The history of Ford in Cologne - Ford during the 1930s & WWII - The post war era - 1950s, 60s, 70s

[@geephlips]

It’s kind of mind blowing to learn that American companies like Ford and GM were simultaneously producing vehicles for the Allies and the Nazis.

[@orionwarren4244]

My thoughts exactly. People were kept in the dark back then and honestly? I think they were better off not knowing what pawns the masses really are. Like we're all too aware of now...

[@jmikronis7376]

Yep, the war machine, making $$$$$$. The global elites.

[@dyer2cycle]

Not really. Make twice the money that way, and regardless of which side won, could stay in business...

[@michaelengel3407]

Fritz Theilen was a member of "Edelweißpiraten" who were persecuted by Nazis during 2nd world war. He was honored with Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1983. He passed in 2012. Agathe Hartfeld was the younger sister of Trude Herr. Trude Herr was a well known actress, entertainer and singer in Germany in the 1950s and 1960s.

[@haroldbridges515]

Yes, Ford collaborated with the enemy during WWII. Roosevelt's Secretary of the Interior, Harold Ickes, had investigated the collaborators and wanted to prosecute, but Roosevelt thought it would be too demoralizing for the American public to learn that some of the leading American corporations were collaborating with the Nazis. In addition to Ford, the collaborators were Standard Oil, the Rockefeller's Chase Manhattan Bank, IBM whose punch card machines tallied inmates of Auschwitz, and others. Ford's collaboration extended beyond the Cologne factory. They made trucks for the Nazis in France. Prescott Bush, father to future president, George H. W. Bush, and himself later a US senator from Connecticut founded and ran the Union Bank, together with Averill Harimann which laundered money for the Nazis until it was shut down early in the War under the Trading with the Enemy Act. Probably there were others. None of them were prosecuted or faced any adverse consequences of any kind. The American public did not learn of the collaboration of the American until the 1983 publication of the book "Trading with the Enemy" by Charles Higham.

[@dyer2cycle]

"Trading with the Enemy"..interesting, I haven't read that one..and ironic...aren't we doing that right now?....

[@paulharrison6452]

Superb documentary. Thank you so much for posting

[@michelberard7496]

I love these documentaries,thank you

[@georgemiller151]

This video doesn’t make clear that the Ford Motor Company lost control of its German operations after the U.S. entered the war in December, 1941. However, prior to that the Ford Motor Company made substantial profits manufacturing war materials for the Nazis. It’s ironic that prior to 1933 the Ford plant was 40% owned by I.G. Farben, a firm whose board was partially Jewish, and the architect of the factory built the city’s synagogue. I.G. Farben was referred to by the Nazis as “an international capitalist Jewish Company”. I.G. Farben purged its Jews and became a major donor to the Nazi party, eventually enslaving over 30,000 people at Auschwitz. Henry Ford was forever tarnished by his antisemitism and sympathy for Nazism. The descendant firms of I.G. Farben still exist: Agfa, BASF, Bayer and Sinofi.

[@OneAdam12Adam]

Yes they do. German made products are good quality products. I will continue to buy German quality and innovative products like: Volkswagen, Miele, Henkel, Volkl, Aldi, etc. The foolish German companies that outsourced their labor to China have destroyed the trust and their brands.

[@oliverpetroski4205]

We used to have a German built Ford from 1984. My grandfather was working in Germany where he bought it. I drove that car right after getting my driving license. We had to sell it few years ago due to its high fuel consumption. I still have a suiltcase full of unused new parts and the owners manual in German.

[@notsosilentmajority1]

Well done. It's nice to see productions like this still being made.

[@Brera011]

Being from '54, I can remember a lot of these cars from the 12M onwards. They were a familiar site in the Netherlands.

[@dukecraig2402]

What part of the Netherlands are you from? Have you ever been to Nijmegen? I did the 100 mile march there in 1984, what a fabulous city it was to be in and the last day of the march the city partied that night like I've never seen in my life, I'm still hung over from that one. Saw Golden Earring that night in the big square in the middle of the city, what a time that was, and what a fabulous show they put on, the march and the city on the night of the last day was an experience I'll never forget.

[@noahwail2444]

Very interesting, and well done. My fathers first factory-new car was a Ford Taunus 12M from 1966, build in Cologne, with a v4 engine. It served him well for almost 20 years.

[@-oiiio-3993]

Henry Ford 2 was offered the entire Volkswagen works during postwar Allied occupation. He didn't want it.

[@g.n.b.3351]

The VW werk had been heavily bombed and with a fairly intact Koln factory Ford didn't need the extra capacity. The future was uncertain, so the "economic miracle" that would develop was by no means certain at wars end.

[@clarkhull7546]

interesting, I did not know that. Would have been funny to see a flathead 4 in a VW beetle. Lol

[@jmikronis7376]

I would think he thought of it as dir@y l@undry. $ilth, $arbage

[@johnburrows1179]

Incredible. I had never heard this before. Thank you for posting this

[@herbertblasenbalc7188]

Real history is a very different affair from the high skool nonsense they spin to herd the sheeple.

[@dukecraig2402]

This was a very good and interesting documentary, it would have been nice however if the narration would have made it a bit more clear that when Hitler nationalized everything industrial in Germany he essentially stole the Cologne plant off of Ford and therefore Ford did not profit from the German war machine during the war, it's a ridiculous notion to think that Hitler would have been sending a monthly check to Ford in Dearborn Michigan during the war especially if you have any idea of just how cash strapped Germany was in the years leading up to and throughout the war, to think that the very man who took over other nations would have had some kind of a conscious that compelled him to send monthly profits to Ford during the war is actually beyond ridiculous, it's ludicrous.

[@rexdrabble4988]

Germany was very well financed Hitler got FORDS MONEY

[@smcic]

Then why did the US avoid bombing the factory?

[@None-zc5vg]

Didn't the Western Allies pay post-war compensation to Ford for wartime damage to that company's factories in Germany and in German-occupied territories?

[@dannyc.jewell8788]

I just discovered that the Ford Explorer 1994 motor was made in Cologne

[@dyer2cycle]

I bought a new '86 Ranger that had a 2.9 "Cologne" V6...but it was made in Canada, not Germany...fairly durable, but it lacked any low end torque at all, and had a very narrow and "peaky" power band, overall pretty gutless for a pickup truck..especially behind the 4 speed overdrive automatic that was made by Renault in France, and grenaded on my TWICE before it had 80,000 miles on it....

[@asteverino8569]

What an interesting reveal. Thanks

[@JeffersonMartinSynfluent]

Henry Ford did not invent the moving assembly line. That credit falls to Charles Sorensen but like everything else, Henry Ford was there to claim he did it.

[@philipgates988]

No one said he invented the assembly line, only automotive mass production. If I remember right, the English invented interchangeable parts in gun manufacture, which led to sequential assembly. It’s like radar; who did it first.

[@sunsetlights100]

Electric cars were an option too back 1900s on then model went the other way.

[@lukepeita7026]

The assembly line line goes back to the Chinese and early Egyptians thousands of years ago

[@philipgates988]

@@sunsetlights100 Electric cats outperformed gas cars too. There was no infra structure to support them. In the US 70% of the people were farmers and large swaths of farmers didn’t have electricity until the 1950’s.

[@henryblack3974]

@@philipgates988 Strictly speaking it was the French around Napoleon’s time who came up with the ‘idea’ of gun mass production. It didn’t pan out too well.

[@jakespeed63]

Fascinating history

[@chrigdichein]

Super, vielen Dank dafür, vieles was ich mir als Kölner noch nicht recht vorstellen konnte. Aber das die Wehrmacht Panzer mit Ford Motoren fuhr..... unglaublich

[@Richard-pe4cx]

a lot of US manufactures had and continued before during and after WW2 ,I BELIEVE STANDARD OIL CAME UP WITH FUEL ADDITIVES THAT ENABLED LOW GRADE AVIATION FUEL TO BE USED BY THE LUFTWAFFE ,from the uk cheers !

[@jmikronis7376]

Good ole Rockefeller. Not!!

[@jimeditorial]

Excellent report. Interesting and well balanced.

[@jroch41]

Great video & history lesson.

[@aldoovercomer5473]

This is the problem with large corporations where money is their God. They have no conscious about how their products are used or how hard the workers are treated as long as they are making money.

[@noelmcgarry456]

Very interesting and open, I was impressed about the information that was made available and amazed that it was considered secret and or not available due to its sensitivity. That the building was never bombed considering it was manufacturing materials of war being trucks for military use, would appear that Henry Ford had a toe in both financial gains coming in from Axis and Allies ?

[@benitomgomez3290]

As GM with Opel, , IBM , Standard oil, the pharmaceuticals and so on, and on., , ! !! 😁

[@dukecraig2402]

No he did not and that's exactly how all these conspiracies get started, it was pretty irresponsible of the producer's of this documentary not to make it a clear point that when Hitler nationalized everything in German industry he essentially stole the Cologne plant from Ford, do you really think that as cash strapped as Germany was in the immediate years leading up to and including the war that Hitler would have had a monthly check sent to Ford in Dearborn Michigan? Come on. Ford did not profit from production at the Cologne plant during the war, and as far as it not being bombed there was plenty of non essential production facilities that weren't bombed during the war, the bombs were saved for plants making weapons of destruction, they were too busy bombing aircraft and other essential war materials plants, wasting bombs on a truck plant would have been a waste since Germany never really had the trucks they needed and were always reliant on horses before and throughout the war, there was plenty of other things that were far more important to target than a truck plant since they never had as many as they needed anyways, and with the European Recovery Act also known as the Marshall Plan the US essentially paid for rebuilding most of Europe after the war anyways, it's ridiculous to think that they purposely didn't bomb the plant at Cologne because it was originally built by Ford years before, if they had bombed it the cost of rebuilding it would have been a drop in the bucket, that plant might be being presented as being a big deal in German automobile manufacturing in this documentary but for Ford it was the size of the outhouse behind the River Rouge plant in Detroit, trust me when I say that Fords future after WW2 wasn't dependent on whether or not they got their Cologne plant back in one piece after the war.

[@smcic]

It just proves who is really in charge.

[@bigredc222]

The allies knew it would help get the german economy going again after the war, they actually thought about that kind of stuff. Countries we beat wars are better off after we beat them than they were before the war. There's a funny movie from the 60s about a small country that declares war on the U.S. because they know after they lose America will pump tons of money into their economy.

[@jfv65]

Nice documentary. One point: if Ford does not start to make EV's soon and in great numbers it will become irrelevant on the European market. Then the production lines WILL stop.

[@stevep5408]

Drove a rental Fiesta on the southern California freeways. Felt like riding in a coffin!

[@adorabasilwinterpock6035]

Why

[@cameronduff884]

Tuff little town car though.

[@nlpnt]

The Honda Fit is an entire size bigger in terms of usable space on the same size footprint.

[@davidepittiglio8579]

Unbelievable history that could be relevant under the global circumstances in 2021

[@scott1357]

Great documentary

[@kiwidiesel]

I didn't realize Henry had a plant in Cologne during the war, rather controversial at the least.

[@cameronduff884]

I think a lot of companies were global by then, including General Motors, Goodyear, IBM, Standard Oil,Coca-Cola.

[@jmikronis7376]

He was making $$ selling car$ to them AND using labor there to do it.

[@johnsmith-mq4eq]

He got several million dollars from the U.S. Government just after the war for the bomb damage caused by American B 17 bombers during the war

[@None-zc5vg]

Maybe U.S. bomber-crews (who flew daylight raids on Germany) were kept away from German-controlled Ford and G.M. (Opel) plants, as is said to have been the case when John McCloy (who was in the J.P. Morgan family) forbade the bombing of Auschwitz, where the giant chemical conglomerate I.G. Farben had key manufacturing plants worked by the slaves (McCloy had been the I.G.'s U.S. lawyer pre-1942).

[@dyer2cycle]

Coca-Cola had factories in Germany, too...I have heard, that when the war started, the shipments of Coca-Cola syrup was cut off to the German factory...so the German Coke factory came up with a substitute...and Fanta was born. Yes, Fanta started life as a German/NSDAP product...

[@andy41417]

8:30 Model A Tudor in USA was all steel body.

[@hesavedawretchlikeme6902]

Conspiracy reality has been greatly covered up in history. There is so much that has not been openly known in due to control over: popular education, the global corporate businesses, media, and politics.

[@dukecraig2402]

When Hitler nationalized all German industry he basically stole the plant from Ford, Ford did not profit from the plant in Cologne during the war, there's no conspiracy there like people try to claim. Although the narration in this documentary doesn't exactly make a point of it it's when Ferdinand Porsche and his engineering team took over at the plant is the point at which it was essentially taken off of Ford and they no longer profited from it's production. It really wasn't right of the producers of this documentary to not make that point clear, it's things like that is why people believe that Ford did business with the Nazi's and profited from them during the war, they didn't.

[@OneAdam12Adam]

It's crazy and infuriating.

[@GrymsArchive]

That A.I. upscaling is harsh.

[@Jesussaveme1982]

Thank you for the post New subscriber

[@fazole]

I drove a German Ford sport wagon with manual transmission in 2010. No American Ford can compare. The power, handling, quality was no comparison. I should have bought one, driven it and imported as a used car. I know people who did that with BMWs and Mercedes. They claimed this used car import was cheaper than buying the high-end model in the States.

[@piercehawke8021]

Interesting history IMHO, especially showing a quick synopsis about the WW II forced labor. Needless to say; I hope that at least some of the surviving prisoners, received restitution in some honorable manner.

[@dukecraig2402]

And if they do that's entirely on Germany and not at all on Ford. People are too quick to claim that Ford supported and profited from the German military machine of WW2 and claim that Ford did business with the Nazi's throughout WW2, nothing could be further from the truth, the fact is once Germany started offensive operations and marching across other nations borders Hitler had already nationalized all German industries, in a nutshell he stole the Ford plant in Cologne. They make a quick and somewhat blurry point of that fact in this very documentary, the part where Ferdinand Porsche and his team took over engineering at the Cologne plant is when that happened. In the past 20 to 30 years people who love to bash America try to claim that Ford profited from the Nazi's during WW2 and made money from any of the plants they'd built there before the war, but the part they leave out of the story is where Hitler nationalized everything industrial, it's essentially at that point that for all intents and purposes he basically just stole the plant, it's engineering and tooling. To complicate matters a Russian or Ukrainian woman who was part of the slave labor force at a Ford plant in Germany (probably this one) some years back got a lawyer and attempted to sue Ford for restitution for her time working as a slave at the plant during the war, well if people are gullible enough to base what they think on what some slick lawyer tries to get away with then God bless their poor souls, because then they're also going to believe in shooters on grassy knolls and the CIA killing John F Kennedy, some people will always put conspiracies and gossip (which is all conspiracies are in the end) above facts and reality.

[@jmikronis7376]

Henry Ford’s use of forced labor when needed.

[@lengould9262]

No, of course not. That was Ford, a totally Nazi sympathizing and collaborating organization. One among many US organizations who fought directly against my uncle and his fellow members of the Canadian Air Force (tail gunner, Halifax bombers, combat).

[@johnkirkby4959]

The 4.0L OHC V-6 in my 2002 Ford Ranger was made in Cologne

[@pebear]

I had a 75 Capri when I turned 16. I loved it. It was a very peppy car.

[@cochinaable]

I loved that car! My aunt had a 75 Capri when I live with them in LA in 1977. It was a stick shift and my aunt and I were the only ones who could drive it. I baby'd that car.

[@philipgates988]

They had the 302 V8 I think and they were light.

[@markrossow6303]

To get cars into private ownership, South Korea brought in a lot of Cortinas and Granadas (European Granadas, not the horrible U.S. car that shared the name) 100% painted black Buyers were middle-aged or older Men, who might have learned to drive during mandatory military service, but otherwise had no experience, so they had young men, with white cotton gloves, as drivers I saw this in summer 1987. Well-to-do folks would be driven to the U.S. Army base golfcourse clubhouse at Yongsan, Seoul... . Any fender-benders were fixed in overnight body and paint shops south of the Han River (My parents 1983 Mercedes 300TD got a repair in one)

[@tyroniousyrownshoolacez2347]

Awesome. 👉👍✊. Thanks for sharing.

[@rexmyers991]

I bought my first new vehicle in 1967 - a Ford F-150 pickup. It was HORRIBLE. The alignment was grossly off, the gas tank leaked (inside the cab), the alternator had loose diodes, and the transmission need two hands to shift to first gear. This was when I drove it off the lot - right at closing time. I returned the next morning and was DENIED warrantee on all items. The dealer said I must have abused the truck. At five hundred miles the front end shimmied. I wrote letters to Ford to no avail. I finally gave up and traded it for a used Datsun pickup a year later. I will NEVER own another Ford. Learning Henry was a Nazi collaborator is further proof of an evil company.

[@sunsetlights100]

New car lemon Law would cover it these days.

[@dyer2cycle]

They didn't make an F-150 in 1967...look it up. Maybe it was an F-100?...1975 was the first year for the F-150, a slightly up-rated version of the 1/2 ton F-100 that had been produced since 1953, the purpose of which was to skirt around the new emissions laws...so, basically, the F-150 came into being because of the desire to get around emissions regulations...

[@markusfrombgen2967]

Sehr interessant, besonders für mich als Kölner und Ford-Fahrer. Tolle Bilder aus vergangenen Tagen und Jahren, besonders die Bilder Köln's und Umgebung, incl. der Autobahnen. Schade finde ich, dass es laut Videobeschreibung eine dt. Version sein soll, es aber nicht (!) ist. Man sollte nichts versprechen, was man nicht halten kann.

[@filmschatzarchiv]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXW9cqpue5dphbc

[@dauhm251]

Was fährst du denn für nen Ford?

[@markusfrombgen2967]

Danke für den Link. Kommt auf die Wunschliste 😄

[@markusfrombgen2967]

@@dauhm251 Tourneo Connect 1.6 Diesel , 18zoll Felgen + Motortuning

[@singendertanz5075]

Wo ist denn da die deutsche Fassung?

[@joshjedynak7978]

Nice work 8yrs of study I lernd43 mt

[@jamespetersen3933]

Very interesting.

[@brettnetherton398]

Bravo to the wartime saboteurs. Though Citroen did it better: they moved the dipstick mark 1cm lower, so the trucks wrecked their engines after only a short time

[@markrossow6303]

and put in too-few ballbearings, etc

[@fifthward1983]

maybe ford can offer the maverick pick up to the german market. these people are are supposed to be so practical yet they only see pick up trucks on tv or in the movies , (doesnt make sense) in other words a untapped market

[@fazole]

Most of the pick-ups are too big for narrow European roads and the cost of fuel is 2-3x higher in Germany than the US. Also Germany favors Diesel work vehicles which is a more efficient fuel and cheaper than gasoline. Those American pick-up trucks are just too big gas guzzlers. I have seen pictures of large pick-up trucks used in Swiss Ski areas, though.

[@dyer2cycle]

the "Maverick" isn't big, or gas guzzlers at all..in fact, it's barely even a pickup truck. Based on Escape, front wheel drive, transverse engine, unibody, 4 door sedan, with a tiny little "bed"...@@fazole

[@jmikronis7376]

Due to all that Henry Ford did, on both sides of the war, and harsh working conditions, just saying he was not liked is very much putting it lightly. My late dad told me he was very, very highly unliked. Or hat@d, $ated.

[@tanderson6442]

Had a Ford Explorer, hit a moose in it doing about 120 kph on a 2 lane highway, middle of winter, icy road, @ rush hour, oh ya, did I say it was the deadliest road in Alaska. Completely Sideways on 2 wheels in the opposite lane. I shoulda been dead. God and skill saved my life that day

[@shatbad2960]

Henry Ford was an amazing man who revolutionised the world of industry. He looked after his workers well and truly wanted peace The only reason he is viewed so critically, is his opposition to the banks and people who ran the world of finance.

[@cfox7811]

he was basically a war profiteer and a hater of jews. what makes you think he wanted peace?

[@jasontucher7011]

Is the narrator Peter Sallis?

[@JRCinKY]

Looks like the 8 th Airforce manage to intentionally Miss the factory. Too bad they couldn't Hit any thing they tried to Bomb.

[@dyer2cycle]

Maybe they were told to miss that one?

[@TheEthanman340]

Damn and to think this search started with me trying to learn about my Ford Explorer

[@Shane-zx4ps]

Nobody builds cars as good as the Japanese, particularly Lexus…

[@tanderson6442]

Mercedes i think are better.

[@beedalton9675]

I still have my 85 dodge truck... pfff you mean one of those fine japaneese clunker going down the street.. ....pearl harbor ..Toyota I'll never own japaneese car or a ford..Ford... his germany factory had slaves and were treated horrible and Ford knew about it

[@Norseman195]

My 1992 Ford Sierra was built at this plant. Lovely cars.

[@thomasschuler1238]

Fantastisch.

[@antiquitatenexpert8951]

Wow.

[@Filmbert]

Schade dass der Film hier in Englisch ist, die DVD die ich habe ist meine ich in deutscher Sprache.

[@filmschatzarchiv]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5jXgWpthrd0Z9k

[@gerrywood3584]

The ford lord

[@Micnify]

Ford is a Foreign Car? Seriously! Mic'21

[@dyer2cycle]

I guess technically, it is, if you live anywhere outside the U.S...even Canada...

[@gotj]

Esto documental es inglés eso está muy claro, porque si fuera alemán contaría las cosas de otra manera bien distinta.

[@fixedguitar47]

I work on the line at Ford. What do you want to know?

[@darrellenglish2704]

I have photos of Ford Workers protesting Ford getting OofGE

[@virian2010]

I wonder how many people know anything about the real history of Henry Ford, and his son Edsel? The history of Henry Ford, Ransom Olds , and John and Horace Dodge, Paints a Clear picture of the difficulty's Elon Musk, went threw building the Tesla, Automobile company. here in the USA. It was the Dodge, Brothers that built Oldsmobile autos, and all of the Fords, up until around 1918, This is when Dodge, and Ford, ran into Disagreements, and when Dodge, brothers started building their own auto manufacturing company in 1915. These Dodge Brothers had a machine shop where they built all of the things needed for others to build all of the parts and things for other Car Companies would need. It was Horace Dodge, who invented the Ball Bearings that are still in use today. In 1932 Henry Ford, Put together in Germany, where they started building Ford cars and trucks. This was just prior to Hitler, becoming the Chancellor of Germany. around 1932. You just don't hear much about the V/8 Ford, Flat-Head Engine being built that went into the cars and trucks, Just not all were named Ford. It is also interesting history how low key the schools here kept such a low level of the "Hate" Hitler, and Ford, had against the "Jewish", People. It appears Henry Ford, was in bed with Hitler all the way up and including World War Two. Several times I heard "Elon Musk", Mention how difficult it is to set up a Automobile Manufacturing Company, The Back Stabbing, and the people you run into Who will try and make it their business to make you "Fail". Including the President of the United States.

[@JPJ740]

... ride a bike - it's healthier (fahrrad fahren - es ist gesuender) ....

[@johnd.535]

2000 Ford explorer sport

[@tyrantwitness2482]

Ford Galaxy ! Don't need anything else !

[@dyer2cycle]

Yes, from the 1960's!...

[@fasttruckman]

How many German soldiers died because the truck they needed had been sabotaged at the factory.

[@gerrywood3584]

Very beautiful woman

[@davidyoung8521]

Had a 77 Fiesta in the US What a pile of junk. Terrible cheap interior. 4 speed trans whined. A real tin can going down the road. Parts were hard to get and Ford dealer didn't give good service. Burned a valve at 75K miles.

[@Shane-zx4ps]

We had those cars here in Ireland as well, they were only shit, the engines were from world war 2 technology noisy and clattery.

[@bluebear6570]

Sabotage is nothing to be proud of! I wonder how many people have lost their lives due to the sabotage done by this scum lot!

[@filmschatzarchiv]

Wasn't the war obviously lost after Stalingrad? How many people died, how many homes were destroyed because of the orders to fight to the last bullet?

[@Canhistoryismylife]

ok fascist

[@MrDaiseymay]

@@filmschatzarchiv Like Stalin, Hitler was completely devoid of any shred of humanity. He once said, I paraphrase--''The individual doesn't matter, it's the survival of the State, that matter's'', said the Coward, who ordered ANYTHING of use, to the invader's, to be destroyed, even food. So many German civilians died of hunger. Stalin said after the battle of Stalingrad, 'I've got more Troops, than Hitler has Bullets.''

[@-oiiio-3993]

The Nazis were the "scum lot".

[@electrolytics]

@@filmschatzarchiv You're looking at it in hindsight. There were enough people in the leadership who were hoping for some miracle. Surrender with conditions, a ceasefire, some strategic turnaround, etc etc.. Yes there were plenty of generals who knew the war was lost, but there are plenty of people with a fighting spirit, who do not quit, especially when they know the consequences might be horrible. Another thing....at Stalingrad before the loss, the Germans were around the peak of their advancements. After the loss they still had an extremely large, effective war machine. The Allies didn't even invade Normandy yet. Africa was being mopped up. The Allies weren't even in Italy yet. So it wouldn't seem like the war was lost. It would be very easy to envision a strategic turnaround. Which is exactly what they did plan for. Given what the Germans still had after the loss of Stalingrad, no General would contemplate surrender. No general of any nation's army would.