THE Guide to Buying Secret Lairs | Everything You Need to Know Before Buying Secret Lair Product

[@Glamerth]

I have a 5 second guide to Secret Lairs! Don’t buy, just proxy ❤️ thank you for coming to my TED talk

[@brendans1983]

I want my money back

[@JadeHex]

Only secret lair i bought is the Extra Life one, something like 2 Craterhooves for $50 when the cheapest is like $40 for 1, and I bought three I will use them all eventually, plus the mulldrifter is very cute.

[@abderianagelast7868]

I thought about getting that one, but between not having the money at the time and the significant controversy around the charity that was chosen for the secret lair, I decided to pass.

[@brendans1983]

I didn't get it because the artwork is terrible. Craterhoof with a picture of a turd on it.

[@bendiv7999]

Same here. I also bought the Last extra Life because teferis protection+ consecrated Sphinx+ Amulett of vigor and collected company. Insane value and this year too+ doing something good

[@bye1551]

@@brendans1983 they were drawn by kids dude, it was for charity. Not cool.

[@brendans1983]

@@bye1551 whoa, back up son. I never once said anything about the artists themselves. I hope acting like the Morality Police gets you some likes. I have 2 kids, older now, but I still have their drawings like this artwork we are discussing. I have a picture my son drew of me with 3 hands, one with 10 fingers and the other 2 have 5. Sorta looks like the Craterhoof. It's cute, cos it's MY son's picture, but it's a turd of a picture. If someone wanted to spend $30+ on my sons artwork to be placed on a card, well... isn't that what the whole proxy argument is? Draw your own, equally impressive, picture and get it even cheaper.

[@benkonz488]

I've found a way if fixing the Pringles problem pretty much 100 percent. Use boveda 62 percent humidity bags, unsleeve the cards and put them in a Tupperware box with the bag for a few days, the cards should be normal after that.

[@xaxscratchxax926]

Wait really? They don't re-pringle when the humidity changes again?

[@benkonz488]

@@xaxscratchxax926 I double sleeve them right after the flatten. They do have a tendency to re-pringle after about a month, even when double sleeved in a sealed deck box.

[@NitpickingNerds]

I want to try this but I don’t know what Boveda is lol

[@kingragnork]

@@NitpickingNerds sounds like cheese.

[@jimbryant2157]

I have seen more reduced price foils on Ebay lately because of the curling. I used to love foils, but I would much rather have either the extended art or the showcase versions of any card.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Agreed, foil are nice but the curling makes them not sleeve playable

[@TheeKrix]

U just hit the nail on the head sir. Their foils are consistently inconsistent and curled and regular versions are bent and uncared for. For a premium product, every order should be like the next and previous flaws should be taken care of by this point.

[@BenjaminJohnSteel]

is she playable in modern?

[@xaxscratchxax926]

The black box packaging for the old secret lairs is the perfect size to fit a double sleeved commander deck in and still have some room left over. Have a few decks in these boxes.

[@NitpickingNerds]

I miss that packaging

[@DaGraveCrowder]

I have found that the best way to fix foils that curl away from you when viewed from the front is to place them in a warm, humid chamber so they absorb moisture and flatten, then reshape them by flatting in a textbook. My chamber consists of a plastic food container (clean) with another smaller container inside. The bottom of the larger container has a paper towel soaked in warm water. I place the cards inside the smaller container

[@Dylfunkle]

I do similar to soften and pin dead insects.

[@daguynexdoor]

@@Dylfunkle that's a cool fact i didn't know i needed to know, thanks

[@Dylfunkle]

@@daguynexdoor I'm not sure if you're being ironic, but if it was actually helpful or interesting I'm glad you enjoyed it. = P

[@RiskyComment]

First Secret Lair I bought was Kaleidoscope Killers came with an extra Stained Glass Teferi in it worth 75$. One of the best value purchases I've ever made.

[@TheeKrix]

Only worth $30 now. Secret Lairs aren’t as great as these guys make it out to be

[@lordfrederik733]

@@TheeKrix I'm sure you mean every single card of the Secret Lair :) Otherwise 300 might be closer to it than 30.

[@NitpickingNerds]

It is one of the top valued secret pairs of all time!

[@NitpickingNerds]

@@TheeKrix the secret lairs sell for $30 retail but after they stop selling them go up.

[@jonpearson6279]

16:54 "it's like a little hat for the rest of your deck" I will never use any other description. Beautiful.

[@IrrelevantGeOff]

Ahh just after I bought my first lol. Personally I love Mark Poole's art and jumped at the chance to grab his collection on TCG player using the affiliate link in the description. Now I am excited to add more secret lairs to the collection!

[@NitpickingNerds]

We appreciate you and Mark Poole 😊

[@WoolyCaterpillar]

Do you guys ever think about the fact that you have enough subscribers to fill a stadium? It's been awesome to see the channel grow :)

[@daguynexdoor]

You've got to change the humidity of the card. If it's curled towards the foil, they are too moist. The reverse they are too dry. It's really easy to "fix" the dry ones. Once you get the moisture level to about 60%-65% they should flatten out on their own, then just perfect sleeve them to hopefully keep them that way for quite some time

[@matix0239]

The arcane SL was worth it for one card, Rhystic Study running for almost $40 itself. Buying the whole set for $30 you save money!

[@zonimi]

There are so many aspects to Secret Lairs it could take hours to dissect it all. Basic Lands - Purrfection set - unexpected hits and misses - functionally unique cards - the new astrological sign format - predictions on future - cutting out the local game stores etc...

[@NitpickingNerds]

That is fair, though getting them direct from them most likely keeps them cheaper

[@zonimi]

@@NitpickingNerds That was exactly the problem with From the Vault. $35 suggested price that stores sold for $80-100 on release. The question is: how do they support the LSG while ensuring the product is available at the suggested price for the customer upon release?

[@stfinalwrath]

The other thing to keep in mind with these is they are print to order. So some lairs might have 400,000 copies floating around, while another may only have 100,000 copies, so they can be a more limited print as well.

[@pauldyson8098]

My sister's birthday was yesterday. She appreciates the shoutout. She doesn't play Magic (though she likes that my Mina and Denn deck was inspired by the two of us getting drunk and wrecking shit at her wedding a few years back), but her husband's from upstate, so she says you guys are chill.

[@thrillhouse4151]

You can get a good deal on the singles if you wait til the time the first batch is mailed out, I got my bird watching Swan Song for cheaper than the other versions when it came out.

[@esrohm6460]

8:30 got you you said grave titan is especially good in commander.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Nope 👎 lies all lies! Smearing our good grave Titan hating name

[@drewwalters6330]

Imagine being born February 29th and only getting a shoutout from the nerds once every 4 years....

[@ColorwaveCraftsCo]

I’m very picky about spending that much money on cards. The only secret lair I’ve purchased is the Prime Slime one back in 2020 cuz that art is so sick and unique. I also liked the ones that look like old movie posters, but I don’t really have any decks to put those cards in.

[@samduthie]

"grave titan" ... great reprints, all solid cards @ 8:30. You guys have changed

[@gibbysg8143]

I personally really like secret lairs. Have they whiffed on over pricing some of them? Absolutely. And I have passed on plenty. But I have also got several and when they put solid stuff in, I really enjoy getting some bling and needed reprints. Soon we have to see smothering tithe, dockside extortionist, ancient tomb in secret lairs and any of those with a few other solid cards for $30 seems pretty sweet to me 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@NitpickingNerds]

I want all of them in a secret lair!

[@daguynexdoor]

I'm just counting down the days until you guys wish me a happy birthday. 1 week and a day to go!!!

[@vl00dthedragon]

I have a whole deck of foiled boat cards but what I do is when I put them away I stacked the cards where one card is facing another card face and then the next card is back to back repeating until the entire deck is stacked like that leave it alone for a week and they flattened out. Whenever I take the deck out and play with it the ball will slowly come back but I can get seven hours of playtime before that happens. Until then they’re flat and you can’t tell if they’re foil or not also the They’re double sleeved

[@bye1551]

I like that little correction at the end you did Joe. As someone who doesn't have much disposable income (as in, every few months I can afford to buy something nice for myself) it's nice to hear that little "not everyone does" and an acknowledgement of the poorer magic players. They're cardboard, I proxy.

[@kapiatgatas]

It's not only the cards shown that I and others are buying. People forgets the secret card. Yes I opened several 2021 SLs and I got more foil basic LANDS compared to 2020 foil stained glass PLANESWALKER. Yes, I'm pissed that its lands but I was able to get a few of the BLUEPRINT cards. I consider it breakeven. Considering the 2022 SL Horoscope lands, I'll pass and go big on Unfinity Shock Lands.

[@matthiasjaschke1471]

I only bought 2 secret lairs so far: kaleidoscope killers and the coin flip deck

[@NitpickingNerds]

You had a large gap 😅

[@stfinalwrath]

The biggest recommendations I could give to take into consideration when thinking about buying a lair drop would be one of the two following, if you're looking to make an investment financially, I would recommend the cards be checked against any past reprints, and it's price fluctuations and how long the card drops in price, for how long it stayed at a lower price, and it's consistency to maintain a high price, even if it's been reprinted. If the card or cards you're buying it for maintain a value of the price of the lair itself, then it might be worth picking up to resell down the road. And if they do well enough you could potentially sell the cards individually for more money than the sealed drop itself. Or if you want a card or cards you maybe don't have or you want a new art for something and it's worth the expense it would cost you to buy a drop for a card or a couple cards, then go ahead and do so if you have the extra cash to throw around. Why not.

[@stfinalwrath]

Yeah, the signets are great. Totally flat, and all worth like 20-30$. It's kinda nuts. I got the whole drop in foil and 2 non foils from that whole drop. Didn't pull a reversed viscera seer unfortunately. Meanwhile one random person got 2 of them. And they're going for 5,000$.

[@marine5546]

My biggest issue with the Secret Lairs is that it takes so long for WOTC to make and ship the cards. How long does it take to print and ship a card when you already have the design figured out?

[@metaphics]

I couldn’t speak to production, but I decline to buy more than one until the previous secret lair ships out. That helps reduce the amount of money I drop on secret lairs.

[@forloveofthepage2361]

I missed the Extra Lives Lair and was very sad. I really liked the concept of kids art converted to pro art.

[@NitpickingNerds]

They are super cute ☺️

[@maxmazzel]

I have had 0% curling on my foil Secret Lairs. I live in Europe though so it might just be a case of using a different printing press.

[@tylerisdrawing9913]

I ordered the Every Dog Has Its Day secret lair and they came curled to shit. I sent WOTC support an email regarding the quality and included pictures. They sent me a replacement that was also curled. So, for what it's worth, if you can handle the foils and uncurl them somehow, they DO have customer support regarding secret lairs you've ordered from them. I'm pretty sure you need an Order number from them however.

[@chillinon3263]

On the foils, I think the climate you live in and where the card’s printed is a factor too. My Johannes Voss foil lair came perfectly flat, but I’m from Wales

[@randyb4191]

The strixhaven gold non foil bling is the best alt artwork to come out recently change my mind.

[@davidmaynard8876]

Im a fan of the Dracula 3 drop they had. Exquisite blood cheapest version is still over 30 bucks. And u got a 16 dollar phyrexian tower. And I dig the Dracula art so in my opinion when the one chase card is more expensive than drop, it was worth it.

[@danielbeeson1230]

What do you think about the Secret Lair commander precon?

[@JustAnEyeMtG]

Perhaps ironic that this far, the only secret lair I’ve purchased is MSCHF. Ironic in that you guys didn’t like it, anyway. I thought the art is sweet on all of them and I love that they’re special foils (etched and such) rather than standard foils. Well, the gold plains I could take or leave, but the rest… now I just have to decide whether I keep it sealed or open it. 😅

[@robertt.4176]

I had a damaged SL (signets) and their refund policy was kind of garbage so I stopped ordering them. Signets were very blurry and the rouges passage had chunks of foil missing.

[@jaggededge11]

I really do love a lot of the Secret Lairs but the pricing is really steep (Especially when it comes to basic lands). I wanted the Pixel-art snow lands, but couldn't justify shelling out ~$200 just to obtain a playset. On the other hand, there are ones where the value is insane along with the awesome artwork (Like Teferi's Time Trouble, Grixis Lands or the Praetors). A ended up buying 4 of the Praetors because I sold off my 2 Iconic Masters sets (And still had money left over). I also bought 4 of Teferi's Time Trouble because I really loved the artwork (And the cards themselves were something I was planning on picking up anyways). I ended up pulling a Shiftfoot Boots from my Teferi's, so it ended up being even more of a bonus.

[@wesbogenreif1701]

I was able to pick up the praetors SL separately for cheaper then sold as a whole

[@keithhitchcock4596]

I had to cancel the extra life secret lair unfortunately due to it needing to being paid, just as my financial situation was in the worst position it had been all year :(. I do enjoy my Signets tho!

[@forloveofthepage2361]

Foil for sealed product and standard to actually play with. Foil product is just so valuable so long as you never open the product to find the pringling.

[@jarendavidson5758]

NEW NITPICKING NERDS VIDEO!

[@HomeCookinMTG]

I kind of want the phyrexian one, elesh norn is one of my favorite cards, and the secret lair one has a sweet border.

[@TheeKrix]

🤔 how can u say if you buy a SL and keep it sealed they will be worth it n 5 yrs when SL hasn’t been out for 5 yrs

[@DracoMagna]

Was going to purchase a secret lair just for the phyrexian art, but decided against it. Living north of the US it’s tough shipping wise and the risk of getting a tariff slapped on it. Feels bad…

[@innarrixl6753]

The foils Pringle...the etched foils usually don't.

[@NitpickingNerds]

That’s been our experience too

[@Murmaider4]

Waiting patiently for my Secret Lair Craterhoof that I paid for months ago… any day now…

[@andrewkenny3544]

Same

[@Kristallini]

I bought the Secret Lairs of Seb McKinnon and Johannes Voss cause I really like their artworks in general and wanted to express my support for them (too bad Noah Bradley was cancelled and will never get his own SL), and especially the McKinnon one with the extreme cool "Damnation" is absolutely worth it. I wanted the "Ponder" from Black is Magic cause Rielle the Everwise, my very first Commander, is in the artwork, so I bought the whole thing and sold the Teferi and Kaya, so in the end I paid under 10 bucks for 5 beautiful cards XD

[@NitpickingNerds]

Seb is getting cancelled right now as well

[@Kristallini]

@@NitpickingNerds Yeah, until now Wotc hasnt posted anything official, but it makes me really sad we lost another good man to the dark side T_T

[@NitpickingNerds]

@@Kristallini we will see how things play out

[@elipetrou9308]

I got the praetor one, pretty awesome buy. Still wanted the seb one but I ain’t gonna get it now unfortunately

[@AmbercoolPhotography]

Humidity levels have a huge impact on the condition of cards

[@tylermort2925]

We need more cats in your videos!!! So cute!

[@loquacity88]

HA! The MSCHF collab is one of the best looking sets ever. Dat blood moon.

[@drew-id]

Coin flip edh lair got me back into mtg

[@thecollectiblecollectabill2298]

so i just watched a 30 minute video waiting for an informative spreadsheet that you probably never even made to begin with!? i was EXTREMELY excited to see this "research" that you did but for some reason can't show, or leave a link to in the info.

[@meatrace]

Secret Lairs were really controversial when they started, and they probably still are. Honestly I always thought the idea was neat, even if I thought the price point is way off for a lot of them. The thing that strikes me as predatory now is that the most valuable Secret Lair cards are the random drops, like the Arcane Signet or the sketch Ornithopter, and now the Persistent Petitioners with Deathburger art (I want it so bad but it's like $80!). Cards you didn't know you could get and are basically random like a lottery unless you buy them to resell. They're effectively like lottery box toppers, which is exactly the OPPOSITE of the entire idea of buying singles directly from WotC.

[@NitpickingNerds]

I mostly like the lottery box toppers to be honest. They add a little flair

[@TheAmazingSpiderman87]

Only one I bought was the kaleidoscope sl, came with foil stained glass nb god pharoh. However the WDSL really left me salty especially after the RC response. Decided then I would no longer support the product.

[@BenjaminJohnSteel]

im scared I just purchased 4x Lara croft secret lairs thinking she would be playable in modern. Please tell me I can play her in modern forma...?

[@Hashbrown1682]

The first and only secret Lair I've bought is the Arcane one. I like the show and the artwork So I saw it as an absolute win

[@MasonSheffield]

This was a good video. Very informative.

[@Magicannon_]

I haven't been too into the current form of Secret Lairs. I did grab a pair of the big ones that had all of the alternate art Pathway lands for a full Pathway collection. That particular one at the time I believe was a better deal than buying them as singles. I feel that I want to like a basic land drop at some point to bling out a deck or two, but the value in how they sell them is just not bearable for me. You get far too little for far too high of a price. If it were like 10 lands and you could choose which type it'll probably be way more popular. They have to realize that there's so many different pieces of basic land artwork and special versions from regular sets that it's not too hard to buy them as singles for way less than the same number you want from lairs. And I just find the foil situation so sad. I wonder why other tcgs haven't had as many issues (beyond just WoTC cheaping out of course).

[@Choom89]

Bought Godzilla lands and shock lands, the metal albums were tempting.. but I don't see myself buying many more.

[@jamesgratz4771]

I got the grave titan from the secret lair. Because of the art I think it’s awesome. But honestly I wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t have the store credit lol

[@cathrinenicea1877]

I bought the one with white bordered Tibalt from my LGS for $10..just for the lol of it

[@brendans1983]

I would absolutely love it if they brought out a Secret Lair that was something like Mana Crypt, Imperial Seal, Phyrexian Altar, Ancient Tomb and Force of Will. Except all the artwork is seedy dikpix, like the one they edit into movies in Fight Club. Would love to see the players' response 🤣

[@NitpickingNerds]

Cheap staples but I have to look at dicks lol 😂

[@kylegantert4568]

Came for the Secret Lair info. Stayed for the cat pets.

[@justdomino1513]

I had to get the lionin warleader and MIRI secret Lairs

[@DDRmassa]

Ok, disclaimer, I take no responsibility if you damage your cards. That said, I used to work in a box factory and we would struggle with warp all the time, (the sheets of corrugate would curl). The root cause is a discrepancy in the moisture percentage in the layers of the sheet. A corrugated sheet is composed of two liners and a fluted medium. If one side ends up drier than the other, it will shrink more than the other side, causing it to warp towards the drier side. Foil cards are similar, there's a thin foil layer, the face of the card, a body, and a back image. These are all laminated together using an adhesive. The thing that causes a problem with foil cards is the foil, itself. It's very thin plastic while the rest of the card is paper and isn't affected by drying out. It will stay the same size regardless of outside conditions. The paper side, however, will almost guarantee shrinkage of at least a little bit because there's added moisture from the adhesive used in the process of making the cards. So the solution becomes, how can I change the moisture content of the card so the size of the back side of the card is equal to the size of the foil layer. If the card bends away from the face of the card, almost always the case, you need to add moisture to the card so the back will expand. I've seen success by putting a card or cards in an open plastic container, get a second container or cup with water and a sponge in it, put both of those separately into another container and close it. Make sure the sponge is sticking out of the water a bit to act as a wick to help promote a higher humidity in the container. After a couple days your cards should be flat. If they've over curled and are more warped towards the face of the card, you need to put them in a lower humidity environment and they'll go back the other way.

[@roberth7054]

I am STILL Waiting for my purchase for MSCHF in November - they took my money and sent an email saying I'd get another email when shipped - wtf, first time and never again - cash grab that treats the customers like leftovers.

[@whitneypanda]

I got a double sided foil, and it’s one of the only ones I’ve gotten that I’m like wow so nice this is beautiful and flat 😂 the lands in the combo packs are the worst I’ve seen.

[@rushmgl]

thank you for giving the cat scritches 🥺

[@riverswater5688]

Yeah… I no longer buy any foil secret lairs; I’ve been screwed over hard. I have gotten many curled and worse still, in the secret lair that had teferri’s protection, all of mine were cloudy/foggy looking and you could barely distinguish the art. I only buy non-foils now. Sad that card fakers do a better job with fools than wizards

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

I have bought 3: Womens Day- Meren is my Waifu Seb McKinnon- It's Seb McKinnon Heavy metal posters - Thraximundar! Now I just buy singles of SL :P

[@littlemrdoom5997]

I was distracted by the cat 10/10

[@williambosma8726]

My guide to buying Secret Lairs: just don’t. (But I’m not gonna stop you, you do you friends)

[@Dylfunkle]

They currently have five basic lands for USD$30 nonfoil and I have no idea who that is targeted at.

[@NitpickingNerds]

I believe it is targeting 🐳🐳🐳

[@Dylfunkle]

@@NitpickingNerds that's it, I'm telling Greenpeace.

[@chiefbedroom553]

HAPPY BRITHDAY!

[@epicness877]

Did i just catch the nerds saying Grave Titan is a great card for commander? 8:22

[@All_that_is_Magic]

Interesting, i myself like some but not all.

[@oniinside123]

is the cat interested in knowing about Secret Lairs too? XD

[@Greg501-]

There is no guide, you buy the product if you think you'll like it

[@RecoveringSpartan]

Great video and great discussion. However, I strongly disagree with Beezy's concerns regarding promo versions. I agree that FOMO and constantly resetting the "coolest" or "rarest" version of a card is a bit predatory, but as long as the base game piece is accessible I think we as consumers have a responsibility to own our own definition of "cool" or "desirable" alternate versions. I think WotC does run the risk of alienating collectors who feel exploited but that should be a WotC problem not a consumer problem in my opinion

[@d.b.s.6381]

Ki ki stop making me love you so much.😼

[@travissmith1303]

Well.... with the money you saved on those football tickets.... you should have a nice chunk laying around!

[@davidmay1225]

The praetor lair was legit, I bought five of them.

[@Npocommander]

I bought the walking dead, the shards shock lands, and stranger days

[@maxdeckman]

Reverse Viscera Seer cards are being sold on ebay for $10,000+... ROUGH

[@andrewroy9263]

I bought out of time. Holy heck, I didn't realize I still wouldn't have it yet. Man, this process is weird

[@derrickbrown4980]

I never buy the foil. To scared after commander legends lol

[@jasonlevesque6340]

I have never bought a secret lair and probably never will. I think it's a predatory product, and wotc clearly makes it choices based on the secondary market. Generally speaking every secret lair has 1 card you really want and 5-6 bulk rares that you probably won't play with special art.

[@travisbrown1893]

What if you just fill your entire deck with all secret lair foils so that your whole deck is curled? Problem solved!

[@dasfabelwesen]

That is a helpful video

[@psychozen7169]

Only buy secret lairs if the following are true 1 you like the art 2 it cheaper then buying the card secondary market 3 you know your going to flip them for profit. 4 if your going to meet up with Joe and Breezy just to troll them

[@pauliebleeker5442]

I think it's a cool product, although I rarely like the art style. I just wish wotc would always give some of the SL money to charity. So far I bought black is magic, international women's day and extra life.

[@obadijahparks]

The only real problem is that you have to wait a year to get them.

[@TheUltimateRey]

Don’t buy them if you like the art then get proxy cards

[@Uhavefriendss]

Here's my guide to buying secret lairs: fucking don't do it. Wotc can get stuffed

[@UnexpectedDanger]

Mostly they're just a sucky waste of money, plus having to wait 2 years for it to ship, and having the quality be a total crapshoot.

[@circolocofanatic]

Bought almost every one and made enough money on them to keep one of each for free. The ones with the worst value gives the best value when reselling. Regarding the mschf plains. Just wait. It’s going to be one of the most expensive secret lairs cards ever because of you don’t getting it. 😂

[@Alice-le6pe]

Guide to buying secret lairs: don't