The Grooming Panic of the 1980s [Long Shorts]

[@JonTripp115]

"Pictures of gay lovers" = two blokes at the breakfast table

[@makarabaduk1754]

It was the presence of a box of Sugar Puffs that caused the problem...

[@justinfleming5119]

I mean, if it were a portrait of a 1950s nuclear family at the breakfast table, you'd have a whole, lurid narrative of benzadrine adiction, abuse and partiarchal oppression to ascribe to it.

[@dombo813]

Wait we could have had gay sports day? Fucking tories ruining everything again.

[@user-sd3ik9rt6d]

It would have been..... FABULOUS

[@AnEmu404]

They can’t stop us, i had gay sports day anyway! We were supposed to sit in houses on the field but some of us just congregated and hid our ties at the back and drew rainbows on ourselves with highlighters pens one summer. Good times, good times

[@crow_feather]

You're absolutely right! That does it! I'm advocating for a gay sports day during Pride Month here in the States! I don't care what the Tories have to say on the matter! In fact, I'll thank them for giving me the idea!

[@FOJO27]

Gay Olympics has been around for decades 😊

[@amandagrayson389]

I am an old lesbian and I live in Central Texas. In the 80s, I was already married to my spouse (a woman) and having babies (2). There were very few books for children about gay families. But when my daughter was five, we found Jenny Lives with Eric and Martin. For us, this was a marvelous book. It showed a little girl living with her dads and had a clear explanation of what being gay was and why some people didn’t like gay people (fear). My daughter is now 40. Not too long ago she asked me if I still had Jenny Lives with Eric and Martin. I told her I did. She told me how important that book had been for her because when we read it, she knew her situation was real. In the 80s, living in Austin, she did not know anyone that had two moms. So this book was very important to her. I am glad I still have it.

[@beebeelicious]

❤️

[@personperson.7744]

If only we had spent more time worrying about the grooming from tv presenters in the 80s rather than gay people

[@somethingfunny6867]

jimmy savil was bi. and was a powerful media influencer so ironically it proves the scaremongering correct to some extent.

[@Eas697]

@somethingfunny6867 no it doesn’t. It proves that people in power will abuse it. Savile being bi has nothing to do with him being a pedo. It's about power, not sexuality.

[@alexjeffrey3981]

And those same conservative mps like Leon Brittan and Peter Morrison who were actively committing CSA

[@somethingfunny6867]

@@Eas697 its the same problem with the grooming gang investigations. if you invesigated and catch actual wrongdooers you prove the 'X' right. 'i want my side to win so will let them do something evil' that is how jimmy savil had power. and to the neutral observer it can appear as a conspiracy. Hanlon's razor is a useful place to grow understanding of this phenomenon.

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

@@alexjeffrey3981I thought the Brittan case was debunked?

[@rhiwright]

At school during Section 28, and my school actually found a way round it. During one lesson where we were doing sex ed, some 6th formers came to assist the teacher for some reason. Halfway through the lesson, the teacher needed to step out, she'd forgotten some unspecified things for the lesson. Oh no! I guess the 6th formers will have to cover for her for a few minutes. Those 6th formers then taught us about the stuff she wasn't legally allowed to. Funny how it took her like half the lesson to get the stuff she'd forgotten.

[@meala23]

Wow, that's very cool! What did the sixth formers talk about?

[@rhiwright]

It was a long time ago, we're talking decades. I don't clearly remember the content, just the incident. Probably boiled down to "some people are gay, and that's normal"

[@brianedwards7142]

Clever girl. 🦖

[@deanallenjones]

Section 28 was horrific. I remember kids in school name calling, using gay as an insult. Privately my teacher told me he wished he could say "what if he was, so what" but that could been seen as a breach of section 28. There was of course way more abuse carried out by the respectable church than any other group. And I always get angry when I hear of Thatcher telling people how to raise their kids. My friend has two dads and you know what, he hasn't been charged with organizing a coup and as a result banned from entering the USA, unlike her son. Just saying.

[@user-jn8wi3vf8q]

I hope it doesn't come back

[@stewartellinson8846]

It still happens. it happened before then. We still discipline pupils for homophobic language and i can remember using it myself as a child in the seventies (not that i really knew what it meant). the Tories did weaponise it though, just as they weaponise attacks on any minority they can get away with.

[@legateelizabeth]

Y'know the funny thing is by the time you hit the 2000's, when I was in school, kids were still using 'gay' as an insult, but kids would fire back with 'so what if I am?' because we were starting to get more acceptance about that sort of thing. And so they'd go "Oh, well that's so straight then!". It's such silly things kids do.

[@MacroAggressor]

@@legateelizabeth Yep... and now racism and such are coming back because everyone's constantly pointing fingers and accusing people.

[@andrewsutherland7913]

When I was a dumb teenager at school in the Section 28 years one of my teachers explained to the class that he would miss the next lesson to attend a friend's funeral and that he had lost a lot of friends over the last decade. It was not until many years later that I realised what he meant and that he could of been fired for saying it.

[@No0neAtAll]

Ah yes another lesson for Florida and the US GOP in "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[@Mike-kw5xv]

We in the US sadly don't need any lessons from the UK. We have plenty of our own nearly identical issues to draw from lol.

[@valivali8104]

They don’t want to learn, they don’t care about well-being of people, only power.

[@MrLoftyDreams]

​@@valivali8104well put❤

[@Call-me-Al]

The lessons they would learn is the exact opposite of the ones sane people would...

[@theraven6836]

I was about to comment on this then saw your post. Yeah, I’m Florida where both rents and Hurricane insurance are unaffordable by many, where our school systems are under performing, and where sea level rise will inundate the entire bottom half of the state our government is focused on The Gays. Sigh.

[@daanwilmer]

As vile as it was, seeing the similarities between homophobia in the 80s and now gives me hope. Hope that this movement comes in waves, and we can beat this wave like the wave before, and come out more progressive, more inclusive, and more kind.

[@dombo813]

We can hope, but today isn't exactly the same as last time. We're quite a bit financially worse off now than we were then and there's no indication that's going to change - in fact, it looks set to get worse. There's also social media now and everything that entails. The chance of the bigotry and fascism reaching the critical mass necessary to not die out again is higher this time.

[@lizardlegend42]

​@@dombo813 As bad as things are now what suggests to you that people are on the whole worse off than during the 1980s under Thatcher?

[@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980]

​@@lizardlegend42 Try in the 80's you stood an outside chance of being able. To buy a house if you were in the middle class. Now unless you're a member of the 1% you haven't got a prayer of ever owing a house. Even if someone passes on & leaves you one. Death duties & other taxes, will force you to sell up. Because you can't afford to pay them & keep the house.

[@lizardlegend42]

@@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980 That's a pretty big "if" though considering much fewer people were middle class. Unemployment reached 11% in 1984, compared to the still unfortunately high but incomparible 4% in the UK now.

[@JonBogdanove]

How strange to see you treat the late 1980s as history! It feels so recent to me. The grooming panic of the 1980s doesn’t seem at all distinct from present right wing culture. It feels like just more of the same. I guess I’m old.

[@mymo_in_Bb]

i'd say technically everything in the past is history

[@Brasswatchman]

Of course it's not distinct. It's all the same damn playbook: make life miserable for a minority and reap the profits at the ballot box.

[@guymontag2948]

For perspective, WWII was as long ago then as the 80s are now.

[@magnushultgrenhtc]

Quite. It's not distinct because they never stopped the persecution, they just ever so slightly shifted it.

[@answers_to_penguin]

In school, the history books have neat chapter breaks. Part of growing up is realising that those breaks don’t appear in the world. It’s relentless. Honestly, I can just about remember the 90s but I already find it all exhausting.

[@Brasswatchman]

Oh, THAT kind of grooming panic. For a second, I was hoping this was gonna be about Victorian moustache standards or something.

[@behemoth5344]

That was the Hipster Age of the 2010s. Victorian people were grooming them staches before it was cool, though.

[@suburbanindie]

So since they lost the stance on gay and lesbian rights, they moved onto trans with the exact same language

[@ajchapeliere]

"First they came for the communists" - Martin Niemöller If there's anything encouraging in this mess, it's that the bigots seem to be losing ground overall. They lack the clout and public support to target progressively larger minorities/groups and as long as we're not asleep at the wheel, we can all speak up. My community recently recalled a school board member for her anti-trans nonsense. The most generous interpretation I could offer for her statements amounts to "I'm afraid kids will be pressured into the identity so I won't affirm that trans kids should be protected" Apparently peer pressure to be trans is the only peer pressure that exists as far as her rhetoric went, and I'm glad the community saw through her nonsense.

[@feltfrog]

yes

[@justinfleming5119]

Not quite. "Conservatism" just works that way, with the purpose of preserving the prior revolution in place until the next.

[@suburbanindie]

@@justinfleming5119 That's a lot of words to say "white supremacy"

[@justinfleming5119]

@@suburbanindie Hold on, if preserving the prior revolution is "white supremacy", then the revolution itself must've been super-duper "white supremacy". Revolutionaries are trailblazers in the field of "white supremacy". I don't think you thought your reply through. The word for randomly spewing political jargon as a method of unthinking, ritualistic denunciation is "duckspeak".

[@unclenogbad1509]

"An inalienable right be Gay." Yes. Example of a good phrase in the wrong hands.

[@spiritmuse]

This is how you do censorship. Make a law that is so ambiguous that no one knows where the actual lines are, so people play it safe and self-censor to the extreme to avoid even the possibility of falling foul of that law. So much more effective than trying to control everything explicitly.

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

Hence Lord Farquad's vague wording in the laws he's had passed in Florida. Took a while for the courts to actually sort it out, and I'm still not convinced that it's been resolved.

[@sueshaw84]

I grew up with Section 28 and, while it was abolished in 2003, in Kent, local government continued to enforce their own version of it which was only quashed in 2010 by the Equalities Act. Teachers encouraged children in my all girls school not to hold hands, and were stopped from any activity that could be considered 'peculiar '. It's incredible to see how far we've come in just the last decade or so.

[@thistle3]

Ironically, conservative outrage over a queer book was how I found out about queer people. It was 2012. I had never had access to a gay book (and wouldn't for several years). But I avidly followed the outpouring of anti-gay and anti-trans opinion pieces in my parents' conservative morning newspaper, and that's how I found out that there were others like me.

[@JoeSmith-qy6qo]

oh wow. great steak btw edit: i said great steak because the rules said pretend it’s a dinner party

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

@@JoeSmith-qy6qo Banned book lists have some of the best ones on them.

[@JoeSmith-qy6qo]

@@eldorados_lost_searcher australia’s ones are crazy. there’s like 1984 on there i’m pretty sure

[@av_oid]

@@JoeSmith-qy6qo1984 is the “textbook” some of the left now follow. Redefining words (gender) and thoughtcrime being obvious examples.

[@forgenorman3025]

@@av_oid Bull. Stop lying, we're sick of it and we all see through it.

[@annecoombes8339]

Gay then, trans now, plus ça change...

[@davidmurrell5143]

The worrying/sad thing is almost the exact same wording is getting used today, they might have moved a couple letters down, but the core of the rhetoric is still the same.

[@LeBonkJordan]

Bigots are notoriously uncreative.

[@devingross8805]

I believe long shorts are usually just called pants

[@devingross8805]

Gay rights 🏳‍🌈

[@EricaGamet]

*trousers

[@franzjayne672]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@emilyaw3831]

Where I'm from, they're called capris. Maybe it's a British thing to call them long shorts?

[@bweepysquishy]

reading these comments it looks like the grooming panic never ended 🥲

[@annaphallactic]

Nope, it just mutated 😢

[@shannonmaunder7904]

I'm still pondering "gay sports". If those existed, would I finally have had the chance to just once do well in that class?

[@WillowMoon2.0]

What's most upsetting is how none of these quotes would sound out of place in America today, forty years later. 😞

[@roowyrm9576]

I was training as a teacher during the run-up to section 28. I took part in a TV debate about it, and, accidentally, managed to come out during that.

[@dfpguitar]

Did you come out on TV?

[@Daelyah]

So much hate and scapegoating, and it never ends. Thanks for this, J Draper. The scapegoat may have changed, over here in the US, but the hate remains the same.

[@alessandrasmith339]

My brain saw the title and thought, “was there a hairbrush shortage? Was there a fearmongering tactic happening to get people to buy more body spray??”

[@BlackCanary87]

Haha, same! I thought there was a panic about big eighties hair and hairspray destroying brain cells or something.

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

You gotta love it when bigots not only out themselves, but increase engagement on a topic that they disagree with.

[@justinfleming5119]

I'm happy to discuss it. You don't think people should engage in disagreement?

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

@@justinfleming5119 I think they should. What are your opinions on the topic in the video?

[@goingslowlynowhere]

@@eldorados_lost_searcher Some of them are enthusiastic enough to even end up on my ridiculously tiny channel, yelling under my dinner 😂 I ended up deleting it though, did not want to have that on there with zero context.

[@stoutyyyy]

⁠@@justinfleming5119people shouldn’t presume to take a position on topics about which they know nothing.

[@tgbluewolf]

@@stoutyyyy How will they learn if they aren't exposed to being wrong? Besides, how would the internet exist if people didn't express their opinions on things they don't know about? 🤣

[@MyTv-]

With the current infected debate around trans people. It’s good to remember the sick the debate around homosexuality. Now as then it’s about stop hurting decent people. Not about giving predators right. Big thanks to miss J.Draper for reminding us!

[@GamblingTimeKaraoke]

For one naive moment I thought this was going to be about personal hygeine. :( Why are people so terrible...

[@gijoel]

Meanwhile Jimmy Savile, Gary Glitter, Rolf Harris, Max Clifford, and others slept peacefully in their beds.

[@Earhairy]

"Meanwhile Jimmy Savile, Gary Glitter, Rolf Harris, Max Clifford, and others slept peacefully in their beds." Savile also slept soundly in a bed provided for him by Margaret Thatcher at Chequers, when he was invited as a guest on numerous New Year's Eves.

[@gijoel]

@@EarhairyYeah, it's easy to forget how tight he was with the Tories.

[@alexgreenwood404]

Thanks Jenny for bringing this up. Especially with the vile Cass report just released and what that's feeding into

[@tgbluewolf]

I've only seen a couple articles so far but it seems to just be saying that there isn't enough science yet. Hasn't science been especially important in the past few years, and following it been commendable? Sure, people will take the report the way they want to, but is it itself *really* "vile"?

[@spiritmuse]

@@tgbluewolf It does say that. However, the reason why it's saying there isn't enough science yet is that it's dismissing about 95% of the science that exists. With the flimsy excuse that only "double-blind" studies should be accepted. Even though 1) double-blind studies aren't necessary or even recommended here and would in fact potentially be unethical and 2) some of the studies they do accept are also not double-blind - and coincidentally those studies found results that align with the anti-trans agenda.

[@adambrien896]

It's so sad. In another 40 years will we still need to fight this fight?

[@harryfogle9658]

Thanks this does make sense. My Mom was accepting when I came out but she couldn't figure out why I waited for so long to tell her. It was because when I tested the waters she immediately went on this indoctrination rant. There must have been something similar state side.

[@amandah2866]

It blows my mind that this sort of moral panic is seen time and time again in history and yet STILL happens.

[@alexandrajay2001]

the 80s in Britain is one of my history strong points, and it has been striking me for years how similar the gay panic of then is being echoed now. the don't say gay bills in america, teachers being instructed to out trans students in the UK, in general the way trans people are spoken about as though they want to indoctrinate children simply by existing. it's worrying, considering the other major factors of Britain in the 80s were the terribly handled AIDs epidemic and strikers and protestors clashing with police, right after we've had the mishandled covid pandemic, rail and nhs workers going on strike, and the government putting restrictions on protesting. it's a chilling reminder that time doesn't always mean progress, and if you want things to move forward you need to fight for it, because the people who want to go back to then certainly are. as well as the book shown in this video, the book Outrageous! by Paul Baker is all about the fight for LGBT+ education in the 1980s.

[@reezdog]

Meanwhile, Jimmy Saval was running rampant under their noses.

[@TheParadiseParadox]

Doesn't that demonstrate that there actually is a problem

[@forgenorman3025]

@@TheParadiseParadox Not with queer people, no.

[@forgenorman3025]

@@TheParadiseParadox Not with gay people, no.

[@Brasswatchman]

​@@TheParadiseParadox It demonstrates how dogshit the people who run moral panics are at spotting the real problems when they exist. Because news flash: it's never actually about protecting kids. It's about conservatives getting and keeping power.

[@Brasswatchman]

Didn't Thatcher and certain conservative MPs even cover for him?

[@clarissathompson]

Jeez, the more things change the more they stay the same

[@reginaldamoah8608]

It's incredibly useful to be reminded of our history because even if it doesn't repeat it usually rhymes with the present.

[@MatrixEvolution17]

40 years later nothing has really changed, now politicians just throw around the word "woke"

[@infpdreams]

Crazy to imagine that a phrase referencing open-mindedness is now used the way it is by people who can barely define it. They say it so much, they sound like ducks quacking.

[@Abominatrix650]

@@infpdreams They don't even know what it means! It's like they heard the younger discriminates say it and now they think it means "loony lefty" or something

[@tgbluewolf]

@@infpdreams People have ignored the maxim to "not be so open-minded that your brain falls out" (attributed to multiple people, as far as I can tell). THAT'S how it's defined by those who "overuse" it--it's not that they can't define it.

[@tgbluewolf]

@@Abominatrix650 Language is always getting changed. Like "gay" used to mean "merry, cheerful" (as in the song Deck the Halls, with the line "don we now our gay apparel"), and now means "romantically attracted to the same sex". Often, as in this example, a word might have multiple official meanings that don't seem to have anything to do with each other.

[@infpdreams]

@@tgbluewolf Nice wordplay to cover up intolerance.

[@Laurastar2009]

Section 28 is why I didn't realise I was bi until my mid twenties. I never knew bi was a thing until university, and even then I explained away my feelings for another few years. If I'd known younger that there was more than straight people and the hushed whispers of gays or lesbians, I might have realised my sexuality sooner. Section 28 was ended in the 2000s but it's had lasting effects. And it's sickening hearing all the same recycled rhetoric being used against trans people and discussions of gender nowadays.

[@mnbalfour1985]

It's a pity you didn't encounter Alfred Kinsey's research publications when you were a teenager. In Kinsey's books Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (1948) and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (1953) he explains bisexuality as well as homosexuality, and places them in relation to one another on a spectrum or sliding scale called the Kinsey scale by sexologists. Kinsey also worked out what percentage of the population are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual etc.

[@josephkarl2061]

"The Sun, ever classy" Ah Jenny, you've scaled the highest peak of sarcasm here. Well done 😂

[@capt.bart.roberts4975]

The Tories, ever caught up in their culture war fuckery.

[@LeBonkJordan]

To quote "The Alt-Right Playbook: The Cost of Doing Business": Fascism exists in a state of permanent conflict. Things like declaring an indefinite state of martial law, suspending elections, or executing members of government, are justified on the grounds that the people are in danger and need to be protected and mobilized. This isn’t unique to fascism: between the Cold War, the War on Drugs, and the War on Terror, the US has been in some form of ongoing conflict for the last three generations, *but:* you’ll note the Cold War didn’t end on a battlefield, it ended when the Soviet Union collapsed in on itself. Communism, terrorism, and drug dealing are patterns of behavior, and they wax and wane, often for reasons outside our control. Geopolitics may someday shift such that terrorism becomes less prevalent, or that lowers the demand for drugs. Communism can be fought with diplomacy and economic sanctions because communists can choose not to be communists anymore. And fascists have no use for soft power. To justify a military dictatorship, they need an opponent that won’t just go away on its own one day. It always come back to identity politics because Black people can’t stop being Black; theirs is a number that will not be reduced without the hard power of violence and displacement. Fascism begins by stealing populist targets from the Left: they focus on elites, corrupt businessmen, weak-willed politicians, subtly shifting focus away from leftist critique of systems to _types of people._ But, sooner or later, they settle on something unchangeable: race, gender, ethnicity, religious background. The bigotry is localized to the region’s existing prejudices: in Nazi Germany, it was Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Roma, Slavs, Black people, queer people, and people with disabilities; in fascist Italy, it was Slovenes until Mussolini invaded Libya and Ethiopia and so demonized their citizens as well; in the US, the Klan and the American Nazi Party targeted African-Americans, Jews, and Catholics, queer people, and immigrants; Spain under Franco tried to determine the _exact racial makeup_ of the Spanish people so they could cast out those with the “wrong mixture of bloods.” This is why the Far Right has gone all in on transphobia, by the way. It's joined Islamophobia on the outer rim of "acceptable bigotries". On some level they know trans folks aren’t just cis people in disguise, that desistance is rare and conversion therapy doesn’t work, because it trans people could just _stop being trans…_ they never would have picked them for an enemy.

[@vespelian]

The Daily Mail has been grooming on an industrial scale since 1896.

[@rosejustice]

I think here in America we’ve always had pockets of gay panic - isolated groups that, while changing in size to become larger or smaller depending on the national politics, the majority were able to tamp down their basest instincts. However it has currently gotten to a level I’ve never seen before and frankly am frightened of. I would like to believe that we would learn from history, however seeing how many supporters the Mango Mussolini has I don’t think we are capable of learning anything.

[@theemmjay5130]

"Mango Mussolini." I love it.

[@spiritmuse]

Can't learn from history if you're not taught history, sadly. And they're doing everything they can over there to make sure their kids are never taught history.

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

@@spiritmuse No kidding. I've been talking to my kid since he started school about history. It's funny, I'll casually drop some tidbit in the middle of a conversation, knowing that his curiosity will force him to ask what I mean, and then I'll launch into a thirty minute explanation on how Prohibition is why there's not much variety in the apples available at the grocery store. I also had to explain why there were walking skeletons in a world history video we watched, and the dangers of fearing people considered "other."

[@callnight1441]

They say fashion comes back around every 20 years...didnt know the same could be said for the groomer panic

[@Brasswatchman]

It never really left, just temporarily went dormant. And no doubt it's got the same exact people running it now, just with a slightly adjusted script.

[@BenJPas]

Thanks for the history reminder, J. Unfortunately, as a society, we've been here before, and these panics can ruin lives of people just trying to live and love. This is why history is important.

[@ReflectedMiles]

I know. It’s so bad it’s almost like drug dealers being incarcerated for what they do because people think that they influence life directions and the social acceptability of illicit drug use.

[@jaxweby4343]

it's really quite something that i (born after the new millenium, so didn't experience or know about this history) can watch this and perfectly mirror it to today. being trans, it hurts my soul that time seems to be a near perfect circle, but at least it might mean there's hope that things improve. thank you for shining a light on the past for someone who's lived without knowing it and without knowing these things are normal.

[@SAOS451316]

We failed to teach our history to the younger people, though not through lack of trying. I lived in America in NYC in the '50s to the '80s, born in Smolensk in the USSR. I was 14 when Stonewall happened and Stormé threw that famous shot glass. Of the gay scene I knew in the Bronx, two of us survived the AIDS epidemic. Just two. I was living as a gay man at the time and we owed everything to the lesbians. They took care of us; they protected and defended us. Now I'm an old and jaded transgender lesbian, but I'm still here. Let me tell you something about time. History is a spiral, not a circle. Whenever people start to be more accepted by society, the fash come out to try and stop if. They will lose only if we fight back. I could tell you all about the gay panic but I'm late enough as is.

[@Brasswatchman]

Yep. Just a heads up -- when it comes to conservatism, there really never is anything new under the sun. It's usually just some slight twist on an old script.

[@woodfur00]

What is gay sports day and where do I sign up

[@MrDrewseph]

I don't care about sports one bit but I was gonna say the same thing, sounds like fun

[@dyscotopia]

The sad thing is, that rather than being indoctrinated into homosexuality in the 80s, I was terrified of gay men... But Not thst they'd do anything untoward. My mother's gay friends were extremely nice, but of the possibility that too close contact, such as staying in a spare bedroom or using a spare toothbrush, would result in accidental AiDS.. The younger generations who've had Prep don't understand the fear and misinformation that went about around that virus

[@ashleybellofsydney]

From 1983-1996 Australia's Labor Party was in power. We almost had a Minister for Homosexual Affairs in 1988. While Europe and the United States were governed by conservatives, gay rights in Australia flourished in the '80's.

[@MrMuel1205]

Not in Queensland under Joh Bjelke-Petersen where the Liquor Act was amended to force licensees to evict suspected "deviants" amongst many other draconian policies, or Tasmania where homosexuality was only decriminalised in 1997.

[@charlotteb6450]

@@MrMuel1205 I just looked that up coz i thought there was no way tasmania criminalised homosexuality until 1997 but it's true??? How the hell is this not more talked about that's so incredibly recent!

[@jasonstormsong4940]

Hehe Minister “for Homosexual Affairs”, I’m not going to forget this one any time soon, nor all the others popping into my head now. How about a Minister for Heterosexual Affairs ey?

[@WillKemp]

​@@charlotteb6450yeah, and South Australia decriminalised homosexuality in 1975. Still not very long ago, but the first in Aus

[@leondown6869]

In Oz we had quite a kerfuffle over a kids tv show "Play School" when they showed a short video story of a child going to the zoo with her 2 mothers. Even the PM chimed in with his "opinion". Shock horror the end of civilisation. To quote Oz's greatest natural philosopher "We'll all be rooned" said Hanrahan.

[@frankryan2505]

Unfortunately things havent changed that much..The media lies when we had the gay marriage referendum here in australia a few years back were absolutely disgusting. I just cannot understand why certain people are obsessed with what other folk do behind closed doors, i have to wonder if it was an international gay panic as many places here had "gay bashing" as a sport and numerous unsolved murders involving young men who had a certain "lifestyle" Love this kind of content btw, the Lloyds bit was an eye opener. Loving

[@marjiscriven9657]

As if no child abuse has occurred with heterosexual people.

[@feltfrog]

@@MoonJumpingCowNo, no they aren’t. Get a bloody GRIP.

[@tgbluewolf]

I don't think anyone claims that. The point is, just because one thing is wrong, doesn't necessarily make the opposite right.

[@brianwarren2042]

This entire idea is based on the idiotic premise that a person's sexual orientation and gender identity is a matter of choice; a concept so asinine that no thinking, rational person would ever even consider it. And yet... here we are.

[@nomadMik]

The entire idea that it's anyone else's business anyhow is equally difficult to wrap my head around. It's pretty obvious that those MPs weren't getting enough (cw: Thatcher having sex) but in deSantis' case, it was clear who was actually engaging with people underage, and it was another politician in the same state!

[@MacroAggressor]

@@nomadMik Biden is from Pennsylvania.

[@MacroAggressor]

30% of Gen Z consider themselves LGBTQ, compared to 16% and 7% for Millenials and Boomers respectively. So your argument is this is purely an effect of nature, not nurture? Do you honestly believe that 14% of Millenials, and a _full _*_quarter_* of Boomers, are closeted LGBTQ? I'm entirely for individual choice and equal rights, but the intellectual dishonesty is obnoxious.

[@tjenadonn6158]

​@@MacroAggressorA good portion of LGBT elders were wiped out in a little thing called the AIDS pandemic. Before that there was the whole thing where even being openly and honestly L, G, B, and/or T wasn't even legal for a good number of centuries. Even now in many parts of the world, including in countries that identify as developed like the US and UK, being openly LGBT can pose significant risks to one's safety. Before 1995 the existence of planets outside of our solar system was still purely hypothetical. Since then we've identified thousands of exoplanets and mapped hundreds of them: we can even model the weather systems on these planets. Which seems more likely: A: The entirety of the field of astronomy, from the lowliest undergrad to the heads of NASA and ESA, is suffering from the same, incredibly consistent delusion? B: That all of these exoplanets only srarted popping into existence ex nihilo around 1995, which just happened to coincide witn the point where hunanity develoied technology that would be capable of detecting such planets? C: These exoplanets have always been out there, and we just weren't aware of them before now? I'm going to be generous and assume you have a grasp on object permanence: the idea that objects continue to exist even when you are not actively observing them. Given this reasonable human beings assume option C is true. New discoveries are not a result of people changing reality, but a result of our models of reality coming more into alignment with what reality actually is. Following this model, which seems most likely. Be honest with yourself. A: There's an Alphabet Mafia injecting kids with The Gay™ as part of some global conspiracy to [insert vague nefarious end goal here.] B: Woke mind virus. C: Humanity has always been gayer and transer than we've been previously led to believe, and people these days feel more comfortable being honest about it.

[@tuna5618]

@@MacroAggressor The anti-gay stigma is dying slowly so more people feel safe coming out of the closet. It is entirely possible and plausible that 1/4 of boomers are closeted queer people, but their internalised homophobia doesn't let them admit that.

[@dawntreader1247]

when i saw the title i thought this would be about a bunch of men suddenly realising their beards and hair were going unwashed and uncombed. 😂

[@minnesotasteve]

This video sponsored by manscape.

[@_Somsnosa_]

Same, my initial thought was about panic over 1980s hairstyles or body hair or something haha

[@feltfrog]

Oh boy the reactionaries that follow your channel are gonna *love* this one

[@YumeBlossom]

@@EdgyPuer Bruh, have you even watched the video??

[@Brasswatchman]

@@EdgyPuer That's bullshit now, and it was bullshit then.

[@feltfrog]

@@EdgyPuer Found one!

[@feltfrog]

Lmao he got banned and all his comments got deleted

[@Antipaxos_Nadja123]

While this is obviously horrendous, the fact that we've been through moral panics before and they've passed, and now look back on them with disgust that society could do something like that, at least gives some hope that the moral panic about trans people will also pass and we'll look back in a similar, disgusted way

[@evilgoose6768]

Once the right find some other group to acapegoat, the trans moral panic will be over

[@Antipaxos_Nadja123]

​​@@evilgoose6768 Sadly true, the people who are always misogynistic suddenly care about women's rights when trans people dare to suggest they deserve rights, people who neglected the North and Midlands suddenly care when they want to attack ethnic minorities, homophobes suddenly cloak transphobia as protecting gay, bi and pan people, it's their modus operandi, divide and rule Though the fact that the moral panics have passed in the past and they can only attack certain groups for so long before it becomes unacceptable and need a new scapegoat hopefully implies they'll run out of road

[@NonFatMead]

Whilst true (hopefully) the longer it sticks around, the more danger some already-vulnerable people are in. Dangerous right-wing politics 101: scapegoat a minority until you can't any more; then pick another.

[@Antipaxos_Nadja123]

@@NonFatMead Of course 100%, people's lives will be endangered by the hate they face, while it hopefully will pass with time, moral panics and hate do and have done real harm in the meantime, such as this panic then and transphobia now, though I do believe that as horrible as things are we can cling to the comfort that it will pass eventually, though of course it doesn't erase the suffering that has already happened and is currently going on

[@TheSunnyOne]

As a millennial trans woman, in the UK, who grew up under the stranglehold of Section 28 (literally got repealed the year i left school, so it was in effect for my entire education), thank you for this video. I'm terrified of leaving the house these days because of the anti-trans rhetoric being pushed across the globe. The looks & comments i receive when just shopping have increased in hostility, not to mention the daily suffering of internet use. More content like this helps, a lot.

[@EllieK_814]

From one trans woman to another, stay strong and keep living your life sister

[@TheSunnyOne]

@@EllieK_814 💝🏳️‍⚧️

[@shaeisgae8952]

I'm in Canada and a gen z'er, with the bills coming out rn it's pretty fuckin scary. I feel so horrible for the kids who have to grow up in a school system that is legally targetting them it's so awful. Things will get better though and we'll be safe, I really believe that. Anyway good luck girly lol

[@fionamoorcroft7]

Same people making up the same lies about gay men and trans women even now. It's getting worse, instead of better. Revolting.

[@Dandyfloss]

This all sounds incredibly familiar to anyone reading the news or social media these days... 😔

[@alanlittle4589]

And now it is repeating all over again with the Trans moral panic. I'm sick of humanity sometimes.

[@Brasswatchman]

Probably being run by the exact same people from the 80's and 90's in the background, no less.

[@recoveringsoul755]

Learn to recognize manipulative tactics, logical fallacies, and you'll start to see how so much information we get is trying to control our behavior and nudge us into one choice or another

[@Brasswatchman]

@@recoveringsoul755 You mean, the ones used by conservative politicians?

[@recoveringsoul755]

@@Brasswatchman all politicians, all advertising, the medical community the past few years, or maybe it's more big pharma. It's all around. For example, most parents use the triangulation tactic on their children around Christmas. "Be good or Santa won't bring you any gifts. He's always watching". Now that child isn't just up against their parents, it's parents AND Santa, a "person" they can't confront or question. Instead of one on one, the parent now has changed the odds in their favor by manipulating their child into believing that it's them against multiple others, one of whom has magical powers and is always watching. (Wear your mask, do it for grandma) is another example. It's not limited to one political group. Join the military, serve your country. It's everywhere.

[@Brasswatchman]

​@@recoveringsoul755 You say "all politicians." But which ones do YOU vote for? You'll forgive me if I'm a little suspicious of that line after it helped elect Trump. 🤨

[@tinyrogerts6449]

“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” - Gary Oldman (pretty sure)

[@michaelcosgrove5654]

I marched against Thatcher in the '70s. "Maggie Thatcher milk snatcher". Left the UK before she unleashed this in the '80s, did no know how bad it was. Thank you for educating me.

[@r_r_r_r]

Thank you! ❤️ As a non-binary person in the U.S., grateful you provided an historical perspective on these cycles of fear mongering. It’s weirdly comforting because it reminds me that we’ll get through this, like our community always does. And thanks to people like you, we’ll be wiser each time it circles back again.

[@jarancrane2462]

Is this the fucking reason I didn't even know that being gay is normal until i was in highschool? It's so goddamn lonely having no representation and being different from everyone else in ways you're not sure if you can or should explain. The first time I saw a gay character in media i literally cried. People that don't think representation is important haven't been alienated from a lack of it.

[@mitchyoung93]

@jarancrane2462 Being homosexual is literally not normal. It's like 4% of the population, so statistically an outlier. It's not the way we reproduce, so functionally not normal. I mean, whatever floats your boat but it isn't normal.

[@RuthBhmand]

@@mitchyoung93red hair is very few percentage of human population, so by your logic standards, not normal????

[@personperson.7744]

@@mitchyoung93I mean, 4% is pretty high so I’d say it’s not too uncommon

[@onbearfeet]

​@@mitchyoung93 Roughly 1% of humanity is Canadian. Is Canadian an abnormal thing to be?

[@StrangerNoises]

yes, that is the reason and the point. they actually believe[d] that kids only got gay [trans] by having the idea of such a thing promoted to them, by being indoctrinated with it. i don't know how many of them actually believed it vs those who found it convenient to believe it; frankly the difference is meaningless.

[@megan5867]

Saying that a book about a homosexual couple raising their child together is encouraging children into homosexuality is insane. Look at the media we show little girls, like the Little Mermaid! That movie literally promotes a young girl running away from home to go be with an older man, while only 14!

[@LeBonkJordan]

Makes sense when you consider which party is trying to keep child marriage legal in the US

[@rimut230]

And now they say this bs towards trans people. History may not repeat but it sure rhymes.

[@TJtheBee]

Came down here to comment this exact same thing. I'm a fine artist and about two months out from my exhibition about my gender. I am not-so-low-key terrified.

[@NovemberOrWhatever]

Looking at the comments section, it appears people these days have switched from moral panic about gay people to moral panic about trans people (though there's still plenty of the former)

[@EdgyPuer]

both are bad.

[@Vinemaple]

The moral panic, the self-righteous indignation, is the whole point. It's addicting, and it rarely matters what it's about. They always find something to be outraged about.

[@EdgyPuer]

@@Vinemaple Yeah I know Woke people are so annoying.

[@danielcrafter9349]

​@@EdgyPuer- "woke"

[@justinfleming5119]

@@danielcrafter9349 "woke" = Neoliberal state ideology.

[@CakeboyRiP]

If you could "make someone gay" why not give them a straight book or show them just a normal hollywood movie and they would turn back straight just like that. If only people wouldn't be afraid of their own unexplored sexualities and of things unknown but basically human the wold would be better off.

[@poisonivy109]

👏👏👏 well said!

[@brianedwards7142]

I'm camp as the day is long and I was raised on John Wayne movies.🤔

[@beebeelicious]

That's a brilliant point actually 😹

[@PrinAnie]

I know LGBT+ elders that lived in the closet until relatively recently. At least the ones who survived the AIDS epidemic.

[@ZachValkyrie]

Just when I thought I couldn't hate Thatcher even more...

[@emmaflores7463]

The classic "They're coming for your kids!"

[@Brasswatchman]

@@EdgyPuer Who? Matt Gantz?

[@forgenorman3025]

@@EdgyPuer No we're not, get a life and leave us alone.

[@forgenorman3025]

@@EdgyPuer I'm not a priest or a cop.

[@tgbluewolf]

@@forgenorman3025 How about a sports figure, politician or other celeb?

[@BooTheBeagle]

This stuff makes me wanna cry

[@usernametaken6566]

At least we had decent haircuts.

[@Alsatiagent-zu1rx]

@@usernametaken6566 Decent 80s UK pop music did much to obliterate any inherent (or entrained) homophobia in young people. The artists were just too damn good.

[@stephenlee5929]

@@Alsatiagent-zu1rx 70's, The Kinks? 🤔🤔

[@digitaljanus]

@@Alsatiagent-zu1rx I heard Bronski Beat's "Smalltown Boy" being used in a bank commercial of all things a couple weeks ago and my blood boiled.

[@hello-rq8kf]

womp womp

[@Randomgen77]

Today in “reasons to patronize the Margaret Thatcher Memorial Public Toilet.”

[@Colin.Smith.Pianist]

Forgive my ignrance, but is that a real place?? I'd love to visit and make a deposit...

[@jonathanwebster7091]

​@@Colin.Smith.PianistI'm from Lincolnshire (sorry for producing Thatcher. No, really. Sorry about that). Can confirm.

[@oliverbuttery9550]

@@jonathanwebster7091 We also produced Isaac Newton if that's any consolation.

[@Rug_the_Cuddly_Huggable_Cat]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[@AmAppleton]

And now they're doing it to trans people. I hate reliving my youth

[@Brasswatchman]

Same old script, too, for the most part. Ugh.

[@88WhiteRhino]

It may have to do with the multiple trans caught being pedos or the inclusion of MAPs in the recent version of LBTQ+. I am not saying that a good Trans ain't a thing there was a wonderful lady at the last place I worked (formerly a dude) that was swell too talk with as she was happy and funny, real smart lady as well.

[@justinfleming5119]

Trans wasn't a thing in your youth. What are they doing to trans people? Not pretending?

[@guymontag2948]

@@justinfleming5119 Never seen Rocky Horror? 💋

[@justinfleming5119]

@@guymontag2948 No. I listened to Led Zeppelin and smoked normal cigarettes. I tried to differentiate myself by my achievements, not by wearing a costume bought at the mall.

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

This happened concurrently with the very similar "Satanic Panic" in the USA, and I'm sure it's not a coincidence.

[@diktatoralexander88]

The 1980s was a very moral, reactionary time. In some ways I believe was worse than what the 50s produced. A lot of adults raised in a tamer time, being shocked by the changing moral trends. And theyre still alive talking their opinion to this day.

[@fillhixx]

You want to find ‘the groomers’ look to your religious leaders….

[@tgbluewolf]

Or politicians, sports figures and other celebrities.

[@RustyShackleford101]

We are a stupid, stupid species.

[@Ineddiblehulk]

We need another asteroid - the beauty in humanity’s existence does not justify our existence. We are awful and a blight on this world

[@Brasswatchman]

So why don't we try learning for a change?

[@RustyShackleford101]

@@Brasswatchman too much like hard work, apparently

[@Brasswatchman]

@@RustyShackleford101 Well, still no fix for stupid. All we can do is see to ourselves as best we can.

[@cakeskin3333]

What is it they say, history doesn’t repeat itself but it sure does echo

[@lars573]

If you've watched, or read, V for Vendetta. The Lesbian in the next cell part is based on this kind of cultural atmosphere.

[@SariusxX]

I'm sorry if this is in bad taste, but "The Gay Slayer" sounds like a compliment these days. Progress?

[@Drekromancer]

That title makes me envision Doomslayer wearing 6" heels

[@seanhartnett79]

Sounds like a metal band with gay people in it.

[@AlunParsons]

Section 28 outraged us all when Thatcher introduced it. At least Blair repealed it.

[@vh1830]

These same tactics are being used against trans people right now. Its so hard to watch this all play out now considering we know the consiquences from back then.

[@davidioanhedges]

...it protected children from "The Gays", who were not a problem in the first place... but unfortunately it was in some cases MP's ...

[@Christopher01970]

Looks like hatred is easy to sell.

[@pipsplay]

Always true.

[@NickCBax]

As long as fear is mixed in.

[@rhiflux]

This comment section is a hellzone. I expected better from JDraper's audience, it's surprising

[@AmAppleton]

Me too. But homophobes, transphobes, and other bigots seem to get almost everywhere these days

[@loc4725]

Personally I'm not particularly surprised. Her channel covers history, which depending on the specific content can be appealing regardless of political leaning. I will say though that she does seem to lean left and have that unfortunate affliction of being non-critical, so it's understandable that you might think her entire audience was that way.

[@rhiflux]

I guess I watched enough of her videos to see the left, feminist and queer ones, but you're right

[@tgbluewolf]

Just because someone agrees with one thing someone talks about, doesn't mean they're going to agree with everything.

[@julianshepherd2038]

It was mad. Eastenders had gay characters and teachers could not talk about it. Bloody Thatcher.

[@jonathanwebster7091]

Only today I had a rather...nauseating argument with someone who kept referring to trans people as "obviously mentally ill." Which just made me think: hang on, just barely over 60 years ago, gay people were officially described as 'sexually insane', and being gay was considered a mental illness. The more things change...

[@recoveringsoul755]

Well some of them probably are. No single group of people is guaranteed to have zero mental illness. But being trans when it's naturally occurring I think is a far smaller amount of people than what it seems to be affecting now. It's statistically impossible to have multiple trans children in one household. And then there are all the people trying to detransition, realizing they got talked into it, or were seeking attention, or were just going through a phase they grew out of.

[@Brasswatchman]

@@recoveringsoul755 "Statistically impossible," or just unlikely? Presuming that we've even got a handle on how the genetics work there. With regards to the people trying to de-transition -- who, exactly? Are there any sort of verifiable case studies here?

[@spe3dy744]

@@recoveringsoul755 very few people detransition, papers just jump on any person who's willing to give a statement about it.

[@ButMadNNW626]

Addressing OP’s comment, homosexuality was not removed from the DSM until *1973*, only 51 years ago.

[@justinfleming5119]

The latter doesn't falsify the former. It's not even clear how you relate the two. Is it to do with genitals?

[@gyorkshire257]

To be fair, the word grooming wasn't common at that time, iirc. It's worth noting how much the Labour leadership under Kinnock went along with this panic. There was a particularly gruesome by election in 1981 in London (which I'm sure you know about) in which Peter Tatchell was selected as candidate and got monstered by the press and the homophobic Liberal party campaign. After that, only the far left (Benn, Corbyn, Livingstone, Abbot etc.) supported gay rights until John Smith took over. The only exception being the National Union of Mineworkers who remembered the solidarity shown by gay campaigning groups during the Miners Strike of 84.

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

Thank you again for sharing your research & heightening awareness of truths behind the lies and fears. As for my own ignorance, see below. Silly me, thinking this will be about the other grooming; grooming of one's self (deadly tweezers, face powder; haunted mirrors that give nightmares & the like).

[@ish474]

The concept that human beings have a choice in their sexuality is mind-blowing. Any human that went through puberty and still thinks that you have a choice in what you're attracted to is just absolutely ridiculous.

[@Ineddiblehulk]

The stupid thing is it implies that THEY chose their sexuality so they considered being gay but chose otherwise. Their internal logic doesn’t even hold up.

[@JoeSmith-qy6qo]

i’m going to choose to be gay now

[@ish474]

@JoeSmith-qy6qo I mean you would if you could right. It's not like having two genders that see the world completely differently and have opposite priorities makes life easy.

[@spiritmuse]

Honestly I am more and more convinced that most people who believe that actually feel bisexual attractions themselves. And they *choose* to deny one half of it, and they think that that is what it means to be straight. They think everyone feels that attraction, and that what makes you straight is that you choose to deny it.

[@ish474]

@spiritmuse a really good rule in life is, if someone tells you how they feel, believe them. There is neither enough evidence nor any good cause to argue with a person about how they feel.

[@nicolasau]

When this came up on my feed, I was thinking why people would panic over beards 😅

[@thisisme2681]

I thought the same thing 😆.

[@Brynnthebookworm]

Exactly! I was like, ooooohhhhh that kind of grooming..... 😅

[@Noobgalaxies]

J. Draper downing a can of monster in classy attire before going on a short, angry history lesson on homophobia is a whole ass vibe Edit: "The prime minister Margaret Thatcher..." oh of course she was involved lmao Edit 2: she was drinking a monster. I saw she was drinking monster energy. I knew and had it in my head she was drinking a can of monster. Why did I type mountain dew at first lmao

[@AnimateTheArts]

Fr

[@RAFMnBgaming]

Thatcher is to UK politics as Reagan is to US politics and Napoleon is to european bordergore. If something's wrong, there's a good chance it can all be traced back to them.

[@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980]

​@@RAFMnBgaming Understatement of the Millennium!

[@crow_feather]

Wow. And here I thought this was going to be a video on people panicking over proper hygiene and makeup. This video definitely wasn't about that! 🤣 That laugh aside, what the Tories did in England sounds a lot like what the Republicans were doing here in the States at the same time. What gets me is that for all of Thatcher's complaining about how they were teaching kids that they had the moral right to be gay, the reality is that, yes, they absolutely do have the right to be gay! They deserve to know that they're loved and supported regardless of who they develop crushes on. She was so up in arms over what amounted to nothing more than loving children for who they are.

[@kateherr2893]

Meanwhile, I thought it was going to be about grooming, but the kind that actually does happen and is a problem - the kind that comes from straight people. It's pretty much everywhere, and when it crosses into abusive territories we have so many institutions that help to cover it up and see that as "helping." After all, we focus so much ire at "teen mothers" yet, most of the people who get them pregnant are men over the age of consent.

[@crow_feather]

@@kateherr2893 Yeah... And that's the sort of grooming and abuse that is rampant, and is, sadly, covered up...I would say far too much, but the reality is that even one coverup of such a terrible atrocity is far too much. We live in a truly sick world, one where misogyny is allowed to go unchecked far too often, with the woman bearing the burden of the blame, while the men go unchecked, and are even covered for. It absolutely heartbreaking.

[@iangascoigne8231]

They’re still losing their minds.

[@Brasswatchman]

Constantly and consistently. Helps if they never had them to begin with.

[@rachicolate]

The fact that I got a chick-fil-a ad after this video feels like a hate crime

[@secretforreddit]

Ad blockers, my friend. Ad blockers.

[@goingslowlynowhere]

@@secretforreddit They do the trick, but also takes revenue from the owner of the youtube channel, and just funnels the ads towards others. I tend to leave it off when I am browsing channels of decent people 🤷‍♂

[@hello-rq8kf]

cry about it, might get some chikfila later

[@ButMadNNW626]

@@secretforredditAd blockers aren’t available on all platforms (such as Apple TV) and KZbin is figuring out how to block the blockers anyway. I know people hate paying for things ;) but KZbin Premium removes ads _and_ gets more money into the pockets of the channels you watch than even their ad revenue. Most of my watch time anymore is here rather than Netflix, etc. and I’m often watching on my TV rather than computer, so I pay for premium. It makes sense for me.

[@katendress6142]

​@@hello-rq8kfdon't cut yourself on that edge

[@dannyfriar5653]

Meanwhile, straight men...

[@mr.h1262]

It's important to know that homophobia isn't just an American problem or a British problem, etc. It's all over. What might be the "old days" of the 80s in one place could be some other country's yesterday, today, or some point in time to be determined.

[@jimboll6982]

Wow! Something the US didn't invent? A country created post 1776 is slacking

[@Madamoizillion]

Wow this comment section is rough.

[@julienotsmith7068]

I was around for the eighties. We got a lot of great haircolors and learned quickly the adults were full of **** and maybe just be nice to nice people, avoid mean people, and so forth.