The Harden Trade - Bill Simmons & Zach Lowe

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[@howardlio4971]

Congrats dude, you got a shoutout today from Bill Simmons on the pod!

[@Andy-ux4lm]

Only reason im here lol

[@20775046]

This is nuts! At like 25 mins, Zach lowe says he'd keep ibaka and Westbrook is going to continue to be a better player than Harden. OMG he was sooo wrong

[@mitchgoudreau7670]

I love Zach but yeah that might be his worst take ever.

[@concernn]

Westbrook was 90% of the player James harden was so it’s really not that crazy. Sure, maybe if they chose James over Russell they may have brought home a chip, but that wasn’t a choice that ever presented itself.

[@omieg89]

I never understood why Ibaka was the one they targeted. Even when Harden was their sixth man, it was obvious he was a special talent.

[@orangepekoe8292]

omieg89 Two top ten wings and a big defensive presence in Ibaka was the way forward going off conventional wisdom. Ibaka looked special for a few years too. I agree it was a mistake, but I'm not entirely convinced it was obvious.

[@jayt3972]

There’s still 11 other guys on the team, they couldn’t get rid of anyone?

[@tfi4310]

Jay Tang pretty top heavy team, they couldn’t have traded bums really. Pretty pissed he was traded

[@drevm7991]

@@orangepekoe8292 It was obvious to most people when it happened.

[@drevm7991]

@@jayt3972 To trade you have to take salary back and not many others made a lot on those teams. They would’ve had to pay him more again not long after too and that would’ve gone way over the tax. A small market team had it all and they gave it away, can’t complain now that stars don’t wanna go there

[@buddyl3340]

Agree, H- Town's gain. Harden was upset, sad that he was traded

[@mrgabgutierrez]

oh a young harden for young klay trade is INTERESTING

[@maxdurk4624]

In Bill and Zach's Pyramid Podcast on The Book Of Basketball 2.0 feed Bill brings up a great point: The pick OKC got in this trade I think ended up becoming the 12th pick (Steven Adams, who ended up being an above average to well above average starter for them) and the 13th pick in that draft, so literally the VERY next pick, was Giannis Antetokounmpo. So much for what Zach said about those picks not typically having much value!

[@drevm7991]

Typically is the operative word. How many drafts have elite players at 12? Also Bill also says on those podcasts a lot: The draft is usually a complete crap shoot. Look at Atlanta letting Luka’s pick go for Young, look at the Spurs getting Kawhi late, look at Jordan not going first, look at Bargnani going higher than others, etc.

[@maxdurk4624]

@@drevm7991 You're talking out of both sides of your mouth a little bit there. You are saying 12th picks don't offer much value but yet you are citing examples of teams letting great players slip by them and going later than they should. Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro, Devin Booker, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kawhi Leonard, Donavan Mitchell, SGA, Michael Porter, Klay Thompson, Zach LaVine, and Jusef Nurkic were all picked in that range in the last decade.

[@lukegriffin8629]

anyone here from Bills most recent podcast?

[@bludgeonedfate708]

Lucas Cranmer same

[@Shaheen767]

Crazy how Curry was viewed in the league back then. Zach Lowe was talking about his as if he was a bad contract.

[@wititorac]

At the time he was an Injury prone player and while good he wasn't elite as he is now.

[@ogbmt]

I don't think Zach Lowe was saying he was a bad contract. I think it was before he signed his (discount) 5 year 55m contract. So I think Zach was just saying he would become expensive (ie max extension) like the other contracts the Warriors already had, not that Curry was a bad contract among their expensive contracts.

[@94mikless]

Tears

[@bobbylight111]

They'd have three MVP level guys 28 or younger

[@drevm7991]

Westbrook was an empty calorie MVP to me but yeah. Who knows if it would’ve worked but you have to at least try. I wonder if Harden is happier now being much richer or if he’d be happier with the potential rings. I still think KD leaves not long after just like he did GSW. He seems like a guy who is never satisfied or comfortable.

[@connortaaffe9384]

I doubt harden would've become the player he did

[@Coolquip43]

What a what-if at 22:00

[@ogbmt]

It would have been pretty insane, but I still think OKC would have been better by keeping Harden and just trading away Perkins for a smaller contract. The real question with that is: how good do Golden State get with Curry/Harden/Draymond?

[@Coolquip43]

That's my point, its interesting for both sides. Honestly, Klay is the perfect superstar to put next to Russ and KD

[@Juice-ig3jz]

Man that would have been crazy

[@maxdurk4624]

Bill has said recently that there was no chance for GS trading Klay for Harden. There was a better chance of OKC getting Bradley Beal.

[@tfields8910]

Sam Presti was sharp enough to draft Harden and Westbrook... then dumb enough to give Harden away which allowed Durant to escape

[@ogbmt]

I think he was under a lot of pressure from the management to reduce the luxury tax. If you look at basically any other trade Presti has done, he has literally always done a good job.

[@WorldwideJamal]

It was not Presti. It was Clay Bennett going cheap.

[@shadow_5519]

VideoSensei honestly i hate to say this but I'm happy that cheap man is gone..

[@hankscorpio7767]

Sam Presti was sharp enough to draft Harden and Westbrook... then dumb enough to give Harden away and kept Westbrook instead which allowed Durant to escape*

[@jayt3972]

ogbmt there were 11 other guys on the team that they could replace or trade to get under tax line.

[@mksb42]

28:27 lmaoooo how times have changed.

[@ogbmt]

Yeah I remember him being on the minimum in 2013/14

[@concernn]

Trading the dude that was single handedly responsible for beating the spurs dynasty while coming off the BENCH is still to this day one of the worst decisions made by one of the best GM’s of our time.

[@bobbylight111]

man harden and curry in golden state and klay/westbrook/durant in okc

[@drevm7991]

And All Star Draymond too. I still think KD leaves not long after.

[@maxdurk4624]

You are my hero. How did you get this?

[@eboooo]

It was dumb at the time

[@PipeBomb416]

Michael Eyob and still dumb today

[@teezharris3301]

Mann if okc kept him don’t blame Sam Presti blame the fuckn owner

[@mygaffer]

They were a playoff team.

[@Juice-ig3jz]

User a finals team

[@eboooo]

An team for the ages

[@benjaminlindsey6573]

Lmao

[@brendanjudd972]

They got Steven Adams out of it.

[@Ivrezyizcold]

Brendan Judd Adams for Harden ...seems fair

[@nalimlattarai2873]

Shut up

[@drevm7991]

That won them a lot of games right? Oh wait.