of the best podcast hosts I have ever listened to. I hope this podcast does well obviously, but whatever your future holds SVB, you should definitely keep pursuing being a podcast host.

[@EJW2003]

1:26:35 tbh watching that cat choose the papers live was one of overwatch leagues most memorable and entertaining stream 😂

[@Shirospyre]

I feel like it was great to watch because we had already accepted that hero pools overall was bad whether a cat or a human or an AI did it. At least we got some laughs watching a cat do it.

[@nikolasweischner3560]

The excuses for ''early access'' completely go out the window when you are selling merchandise, battle passes, and $20 skins. They are essentially selling the game, the game is out. They can call it whatever they want.

[@PatrickJr1502]

This is true, but that's the new market of f2p games. It's the fortnite meta.

[@Oliver.Pfahl.]

The claping after flats rants his heat out made me laugh so hard. Legends, all of you!

[@ianhunt1866]

Make sure to like this! We need in depth discussion like this. Get my man SVB some views, he is one of the OG educational content creators for OW

[@polars4183]

I am a high Diamond - low Masters support. My first issue with my role isn't that it's underpowered, in fact, it's quite game-breaking to play near-perfect support play the issue is that it's simply not fun. I spend 90% of my game as Kiriko holding a right-click while looking at someone and that's about all I do (for the bronze players, this is an exaggeration). The second issue is that I am very reliant on my DPS and tank to make plays. In my rank this isn't really a big issue as everyone in my rank is at least somewhat competent but trust me when I say that in low Diamond or below you are not so lucky. Now the issue isn't really that supports can't make plays my issue is mainly that Kiriko (I play flex support for scrims and all other than Kiriko are not viable) has a hard time making plays. Her damage is good but extremely unreliable and her abilities, baring her ult, are purely defensive. What I really mean by this is that no matter how much I heal my 3 - 7 Cassidy, I will never help to make a play. This is poorly worded but not sure how to make it sound better, sorry.

[@RBondZ007]

Metal rank support is an absolute nightmare

[@kuhnfucius1967]

I dont think supports are that useless. If you are a high diamond/low masters support you can shit on anyone gold and below. You outplay dps cause you have passive heals and can out dps low gold dps players. Hence why moira is good in low elo but shit in high.

[@wm8401]

As soon as I read through those godless patch notes on Tuesday I thought about our lads on Group Up. Thanks as always for doing this. Love the pod.

[@ammox4683]

Flat's got a sick joker arc going on

[@erikhendrickson59]

I actually left my first OverWatch game-in-progress in years this afternoon. I finished Season 1 Support at Gold 2 and it reset me to Silver 4. Ok, fine. But yesterday I noticed that there are players in my games who were ranked Diamond *_or even MASTERS_* during Season 1, and they're playing against teams full of players who peaked in Gold. It's completely ridiculous. Their Season 1 Masters Tank was 57 and 2 on Junker Queen at the point in which I left the game.

[@EJW2003]

Seeing the og group-up fourhorsemen in my feed gets me so excited, this podcast is such a blast every time

[@Nick-wo3vi]

SVB brought up a point that I relate to heavily. I'm a university student in my final year, so I don't have the most time to grind ladder. Despite this, I reached Plat 1 at the end of season 1. I started up the game last night and saw that I was reset to Gold 5. Huge bummer.

[@bombdememo]

Thank you for the podcast! It was entertaining and I like listening to your perspectives. Personally, I’m not going to touch ranked until they become more proactive and actually listen to the community.

[@therouxarts]

I've been waiting for OW podcast like this for years. I look forward to this every time.

[@zc8673]

The issue with the current competitive system is that it is sacrificing all competitive integrity in order to make players who aren't actually trying to be competitive FEEL competitive. I think competitive should be difficult, even brutal at times. It shouldn't be designed to make you feel good when you're not actually doing well. It should force you to ACTIVELY improve in order to move up the ranks. If you're playing casually, you should just play quick play.

[@CGTradez]

Why has it took this long for KZbin to recommend this channel to me? Is this new? I subbed instantly

[@vincethompson1604]

What a brilliant Podcast, so many key points I really hope Blizzard is listening. I am just concerned they are not tho. As a Plat 51 year old PS5 Overwatch gamer I find this game so frustrating I have stopped playing comp because of it. I know my opinion is not as justified as the high ranks due to my skill level, buy I would love to discuss this game with SVB over comms. Love this series.

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 09/12/22. Podcast links below! The best way to support my content is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-ramattra-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@endless_del]

is the date a typo or is that around the time you all got to do the playtest? edit: nevermind, i'm american

[@V_ii]

Thank you for adding the recorded date & for the amazing work you put into your content.

[@Its_Toko]

1:18:57 This. Is. Exactly. What. I've. Been. Saying. THANK YOU SVB, GOD DAMN SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT

[@burni988]

Yes it's so basic and flow charty

[@geminimaxxim]

No doubt one of the funniest podcasts in a long time. Love this shit

[@strangejune]

Help, they went Pharah and we picked junk Mei.

[@Sousless]

What a great podcast! So heartfelt! Best guests as always.

[@ryanvernon6798]

It’s good to revisit these older podcasts to see how bad the game was and how much it’s improved now a days

[@Arby631]

I watched infinitely more SVB podcasts than actual overwatch I played over the last two weeks. (I haven’t played OW as a Supp main)

[@Unequaledking]

Thank you for these SVB! Always stoked to see a new one

[@thememecabinet9223]

I hope the flats rant is played on a big screen in Blizzard HQ

[@TheRealMollyPilot]

1:42:02 - for those of you who don't quite understand what Freedo means: When you are deranked and playing in a lower rank than you should be, you have to carry your team to win the map. But it gets to be FRUSTRATING AS HELL!

[@KetchumUnderarock]

This is my Favorite overwatch content. Plat player here and sojourn is oppressive there still. Keep up the good work everybody!

[@lavitz3045]

I live for these things, thanks to everyone who takes part in these!

[@bm4604]

The topics discussed on this podcast are so enriching sometimes.

[@BigMamaBlack]

It’s funny we are talking about the same problems today season 11

[@P_Bad]

great topics on this one, itd be nice also to set the chapters on the video to easily direct to certain topics that you may be more interested in

[@julysolchenberger5790]

I think this is one of the few group up videos they havent done that for

[@P_Bad]

@@julysolchenberger5790 oh ur right, didnt notice the other ones since i watched them on mobile

[@BunnyOfThunder]

As a metal-rank player, I think the #1 takeaway from the podcast is this: "Even at the metal ranks people don't like Sojourn." Similarly: "Counter-picking hurts the metal ranks too." In other words: metal rank is more fun when the top tier is well balanced, imo. I've had some games lately that were dominated by Sym and Pharah. When that happens, I don't think, "Plz nerf." I think "I need to get gud." Because these characters easily get wrecked at top tier play, and overcoming them is a challenge for me to beat. But if something is toxic at the top tiers then what am I supposed to aspire to? If I'm not sure how to beat Sojourn, for instance, the answer is "Oh, this just gets worse as you go up, sorry." I want the top-tier to be good so that if something is wrecking me I can learn how to beat it.

[@Sonsoyo]

If this game is keeps moving towards the Cod casual mantra, Im going to be so upset. I moved from loving wz1 to hating wz2, now playing overwatch 2 and Im loving it! Please please don't cater to the casuals. Hopefully that makes sense. But hey I also love competitive smash and thats considered a party game.

[@ryemusefan]

Great discussion as always 👌

[@kylepackard7499]

As a diamond-plat pleb I want the devs to completely disregard me and simply balance for the higher ranks. I am convinced that balancing for plebs like me has led to abysmal gameplay. At a most basic arguement, high level players demonstrate the differences in hero strength far more significantly due to the simple premise of optimization which is inherent to becoming a better player. I have no sympathy for players that cant land a shot and think moira is broken. The game has been at its best when the game is balanced for the highest tiers of play and its worst when the devs balance around silver to plat.

[@DoubleEm08]

So true about Blizzard underestimating the collective knowledge base of its players. In some cases, we have years of experience (thinking, playing, and engaging with the game) over the newer game devs. You'll always have extreme positions, but discarding player opinions out of hand is not a good strategy.

[@sadino123]

1:05:00 Why not give us a draft mode? Because the risk of that becoming the most popular mode proves they were wrong about their own product, and that's terrifying. Jeff did the standard thing by rejecting creators feedback, the industry isn't for "commit" players. Blizzard does that for all their successful games. They pasteurized MMOs with WoW, pasteurized isometric Action rpgs with Diablo and now they did it with the hero shooter.

[@GriFFonRec4]

My metal rank patch notes. Lower Kiriko's healing by 30%, but lower her ult requirement by 30%. Kunai doesn't have a special head shot damage multiplier, it just does 60 damage and 120 respectively. Maybe touch Suzu in some way. Now she will get a lot less from heal botting, but her ult will charge around the same. The way they marketed her was as Zen healing but Genji offense/mobility. I think the fact that her BODY shots do no damage and the fact that her healing is so effective make it so it's literally dumb to go for duels. Any other character can literally just beat you easier since they can go for body shots alone while you HAVE to land the head shots to win. Sure when you land the head shots you delete people, but it's the same with Zen, or Cass, Ashe, ect.. and THEY don't have this weird multiplier making you get punished for landing body shots. Like, we literally want the vision they tried to sell us. A supportive Genji, a support for DPS players, whatever else they said. Don't punish us for playing aggressively with these weird traits then and lower the healing so it isn't the best play style. Make it heal like 80 or 90 over the full clip. That's good for DPS, particularly mobile flanky types who you would be playing with but worse for tanks and long sustained damage.

[@tqkf8878]

SVB had the genius point on counter picks and talking about going winston and the enemy team picking hog and then you just lose. I’ve personally experienced this - my friend is an ow1 doom player so he tends to play tank doom a lot and literally we realised that there was a law in the way the game worked in that within 3 fights the enemy team will swap to an anti-doom comp and that just felt shit

[@MoroDanan]

Yeah unortunately for doom mains I tend towards playing orisa, so i love seeing a doom pop up. Because unless their real good, it's almost always free kills. but yeah, especially in tank role, I find myself switching multiple times per match, and praying to god they don't counter pick again. And if i'm on support, I'm playing dead by daylight: overwatch edition *piggy breathing grows ominously in the background*, and praying my tank isn't an absolute feeder. And please send your friend my condolences, it must be rough being a doom main in this climate. which is a damn shame, because i quiet often enjoy when I get a Doom that is even just decent, .

[@KyouOneZilla]

Yeah, it does feel bad when you are playing Dva or JQ in quickplay and halfway through the match both DPS swap to Reaper and Mei and the tank switches to Roadhog. At which point it's just up to my teammates because I'll have to play hide and hide more.

[@charlieb8735]

I really feel like the more we see of 5v5 the more I get the feeling that they may have created far more problems than they solved

[@DeadKaat]

I love tuning in for these, I'm glad that there are big voices in the community who are preaching the discontent that myself and I'm sure many others feel. I'm not very good at comp, barely playing OW1 but got up to gold for my first season as support. This season I'm gonna try to push to plat with the long term being to get into top 500. So far it's been unfun, and very frustrating especially now that we're in the doom/hog meta. This role was ass before, and now it's even worse. I've seriously considered hopping to another game because i just don't feel the fun that i was having in season 1 this season. Anyways rant over, thank you guys for the amazing content and streams!

[@G005E-H0NK]

I am normally critical of these videos, but this was brilliant. Everyone had well thought out takes, the emotional rants were fun to listen to. As an OW veteran myself I remember just how long hero band has been pushed by freedo and I recall the Jayne days, was nice to go down memory lane. Also big shout out to all you content creators putting in the effort to try to make the game better, maybe they could hire you to do consultations on hero design and balance patches. I recall that Flat's experimental was one of the best patches to play on and he was one man, having some fun.. I don't know what this dev team are doing. Anyway, best group up by far, thanks again for the content.

[@sushi_mermaid7116]

I want this podcast weekly!!!!! Love this!!!

[@Tamaquashad]

The thing is, you guys as content creators have it the worst, while I may not be top tier GM, I still try to take the competitive side of the game seriously. If the competitive engine of the game becomes soulless, I’m out, I’ll go play another game that has a better competitive system; whereas you guys have built your success on this game it won’t be as easy for you to switch games.

[@Midnight_Premiere]

I think one of the biggest differences between the beta and now is that cross play is active and there is a lag time of getting updates approved through the Xbox and playstation stores and getting the updates through. The Beta only had to update the overwatch PC content. Also I think they desperately need to open the floodgates of comp cross play and allow PC and console to share the same rank que to reduce wait times

[@rustynails9560]

The chemistry of this 4 is unreal. Love this content

[@adamsinnott1601]

1:32:30 SVB's point really hits home for me personally. I'm a uni student living away from home and I leave my xbox at home, so I don't play during the week. I can only play at times between Friday night to Sunday evening when I'm home, so I can't play a lot each week. I just got back to masters on the final day of OW2 season 1 for the first time since OW1 season 32 or something, so to be reset back to plat is really disheartening

[@ayrzingdestroyer6913]

This channel was a great idea congrats to you and good luck but you don’t need it this will blow up

[@K1ngHoward]

I know as a support player, one "feel" I can't put my finger on is: I don't know if they changed something about the visuals for health bars or when my heals land, it feels like I am not healing a lot. I know the numbers didn't change, but it just hits hard like I am not doing too many heals. I had to get used to it for like a month after OW2 dropped. I notice it more on Ana. Her healing darts just disappear into the ether and I get no visual feedback. I've been having to shoot, wait, and then hear the ping that "yes, you did hit your teammate", but get no visual feedback from it. Back in OW1, Ana used to have a big burst of light that appeared on teammates when they got hit by my healing darts, but its not there anymore.

[@qwerty36515]

Yeah, they did the same thing with Moira. Her healing over time had a visual cue. It was very useful; I'm not sure why they took it out.

[@bberns8252]

Ngl this should just be the podcast cast by now lol

[@James_15R]

Love this eps! Thanks SVB and gang

[@nomercywatch9068]

What a nice move would be. Is the fact that supports almost never get POTG.

[@RBondZ007]

Yeah they should fix the criteria of the Potg and maybe even have separate ones for each role? Idk lol

[@paper2946]

I honestly can't see them getting anywhere close to evening sojourn's performance throughout the ranks without rebalancing her around a rail shot without the headshot multiplier. But I don't know how much I would want that.

[@kfed9834]

Just give rail gun an activation time like Mei icicle

[@TheSpartanlaw]

She would still be very good if it couldn't headshot with rail

[@DjNaste]

@@TheSpartanlaw true, but she wouldn't be busted.

[@paper2946]

@@TheSpartanlaw Which is fine. We don't want to just flatly dumpster her. We want her to good, but not clearly the superior option in so many situations.

[@paper2946]

@@kfed9834 I'd really hate that. They're trying to build her around the railgun as it has existed in FPS, traditionally. The big one people remember is the railgun in the Quake series, which is a single shot, discrete hitscan weapon that deals high burst damage. No headshot multiplier, because Quake comes from a time when that wasn't even really a thing yet. And it worked as the series really leaned into high speed and complex movement. I think taking the headshot multiplier out would feel more thematically similar to what it sounds like they had in mind when wanting to bring the quake railgun to Overwatch, while also allowing them to remove some of the huge discrepancy in value the hero has as she scales with aim skill.

[@NeonFantasy1]

I don't get why Experimental Mode isn't used more to test some of these buffs/nerfs/reworks before making them live in OW2. Since Experimental in OW1 was for PC only, it allowed Blizz to make quick updates where needed if they could see something was over or under performing. It's why OW2 beta was so good, as they could take on feedback and update quickly if something didn't feel good or was too strong. And after a week or so, they can take that experimental data, make the decision to see whether or not it should go through, and at least if they proceed with making it live across all platforms, then at least the live version of the patch comes out not "as bad" as it initially could have been, had it just gone live right away.

[@dirt_dert_durt]

True. The entirety of Season 1, Experimental was a locked vestigial tab, and it really should have been used more

[@RB_003]

Flats calls it his villain arc, but all that is is passion, disgust and disappointment. Almost like you are a dad and overwatch is your son, and overwatch screwed the pooch and all you are trying to do as dad is process your emotions

[@milkandcookies66]

I know you have become frustrated with Overwatch, with the recent balancing and lack of balancing as of late, but I do want to say that you are a valuable member of the Overwatch community and it would not be the same without you so thank you for the work that you do. You provide a platform not only to educate new players but also provide a grounded space for content creators to discuss and share their insights on the games current state as well as what ideas they have about the game moving into the future. I must reiterate It would not be the same without you. Thank you and I hope you have a wonderful day!

[@ZaqDayton]

It seems like when PvE comes out, the casuals will have an amazing game and then maybe they’ll start to balance PvP around higher tier play? But until then, maybe they won’t balance around pro/high level play? Idk maybe it’s the copium I’m huffing. I just wish they could balance 5v5 a bit faster esp if this is “early access.” Then it truly “shouldn’t” matter.

[@rurutuM]

Balancing the game for top 500 is not a good business strategy for blizzard. Majority of the players playing 8 hours a week. This is a game not a job

[@Harevald]

Why people who aren't playing this game a lot care about balance? Meta doesn't matter much in lower ranks because you can win with every hero once you start getting better at the game

[@rurutuM]

@@Harevald people don't care about balance. Blizzard are the ones making changes in favor of fun not balance

[@Harevald]

@@rurutuM They are doing random changes that rarely change anything. So many slow, safe patches like Junker Queen. If they would balance around low ranks, they for sure would buff heroes like Widow into oblivion and nerf Reaper, Hog, Moira. Things that are easy to pick up will usually do more done in lower ranks because they require less effort to extract some value. And if they would balance around fun (even though it's the dumbest idea in existence because it's subjective) then they would buff popular heroes like Genji and nerf Torb into the ground

[@rurutuM]

@@Harevald that's the thing. Genji is popular in a game with 30+ heroes. They want his pick rate to go down. Get other heroes to be played more so they can sell more skins. And genji is oppreseive in low ranks where people aren't on team voice chat, nobody peel for heals and flankers pick off heals in back

[@Harevald]

@@rurutuM Balance imo is one of the most important aspect of the game, because if meta is stale then you constantly play against the same heroes for months. It's straight up not fun, even when my hero is in the meta now

[@wildwarturkey8356]

The lack of speed in balance updates are due to consoles having to approve game updates, I've always thought that balance updates should be loaded from the server and applied each time you open the game and prevent any physical updates except for updates for new heroes, maps, pve etc

[@Eazy3129]

Great podcast SVB. It should be a mandatory listen every week for all Ow2 devs.

[@tqkf8878]

The tank counter pick was such a good point because I had one game on tank where the other tank and I spent the entire time having to counter pick each other and we must have gone through 5 different characters trying to counter pick each other, and it only ended when I decided to ego their sigma as hog, and that’s not how the game should be played

[@adeeshadeegala5900]

Honestly, either make it so all ult charge is retained when swapping, or no ult charge is retained when swapping. One would encourage counterpicking, the other would discourage it.

[@platoscave4854]

Here is what I want. -Patches every 2 weeks -Hero bans for Masters/GM -Option to see your SR/Skill Tier after every game -I am fine with decay, but I liked SVB's Idea, that you will have no decay if you play "25 games" -Nerf Roadhog, less damage or more bullet spread (or bring back the full ult charge for shooting him or both), Tweak doom down a bit: not sure personally what to tweak there

[@gob384]

On the note of hero bans, in comp games (Plat for tank) I have improved my experience through gentlemen agreements with the other tank of 1 hero ban each. When Zarya was broken, we always banned the pink hair lady, and then monkey players would ban ball, hog players would ban Orisa, Sig players would ban Monkey and nobody would ban Rien, ball, queen (I had 1 person ban doom for some reason in 40 games). I need to wait 2 weeks before we start, but because the tank is just 1 player, you can negotiate. I wish it could be extended to the other roles.

[@PaleoDrew]

I don't play OW anymore but I love listening to these Grpup Ups

[@kevinatenine9797]

I just want to point out that we're two months into the game and the experimental card has not been used once. It's just sitting in the menu collecting dust.

[@arrx7668]

I'm wondering if they forgot they tried this rank decay so you can feel better about climbing thing in season 2 of OW1. It lasted one season before they gave up on it.

[@starhaven1881]

The tank problem is because its down to 1 Tank, with two there was always some variation options. With one this tank vs this tank. This tank vs this one. theres no variation

[@julianthuraisingham9617]

This content is amazing! As a support main it’s been a miserable experience and I think sadly after nearly 1000 hours of OW I think I’m officially done. The carrot of winning is not worth the stress of being hunted for an entire game.

[@julianthuraisingham9617]

Also this group needs an actual support main

[@Gdhttu]

They should get Tesla on sometimes

[@Warrior_Meta]

@@Gdhttu Isn’t that the guy who only plays Moira and argued with samito back in the day? Lol time flies

[@Gdhttu]

@@Warrior_Meta I forgot that happened 🤣 but yea that’s him

[@OhtoMata]

Great episode guys. I may be the odd one out here because I've been on the casual quickplay andy grind since mid OW1 and the game isn't even fully fun that way. If you wanna play a "bad" character to have fun and start actually having success on them, somebody will swap to the oppressive pick and ruin it. Anytime I feel like I am actually achieving things on Junker Queen or Ball the other tank locks Road Hog to gives me a reality check. You can say Soujurn is bad at metal ranks but in reality she is a hyper mobile solider with a chance to one shot you, which is still oppressive. Not to mention that casual content of cosmetics are locked behind an insane paywall that is more expensive than real life merch.

[@Enrico_2077]

Thanks for this great discussion guys. Lots of good points and thoughts about the state of Overwatch. I wish they'd do the type of testing you guys are advocating for, but I'm not holding my breath.

[@zairvix]

I listen on Spotify but I always come to youtube just to like the video when svb asks :)

[@Gdhttu]

Based

[@Link2855]

It was SUPER demoralizing to grind from silver to diamond in OW1 only to be ranked in silver at the beginning if OW2. Ok, I grind back up in season 1, glad I don't have to do that again. Now season 2 happens and it resets me back to silver 1 again. Why should I waste my time with ranked at this point? Unbelievable.

[@Trae4k]

I was pumped to see this on my sub feed

[@Nyxtia]

I'm always so excited to watch these and so appreciative that they exist, but this is the first one in a while where it seems the optimism has just been taken from everyone due to the persistent mismanagement of the game. This is meant to be a podcast on season 2, the new hero and the future, but Blizzard hasn't even balanced season 1 yet! We were promised a live service game, but since season 2, fortnite has already launched a new chapter and released its first balance patch yesterday - we have nothing. It's really depressing and I pray to God Blizzard wake up and realise what's at stake here.

[@joeydemartyn7976]

They need to add back the experimental mode. That would help identify problems with new heroes before they are actually released!

[@jayrichardson9746]

I enjoy this every weekend, thank you!

[@Soulsebb]

22:30 is the start of the Flats rant (a really important thing to hear, I think Flats has a lot of good points and he’s usually pretty hopeful so him feeling this way is worth noting for the community in my personal opinion)

[@MoroDanan]

yeah I found Flats in the last couple of weeks (newish overwatch player) in my efforts to learn more about the game and gain insight from the higher ranked players. And yeah for the most part the videos i've watched have been quiet positive, and it's a little saddening to see someone so passionate and, as you put it, hopeful, be so pessimistic about the state of the game. In saying all that, I do enjoy his impassioned rants tho. Very informative and hilarious.

[@tqkf8878]

I think one thing about the move to 5v5 was it made the game more casual - in making the game inherently more chaotic it was made in a way simpler and is now less about what you’re doing as a team and more what you’re doing as an individual to counter the other team. One of the things I liked about 6v6 was that it was much more tactical and almost like a moba, which enhanced the competitive nature of the game as it would rely much more on knowledge of the game to play competitively. If overwatch was 5v5 from the beginning I think that niche comps like pirate ship would never have been developed, regardless of the plausibility of those comps in 5v5. This isn’t me trying to defend 6v6, I’m just making a point that 5v5 feels more casual and probably supports more casual play

[@Nynzy]

As someone who plays console with PC friends, having Aim Assist is fantastic now. Granted, I am not playing in extremely high levels, but it makes playing against PC people at least a little better. This is especially true because it is quick play only~

[@davidsabillon5182]

I was waiting for this.

[@EJW2003]

1:45:50 my biggest frustration with the rank system is the fact that I don’t know what rank I am after placing. I want to get my rank on all roles which is 21 WINS not games. That’s a lot of games played to not know what I’m matched at. It’s very frustrating that I’m expected to repeat that multiple times to see what rank I’m playing in. Additionally, I feel like I can’t play comp because I want to finish the battlepass I paid for. I don’t have a lot of time to play and I want to make it to the end (got tier 86 last season for context). It’s easier to finish weekly’s and daily’s in quick play so playing comp doesn’t happen unless I have lots of free time in a day. Haven’t placed yet this season but if I’m lower than season 1 I will be pissed because blizzard told me my season 1 rank is artificially lower already. If I only play my 7 games each season does that mean I keep getting dropped every season? It’s not a communication issue blizzard it’s the system at this point, please just tell me my rank 😪 Edit: Actually improving is what makes rising through the ranks feel so rewarding. Opposingly; getting rewarded for grinding games with your visual number going up just because you played your games makes ranking up feel meaningless in comparison because you don’t actually know if you’re improving or if blizzard decided you played enough games to tell you what your rank is. This became a passionate rant wasn’t expecting that 😅

[@TheNeoMc]

They'll never do hero bans for one sole reason. I don't remember the exact percent mentioned, but I recall a developer saying 70ish% of players main 1-2 heroes. If hero bans were ever introduced, and a player had their main banned, it would almost instantly decide the comp match before it even begins.

[@rekkwaffle7668]

Sounds like people need to learn more heros. They aren't that hard.