The Greatest Recordings EVER! Mahler: Symphony No. 5

[@jonfield7647]

Thank you for you’re great critiques of this music. I’ve been listening to classical music since 1986. Listening to your recommendations has been almost as exciting as when I first discovered them. I know it should be obvious but, wow what a difference a good performance makes. I like your natural, unpretentious way of talking about this music and along with the deep knowledge and enthusiasm you have makes your channel special. Plus, You’re are saving us a lot of time and money.

[@antonioantonio-no2uc]

THANKS, DAVID. ZUBIN MEHTA, GREAT CONDUCTOR

[@kevinm6790]

My favorite!!

[@magikarpolycarp]

Found a used copy of this album at a record store for $5 a few years ago. Didn’t really need another Mahler 5, but I bought it on a whim. And WOW it blew me away, gotta be the best brass playing for this work on disc.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Mehta really was a fine Mahlerian. His 2nd with Vienna is one of the "greatest recording evaaahhhh!" His 3rd with LA is one of the better ones out there. And his 5th with LA is pretty amazing as well. Just the opening trumpet call, Thomas Stevens was every bit the equal of the legendary Bud Herseth. I still return to Mehta's LA recording quite often.

[@benjamingreenfield9569]

His LA 1st is one of the great firsts!

[@smithpm81]

love Mahler

[@jdistler2]

What I'd like to see is the New York Philharmonic's own label bring out a box of Mehta's best broadcasts, in the same way that they did the live Bernstein box. There are are least several fabulous Mahler 9s that were broadcast (I had these on cassette ages ago), the Messiaen Turangalila Symphony with the Loriod sisters (and Messiaen in the audience) from 1988, the wonderful Joseph Marx Romantic Piano Concerto with Jorge Bolet on great form in 1982, Carter's Variations for Orchestra, Copland's A Quiet City....it would be possible, but one has to really dig into the archive.

[@murraylow4523]

Yes, Jed. I’m packing things to move and was trying to find a small box big enough for all those live concertgebouw recordings the orchestra documented - easily 200 discs I suppose. Uneven, but often marvellous and I’m struck by how other great orchestras haven’t done similar - economics I suppose. It’s the only self-documentation I’m aware of on that scale. You would think the New York Phil could do it - but their previous attempt at such rather pales in comparison to the Amsterdam effort. So we need some American can do here!

[@dmntuba]

This is truly a GREAT recording. I do love/adore it, but his LA recording is just so yummy 👍 Thanks for bringing it up after those last boxsets...you are a class act.

[@danielwomer]

Agreed. This is my favorite recording of Mahler's 5th.

[@HoraceInExile]

Another reason I am so impressed when someone like Payare seems to get it so correct right out of the gate.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sinopoli also started his cycle with a fine 5th, but it was all downhill from there.

[@hornmusiker]

Thanks for the recommendation! I hadn't gotten to this one before, but the 5th is one of my favorite pieces of all time. I've listened to some snippets of this recording and have quite enjoyed it, so I'll have to give the whole thing a listen later today. My favorite recording still remains Abbado with Chicago, although I'm probably a bit biased as I studied with Dale Clevenger (the principal horn) for several years before his passing. Currently working my way through some of the complete symphony sets and have really enjoyed the 5ths by Gielen, Chailly, Solti (even if the cycle as a whole isn't stellar), and Thomas (again, maybe a bit biased here because of the horn section, which is one of my favorites). The piece really is just a horn player's dream, and the one time I was able to perform it is such a treasured experience. Hopefully more times in the future...

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

Another great Mahler 5 (which I actually like a bit better than Mehta/NYPO) is Levine / Philadelphia. The 5th, I think more than any of Mahler's other symphonies (except perhaps the 9th, which is slower, more tediously repetitive, and more depressing, and hence not something I listen to nearly as often) is fundamentally a lean, taut work of polyphony. RCA's Levine / Philadelphia recording brings that out better than any other I know of, while stripping away other qualities that might distract from that. The bass is not particularly strong or boomy, but (I know from a bit of experience mixing rock and pop music) boomy bass and low-mid means muddiness and death to clarity. (It's common practice to put pretty much every instrument other than kick drum and bass guitar through a high-pass filter set as high as it can for that track without too significantly affecting the sound, just to reduce the energy in that low-mid range to increase clarity.) The highs are also not particularly sparkling, but mid-range is where all the musical data of interest lies, and that's what's emphasized (though smoothly throughout the range and without any harshness); too much high-end sizzle could also be distracting. Recorded in the now-demolished Scottish Rite Cathedral (Town Hall), the sound is on the dry side, and probably augmented by numerous spot mics (particularly in the woodwinds, which are unnaturally loud at times, but that's what it takes to balance and clarify the polyphony, and it sounds right if you're not comparing to how it "should" sound from a seat in the concert hall). And of course, reverberation is another death-to-clarity characteristic, so a drier sound helps. But this is the Philadelphia Orchestra we're talking about, an orchestra that developed (with the help of Stokowski and Ormandy) a thick, lush (but clearly-delineated) sound as a result of playing in a dry hall (the Academy of Music) which they needed to fill. So the sound of the orchestra is very pleasing to listen to at all times. The recording also isn't excessively dynamic, meaning it's always comfortable to listen to. There are just a few very quiet moments, but they're still clearly audible, and usually quite brief. Yet, the subtle dynamic changes are all clearly delineated. Yes, you can hear and feel when it's loud; it's exciting, but it's not so much louder than the rest as to be at all uncomfortable to listen to in any environment. Similarly with the soundstage. It's not an extremely spacious sounding recording, but there is very clear left-to-right delineation of each section of the orchestra, greatly aiding separation of the polyphonic lines. It's really the perfect marriage of brilliantly-apt interpretation, fabulous orchestral playing from all instruments, an appropriate acoustic, and intelligent decisions about how to capture and mix the sound to best present the unique qualities of this symphony. It's one of those rare recordings that when I finish listening to it, I really just want to start it all over and listen to it again.

[@jerrygennaro9732]

Hadn't thought of this before you mentioned it but Mehta's five commercial releases with the NYPhil for Teldec were all recorded at Manhattan Center produced by Max Wilcox. Reminds me of a dear, now departed, friend who said (facetiously, for sure) there were no great (conductors; orchestras; or whatever) only great halls.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

And great producers. Max stood with the best and I felt honored to know him.

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

Astonishing performance! Along with levine/philly the greatest achievements by US orchestras on Mahler 5th!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'd add 5ths with Chicago and Solti (his first one) Abbado and Barenboim.

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

Agree about Levine / Philadelphia! That remains my favorite (I still say with a great deal of confidence, having just listened to Mehta/NYPO out of curiosity).

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

@@DavesClassicalGuide yes, sorry for forgetting Solti!

[@abrain]

Freindds in LA who attended his recent Gurrelieder reported that it was terrific.

[@sixergixer]

I'm fairly new to this channel but have been watching quite a few of these videos in that short amount of time. [They've all been fascinating, btw!] One of the chiefest things I've learned is how much better most orchestras are than their conductors. I mean, in a general sense of course, but yeah, conductors tend to get put up on pedestals (by the marketing people and journalists out to sell the marketing) and that gives them a near-mythical status to folks like me who may not know otherwise. It's been refreshing hearing you talk about orchestras being good enough to do whatever mediocre bs conductors tell them to, because they're so much better than those conductors, they can just do it! But then that gets tempered by comments like the one in this vid where the Berliners can't do good Mahler without a good Mahler conductor to drive them. It's been really eye opening. Thanks, Dave!

[@davidmayhew8083]

I'm looking forward to hearing this. I also really liked Sinopoli:s fifth. I recently saw a clip of Blomdstadt conducting Mahler's ninth. He's 97 ? and sitting down conducting. From the little bit of what I heard, it was amazing. Just saying...

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

I believe Blomstedt only began sitting while conducting recently; he was conducting standing up within the last few years, or maybe it's intermittent depending on how he feels. (Of course Blomstedt has a SMASHING Mahler 2 from San Francisco, easily my favorite, but I think it's the only Mahler he ever released a commercial recording of, sadly. I have a feeling he'd have done 5 very well also.) My favorite Mahler 5 by a long shot is Levine / Philadelphia.

[@davidmayhew8083]

@ModusVivendiMedia thanx. I'll definitely listen. I hope they release a Blomdstedt ninth.

[@allthisuselessbeauty-kr7]

That Sinopoli 5th with the Philharmonia is indeed a great one - the quiet yearning section in the fiery second movement is magical and beatifully realised. The finale movement is also stunningly energetic. I could go on!! Great stuff!!

[@johnhowes7133]

What you say about Mehta is actually very poignant. I saw him a few times, but he didn't really grab me the way someone like Karajan, who had overwhelming charisma. Mehta really was a victim of bad recording technology and inadequate management. I agree this recording is tremendous. Is it the absolute greatest? I think there are some others that are up there as well. I'm thinking of Myung-Whun Chung's with the Seoul Philharmonic or Daniel Barenboim's with the Chicago Symphony.

[@wappingbpy]

Any love for the Charles Mackerras recording on EMI with the RLPO?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sure. It's first-rate.

[@heatherharrison264]

Years ago, I found Mahler's Fifth harder to get into than some of the others, even though it is one of the first that I encountered. Recordings are a problem here; there seem to be a lot out there that don't quite realize the full potential of this music. This one isn't on my hard drive, but I know of it. I wonder if one of my friends had it. Presto has it for only $9 for a FLAC download, but it is a different release, on the Apex label. I see from another comment that Dave has confirmed that it is the same recording. I've just bought it, and it is downloading as I finish typing this comment. I love digital downloads - I want something, and I can have it immediately.

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

I can see what you mean about not getting into Mahler 5 from a lot of other recordings, but I can't imagine that being a problem with Levine / Philadelphia (still my favorite recording of this). The 5th, I think more than any of Mahler's other symphonies (except perhaps the 9th, which is slower, more tediously repetitive, and more depressing, and hence not something I listen to nearly as often) is fundamentally a lean, taut work of polyphony. RCA's Levine / Philadelphia recording brings that out better than any other I know of, while stripping away other qualities that might distract from that. The bass is not particularly strong or boomy, but (I know from a bit of experience mixing rock and pop music) boomy bass and low-mid means muddiness and death to clarity. (It's common practice to put pretty much every instrument other than kick drum and bass guitar through a high-pass filter set as high as it can for that track without too significantly affecting the sound, just to reduce the energy in that low-mid range to increase clarity.) The highs are also not particularly sparkling, but mid-range is where all the musical data of interest lies, and that's what's emphasized (though smoothly throughout the range and without any harshness); too much high-end sizzle could also be distracting. Recorded in the now-demolished Scottish Rite Cathedral (Town Hall), the sound is on the dry side, and probably augmented by numerous spot mics (particularly in the woodwinds, which are unnaturally loud at times, but that's what it takes to balance and clarify the polyphony, and it sounds right if you're not comparing to how it "should" sound from a seat in the concert hall). And of course, reverberation is another death-to-clarity characteristic, so a drier sound helps. But this is the Philadelphia Orchestra we're talking about, an orchestra that developed (with the help of Stokowski and Ormandy) a thick, lush (but clearly-delineated) sound as a result of playing in a dry hall (the Academy of Music) which they needed to fill. So the sound of the orchestra is very pleasing to listen to at all times. The recording also isn't excessively dynamic, meaning it's always comfortable to listen to. There are just a few very quiet moments, but they're still clearly audible, and usually quite brief. Yet, the subtle dynamic changes are all clearly delineated. Yes, you can hear and feel when it's loud; it's exciting, but it's not so much louder than the rest as to be at all uncomfortable to listen to in any environment. Similarly with the soundstage. It's not an extremely spacious sounding recording, but there is very clear left-to-right delineation of each section of the orchestra, greatly aiding separation of the polyphonic lines. It's really the perfect marriage of brilliantly-apt interpretation, fabulous orchestral playing from all instruments, an appropriate acoustic, and intelligent decisions about how to capture and mix the sound to best present the unique qualities of this symphony. It's one of those rare recordings that when I finish listening to it, I really just want to start it all over and listen to it again.

[@bombayteddy]

Mehta is coming home to his native Bombay (Mumbai) next month to conduct the Symphony Orchestra of India in the Mahler 5 and other works. By the way, isnt the Barbirolli performance widely considered “the greatest recording ever” of this symphony?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, it's not. But it's up there.

[@jjquinn2004]

Greetings from Pune, India. I attended Mehta’s performance in last August in Mumbai. I’m thinking about attending Mahler’s and Hayden’s performance on 1st February.

[@bombayteddy]

Make sure you book well in advance! By the way, there is a review of Mehta’s Richard Strauss concert available on Seen and Heard International.

[@indranilpoddar7195]

@@jjquinn2004Unfortunately they changed the program to Brahms 1 and Tchaikovsky 4…both of which Z can do in his sleep…Anyway attending the first two concerts…his all Strauss concert in 2024 with the SOI was superb…what brass playing by the SOI

[@bombayteddy]

@@indranilpoddar7195 there is a review of the R. Strauss concert on Seen and Heard International. They changed the program of which concert?

[@williamevans9426]

Is this the same recording as that available on the UK's budget 'Apex' label? (It's the only version by Mehta/New York Phil listed on Qobuz.) Thank you!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes.

[@williamevans9426]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you!

[@earrame1508]

Great informative video, as usual. May I ask you a question: what do you think (if you have an opinion) of the complete works of Bach released by Brilliant Classics? Is it worth listening ?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I honestly don't remember everything that's in it so I can't give you a firm answer. My recollection, not surprisingly, is that it was mostly very good, but that's not saying much and I haven't looked into it in a long while. Although I have it, and even know where it is, I tend to use the Haenssler and Warner Editions as my points of reference. It could be that others here who are bigger Bach fans could chime in.

[@dizwell]

@@DavesClassicalGuide The Belder keyboard works are, I think, amongst the best of their kind. The real drawback of the Brilliant set is the cantatas: Leusink's boys sound very, very 'hooty' to me, and I wouldn't recommend them. It sounds on the whole as if the cycle was thrown together in a hurry, and it sounds quite rough (compared, say, to Suzuki's elegant approach). There are exceptions: Leusink's BWV 127 is my all-time favourite. But the nuggets are few and far between. The non-cantata recordings are generally very good, though. As I say, Belder on the keyboard; also the lute works.

[@stephenbates5237]

I saw a copy of that edition (blue box) brand new on EBay for $93. Just yesterday… yes I have a copy but for that price it becomes sometime to pursue. I have this Mahler 5 in the Mehta box. Shall give it a spin. Thank you.

[@ftumschk]

@@dizwell Seconded. I bought the Leusink cantatas on CD years ago, and whilst it's a fine effort, the hooty choirboys are a bit of a drawback, and tbh the orchestral aspects aren't as good as (say) Suzuki or Koopman. Luckily, there's a Brilliant Classics "box" of Belder's recordings of the keyboard works available at a silly price on 7digital, and worth getting on its own as a download.

[@murraylow4523]

Echoing others, I have heard the cantatas (and let’s face it they are going to take up the biggest bit of the box) and it’s not even mostly the chorus that eventually bothered me: some of the soloists just can’t deliver the very difficult material adequately. I don’t know what Hanssler are charging for their equivalent these days but I’d have thought that was a better bet for ‘complete’ Bach, and the keyboard works there are very interestingly and well done.

[@davidcramer9484]

Dave-what about Mehta in his time with the Isreal Philaharmonic in recordings? What were his best recordings with that orchestra?

[@Bachback]

I have always struggled with the Mahler 5. Perhaps I have just been listening to bad recordings. Time to check out Mehta and the New York Philharmonic.

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

And Levine / Philadelphia! (which I still like even better than Mehta / NYPO for this). The 5th, I think more than any of Mahler's other symphonies (except perhaps the 9th, which is slower, more tediously repetitive, and more depressing, and hence not something I listen to nearly as often) is fundamentally a lean, taut work of polyphony. RCA's Levine / Philadelphia recording brings that out better than any other I know of, while stripping away other qualities that might distract from that. The bass is not particularly strong or boomy, but (I know from a bit of experience mixing rock and pop music) boomy bass and low-mid means muddiness and death to clarity. (It's common practice to put pretty much every instrument other than kick drum and bass guitar through a high-pass filter set as high as it can for that track without too significantly affecting the sound, just to reduce the energy in that low-mid range to increase clarity.) The highs are also not particularly sparkling, but mid-range is where all the musical data of interest lies, and that's what's emphasized (though smoothly throughout the range and without any harshness); too much high-end sizzle could also be distracting. Recorded in the now-demolished Scottish Rite Cathedral (Town Hall), the sound is on the dry side, and probably augmented by numerous spot mics (particularly in the woodwinds, which are unnaturally loud at times, but that's what it takes to balance and clarify the polyphony, and it sounds right if you're not comparing to how it "should" sound from a seat in the concert hall). And of course, reverberation is another death-to-clarity characteristic, so a drier sound helps. But this is the Philadelphia Orchestra we're talking about, an orchestra that developed (with the help of Stokowski and Ormandy) a thick, lush (but clearly-delineated) sound as a result of playing in a dry hall (the Academy of Music) which they needed to fill. So the sound of the orchestra is very pleasing to listen to at all times. The recording also isn't excessively dynamic, meaning it's always comfortable to listen to. There are just a few very quiet moments, but they're still clearly audible, and usually quite brief. Yet, the subtle dynamic changes are all clearly delineated. Yes, you can hear and feel when it's loud; it's exciting, but it's not so much louder than the rest as to be at all uncomfortable to listen to in any environment. Similarly with the soundstage. It's not an extremely spacious sounding recording, but there is very clear left-to-right delineation of each section of the orchestra, greatly aiding separation of the polyphonic lines. It's really the perfect marriage of brilliantly-apt interpretation, fabulous orchestral playing from all instruments, an appropriate acoustic, and intelligent decisions about how to capture and mix the sound to best present the unique qualities of this symphony. It's one of those rare recordings that when I finish listening to it, I really just want to start it all over and listen to it again.

[@canarinis]

Hi Dave, Mehta recorded it only once with New York in 1990, is that correct?

[@josecarmona9168]

Before that, he recorded the 5th with Los Angeles for Decca.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Correct.

[@lokomateo]

@@josecarmona9168 I've always enjoyed that LA Phil recording, so looking forward to the NYPO recording with a different set of players

[@nicolapascoli4580]

I prefer the recording with Los Angeles; but also this one is very good

[@grey.knight]

Agreed ​@@nicolapascoli4580