The Guardian Grind - Elite Dangerous

[@VindicatorJones]

If you agree with this video in anyway, PLEASE leave a like, and share this Video. If frontier can see just how many people feel the same way, perhaps it might have some effect. Thanks everyone :)

[@IKvASS]

Good idea, bad investment.

[@corinthiansdaniels3728]

Vindicator Jones finally a rant.

[@kevinjones8307]

makes a lot of sense , on your last point maybe a player council could be a good idea to channel direct feedback from the community

[@brianb3295]

Vindicator Jones, how about this idea.. Instead of doing this same guardian ruin run over and over for these dumb materials, the mission should have been to find and activate all, or several guardian sites to unlock 1 guardian tech reward. Every month a new guardian technology becomes available with a new mission attached to it driven by the story.

[@markhackett2302]

One thing to think of is in 6 month time and more in years afterward, how immersive is the current guardian grind when it's just getting info that had been creamed by thousands of people a year before? Same for the other guardian scan missions.

[@TheYamiks]

really the only thing i have to disagree with is the whole "it's work in progress & give them time" idea for.. well anything new. Devs had time to go over,design and test things that they want to implement and at this point IF they have fucked up, they better hear about it than you staying silent.... you know "squeaky wheel get's the grease" approach, and the louder the squeak the better!

[@VindicatorJones]

Well, in regards to crime and punishment, I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, as really they don't play the game and there is only so much in house testing you can do.... But yeah, I know what you mean.. But in regards to the guardian grind, that was an actual design choice, and that's where I have to say nah... sorry.. but this is not right.. Frontier were lazy and dropped the ball on this one... The phrase "we want to respect the players time" that Sandro said in a dev video a while ago, is what sticks out to me. But this whole guardian fiasco seems to completely go against that, and that really sucks.

[@TheYamiks]

so C&P in beta .. I SAID thati's going to annoy a lot of people.. but fuck me after testing it some more , for an average joe it's nothing BUT punishment... and ye sure devs don't listen to my Latvian ass but come the fuck on.. i wasn't alone on this! Also remember that Sandro said that they dont want to waste our time (with context to only when it comes to engineering modules WHEN you have the materials) That part about material gathering i knew also coming from beta

[@VindicatorJones]

Oh I knew C&P was going to be a disaster.. Messing around with such a complex system such as that was going to introduce a whole crap load of bugs.. and it did... And I agree, Frontier have been pretty laid back about implementing fixes, but they are doing it. Sandro posted something about it today... Thats what I was meaning.. I would find that statement funny "frontier dosent want to waste our time" if it didnt feel like thats EXACTLY what they want to do, for the sake of "Gameplay"

[@TheScottShepard]

“How to Effectively Communicate a Difficult Message” by Vinicator Jones. Textbook, mate. Really well done!

[@VindicatorJones]

Thankyou kind Sir! I do try :)

[@SangTheCryptek]

"Frontier should stop expecting players to play how they want them too, and actually look at how players interact with the game." THAT, is the key problem with ED, right there.

[@MatrixOfDoom]

Frontier should hire you that all sounds really fun actually

[@iansharmacook]

I agree, the "grind" of unlocking thargoid bases was rewarded by giving players directions to others, which meant people were uncovering more and more thargoid sites. If the Guardians unlock not only gave you a blueprint, but also gave you directions to another guardian site we would have players zooming about doing the same thing over and over and loving it! I also agree the total number of times to get a blueprint to unlock an item is a bit silly, 1 for the simpler items, maybe 4 for the more powerful items. When there is no narrative reason to travel/search for other Guardian sites, then players will just sit at one site relog and do it again and again, which just adds to frustration! The mission example is a great idea, I think the challenge is how FDev implement it, as its not a Procedurally Generated mission, so thsi means they have to create more, or maybe overlay a new narrative mission type. I for one think that pop-up missions that spawn whn you enter a USS would also assist (eg. enter a wedding ceremony and a pop-up offers money to rescue bride (an ejected life support pod) and take her to "safety") or a distress beacon that sends you a data package that has to be delivered asap as baddies are after you. making missions more varied in how you get them would help, as well as maybe a scripted narrative mission type that maybe players could contribute to.

[@VindicatorJones]

The annoying thing is that Frontier are trying to increase players play time using a sloppy and lazy mechanic, instead of trying to be more inventive. Perhaps it all had to do with them moving premises, and they have spent more time on that instead of working on the game.. Either way if Frontier keep doing this, they will start loosing more players.

[@bearwolffish]

You and VJ, both give great examples of missions that could be implemented using current mechanics. Which when matched with the tutorials and the way they were structured, proves that these types of interlinked engaging missions are possible. It's even more of a shame then that FD whether through lack of resources, or desire, seem instead committed to their time sinks.

[@Myrrhth]

The more interactive story driven missions don't have to be procedural and they don't have to replace the existing missions. Look at how Freelancer worked. You start out with a story driven quest, once completed you're told to grind out some money using procedurally generated missions. You could do the same thing in Elite. You could have a story line for new pilots, one each for each of the ranks :Trade, Exploration, Combat, with new missions unlocking with each new Rank. Add a few story driven missions from time to time to match major Galnet events. You already have the bones of such a system in the game. With Galnet, with Source signals like weddings etc, interesting things to discover in the galaxy. All you need is a narrative reason to pursue these things, with a couple of scripted events throw in to make them 100% more interesting. I received some coordinates from a mysterious stranger recently, I thought this was finally it, I was accessing the narrative. But no, she was just telling me I could scoop up some cargo from planet. I did it, and that was it. If some pirates had shown up to tell me to hand it over, and after killing them I receive a message from the contact telling me that the cargo belonged to some character with a personality and a backstory, and they wanted it returned to them, that would have made the whole thing worthwhile. As it is the only fun in the game comes from the flight and combat mechanics, and everything else is so much grinding towards unlocking more fun in that area. I've tried to get so many friends and family into the game but the lack of narrative progression really kills it for them every time. Sad

[@verbatum141]

This needs to happen. I was excited just listening to it. Well done sir.

[@stevenszmek7007]

Well done - great video ! "There´s a lot to be said - unfortunately nobody is willing to listen"

[@kipbricks90]

Wow, I would LOVE these types of storyline missions. This is awesome!

[@troybrice4531]

Your mission idea is intense and actually involves a decent amount of risk vs reward :^)

[@MRGav100]

Best line from any elite video I've seen & couldn't agree more! "Frontier need to stop expecting players to play how they want them to and instead look at how they are actually playing the game"

[@Cloudsifter]

Very good, constructive criticism. Excellent suggestions on how they can make it better.

[@PublicWifi]

Nice intro and editing. Subbed. Random ED thread brought me here.

[@docsponderings1515]

Excellent video! I love your idea for the interactive narrative!!

[@Kaethena]

Very well articulated and well thought out. I agree with pretty much everything you've said. And the fact that they're more like The Grindians is the main reason I haven't yet gone anywhere near the sites, and could care less about the stuff. As someone who over-engineers the heck out of their ships, I'm no stranger to getting materials together. But doing the Guardian stuff is too much, even for me. It's too repetitive. Too narrow in scope. And just unfun. For rewards that have, at most, limited usefulness in day to day play. The idea of more immersive, interactive scenarios in order to do things in the game is one that I think most people want, and one I hope they eventually look at implementing. Even if you aren't interested in the payoff, the journey to get it could be made way more engaging and something worth doing in itself. We can only hope :)

[@K1lostream]

Nice work, VJ - I have to say I liked these sites more than most seem to have done - I enjoyed the trajectory of the first failed attempts, that clumsy first success, and the gradual improvement over the first 6-8 runs of the base, gradually figuring the best way to tackle the guardian drones and where the pylons were.....but I confess that once it became a matter of routine, the sheen wore off a bit - I can appreciate how someone who hates driving the SRV and is only there for the items would find this torturous.

[@K1lostream]

I

[@malkavian2]

Great adventure idea I really like it and creating a narrative within these major plot moments and CG’s would be awesome

[@gergbrowering5431]

Hi VJ, good analysis of the state of the game, I’ve unlocked the Guardian Power plant, Gauss and Plasma cannon, but it took me two weeks of evenings at 1 drop per run to collect the 30 odd blueprints. At the time I was livid when I got out there to find that the drop rate was reduced from 3 to 1 per run. I honestly could not fathom the reason. I’ve unlocked all engineers, am double elite and have king and admiral rank with billions in assets. I know the grind. But that actually made me so angry I went off the game for the last couple of months. Particularly that after weeks of work the actual reward - the modules were so ineffective. I’m going back into the game but not for the awkward attempt at storey, but for community based activities that occur in the game around player groups and initiatives which are the real assets of the game.

[@richardswede]

Never a truer word spoken Mr Jones. I dearly hope The Elite Dangerous Dev team watch this. Mr Samarco should call all his dev team into their meeting room and lead off with video, then say "Guys, we are doing something wrong here. Lets sort it out NOW!!! "

[@VindicatorJones]

HA... I seriously doubt that some how.. It's sad they are either ignoring or, perhaps too busy with the move to reply on the forums..

[@nallwhite4146]

You're idea and those like it would be flappin amazing.

[@NapFloridian]

Great Video and rant Jones I did not even bother with the Guardian stuff as they took out the FSD, which was really the only item that I was interested in... now hearing about the grind I said NO, no way that kind of pointless grind is just stupid .

[@cardcounter21]

Great video, and I've suggested more than one idea myself online to improve ED, but imagine if FD took the time to implement every idea the internet world has to offer then the game that would ultimately satisfy us all probably wouldn't arrive until the real 34th century - maybe when Star Citizen will finally see a release (: As a long time player who knows how much ED can frustrate (and also puzzle with difficult to find functions that should be more intuitively accessible) I still find Frontiers galaxy enticing to return to even after nearly two years of gameplay (always using the Oculus Rift)! How many other games can claim that! Keep up the videos though as you always have good ideas and I'm sure FD pays attention!

[@OseanBigshot444]

LOVE the mission ideas! That could actually lead to emergent gameplay, if there was a variety of conditions that could prompt impromptu or contextual missions like that, at least add some very needed spice to the standard loop. And in your example, maybe have a handful of scenarios that could play out at random when repeating (I know they can do RNG lol). Also, at minimum, very basic NPC interaction needs to be a thing asap. Even just a standard 4-button conversation system - Yes, No, More Info, and Maybe(cancel for now). Let's take NPC interdiction for example. Now you get interdicted, NPC says line of text like "give me X-tons of blah or I'll shoot". Our only interaction is to drop the cargo, or run, or shoot them. NPC reacts to our action, but there is no actual interaction between us and NPC, aside from weapons fire. Why can't they hail us on comms, and why can't we hail other ships? A holographic of them could pop up in the HUD, with their text caption, and the 4-button responses. That could give the actual option of telling the NPC: "Yes I submit, Go to hell, I'll kill you first, or Catch me if you can sucka!" or something like that. Each response should have a unique enough reaction to not just be flavor text with the same outcome. Of course, if agree to submit, but then attack or run, NPC pirate is probably going to attack you. Would be really awesome though if maybe NPC pirates would specifically target your drives or powerplant to DISABLE your ship and then pirate your cargo, without necessarily killing you. There should also be an option in the Functions ship tab to activate a distress call, and basically call Rescue One or Security to your location, to refuel or repair to get your ship at least able to limp back to a station. It would be an NPC Fuel Rats option basically. System location, security level, and even distance from local star could dictate the level of response and time, perhaps only being viable in bubbles of habited space. The actual dialogue response system would be much more engaging and useful for all interactions, missions, and objectives within missions. Instead of "hey I have info so follow me to this other location" and then poof! they're gone - You could actually be hailed and have a chance to confirm what's happening, and say "wait I don't have a wake scanner, so I can't follow you" - they can respond with winging up so you automatically jump with them; things like that.

[@soapmode]

Well said. It's obvious this content was designed to solve a developer problem over any real desire to create engaging content (that problem essentially being, 'how can we keep the E:D playerbase occupied while we work on the next patch segment plus JP:E?'). Their focus just isn't on the satisfying gameplay. Since we're brainstorming, they could also chain these missions around acquiring items or ruin co-ordinates from ships, megaships and wrecks via the hatchbreaker and datahacking minigame. That would make good use of new content and tie it in to the Guardian content.

[@Ploskkky]

I find myself agreeing with every ED subject you address. Your treatment of the subjects is fair, moderate and balanced.

[@VindicatorJones]

Thanks, I really try and see things from both sides. :)

[@kylejohnson751]

On point Vindicator! FDev really needs to listen to the players and not control them. I love your mission idea. I would love to see more immersive (key word) player 2 player interactions too. Better powerplay rewards, maybe even purchasable outposts that can be affected either way by other players. Allow players to carve out sections of the Galaxy and actually fight for control.

[@FizzerUK]

This is such a good evaluation of the current 'We Don't Want to waste your Time' grind situation. I am sure they do not want this to be the way it is. BUT! Along with 'Gold Rushes' and Quick 'rank Grind' nerfs the devs HAVE to realise the way we play the game is NOT the way they percive the game. First time I have EVER played a 'SOLO' MMO. OPEN is for PvP nothing more. So may as well ditch CQC and have OPEN-CQC But your idea of the way these story missions go is spot on. You could even tie the mysterious stranger to a faction. then you would affiliate with that faction. The PvP element could come into play with opposing factions. NOT just anyone that flies.

[@SEPK09]

Totally agree with regards many aspects of what you say, For me I don't follow the grind of thargoid and guardian narrative, mainly because as you say it feels frontier are pushing you into that, My rant would be the in game content now or missing a trick or three, for example search & rescue agency is wasted on literally no players taking part in it, many of the items are to hard to find, which has always been a ongoing issue for elite, "To hard to find" salvage missions could also be implemented into search and rescue, the credit system is also another concern, like you say it would be nice to have a agent give you a mission similar to what we get now but the payouts are ridiculous, not because I want to speed my way to high credits, because I am there already, but there is no immersion with it, it would be better to have a video message instead of just a text like message. There are many many more missed tricks to the game of which I just hope frontier don't waste time on newer pushing you into more so than fixing & balancing what we have already.

[@philipbannor3281]

Another well-presented, coherent and interesting idea!

[@Weazle099]

Cmdr jones. Nailed it.

[@chrisbird4913]

Good. Constructive

[@bearwolffish]

Careful, you're coming eerily close to describing engaging gameplay there. I think your suggestions are great though they would take more effort to implement, where as it wouldn't be hard to give us 3 shards per scan instead of 1. I love the game, but we have to accept that the numbers of repetitions are high for a reason. These missions could be just as economical to produce without wasting our time so willfully.

[@chrishexx3360]

FDev content updates: Add asset (usually broken) Get players to repeat same asset process 200+ times. Wait months to add new asset and content. Fix original asset. Rinse and repeat. Generation ships, Thargoid sites, Guardian Sites, INRA sites, the pattern continues. Drop an asset then milk it to oblivion for the next few months until nobody gives a rats ass.

[@AusTerranX]

Love the idea! Hope "someone" listens to your ideas mate.

[@sjparkinson]

Can't disagree with any of the concepts presented. Well balanced video.

[@dmain6735]

Sanity points lol. Your short story line ideas are good. They're hand made and they take time, two commodities FD are short on.

[@evoeightyci]

I keep seeing people say some of these changes are hard, or I know it's hard for Frontier to do these kinds of changes. NO. Putting a man on the moon in a 10 year period was Hard. These guys are supposed to be programmers. That is their job. I get the sad feeling Frontier spends way more time on "what can we sell" for the game VS what can we do to attract more players. Creating more grind is not the answer and I honestly don't think they get that .

[@davido9208]

Well said sir

[@DevilbyMoonlight]

Very valid points, I agree with your synopsis of the situation, in particular the way it is at the guardian sites, for myself it kinda kills the immersion when you shoot the towers and scan the ball for the 50th time, there just isn't enough variation bar the slightly different spawn points of the sentinels, I think myself part of the problem is that too many scans are required, I get it that its not meant to be easily handed on a plate to you but maybe if it was a bit more difficult, making it harder to achieve instead of the mind numbing number of repetitive cycles required, dont get me wrong I like the game very much, I have 2 cmdrs and have been playing it for a few years, and up until the mega module grind at the guardian sites, the other engineer material grind didnt bother me as it needs to be a bit of a time sink. When I was aware of even more guardian modules, I thought to myself I am not doing that again.... once is enough methinks... infact only one of my cmdrs has the guardian modules as I didnt fancy trekking out there again for scan the ball another 50 times

[@Midiroms]

I just watched this video on the 28th April 2019. I can tell you that after travelling 1000 light years to get the first version of the Guardian FSD booster. Nothing has changed. I have a 48LY jump range in my Asp. I think I could get to Beagle Point and back quicker with that than trying to get the rest of the blueprints for just 10 extra light years. Then there is the grind for the power to run it all. Bloody hell.

[@trigun539]

Great stuff, totally agree with it.

[@EvilijoUK]

I think it is pretty obvious what FD is doing, they bring new features with as little effort as possible, and then they water it down as much as possible "so it can last" - instead of giving players ability to use new tech, weapons, upgrades etc in say 5-10 hours of gameplay they stretch it to 50-80 hours, that's how each new content works, be it engineers, or guardians or thargoids bases. Sad but true

[@malkavian2]

I really hope this is the way they go with new era, they have a real chance to inject some amazing story into our playtime

[@mobiuscoreindustries]

Maybe one day they will actually hire a competent designer. One day.

[@stationtostation8590]

Just got my first module blueprint. This was actually quite cool. Cool location, not too easy (hardest part, though, was to park my Conda in the hills ...). Intersting sounds and effects. Great. Then I had a look at the requirements for modules. At least 4 times charging those pillars and dropping a relic?? For the FSD booster 8 times ... that is madness. I've had my share of grind, 2x Elite, Imp & Fed rank, all engineers. But this must be the worst of it. Please, FDev, have mercy. I'm not going to do this a second time, before something changes. Life's short.

[@ROPname]

Very nice vid. Hope Frontier takes notes :) Subbed! FTM! o7

[@gromitelectrical]

You're 1000% right, I'm not going to carry on with Guardians, as it's just Grind, but is a shame as need some of the modules for Thargoids, hopefully in time they will change it, then I might consider unlocking stuff.

[@cheekyj4794]

Yep your idea gets a thumbs up from me, I would love to do a mission like that. I still play Elite, but no where near as much as I used to. I found the grind getting worse and worse, I'm currently at a Guardian site at the mo, but after doing the mission a couple of time i logged off and have't been back since. How Frontier are moving the game forward is not how I would go about it, Yes it must be hard to do their job, but it does feel that they are not putting as much thought into their dissensions as the player base deserve. I've stuck with the game since 2015, and I don't think I'll ever remove it from my hard drive, but I used to play every night with a group of friends, now there are only two of us left from our group, and I suspect it'll just be me soon. I really do hope Frontier watches this and takes your idea on board, just hope they have the ability to program something like this int the game. That's what I'm worried about, have Frontier locked themselves into a programming hole that they can't get out of because the game's code won't let them create dynamic missions etc.

[@JYF346]

I am on the same boat as you are in. I had a good group of ED players I used to hang with every other night. But now I have reached that point where I am the last one left playing. I still haven't logged on in a month after grinding one guardian blueprint. I still don't even have the other non-guardian materials for it yet. Rough times. :(

[@khazzen]

Your idea is very good and not that hard to implement. The assets are already there. Voice acting is good, but not always necessary.

[@TheOnlyIcepirate]

love this idea

[@cmdrsoundo5240]

Really like this idea. Where is this "personal narrative" we were promised

[@ChunterGB]

Mate i'm like you still twitching after doing 8 runs for the damn fsd booster which is gone. Also you're spot on, who's gonna fly out there to do just one run?

[@flimleybinkkerton2494]

It is very rare I complain about this game. But, a few posts had to be made about the repetition regarding this issue. I don’t even want these modules. As I do not engage with the thargoids. It’s simply wrong by design.

[@leeebbrell9]

I don't mind giving it a few times, but you only get one blueprints.

[@brianb3295]

Frontier has never adopted well thought out content or balance to this game. Since the engineers update several years ago Elite has seen incessant balance/re-balance of weapons, ships, credit earning and whatever the latest meta is through a system that doesn't work. I'm literally sick of this albeit beautiful but lackluster grindfest. Frontier has ruined this game and any hope that I ever had for it, which really ticks me off because I loved this game and had such high hopes for it. People need to be fired!

[@andrewdavies2109]

The key thing that makes the guardian data different is that unlike many other engineering ingredients you won't come across them by "just playing". Things from USSs you can stumble across. Stuff that drops from ship kills, OK. Ship or wake scans, yep. Guardian sites, in the middle of nowhere, where you have to activate six pylons in an srv, no. So its a special trip, and you're going to do it all in one go, unless you lose your marbles first. This should never have made it into release.

[@gilshadu]

I hope this happens but should require branching random elements in each player or wing instance of the story.

[@davidkennedy1077]

Like you say, these sites are reasonably designed, atmospheric and fun.......initially. I just don't understand their design choices, plus you shouldn't HAVE to log to do these. How is that immersive??? A big shot of fun and imagination needed at Frontier ASAP!!! Have they lost interest??? This year started with such promise, and now 4 months in, I'm not so sure. Plus we're a third of a year through 2018 already, and they're still sorting Q1, what about Q2, Q3 and Q4???

[@davidkennedy1077]

We only moan about Elite because we love it. If we were not invested (time/money/love of the game) then we as a community would not be so passionate. Now I don't deny that making a huge game like Elite is hard work, but there is a vast chasm between Frontier and the Elite player base. If they bridged this devide with more effective communication, then maybe we would cut them some slack. I do love Elite and I really want the best future for it possible (we all do) but sometimes??? Frontiers reasoning leaves a lot to be desired. Great vid as usual, thanks Mr Jones o7!!!

[@VindicatorJones]

Exactly..... I dont make these videos just to whinge.. I make them because I actually care about the game, and want it to get even better..

[@davidkennedy1077]

Vindicator Jones and it shows, you expressed yourself far better than me. So much about Elite is spot on The flight model is a great mix (in my eyes) of sim and arcade, graphics and sound are fantastic, the galaxy is astonishing. Mining and Exploration are getting attention in Beyond, Bounty Hunting/Assasinations/Combat Zones are good fun, these are all Elites strengths. But as you say, story is non existent (all I know is through KZbin etc) and Missions are so limited and without fun or reason. I have credits and a fleet but now feel like I'm spinning my wheels with nothing else. I still keep fingers (and toes) crossed for 2018s improvements. Come on Frontier, sort it out (Plus where's my Q2?) I'm hoping the rest of 2018 goes smoother haha!!!

[@K1lostream]

David Kennedy - You don't HAVE to log to do these - you CHOSE to log because you couldn't be arsed to fly out of the instance, turn around and fly back in. P.S. I'm not criticising those who reset the instance by logging - that's how I do it too, but it's not right to say that your hand is being forced - there is a 'mersion compatible way if you're into that!

[@davidkennedy1077]

K1lostream but if you're talking immersion, why would you IRL visit a site, collect what's needed then fly away.....and then come straight back??? It's a very silly set up designed with good intent and then ruined by daft grinding. But defo not immersive.

[@DanTKD87]

Im doing the guardian weapons and SLF grind right now. Its driving me crazy.

[@Alswulf]

Gods! I thought everyone can scan'n'get blueprint for one run! (and it was my main point to say that it mentions to unite commanders for purpuse - but nope :D). I also adore how immersive ruins look and feel but if it combine with your-kind-proposition - it would be much better! And think it shouldn't be difficult to implement: all of those features already exist in the game - chain events, properly test it and release

[@ShadowTracer]

Amen.

[@ecevansevans2566]

We want atmosphere, WALK AROUND and FPSHOOTER . OH YEAH U R RIGHT.

[@kaizaki9148]

I agree partially, but I also don't think the "grind" for the guardian weapons was nearly as bad as some others in the game. It's true it got boring after 15 or so rounds of the site and I think being able to do it as a wing would be great, especially as when in open play everyone is trying to do the same thing so it's pushing people into private/solo. Also I think it'd be great to come across more kinds of guardians as you do more rounds of the site. To keep things unknown. Just my thoughts, great video!

[@TheTerribleTy]

I regret the day I got caught up on Critical Role, now I can only watch it once a week

[@VindicatorJones]

I got all caught up last year, then skipped a few month, I am an episode behind right now.. I'm having a hard time connecting with the characters this time around though.. But still great stuff.

[@MrGrantdw]

I gave this game away over a year and a half ago because of the insane amount of grinding for no pay off even after the engineers came out, and I can still not see any of this has changed to make me come back.

[@Kaitain]

Elite player can design gameplay and missions better than Frontier. Are they secretly chronically understaffed or something?

[@68Snaps]

I remember how awesome it was to discover guardian sites for the first time. I also remember wanting to kill myself at the 10th "logout-login" to grind the necessary quantity of materials needed for the modules. What was a great experience was turned into a nightmare, and I really never want to go back to these place and do what everyone should: just admire the beauty FDev has created. It's all spoiled by the horrendous material grinding loops. I don't know, maybe guardian sites should be much harder to conquer, but once you get the blueprint, it's actually the only blueprint you'll ever need for all the modules. It would be the "Guardian Technology capsule", allowing you to unlock all ship modules. I could live with that. But endlessly repeating the SAME gameplay, over and over and over and over... I just want to jump out the window... er canopy I mean...

[@VindicatorJones]

I agree.. its why I refuse to grind anymore. Im done.. I will do random missions, do different tasks, whatever I am in the mood for and will just slowly collect mats along the way.. I just simply cant grind anymore..

[@MatrixOfDoom]

Also wanted to say thanks for the videos your beginners piloting videos have helped me immensely that and a vr headset didn't hurt either but I feel I'm getting closer to being a better combat pilot I'd love to play with you some time if your interested you got a discord I could join?

[@JYF346]

As a long time player of sto, I agree with you in that the reward system is much less grind than elite's, But as you said star trek online has other issues. Now I find myself playing both games less and less. I love both games but they are not providing content that is fun to play :(

[@ClintThrust-e8r]

Don’t engage with the grind, just ignore the content. Even If you spread this out over time, it would literally take a year to get these things, the stuff simply isn’t worth that kind of wait. It’s not 1984 anymore, this gameplay is substandard.

[@GK-wn6ur]

I think people miss the mark when they characterise the copious use of the grind mechanic as a design choice. I don't think FD has a choice. I think you have a group in the design staff who are at their limit both from a technical and imaginative point of view.

[@famooou5]

Great video and great story line there. However there are few things bothering me. First and foremost is the time that the story would take. I love it, dont get me wrong, but basically with that story line and all the layers build up into it, we will get an extended grind, therefore if they indeed decide to do something like that, they better raise the price. Couse yea, its annoying to grind as it is for now, but lets face it, you flip the board a few dozen times and there you go. If you have to flip with the story line in order to get the same amount of reward, man... I be damned

[@DanTKD87]

I just don't think I have the patience left to deal with FDEVs constant problems. A great example of them not testing is the fact all someone would have to do is engage their FSD to find out if the booster works. I'm not confident they're capable of making a fun game.

[@Fabelaz]

I kind of agree. If you are to make a story, make it a bit more interactive. However, with your example and how long it is, it better have variants in how it goes, 3 would be fine with a chance of one of them being triggered. Also, older players or players that don't need Elite to be more than it was can just stick to the sanbox aspects of the game. Which basically means they also have to be gredually updated, huh.

[@scoobylew24]

Elite Dangerous: mile wide, inch deep.

[@itsstrange7101]

I feel some of your pain, but I found that our wing of truckers using fighters and SRVs made quick work of the Guardian sites. We were able to scan the data point once each and used the fighter to charge the Guardian posts.

[@VindicatorJones]

Yup, having a small group working together in their ships is a good way to go, but unfortunately not everyone has the ability to do that. Also, you still need to scoop up the materials.

[@lefterisnydras4860]

totally agree

[@paulmclaine6413]

The grind is the whole reason I quit ED. I'll pop in every so often to see if they've updated....... The Grind.

[@bigandysg]

it is not possible to agree any more that i already do. i have hit a wall with elite, the engineer grind is fucked and has killed my enjoyment

[@lasvista2tech]

current massive grinds are to hide the fact that the game is still missing a lot of promised contents and gameplay activities.

[@cmdrjosky]

I just got the 16t Cargo Anticorrosion this morning and will be grabbing both Ram Missions i think i will be out there for a month gathering resources and mission requirements. Wish me sanity 😨 edit to say i almost forgot i gotta get all the Thargoid items :/

[@mikie1936]

Lol, is going on a bloody rampage through the neighbourhood with a weed wacker a British version of going postal? :)

[@qSPARTANp]

VJ, it's time, surely to realise that FD are just not capable. How many rants are left in you?

[@VindicatorJones]

They are capable, and they do have it in them, but their Game designers need to adapt to how players engage with the game. I have many left in me, because I love ED, and I want to see it get even better.

[@DanTKD87]

I just don't see them being capable at this point based on their terrible decisions (not lack of skill or talent). Personally would like to see a different developer take over with a fresh perspective.

[@andrewdavies2109]

They are definitely capable. The lead designer just needs a notice on both sides of his or her door that says "if, when playing your new feature, players will log in/log out or board flip repeatedly, the idea doesn't pass through this door"

[@paulmclaine6413]

Frontier are capable of creating Micro transactions. So the game is safe.

[@Praetoreon]

Awesome idea with the interactive story/questing/set pieces. Grinding is lazy from a development perspective and so two generations ago...

[@jasontipton8430]

Screw all that.

[@slimoliver5231]

I love this idea, ive been playing over 3 months on ps4 started playing with pad but decided to invest in a flight stick made the game 100 times better. The game is so massive that I've lost the plot when it comes to the story line if there is any at all, I've played star trek online but only on pc very complex game and with great story interaction one thing elite dangerous is lacking, in my opinion. To do with wings there ant anyway of finding players to join you on ps4 only through crew member invite which I have never done ive only every played solo, I think there should be more ways to find over people in your own faction for power play, or I'm I missing something?

[@ULTIMBANGA]

I knew they will nerf this grind and wait. And now it is, I can go to find few of these guardian blueprints without grinding for days. Always be patient. I did the same with engineers and wait for the change (remember when commodities were needed), and I won too. When something is a no brain grind just wait a nerf. FD are specialist to nerf all things (good and bad) XD

[@domn8t0r]

I'm not even doing the guarding grind because I can't find a compelling reason.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

At the risk of sounding cynical, I'll wager big that these exact same complaints will still be valid this time next year... & probably the year after that too. Plenty of commenters have said "I hope the devs are taking notice of your ideas"... I reckon there's a snowball in hells chance of that.

[@bier00t]

idea is great but FD wont do it cause it would only work in solo...

[@Exigeous]

Having done tutorials to unlock each of these I've done this the 56 times you mention - here's the issue. Rather than give us something difficult or interesting to do to "earn" modules like these they give us something simple that we have to repeat 56 times instead. Frontier knows how to create a fantastic simulator but a terrible "game". It really is sad and at this point is near inexcusable.

[@jimst3r1]

the game is a grind

[@Umbator]

No no no, we can't have your ideas VJ, that would take ACTUAL EFFORT TO IMPLEMENT Fdev don't want to have to actually make a fucking effort

[@ergogray3143]

You should try powerplay if you think the guardian is a grind.

[@VindicatorJones]

Oh, I have... I spent about 6 months playing powerplay seriously, then just gave up.. I have nothing good to say about powerplay.. The whole thing should be scrapped and re-built..

[@ElMitscha]

I so much wish, FDev would have listened. It's the most disappointing and infuriating thing about the game for me. I really liked the Guardian Sites, and the Beacon was really fantastatic the first time. But these great moments were destroyed by forcing me to repeat them over and over and make them dull and cumbersome. What were you thinking, FDev?! FDev should at least make it so that only, say, five to seven riddles for different special items (concepts) are necessary, which you get from five to seven different sites. Then you go around the sites some more to grind the other items (materials). That way you would not break immersion and atmosphere with the nice to great riddles because you wouldn't repeat them to death and hate, as you only need to grind the materials after the riddles are solved. But that's only when you, like FDev, see the game like a big grind and wait. I'd like to see that you have to do just one go for each unlock. And you can't cheat with re-logging and have to go to another site. That would be fine to me and would leave the nice things about the guardian atmosphere intact... I'd like a story or mission based aproach like you suggested much more, of course, but that would mean much more time and effort than implementing my suggestions, I guess. I really just want to get rid off the INSANE amount of unfun grind it now is... Another suggestion would be to be able to buy yourself out of this with money or other activities - after you've done the first run. (Players would be missing out in my view if you didn't at least do one or two sites and beacons.) After that you could also hire and send some sort of special team for a good amount of credits or something else (like some "favours" or something). That team would get you the stuff necessary, needing some days to complete. There could be a gamble with different team classes and different probabiltites to succeed and different time they need, depending on how much you spend on them and special equipment. More time could also mean a better chance of success and so on. It doesn't make any sense to force players to repeatedly do something they don't and really can't enjoy. By "forcing" I mean that if I wanted to start a career in xeno hunting I would need a shitload of time to get there doing stuff I really rather wouldn't. It would make much more sense IN A GAME (the thing you do for fun and enjoyment) if you could do something you like most of the time and something you don't only some of the time until you are ready to go, say, xeno hunting or someting other you then want to try... While I'm getting off topic a bit: What I really don't get is that combat is rewarded so badly compared to other activities (in credits). Also, the ranking system hurts, too. Why should you be able to earn the rank of Elite by grinding in easy combat? This is really beond me. You can get Elite with shitty combat skills. How is that a good system? I'd like it much better to have some sort of rank pass test - you can bring your own ship or go in a prepared stock one, but your own must be within certain parameters and might necessitate some modules or something. Earn your wings and not grind them or someting :) And for the love of god, FDev, please, make it possible to send your ships from whereever to whereever (station) without having to go there by yourself first. Nice video. I like your channel. Thank you.

[@WR3ND]

Sorry, started to zone-out with your talk of a narrative and story mission specific rewards. I don't think that is the best option. I think there should be multiple ways about doing things in the game which aren't incentivized over each other. Specific story arc progression related content is fine, but it should be entirely optional and without being incentivized with specific and exclusive player gear in the game unless it's just cosmetic or something. To be fair though, I primarily play the game as a survivalist and explorer, so I'm often out for months at a time, and all these sort of payoff exploited grinds like some have done for credits and the like seem very foreign to me and not compelling at all. I'd rather the game move away from that sort of thing where viable.

[@KariSinkko]

I have to say that your idea is actually good but it takes time to implement these things. It might sound simple but in fact they're not.

[@TheShugoBR]

i think they made the game too much modular or something like this, so the game can "generate" it self as you play.... and that make hard to make this kind of missions... and interaction... but i would love to see missions like that one you give the idea... i love elite... but i hate the grind... i can't play much because i get bored and can't play more.... but... if they see "how players play" they will make missions a lot grinding... because of missions that high pay and players exploit those to get tons of Money...

[@sgpch1983]

im not ok with grinding.. thats why i stopped playing mmorpgs! if elite doesnt stop to be grindy i vote for burning fronter offices down! *rage*

[@Beer_Dad1975]

I don't mind engineering changes so much, I think they are a marginal improvement - but C&P is all shades of fucked up. Not interested in the Guardian weapons and systems at this stage of the game - they seem just not good enough to warrant the effort at the moment.

[@VindicatorJones]

C&P is a work in progress.. Yes, some elements are pretty messed up, but I know they are going through it bit by bit... The whole guardians thing could have been so much better.. Its a missed opportunity by Frontier.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

I think I am still just bitter after my $15Mcr rebuy a couple of weeks ago when an NPC randomly smashed into me when I was exiting the station at about 108 on the green side in a straight line, got done for what I guess must have been murder (can't see what it was once you are in the detention centre?), station opened fire immediately, re-buy screen, half hour flight to get back to where I was. At least they fixed the Wanted scan before firing thing (mostly). It's still the game that brought me back to gaming after a long hiatus, so I love it despite it's flaws. No doubt I'll get to the guardian stuff eventually, right now still grinding for my first billion.